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 GrandInquisitor  New York City. March 31 2007 14:58. Posts 7913 | Profile Blog # |
| it's weird cause this power rankings is going to have nothing at all almost to go off of except superfight... |
| | What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero? |
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 Mynock March 31 2007 15:05. Posts 4491 | Profile # |
On March 31 2007 14:58 GrandInquisitor wrote:
it's weird cause this power rankings is going to have nothing at all almost to go off of except superfight...
Aaaaand... the Shinhan Masters, aaaand the Kespa tourney -_-
-Mynock |
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| TheGreatOne United States. March 31 2007 15:14. Posts 323 | Profile # |
On March 31 2007 14:46 Mynock wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 31 2007 13:59 TheGreatOne wrote:
I still dont see how so many of you thought just because nada 3-1'ed savior on favored tvz maps that he deserved to be over bisu. When bisu 3-0'ED savior on pretty balanced maps. And 3-0'ED Nal_ra. The bisu vs casy game is pretty irrevelant id say. Clearly if he can beat nada that game was just a fluke. Id say Bisu #1 next month and its a throwup between nada and savior for #2 probably savior though.
Edit: basically hot bid and the rdgrshfi w.e guy knows what they're talking about. Mynock is clearly a biased nada fan. If you put nada and savior up on a really balanced map like luna or rush hour 3 or something of that sort and they played 100 games savior would probably win 75 or more.
Should I put it in my signature that I'm a NaDa fan? Or maybe I shouldn't, people always seem so genuinely happy when they make that discovery, it's like they finally figured me out. I won't rob you of your pleasure then. I was somewhat disappointed in NaDa's decisions in those games, but still, what I wanted to see happened, and it happened in such a great form: NaDa vs Bisu was an absolute classic. However I don't understand what you're basing your opinions on? The 2 games we saw them play vs random opponents? They sure were indicative, but not so much. SaviOr can do a lot better than that, especially if he prepares vs a specific opponent on specific maps. I think this randomness doesn't bother NaDa so much, but maybe I'm wrong. But please, you ask how it was possible for some ppl to think NaDa should be tied with sAviOr for 1st place? Well have you seen the game Bisu vs NaDa? If you have I'm sure you'd agree that that game was CLOSE. And both players showed some EXTREME skills. So that's why. If 1 hilariously close and insanely interesting game is enough for you to judge... then your judgment is shallow. Besides, Bisu essentially won the game because of NaDa's mistake, unlike in his game vs sAviOr, where he won because he played his cards very very well. As for sAviOr, I'm sure we'll see him recuperated soon. People nowadays play him specifically in a style that beats him, and that was to be expected after he pulled the same trick so many times. He'll do fine, it's not like the OSL win is going to kill him.
Show nested quote +If you put nada and savior up on a really balanced map like luna or rush hour 3 or something of that sort and they played 100 games savior would probably win 75 or more.
And you base that on... absolutely nothing? Yeah, let's put them on Luna, that will show their real skills. What the hell are you talking about... Oh, and one final thing to note:
Show nested quote +Edit: basically hot bid and the rdgrshfi w.e guy knows what they're talking about. Mynock is clearly a biased nada fan.
Show nested quote +On March 23 2007 20:50 Mynock wrote:
Anyway, I have no idea about balance so far (I don't trust anybody's word if they say they do, either), so I'm really expecting some mixed and exciting results on 31st.
Ooops? GG no re with reps, sry. -Mynock
I believe that map to be pretty hard for toss vs terran so id say it showed how much more skilled bisu was than nada that he won on it.
I'm basing my opinions off the replays of nada and savior. Theres like 3 or 4 of them savior wins every game pretty distinguishly. One on r-point a pretty favored tvz map and savior beat him. One on luna and rov both pretty big rapes. The point is any normal map where zerg isnt forced to majorly alter their play savior will dominate most terrans. I assumed you had seen them.
Also it was just utterly annoying me you thinking nada deserved #2 over bisu when all he had done was the same as bisu(beating savior and the best pvp'er and tvt'er of each race)but with less as good as results and on easier maps.
It might just be me but Id rather judge a players skill on a map like luna than 815..Last edit: 2007-03-31 15:23:59 |
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| Mynock March 31 2007 15:34. Posts 4491 | Profile # |
On March 31 2007 15:14 TheGreatOne wrote:
I believe that map to be pretty hard for toss vs terran so id say it showed how much more skilled bisu was than nada that he won on it.
I'm basing my opinions off the replays of nada and savior. Theres like 3 or 4 of them savior wins every game pretty distinguishly. One on r-point a pretty favored tvz map and savior beat him. One on luna and rov both pretty big rapes. The point is any normal map where zerg isnt forced to majorly alter their play savior will dominate most terrans. I assumed you had seen them.
Also it was just utterly annoying me you thinking nada deserved #2 over bisu when all he had done was the same as bisu(beating savior and the best pvp'er and tvt'er of each race)but with less as good as results and on easier maps.
So you're basing your opinions on games that happened almost half a year ago? If those are the replays that you're talking about, because that's when I saw them. Not a very good way of making predictions if you ask me - friendly matches from half a year ago...
And you're saying Monty Hall is favoring Terran in TvP. Again, you're basing your whole ranking on the basis of your own private opinions with no other basis whatsoever. That's pretty lackluster. Should I conclude now, that sAviOr sux major ass because he didn't beat a slumping oov on a map that in my opinion is heavily Z>>T and hence oov is a better player? Not really, because that would be a pretty stupid thing to do.
sAviOr is a great player, but acting like he's impossible to beat is pretty reckless. Acting like he's in a slump because of these games is equally reckless. Acknowledging that we do not have even nearly enough info on how these maps fare with particular matchups/races/players and hence agree that the mixed nature and unpredictability of the results is quite frankly the only prediction that was to be made, is in my opinion the right thing to do and that's exactly what I'm doing here.
That said, Bisu looks very very hot about now, so even tho I think the top3 is pretty much bunched up right now, I will only be disappointed if I see sAviOr on #1 still, and any of the Triumvirate members (NaDa, Bisu, sAviOr) out of the top3. Any other configuration is not worth any of my time arguing about anymore, as I think I overdid on that already.
As per minute: #1 - Bisu, #2 - NaDa, #3 - sAviOr. Regardless of it's uncharted maps, since there's not much to go off from this month, the SuperFight 5 should play a major role in the decision making.
PS.:
It might just be me but Id rather judge a players skill on a map like luna than 815..
Or it might have just been you who missed the part of this thread where we discussed that the maps didn't play a role AT ALL in Shinhan Masters, especially the one on 815, where NaDa didn't even try to utilise any of it's advantages and instead killed sAviOr with a bunker rush. Please stop with the argument of imba maps for SH. It's getting very old now.
-MynockLast edit: 2007-03-31 16:40:14 |
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| Mynock March 31 2007 15:47. Posts 4491 | Profile # |
Oh I wanted to add, I'm very happy Protoss won this SF. Maybe, just maybe, some of the damn toss whining will stop. Also maybe, just maybe, we'll see more of my favourite TvP in the future. ^^;
So now, Toss wins MSL, Zerg wins OSL, Terran wins ShinHan Masters, Toss wins SuperFight 5. Looks like P is getting an advantage here, maybe we should start whining about imbalance now, to show them how fucking annoying it can be :D
But, they'll get crushed in the upcoming major leagues anyway, so no biggie...
-Mynock |
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| Ketama)Djin( Germany. March 31 2007 16:15. Posts 2550 | Profile # | |
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| MaGic~PhiL Germany. March 31 2007 17:22. Posts 6739 | Profile Blog # |
Savior NaDa and BiSu at 1#
sounds weird but is actually the truth..
Savior is slumping a bit but he did do soooo well before..
NaDa is playing solid as hell but lost in this racesuperfight stuff.. but did do so good all the time before
Bisu is just godly lately.. but just lately.. so.. no way to put him above savior or nada..
so imho : 1#NaDa,Savior,Bisu
2#Iris 3# ect.. D ; |
| | hatred outlives the hateful |
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| tfeign United States. April 01 2007 02:18. Posts 2976 | Profile # |
On March 23 2007 09:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 23 2007 03:16 Mynock wrote:
On March 22 2007 22:21 Hot_Bid wrote:
explain why its more than superfight?
superfight 3 was OSL winner vs MSL winner
shinhan masters was 3 OSL winners and a qualifier
i don't see how one is "way more" prestigious than the other
Oh, not all the superfights. But you know, 1 bo5 for NaDa vs sAviOr in 1 SuperFight, vs 3bo5s, plus a tourney to select 1 of the players, plus the prize is bigger, plus the golden ring you get for your win... Yeah, it's a lot more. But really, you just have to look at how much more talked about this tourney is than any of the previous SuperFights. Now the next SuperFight also looks like a huge thing, but prestige is determined not just by measures of size. It just so happens that OGN is viewed by more people, hence their tournaments are hyped up more and have more interest from the community. Also, whoever started comparing the Masters to the SuperFIght? I was talking about fighting in the finals of the Masters vs fighting for 3rd place in Shinhan 03, that's all. I never mentioned the SuperFights. Don't drift away from the point. If anything, Hot_Bid, you should ask sundance why he thinks these special tourneys are not prestigious "in his book". -Mynock
mynock, i am allowed to address other people in the thread, i'm not only obsessed with you, so please keep that in mind before you start saying stuff like "i never mentioned the superfights!!" every post of mine is not directed towards you ok? someone else compared it. nobody is denying that shinhan masters is a prestigious tournament that the players wanted to win. all i am saying is that OSL and MSL are on one level, and the superfights and shinhan masters on the next. the SM aren't "much more" prestigious than the superfights as they are both second tier invite only one time (in this case one qualifier and one final) tournaments. they do not compare to the starleagues.
Saying that MSL/OSL is at a level beyond Shinhan Masters is like saying MBC Survivor is at a level beyond MSL. What a joke.
SM is not a second tier invite only. It is a top-tier qualification league.
In order to just qualify to OSL, you have to win through ODT, therefore OSL is a level beyond ODT
In order to just qualiy for SM, you have to win through OSL, therefore SM is a level beyond OSL
To win SM is HARDER than to win OSL.
What's the big deal with invite tournaments? Superfight means just as much as MSL, OSL, Proleague, or anything else. By the way Superfight 5 isn't an invite tournament. It's a vote-in tournament. Players aren't voted because of random luck. Players are voted to play because they're truly who the Korean fans as well as professionals think are the cream of the crop in their certain races.
Really, it's not about the "prestige" of the tournament, it's about the quality of players. I don't see the difference between Savior 3-1 Nada in Supefight or Savior 3-1 Nada in OSL. It's the same exact match, the same exact players. Maps aside, if Savior 3-1 Nada is OSL, and Nada 3-1 Savior back in SM, then they're pretty much equal. Saying Savior > Nada because he beat him in OSL, a more prestigious tournament, while Nada beat Savior in SM, a less prestigious tournament, is just bullshit. Maps may have played a role, and you can make an argument based on that (but even this argument has been shot down pretty well), but making an argument based on the prestige of the tournaments is nonsense. Not to mention, I can't see how OSL > SM.
Child manages to get to the starleague, while Jaedong hasn't. How come Child didn't get to play in Superfight 5 while Jaedong did? There's a reason why Jaedong is selected to play in Superfight while Child has to sit out, and that's because Jaedong is a better player than Child. If the Korean fans and professionals think the same way as you do, then Child would get more support to play in Superfight 5 than Jaedong, because Child has manged to accomplished more in more prestigious leagues than Jaedong has. The argument that winning in more prestigious leagues = better player is completely flawed. The fact is, just because a player wins on a more prestigious league (which prestigious being subjective), it doesn't mean he's a better player. For this very same reason, Jaedong is viewed in the eye of the public as a better player than someone else like Child.Last edit: 2007-04-01 02:56:29 |
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| SuperJongMan Jamaica. April 01 2007 11:54. Posts 11428 | Profile Blog # |
That argument is just dumb man.
SM is an invite. OSL is a qualified tourney.
JD hasn't made the OSL cuz it's THAT hard.
A player of JD's caliber hasn't made OSL shows why to win the whole thing is harder.
Simple enough.
SM was an all-star invite using champions and the #1 non champion player but the fact that it's an invite doesn't change. |
| | POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~ |  |
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 LosingID8 Harlem. April 01 2007 14:10. Posts 10379 | Profile Blog # |
On April 01 2007 11:54 SuperJongMan wrote:
That argument is just dumb man.
SM is an invite. OSL is a qualified tourney.
JD hasn't made the OSL cuz it's THAT hard.
A player of JD's caliber hasn't made OSL shows why to win the whole thing is harder.
Simple enough.
SM was an all-star invite using champions and the #1 non champion player but the fact that it's an invite doesn't change.
i view it more as by winning OSL, they qualified for the masters tourney, rather than being merely "invited" |
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