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 FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:15. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:12 Ideas wrote:
Good PR, the only change I would make would probably be replacing Yarnc with Effort.
I had considered that, but in the end it came down to the fact that Effort isn't in any league right now, and Yarnc is in OSL and MSL. MSL from a round of 8 seed, yes, but he did qualify for OSL by winning games. |
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| Mogwai United States. January 16 2009 01:17. Posts 8053 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:09 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 16 2009 01:07 Mogwai wrote:
So Stork's loss in GOM was to BackHo... so what? You talk a lot about looking at how someone lost rather than just taking the results at face value, but you seem to just ignore that sometimes and berate players for losing to certain other players that you think suck. Now, I'm not really going to debate that BackHo doesn't suck, cause well, he does, but he played his balls off in that series and managed to play exceptional PvP in a Bo3. If there was something more to Stork's placement, fine, then say it, but don't cut a dude 4 places for losing a tight match with someone who was playing a great match.
Hmmm If you really think it was a close series with good player from both sides, I can understand your concern. I watched the games a few times trying to figure out what I was watching, because in my eyes it was some seriously poor play fom both sides. I wouldn't base the PR off name value alone 
well, as far as I could tell, they were playing well, but the intricacies of PvP are completely lost on me, so I could easily not know what I'm talking about. The point is, it wasn't like last season when Stork was just like, "dur dur dur, observers are for chumps who want to waste gas" and lost to DTs 2 times in a row, these were legit games. Whether they were executed to the level you would expect from Stork is not really something I'm qualified to say, but it sure seemed to me that they were both playing good goon + reaver games and BackHo just outplayed him. |
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| baubo China. January 16 2009 01:17. Posts 3265 | Profile # |
On January 16 2009 01:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 16 2009 01:00 baubo wrote:
I think I'm even more surprised at Leta coming out of nowhere to be #2 than Jangbi at #1, since Jangbi's been playing at top 5 level for several months now. Also surprised that Free dropped out and Hwasin dropped in. Yarnc I can almost understand. But I thought if you're going to put in another terran, ForGG and Mind seems to make more sense.
Anyway, this is an "in-between" month anyway. Next month, everyone starts playing in the MSL/OSL, we'll truly see who's top notch. But IMO, Bisu has nowhere to go but down unless he wins GOM, because getting kicked out of Ro36/Ro32 in the major starleagues just doesn't cut it.
fOrGG and Mind were candidates, but after watching their last five games each, and then watching Hwasin's games, the choice was clear. If this was a month ago, you'd certainly be correct. And free, yeah. I debated a lot of different things with myself about free, but in the end the gameplay just doesn't match the ranking. It did last month, because he played quite a few notable matches, but this month he's just been a run-of-the-mill second-rate protoss, save his win over Mind. But again, Mind shouldn't be ranked, so how can I reward free for beating him if he loses to even lesser players?
Okay, I haven't watched their plays lately. But I remembered that as beginning of the month, both Mind and ForGG played quite well, while Hwasin kept losing and losing. But checked the TLPD and realized that things have changed a bit since then. Still, Mind was kicking ass for a stretch there, but he's just so inconsistent...
But the main reason I'm surprised at Hwasin is just how badly he was playing up until now. I mean, he was literally losing left and right for quite a while. But then for some reason he got his act together and pummeled though his OSL qualifiers group. I guess he just sucks in the proleagues? |
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 MrHoon  January 16 2009 01:17. Posts 8630 | Profile Blog # |
lol @ darth peter. Why do you live here?
Anyways, it looks like FS is giving alot of credit to Flash and JD. And people, you realize in Korea JD was a laughing stock for a good... 3 weeks? JD is lucky to be #4. And honestly, Flash shouldn't be in top 5 imo, but goddamn, everyone else has been doing so fucking terrible.
This looks good, although I would've put Leta #1, but good nonetheless! |
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| FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:19. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:13 zer0das wrote:
I'm completely baffled by this ranking. Jangbi? You say Flash hasn't played well against good opponents except Bisu... but the only other good players he's played are Jaedong (0-1), Stork (0-1), and that's it. He's had one other loss and that was against Horrang2.
Jangbi's played fewer games and his loses are to Shine[kaL], fantasy, and Effort. Why is Jangbi even ahead of Jaedong? Sure Jaedong has looked shaky, but he's also beaten the bloody pulp out of several good players.
Leta I could buy, but Jangbi... nope.
Believe me, I don't like it either, but it's all about the gameplay.
It's no secret that Jangbi has been one of the top players recently, and by watching the games everyone else has played, Jangbi seems to be the only one who has completely retained his dominant edge in the last few weeks. His losses weren't a result of his own bad play (except for the game against Shine[kaL], but can we really punish Jangbi more for one ProLeague loss than we punish any other player for a string of unimpressive games?) |
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| Hyperionnn Turkey. January 16 2009 01:20. Posts 4878 | Profile Blog # |
Bisu's mental state is always complicated i think, he plays like a bonjwa in one game, next day he plays like a chump and i don't get it, even he was winning 2 msl's back to back, he was not good in proleague too, he can not concentrate on a lot of games and he fails some of them.
For PR:Jangbi for #1 aint good, leta would be a better choice imo, he is in both leagues as jangbi and raping everybody |
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| FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:20. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:17 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 16 2009 01:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On January 16 2009 01:00 baubo wrote:
I think I'm even more surprised at Leta coming out of nowhere to be #2 than Jangbi at #1, since Jangbi's been playing at top 5 level for several months now. Also surprised that Free dropped out and Hwasin dropped in. Yarnc I can almost understand. But I thought if you're going to put in another terran, ForGG and Mind seems to make more sense.
Anyway, this is an "in-between" month anyway. Next month, everyone starts playing in the MSL/OSL, we'll truly see who's top notch. But IMO, Bisu has nowhere to go but down unless he wins GOM, because getting kicked out of Ro36/Ro32 in the major starleagues just doesn't cut it.
fOrGG and Mind were candidates, but after watching their last five games each, and then watching Hwasin's games, the choice was clear. If this was a month ago, you'd certainly be correct. And free, yeah. I debated a lot of different things with myself about free, but in the end the gameplay just doesn't match the ranking. It did last month, because he played quite a few notable matches, but this month he's just been a run-of-the-mill second-rate protoss, save his win over Mind. But again, Mind shouldn't be ranked, so how can I reward free for beating him if he loses to even lesser players?
Okay, I haven't watched their plays lately. But I remembered that as beginning of the month, both Mind and ForGG played quite well, while Hwasin kept losing and losing. But checked the TLPD and realized that things have changed a bit since then. Still, Mind was kicking ass for a stretch there, but he's just so inconsistent... But the main reason I'm surprised at Hwasin is just how badly he was playing up until now. I mean, he was literally losing left and right for quite a while. But then for some reason he got his act together and pummeled though his OSL qualifiers group. I guess he just sucks in the proleagues?
Hwasin has always been a ProLeague punching bag
He's had moderate success in certain seasons, but is never really at the front of the pack. |
| | Resident League of Legends & Street Fighter guru - " I know alot of words including tabernacle." - FuDDx ~~~ vrok, newest FakeSteve Fan Club member (55)! | |
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| samachking Bahrain. January 16 2009 01:23. Posts 4949 | Profile Blog # |
| Jangbi vs Shinekal was a ling all in so I would not put too much stock in that game. Nice PR but I would put Free over Hwasin even if Free wasn't in the OSL. He showed good games vs Mind even with sloppy openings. |
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| Dr.Green Philippines. January 16 2009 01:25. Posts 264 | Profile # |
bisu  |
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| arbiter_md Moldova. January 16 2009 01:25. Posts 801 | Profile # |
A man, for the first time in Protoss history gains a ELO of 2300. He goes 4-1 in one day against all three races. And in that same month he is droped from 1 to 5 in PR. And the nr 1 in that PR is just another protoss.
Yes he played bad in the group stages, but he played stelar in the GOM and proleague. He is judged for results in the MSL, when all the others are not, because they didn't play the games yet.
I just disagree. He doesn't deserve nr 1, because his pvz is bad right now, but nobody else deserves this spot either. |
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| FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:27. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:25 arbiter_md wrote:
A man, for the first time in Protoss history gains a ELO of 2300. He goes 4-1 in one day against all three races. And in that same month he is droped from 1 to 5 in PR. And the nr 1 in that PR is just another protoss.
Yes he played bad in the group stages, but he played stelar in the GOM and proleague. He is judged for results in the MSL, when all the others are not, because they didn't play the games yet.
I just disagree. He doesn't deserve nr 1, because his pvz is bad right now, but nobody else deserves this spot either.
Yeah, I can understand your viewpoint.
It just came down to the fact that only Jangbi has kept up his dominant play that earned his spot last month. I couldn't put Leta at #1 with only ProLeague on his resume, and in Bisu's case specifically there was a significant drop in play level. |
| | Resident League of Legends & Street Fighter guru - " I know alot of words including tabernacle." - FuDDx ~~~ vrok, newest FakeSteve Fan Club member (55)! | |
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| zer0das United States. January 16 2009 01:28. Posts 4022 | Profile Blog # |
Thing is, if you look at results, what are the ones that really matter? Starleagues. Everyone below Jangbi up until Best has one (except Leta, and he's a bit of a special case since he has done so well and is a likely candidate to take the OSL/MSL by storm). I'd take any of them over Jangbi, and I can't say that Jangbi would be a favorite over any of them (Stork... maybe, but that's a coin flip in my opinion).
Speaking of which, first time the #1 in power rank doesn't have a starleague under his belt.
Edit: Mm.. well, I guess it's the second one. Flash won GSI before he won the OSL and there was a bit of a lag so he was #1 before his OSL win. But it was practically a given at that point.Last edit: 2009-01-16 01:31:06 |
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| Mogwai United States. January 16 2009 01:29. Posts 8053 | Profile Blog # |
| edit: whoops, hit back and it reposted. Last edit: 2009-01-16 01:29:56 |
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| FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:31. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:23 samachking wrote:
Jangbi vs Shinekal was a ling all in so I would not put too much stock in that game. Nice PR but I would put Free over Hwasin even if Free wasn't in the OSL. He showed good games vs Mind even with sloppy openings.
I'm of the opinion that losing to a ling all-in is something a Protoss should be able to scout for and defend. Stork seems to do so with some consistancy. I probably punish a Protoss more for losing to a ling all-in than anyone else would. And still, I couldn't give #1 to a different player.
As for free, despite his relative success in GOM and his berth in MSL, his games lately have been pretty shoddy. I certainly wouldn't put him above anyone else, though it's definitely debatable that he should replace Hwasin at #10. It simply came down to some clutch play by Hwasin to qualify for both OSL and MSL, which is something that not even the rest of the PR accomplished on the whole.Last edit: 2009-01-16 01:34:08 |
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| FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:33. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:28 zer0das wrote:
Thing is, if you look at results, what are the ones that really matter? Starleagues. Everyone below Jangbi up until Best has one (except Leta, and he's a bit of a special case since he has done so well and is a likely candidate to take the OSL/MSL by storm). I'd take any of them over Jangbi, and I can't say that Jangbi would be a favorite over any of them (Stork... maybe, but that's a coin flip in my opinion).
Speaking of which, first time the #1 in power rank doesn't have a starleague under his belt.
Edit: Mm.. well, I guess it's the second one. Flash won GSI before he won the OSL and there was a bit of a lag so he was #1 before his OSL win. But it was practically a given at that point.
Results matter, but above all else, good gameplay is king. I don't think anyone would argue that Jangbi's placement last month wasn't justified, and the rest of the pack has simply played worse. It's not like NaDa will be first place every month because he has six titles. |
| | Resident League of Legends & Street Fighter guru - " I know alot of words including tabernacle." - FuDDx ~~~ vrok, newest FakeSteve Fan Club member (55)! | |
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| raga4ka Bulgaria. January 16 2009 01:35. Posts 5042 | Profile # |
On January 16 2009 01:25 arbiter_md wrote:
A man, for the first time in Protoss history gains a ELO of 2300. He goes 4-1 in one day against all three races. And in that same month he is droped from 1 to 5 in PR. And the nr 1 in that PR is just another protoss.
Yes he played bad in the group stages, but he played stelar in the GOM and proleague. He is judged for results in the MSL, when all the others are not, because they didn't play the games yet.
I just disagree. He doesn't deserve nr 1, because his pvz is bad right now, but nobody else deserves this spot either.
OSL MSL outweight GOM and proleague .
JangBI is the best choise for # 1 he has crushed almost all of the competition since he lost to Bisu . Bisu can retake it , but only if he wins GOM and other top players get wasted in the leagues . An all - kill format is coming so top players will benefit a lot if they do well in WL . |
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| baubo China. January 16 2009 01:37. Posts 3265 | Profile # |
On January 16 2009 01:13 zer0das wrote:
I'm completely baffled by this ranking. Jangbi? You say Flash hasn't played well against good opponents except Bisu... but the only other good players he's played are Jaedong (0-1), Stork (0-1), and that's it. He's had one other loss and that was against Horrang2.
Jangbi's played fewer games and his loses are to Shine[kaL], fantasy, and Effort. Why is Jangbi even ahead of Jaedong? Sure Jaedong has looked shaky, but he's also beaten the bloody pulp out of several good players.
Leta I could buy, but Jangbi... nope.
On January 16 2009 01:28 zer0das wrote:
Thing is, if you look at results, what are the ones that really matter? Starleagues. Everyone below Jangbi up until Best has one (except Leta, and he's a bit of a special case since he has done so well and is a likely candidate to take the OSL/MSL by storm). I'd take any of them over Jangbi, and I can't say that Jangbi would be a favorite over any of them (Stork... maybe, but that's a coin flip in my opinion).
Speaking of which, first time the #1 in power rank doesn't have a starleague under his belt.
Looking at your two posts, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. First you say that Leta may be #1, but then you say Jangbi shouldn't be considered because he lacks starleagues titles...
And before you annoint Leta as the next royal roader or something, you do realize that in the past 2 months, Leta has played exactly TWO games against PR-level players, correct? Stop dissing Jangbi for not playing anyone when Leta has not played anyone significant either.
Oh, by the way. When Leta played against those two PR-level players, Jangbi and Best, they absolutely schooled him. You can check the vods if you don't believe me. |
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| SuperJongMan Jamaica. January 16 2009 01:39. Posts 11428 | Profile Blog # |
Worst PR ever. Sorry steve, but releasing once every two months with a joke of a first is bad.
Jangbi hasn't had a single good opponent or a SL game and you put him over seeds and a guy who's broken necks and records, and fans hearts. The guy breaks shit vs a scrub crusher. =(
GJ Jangbi, you beat Pepe, go claim the #1 PR |
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| FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. January 16 2009 01:41. Posts 17084 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:39 SuperJongMan wrote:
Worst PR ever. Sorry steve, but releasing once every two months with a joke of a first is bad.
Jangbi hasn't had a single good opponent or a SL game and you put him over seeds and a guy who's broken necks and records, and fans hearts. The guy breaks shit vs a scrub crusher. =(
GJ Jangbi, you beat Pepe, go claim the #1 PR
I'm not ranking people on KeSPA points here, jonger. I made it pretty clear that Jangbi's placement is simply a lack of alternatives. Read what's written!Last edit: 2009-01-16 01:42:11 |
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 AzureEye United States. January 16 2009 01:41. Posts 1360 | Profile Blog # |
On January 16 2009 01:35 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 16 2009 01:25 arbiter_md wrote:
A man, for the first time in Protoss history gains a ELO of 2300. He goes 4-1 in one day against all three races. And in that same month he is droped from 1 to 5 in PR. And the nr 1 in that PR is just another protoss.
Yes he played bad in the group stages, but he played stelar in the GOM and proleague. He is judged for results in the MSL, when all the others are not, because they didn't play the games yet.
I just disagree. He doesn't deserve nr 1, because his pvz is bad right now, but nobody else deserves this spot either.
OSL MSL outweight GOM and proleague . JangBI is the best choise for # 1 he has crushed almost all of the competition since he lost to Bisu . Bisu can retake it , but only if he wins GOM and other top players get wasted in the leagues . An all - kill format is coming so top players will benefit a lot if they do well in WL .
Whether its OSL or MSL, unless we're talking about winning OSL/MSL finals or beating a really good player Bo5, I don't think it really matters if its starleague or gom. Sure, if a good player drops out of MSL/OSL, it will hurt his resume but good games come from starleagues as well, you can get opponents just as skilled. I don't think Jangbi was a good choice for #1, he's shown positive results but I'd definately put Leta above Jangbi unless Jangbi wins GOM finals or something. Jangbi is not going to win any leagues, you heard it here first |
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