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Playable: 136x136
Concept + Show Spoiler +My goal was to encourage outer map army movement, while still giving the option to do an early attack through the center of the map, similar to Cloud Kingdom. However, I was not looking to encourage any sort of turtling play, rather the opposite. To hold five bases, you will have to properly maintain map control and awareness, while spreading yourself out when necessary.
Tileset + Show Spoiler + Zerus tileset with Bel'Shir Grass Dark replacing the slime texture.
Aesthetic Shots Note: Aesthetics are more than likely to change as I look to make some final touches, and a more Hots doodads become available. So consider the aesthetics 98% complete.
+ Show Spoiler +
Change Log + Show Spoiler +
As always, feedback is more than welcome
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I kinda like it, I was trying to make a melee map for hots in the editor and is almost done and is pretty similar with the concept of yours. The only bad thing of this map is that there no space to fly behind main bases and like ohana you have only one air path that's "safe", the other is on top of the third.
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The third seems relatively far... no idea how the early game is gonna work... but I like the lategame mapsplit a lot.
and the tileset sucks.
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dont like the 3/9 bases. its so close to the enemy main+nat and so far away from your main.
or, if you do take that as a 3rd/4th option, you have such a small ramp for your army to go up and its orientated in the wrong direction.
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Yea not a fan of the tileset either. Those vines... not a good choice. Mixing Lava and water aswell as luch envioments is something that should be done carefully.
I don't get the reasons why the center bases are 6m1g other than the fact that a 6m1g base seems to be mandatory for ESV maps. From the looks of things you can walk over from the other side and harras the mineral with normal land units. Such conditions would qualify for a high yield base or at least a fully equiped base. There is not enough reward right now for this.
Other than that this map seems to be lacking features. There is only one set of standard WOL rocks. No collabsable ones. No high ground pillars aka shakuras where you can land tanks for wicked map control. No islands or as i mentioned high yields. The design is just ... too safe. This is a HOTS map for the tileset alone.
Trying to design for positional play is always nice but this is a beta. Blizzard is not going to pick your maps up for Beta ladder it won't happen. Tournements won't start looking for HOTS maps until at least launch which is 3 months from now. Really just let loose. Be creative with the new tools avaliable in HOTS. This includes things that have been outphased in WOL like islands.
This might as well have been a WOL map. This just doesn't seem enough,
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In terms of balance, not to sure about it since the hardest to hold bases have the least resources, and the bases overall are very spread out. As for the tile set, absolutely love it. Makes me think of a Zerg infested Aiur.
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On December 15 2012 00:49 Pseudothol wrote: In terms of balance, not to sure about it since the hardest to hold bases have the least resources, and the bases overall are very spread out. As for the tile set, absolutely love it. Makes me think of a Zerg infested Aiur.
the doodads that come with the tileset are pretty cool. but the textures themselves, i dont like too much. too distracting.
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My first impression of this map: FANTASTIC. This is what map control is. You cannot simply 1a right through the middle because you'll get destroyed having to go up that chokey ramp. You can't just waltz around it or you'll be completely surrounded by units on the high ground. You can't just gallop across the high ground all safe and sound because that will give your enemy tons of time to just shimmey on through the middle and mess your **** up.
In order to really win on this map you need to be aggressive from the get-go. Staking your claim in certain regions so as to secure great advantage later. This is the kind of map we really need.
As for the criticism, the center bases are a little iffy. Sure some high yield patches and geysers would make it super neat, but I feel as if a terran could just use a floating CC to abuse that whenever he wants (not like HY minerals weren't like that in the first place >_>). The XNTs near the 6m bases are also kinda pointless, as a unit standing there would probably be able to cover that area fine without using a watchtower.
I like the vine doodads (I think those are doodads) but not liking the textures. Either take out the water and make it less grassy, or take out the lava and make it more grassy.
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In general, I quite like this. I'm worried though that what you've done is make a CK-esque concept without the center mobility to prevent the default base trade split path scenario. If your army is, for example, positioned to defend your 5th base, you have no way to prevent army movements coming anywhere through the middle or the other side. In order to move back you have to funnel through that tiny choke at the mineral line of the center base, or go around by the tower, and either way it's too late. I know you want to encourage map control, but the speed of army movements will make it too punishing, too easy to be caught off guard. Not only that, but it encourages players to make those thoughtless risky moves because the alternative has lower payoff and the chance of catastrophe if you don't do it perfectly.
That said, many of the dynamics of SC2 at top level play involve crossing a threshold where 90% optimal is much easier than 95% or 99% optimal, even while the cost of mistakes while attempting 99% optimal is much higher than mistakes made playing 90% optimal strategies/tactics. Extending that to this map, I could imagine that eventually the best players would be able to control the game and their armies well enough to safely outmaneuver lesser players, though that would require perfect or near-perfect attention and control.
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On December 15 2012 03:16 Fetchystick wrote: As for the criticism, the center bases are a little iffy. Sure some high yield patches and geysers would make it super neat, but I feel as if a terran could just use a floating CC to abuse that whenever he wants (not like HY minerals weren't like that in the first place >_>). The XNTs near the 6m bases are also kinda pointless, as a unit standing there would probably be able to cover that area fine without using a watchtower.
I don't think that it would be that big an issue if that was High yields. This isn't exactly metalopolis. The distance between the main and the high yields are quite severe. And even on metal it was debated if the transfer could pay off. Mind you that was before the mule nerf.
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On December 15 2012 04:57 EatThePath wrote: In general, I quite like this. I'm worried though that what you've done is make a CK-esque concept without the center mobility to prevent the default base trade split path scenario. If your army is, for example, positioned to defend your 5th base, you have no way to prevent army movements coming anywhere through the middle or the other side. In order to move back you have to funnel through that tiny choke at the mineral line of the center base, or go around by the tower, and either way it's too late. I know you want to encourage map control, but the speed of army movements will make it too punishing, too easy to be caught off guard. Not only that, but it encourages players to make those thoughtless risky moves because the alternative has lower payoff and the chance of catastrophe if you don't do it perfectly.
This is a very legitimate concern that has come to my mind several times. However, I decided to test the map as is and just see how unforgiving this mechanics turns out to be. If it turns out to be problematic and the map is not playing as intended, I already have solutions in mind that would certainly fix the issue. I'm just afraid such solutions will take away from the the current emphasis on map awareness.
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Change the central half-bases so they're mineral walls across the near-sides middle. It will make ultra-lategame more dynamic.
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On December 15 2012 04:57 EatThePath wrote: In general, I quite like this. I'm worried though that what you've done is make a CK-esque concept without the center mobility to prevent the default base trade split path scenario. If your army is, for example, positioned to defend your 5th base, you have no way to prevent army movements coming anywhere through the middle or the other side. In order to move back you have to funnel through that tiny choke at the mineral line of the center base, or go around by the tower, and either way it's too late. I know you want to encourage map control, but the speed of army movements will make it too punishing, too easy to be caught off guard. Not only that, but it encourages players to make those thoughtless risky moves because the alternative has lower payoff and the chance of catastrophe if you don't do it perfectly.
My two concerns with the map are this and the somewhat hard to defend third, else the looks are pretty awesome imo and the games should be pretty dynamic.
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I spy just a weee bit of Tanzanite in those corners >:3
Looks really nice close-up though, only thing I don't like so much is where the roots pop out of the grass, it just looks... odd. In my experience so far, the slime actually works pretty well to highlight grassy areas, like Bel'Shir Brush does, so I find it strange that it's been replaced with the Dark Grass, which is probably very similar to Zerus Grass, since I can't spot much difference.
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