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 mikeymoo Canada. May 25 2009 05:23. Posts 7064 | Profile Blog # |
| @Tricode, although your points are valid, there are a few things you could have done to combat the bandwagon against you. Fight fire with fire. If they're bolding your name and using pretty colours, so the same back to them to show how stupid it really is to the townies. It's been said before, but even though the solution was in plain sight, the town needs somebody to step up and point out how obvious this is. I thought oczec did a really bang up job of that, personally. Even if he died, his posts would be scrutinized later, and deemed very viable. |
| | o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit | |
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 Mynock May 25 2009 05:47. Posts 4491 | Profile # |
On May 25 2009 05:20 HeavOnEarth wrote:
as a townie i must say i was pleasantly(?) surprised/ confused when mafia decided to throw the game.
After what has happened, MBH was a goner, and Showtime! has overexposed himself as well (I even promised Tricode I'd re-read all of Showtime!'s posts and find out if what he and BC did was intentional, that is, if they're Mafia). I haven't ever imagined BC as Mafia tho (same as nemY, really), too much exposure for a Mafiosi. Like I said, by that time it was MBH vs MTF, and even I would have been convinced of MTF's innocence after that. Lol, sorry for calling your clue analysis worthless MTF, just goes to show how I have no idea about clues.
Also, sorry Tricode, but even tho I really thought you were green all the way (as I told u in PMs), lynching you would still have been a good sacrifice, because we'd get to both Showtime! and BC  . You played good tho, even when accused, from your defense you looked completely innocent, it's just that PM blunder that got you screwed. By comparison, 0cz's defense was utter insanity, I didn't even bother to read any of it, because it made my eyes bleed after the first 10 lines. He could have cleared himself pretty calmly and convincingly, but he basically dug his own grave there. |
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| Mynock May 25 2009 05:49. Posts 4491 | Profile # |
On May 25 2009 05:23 mikeymoo wrote:
@Tricode, although your points are valid, there are a few things you could have done to combat the bandwagon against you. Fight fire with fire. If they're bolding your name and using pretty colours, so the same back to them to show how stupid it really is to the townies. It's been said before, but even though the solution was in plain sight, the town needs somebody to step up and point out how obvious this is. I thought oczec did a really bang up job of that, personally. Even if he died, his posts would be scrutinized later, and deemed very viable.
Lol, personally, I found it completely opposite. 0cz was raving and made no sense whatsoever, he only made me think he's guilty (hence I voted for him). I always thought Tricode was innocent, and after his defense I was almost 100% sure he is (hence I didn't vote for him), but that PM thing had to be cleared up eventually. |
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| MTF United States. May 25 2009 06:07. Posts 1738 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 03:11 Showtime! wrote:
No, it wasn't 'bud.' We had good clue analysis and behaviour analysis. I'm just going to stop it right here because I know how piss poor you are at defending yourself.
EDIT: It was a team effort. Who do you think helped put that shit together in the first place?
There's a reason why I make most of my 'plays' behind the scenes.
Though I think you guys had an argument for Tricode based on behavioral analysis, you really didn't have good clue analysis tying him to anything. As I said in my response to BC when all of this was going down, all the clues that were being attached to Tricode were scattered amongst different Mafia, when the clue format was clearly separated by individuals. For the clues to be solid, they'd need to all be tied to a single person.
When you find one person everywhere you look, it is evident that you aren't looking for suspects, you're just looking to pin that one person. But, because of PM conversations and what I'm guessing was largely an effort to tie Tricode to as many clues as possible because he looked possibly dirty in behavior, a lot of people who probably should've known better spread the vote thin for town side. |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 25 2009 06:12. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 06:07 MTF wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 03:11 Showtime! wrote:
No, it wasn't 'bud.' We had good clue analysis and behaviour analysis. I'm just going to stop it right here because I know how piss poor you are at defending yourself.
EDIT: It was a team effort. Who do you think helped put that shit together in the first place?
There's a reason why I make most of my 'plays' behind the scenes.
Though I think you guys had an argument for Tricode based on behavioral analysis, you really didn't have good clue analysis tying him to anything. As I said in my response to BC when all of this was going down, all the clues that were being attached to Tricode were scattered amongst different Mafia, when the clue format was clearly separated by individuals. For the clues to be solid, they'd need to all be tied to a single person.
 you should have pushed that. I completely bet on the town's doing quick skims of what i wrote/seeing a name bolded multiple times. Its like "oh wow if hes linked to 5 clues hes gotta be linked right to one of them"
It was a cheap trick that I was hoping would work but didn't think it would, but in the end it didnt matter. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| L Canada. May 25 2009 08:56. Posts 4546 | Profile Blog # |
Yeah, town activity just fucking dropped off a cliff day 3. You guys had a WALL of information staring you in the face.
Then again, when you have a player like tricode making himself an obvious quickstriker-like retard target... |
| | The number you have dialed is out of porkchops. |
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| Incognito United States. May 25 2009 09:01. Posts 2058 | Profile # |
Sigh. The end of game comments. The time where everyone yells about how they knew X and Y were mafia and how Z was MVP because he guessed correctly that X and Y were mafia...
A while ago (don't remember when, but I think it was after a game where mafia got completely destroyed), we discussed how most people didn't know how to play mafia well. Well, now that's kinda different. People know how to play mafia decently, they don't know how to play town well. Seriously all of this "I knew X and Y were mafia from day 2" BS doesn't matter if nobody can trust you as town. The yelling and other chaotic tactics employed by L/0cz3c/Ace don't help the town either. This style behavior makes it fairly easy for them to hide when they are in fact mafia. The ambiguity and chaos caused does not help the town.
Its not the town's responsibility to figure out what you're really trying to say. Its not the town's responsibility to "read objectively". The only reason you'd have to post emotionally is when you're mafia. Its not your job to be right then act strangely arrogantly just because you are right. Its your job to make the town think you're innocent, then proceed accordingly. I think that people like Ace play this game simply to prove that they are right. They yell a lot, get themselves lynched, then yell back at the town saying how they suck and that they were too blind to see what was in front of them...It doesn't help at all. All it gives them is bragging rights to tell the town how they were right all along and that the town is stupid. At the point where you start bulldogging you might as well be dead. They are useless to you alive. Nobody will or wants to or even should listen to you KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW at that point. Of course in retrospect you can yell at them and say how they suck, but it makes no sense when AT THE MOMENT you are just bringing suspicion onto yourself and not helping the town.
A lot of townies did not do their job to make it clear that they were town aligned. I won't mention names but seriously you can't expect to construct poor defense, appear out of nowhere with accusations, and yell when there are better things you can be doing to help the town. Painting yourself as a target does not help the town at all. A townie's first job is not to find mafia. It is to make sure that he looks like a townie. Otherwise looking for mafia is hopeless. A lot of townies made themselves very suspicious. Mafia capitalized on this fact. As a rule, concern yourself with taking care of your own role before looking at other people's roles. |
| | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy |
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| Incognito United States. May 25 2009 09:14. Posts 2058 | Profile # |
| Also what did you guys think about the mandatory voting? Seems to me it didn't help activity all that much, it just made people more suspicious even if they were town. *cough* camlito *cough* plexa... |
| | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy |
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| MTF United States. May 25 2009 09:19. Posts 1738 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 09:14 Incognito wrote:
Also what did you guys think about the mandatory voting? Seems to me it didn't help activity all that much, it just made people more suspicious even if they were town. *cough* camlito *cough* plexa...
It was a good feature. It makes sure that nobody can hide among inactives and, well, eliminates those who are actually inactive. Whether that makes quiet townies suspicious or not is something that can be dealt with by individual case. Allowing people to be inactive is not acceptable, though.
It supports a simple concept. You shouldn't be signing up if you aren't going to be playing the game. |
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| Qatol United States. May 25 2009 10:00. Posts 3010 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 09:14 Incognito wrote:
Also what did you guys think about the mandatory voting? Seems to me it didn't help activity all that much, it just made people more suspicious even if they were town. *cough* camlito *cough* plexa...
I liked it because it showed that people weren't 100% inactive. I mean, Amber was still able to hide among the mostly inactive townies, so maybe the requirements need to be raised a bit, but I think it was a good start. |
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| Ace United States. May 25 2009 10:27. Posts 13549 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 09:01 Incognito wrote:
Sigh. The end of game comments. The time where everyone yells about how they knew X and Y were mafia and how Z was MVP because he guessed correctly that X and Y were mafia...
A while ago (don't remember when, but I think it was after a game where mafia got completely destroyed), we discussed how most people didn't know how to play mafia well. Well, now that's kinda different. People know how to play mafia decently, they don't know how to play town well. Seriously all of this "I knew X and Y were mafia from day 2" BS doesn't matter if nobody can trust you as town. The yelling and other chaotic tactics employed by L/0cz3c/Ace don't help the town either. This style behavior makes it fairly easy for them to hide when they are in fact mafia. The ambiguity and chaos caused does not help the town.
Its not the town's responsibility to figure out what you're really trying to say. Its not the town's responsibility to "read objectively". The only reason you'd have to post emotionally is when you're mafia. Its not your job to be right then act strangely arrogantly just because you are right. Its your job to make the town think you're innocent, then proceed accordingly. I think that people like Ace play this game simply to prove that they are right. They yell a lot, get themselves lynched, then yell back at the town saying how they suck and that they were too blind to see what was in front of them...It doesn't help at all. All it gives them is bragging rights to tell the town how they were right all along and that the town is stupid. At the point where you start bulldogging you might as well be dead. They are useless to you alive. Nobody will or wants to or even should listen to you KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW at that point. Of course in retrospect you can yell at them and say how they suck, but it makes no sense when AT THE MOMENT you are just bringing suspicion onto yourself and not helping the town.
A lot of townies did not do their job to make it clear that they were town aligned. I won't mention names but seriously you can't expect to construct poor defense, appear out of nowhere with accusations, and yell when there are better things you can be doing to help the town. Painting yourself as a target does not help the town at all. A townie's first job is not to find mafia. It is to make sure that he looks like a townie. Otherwise looking for mafia is hopeless. A lot of townies made themselves very suspicious. Mafia capitalized on this fact. As a rule, concern yourself with taking care of your own role before looking at other people's roles.
I don't know what you said but considering it's the longest post you have in this thread I'm sure it's pretty useless.
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| | No sir I fully get it, however unless I can unlaunch my nuke there is not much we can do about it. I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! - RebirthofLegend in WaW Mafia |
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 HeavOnEarth United States. May 25 2009 10:32. Posts 6627 | Profile Blog # |
also i just realized that its impossible to use unit icons because they can change easily
-fail |
| | "come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean" |
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| Mynock May 25 2009 10:41. Posts 4491 | Profile # |
On May 25 2009 10:32 HeavOnEarth wrote:
also i just realized that its impossible to use unit icons because they can change easily
-fail
When I saw people trying to tie clues to icons I said to myself "lolol, Mafia is so desperate!"
If I had known this were actually Townies...  |
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| Ace United States. May 25 2009 10:43. Posts 13549 | Profile Blog # |
| lol it's ok Mynock. Someone is going to make another post blaming someone else for why they played like shit and of course, not mention the retard "clues" they believed in. |
| | No sir I fully get it, however unless I can unlaunch my nuke there is not much we can do about it. I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! - RebirthofLegend in WaW Mafia |
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| Qatol United States. May 25 2009 10:45. Posts 3010 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 10:41 Mynock wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 10:32 HeavOnEarth wrote:
also i just realized that its impossible to use unit icons because they can change easily
-fail
When I saw people trying to tie clues to icons I said to myself "lolol, Mafia is so desperate!" If I had known this were actually Townies...
Yep. I never even considered using unit icons for clues. The only icons I see as fair game are staff or ex-staff special icons. |
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| Tricode United States. May 25 2009 10:45. Posts 538 | Profile # |
On May 25 2009 08:56 L wrote:
Yeah, town activity just fucking dropped off a cliff day 3. You guys had a WALL of information staring you in the face.
Then again, when you have a player like tricode making himself an obvious quickstriker-like retard target...
Why do you even speak?
Please man up and just say you screwed up in the game and stop trying to point fingers by saying I was the stupid one.
I don't know why you keep trying to make me look stupid. You have hardly anyone agreeing with you.
So I request you please stop. |
| | 1, 2, he is coming for you. Kill the C0bbler! |
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| Incognito United States. May 25 2009 10:47. Posts 2058 | Profile # |
| People always ignore what they did wrong and tell others that they're pointing fingers. It gets us nowhere. |
| | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy |
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| Malongo Chile. May 25 2009 10:50. Posts 2787 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 10:47 Incognito wrote:
People always ignore what they did wrong and tell others that they're pointing fingers. It gets us nowhere.
I love how a DT got the other DT scared enough to roleclaim. |
| | Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G. | |
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| Incognito United States. May 25 2009 10:52. Posts 2058 | Profile # |
On May 25 2009 10:50 Malongo wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 10:47 Incognito wrote:
People always ignore what they did wrong and tell others that they're pointing fingers. It gets us nowhere.
I love how a DT got the other DT scared enough to roleclaim.
??? |
| | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy |
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| Qatol United States. May 25 2009 10:55. Posts 3010 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2009 10:52 Incognito wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 10:50 Malongo wrote:
On May 25 2009 10:47 Incognito wrote:
People always ignore what they did wrong and tell others that they're pointing fingers. It gets us nowhere.
I love how a DT got the other DT scared enough to roleclaim.
???
Your PM calling nemY out as a blue which scared him into roleclaiming. And yes, this was a very enjoyable part of the game for LTT and myself. |
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