Hello everyone, I am SC2Samuel of Team SCA. I am an amateur caster and analyst. My first post on TL is a build order that I have not tested much and would appreciate your feedback/testing on. Keep in mind, if you actually try out this build, you'll probably have a better idea of the build than just reading about it.
Abuse the TvP metagame of marine heavy 10 minute medivac pushes and push out with a marauder heavy force w/ combat shields and shells at 7 minutes to force gateway units, bait forcefields, and cause economic damage.
Most PvT builds rely on preparing for the 10 minute push by having 1-2 collosi, storm, or chargelots. These builds usually open 3 gate -> AOE tech, and usually only barely have the sufficient research/units finished right before the Terran attacks. Fact is, maruaders with shells are amazing, able to destory any gateway unit, and as well as collosi with stim and tanking storms.
I just tried it for the first time on ladder, and the win it gave me got me promoted from gold to platinum for the first time ever. I know its not particularly useful feedback, and i executed the build pretty poorly because microing and macroing at the same time is not something i can actually do at all, but for what its worth thanks
edit for feedback:
It obviously works pretty well against a protoss going for some sort of early expand into fast templar build, which is what my opponent was doing. It still took until after i actually had stim to finish him off, but templar has always been my vulnerability because of my poor micro. The marauders help alot so anyone in lower leagues who struggles with fast templar, this build is perfect.
On the negative side i found the build to be slightly off in places. At some points i couldn't afford to make marauders, and things didn't seem to align every well, but i've only tried it a few times. I also had to halt SCV production at one point to get the combat shield (i think).
One more thing, those replays you included are not helpful, as the execution of the build was pretty bad (i know it sounds a bit rich coming from a lower level player than you). In the one i watched - the second build - you didn't have enough units to move out near 7:00.
Last edit: 2013-01-04 13:31:35
would you mind taking that elephant out of my fridge?
KawaiiRice United States. January 04 2013 13:08. Posts 2818
I really don't understand, before warp gate the T is upper P when finnished, the P can put pressure on T untill stim and medival, and you want to attack when the P is strongest? Don' t really understand the only case will be if you can catch out you opponent other way you might not succed. But i do like the fact you want to change standard play. Some player can't adapt well.
Penecks United States. January 04 2013 17:28. Posts 565
On January 04 2013 13:08 KawaiiRice wrote: once the P sees marauder, chronos out an immortal (assuming 1g fe 3g robo) and makes zealots/uses force field you are extremely behind, not to mention this build sounds horribly inefficient.
Pretty much this. Plus, bio without stim hitting that late isn't scary at all.
Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Your medivac push isn't actually delayed because if you start your factory at 7 minutes, it takes 152 + a couple more seconds to get 2 medivacs out. And Stim only takes 170 seconds (approximately the same time), so it sounds perfectly possible to have the standard timing. Except you'd be behind in upgrades. But I see all your points. I'll be making adjustments soon.
sVnteen Germany. January 04 2013 21:00. Posts 2173
well I'm afraid that any immortal completely destorys this build and if the toss scouts early marauders he is most likely going to chrono out one immortal just to be safe and without stim you are never going to be able to snipe an immortal as long as there are other protoss units around.
It seems to me that this build is pretty much only effective to punish very late robo (for example with some sort of fast storm build) but at least back when I played terran (idk about 5-6 months ago) that kind of builds were pretty rare and it's not like it's undefendable with a greedy storm build (obviously I haven't seen how it matches up just theory work here)
Do you guys think that this build would be good to fake pressure, take map control, force some chrono boosts, maybe even bait out some extra sentries/forcefields? I could adjust the build so it allows for the usual 10 minute push.
Kfcnoob United States. January 04 2013 23:12. Posts 292
This is not an anti metagame timing or anything fancy like that lol. Its just a simple tech lab focused push before both races have T3. Its sort of a cheese because force fields can prevent u from entering the front door and u can't elevator since no T3. The toss could also just beat ur army by chronoing immortal and attacking u. If toss is passive, u can probably get Vikings out before a colossus push. Basically, this is just a less potent frontal attack and is why noone does it.
Going for 3cc 2ebay might also b a risky followup if protoss decides to abuse ur situation
And Artosis sayeth "the one who kills many, but loses few, comes out ahead."
Anti-metagame timing attacks only really work if the opponent fails to react to what they're scouting and change what they're doing. Like KawaiiRice already said, this will get shut down hard by any Protoss who decides to make Immortals before you push, which they have the capacity to do after opening with any standard expand -> 3 Gate Robo build.
EU Masters Protoss playing for Team SC2Improve ~ www.sc2improve.org ~ "I'd rather play a strategy that is worse but that I feel confident in than play the better strategy not really feeling it and not being 100% behind it" - Grubby
MateShade Australia. January 04 2013 23:50. Posts 708
It's possible to line this attack up with the same 2 Medivac stim timing at 10 minutes. But that timing is going to be severely weakened. Also having so much has early on as Terran won't line up nicely after that 10 minute mark if you're going bio and don't have a fast 3rd cc. I don't really know how to explain it but it just doesn't work
KingAlphard Italy. January 05 2013 00:16. Posts 116
Sorry but this is quite a suicide timing. Terran's strong timing is when he has both stimpack and the first 2 medivacs, before that a bio army kind of sucks. It's true that the protoss can't have AOE at 7:45, but it's not needed at all. I don't even know if the protoss actually needs an immortal. Good forcefields + zealot/stalker should be enough.
As a protoss I can tell you I always get a 5-6 minute-ish robo for obs, so I don't straight die to cloaked banshees and get to confirm that you are doing the 10 minute push, Unless you are going heavy air I always get 2-3 immortals because they're just good units. A small force of immortals and stalkers with good focus fire+force field to split up half of the army will simply shut down this build hard.
When I get to grandmasters, you have my permission to die!