On June 16 2012 05:17 KtheZ wrote: Course the DT claimed but we didnt have enough time to switch our vote, because he posted in the last minute (which is quite a gimmick in my opinion).
Actually, some games (WBG's games in particular) have a specific amount of time at the end of the night where nobody can share their night actions but people can still talk. There are different philosophies on whether or not this sort of thing is good-- it was discussed a bit in the Idea Factory (link) if you want to chip in your 2 cents.
Bad luck guys, you were outplayed by a cohesive town. There were really only a few people who looked scummy all game and that makes winning hard. I think the counter-claim was the right thing to do. No town would expect a VT to claim DT and mafia knew there was a DT in the game. Given that information if someone claims DT with a red check in a two mafia game it is worth the gamble. Why would expect Grush to not be the DT? As the K man said, the plan was to get people to put the two of them on "opposite" teams.
Once the real DT checked Vivax, it was game over.
To my mafia buddies, I still think you needed to be more proactive. What killed you this game was people were never sure of your alignment which means you are vulnerable to a case, a check or a process of elimination. You need to push town to do what you want them to do, especially if you are not clearly "town" in the early game. Look at Release, he pushed a misslynch through on Day 1 virtually on his own, but he was never really suspected of being mafia. Why? Because he was clear and forthright with his reads and his actions.
It was not a bad first try I think you came up against a town with enough solid players to make it really hard. Well done townies and to Vivax and KtheZ, better luck next time.
Yea I can't say I wouldn't have done the same in your shoes KtheZ.
Also Vivax, your meta as scum was noticeably different. I was debating on who to build a case on (between you and KtheZ) before the end of night 1...I ended up going with KtheZ because I figured that in a vacuum he would have a harder time sloughing it off. Also, your strong tone in your defenses planted just enough doubt in my mind. It's definitely an asset you have. The way you write makes it easy to confirm you when you are town, and difficult to doubt you when you're scum. If you had posted more, I'm not sure I would have suspected you at all.
Your additions to the case on Zen_Man was instrumental in my derp fest at the end of day1. I read his filter, read him as town, then read your shit again and then it was all a blur past that.
All in all you guys did very well, especially considering you were against a DT who nailed a scum check on night 1. I look forward to more games with both of you.
It wasn't my itention to look like the DT at all. I was trying to look like a scum, by posting multiple soft defense of Kthez and very wishy-washy behavior. In the end, Kthez was supposed to try to buddy up to me and i would call him out but after the NK but they ended up shooting the DT, so my plan never came into fruition
On June 16 2012 05:17 KtheZ wrote: Course the DT claimed but we didnt have enough time to switch our vote, because he posted in the last minute (which is quite a gimmick in my opinion).
Actually, some games (WBG's games in particular) have a specific amount of time at the end of the night where nobody can share their night actions but people can still talk. There are different philosophies on whether or not this sort of thing is good-- it was discussed a bit in the Idea Factory (link) if you want to chip in your 2 cents.
GG town, well played. Scum you played okay aswell : ).
My thoughts on this game. D1: So grush is under heavy fire. I didn't understand the way he played at all but I wasn't to convinvced that he scum. He didn't play town but his play didn't make any sense out of scum perspective either... Ha is the next one to be grilled. While I didn't like the way he played he simply seemed noob-town to me. I was quite sure he was town at this point. I'm the first one to pick up the case on Zen_Man, I don't regret this really. His play were the most scummy out of all players in the game at that time. Sad that he flipped medic but quite ironic that both of the games blues were accusing each other of being scum. N1: So my thought procces were something like this: s0lstice looked town, Release looked kinda town and I didn't really want to waste a check on him. Ha I was kinda convinced that he was town aswell despite his play but even then I was considering checking him. However, I felt that the high chance of him being lynched the next day would make it a weaker check. Same thing with grush. So was left with ShiaoPi, Vivax and Kthez. Vivax and Shiaopi were very passive the first day. Both of them were avoiding to take any clear stances. Kthez was at this point posting more of substance but I felt every time he posted, I didn't make alot of sence. He also scumslipped quite alot. In the end I kinda flipped a coin to decide which of theese three I would check : ). D2: My original plan was to push Vivax without claiming. However, then the thread blew up with 2 people claiming DT. You guys can't even realise the amount of mindfuck that were going on in my head here. I probebly should've claimed right when grush backed off. I kinda wanted to see what grush would flip as I wasn't sure whether grush or Kthez were scum at this point. My case on Vivax was somewhat Ignored. Alot of you guys seemed to think it was weak, why? : (. It's obviously a bit trickier to write a case when I knew that he was 100% scum. Still, I think his answers wasn't really good at all. My plan was to claim in the following night, so I tried my best not to look like the DT but also to piss Vivax off. If I was shoot N2 I figured it should be GG. N2: Not much to say. I am now 99,9% sure Kthez is scum. I just need to let everyone else know. fortunately I was shot : ).
Onto the players The_zen_Man: Sorry for gettingt you lynched bro : ). Still your play was strange and you were far from dead untill the last 30 minutes where you posted some really strange no content posts on how yous hould lynch me when you flip. Post more next time and you should be fine. Also, try to post more of your own stuff. s0lstice: You were probebly the best towni e in the game. You were the first one to push Kthez I think nad you were also the first one to put any critique at Vivax. I guess that's why you got shot : ). grush57: Strange play overall. The DT claim didn't make any sense what so ever but on the other hand it was what won us the game Release: You were really active which was very good in an otherwise quite lazy game. Your reads weren't super tho, and you keept going after people that were bad townies instead of scum. I know that is a fine line but you should probebly analyze peopple motives more next time. Ha236: Your play was strange aswell. You need to give more reads next time you play. Also remember that a player pushing you as town isn't necessarily a scum. Shaiopi: You play on D1 wasn't really good imo. You were quite passive. On D2 I think you improved tho. You gave good opinions and looked at peoples motives etc. Vivax: Sorry for the agressive tone against you : ). I really wanted you guys to kill me tho, so I somewhat succeded : P. I can only really comment on your play D1 as that's what made me check you. You never took a stance except for Zen_Man and he was a really easy target. I don't have problems with summaries but you avoided taking stances while only doing summaries. This is kinda scummy. Kthez: You took a risk, and if grush would've been the DT(which he should've been, VTs should claim like that) then it might just have won you guys the game. Your D1 play was a bit scummy to me but D2 was better. You were just unlucky that grush played next level mindgames with you : P.
I just read through the Mafia QT and damn my play in day 1 was sooo bad :D But I did in fact got caught up with EURO, but nice thinking from Vivax to see me as DT cuz of the change in behaviour. I admit it looked ridiculously scummy or blue but all without any intention ^^.
I must say scumteam did really well, if it had not been for Lazer's check on Vivax and his subsequent death we might have been in soo much trouble. I probably should have claimed the RB right after the nightpost instead of breadcrumbing it (even asked Toad about it, thanks for the coaching!) but I did that post before asking, so it probably added to the confusion about who the DT was in the end.
So when I was coaching I actually talked to Lazer specifically regarding the claims and the possibilities. It was the most straightforward for a DT in that situation.
I don't at all agree with grush's play in this game, and from a results-oriented perspective it looks good. However, it is INCREDIBLY dangerous in any normal game for a VT to claim DT. Imagine grush fake claimed and he was wrong about his target. That's an instant town loss. Imagine the mafia don't counterclaim and the real DT does; the DT is outted and the mafia can kill both players with ease (one with lynch and the other with a shot) If the DT is lynched, the fakeclaimer almost certainly gets lynched the next day.
With that said, grush got incredibly lucky. Scum panicked a bit (if I were in scum's position I would've simply denied the claim and tried to get grush lynched. I only really consider claiming at lylo). Blues get lynched all the time without counterclaims, and fake blues are even easier to lynch because their claims are flimsy. Someone who pushed and pressured grush to explain his claim could probably have ended up exposing him and getting an easy lynch. This takes confidence, though, and is much easier said than done.
On June 17 2012 14:01 wherebugsgo wrote: So when I was coaching I actually talked to Lazer specifically regarding the claims and the possibilities. It was the most straightforward for a DT in that situation.
I don't at all agree with grush's play in this game, and from a results-oriented perspective it looks good. However, it is INCREDIBLY dangerous in any normal game for a VT to claim DT. Imagine grush fake claimed and he was wrong about his target. That's an instant town loss. Imagine the mafia don't counterclaim and the real DT does; the DT is outted and the mafia can kill both players with ease (one with lynch and the other with a shot) If the DT is lynched, the fakeclaimer almost certainly gets lynched the next day.
With that said, grush got incredibly lucky. Scum panicked a bit (if I were in scum's position I would've simply denied the claim and tried to get grush lynched. I only really consider claiming at lylo). Blues get lynched all the time without counterclaims, and fake blues are even easier to lynch because their claims are flimsy. Someone who pushed and pressured grush to explain his claim could probably have ended up exposing him and getting an easy lynch. This takes confidence, though, and is much easier said than done.
I'd like to second what WBG mentioned here about VT fakeclaims. Typically gambitting with a fakeclaim, especially in a semi-open mini like this, is a great way to get mislynched. The fact that scum freaked out and counterclaimed doesn't mean the gambit was good, it just meaned it worked.
If, for example, the real Cop counterclaimed (since a 1-1 trade isn't so bad if they both get lynched, he thinks), it's entirely possible town could have killed the Cop, THEN KILLED THE VT. Could you imagine trying to say "oh, no, it was a fakeclaim you guys" after the Cop claimed, or after he got lynched for his counterclaim and flipped cop? Nobody would buy it. Scum would say "nice try, scum", and so would town.
I guess the best analogy here is that Grush walked into a casino, went up to a roulette table, put it all on 0, and won 20 grand. Yeah, he won 20 grand. It doesn't mean the strat was good, though. All it means is he got lucky.
Yeah basically it came to scum jumping the gun and counterclaiming faster than the DT himself could. Odd situation, but not one you normally want to create as a VT.
town was hella lucky this game DT check ---> scum turns, no framers, guaranteed scum VT claims DT ---> scum claims DT Real DT claims ---> real DT shot.
As KtheZ, the Sand Monster pounded the last ounces of life out of the hapless Lazermonkey, Vivax, the Vizier, arrived at the scene. With the Prince of Persia out of the way, his plan had almost no opposition left. Gleefully, Vivax approached the body of the Prince, seeking to loot that elusive Dagger of Time, but as he searched his body, the corpse's complexion grew darker, and darker. Perplexed, Vivax jumped back in confusion as Lazermonkey's body morphed into some sort of shadowy being!
"Seeing double, Vivax?" sneered the real Lazermonkey, suddenly appearing at the clearing. Flanking him were ha236, Release, and ShiaoPi, the remaining Kingdom Guard.
"What magic is this? You're not capable of a spell of this magnitude" said Vivax, astonished. "No spell," said Lazermonkey, smiling. "He is a manifestation of my darker sides, the accumulation of pride, greed, and scum within me, brought out by the Sands of Time, and you've done me the favor of slaying him for me. It's the end for you scum."
"You think you can defeat me and my minion??" exclaimed Vivax. "I think you should examine your surroundings more closely," said Lazermonkey.
Vivax and KtheZ had only a moment to glance at the perilous drop behind them before Lazermonkey activated the Sands of Time within his dagger. As the Vizier screamed curses, sand whipped and whirled around the villainous duo, creating a torrent of wind that, with a flick of the dagger, picked up and hurled them off the cliff and into the endless abyss! It was all over at last.
Gathering the survivors, Lazermonkey solemnly looked towards the sunrise and said a few words in reverence of their broken kingdom. "Though we fought between each other, we are all that remain to rebuild our great Kingdom. Though the scum have won countless victories over Liquidia, let us remember this one triumphant moment as we face the future challenges, together!"
Lazermonkey, The Prince of Persia became ruler of the land! ha236, Release, and ShiaoPi, the Kingdom Guards, survived the ordeal! KtheZ, the Sand Monster and Vivax, the Vizier, were destroyed by the Sands of Time and/or gravity!
Welcome to Newbie Mini Mafia XVI! You are a Sand Monster (Mafia Goon), a mindless beast who seeks the destruction of Liquidia. A loyal servant to the Vizier, you seek nothing more than to eliminate any obstacles to your Master's grand schemes. As an empty husk, you have no special abilities, but thanks to your Master's magic you have become disguised as an earnest guard, ready to destroy Liquidia from the inside.
In the stealth of the night, you or the Vizier may murder one individual. You may also communicate amongst yourselves at this link: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/tfBKX4cUJUkQ . Destroy the empire and deliver the throne to the Master!
Welcome to Newbie Mini Mafia XVI! You are the Vizier (Mafia Roleblocker), a traitorous, power hungry advisor. Though you have succeeded in converting the majority of the Liquidia into your Sand minions, you still lack the Dagger of Time needed to complete your final scheme. Unbeknownst to the survivors, you have disguised yourself as an earnest guard, so that you may gut them from the inside. As wielder of the Staff of Time, you wield ancient, powerful magic.
Once per night, you may cast a spell that discombobulates your target, rendering them unable to perform any actions that night. They will be notified that they have been prevented from taking any actions, regardless of if they attempted to. In addition, you or your minions may murder one individual every night. Finally, you may communicate among yourselves here: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/tfBKX4cUJUkQ Destroy the empire and take your rightful throne!
Welcome to Newbie Mini Mafia XVI! You are Farah, Princess of India (Town Medic), a previously enslaved captive who has now become aligned with Liquidia. Though you were taken as a spoil of war and thus resent the kingdom of Liquidia, you have no love for the Sand monsters nor the traitorous Vizier who created them. You are an invaluable ally to any due to your resourcefulness and intelligence.
Once per night, you may choose a person to visit and protect from any killing blow. Both your target and you will be notified if there has been a successful save. Root out and eliminate the invaders!
Welcome to Newbie Mini Mafia XVI! You are the Prince of Persia (Town Detective), a young, untested hero wishing to test his mettle. The sudden invasion of Liquidia by the hideous Sand monsters has give you both a chance to become the hero you have always yearned to be and the burden of having to save your kingdom from ruin. Though you have not quite developed the combat skills to take on an army, you are a master of infiltration, exploration, and acrobatics.
Once per night, you may use your skills to sneak around and investigate a player of your choice. You will discern their alignment as either Pure or Corrupted by the following day. Root out and eliminate the invaders!
Welcome to Newbie Mini Mafia XVI! You are a Kingdom Guard (Vanilla Townie), a loyal soldier looking to save his kingdom. As nothing but a low ranking soldier, you only survived the corrupting influence of the Sands of Time due to a mysterious pendant handed down through your family line. Though you are neither a powerful warrior nor a cunning strategist, you and your compatriots are the only barrier blocking the nefarious Sand minions from destroying your beloved empire.
Every day, you may cast your vote for who should be executed as traitor. Root out and eliminate the invaders!
This is a million lines long, apologies; I hope it's useful to some of you guys. There's a tl;dr and player-by-player assessment at bottom, if you're lazy. Don't be, if you can avoid it.
Day 1
The Day 1 activity was pretty much an average D1, good and bad for both factions. One interesting thing to note; when the game started, Vivax posted in scum QT "it's pretty late, I'll wait for other people to post so I have something to respond to". While understandable that it's late and he could've already been asleep, townies are always more eager to get going in thread,. Especially considering Vivax's meta (afaik), his lurkyness would stand out, and it started at the Day Post.
Though Release is good to have healthy paranoia to FoS s0Lstice early (mostly because s0Lstice's post was really fluffy, low substance), I would immediately put these 2 players further down in my lynch priority list. Just look at these posts from them:
On June 09 2012 10:39 Release wrote: Low activity levels and lurkers are Town-Killers. Start talking, or i will find you, and i will shove a dirty sock up you anus.
On June 09 2012 10:49 s0Lstice wrote: And yea, everyone needs to un-shut-up. It's my sock he is using, and it's hella dirty.
Though scum can easily say these lines too, the decisiveness and proactive-ness of these statements just ooze with towniness.
The next big order of business is the grush vs. Release thing. One thing that's an interesting small note is that though Release pressure votes Grush at 11:08, KtheZ's first post at 11:45 doesn't even address it. Though he later does so, the mindset of scum generally doesn't want to comment on things unless they are forced to. Regarding the pressure itself, I like the initiative by Release, but he took it way too far. Having a mudslinging contest for 3-4 pages is not good for town environment.
One thing to note is that grush57 never seemed very perturbed by the pressure. A lot of players seemed to think that grush57 looked scummier and scummier over time, but really his belligerence seemed really fearless; a townie trait. The case here by Lazermonkey is probably how a lot of people viewed grush57, but the case kind of skews a lot of grush's posts, especially where Lazer says "your third post says its ok if people lurk". That post does not say that at all; it is these kind of logical inaccuracies that you need to look out for to determine if a case is good or bad. Reading through this, both ha236 and The_Zen_Man highlight the logical fallacy in the "third post lurkers ok". One of the best ways to find other townies is to make your own logical conclusions and then see if other people share your opinions.
At this very moment in the game, I would probably be suspicious of Lazermonkey (for a bad case), KtheZ (for not taking a hard stance yet but being around), and ShiaoPi/Vivax (for lurking). Release/s0Lstice are super townies, ha/Zen are logical, and grush is being belligerent; all look light green to me. There are different schools of thought on how to organize thoughts, whether or not it's good to internally think "this guy is more scummy than that guy", but most of all just remember to record your thoughts on people but always be ready to reassess them. Excel spreadsheet ftw. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point, the Day is almost half over and people should've been taking stances by now, yet this is not the case. Posts like this
On June 10 2012 04:56 s0Lstice wrote: Also Vivax, I've seen your town play, and lurking is not it. Your silence is extra suspicious.
should not be forgotten. Ver (mafia god) once said that Mafia is a game of paradoxes; the person who seems so blatantly suspicious (grush) is often town, while the person tickling at the back of your mind but staying hidden is often scum (Vivax).
Never ever say this:
On June 10 2012 08:22 Release wrote: Scum team is Grush and Ha236. This game is over.
You'll always be wrong, unless your name is Palmar.
Next up is the push onto ha. s0Lstice's initial case is decent, but nothing conclusive. However, it is reactions to this case that are most important. Lazermonkey's reaction here seems to be full of hiding; if I was town I would think he is scummy, and if I was scum, I would at this point consider him as a potential blue. Also, ShiaoPi's response did not really directly address the issue; I would also see him as blue or scummy (which the scum team ended up thinking, not a bad read).
Note KtheZ's reasoning for voting:
On June 11 2012 03:56 KtheZ wrote: I think I'll place my vote on grush for now. If new compelling evidence comes up, I'm definitely open to accepting it.
##Vote: grush57
Wait, where's the reasoning? He posts a bunch of connections that are mostly fluff, and he doesn't at all state exactly why he thinks grush is the best lynch. Alarm bells should be sounding now; s0Lstice did catch on a bit.
This is another example of a post where the suspicion is tickling at you in an odd way:
On June 11 2012 05:29 Vivax wrote: Guys, we're at close danger of a no-lynch. I'm not very satisfied with ha236 as option cause I find his first posts regarding Lazermonkey and Release to be true, but on the other hand he didn't make a single case except for OMGUS ones now in the end and instead only spent time defending grush and himself. [...]
##vote ha236
If you're not satisfied, go read some more.
Release sees the logical fallacy here (being unsatisfied with something but voting with it anyways?), but the way Vivax posted it, it doesn't seem immediately uber scummy. Jump on posts like that. Also note how he says "it was a pretty bad day 1 imo". Isn't it Vivax's fault partialy for that, for lurking all day? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The vote switch was bad, to put it simply. Last minute vote switches are rarely, rarely going to hit scum because if the switch is happening onto a teammate, they can just say "last minute vote switches are scummy, I'm sticking to our main target". Only attempt a major vote switch if you have at least 8-12 hours. Zen looked a little scummy, but since blue roles often look scummy, it's a dicy situation.
Regarding whether to claim or not to claim; personally, I think in this situation not claiming was the correct choice. If you have 12 hours and plenty of time to prove your innocence, then a claim could help you out, but with only like 2 hours, a no-lynch would be more likely which is utterly terrible for town. There is almost no situations where no-lynching is good; if Zen had claimed, he would've completely bogged down town discussion. What he should've done was post a comprehensive case on someone he was suspicious on, but again, it was too late for a good switch to happen. Also, even if he doesn't get killed, he will be simply shot at night or roleblocked, and if he lives to D2, he will be promptly be mislynched. The medic role cannot operate if out in the open. Simply put, there shouldn't have been a switch, so I don't blame Zen for the situation that happened.
Scum deserve credit for successfully making a vote shift. The reason why vote shifts between two townies is good is because the person that got shifted off of looks really bad (ha236), and it confuses town, as "it looks like everyone thought Zen was scum, I dunno". Credit to scum here, and good luck getting the medic. Night 1 That took forever to write up and I bet you guys are getting tired of reading, so I'll make the next few cycles a lot shorter.
So the medic just got lynched; what to do? Remember; D1 mislynches are super common in all levels of play, and even though it was the medic, it's NBD; town still has plenty of chances to win. Don't get demoralized by a blue dying, or overconfident if you're scum. There are mountains of information in D1 as I highlighted above, so to the observant townie or observant scum, there are red and blue to be found.
The most important thing to do after a mislynch is to examine who pushed it. A simple re-read of the thread shows that Lazermonkey is the first to vote him. However look again: Vivax posts a mini case and FoS's him; why the FoS here and not a vote, like Lazermonkey? This is a common scum thing to do: FoS someone, see if enough votes stack on, then you put your vote on. This way, you successfully push a mislynch while not looking like the push behind it. This tell is stronger if it happens later on in the day; a FoS in the early part of D1 doesn't mean anything, but Vivax's timing is all off.
I don't know why Release decided to tunnel after ha some more. Why? I dunno, he doesn't really state. You got to have reasons, bro. Your case on s0Lstice was decent, but strange. You cherry pick things that you disagree with to make s0Lstice look scummy, while ignoring the fact that he was by far the most active and contributing poster.
ShiaoPi makes a big contributive post, and states which one he thinks is most scummy and why. Off my scummy list.
s0Lstice makes good case on KtheZ. DONT IGNORE IT. DONT IGNORE IT. DONT FORGET IT
Lazermonkey makes a clutch DT check on Vivax, noting his meta. Though I bashed Lazer a bunch above, he deserves major kudos for this. Day 2
s0Lstice flips town. Look at his filter boys, what does it say? It says kill KtheZ. While you don't want to blindly follow dead people's words, since s0Lstice is a proven strong town player (from previous newbie games, afaik), you should seriously consider what he has to say. However, Release continues his tunnel onto Ha. He does state a good reason why ha could be scum (votes on s0Lstice and Release for no reason), but I don't feel like he seriously considered KtheZ despite a flipped green posting a monster case on him.
Day post comes out, and who isn't talking much? Vivax. At this point, even without the DT checks, the scum team has been pretty accurately pointed out. The hard part is focusing on them and getting them lynched.
ShiaoPi should've claimed RB at the beginning of D2. Scum already know who they roleblocked; town should always relate important information as quickly as possible. Because there is a RBer in a game, there must be a DT (as medic flipped). Town should know this ASAP.
Lazermonkey posts a good logical defense of ha, then does the exact correct thing as a DT with a red check. He doesn't claim or just say "kill Vivax, hes scum kthxbai". He posts a large, logical case and puts his vote down hard. Blue play like this is so rare; he played it perfectly here. Don't use your role as your case; use your role as a guide to your already made cases. Well done.
Vivax and KtheZ's defenses against the cases brought against them were adequate, but remember; you don't know their alignment, but you know s0Lstice is town. I'd take their defenses with a grain of salt at this point, and really dig deep and see who is right. Vivax's unvote of grush into Lazer looks really suspicious at this point. It looks like quite the reactionary move; he goes from "I have no reads, I vote grush" into "you look really bad!!"?? OMGUS at it's clearest example.
Also Note that Vivax unvotes Lazer, then votes KtheZ. While I like that he decided to vote his mate (important to not ignore your scumbuddies, it's a tell), this is his second unvote in a short span of time. It reeks of a lack of focus or intent to scumhunt. This coupled with the other tells makes a completely insurmountable case for me.
Grush's vote onto KtheZ with no reasoning was terrible, even if he would've been DT with a red check. His claim was bad too. Unless you are heavily experienced, I'm talking about a kajillion games playing blue/green, do not fake claim as town. Just don't do it. It will backfire, and people will call you noob and you will deserve it. KtheZ's counterclaim is debatable. If a strong townie (i.e. Release) came out like this, I would counterclaim immediately as you have a big threat on your plate. However, with grush you could've tried to argue him down. Ask him "where is your breadcrumb?". Ask him why he checked you and not ha236 or Lazermonkey. Pressure him. Also, you could've used the arguement that you have to lynch the claimed DT first; lynching the target doesn't confirm the DT at all. If you had managed to get grush lynched and he flips green, you would be exonerated, and town would be in disarrary.
Town correctly lynches grush. If KtheZ hadn't claimed, scum would be in a great position; Vivax would get lynched tomorrow, then most likely Ha236. However, at this point scum is pretty much screwed due to roles. Sorry about that. Night 2 Shooting Lazermonkey was not the wrong idea, as you thought he was least likely to be detective, but unfortunately you got unlucky here. If scum had shot Release instead, it would be KtheZ's claim vs. Lazermonkey's claim. This would've been a very interesting duel, with both sides evenly matched. Day 3 GG. Overall Town Despite mudslinging early on between Release and Grush, there was a lot of activity throughout the game. People bemoaned lurking, but remember this is a 9 player game. I thought the activity was enough to have substance without being spammy. The biggest problem was not re-reading closely, especially s0Lstice's reads. You have to think; WHY would they shoot s0Lstice over Release? Release was pushing ha and grush a lot, while s0Lstice was leaning against KtheZ a lot. Take that into account. Also, if you're blue remember it's important to try and act as green as possible; if you act scared, it makes you more obvious to scum, and suspicious to your comrades. Clutch blue play from Lazermonkey sealed the deal; town deserved this win overall. Even without the weird claim from grush, town was in a good position to win it as long as Release refocused his thoughts.
Overall Scum Scum played better than most newbie scum teams, as both were fairly active and posted logical cases against people. However, as I stated a few times Vivax did this far too late, and KtheZ wasn't as decisive as he could've been. There are different schools of thoughts on how to play scum, but one of them is to try and look as townie as possible for as long as possible; look at how strong and decisive s0Lstice and Release were, and emulate that. Your blue reading wasn't bad; I find blue reading to be pretty hard and you had a decent range on who was blue. Overall, with more earlier activity, you would've been able to avoid the DT check and get a win. Player by Player
KtheZ - Your play was active from the start, which was good, but you have to be more firm in your convictions. This means always commenting on major events of the day and posting your reasons for all of your actions so there are no loose ends. One way to to do this is to make your posting more tight. You post a bunch of auxillary posts which makes it seem like you don't have much to talk about. The reason why your % statistics things looks strange is because it feels like an artificial reason to be suspicious of someone. Instead of you saying "I think X is scummy because of Y", you are saying "Because of Y, X is more likely to be scummy". One of them sounds more direct than the other. Overall though, decent play. I thought you reacted to the blue claim in an appropriate manner.
Vivax - Your posting style was very good, but you were pretty damned for being inactive in this game despite being active in another. Though meta is a dicy thing, it was pretty apparent that you were AWOL for a while, and though others lurked as well, it puts you into an unnecessarily dangerous area. There are ways to spin being lurky to your advantage though, and this is mostly if you make the substantial posts at the right times. If you want to consider lurking as a general style it can be done; just be ready to argue with people calling you out.
The_Zen_Man - You looked far too blue which is a problem; you don't want to be exposed like that because it will draw suspicion from both town and mafia. I thought not claiming was the right choice, though you could've argued out of it by saying last minute vote switches are terrible.
Lazermonkey - Strong blue play overall. I didn't like your case on Zen, but the effort was there. The way you handled the fake claimers was good. Keep it up, and be sure to reassess your cases more often.
s0Lstice - Stellar play. Not much else I can say except don't let vote switches like that happen. Don't let it get to your head, but keep on having fun wrecking as town.
ha236 - I thought you were sort of a victim of bad cases, and you did actively confront them which is good, but don't let OMGUS seep into your system. Your vote onto s0Lstice and Release was needless and it showed that you didn't have any other major cases to push. Though it's hard to find cases and you might think "I'm Town, so these people pushing me must be anti-town", you have to show you are townie not only by looking like it, but by making cases.
grush57 - I think you know by now not to fake claim. It's not a good idea as it will just cause a lot of disruption. I thought you handled the pressure from Release reasonably; it's good that you constantly responded, but by not using longer amounts of reasoning, why would anyone believe you? Your style reminds me a bit of FourFace; he can post in a very sketchy style, but when it comes to defending himself or attacking others, he posts longer cases. Put more work into effectively conveying your thoughts with more reasoning, and you'll be in better shape.
Release - You did a very effective job at establishing yourself as townie, which is IMO the most important thing to do as a townie. I already mentioned that I felt you tunneled too hard at ha/grush, but you kept town going which is an important thing to do. Just make sure you don't lynch off your fellow town head in future games. Don't be overconfident in your reads; while it is good to trust your own instincts since you don't know other people's alignments, when people flip green, you should take their words into account.
Shiaopi - You already know that you were pretty inactive, but it worked out in that they thought you were the DT. I've actually done this strat before, where I make sure I look townie enough to not be thought of as scum, but I show off classic blue traits (lurking, conciliatory attitude) to soak shots. By N1/D2 you helped town along with Release, so I thought your play was good. Conclusion
WP by town. I apologize for the setup; because there were no Millers or GFers or Framers possible, the DT was a little more powerful than it should be. However, considering town's good play, I feel that they did not use the blue role as a crutch; it just sealed the deal in the end. Good analysis is the most important thing to learn from these games, not how to follow a cop.
Most of all, remember that ALL OF YOU GUYS POSTED, MULTIPLE TIMES each days. I was so happy that I didn't have to modkill anyone. I look forward to seeing all of you in my future games, as you guys have proven to be active and decent players.
I might do a fully themed PoP game some time, when I have more time and if there's positive feedback for it. Time manipulation mechanics will be had to work out xp.
Thanks to coaches for giving out help, and marvellosity for being a good co-host, esp. when I was off at MLG.
GG, and remember; vote switches and fake claims are bad!