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| LighT. Canada. January 07 2013 09:14. Posts 2846 | Profile # |
Had a very interesting, or rather heated debate on where Flash ranks amongst as a player in Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty at the moment.
Is he a Code S Player? If so, high, medium or lower tier?
Or is he a Code A Player?
People probably now familiarized with some of the Kespa aces:
SKT T1: Fantasy/Rain
Samsung Khan Roro
CJ: herO
STX Soul: Bogus
Woongjin: Soulkey
Team 8: Baby
Is he on par with players of this calibre of the best that Kespa has to offer or is he a tier below?
As a player:
Strengths:
- macro is arguably one of the best in SC2; outmacroings toss and zergs.
- micro is also top notch as he has carried over his mechanics from Starcraft:Brood war
- patience: knows when you engage, when not to engage, and he'll usually make the opponent uncomfortable during the fight
- mental strength: a rock; doesnt get phase even at the highest levels due to constant exposure to Finals apperances
- Decent to very good at: TvZ, TvP
- Mind games
- Efficient use of apm: Constant scouting, minimum risk engagements
Weaknesses:
- TvT (In the Proleagues he has lost to: Bogus, Fantasy) for a 9-3 record
- greediness (usually settles for CC first), exposed to early harass and timings
- game sense isnt up to maphack-esque sense he had in SC: BW
- strategies; not fully exposed to all the different playstyles due to fully adjusting to SC2 5-6 months ago.
His Accomplishments: Recent accomplishments in order
- WCS (Knocked out preliminaries vs MVP Sniper 2-1)
- Code A GSL (Beat Sirius, Seed, Losses to Ryung, Supernova in Up/Down Matches)
- Ro8 OSL (Beat MC, San, BeSt bo1 match-ups, Loses to Last 3-2)
- MLG vs Proleague (40-8, 4th best of the group)
- MLG vs Proleague playoffs (Beat effort 4-3, Loses to soO 4-3)
- MLG Dallas (beat grubby, naniwa, theStC, hwangsin, Loses to Life 4-2)
- MVP Invitational (Beat DRG 3-1, Loses to Rain 3-1)
- SPL Proleague (9-3) (Beat: Zenio, Ryul2, hOpe, herO, Taeja, JYP, HerO, Revival, Bbyong, Losses to Bogus, Fantasy, ZerO)
- Code A GSL (Loss to baby, Beat: Vampire, Yoda, Yonghwa Losses to Jaedong,MC)
Looking at his statistics, although he is not the top tier of the players at the moment;
he seems to be a middle-ground, maybe slightly below Code S Player; and on the same tier as the kespa aces; where strategies are still lacking as well as an unrefined TvT as he's had in SC:BW.
From an objective perspective: Is he overhyped/overrated?
Is he really just an average Code A calibre player, overhyped by previous accomplishments?
Is he a projected player to become top-tier amongst the current SC2 crop of players?
I'm extremely curious on what user on Teamliquid thinks and their reasons for their thought.
Hope to hear your two cents. |
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| The_Templar United States. January 07 2013 09:19. Posts 4017 | Profile Blog # |
| Wait a few more months, I believe Flash is still improving faster than everyone else. |
| | I am the 4% http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17208214 ||| Improvement of posts underway. |  |
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| BeyondCtrL Sweden. January 07 2013 09:19. Posts 557 | Profile # |
I think he is Code S level, his performance in the SPL yesterday just cemented his position as a Code S level player, in my mind at least.
EDIT: Want to chime in with the_Templar and add that his rate of improvement is very impressive. He will eventually become the MVP and, imo, will eventually be more dominant than that.Last edit: 2013-01-07 09:21:09 |
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| mrRoflpwn United States. January 07 2013 09:19. Posts 2394 | Profile Blog # |
| I would rank him as high Code A~ low Code S right now because of the the fact that he has failed to make it to Code S twice now. He is definitely very good as we see in proleague but when compared with the Code S talent he is not at their level. |
| | MC for President- Huk for VP! |  |
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| Adonminus Israel. January 07 2013 09:20. Posts 483 | Profile # |
| It's really hard to tell. Flash is constantly training and improving, each time I see him play he plays better and better. I think he's already passing the Code A level, and probably in some months he could get to at least mid tier code S. |
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| Emzeeshady Canada. January 07 2013 09:20. Posts 2707 | Profile Blog # |
| I think it is pretty obvious he is overhyped because of his BW background plus his good performances on weird Kespa. He is obviously very talented though and he may be ready for code S in a month or so. |
| | Number 1 Flash anti fan! |  |
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| Pufftrees January 07 2013 09:21. Posts 2303 | Profile # |
He's S class still in SC2 imo... not many people could all kill that line up EG through at him. Kespa players seem almost disinterested in Code S... not to take anything away from people who beat him but I don't get the feeling the Kespa players hold Gom in high esteem. He might not have the best record so far but when people play Flash.. they know they are playing FLASH. They bring everything they can and probably have put more time into thinking how to do this than others.
If I had to pick 5-10 of the best players in Sc2 I would still choose Flash, so he's S class to me. He's still growing which makes it even better 
Personally I see this thread turning into a Kespa player vs MLG flamewar, but to answer your Question.. no hes not overhyped ! |
| | Chance favors the prepared mind. |  |
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| covote United States. January 07 2013 09:21. Posts 86 | Profile Blog # |
| I would say right now he isn't code s material, but i think by the end of the year he will be top tier code S. |
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| JOJOsc2news January 07 2013 09:21. Posts 2999 | Profile Blog # |
Is he a Code S Player? If so, high, medium or lower tier?
Not right now apparently.
+ Show Spoiler +Which isn't bad in my opinion. I think he needs a bit more time. I am sure he will make it into the next Code S or the one after that or the one after that with the chance to actually take the victory. Why does he have to be top tier right from the beginning? I think there is a gap between expectations (from the glorious past) and what can be achieved in this amount of time (if ever). Last edit: 2013-01-07 09:22:13 |
| | ✉ Tweets @sc2channel ⌦ Blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/JOJO ⌫ "Arbiterssss... build more arbiterssss." Click 'Profile' for awesome shiro art! |  |
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 Zealously Sweden. January 07 2013 09:22. Posts 4035 | Profile Blog # |
I think right now, at this moment, Flash is a borderline Code S player with a (slight) weakness to all-ins. His macro is extremely solid, I'd even say top-notch, but his decision making is still lacking somewhat - he semi-frequently makes mistakes that cost him games. If he could play every game on his own terms, he would have made it into Code S this season without trouble. When builds that are strong against his greedy openers are brought out, however, he still does not have the defensive capabilities to hold such attacks of like he could in Brood War.
That said, Flash's rate of improval is awe-inspiring, as is his work ethic. He started off slowly in SC2, but I believe (having watched all of his proleague games as well as his GSL/MLG ones) that he has found his footing and will improve more quickly over the next few months. Half a year from now, I think he will be top material. Today he isn't. |
| | #1 ST_Life fan | SKT T1_Parting | Naniwa | MKP | EGTL: Encounter God, Total Loss |  |
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| babylon January 07 2013 09:23. Posts 6229 | Profile Blog # |
| High Code A, low Code S. He's good though and is improving very fast. If he doesn't make Code S next season, I'd consider that a disappointment. |
| | [insert StarTale icon here] |  |
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| Kaitokid Germany. January 07 2013 09:24. Posts 1322 | Profile Blog # |
he could be easily code s... code s level is not just the players who are in code s at this very moment.
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| Zealously Sweden. January 07 2013 09:25. Posts 4035 | Profile Blog # |
On January 07 2013 09:24 Kaitokid wrote:
he could be easily code s... code s level is not just the players who are in code s at this very moment.
But are all players in Code S actually Code S material, in your opinion? |
| | #1 ST_Life fan | SKT T1_Parting | Naniwa | MKP | EGTL: Encounter God, Total Loss | |
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 Seeker  Korea (South). January 07 2013 09:25. Posts 17273 | Profile Blog # |
Flash is good. How good is he? Only time will tell. As of right now, all we have to go on is the recent results he's shown us. He all killed EG-TL. He has been doing really well in SPL as KT's ace. He has been doing well in MLGs as well. However, he has failed to get in to Code S twice now. (as previously mentioned above) So what am I saying exactly? Flash is good. I definitely see him as a Code A caliber player. I would even say he could be low Code S. But he's NOT Code S so I can't say that he is there yet.
Just be patient. Flash's skills will speak for himself eventually. |
| | FXO.NA SC2 Manager / FXO Translator |  |
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| PhoenixDark United States. January 07 2013 09:26. Posts 283 | Profile # |
| He does very well in Proleague and ok in GOM tournaments |
| | http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435469 |
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| docvoc United States. January 07 2013 09:26. Posts 3447 | Profile Blog # |
On January 07 2013 09:21 JOJOsc2news wrote:Is he a Code S Player? If so, high, medium or lower tier?Not right now apparently. + Show Spoiler +Which isn't bad in my opinion. I think he needs a bit more time. I am sure he will make it into the next Code S or the one after that or the one after that with the chance to actually take the victory. Why does he have to be top tier right from the beginning? I think there is a gap between expectations (from the glorious past) and what can be achieved in this amount of time (if ever).
Pretty much this. He isn't code S level yet at all. He beat Taeja at TvT yesterday and the rest of TL, but that isn't an accruate description of his skill right now. Sniper demolished him, the series was 2:1, but it wasn't as close as it seemed. He will be with time, but none of the guys in the KeSPA league, other than maybe Rain but we've seen him fall quite a bit from his hype, are code S championship level. There are some that are code S, but flash is not there yet, his games yesterday showed a lot of strategic issues that he didn't have in BW, he isn't fleshed out as a player. When his play becomes fleshed out, then we will have ourselves code S caliber player material. |
| | User was warned for too many mimes. | |
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| PhoenixVoid Canada. January 07 2013 09:26. Posts 8604 | Profile Blog # |
| I would say Flash is at least a Ro32 Code S player, with a TvZ/TvP nearing Ro16. Beyond his weak TvT (which is around Code A), he can be a consistent Code S player with maybe a few dips into high Code A, but I don't see Flash making it to Ro8, let alone a finals in GSL yet. But give him time, I expect him to show Ro8 level play by March-April. |
| | Remember, IMMvp, not IMMVP I Lysander |
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| insanet Peru. January 07 2013 09:27. Posts 365 | Profile # |
| Now that Bisu sucks, Flash fans have taken the lead as the most annoying fans of all. |
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| Thieving Magpie United States. January 07 2013 09:27. Posts 1332 | Profile # |
Reminds me of a consistent bomber; but doesn't get cocky. It took a year of GSL for MVP to finally do well, and last night he lost to (supposedly) IM's best player. With IM holding more GSLs than any other team, that is not something to be taken lightly.
I'd say he is at Ryung/Taeja levels right now. Strong and consistent performances that get better with time, but just always one game short of going all the way. |
| | Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks? |  |
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 dbg Colombia. January 07 2013 09:28. Posts 264 | Profile # |
| hes the best terran player in the world |
| | every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around |
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