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[G] Kyo’s HotS PvZ Skytoss Guide

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS 1 2 All
 
 -Kyo-   United States. January 06 2013 12:47. Posts 914
Profile Blog # 
Preface

Hello and welcome to my guide on how to effectively play Skytoss in HotS! I’ve been attempting many variants of this over the past week and so far this is what I’ve come across to be the most safe, well transitioned build. I figure because I’ve been doing quite well with it on HotS ladder I’d share it with everyone, and hopefully you can see the strengths Protoss have at the moment in HotS. I also do have a unique PvP build I’ve been working on as many on HotS who know me may have seen; however, I feel that build is not solid enough to warrant a guide just yet, though I may if enough people have an interest. I included a single replay on the build in the replay pack attached at the end.

Introduction

So without further delay lets go ahead and start with the basic “goals” of the build. This build is not exclusively Skytoss. That is to say, your road to getting the ultimate Protoss air army does not include only making air units the whole game. To be safe against good Zerg timings you’ll need a few transitions before entering the realm of air in a safe manner. Similarly, massing exclusively air does have its down sides and because of this we’ll be focusing on a combination of units and upgrades that allow us to have an incredibly strong army while abusing the mobility Protoss has in other ways such as Speed Zealots and Warp Prisms to buy us time for this army. To make this a little more clear I will outline the “Phases” of a standard PvZ game with this build and what you will be looking to accomplish, this will also serve as an index if you’d like to search for a particular phase that is giving you trouble.

Phase 1: Standard 15 Nexus Build into 4 Pheonix opener

Phase 2: Transitioning into Void Ray + Zealot

Phase 3: Adding the transition into Colossus

Phase 4: Adding the transition into speed zealots + Fleet Beacon + 3 additional Stargates + 4th Base

Phase 5: Starting Tempest/Carrier production + Warp Prisms (a lot of them!)

Phase 6: Harassment, army positioning, High Templar, MORE CANNONS!

Phase 7: ?? win


The Opening Build Order

I’d like to note here that after a certain point in the game you should be adding your tech structures, upgrades, production and so forth when certain flags are set. For example: You are harassing with your phoenix and scout a hydralisk den. You know you don’t need many more void rays by this point. Therefore; work on your ground army. Because of this reactiveness in the build certain late game food references will not work very well. I will simply be giving you an idea of when you should be adding things and go more in depth with pictures in the Phase part of the text.

Build below:
+ Show Spoiler +

Phase 1

super badass pictures to go along with the build order and goal orientation above - click them twice to get full screen images! :D

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Phase 2:


+ Show Spoiler +

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Phase 3:


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Phase 4:



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Phase 5:


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Phase 6:



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Phase 7:



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Daybreak Version:


+ Show Spoiler +


Hopefully this serves as a general guideline for how to safely tech to Sky Toss in HotS. If anyone finds the guide to be too cluttered in some spots or wants to modify anything feel free to send me a PM or something. I may update this with more replays at a later date depending how much I'm able to play since I start school on Monday.

Here are some replays of how the build can pan out in different situations, and hopefully can be used as a good demonstration regardless of your league:
http://www.mediafire.com/?gsg3cj75b9m9kmp

I also included one replay of the PvP 11gate build I am working on.



If you'd like to watch me doing these builds, VoDs or anything else you can find my stream page & twitter here:

http://www.twitch.tv/kyo7763
https://twitter.com/Kyo7763


Last edit: 2013-01-08 05:31:51
That guy that uses Skytoss huehuehe - Complexity Academy - twitch.tv/kyo7763 - twitter.com/Kyo7763 - Anime is cuter than you.
Old Post

 
 TangSC   Canada. January 06 2013 13:13. Posts 1611
Profile Blog # 
lol cool guide, thanks for putting the work in Kyo
Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration.com | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC
Old Post

 
 -Kyo-   United States. January 07 2013 01:35. Posts 914
Profile Blog # 
Glad it was enjoyable. I'm going to be doing some Skytoss builds on my stream right now if anyone would like to see them live instead of via replay!
That guy that uses Skytoss huehuehe - Complexity Academy - twitch.tv/kyo7763 - twitter.com/Kyo7763 - Anime is cuter than you.
Old Post

 
 TheLunatic   January 07 2013 01:59. Posts 298
Profile # 
Now we just need apvp and apvt from you, btw love this skytoss build and I also love the asmodious sky toss transitioning to void tempest templar archon with the infamous zelot of course
Old Post

 
 Valerian   Korea (South). January 07 2013 02:13. Posts 7
Profile # 
People still go for BL/Infestor? I am a zerg player and I can't understand why people go for that compo lol
Old Post

 
 iKill   Denmark. January 07 2013 02:33. Posts 781
Profile Blog # 

On January 07 2013 02:13 Valerian wrote:
People still go for BL/Infestor? I am a zerg player and I can't understand why people go for that compo lol


Some people just don't know any better yet

Also, great guide Kyo, will definitely use this as a starting point on ladder ^^
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Old Post

 
 Arco   United States. January 07 2013 03:33. Posts 1935
Profile # 
Pretty cool guide. I'd take a look at Stardust's build from Hybrid Proleague on Ohana, though. + Show Spoiler +Basically 2 Star > 6 Voids (try to kill third, but be wary of counter) > 6 Carriers > stop Carrier production > goes up to 3 base/4 Stargate mass Voidray. Lots of Cannons. Around 2 Sentries for Guardian Shields. Also you have 2 Warpgates for warping in Zealot/Sentry to block or help defend with excess minerals Then you head to Templar Tech, and add a few Gates with excess minerals.

With good control, CANNONS, and the Mothership Core you can stop Hydra timings. If you've defend sufficiently by that point, your army is too scary to attack into, and you can pursue more bases/Templar tech/Robo for Observers.

This build was pretty sweet on WoL, but it had some obvious holes. Mothership Core Overcharge and Void buffs really help with them. This build just got 10x sweeter in HotS. Not to mention the defensive potential with mobility from Recall. Plus you have the option of Tempests to deal with any kind of Mass Spore/Spine buildups, but I typically never build them with this build.
Last edit: 2013-01-07 09:53:46
Old Post

 
 DON-ILYA   Russian Federation. January 07 2013 19:48. Posts 11
Profile # 
Nice guide, looks solid. But what are your actions against muta? In a case of non-muta play you just go with the whole army to defend your 3rd nexus. But with muta it can be something like harrasing your main and pressuring 3rd with lings.
If nature wanted us to talk more than listen she would have given us two mouths and one ear.
Old Post

 
 iKill   Denmark. January 07 2013 20:39. Posts 781
Profile Blog # 

On January 07 2013 19:48 DON-ILYA wrote:
Nice guide, looks solid. But what are your actions against muta? In a case of non-muta play you just go with the whole army to defend your 3rd nexus. But with muta it can be something like harrasing your main and pressuring 3rd with lings.


I'd imagine he uses the sentries to cap the third while defending mutas with stalkers, but I'm more interested to hear about his general response to mutas.

Kyo, do you rely on phoenixes, get storm out faster (maybe skipping colossus), or include more stalkers in your army?
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Old Post

 
 rEalGuapo   Germany. January 07 2013 20:57. Posts 761
Profile # 

On January 07 2013 20:39 iKill wrote:

Show nested quote +



I'd imagine he uses the sentries to cap the third while defending mutas with stalkers, but I'm more interested to hear about his general response to mutas.

Kyo, do you rely on phoenixes, get storm out faster (maybe skipping colossus), or include more stalkers in your army?


Played this style for a couple of days now (I think I saw a cast of whitera and tried to copy)

You already got 4 Phoenix by the time you get the first hints of Mutas, just add a fast second stargate, go double Phoenix and try to get Range. Also, I prefer 5 over 4, you can lose one and still kill off queens easily and you kill overlords faster.
Also ground upgrades are pretty important, Zerg will probably rely on Lings as ground units and dump his gas inot the mutas, you want your zealots to two-shot them always.
Last edit: 2013-01-07 21:02:26
Old Post

 
 DON-ILYA   Russian Federation. January 07 2013 21:01. Posts 11
Profile # 
Hmm... Played some games. Didn't face some straight muta plays at 9-11 minute mark, but it looks like mass blink stalkers into colossus might help. If zerg goes tech switch, phoenixes are completely useless. And it's always such a feeling (for me), that I need to end the game as fast as possible, coz muta can be very frustrating and a single mistake will cost you a game. Also it's harder to harass with prism against muta player.
If nature wanted us to talk more than listen she would have given us two mouths and one ear.
Old Post

 
 rEalGuapo   Germany. January 07 2013 21:05. Posts 761
Profile # 

On January 07 2013 21:01 DON-ILYA wrote:
Hmm... Played some games. Didn't face some straight muta plays at 9-11 minute mark, but it looks like mass blink stalkers into colossus might help. If zerg goes tech switch, phoenixes are completely useless. And it's always such a feeling (for me), that I need to end the game as fast as possible, coz muta can be very frustrating and a single mistake will cost you a game. Also it's harder to harass with prism against muta player.



With the new Mutas I see no other way than Phoenix. If you go for Cannon+Stalker Zerg will not lose Mutas and the ball will grow and grow, then you lose to a basetrade.

Double Phoenix requires you to have a few Observers to scout out any tech switches, obviously you still get a lot of Gateway units and can transition into colossi slowly. If you see him throwing down any sort of additional tech more often than not you can just kill him with the phoenix+gateway army.
Old Post

 
 Markwerf   Netherlands. January 08 2013 00:46. Posts 2830
Profile # 
I wonder why you open with phoenix instead of oracles.
With phoenix you need to wait for 3-4 before you can do some pressure, with oracles your first one can already kill drones really well. I like just opening with 1 or 2 oracles and then going some voids unless I see spire in which case I go phoenix.
With the phoenix range upgrade and the MsC doing phoenix in reaction to spire is enough imo.
Oracle + some voids is much more useful for setting up your third because an oracle is actually pretty good against ling pressure. Oracle + voids is also much easier to micro in those battles as you only need to flick em on, phoenixes kind of suck agianst roach/ling pressure because they take so much care.
Old Post

 
 -Kyo-   United States. January 08 2013 01:07. Posts 914
Profile Blog # 

On January 08 2013 00:46 Markwerf wrote:
I wonder why you open with phoenix instead of oracles.
With phoenix you need to wait for 3-4 before you can do some pressure, with oracles your first one can already kill drones really well. I like just opening with 1 or 2 oracles and then going some voids unless I see spire in which case I go phoenix.
With the phoenix range upgrade and the MsC doing phoenix in reaction to spire is enough imo.
Oracle + some voids is much more useful for setting up your third because an oracle is actually pretty good against ling pressure. Oracle + voids is also much easier to micro in those battles as you only need to flick em on, phoenixes kind of suck agianst roach/ling pressure because they take so much care.


Phoenix kill air and ground unlike oracles. In that same regard, if you go oracles and you scout a spire you then have to build additional units that with this build you otherwise already have. To be honest, I hate the oracle. It's just way too fragile in the early game and if the zerg has a grasp on the situation at hand they can largely negate the damage an oracle can inflict after they are revealed - that is to say, even if you're saving your oracles over time you're not doing the damage that you're almost assured with the phoenix (queen+overlords->time factor->macro). Phoenix can be incredibly useful up until late game at which point I showed they can be used for scouting/vision check to hit timings before the zerg gets a good composition/upgrades. Late game I'd advise 2 oracles with your large air army for time warp. Until then however, I don't see the point to get a unit that is less viable than the phoenix and the VR combo which can also deny incredibly fast 4th expos if they skip on army. I guess some timings may come up in the future with oracle/gateway armies, but that's not the point of this guide :D
Last edit: 2013-01-08 01:09:49
That guy that uses Skytoss huehuehe - Complexity Academy - twitch.tv/kyo7763 - twitter.com/Kyo7763 - Anime is cuter than you.
Old Post

 
 iKill   Denmark. January 08 2013 01:24. Posts 781
Profile Blog # 

On January 08 2013 01:07 -Kyo- wrote:

Show nested quote +



Phoenix kill air and ground unlike oracles. In that same regard, if you go oracles and you scout a spire you then have to build additional units that with this build you otherwise already have. To be honest, I hate the oracle. It's just way too fragile in the early game and if the zerg has a grasp on the situation at hand they can largely negate the damage an oracle can inflict after they are revealed - that is to say, even if you're saving your oracles over time you're not doing the damage that you're almost assured with the phoenix (queen+overlords->time factor->macro). Phoenix can be incredibly useful up until late game at which point I showed they can be used for scouting/vision check to hit timings before the zerg gets a good composition/upgrades. Late game I'd advise 2 oracles with your large air army for time warp. Until then however, I don't see the point to get a unit that is less viable than the phoenix and the VR combo which can also deny incredibly fast 4th expos if they skip on army. I guess some timings may come up in the future with oracle/gateway armies, but that's not the point of this guide :D


Considering TW doesn't hit air, is that even worth it (considering a large amount of his supply will likely be corruptors)?
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Old Post

  ThePlayer33   Australia. January 08 2013 01:37. Posts 2377Profile # 
that last pic is slightly disturbing
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
Old Post

 
 rEalGuapo   Germany. January 08 2013 01:55. Posts 761
Profile # 
So I just played against Broodlord Infestor Queen.

Turns out that Carrier Void Ray Colossus Zealot loses to queen broodlord....

I was maxed and he didn't even use fungal -.-
Old Post

 
 Markwerf   Netherlands. January 08 2013 02:14. Posts 2830
Profile # 

On January 08 2013 01:07 -Kyo- wrote:

Show nested quote +



Phoenix kill air and ground unlike oracles. In that same regard, if you go oracles and you scout a spire you then have to build additional units that with this build you otherwise already have. To be honest, I hate the oracle. It's just way too fragile in the early game and if the zerg has a grasp on the situation at hand they can largely negate the damage an oracle can inflict after they are revealed - that is to say, even if you're saving your oracles over time you're not doing the damage that you're almost assured with the phoenix (queen+overlords->time factor->macro). Phoenix can be incredibly useful up until late game at which point I showed they can be used for scouting/vision check to hit timings before the zerg gets a good composition/upgrades. Late game I'd advise 2 oracles with your large air army for time warp. Until then however, I don't see the point to get a unit that is less viable than the phoenix and the VR combo which can also deny incredibly fast 4th expos if they skip on army. I guess some timings may come up in the future with oracle/gateway armies, but that's not the point of this guide :D


Oracle + voidray combo can kill a queen just as easily as 4 phoenixes imo and an oracle can do lots of damage against a mineral line that isn't properly protected. I feel an oracle is slightly worse in pressure than a couple phoenix but the fact it builds so much faster makes it better as a first unit to go for imo. An oracle and voidray take 110 seconds to make, 4 phoenix take 140 seconds, for pressuring i vastly prefer the first two. That voidray can do the overlord hunting or join in with your oracle. In either case I don't expect to do much damage with the stargate units but scout a little, force some spores and kill some overlords. The oracle just makes it much easier to get a third as it's actually quite good at stopping lings from killing it whereas phoenixes do practically nothing there. Oracles are also just better against hydra pressure, with phoenixes you need a critical mass to lift and kill while oracles on themselves are fairly cost efficient against hydra's.

All in all I think phoenixes are only better for hunting overlords and killing/preventing muta's. The first can be done with voids too, the latter is of minimal use as you are in good shape with stargate against muta anyway as long as you don't get surprised.
Old Post

 
 iKill   Denmark. January 08 2013 02:42. Posts 781
Profile Blog # 

On January 08 2013 01:55 rEalGuapo wrote:
So I just played against Broodlord Infestor Queen.

Turns out that Carrier Void Ray Colossus Zealot loses to queen broodlord....

I was maxed and he didn't even use fungal -.-


Did you use storm?
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Old Post

  TheUnSeenOne   United States. January 08 2013 02:46. Posts 24Profile # 
Now would Corruptor/ Roach/ Infestor counter this well?
Old Post

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