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 DefMatrixUltra   Canada. November 02 2011 22:57. Posts 1174
Profile Blog # 

On November 02 2011 21:34 KwarK wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25902&find=unread

I sighed.


You made my morning, KwarK. One of the defining characteristics of EVE: people are fucking terrible at basic economic thought.
Old Post

  motbob   United States. November 02 2011 23:23. Posts 11471Profile Blog # 
That thread, while terrible, has inspired me to write up a general theory of PLEX and isk in-game. I've struggled to wrap my head around the way PLEXes affect the EVE economy, and how isk sinks and isk bonanzas affect things.

I'm posting this so that people can correct me.

An increase in the amount of isk in EVE is generally reflected by an increase in PLEX prices. Every month, pilots have to make the decision of paying real money for their account or paying isk for a PLEX. For many people, this decision is easy, but for others who make only about 300-500m per month, the decision can be a tough one. An influx of isk shifts the decision towards "buy a PLEX" for a bunch of pilots, increasing the amount of demand for PLEX, pushing up the quantity sold and the price.

CCP have run the 13-PLEX promotion recently. This makes buying PLEX from CCP a better deal than before, which increases the supply of PLEX to the market, increasing PLEX volume and decreasing PLEX price.

Now CCP have introduced the "alt character for 6 months" promotion, which is increasing PLEX demand. People are also resubbing (only anecdotal evidence for this) and that's increasing demand even further.

For PLEX prices to fall once again, we'd need to see one of a few things:

- Incursions eliminated
- People unsubbing
- The real world economy improving (lol)
- Isk sinks that aren't completely awful

EDIT: does botting inflate PLEX prices? Riddle me that.
Last edit: 2011-11-02 23:25:08
<marttorn> lucky I don't live in a culturally diverse place
Old Post

 
 DiracMonopole   United States. November 02 2011 23:29. Posts 1175
Profile # 


EDIT: does botting inflate PLEX prices? Riddle me that.


Yes, bots consume plex and poop out isk. (At least the missioning and sanctum bots)
Old Post

  KwarK   United Kingdom. November 02 2011 23:30. Posts 20627Profile Blog # 
Yes, it does. Botting generates excess isk and requires extra accounts, both of which put pressure on plex prices to rise. Only drone botting, which creates value needing to be liquidated and therefore increases the purchasing power of liquid isk, decreases it.
The angels have the phone box
Old Post

 
 ghost_403   United States. November 03 2011 00:57. Posts 1754
Profile # 

On November 02 2011 23:23 motbob wrote:
...

CCP have run the 13-PLEX promotion recently. This makes buying PLEX from CCP a better deal than before, which increases the supply of PLEX to the market, increasing PLEX volume and decreasing PLEX price.

Now CCP have introduced the "alt character for 6 months" promotion, which is increasing PLEX demand. People are also resubbing (only anecdotal evidence for this) and that's increasing demand even further.

...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the plex prices started going up DURING the 13 plex promotion. Lately, they've definitely spiked but I think that it started earlier than that, and probably even before the new alt promotion. Definitely have to look up the 3, 6, and 12 month prices next time I log on.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
Old Post

  KwarK   United Kingdom. November 03 2011 03:44. Posts 20627Profile Blog # 
Karah and I, and later Valenius too, attacked some pretty stupid stuff today.
I warped at 0 to a huginn, cane, cynabal, stiletto, pest, sleipnir to start off a fight with just a tengu (and a hatchery rifter) backup. We killed the huginn, cane, pest and should have got a cynabal but got unlucky. Unfortunately I couldn't get the longpointing stiletto off me and eventually the pest ran me down and neuted me out because it had cap boosters to keep on mwding whereas I didn't and had been cynabal neuted pretty hard. Still, an impressive win, given the circumstances.

http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10930302

We then attacked Romanian Legion in EC-. I say attacked but actually they figured that since they had 6 bcs, a recon, a logi, a hac and a bunch of t2 frigs they'd warp to our ingate as we jumped. Our brand new rifter suicided himself immediately but Karah, Valenius and I stuck together and webbed out all the tackle frigs. We then forced the scimmy off the field, dropped the rapier, killed the vaga and almost killed the cynabal as the rest of their fleet ran. Two drakes and a tengu against about 15 guys. Fuck yeah.

http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10930398
The angels have the phone box
Old Post

 
 Mandini   United States. November 03 2011 04:22. Posts 1180
Profile # 

On November 03 2011 03:44 KwarK wrote:
Karah and I, and later Valenius too, attacked some pretty stupid stuff today.
I warped at 0 to a huginn, cane, cynabal, stiletto, pest, sleipnir to start off a fight with just a tengu (and a hatchery rifter) backup. We killed the huginn, cane, pest and should have got a cynabal but got unlucky. Unfortunately I couldn't get the longpointing stiletto off me and eventually the pest ran me down and neuted me out because it had cap boosters to keep on mwding whereas I didn't and had been cynabal neuted pretty hard. Still, an impressive win, given the circumstances.

http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10930302

We then attacked Romanian Legion in EC-. I say attacked but actually they figured that since they had 6 bcs, a recon, a logi, a hac and a bunch of t2 frigs they'd warp to our ingate as we jumped. Our brand new rifter suicided himself immediately but Karah, Valenius and I stuck together and webbed out all the tackle frigs. We then forced the scimmy off the field, dropped the rapier, killed the vaga and almost killed the cynabal as the rest of their fleet ran. Two drakes and a tengu against about 15 guys. Fuck yeah.

http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10930398

Anyone know where romanian legion came from? It seems like they think they are the new gate campers of ec-, but they are as bad as, if not worse than, the cfc campers.
Kwark > That said, we're all making giant sandcastles with amazing details that reduce grown men to tears and induce instant sexual gratification in women while you're sitting in the corner by yourself eating the sand.
Old Post

  KwarK   United Kingdom. November 03 2011 04:43. Posts 20627Profile Blog # 
I think they have sov somewhere in the southeast or something but they were certainly more aggressive than the usual CFCs and strangely less cohesive which is saying something. The first wave of ships to mwd up and get on 0 on us were the frigs and the scimmy, the bcs remaining behind.
The angels have the phone box
Old Post

 
 ShoreT   United States. November 03 2011 04:45. Posts 398
Profile # 

On November 02 2011 22:39 motbob wrote:
Hmm, I think the Kestral kill was just a fluke. I've been in Jita with all kinds of expensive shit in my frigate and I've never gotten ganked. Next time I guess use an insta in conjunction with your frigate, or use a dram, or both.


I've afked so many times on gates with magnates or unranked haulers with 500M and never gotten ganked once. Perhaps I'm just kind of lucky. Also motbob / Kwark would you guys be interested in having my indy alt (for phree of course)? PM me.
Derp
Old Post

 
 Byzantium   United States. November 03 2011 04:50. Posts 346
Profile Blog # 
They hold Sov it looks like all the way down south in Period Basis. Not sure why even if they have corps or members who exist in highsec they'd decide what you want to do is camp ec-, I mean it's pretty passe really.

I guess if that whole Delve thunderdome thing extends to PB and theytukdersov, like many similar outfits before them they'll have to move to lowsec to regroup.
MSL 2052
Old Post

  tofucake   United States. November 03 2011 05:19. Posts 11475Profile Blog # 
Yeah they have sov in the ass end of the southwest. Also last night when I left the idiot brigade roam I flew through 4 of their camps with only some minor heat damage and missing a bit of shields. So bad.
kwark > i will mentor you if you wish, but i'm like the absent drunk father you never wanted
Old Post

 
 419   November 03 2011 05:29. Posts 1275
Profile Blog # 

On November 02 2011 21:46 Warri wrote:
http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10929814
le sigh, are you retarded or what. How in hell did you think 2 small extenders are gonna achieve ANYTHING?
Are the constant mails i keep posting with idiots that suciide like you not enough warning? Just 2 days ago i posted the 4b velator, and you still go and try to top that?

At least he's better at flying vagabonds than moving expensive things

oh wait
Last edit: 2011-11-03 05:32:20
bad posting is an ESPORT, and I am it's bonjwa
Old Post

 
 ShoreT   United States. November 03 2011 05:40. Posts 398
Profile # 
The romanians have existed in Stain the the rest of the Southwest since before any of you guys even started playing. When
Eve was first introduced to TL and we were a part of TCSI, some of us lived in Stain for awhile. While in Stain, we were allied with the Romanians. As the g00ns and etc. kicked BOB out of delve, the "romulans" as they were called back then tried to get sov in some systems in PB. I think they have had Sov on and off since then.
Derp
Old Post

 
 Mandini   United States. November 03 2011 05:47. Posts 1180
Profile # 

On November 03 2011 05:19 tofucake wrote:
Yeah they have sov in the ass end of the southwest. Also last night when I left the idiot brigade roam I flew through 4 of their camps with only some minor heat damage and missing a bit of shields. So bad.

Drawing the rapier that i was stalking off of his safe off the torrinos gate
Kwark > That said, we're all making giant sandcastles with amazing details that reduce grown men to tears and induce instant sexual gratification in women while you're sitting in the corner by yourself eating the sand.
Old Post

 
 s0Li   United States. November 03 2011 11:38. Posts 364
Profile # 

On November 03 2011 05:19 tofucake wrote:
Also last night when I left the idiot brigade roam.



You're so cute tofu!

[image loading]
I don't wanna hear excuses, I wanna hear solutions...
Old Post

 
 Mandini   United States. November 03 2011 11:55. Posts 1180
Profile # 
So yeah, those tournaments will be starting next weekend. There will be an EU and NA bracket for sc2, and the winners of both brackets will each get a plex, with an additional plex to the winner of a match between those 2. The second place in each bracket will get 200m. The BW tournament will be on ICCUP and will just be a single bracket. 2 Plex for 1st, 1 plex for second, 200m for third.
Kwark > That said, we're all making giant sandcastles with amazing details that reduce grown men to tears and induce instant sexual gratification in women while you're sitting in the corner by yourself eating the sand.
Old Post

 
 419   November 03 2011 13:01. Posts 1275
Profile Blog # 
Today's festivities, from my point of view, started off by logging in while Kwark and Co. prepared to battle near EC-. Unfortunately I was logged off in the ass-end of Fade due to certain ops gone bad last night involving an Erebus. After somebody informed me that the way to Okagaiken (closest lowsec) was clear, I start warping to the outgate. Local +1s. Okay...

As I land on gate, I see a Heretic pop up on dscan, at which I conclude I'm quite fucked (odds of "solo heretic" are, in personal experience, quite low). He immediately bubbles, I lock him up, point/web, game on. Luckily, I had loaded CN thunders, and the first volley smacked the Heretic for 1800-ish damage. I start burning out of the bubble, and the second volley takes him out. Crow decloaks. Unfortunately, an interceptor runs down a Drake easily, and even worse, it has a scram (why????). I web it, and prepare to face it in a glorious duel to the death. But this is not to be, as a dishonour Falcon decloaks and jams me, at which point Kwark helpfully advises me to self-destruct. Alas, I do not have the time, since a pack of feral Canes and Vagabonds come to assault me, and a second Heretic appears to ensure my pod express home.

gf

(That Drake had about 70 kills to its name. RIP brave honourwarrior o7)

**

I join up with the Saranen crowd, waiting to fight an FA gang consisting of many Canes and whatnot, while some PODLA people come from Taisy to join us. Our plan's timetable is moved up by the announcement that said FA gang is beginning to leave. Before arriving in EC-, Kwark and Karah attempt to 'bait' a rather small (5-7 man) Spacemonkey's camp, presuming that the giant FA cane army will come in to save the day. What really happens is they end up murdering a Vagabond, Fatal Ascension never arrives, and they scatter, leaving us to ungentlemanly blob the last man on the field...

We cruise on over to FA headquarters, looking for a fight. Eventually we find the remnants of the FA gang camping the path to Goonland.

We have 8 BCs, a Zealot, and a Tengu. They have 11 BCs, Lachesis (hello obvious primary), and 3 Scimmis. It is, perhaps, going to become ugly, as overheated Lachesis scrams will be a huge issue if its not taken care of quickly.

Luckily the Lachesis is armor tanked and he dies in a fire. Their gang has little in the way of tackle after that point, so the initial burnout is accomplished with no losses (rifter pilots don't count because they aren't people anyways), their poorly positioned battlecruisers are chased down and killed, and the enemies eventually make the call to deaggress and jump. Mandini carries out podding duty. Michael fails to catch any scimmis on the other side.

Bonus round - some FA member, having escaped the carnage, manages to get caught on the way back home, gfgf: http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10998036

**

We head back to EC-, where a sizable camp is reported. With some nice probing we manage to get the jump onto one of their harbs before they warp on us. Luckily, none of us manage to get caught by the Mordus Angels' secret weapon, the nano-ODI brick cyclone, and from there, its a matter of seeing what we can kill before they leave the field.

Bonus round - some guy warps to Torrinos, presumably expecting friendly forces to be camping the always-bubbled gate. Instead, he dies: http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11003579.

gfgf
Last edit: 2011-11-03 13:04:35
bad posting is an ESPORT, and I am it's bonjwa
Old Post

 
 Byzantium   United States. November 03 2011 14:16. Posts 346
Profile Blog # 
419, I am pretty saddened to see in your battle report a complete neglect of the rifter corps who, despite common things like having one of our number get lost navigating the vagaries of nullsec and end up 10 jumps behind the fleet then die to a lone sabre, and last night having neglected to inform the FC of their movements, the fact that their MWD was offlined due to fitting, and yours truly burning out his MWD chasing a caracal across half of Tribute....

Okay so we're not always glorious. BUT! Today when asked to ensure the safety of the battlecruisers by direct suicide into the midst of the enemy fleet, all three of our rifters took up the mantle For The Swarm! and agreed to burn into the direct middle of the FA blob to ensure the Lachesis could be neutralized, directly in the center of a heretic's bubble, thus knowing they were throwing away not only their ship, but also their pod in heroic warriordom.

Furthermore, after this crucial maneuver which cost the pod (and cerebral accelerator) of one of us, the sheer speed and grace of the Rifter soaked up the drones and fire of (at one point or another) 9 enemy battlecruisers before dying to greed on my part getting in neut range to whore on killmails once the contest was already decided.
MSL 2052
Old Post

 
 abominare   United States. November 03 2011 17:10. Posts 1164
Profile # 

On November 02 2011 23:23 motbob wrote:
That thread, while terrible, has inspired me to write up a general theory of PLEX and isk in-game. I've struggled to wrap my head around the way PLEXes affect the EVE economy, and how isk sinks and isk bonanzas affect things.

I'm posting this so that people can correct me.

An increase in the amount of isk in EVE is generally reflected by an increase in PLEX prices. Every month, pilots have to make the decision of paying real money for their account or paying isk for a PLEX. For many people, this decision is easy, but for others who make only about 300-500m per month, the decision can be a tough one. An influx of isk shifts the decision towards "buy a PLEX" for a bunch of pilots, increasing the amount of demand for PLEX, pushing up the quantity sold and the price.

CCP have run the 13-PLEX promotion recently. This makes buying PLEX from CCP a better deal than before, which increases the supply of PLEX to the market, increasing PLEX volume and decreasing PLEX price.

Now CCP have introduced the "alt character for 6 months" promotion, which is increasing PLEX demand. People are also resubbing (only anecdotal evidence for this) and that's increasing demand even further.

For PLEX prices to fall once again, we'd need to see one of a few things:

- Incursions eliminated
- People unsubbing
- The real world economy improving (lol)
- Isk sinks that aren't completely awful

EDIT: does botting inflate PLEX prices? Riddle me that.


We aren't actually seeing that big of a swing in number of plexes being bought up by players. Its up a little but is on a pretty normal growth cycle. The main culprit looks more like regular inflation.

While CCP is on record saying they love to monitor the plex market, they aren't terribly concerned with the price. Bulk plex purchases normally coincide with landing right before some sort of plex for use promotion like power of two, which has more to do with accounting than actual concerns on the market, they're basically creating an influx to their accounts receivable and then funneling it out of there into cash to make their books look more impressive.

Pretty much business as usual, the money supply needs to take a hit before you'll ever see plex prices go back down.
Last edit: 2011-11-03 17:18:25
Old Post

 
 Byzantium   United States. November 03 2011 17:31. Posts 346
Profile Blog # 

On November 03 2011 17:10 abominare wrote:

Show nested quote +



We aren't actually seeing that big of a swing in number of plexes being bought up by players. Its up a little but is on a pretty normal growth cycle. The main culprit looks more like regular inflation.

While CCP is on record saying they love to monitor the plex market, they aren't terribly concerned with the price. Bulk plex purchases normally coincide with landing right before some sort of plex for use promotion like power of two, which has more to do with accounting than actual concerns on the market, they're basically creating an influx to their accounts receivable and then funneling it out of there into cash to make their books look more impressive.

Pretty much business as usual, the money supply needs to take a hit before you'll ever see plex prices go back down.



So if this is the institutional environment that obtains, it's somewhat likely that the next big isk sink to go in will be the BPCs for the Customs Office Gantries and teir 3 BCs... so no big drop in Plex prices until the expansion.
MSL 2052
Old Post

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