Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Chat
irc.quakenet.org #teamliquid
IRC Web ClientTeamSpeak 3 (77 users) | |
|
| Ideas United States. May 16 2009 03:19. Posts 7428 | Profile Blog # |
I like this PR a lot. I hate Bisu but I have to admit that he's looking more unstoppable than any other player right now. Personally I would change switch JD and Zero just because I feel that JD is the better player even if his results haven't been as great (although I acknowledge that PR is based more on results so I guess that's why I'm not doing it). I would prob put effort lower in the rank and bump up skyhigh and flash, and replace thezerg with calm. In Calm's last 15 games he has only lost 4, including his lost to bisu and 2 ZvZs. If he could only get his ZvZ a little better I think he can be considered better than Zero. His ZvT and ZvP are much better than Zero's already.
and lol man I just realized Bisu is the only protoss in the PR. Man wtf happened to all the protoss players?!Last edit: 2009-05-16 03:22:59 |
| | BW is the only esport. gogo STX/Bogus/Calm/Jaedong/Kal/MINI |  |
|
|
 JWD United States. May 16 2009 03:24. Posts 12566 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2009 03:18 tfeign wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 16 2009 03:15 JWD wrote:
On May 16 2009 03:14 tfeign wrote:
On May 16 2009 00:00 JWD wrote:I want to address your post first because it's a lot nicer than the others in this thread  . I'm going to keep it short because I think I've already written nearly everything I'd like to write about Zero vs. Jaedong - check out my comment towards the top of page 4 of this thread for an explanation which I think will address the core of the argument you presented in your post here (seems to be "JD hasn't fallen off nearly enough to be in 4th position this month"). The jist is that, while JD is still a monster and his 5 recent losses do not say much about his odds in all of the bazillion SLs he's still alive in, they're still five losses - that's three more than ZerO who, I should remind you, just 4-0d into the OSL Ro16, is alive in GOM, and a MSL seed (how many people can say they're alive in 3 leagues? Not many...ZerO is one too though ^^).
Are you seriously trying to say that THREE more losses in offseason games is enough to consider Zero the new best player?
See the post two above yours.
The power rank is NOT about who has the best last month in Starcraft. If that's what you solely use to determine players in the power rank, then you are wrong again.
It's almost comical that you're willing to speak in such absolute terms about the underlying premise for something that you did not write. Here's a proposition: I wrote this Power Rank, and that gives me the right do determine what it is based on (within reason).
You've come into this thread, claimed the Power Rank is based on criteria which differ from the criteria which I had in mind when I wrote it, and then criticized my ranking based on your claimed criteria. Do you realize how ridiculous that is?
Here's an exaggerated example to help: I decide to rank gamers according to the sexiness of their haircuts. You come along and tell me that my PR is garbage because gamers should be ranked according to the sexiness of their wardrobes, and then proceed to criticize my ranking based on the fact that the 4th-ranked player has a sexier wardrobe than the 3rd-ranked player.Last edit: 2009-05-16 03:31:35 |
| | ✌ |  |
|
|
 Chill Canada. May 16 2009 03:27. Posts 25253 | Profile Blog # |
I can't edit the names, I can only add new players with different names and link them back to the same TLPD page, if you get what I'm rambling about. My worry is that the PR will interprit these two sets of players different and screw up the Last/Change fields.
So basically, we need Bob or Zatic or R1CH to rename them to Fantasy, Flash, and TheZerg. |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=275302¤tpage=225#4490 |  |
|
|
|
| TwoToneTerran United States. May 16 2009 03:29. Posts 7990 | Profile # |
Can't find anything else that wasn't what you posited to me already on the Zero vs Jaedong argument. I can't do anything but disagree with it because it just seems so obviously wrong.
You're doing this completely differently from the way Steve usually does and that does feel a bit jarring. Can't change a Power Rank, though, so I guess I'll cope. I believe you're wrong and it looks almost incendiary for incendiary's sake to put Zero over Jaedong (just look at Zero's entry, eee), because I don't think anyone in the world could rightly say anyone but Jaedong is the king of zergs, but that doesn't seem to be close to your criteria. Can't fight City Hall.Last edit: 2009-05-16 03:32:08 |
| | Remember Violet. |  |
|
|
| tfeign United States. May 16 2009 03:33. Posts 2976 | Profile # |
On May 16 2009 03:24 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 16 2009 03:18 tfeign wrote:
The power rank is NOT about who has the best last month in Starcraft. If that's what you solely use to determine players in the power rank, then you are wrong again.
It's almost comical that you're willing to speak in such absolute terms about something which is clearly subjective and you have absolutely no control over. Here's a proposition: I wrote this Power Rank, and that gives me the right do determine what it is based on (within reason). You've come into this thread, claimed the Power Rank is based on criteria which differ from the criteria which I had in mind when I wrote it, and then criticized my ranking based on your claimed criteria. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Here's an exaggerated example to help: I decide to rank gamers according to the sexiness of their haircuts. You come along and tell me that my PR is garbage because gamers should be ranked according to the sexiness of their wardrobes, and then proceed to criticize my ranking based on the fact that the 4th-ranked player has a sexier wardrobe than the 3rd-ranked player.
The criteria of the PR has never been in question. I'm telling you that solely and exclusively using the last month of Starcraft results alone to determine players in the power rank is not how it should be. It has never been what the PR is, and it will never be accepted by readers.
People want to know the who are the best players, that's why the PR was created, and the only reason why the PR was created. The PR was not made to list who has the best stats in the last month of Starcraft.Last edit: 2009-05-16 03:35:47 |
|
|
| Mogwai United States. May 16 2009 03:41. Posts 8013 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2009 03:33 tfeign wrote:
The criteria of the PR has never been in question. I'm telling you that solely and exclusively using the last month of Starcraft results alone to determine players in the power rank is not how it should be. It has never been what the PR is, and it will never be accepted by readers.
People want to know the who are the best players, that's why the PR was created. The PR was not made to list who has the best stats in the last month of Starcraft.
lol, dude, seriously?
I've only been paying attention to teamliquid for about half a year, but I can tell you that the criteria of the PR has always been in question for every single one of those days that I've payed attention to it. I mean, seriously just check like, January and February of this year and July of last year and the comments on them.
This (the TL in general, not this month specifically) power rank clearly falls into the "slightly subjective ranking of good progamers that the ranker feels like writing about" category of power ranks. Sure, this makes it more controversial, but it's ultimately more fun and interesting than something that is point driven like Kespa rankings where there is nothing that needs to be said about the ordering as the numbers speak for themselves.Last edit: 2009-05-16 03:42:30 |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |  |
|
|
| tedster May 16 2009 03:44. Posts 897 | Profile # |
On May 16 2009 03:29 TwoToneTerran wrote:
because I don't think anyone in the world could rightly say anyone but Jaedong is the king of zergs, but that doesn't seem to be close to your criteria. Can't fight City Hall.
No one is saying that and you're absolutely blind to this fact. You are coming off as ignorant and incendiary, and while it's great that you choose to make your arguments without any regard for what the other side says it would still be nice if you'd tone it down a bit and at least pretend to pay attention to what people are laying out.
Power Rankings have nothing to do with who is the "KIND OF ZERG" or any of that pointless crap. Yes, we know JD is the all-around best zerg in the game these days, that's no surprise and it doesn't change from month to month.
What does change is which zerg is playing the most aggressively, displaying the best game sense, doing the most with the current map rotation, elevating his game time after time, and winning the most important games. And if you're arguing that has been JD in the last month or so, you're objectively lying. ZerO is the zerg who is playing the best RIGHT NOW, and this should be apparent to anyone who has been watching games.
Power Rank is not a measure of the best record, or most tournament wins or who is on the best team (thezerg, watch your 10th place rank closely), it is a measure of who is playing the very best in the time leading up to the ranking. Just because most of the games between rankings have been PL doesn't mean the results don't matter - hell, if they didn't, the old PR would still be in effect and we'd only get an update 2-3 times a year. |
| |
|
| revoluti0nX United States. May 16 2009 03:45. Posts 61 | Profile # |
| wait, kespa's not a progamer |
| | With great mustache comes great responsibility. |
|
|
| JWD United States. May 16 2009 03:46. Posts 12566 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2009 03:33 tfeign wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 16 2009 03:24 JWD wrote:
On May 16 2009 03:18 tfeign wrote:
The power rank is NOT about who has the best last month in Starcraft. If that's what you solely use to determine players in the power rank, then you are wrong again.
It's almost comical that you're willing to speak in such absolute terms about something which is clearly subjective and you have absolutely no control over. Here's a proposition: I wrote this Power Rank, and that gives me the right do determine what it is based on (within reason). You've come into this thread, claimed the Power Rank is based on criteria which differ from the criteria which I had in mind when I wrote it, and then criticized my ranking based on your claimed criteria. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Here's an exaggerated example to help: I decide to rank gamers according to the sexiness of their haircuts. You come along and tell me that my PR is garbage because gamers should be ranked according to the sexiness of their wardrobes, and then proceed to criticize my ranking based on the fact that the 4th-ranked player has a sexier wardrobe than the 3rd-ranked player.
The criteria of the PR has never been in question. I'm telling you that solely and exclusively using the last month of Starcraft results alone to determine players in the power rank is not how it should be. It has never been what the PR is, and it will never be accepted by readers. People want to know the who are the best players, that's why the PR was created, and the only reason why the PR was created. The PR was not made to list who has the best stats in the last month of Starcraft.
Watch your absolutes. I am not "solely and exclusively using the last month of SC results alone", and I've already covered that several times.
Just saying "the PR was created because people want to know who the best players are" is too simplistic. You need a timeframe - otherwise, every PR would include Boxer, Savior, and iloveoov ("the best players" ever). Because the PR is a monthly affair, the natural thing to do is to set that timeframe to one month. Once again: that's not to say, though, that I think results from previous months should be totally ignored - just substantially downplayed vs. more recent results.
I'm obviously aware that I don't have the reputation of, say, Mani or FS here at TL. This only furthered my desire to slightly change the PR's basis - while Mani or FS might be able to get away with posting the PR as what they think the results of a Bo99999 ladder between every pro SC player would look like (not that they have, this is a hypothetical for argument's sake), I surely wouldn't. Nobody wants to read "some guy"'s opinion of who the scariest progamers are right now, so to make the PR informative and relevant I figured I would need to make its focus a bit more concrete. By stressing recent results I feel like I made the PR worth reading, if only as a refresher on the major trends in individual skill over the past month of SC. Whether you disagree with my rank, I think you have to concede that it would have been a hell of a lot less useful if I wrote it with less focus on recent results and more on my abstract sense of "who is better" at SC right now.Last edit: 2009-05-16 03:50:53 |
| | ✌ | |
|
|
 Last Romantic United States. May 16 2009 03:50. Posts 20146 | Profile Blog # |
It is supposed to be based heavily, if not entirely, on performance within the last month.
Though maybe tfeign would like to see ChOJJa up there?
I largely agree with this rank, though I feel Jaedong gets shortchanged somewhat. |
| | ㅋㄲㅈㅁ It's not four straight wins, it's 2^2 wins in a row for ACE - DCinside | |
|
|
| Shikyo Finland. May 16 2009 03:58. Posts 20141 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2009 13:14 Plexa wrote:
Everyone around here knows that I am probably the largest anti-fan of Hwaesung on the planet, and probably top 10 anti-jaedong. But even I cannot understand how Jaedong slips from #1 to #4 in the space of a month. What exactly has Jaedong done to slip this far? Well he lost a game to Ganzi, Movie, fantasy and Hyvaa while destroying everyone else in existence. Indeed, he destroyed Ganzi in their next encounter, and finished movie off in the next two game.
Jaedong's play as of this exact moment is as sharp as ever and I would expect him to defeat Fantasy and Zero (and probably bisu) on any given day of the week based off their current skills. Bisu hasn't done anything too fantastic to claim #1, just won his proleague games bashing a bunch of average gamers (bar leta and zero) in games that weren't exactly spectacular. Fantasy has done nothing really to claim #2 - losing to Calm and Hogil and beating a bunch of scrubs (and Jaedong).
And as much as I love Zero, in no way is he deserving of being called #3 at this point - he's probably top 5, but top 3 is a bit too much. Imo
1) Jaedong
2) Bisu
3) Fantasy
4) Zero
This is actually the best post in the entire thread. I think Plexa should try making the PR next time so that it'd actually make sense. |
| | "I shall wait for you in death's halls, my Love (love love love love~)" | |
|
|
| Wurzelbrumpft Germany. May 16 2009 04:10. Posts 471 | Profile Blog # |
someone with a zvt ratio of 43% wins shouldnt be so high. and its not like it has recently gotten way better, he got his ass kicked by Leta, he won the 2games before that, but those were on battle royal and gods garden..the last zvt before that was against oov in february and he lost that one.
hes just extremeley lucky he didnt run into any terran yet in any league |
| | beam me up scotty, this planet suxX |
|
|
| revolover Canada. May 16 2009 04:48. Posts 134 | Profile # |
Ok, JWD might be a SKT fanboy, but this time it's totally correct. Nice PR, I like.
I agree with ZerO's placement. His OSL games were amazing, AND he's solid in PLLast edit: 2009-05-16 05:21:37 |
| |
|
| Jaeden Romania. May 16 2009 04:48. Posts 1489 | Profile # |
On May 16 2009 03:44 tedster wrote:
ZerO is the zerg who is playing the best RIGHT NOW, and this should be apparent to anyone who has been watching games.
no he's not.
I`m not goin` into any more details coz it's useless  |
| | Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control" | |
|
|
| JohnBall Brazil. May 16 2009 04:50. Posts 1264 | Profile # |
Worst power rank ever!
Maybe we should just leave Bisu on spot number 1 as default since he doesn't have to do anything to be there. |
| | Perfecting the Art of Five Pool for Ten Years | |
|
|
| imperfect Canada. May 16 2009 04:55. Posts 1635 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2009 04:50 JohnBall wrote:
Worst power rank ever!
Maybe we should just leave Bisu on spot number 1 as default since he doesn't have to do anything to be there.
why? i thought this was a decent PR.
There's really no OSL or MSL performances to go by as its still in its early stages where there's still a lot of players that are being weeded out. it should be based on proleague, and bisu has been doing pretty good there.
i was a bit surprised with fantasy though
and zero over jaedong |
| | blind bisu free and anytime fanboy. |  |
|
|
| Crunchums United States. May 16 2009 04:58. Posts 10376 | Profile Blog # |
I haven't read this thread and I'm sure infinity people have already said this, but:
Zero over Jaedong??? |
| | brood war for life, brood war forever | |
|
|
Kentor  United States. May 16 2009 05:00. Posts 5776 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2009 04:50 JohnBall wrote:
Worst power rank ever!
Maybe we should just leave Bisu on spot number 1 as default since he doesn't have to do anything to be there.
lol HUGE Oz troll
On May 16 2009 04:58 Crunchums wrote:
I haven't read this thread and I'm sure infinity people have already said this, but:
Zero over Jaedong???
well then read the threadLast edit: 2009-05-16 05:02:03 |
| |
|
| Insaniae Norway. May 16 2009 05:39. Posts 1 | Profile # |
Kentor you should also read something. E.g. last ten fantasys and JDs games. Tho we all know that FakeS is a gr8 fantasy fan. I can accept that anyway, but ZerO over JD is funnier than KESPA. Obviously that doesn't count but every player is an underdog vs JD in a bo5 series, no metter if it's ZerO, Fantasy or Bisu.
Lets be honest. The real Power rank is:
1. Bisu / Jaedong
Long Long nothing
Fantasy
Long nothing
ZerO
And again:
On May 15 2009 13:14 Plexa wrote:
Everyone around here knows that I am probably the largest anti-fan of Hwaesung on the planet, and probably top 10 anti-jaedong. But even I cannot understand how Jaedong slips from #1 to #4 in the space of a month. What exactly has Jaedong done to slip this far? Well he lost a game to Ganzi, Movie, fantasy and Hyvaa while destroying everyone else in existence. Indeed, he destroyed Ganzi in their next encounter, and finished movie off in the next two game.
Jaedong's play as of this exact moment is as sharp as ever and I would expect him to defeat Fantasy and Zero (and probably bisu) on any given day of the week based off their current skills. Bisu hasn't done anything too fantastic to claim #1, just won his proleague games bashing a bunch of average gamers (bar leta and zero) in games that weren't exactly spectacular. Fantasy has done nothing really to claim #2 - losing to Calm and Hogil and beating a bunch of scrubs (and Jaedong).
And as much as I love Zero, in no way is he deserving of being called #3 at this point - he's probably top 5, but top 3 is a bit too much. Imo
1) Jaedong
2) Bisu
3) Fantasy
4) Zero
Just think FakeStivie. Are you sure you would bet on Fantasy playing vs Jae? I will take the bet if you want.Last edit: 2009-05-16 05:43:17 |
|
|
| Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 Next All | |
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
