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A History of Terran vs. Zerg - Page 6

Forum Index > Brood War 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 All
 
 Letmelose   Korea (South). May 31 2009 16:17. Posts 643
Profile Blog # 

Translator's notes:
1) I found it unclear what the author meant by 3 gas Hive during Ma Jae Yoon's era that ended with Kim Jun Yeong's Starleague win, because the 3 gas muta to Hive build is still being used today. It might be either a 3 gas Hive rush, which Ma Jae Yoon was fond of doing, or simply the same build as today used on less favorable maps (Longi+ReTem era).



I'm not sure if I'm qualified to explain, but I'll try anyways. It's because the battle between "standard" three hatchery opening and "standard" single barrack into fast expansion resulted in a complete and utter defeat for the zergs. After terrans readjusted the fast expansion build to incorporate fast +1 attack to minimize the effect of the relatively late 3 hatchery mutalisk harass - and learned how to deal with zerg hive play by keeping the main army alive (therefore keeping control of the centre) and delaying the 4th gas for zergs (which keeps ultralisks out of the picture) while constantly getting the better end of the deal with well upgraded marines and mass vessels - zergs were basically done for.

The 3 hatchery opening, with flexible larva count and high drone count, gave zergs a head start against terrans who were unable to counter it successfully at the time. Mutalisk harass and hive play were secondary at the time when the build was in its infancy. Like it is explained by the author of the article, the 3 hatchery play has evolved a lot, and so did the standard FE play by the terrans. The 3 hatchery play of Savior (the progamer central to this story) in 2005, 2006 and 2007 are all different. He constantly had to change his style in order to stay ahead of terrans who were coping with his style better and better.

But with terrans no longer spazzing out to defiler play, and with zergs unable to get map control even after defiler usage, 3 hatchery play popularized by Savior met its demise. GGPlay was the last zerg to profit from the 3 hatchery management (in fact, there is almost no difference in GGPlay's 3 hatchery play in Daum OSL and standard 3 hatchery play now almost two years on). Even though 3 hatchery management is still used today, it has lost a lot of value as the mainstream play in ZvT. The 2 hatchery play didn't get popularized without a reason - 3 hatchery evolution came to a dead end sometime around Daum OSL. With terrans knowing the exact counter to it by the very second, zergs were forced to find another way.
Last edit: 2009-05-31 16:20:19
Old Post

 
 Osmoses   Sweden. May 31 2009 17:14. Posts 2631
Profile Blog # 
Great read. Everyone loves a good graph.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Old Post

 
 Pokernubz   Canada. May 31 2009 18:37. Posts 88
Profile # 
Great read, just about as epic as watching an epic ZVT
Lee Jae Dong! Phil Ivey! Lee Young-Ho! Tom Dwan!
Old Post

 
 azndsh   United States. May 31 2009 20:26. Posts 4252
Profile Blog # 
man this was awesome

prediction: we're going to start seeing hydra breaks zvt next at this rate
Last edit: 2009-05-31 20:27:16
 
Old Post

 
 KrisElmqvist   Sweden. May 31 2009 21:14. Posts 1951
Profile Blog # 
is it just me that thinks naming programers with their real names in post likes this is quite irritating, since everyone who is not hardcore, but still interested, is selectivelly excluded from knowing what the hell OP is speaking about what so ever??
http://www.soundcloud.com/kristofferelmqvist
Old Post

 
 StRyKeR   United States. May 31 2009 22:54. Posts 1613
Profile Blog # 

On May 31 2009 21:14 Starparty wrote:
is it just me that thinks naming programers with their real names in post likes this is quite irritating, since everyone who is not hardcore, but still interested, is selectivelly excluded from knowing what the hell OP is speaking about what so ever??


I wanted to stay true to the original post. However, I have put their handles in parentheses after the names' first mention
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Old Post

 
 Skeggaba   Korea (South). June 01 2009 00:01. Posts 1509
Profile Blog # 
This article is amazing - the person who wrote it must be a HUGE nerd. And i like nerds.
Thanks for the translation!
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
Old Post

  OmgIRok   Taiwan. June 01 2009 01:12. Posts 2699Profile Blog # 
Great article + translation!

Just goes to show how StarCraft is forever changing, and excites me because of the fact that there will be more TvZ imbalances going, which might lead to new BO's, strats, etc.
"Wanna join my [combo] clan?" "We play turret d competitively"
Old Post

 
 Polyphasic   United States. June 01 2009 01:51. Posts 841
Profile Blog # 
koreans read this all day? no wonder they dominate in strategy
can't making a relationship last longer than 2 weeks, since 1984 :thumbs:
Old Post

 
 Polyphasic   United States. June 01 2009 01:54. Posts 841
Profile Blog # 

On May 31 2009 14:18 Zzoram wrote:
When did muta clumping first show up in Pro Starcraft? Is there a VOD of the first televised muta control game? It must have been shocking.


yes i would like to know this as well.

i believe the first person to use this in a pro match might have been julyzerg.

but it was probably perfected much later by other zergs.

julyzerg's TvZ when he started using stack mutas was monster. the terrans had no idea what was going on, and his mutas would just go in and slaughter marines and scvs like they were bnet noobs. no missile turrets, just marines running around like idiots. so fun to watch.
can't making a relationship last longer than 2 weeks, since 1984 :thumbs:
Old Post

 
 danieldrsa   Brazil. June 01 2009 02:17. Posts 516
Profile # 
im still an ignorant in Starcraft, so i can be saying bullshit,
but that is the best article ive read here in TL since 2007
danieldrsa
Old Post

 
 Night[Mare   Mexico. June 01 2009 02:20. Posts 4793
Profile Blog # 

On May 29 2009 10:54 Last Romantic wrote:
This article was very cool :D Or maybe I just like history.


it's amazing how fast terran comes with an answer to zerg builds, hence, 60% or more of the time T winrate vs zerg is above 60%.

also, i agree with LR
Teamliquidian townie
Old Post

 
 GogoKodo   Canada. June 01 2009 04:37. Posts 1589
Profile Blog # 
I don't have a chance to read through all this now but I got through a little and it's pretty interesting.
Nice work with the translation, thanks.
twitter: @terrancem
Old Post

 
 iNcontroL  *   USA. June 01 2009 05:00. Posts 28389
Profile Blog # 
really nice article
@EGiNcontroL
Old Post

 
 Tuke   Finland. June 01 2009 05:03. Posts 1640
Profile # 
Awesome article, thx for this
TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #42 EffOrt, Snow <3
Old Post

 
 QuoC   United States. June 01 2009 05:14. Posts 724
Profile Blog # 
unbelievably complicated..
i hope whoever's doing this is getting paid 0_o
Dario "TLO" Wünsch -- Favorite SC2 Player
Old Post

 
 Torenhire   United States. June 01 2009 05:46. Posts 9299
Profile Blog # 
Awesome!
#1 Shuttle // LuckyFool // Memory // STX SouL Fan!! Go Liquid + nth!! Torenhire Starleague - the ESPORTS community will spin head so fast like Exorcist.
Old Post

  Eniram   Sudan. June 01 2009 07:23. Posts 3166Profile Blog # 
TO OP: Imagine the things you could accomplish if you devoted this effort elsewhere.
You can like take a newb to like water, but you cant like make a newb drink. Ya know? - Jeremy
Old Post

 
 funnybananaman   United States. June 01 2009 08:13. Posts 631
Profile # 
very interesting article, although i think it would be greatly improved with a section about TvZ history dating back to the boxer vs yellow days. but when i think starcraft, tvz is the classic matchup in my opinion.
Get on JST
Old Post

 
 Zzoram   Canada. June 01 2009 19:23. Posts 6758
Profile # 
What is the oldest VOD available with muta micro? Anyone know? I'd like to watch it. Even if it isn't the first instance of it, I'd still like to see how it was handled in it's infancy.
 
Old Post

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