A View on Neo-Gen PvZ

Editor's Note: This is completely unedited and in BluzMan's original words. It's a very good article and I think it deserves more attention than it would get just being in his blog. BluzMan, I hope you write more. Everyone else, enjoy the read!

A View on Neo-Gen PvZ
by BluzMan (Guest Writer)
TeamLiquid: Final Edits

Now, this is all arbitrary data and my own thoughts, that's why it didn't make it to the strategy forum. First of all, let me introduce myself.

My B.net nickname is NyRe, some of you have played with me, some of you have read my PvT guide. Now, I can't claim I'm a good player (however, everyone's standards of a good player can be vastly different), but you have never seen me and will never see me asking for advice on the strat forum. I tend to lose a lot of games, but I always know why I lost. It's not even my mechanics that hinder my play (although they surely do), I just don't have the champion spark inside me. Even if I know what to do in any given situation, in-game, I'm likely to forget it or misjudge the situation for another one. But I still have good theory that comes from 5 years of playing multiplayer SC and the sole fact that I've watched like 20 times more games that I've played. So, this blog is a view on the modern PvZ trends and why exactly the MU was reversed in an instant.

It was only a year before this moment when the strat forum of TL.net was flooded with PvZ imba threads. Everyone on these boards was crying that zerg is very hard to kill. Every large tournament PvZ victory was a celebration, in fact, every toss advancement in any league was an event. Remember the Legend of the Fall? We don't need this any more, protoss is the dominating race at the moment, but back then it was like toss could only triumph with the greater powers' help. Now, at the second last MSL it boiled down to a PvZ final. I can't bring the exact stats, but more than a half people predicted a 3-0 series. Indeed, they were right, however, not completely right. Now who expected a rookie protoss to take down the best zerg on earth 3-0? Clearly, noone. Some people rooted for Bisu, but noone expected THAT kind of domination.

Now StarCraft has entered a strange era. PvT was considered protoss favoured, PvZ was considered zerg favuored, ZvT was considered terran favoured. All that was before the era of reversal started. We now witness zerg players who have better ZvT than ZvP (zerg twins, Yellow and Luxury, Jaedong), tosses with brilliant PvZ and mediocre PvT (Bisu was one of those, but he made tweaks to his PvT later, Free to some extent), even terrans who do better TvP than TvZ although the latter are quite rare (you could recall Iris before he decided to brew a Potion of Hand Dexterity and accidentially added a few hallucinogenic mushrooms into the mix). A mere two years ago that would've been absurd.

Maps.

First of all, of course, maps. New maps favor fast expand builds from protoss, in fact, neo-gen standards label any kind of 1 gate or not-proxied-at-nat 2 gate builds cheese. I remember a time when FE was considered a desperation build for toss that traded any kind of early-game aggression for a questionable feeling of safety. But FE is not the main thing that changed in maps, you could actually go FE on temple and have success. There was a paradigm shift. Everyone knows that zerg units require gas. Everyone knows that protoss core units require minerals, as well as cannons. In 2005, it seemed quite logical to assume that stripping zerg of gas would be the way to solve the PvZ imbalance. Gas-rich maps were considered zerg imba and there are still people on some mapmaking sites that make those min-only easily reachable expansions believing they help out toss. That couldnt've been more wrong! When the concept of timing finally established itself in the foreign community, it became clear that no matter how much gas we give to the zerg at early stages, build timings won't allow him to abuse it. Toss can easily throw away 3 probes and 100 minerals to mine an extra geyser. Getting even a second fast extractor for zerg is not favored at the moment, eco seems to be much more important than early teching. A gas mining operation is -4 drones for zerg, and that is a lot. The other point is that the same gas allows protoss a much more coherent midgame with increased overall use of dragoons and other gas-demanding units (more on that later). Late-game, a toss with lots of gas is a nightmare to behold. Ultraling, dubbed "instawin" in 2005-2006 simply dies in cosmic numbers to protoss gas tech. In 2007, we have even witnessed successful arbiter usage on the pro-scene (thx Pusan, I love you) in PvZ. Thus, one of the reasons for a new PvZ balance situation was the gas abundance on new maps.

A brief historical overview.

1) I believe neo-gen PvZ eventually formed itself out of sair/reaver and sair/DT debuts. So, the history of it comes right from the Neo Hall Of Valhalla and Dire Straits days, where sair/reaver was eventually discovered to be an extremely effective protoss island map combo. To be honest, on pure islands like Dire Straits it's so strong that it is imbalanced. The concept behind the strategy is very simple - you use corsairs to handle any kind of zerg air, be it muta or mass drops, you use reavers to kill his economy and, eventually, himself. If he builds mass hydra to counter you, you take the whole map and humiliate him with mass scouts. GG.

2) Sair/DT combo. Hard to say who invented it, I can assume every toss alive had someday thought "hey, sairs kill ovies, and without ovies, zerg dies to DT", so it's probably folklore, but of all sair/DT variations only two survived to be major strategies - early game 1 gate tech sair/DT opening to gain an early expo and early archives, at the same time forcing zerg to build an early hydra den, therefore being protected from muta when it comes and the late-game sair/DT "surprise" build that involves massacring zerg with about 20 of each sairs and DTs. There was much discussion on the sair/DT opening, but most people concluded that it was not very effective vs a high-class zerg as it provided a very low level of aggression. On the middle skill level, however, it was easier to sneak that DT somewhere in the zerg's base and wreak havoc, but not vs a premium one. When FE came, 1 gate sair/DT has lost it's point - FE gave a much faster expansion anyway.

3) Disembarking. That's it, I don't remember who did it first, Reach or Nal_Ra, but eventually, Sair/Reaver was executed in a televized game on a ground map. Executed successfully. At first, it looked noobish and cheesy as it involved a lot of "sneaky" drops and 12312 cannons to protect bases. But then, on Arcadia II and Azalea, it time after time proved to be a favoured strategy. However, I think it's strength was not fully understood at that time - Arcadia and Azalea were both too hard to play the other way. However, it was somewhat shocking because it has shown the world that PvZ can be played in an entirely different way. Remember 2003 Reach replays? Hard, desperate fights, constant defense against all the numerous tricks zerg did, usually, even a second base was so hard to take and hold. Sair/reaver was nowhere like it. A protoss fleet flying all over the map freely, striking where and when it wanted to, ultimately finishing the zerg with carriers, a unit that is so obviously handicapped vs plague/scourge. Arcadia and Azalea were eventually removed from the leagues, but that impression carried on.

4) Sair/reaver on new maps and FE -> Sair/DT aka the Bisu build. With a slew of new and not-so-good maps like Desert Fox and Arkanoid, sair/reaver returned into play. However, both desert fox and arkanoid are not island maps lategame, they are not even like Arcadia. Sair/reaver game paradigm (i.e. sair/reaver into beacon/archives into carrier/sair/reaver/HT air-based play) slowly shifted into the concept of a sair/reaver opening. You just use that force as an opening, then you play your normal ground-based PvZ. Those maps are wide-open late game, so that development was quite natural. I think that was an essential moment in the development of the FE -> sair general concept. Then, IT happened. Bisu took down the best ZvP on earth (also known for his impenetrable psyche) in the final of a major league, 3-0, using the same build every game. Fast expand into sair/DT. He not only defeated Savior, he made him look helpless as if Bisu was playing the calm and confident zerg, and Savior played the desperate protoss. The match-up was reversed, and someone on these boards even wrote a short article about how he now was (for the first time in his life) thinking something like "why should I be worried, it's just another zerg".

What is neo-gen PvZ?

Well, I've made a long historical overview (calling it brief haha) only to come to this: sair/reaver and sair/DT were both instrumental in the forming of the neo-gen. However, it has only recently become clear that the core unit for both combination is not the DT and not the reaver, but the corsair itself. It was considered that both reaver and DT are strong units and corsairs... just complement them well. However, in reality, it's the sair that is the main damage dealer, and reavers and DT's just gain extra efficiency from being used in tandem with corsairs. Thus, neo-gen PvZ relies on corsair usage. I've become completely confident in that after I've seen a rep of Dreiven vs someone where he went just mass sairs, without either DT or reavers. He won in such a decisive way that I've even felt pity for the poor zerg. The rep is in the WGT pack released recently.

Non-mineral-equivalent effects and threat.

When we compare units, we use the concept of cost-efficiency. How something is efficient for it's cost. But sometimes, we can't measure the effectiveness of something in minerals or gas. The prime example would be drops. Going fact/port for terran in terms of money and unit count is disadvantageous - he spends money on the tech and dropships and has, therefore, reduced unit count. Moreover, when his drop arrives at the protoss base, it is hopelessly outnumbered and is killed, reducing the unit count even more. What's the catch? Position and dominance. By dropping units you place them in good position, you can hurt your enemy's economy, and, most importantly, you gain dominance over the flow of the game. Dropping a couple of units into your enemy's base may halt his much larger force from attacking, giving you the time to expand and gain superior position with your main force. Boxer was the first player to fully realize the importance of such an advantage. Zerg gameplay was based on muta harass for a long time - terran has to stay in his base even though he has a superior army, allowing the zerg to get his expansions freely. It can be called threat and it essentially the third variable in the mass/power equation. Having a high threat can allow you to stay in the game even when you're behind on both mass and power. It was somewhat reflected in 2006's PvT trends where tosses went reaver harass to gain threat and expand like mad. The importance of threat can be seen in {YO SPOILER!!!} the recent game of Flash vs Pusan on Katrina - Pusan went fast arbiters and mass recalls. His recalls were ehh... not the best display of recall efficiency, he definetely lost more in minerals/gas than he killed, one time even losing two full control groups of units and his arbiter instantly to mines Flash planted at his base. Watching that game, you have the feeling that Pusan should be losing, but he wins in the end. Better macro? Maybe. Threat management? Definetely. Well, all that was a little off-topic, so let's just say sairs' effectiveness can't be measured in "what units I could've built for that money", they generate threat and a lot of it.

What do sairs do?

As mentioned in the previos paragraph, sairs generate threat and eliminate threat generated by zerg. Their primary roles are:

1) Scouting. The problem of "what build order does zerg go" is being solved instantly - you just fly in and see for yourself. Moreover, zerg needs hydra to counter sairs, so you not only scout his BO, you actually influence it. Making it much easier to counter.

2) Harassment. Hydras and spore colonies matter a lot when you go 1 gate sair/DT, but not nearly as much when you mass sairs after FE. Sairs build just as fast as zealots, so you can have a large fleet pretty soon after you set up your FE teching. It's easy - if he doesn't have enough at his base, you just fly in and kill all of his overlords. If he keeps being reckless about his defense, you do it again. And again. And again until he gg's. What is fun is that when you have dweb, "enough defense" may grow to a gargantuan amount. What is the most important here is not that you can kill zerg's overlords. What is important is that you can manipulate him into rallying his force to wherever you want him to rally it to, allowing you to get away with otherwise hardly defendable expansion attempts and many other neat stuff. Lategame you can stage attacks on mutliple directions.

3) Sair/reaver and sair/DT. Those can be qute strong because you not only manipulate his forces, you can do actual economic damage in whatever holes you create with your sair fleet. What is also nice is that those are interchangeable. You can start out with Sair/Reaver and then go Sair/DT and vice versa.

4) You force hydras. Actually, a great great boon if you can access an easy 3-rd gas, because HT/zealots rape stuff.

5) Mutas don't seem imba anymore. With the growth of players like July, muta harass seemed harder an harder to defend from - archons just don't cut it with their speed and size, HT's are easily sniped and can storm your own probes. Corsairs, while they might not be able to go on offense for some time vs a heavy muta/scourge force, make your cannoned bases safe. Safe. SAFE. And the more money zerg spends on muta/scourge, the worse he is going to be raped when sairs reach critical mass. He can surely go devourers and stuff, but it's ground map so storm/HT owns once again.

6) Sair prepare ground for drops. Both HT and DT drops can be devastating vs zerg. Normally, zerg has scourge patrolling the map with ovies hanging on every strategic location. With sairs, all those drop prevention methods don't work. With sair fleets around, you can integrate drops into your PvZ as standard play, not a desperation attempt made in hope he doesn't see the red dot on the minimap. Actually, a game-breaking advantage if used right.

7) Put on the blindfold. Now, the most characteristic thing about old-school PvZ is the absolute control zerg has over the map in late game. He knows where your forces are, he can sneak his ling forces into every undefended base of yours and he knows it will be effective because your main force is far from that spot. He knows when you expand and can send like 8 cracklings (neglible for him) to lay waste to your expo just before the cannons finish. He knows when you change your army composition, he knows when you drop, he knows you have observers and he knows when they stray away so that he can scourge them. In essence, zerg has maphack. Guess what? 8-12 corsairs patrolling the map and that unbelievable huge advantage zerg has is gone. Yes, 8-12 sairs cost a lot of money. The question is, how much minerals/gas does maphack cost? Every serious player realizes that the advantage a maphack gives is tremendous because maphack completely changes threat management.

8) Overall, when you go corsairs, you sacrifice either mass or power to gain an advantage in threat. With the modern build-orders being very risky (i.e. reliant on careful timing and unit control) you can't play perfectly safe anyway and threat is very important. If you build 10 spore colonies, you die. That's why I believe that neo-gen PvZ is in its essence corsair usage.

Conclusion.

I do think that the key to PvZ today is air superiority. Even though neo-gen PvZ requires much better mechanics that old-school style (for example, my 200+ APM is not enough to do it better than just "okay"), I still recommend every toss to at least try it. It essentially reverses the MU not in terms of balance, but in terms of thinking. You stop thinking "I must hold, I must hold..." and you start thinking "Zerg... prey!". With sair/reaver into ground strategies I was able to win games vs zergs I couldnt've beaten before. Moreover, some of those games involved me playing with 5000 minerals suprlus. I almost felt like cheating because I was winning games I shouldn't have won. So grab your asses into the air and start treating zergs like a hunter, not a defending prey.

Whew, it's large. ^^

Last edit: 2007-10-17 23:00:54

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Hot_Bid Administrator October 17 2007 05:44.

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Though many have thought about it, nobody really has articulated "threat" as an aspect of the game until you did, great job.

As I read this I was nodding a lot, and when I got to this great point:

Yes, 8-12 sairs cost a lot of money. The question is, how much minerals/gas does maphack cost? Every serious player realizes that the advantage a maphack gives is tremendous because maphack completely changes threat management.

I was like YES!! You can't put a price on maphack. I'm loving that more and more Tosses in PvZ (with corsairs) are making Zergs play "in the dark." Gone are the days of knowing exactly what's going on at all times.

What's also interesting is that as the players skill levels increase, it seems that the matchups "unbalance" the T>Z>P>T paradigm even more. It makes for Progaming to be even more exciting nowadays.

Last edit: 2007-10-17 05:54:45

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minus_human Romania. October 17 2007 05:47. Posts 4758

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On October 17 2007 05:44 Hot_Bid wrote:

What's also interesting is that as the players skill levels increase, it seems that the matchups "unbalance" the T>Z>P>T paradigm even more. It makes for Progaming to be even more exciting nowadays.

Except for P>T -.-

Hot_Bid Administrator October 17 2007 05:51.

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On October 17 2007 05:47 minus_human wrote:

Show nested quote +

Except for P>T -.-

Meh.

Iris 3-0 Stork (Daum Semis)
FBH 2-3 Stork (GomTV2 Semis)
Hwasin 2-3 Bisu (GomTV2 Quarters)

It's still really close, and while recently yes it seems carriers=instant win, I think the feeling that P>>>T really is just a product of so many weak Terrans being in both individual leagues.

P.S. the Hwasin vs. Bisu Round 1 was scary as hell for P players everywhere.

Last edit: 2007-10-17 06:08:50

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Drowsy United States. October 17 2007 05:52. Posts 4826

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I love it, very in-depth look at strategy and the metagame of zvp, even though I barely play anymore. A++

Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.

minus_human Romania. October 17 2007 05:57. Posts 4758

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I didn't knew about the last Hwasin-Bisu series, I'll check it out thanks
BTW it was very cool of you to put this to the Final Edits, HB;)

kawoq Guatemala. October 17 2007 06:13. Posts 320

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great reading and thoughts... A+

I will use it.. but wait.. I am a terran user.... =P...

"It is not a shameful thing to be unable to reach the goal. It's becoming afraid and running away, even before considering the fact that the road is long and rough, that is truly cowardly." by - Lim Yo Hwan aka SlayerS_Boxer from "Crazy as me"

ManaBlue Canada. October 17 2007 06:54. Posts 10458

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Wow, that was incredibly well written. Where the hell did you suddenly come from with insight like that?

I really like how you expanded on the value of sairs. I feel like you've articulated a lot of things that people may have been thinking, but organized and presented it all beautifully. Nicely done.

I hope this isn't the last time we see you write for FE.

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Nyovne Netherlands. October 17 2007 07:08. Posts 17177

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Great read and it puts down well how I feel as zerg tbh, for the same reason that EVERY terran on ICC goes mnm turret vs mutas these days after FE and gets hurt bad by 9 or 12 pool with speed ling into expo 2 hatch fast lurkers (with or without stop lurker), tosses all go 2 gate pressure or FE corsair rvr or corsair DT into 3 base or maybe 4 of their 3rd base is another main and they can free claim the natural and then just 15 gate ground zerg into oblivion on a mostly equal base count which storm upsets hard not to mention reaver archon support.

Great article and yes Threat and the mind game have been a part Ive always adressed aswell as game breaking. Just see when a better player makes a mistake against someone who knows the other is better and gets behind. They are just too afraid to take the advantage just lying there because they think the other guy is better and the advantage cant be there that clearly allowing the other guy to get back into the game and crush them afterall confirming just that suspicion.

Again, great article

For remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.

Last Romantic United States. October 17 2007 07:35. Posts 20146

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Minor issue - "Only a zerg" was from a HwaSin interview regarding ipxzerg, IIRC.

Great read. Good insight on a lot of things - perhaps slightly exaggerated for effect, but very understandable.

I would have liked it if you addressed the tradeoff of building sairs. While you focus a lot on "making corsairs is good", you drop defense issues - whether or not it is feasible. You say "all builds have risk", but some have comparatively more risk - and IMO, a sair-heavy early build carries inherent risks that are greater than cit before star or one-sair star FE builds.

Granted, sair-first or sair-heavy builds mitigate other threats, but there's still the issue of resources that you can't devote to defense/later defense [stork vs savior on zodiac, or something similar]

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Asakura Germany. October 17 2007 07:36. Posts 471

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Oh, this is one of an awesome article!

Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them. (Epictetus)

chobopeon United States. October 17 2007 07:37. Posts 7284

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I said it in the blog but I have to reiterate how awesome this is. And it looks like that PvT guide is pretty good itself!

Write more! We'll pay you in devoted love delivered via comments.

TheFoReveRwaR United States. October 17 2007 07:46. Posts 10265

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[From Blog Thread] Awesome write up. Ya I pretty much agree with almost every aspect of this post. I dispise mass corsairs as Z. Especially when they play passive defense with lots of drops while taking more bases into late game sair/carrier. Sooo hard to beat. It shows exactly why maps with a lot of gas are actually really good for P. It allows them to mass early corsairs as while as temps. This allows them to take expansions with sair/dt. And defend them well against the envitable mass hydra with templar as well as constantly patrol overlords with sair. With this kind of play its very easy to gain a dominate position for late game as P.

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Wizard Poland. October 17 2007 07:48. Posts 5055

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Nice article!

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NonY October 17 2007 07:49. Posts 6924

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PvT is gay. PvZ is awesome. Protoss players have definitely been stalling a bit on PvT. The Terrans have been steadily evening-out the long tradition of P>T and the Protoss have just been letting it happen. The more PvT's I watch, the more I feel like there is no "standard play" for dominating a Terran, like savior had for ZvT in '06, but rather the Protoss player needs a huge bag of tricks at every stage of the game to snatch wins.

"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ------ Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'

Brutalisk October 17 2007 08:09. Posts 794

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Well written indeed. Though it's nothing new, it sums the situation up nicely.
I hate sairs, with a passion (in ZvP).
The main three benefits of sairs is to be able to scout everything, to deny the Zerg from scouting everything, and to force the Zerg into building hydras. These three effects are so insanely good for the Protoss.
And let's not forget that the Zerg might be significantly slowed down, depending on the number of overlords lost to sairs.

I remember a few years ago P players hated that Z had so much freedom, that Z always dictated the game, so they had to carefully adapt to the Z at all stages of the game, or die. Mass sairs completely eliminate this freedom, and force the Z to adapt instead (make mass hydras). With sairs, P dictates the game.
It doesn't matter that P can't do any early game aggression or anything against Z double expanding: in mid game, P will control the game, so it's worth it.

So yes it's true, sairs are insanely good in PvZ, when you disregard their cost and just look at the huge effect/influence they have. Plus, they stay useful throughout the whole game (think late game sair/DT vs. ultras (in addition to your usual ground army) - works well).

Z>P turned into Z=P. Maybe it'll even become P>Z in the future. Bisu's PvZ almost looks like it... but then again, in 2006 Savior was considered to be "invincible", so it might also just be a short period, until the other players have caught up in terms of skill and counter strategies.

Last edit: 2007-10-17 08:20:55

Waves Australia. October 17 2007 09:02. Posts 185

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Final Edits remains my favorite feature on the site. Great article BluzMan, and thanks to Hot_Bid(?) for bringing it to our attention.

Seraphim United States. October 17 2007 09:10. Posts 4461

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Wow, nice job NyRe :D

Props to you

Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!

Superiorwolf United States. October 17 2007 09:25. Posts 5169

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Kudos, that was an AMAZING read!

Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)

fusionsdf Canada. October 17 2007 09:50. Posts 15354

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Before the GOM-1 MSL finals - Commentator: "fact #1. theres 2.69% chance of Toss wining against savior in best out of 5 matchup"

SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."

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