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 fanatacist May 11 2009 16:56. Posts 10000 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence 
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu? |
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| samachking Bahrain. May 11 2009 17:10. Posts 4949 | Profile Blog # |
Steve you hate being wrong, But if you are going to dodge Fantasy's last 2 games you can dodge JDs mini losses this month. Seriously, if JD doesnt deserve no1, the only person that deserves it is Bisu. Watch the games again and think of it, Bisu played sloppy in some games,like the game vs Backho, but what matters is that he wins. Also take the fact that JD has gom to practice for too, which both the SKT players do not have. The only thing that has happened is that these current big 3 are plowing through no names with JD and Fantasy dropping games. Bisu only dropped 1 game to an excellent strategy. Bisu isnt playing at his best but he is still winning games and IS the undisputed best PvP and PvZ for quite a while now.
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| | "And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness." |
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| Sentenal United States. May 11 2009 17:42. Posts 6474 | Profile Blog # |
I seriously don't see how you can say Fantasy is CLEARLY better than Bisu. For one, the quality of opponents Bisu has been beating is better than the non-Jaedong opponents Fantasy has been beating. Secondly, Fantasy has more losses than Bisu, who has only lost to that gay Proxy-Hatch from Great. And those more losses than Fantasy has over Bisu show possible big holes in his Bio TvZ play (which is essential for Terran).
I do respect Steve's opinion with these things, but I really would like to see his justification for Fantasy>Bisu. It just doesn't make sense. |
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 FakeSteve[TPR] Valhalla. May 11 2009 19:52. Posts 17085 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down...
you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately?
this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.Last edit: 2009-05-11 19:53:14 |
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| Darth Peter Romania. May 11 2009 20:51. Posts 438 | Profile # |
On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well. |
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| Geo.Rion Hungary. May 11 2009 20:52. Posts 5354 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
"The problem with the world is that stupid people are absolutely sure about everyting, and smart people are doubting all the time" (I guess ^^)<- translated from a hungarian proverb, i dont know how good it sounds.
Those heavily modified mech opneings result in bio or biomech armies, so for a player liek him mnm control would be important i guess. I dont know how you watch the games, but please name 3 sets from the last month which were outstandingly good from fantasy. One of them should be against JD, that was great from Fanta, but JD did not play as good as he could have either. And he proved he can beat him in a bo5. I'm curious about the other 2 sets you will mention. Please dont disappoint me and say the game vs Anytime on Outsider.Last edit: 2009-05-11 20:54:04 |
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| raga4ka Bulgaria. May 11 2009 21:02. Posts 5042 | Profile # |
On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
The mech builds fantasy uses are not safe . They are still vulnerable as Jaedong showed in the OSL final the last 3 games ended in 10 minutes each . There are precise timings that zerg can abuse with both lings , hydras or mutas to do damage . It's also map dependent otherwise fantasy will not have gone direct bio in his last 2 games and lost . If the vulture harras doesn't do as much damage the zerg can stil proside to the macro game and win like the recent effort vs Flash game .
I'm not convinced that Fantasy is the best player right now he hasn't shown that much after his OSL finals . I think Bisu is a more of a candidate for the top spot then him . Need to see more of fantasy to be convinced . His TvZ isn't top notch imo even with his ''brilliant'' mech builds he is still an avarage TvZer in my mind . Leta and Flash are better TvZers then him , also Leta's wraiths in to bio while not new seems to have as good or better results . Need to see more of fantasy to consider him the top player . Even if fantasy has created a modern mech build that doesn't meen he is playing better starcraft then the other top players .Last edit: 2009-05-11 21:34:01 |
| | "For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio |  |
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 disciple Administrator May 11 2009 21:36. | Profile Blog # |
people have forgotten what makes a great player great.
hmm, really? I remember,like 2 years ago, Federer doing just enough to beat his opponents in the early stages of the tournaments. You see, he was doing nothing spectacular, yet he still seemed unbeatable by all these average guys. But when it was about a really important match in the further stages of the tournament Fed really started to push things. My point is what makes a great player great is the ability not to lose games, no matter how good or focused his play was. With that being said fantasy is just fireworks and candies atm, yes, he is entertaining but that doesnt make him the best player atm.
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| raga4ka Bulgaria. May 11 2009 21:41. Posts 5042 | Profile # |
On May 11 2009 21:36 disciple wrote:hmm, really? I remember,like 2 years ago, Federer doing just enough to beat his opponents in the early stages of the tournaments. You see, he was doing nothing spectacular, yet he still seemed unbeatable by all these average guys. But when it was about a really important match in the further stages of the tournament Fed really started to push things. My point is what makes a great player great is the ability not to lose games, no matter how good or focused his play was. With that being said fantasy is just fireworks and candies atm, yes, he is entertaining but that doesnt make him the best player atm.
For once i agree with disciple . I would rather have Bisu or Jaedong staying at the top . Fantasy isn't as consistent as them he may as well get eliminated by tempest again in the MSL we need more games to see from him imo . There is no spark of dominance when i see him play , even if he sometimes plays brilliant its not that often .
Also your last month's arguments why Bisu should be above fantasy and this month's are completely different and don't make any sence to me .Last edit: 2009-05-11 21:58:22 |
| | "For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio | |
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| Neptuneajax Australia. May 11 2009 21:44. Posts 138 | Profile # |
Since the last PR was post on April 10th
Jaedong has gone 7-5, with 5 of these wins in his best matchup ZvZ. He lost a ZvZ, and lost to players the caliber of ganzi and movie.
Fantasy has gone 6-2 with win over Sea and Jaedong himself, however with lossed to rising Zerg stars, Calm and Hogil
Bisu has gone 8-1 with a loss to cheese from By.Great. He be beat players the likes of Light, Calm, Zero, and Leta, all of whom have been playing very well.
Make of that what you will..... |
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| disciple Administrator May 11 2009 21:48. | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 21:41 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 21:36 disciple wrote:
people have forgotten what makes a great player great.
hmm, really? I remember,like 2 years ago, Federer doing just enough to beat his opponents in the early stages of the tournaments. You see, he was doing nothing spectacular, yet he still seemed unbeatable by all these average guys. But when it was about a really important match in the further stages of the tournament Fed really started to push things. My point is what makes a great player great is the ability not to lose games, no matter how good or focused his play was. With that being said fantasy is just fireworks and candies atm, yes, he is entertaining but that doesnt make him the best player atm.
For once i agree with disciple .
lol :D I'm actually with you on most of the things you post with the exception of the stuff about Luxury. He sucks, man  |
| | When you play the game of drones you win or you die. | |
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| raga4ka Bulgaria. May 11 2009 21:59. Posts 5042 | Profile # |
On May 11 2009 21:48 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 21:41 raga4ka wrote:
On May 11 2009 21:36 disciple wrote:
people have forgotten what makes a great player great.
hmm, really? I remember,like 2 years ago, Federer doing just enough to beat his opponents in the early stages of the tournaments. You see, he was doing nothing spectacular, yet he still seemed unbeatable by all these average guys. But when it was about a really important match in the further stages of the tournament Fed really started to push things. My point is what makes a great player great is the ability not to lose games, no matter how good or focused his play was. With that being said fantasy is just fireworks and candies atm, yes, he is entertaining but that doesnt make him the best player atm.
For once i agree with disciple .
lol :D I'm actually with you on most of the things you post with the exception of the stuff about Luxury. He sucks, man
This month he sucks , but i think he deserved his second place last month . |
| | "For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio | |
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| d(O.o)a Canada. May 11 2009 22:05. Posts 4774 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 20:51 Darth Peter wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well.
Is this a joke? Lol. |
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| Darth Peter Romania. May 11 2009 22:11. Posts 438 | Profile # |
On May 11 2009 22:05 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 20:51 Darth Peter wrote:
On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well.
Is this a joke? Lol.
He said he is not going to write the PR because of RL problems,so he will find somebody qualified. If you already knew that please tell me what was so funny about my post because my explaining in English is not the best,and if you point out what's funny,perhaps I can rephrase it.
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| samachking Bahrain. May 11 2009 22:37. Posts 4949 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 21:44 Neptuneajax wrote:
Since the last PR was post on April 10th
Jaedong has gone 7-5, with 5 of these wins in his best matchup ZvZ. He lost a ZvZ, and lost to players the caliber of ganzi and movie.
Fantasy has gone 6-2 with win over Sea and Jaedong himself, however with lossed to rising Zerg stars, Calm and Hogil
Bisu has gone 8-1 with a loss to cheese from By.Great. He be beat players the likes of Light, Calm, Zero, and Leta, all of whom have been playing very well.
Make of that what you will.....
Fantasy 8raxed Sea in his nat, granted Bisu cheesed Leta too, but has been winging and pulling things out and winning.
Also to Steve about creativity:
Isnt Leta's TvZ something more original and powerful that Fantasy ever does, and it is his own build that no one else can mimic as well. Make fun of Upmagic as much as you want, but he has helped modify Fantasy's build after incruit to create the standard TvZ build that was used last season. I am not talking about the vult harass into Valk/M&M, but the build where you go speed vults to harass and pressure into Mass Goli, few tanks. JD's new response to the mech build, the 2hat Den/Muta seems to be doing well against all of fantasy's mech variations, including the Valk/M&M build where Z counters by massing lurkers to counter. Shouldnt Jaedong get credit for providing a powerful counter for Zs to the build instead of using 3hat everytime? |
| | "And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness." |
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| Jaeden Romania. May 12 2009 00:08. Posts 1489 | Profile # |
On May 11 2009 22:37 samachking wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 21:44 Neptuneajax wrote:
Since the last PR was post on April 10th
Jaedong has gone 7-5, with 5 of these wins in his best matchup ZvZ. He lost a ZvZ, and lost to players the caliber of ganzi and movie.
Fantasy has gone 6-2 with win over Sea and Jaedong himself, however with lossed to rising Zerg stars, Calm and Hogil
Bisu has gone 8-1 with a loss to cheese from By.Great. He be beat players the likes of Light, Calm, Zero, and Leta, all of whom have been playing very well.
Make of that what you will.....
Fantasy 8raxed Sea in his nat, granted Bisu cheesed Leta too, but has been winging and pulling things out and winning. Also to Steve about creativity: Isnt Leta's TvZ something more original and powerful that Fantasy ever does, and it is his own build that no one else can mimic as well. Make fun of Upmagic as much as you want, but he has helped modify Fantasy's build after incruit to create the standard TvZ build that was used last season. I am not talking about the vult harass into Valk/M&M, but the build where you go speed vults to harass and pressure into Mass Goli, few tanks. JD's new response to the mech build, the 2hat Den/Muta seems to be doing well against all of fantasy's mech variations, including the Valk/M&M build where Z counters by massing lurkers to counter. Shouldnt Jaedong get credit for providing a powerful counter for Zs to the build instead of using 3hat everytime?
exactly
also, how is movie a bad player and hogil a rising star ?
As I've said earlier, Imho, if JD loses the #1 spot, then Bisu should take it. |
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| d(O.o)a Canada. May 12 2009 02:35. Posts 4774 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 22:11 Darth Peter wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 22:05 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:
On May 11 2009 20:51 Darth Peter wrote:
On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well.
Is this a joke? Lol.
He said he is not going to write the PR because of RL problems,so he will find somebody qualified. If you already knew that please tell me what was so funny about my post because my explaining in English is not the best,and if you point out what's funny,perhaps I can rephrase it.
You said you don't write which implies that the person does not write them IE somebody else does. He most certainly writes PR's simply not this next one. |
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| Nylan United States. May 12 2009 03:03. Posts 795 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2009 13:25 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the power rank, and not the creativity rank.
"Power?" Why is seperate from ELO then? Hmm? Because statistics alone aren't what makes a player great. |
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| Geo.Rion Hungary. May 12 2009 04:08. Posts 5354 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2009 03:03 Nylan wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 13:25 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the power rank, and not the creativity rank.
"Power?" Why is seperate from ELO then? Hmm? Because statistics alone aren't what makes a player great.
Because ELO totally ignores how they play, you can play godly without too much creativity. And the ELO ranking is way off in some cases, for example just look at Iris, he's 7th or so, and players who are on a roll in the PL aren't even in the top 10/20/30 like Hogil and many others
But this has been discussed for one million times already, Power rank does not have that much to do with ELO, and nothing to do with Kespa rankings |
| | "Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011 |
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| Darth Peter Romania. May 12 2009 05:15. Posts 438 | Profile # |
On May 12 2009 02:35 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 22:11 Darth Peter wrote:
On May 11 2009 22:05 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:
On May 11 2009 20:51 Darth Peter wrote:
On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:
On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence
Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu?
you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics.
Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well.
Is this a joke? Lol.
He said he is not going to write the PR because of RL problems,so he will find somebody qualified. If you already knew that please tell me what was so funny about my post because my explaining in English is not the best,and if you point out what's funny,perhaps I can rephrase it.
You said you don't write which implies that the person does not write them IE somebody else does. He most certainly writes PR's simply not this next one.
I meant to respond to his words that" I am glad none of you will write the next PR while I'm away", and Ia said I am glad too,because you do not write the PR. |
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