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| zer0das United States. June 26 2007 11:16. Posts 3874 | Profile Blog # |
| I was wondering what GoRush did to even remotely consider #1 consideration. After checking up on MSL, I've concluded: nothing. He still has to get through Bisu, and if (big if) he manages that, he has to face Firebathero or (likely) Stork. Out of all the remaining players, I'd say the chance of him winning it is by far the lowest. His victories haven't been against the best of the competition either... if going off of impressive performance, FBH certainly gets the nod before him, and I wouldn't even consider putting FBH ahead of Bisu unless Bisu bombs hard and soon (although perhaps ahead of Stork, Savior, and Hwasin at this point..). |
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 Plexa Administrator June 26 2007 17:20. | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2007 11:15 Jathin wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2007 02:47 Plexa wrote:
GoRush certainly has made a strong case for himself this past month;
i would be surprised if he is not in the top 3 let alone 5...
Personally, i think savior needs to drop out of top 3; given he loses to iris.. probably settle about 5-10ish.
Bisu is pretty much guaranteed number 1, if not.. two (to gorush); lets face it Flash is just unstoppable tvp; hence it unfair to drop bisu out given the crap maps
Flash needs to be up there as well, as well as FBH (3-2 vs savior has gotta get you somewhere on this list)
You're going to be terribly disappointed. GoRush won't even be a consideration for #1. It's hard to argue that he'll even be top 4-5 when you have Bisu/Savior/Stork/Hwasin still competing. True, Savior lost to FBH. But that doesn't mean he played poorly. A very well-played loss is worth more than a poorly played victory. Mirror matches also don't mean much (TvT is the most skill-based mirror mu).
1:0 Shine
1:0 Savior
2:0 Sea
0:1 Nada
3:0 July
0:1 Darkelf
ok, not too great; but the way each game is being played has to be taken into consideration... 1 may be alittle tooo high atm.. but if he stomps bisu then  ! and if he doesnt... well its bisu ffs!
About savior; if he loses to iris as well, then he should drop from 2 imo.. i think he should drop anyway (to atmost 3) because although he played well vs FBH, he still lost, and played like crap against iris.. hopefully we see an improvementLast edit: 2007-06-26 17:21:35 |
| | ~ Spirit will set you free ~ |  |
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| zer0das United States. June 26 2007 21:07. Posts 3874 | Profile Blog # |
Let's see...
Nada has been doing terrible, so it might as well be a nobody. Shine and Darkelf, okay, but not impressive. Sea, a bit better. Savior was playing as terran, and while he didn't look like a complete slouch, that has to be taken into account. That leaves the sweep of July as the only set of games where he was facing top caliber competition (July certainly had been playing well).
I've watched nearly all those games, and unless he pulled something crazy off against Sea, none of them really made me go "wow." I was surprised he swept July, but July didn't look like he had been looking in at least one of those games (memory is a bit foggy).
Compare to this to Firebathero who has trashed pretty much every Terran and Savior (in a best of 5 at that). Even if GoRush stomped Bisu, unless Firebathero nosedives in his next MSL matchup in spectacular fashion, I'd almost be inclined to rate FBH ahead of GoRush anyways. I have the feeling FBH has a legit shot at winning MSL (even if he hasn't really played any good Protoss). GoRush? Eh... not so much.Last edit: 2007-06-26 21:09:24 |
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| Plexa Administrator June 26 2007 22:38. | Profile Blog # |
On June 26 2007 21:07 zer0das wrote:
Let's see...
Nada has been doing terrible, so it might as well be a nobody. Shine and Darkelf, okay, but not impressive. Sea, a bit better. Savior was playing as terran, and while he didn't look like a complete slouch, that has to be taken into account. That leaves the sweep of July as the only set of games where he was facing top caliber competition (July certainly had been playing well).
I've watched nearly all those games, and unless he pulled something crazy off against Sea, none of them really made me go "wow." I was surprised he swept July, but July didn't look like he had been looking in at least one of those games (memory is a bit foggy).
Compare to this to Firebathero who has trashed pretty much every Terran and Savior (in a best of 5 at that). Even if GoRush stomped Bisu, unless Firebathero nosedives in his next MSL matchup in spectacular fashion, I'd almost be inclined to rate FBH ahead of GoRush anyways. I have the feeling FBH has a legit shot at winning MSL (even if he hasn't really played any good Protoss). GoRush? Eh... not so much.
Ok fair call...
FBH probably does deserve it more; he is looking very very good.. but that being said; i dont think he can take stork imo But then again, this is Power Rank not KeSPA, so if you're playing well; and look in good shape you can still get on this list |
| | ~ Spirit will set you free ~ | |
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| boghat United States. June 27 2007 05:46. Posts 2109 | Profile # |
| I agree that FBH should be ahead of GoRush on the next PR. I thought FBH should have had a low spot last PR so obviously he should have a higher one now. GoRush should have a spot too but on the bottom 5. There's no reason he should be higher than that. Even if Savior loses to Iris he should still be in the top 5 though; I hope for that. |
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| hhkx Canada. June 27 2007 18:36. Posts 757 | Profile # |
| damn, i hope savior doesn't drop too much on the next PR.. |
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| InRaged June 28 2007 00:58. Posts 1047 | Profile # |
On June 27 2007 18:36 hhkx wrote:
damn, i hope savior doesn't drop too much on the next PR..
Yeah. And who should be placed over him?
The first 3 places won't change at least till the next PR. The closest player to the 1-2 places is Stork and to be worth of them he should win one of the two starleagues. And that won't happen in this month |
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| knyttym United States. June 28 2007 18:46. Posts 5667 | Profile Blog # |
Thoughts on next month.
Bisu and sAviOr obviously will stay near top if not at the top.
Stork played well in wildcard and crushed 910 so he is staying up there as well.
Oov, rA, Sea and July are going to drop off.
rA and Sea have a strong proleague record but are not in either league.
rA has the best chance of staying in but doesn' have a high chance.
predictions
Bisu
sAviOr
Stork
Gorush
Reach
Firebathero
Hwasin
By.Flash
GGPlay
Iris |
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| SuperJongMan Jamaica. June 29 2007 03:22. Posts 11428 | Profile Blog # |
I think Stork should be #1 but that's me.
EDIT - I mean... come on!!!
What's Bisu done better than Stork this month? Maybe not lose to a series vs Savior..
But Stork lost that series, then tore a new asshole to everyone in WildCards, came back, raped 910, and now sits strong for the MSL.
Stork also went through KTF Protoss Line up Reach/Ra. That is pretty impressive considering they are both good PvP'ers, especially Ra.
In OSL, he rapes, period. End. Only GGPlay can stop him now.
PL - HELLO!?!!?!
Case dismissed.
O, and Thank YOUUUUUUUU OVERSKY!!!!Last edit: 2007-06-29 04:28:03 |
| | POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~ | |
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| Organ Russian Federation. June 29 2007 05:18. Posts 987 | Profile # |
| Agreed that Stork must be #1 now and Bisu #2. But #3 is a tough question I think. Hwasin if he'll kill GGPlay. |
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| SuperJongMan Jamaica. June 29 2007 05:51. Posts 11428 | Profile Blog # |
Flash vs Iris OSL FINALS PLZ PLZ PLZ.
LOL I'm Jinxing it. |
| | POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~ | |
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 Carnac Germany. June 29 2007 06:07. Posts 16369 | Profile Blog # |
Now that we know the semifinalists of both the MSL and OSL let us have a closer look.
We had 4 players who were in the quarters of OSL and MSL: as well as 8 players who were in the quarters of eiher OSL or MSL:- Gorush
- Iris
- Firebathero
- GGPlay
- Flash
- Reach
- July
- 910
So we get a list of quarters participated / quarters won which looks like this:- Stork 2/2
- Bisu 2/1
- Hwasin 2/0
- Savior 2/0
- Gorush 1/0
- Iris 1/1
- Firebathero 1/1
- GGPlay 1/1
- Flash 1/1
- Reach 1/0
- July 1/0
- 910 1/0
My thoughts on the next ranking:
#1 Beyond any doubt Stork must be #1 in the next PR. He is the only player in the semis of both Starleagues and he also has a sick Proleague record. Did I mention that Samsung sent him out for ace matches five times and that he won them all? That's right. Doesn't matter that he lost vs Savior at first, he redeemed himself by raping everyone in the Wildcard round and then dismantled 910 like the newbie he is.
#2 This is where it gets hard already, because we have several worthy contenders. Because Samsung is on a roll and FBH is the first player to beat Savior in a Starleague TvZ bo5 series and he also is 8-1 in Proleague (!) I will put FBH on #2. That being said I don't like the guy at all.
#3 Bisu. He lost one in OSL quarters 0-2 to marine cheeses, which isn't enough to drop him a lot, since he won in MSL quarters vs Hwasin and managed to start winning in Proleague, going from a former 0-5 record to 5-5 now.
#4 Savior. Yeah, he's out of both Starleagues, but he looked strong and having to play ZvT on Monty is... well... gay.
Flash, GGPlay, Iris and Gorush must be in it as well, too lazy to think about their appropriate ranks right now though.Last edit: 2007-06-29 06:10:53 |
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| HaXxorIzed Australia. June 29 2007 06:12. Posts 4716 | Profile Blog # |
I can't argue with Carnac's logic there. Stork is undoubtedly right at the top -> although I suspect he'll be in trouble if he has to face GGplay again.
Right now though, in terms of pure Form Stork is looking with good cjances to take both Starleagues. Yes, he has to get through FBH, but I'd go with Stork's PvT over FBH's TvP (same with Flash vs Stork in an OSL final). Gorush and GGplay are defiantly obstacles ... but Stork's been there and taken down Gorush in high stakes PvZ, at least. He can beat them if he faces them, there's no doubt about that.Last edit: 2007-06-29 06:13:14 |
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| Jathin United States. June 29 2007 06:59. Posts 3393 | Profile Blog # |
Eh, I doubt Stork will be #1. Despite the fact that he's in both OSL and MSL, consider who he had to face: Reach and 910, respectively. PvP is a joke and if you had them face off 10 times, Reach would win 5 and Stork would win 5. It's a toss-up when you have players of that calibur (though I admit, Stork is better, the outcome seems to always be 50/50). 910 is a fool don't even bother bringing his name up here.
Bisu, on the other hand, faced significantly tougher opponents in his path to where he is. Sure, he lost to Flash - twice, to cheesy shit. That doesn't necessarily change Bisu's capabilities. The fact that he's still in MSL warrants a high standing on the PR, probably at #1.
Only reason why I'd put Bisu #1 and Stork #2 is because we don't have more matches to judge by. Had we one more week to decide, Stork #1 and Bisu #2 would be very likely. But we can't speculate. What I'm saying is this -- Stork right now has a chance at both the OSL and MSL title. BUT he hasn't proven himself in PvZ. So if GoRush happens to beat Bisu, it's a toss-up. Likewise, if GGPlay happens to beat Flash, it's also a toss-up. Given 1 more week of games to ensure that Flash and Bisu in fact do advance in their respective Starleagues, I'd put Stork at #1 because it's clear to see he's in good standing to take both leagues.
I haven't watched the games to be able to judge yet, but keep in mind that both performance and results matter. Bisu's performance has never been sub-par in either Starleague. FBH, on the other hand, is a cheesy piece of shit. He beat Savior but that alone isn't enough to warrant #2, he needs to prove his abilities against other opponents too. So I can almost 100% guarantee you that FBH will not be #2. Not the slightest chance in hell.
Outcomes will likely look like:
#1 Bisu
#2 Stork
#3 Savior
Next month, we'll probably see another story -- probably #1 Stork, #2 Bisu, #3 ???
I KNOW next PR is going to cause a lot of shit. Because there are going to be players in high-ranks that have lost their games. However, you need to realize what the important question is in designating PR's -- that is, "Given the pro-gamer's current state, could he beat player X?"
Given Savior's current state, he could still beat anyone in pro-gaming. So while on one hand we try not to consider a player's history (ie. you won't see oov anywhere on the PR next month, despite him winning many SL's) -- but on the other hand, we need to consider CURRENT state. Andy would have a tough time arguing in favor of midas, for example, but definitely not for Savior. So it's a combination of both results and performance/current conditions. Savior JUST got knocked out of his 2nd SL, 2 days before the next PR. What's more fair, to judge Savior based on 28 days of being a Starleague-contender, or on 2 days of being a eliminated? The former seems more relevant.Last edit: 2007-06-29 07:06:20 |
| | ~No man is worth your tears, and the one that is won't make you cry~ |
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| Carnac Germany. June 29 2007 07:23. Posts 16369 | Profile Blog # |
I agree that FBH will probably not be on #2, even if I put him there. Hell, I even personally only put him there just for the sake of doing so. The 5th game vs Savior was brilliant though. Almost as brilliant as Casy vs July on RLT. He perfectly studied his opponent and totally fooled him. Yeah, that's a skill too.
As for Stork #1 don't forget his Wildcard games, where he looked incredibly strong. Not to mention that if players look similarly strong in the Starleagues (which is true for Bisu and Stork) then you have to take into account their Proleague results, which easily secures Stork in spot #1. Like I said he won 5 ace matches for his team this season.. |
| | Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking | |
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| boghat United States. June 29 2007 08:09. Posts 2109 | Profile # |
Stork should obviously be #1.
I don't see why some of you don't give Flash more credit. He excuted two PERFECT cheeses against the number 1 power ranker and dismantled him. The cheeses weren't even close games whatsoever. Flash simply rolled the fuck over Bisu. Flash has also proved he is plenty competent in longer TvP games as well so I don't think the fact that he chose to win with 'cheese' should hurt him that much. He should probably be in the top 5 I'd say.
What is he 14-2 now in his career losing only to Boxer and Savior? I mean come on now, that's scary.Last edit: 2007-06-29 08:13:09 |
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| ~chut~ France. June 29 2007 08:20. Posts 1101 | Profile # |
I completely agree with Carnac here.
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| DJEtterStyle United States. June 29 2007 08:21. Posts 2761 | Profile Blog # |
On June 29 2007 08:09 boghat wrote:
I don't see why some of you don't give Flash more credit. He excuted two PERFECT cheeses against the number 1 power ranker and dismantled him. The cheeses weren't even close games whatsoever. Flash simply rolled the fuck over Bisu.
I don't see why you guys don't give Every)P(TT more credit. He executed these perfect cheeses against both Yellow and Midas. Seriously, the games weren't even close. TT just rolled the fuck over them.
...
Your argument is retarded, and cheese isn't a good way to impress someone who's trying to judge your skill.
Added: I'm going on a road trip this weekend; the new PR probably won't be up until the 3rd.Last edit: 2007-06-29 08:36:29 |
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| boghat United States. June 29 2007 09:11. Posts 2109 | Profile # |
On June 29 2007 08:21 DJEtterStyle wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 29 2007 08:09 boghat wrote:
I don't see why some of you don't give Flash more credit. He excuted two PERFECT cheeses against the number 1 power ranker and dismantled him. The cheeses weren't even close games whatsoever. Flash simply rolled the fuck over Bisu.
I don't see why you guys don't give Every)P(TT more credit. He executed these perfect cheeses against both Yellow and Midas. Seriously, the games weren't even close. TT just rolled the fuck over them. ... Your argument is retarded, and cheese isn't a good way to impress someone who's trying to judge your skill.
TT has pissed me off in the past because he cheeses so much but I never didn't give him credit for being good at successfully cheesing. I've never seen those two games you mention so I don't know if TT should be given as much credit as I think Flash deserves. For example I remember hearing that Midas just made a really bad build order for TT's rush and it was a bonehead move from him. But the big difference here is TT did those cheeses in preliminary leagues whereas this is the OSL RO8. I don't see why TT has much relevance in this discussion though.
Flash successfully cheesed the #1 power ranked Bisu two games in a row in the RO8 in the OSL. That is pretty impressive to me. If you aren't impressed by this though then there's always the fact that he went 7-1 in June as well as 4-1 in the OSL, 6-1 in the Proleague, and 14-2 overall. Clearly he's been building up to getting a spot on the power rank the past couple months and the 2-0 of Bisu is the icing on the cake. |
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| Jathin United States. June 29 2007 10:21. Posts 3393 | Profile Blog # |
Flash's games:
Win over TT on Hitchhiker
Win over TT on Longinus2
Win over free[gm] on Longinus2
Win over Bisu on Arkanoid
Win over Light on Hitchhiker
Win over Rage on Geometry
Loss to Savior on Fantasy
Win over PokJu on Python
Win over Pusan on Geometry
Loss to Boxer on Python
Win over Clon on Tau Cross
Win over oov on Monty Hall
Win over Luxury on Python
Win over Odin on Peaks
Win over Bisu on Hitchhiker
Win over Bisu on Monty Hall
He hasn't beaten anyone worth a damn except for oov. TT is a joke, free's PVT is abysmal, Pokju is probably the worst player in pro-gaming. He beat Bisu on Arkanoid which is obviously a T >>> P map, and 2 cheeses.
That doesn't constitute skill. All he's proven is his TvT capabilities really. |
| | ~No man is worth your tears, and the one that is won't make you cry~ |
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