 SiGurD Korea (South). June 30 2009 21:45. Posts 413 | Profile |
| Really nice read! sweet imo |
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 mutantmagnet United States. June 30 2009 22:13. Posts 27 | Profile |
Before this report I was speculating that with the changes made PvP would feel a lot more like TvT from the Broodwar days and TvT has evolved even more to include barracks units in the soft counter mix.
My only concern is that Immortals would break Protoss ability to have fun games like this.
Did you see any of the races having dynamic build order games in same race match ups like old school TvT? If so what could be the reason some races are struggling to have that type of exciting game? |
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 zatic Germany. June 30 2009 22:31. Posts 2813 | Profile Blog |
What do you mean by dynamic build order games?
About PvP and TvT, and mirrors generally: Unfortunately they seem rather boring now, except maybe TvT.
ZvZ is all Tier1, no reason to get muta. It's all roaches. PvP is boring as hell because there are no reavers anymore. It's just massing units and even more units.
TvT is a bit different. There is basically only 1 opening, marauders, because marauders are the only counter Terran has to marauders. But from then on it's much more dynamic with medivacs in the game. Basically it's infantry / medivac fights. Again, I don't see viable Terran factory builds. |
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 beetlelisk Poland. June 30 2009 22:42. Posts 639 | Profile |
Thank You for great article and answers |
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 minus_human Romania. June 30 2009 22:58. Posts 3165 | Profile Blog |
| Thanks Zatic, this was really great |
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| -visnu- Australia. June 30 2009 23:02. Posts 14 | Profile |
zatic, ur mad son.
that was just so much fun reading, it was as if i was writing it.
+1!
on topic. I think we just need to send this blog to Blizzard or get them to have a read.
the micro is the essence of higher levels of play. |
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 Nyovne Netherlands. June 30 2009 23:03. Posts 4292 | Profile | |
| | For remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken. | |
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 Tritanis Poland. June 30 2009 23:08. Posts 177 | Profile |
On June 30 2009 22:31 zatic wrote:
ZvZ is all Tier1, no reason to get muta. It's all roaches. PvP is boring as hell because there are no reavers anymore. It's just massing units and even more units.
From what I saw in the latest tech tree, roaches are lair tech.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/FrozenArbiter/zerg_tech_tree_cropped_June_.jpg)
But the event in Cologne could use the older tech tree I guess... |
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 Krzycho Poland. June 30 2009 23:32. Posts 404 | Profile |
What do you think about Xel Naga Watchtowers?
I assume you told to Dev's about your concerns with microing?
Do you know what were the specs of PCs you played on? |
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 StorrZerg United States. July 01 2009 00:51. Posts 3837 | Profile Blog |
| i don't like this xel naga watch tower :/ its not starcraft |
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| SoleSteeler Canada. July 01 2009 01:30. Posts 3345 | Profile |
How was the new armour / attack type system? Did it feel intuitive? Also, was there a sense that some units had "no chance" vs. certain unit types, or that they could beat the opponent with proper control?
Sorry if that's kinda vague ... I just rewrote that post like 5 times trying to figure out exactly what I was trying to say.  |
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 ParasitJonte Sweden. July 01 2009 01:32. Posts 761 | Profile |
Really, really good read but I got kind of depressed toward the end.
The mirror match-ups seem really boring, there's no reason to build factories, units respond sluggishly and auto-surrond even when you don't want them to, Protoss can't beat Zerg.
The fact that you still found the game fun is at least very promising :o!? I hope they read your post and make changes accordingly. |
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| Goshawk. United Kingdom. July 01 2009 02:02. Posts 186 | Profile Blog |
| Interesting read. Micro issues definitely need fixing, they would drive me crazy. |
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 MiniRoman Canada. July 01 2009 02:10. Posts 3261 | Profile Blog |
What's the typical lategame army size? I was very unimpressed with the 'macro' from the battlereports. David Kim bonergiver only had like 2 control groups max lategame. Definitely looked like Warcraft4 from the outside.
Micro issue is definitely warcraft4, very annoying ~_~ |
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 Scorch Austria. July 01 2009 02:18. Posts 1276 | Profile Blog |
On July 01 2009 00:51 StorZerg wrote:
i don't like this xel naga watch tower :/ its not starcraft
Why do you care? If people don't like it, map makers won't include it in their maps. It is purely a bonus. Just like line-of-sight blocking high grass and destructible rocks.
Also, map control is very much Starcraft. |
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 starPride United States. July 01 2009 02:20. Posts 142 | Profile |
| your wrong about the micro, its just a little more intelligent what actually happens is when you target something and it doesnt find a plausible route it attacks ground instead of going to the target. its the same in wc3 and this can really be used to ur advantadge. only if you know how to use it. |
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| StorrZerg United States. July 01 2009 02:28. Posts 3837 | Profile Blog |
On July 01 2009 02:18 Scorch wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 00:51 StorZerg wrote:
i don't like this xel naga watch tower :/ its not starcraft
Why do you care? If people don't like it, map makers won't include it in their maps. It is purely a bonus. Just like line-of-sight blocking high grass and destructible rocks. Also, map control is very much Starcraft.
Map control is very starcraft, but it never had other buildings giving bonus. idk reminds me of c&c i guess. and i like the high grass and dest rocks. |
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 foeffa Belgium. July 01 2009 02:29. Posts 1640 | Profile |
| Very very interesting read, answered a lot of my questions, tx. |
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| starPride United States. July 01 2009 02:39. Posts 142 | Profile |
i saw the video and hellion micro vs the banelings seemed very responsive. I have not played the game but from what i saw it seemed to be fine and he was able to do some nice micro.
i also think it is impossible to simply point out balance issues in 1 or 2 days of testing. Cause in all honesty. your a fucking noob at sc2. so is any other person who walks in that room even with expierence from before , at blizzcon. It's impossible to judge all the match ups cause there are many things undiscovered.
despite its current build. which is why balance decisions should be more focused on beta because you will get alot more information from a much wider audience. When new strategies were introduced in wc3 a few years back everyone claimed imbalance and bla bla. but strategy adjustments were changed and all was well. So please. dont judge balance ;d
you aren't the ultimate guru on balance
. And id really like to see more evidence of the micro issues which seemed to be almost irrelevant after i saw the beta video. Also, automine is only useful when people use the minerals. I've seen pros in wc3 games who can get a huge ammount of minerals because of an intense battle only to have 1000 + when he tps back. I've seen them make macro mistakes. just because auto mine is in doesnt mean people are going to have perfect macro or close. its going to take awhile. even then it wont be perfect. Last edit: 2009-07-01 02:41:02 |
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| zatic Germany. July 01 2009 02:57. Posts 2813 | Profile Blog |
On July 01 2009 02:10 MiniRoman wrote:
What's the typical lategame army size? I was very unimpressed with the 'macro' from the battlereports. David Kim bonergiver only had like 2 control groups max lategame. Definitely looked like Warcraft4 from the outside.
Micro issue is definitely warcraft4, very annoying ~_~
Pretty much like Broodwar. The BRs are not a good example of macro wars. Dustin Browder said in an interview with bw.de that they intentionally didn't pick macro heavy games for the BRs because they wanted to demonstrate what single units can do. |
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