If you've not consumed a fair bit of Star Trek this may not be the blog for you, but I am about ten episodes away from the final episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine, and for my money this series is as good if not better than The Next Generation. Now I am going to add a couple of caveats to such a heretical statement in the realm of televised science fiction. First off, this is not a slight against Picard, he is still my favorite captain, but in terms of story telling we almost completely miss the progression of Picard from cadet to renowned Captain. You come in to TNG with everyone already in awe of the captain of Starfleet's Flagship, I think this is a missed opportunity barring overly campy flashbacks with "young Picard,". Secondly, no TNG no DS9, all credit where credit is due. Full disclosure this will contain spoilers.
Fuck yeah, Vorta
I've been coming to this conclusion over the course of seasons five and six, as the war with the Dominion slowly comes to a head. This brings me to my first point, the major, story arcs for each respective series. On the one hand we have the Borg, an antagonist close to my heart as a Zerg player, the idea of assimilating races for the betterment of a whole was fantastic when they were first introduced. They are vicious, ruthless and brought into the series by one of my favorite elements of TNG which is the Q Continuum (A race of omnipotent beings, nigh all powerful races (or so we're led to believe) for those who are unfamiliar.)
On the other hand we have the Dominion, an empire chaired by a race of shapeshifters who have crafted soldiers, overseers, and misc to view them as gods, and do everything within their will power to satisfy the will of their distant gods. This of course is predicated by a lot of mess about a miserable little planet called Bajor, which had been recently liberated from Cardassian occupation the near the year the series begins. Credit to TNG for the Cardassians, but DS9 took this and ran with it.
Both arcs have their merit, but DS9, past the initial fleshing out of Bajoran custom, and religion, feels a hell of a lot less beholden to its antagonists than TNG ever did.
The actual station DS9, what was a Cardassian ore facility placed in the charge of Starfleet as Bajor attempts to get back on its feet via provisional government
This leads me to my first bit, which I briefly touched on: The Captains (Commander)
The Captains
Commander (Later Captain) Benjamin Sisko, the lovely gentleman to the left, was placed in charge of DS9 shortly after the occupation, by the end of things he has made something out of that piece of shit, bicycle wheel of a station.Turned it from the bumfuck, boonie, backwater station near a planet matching that description rather aptly, into the defensive outpost guarding the wormhole against Dominion invasion. (Minor detail the Dominion threat comes from the Gamma quadrant, years away at maximum warp, the discovery of the only stable wormhole known, leads to it being revealed to the Federation.).
The initial downside to Sisko is that Avery Brooks's delivery and acting is stiff by Star Trek standards, which is saying something; You get similar feelings with Picard but for most people watching, you'll have some semblance of an idea as to what Picard is meant to mean and this makes digesting Patrick Stewart markedly easier)
Tying this back into my earlier point, one of the best aspects of DS9 is watching the crew make something of their environment, they aren't gifted the creme de la creme of Federation technology. I would love to see what Picard did on the Stargazer, a ship which he captained prior to his assignment to the Enterprise, but we have very little to go on. Patrick Stewart owned this role like nothing else, but every little dance into the past was cumbersome, and you just wind up comparing the role of "Young Jean Luc Picard" against Patrick Stewart which is inherently unfair,
The Crews
Hella early pictures of both, as evidenced by Tasha Yar, and the makeup
This is where we first come into the discussion about Space Station vs. Starship, while the latter offers more situational opportunity and exposure to misc. alien races n'er to be seen again, the former offers something that Enterprise A-E had yet to dive into: well rounded development of most of the crew (O'Brian notwithstanding). I mention O'Brian as he is grandfathered in from the Enterprise to facilitate the transition to this new Trek reality (though both shows aired simultaneously for a short while), Worf followed three or so seasons later.
TNG is littered with episodes that feel forced, this is specific to race/world/tradition based episodes. Betazed is a perfect example of this. Troi's mother, and in fact a fair few of Troi-centric episodes are endurance trials to see how much of her counseling you can take. While DS9 is not without similar episodes, I have yet to recall an episode I basically had to abandon completely because of my being able to tell nothing significant would happen, and it was all petty, non-developmental drama.
While the Ferengi story lines are the most tedious in my opinion, but Nog, Rom, and Quark are much less interesting in the context of Ferengi society than they are on the station. Even the least interesting character, O'Brian, the bridge from TNG to DS9, has some brilliant episodes, in particular a Twilight Zone-esq episode revolving around his experiencing 20 years of incarceration in a matter of hours (Via Alien technology, the great plot equalizer).The most belabored point in DS9 is the fleshing out of Bajoran society, down the line this becomes well worth it, but going through it you get to feeling like Bajor could die and no one should give a fuck about it because it is so boring and or unreasonable.
The (W)(V)essels
While DS9 is not much of a wessel, relative to the Enterprise D and or E, if you'll indulge me by entering into the TNG movies, it is honest. I mentioned this before, the luxuries of the Enterprise put it a class above of DS9, but there are very few times I can recall in TNG, where you really felt the limitations of the ship. Up into the point where the Federation opts to invest in the station, that is to say when it becomes a strategic point of value, DS9 is constantly bumping into the limitations of the fact that the station was not designed for its eventual use. Something which I feel adds to the drama involved in the series. Enterprise all day every day, but DS9 makes for a much more interesting story. Finally:
The Enemies
Both series opted for nigh unstoppable enemies, and suffered from the seemingly unavoidable issue of scaling the difficulty of facing said enemy. Both Jem'Hadar, and the Borg started as an indomitable enemy, to be avoided at all costs, and both to a real extent became enemies with which the Federation could hold their footing.
Where the Jem'Hadar improve upon the Borg in my opinion is their actual humanity. Sure we had Hugh, a brief foray into humanizing the Borg, but the idea is so antithetical to the principles of the race, the damage inflicted by his individuality (as an infection to the Borg hive mind, as heavy handed as that is) is only briefly touched upon. The Jem'Hadar are quickly improved upon through their demonstrated ability to think beyond their genetically pre-programmed situation. Something a bit more akin to the transition of Klingon culture from unwavering warrior culture to wavering warrior culture. As principle antagonists are concerned we are made much more privy to the actual goings ons within the Jem'Hadar, Vorta, and Dominion that we ever were regarding the cubes that intermittently showed up within Federation space, only to disappear. This plot point serves as an initial point of contention between Picard and Sisko in episode one of DS9 as Locutus, the Borg-itized version of Picard was responsible for the death of Sisko's own wife.
Long story short, comparatively speaking, the Borg are very one dimensional.
The Conclusion
TNG bore the brunt of establishing a dialog for the Alpha Quadrant, and suffered the adolescent years that are to be expected of an extension of Star Trek, DS9 reaped the benefits. The shifts in writing staff throughout each series led to strengths and weaknesses but on the whole, the Dominion, a tangible, well fleshed out enemy with some describable structure makes for the much more intriguing enemy. Now that I am here, I think it merits calling out that DS9 does a much better job of illustrating the ripples within Starfleet that keep it... human-ish for lack of a better term.
The baseball game between the Vulcans and DS9 is a great example of this. I'll end it on the fact that we get to watch this crew build something, that they come up with many of the solutions and improvements to the station that make it great. For once in Star Trek we are also relatively rooted, TNG was often beleaguered with the fact that one would expect a Starship to be constantly intransit; DS9 offered Trekkies, or Trekkers if you are wont to debate the merits of either the chance to lay down roots on Bajor.
All in all it is a matter of preference, but if you are wont to Star Trek. Give DS9 its fair go, and don't root it too much in TNG. It is an entirely different kind of rewarding.
I'm not a Star Trek guy, but from what I hear isn't DS9 supposed to actually be held as a superior series among the true ST fanatics as compared to TNG? Or maybe my sci-fi buddy is just a DS9 fanboy who is attempting to sway me based off of my own ignorance.
I've seen bits and pieces of both series but not enough to really form a valid opinion as to whether one is superior to the other (or even if the series as a whole is good/bad). From what I've seen, every episode seems to basically be an issue on morals/ethics, which is a kind of theme I can't stomach for more than 1 sitting a week. And given that I'm kind of a watch-TV-rarely-but-binge-when-I-do viewer (as a quasi-member of the Netflix generation) both shows didn't hold too much appeal for me. Ironically, this show would've probably been one of my favs if it was only showed weekly on the TV when it came out long ago.
Edit: On that note, I think I'll go watch an episode weekly now on Netflix. I think they're on there now. Dunno why I didn't just think about watching 'em weekly 'til now, lol.
I enjoyed your blog very much and also feel that DS9 doesn't get the credit it deserves! It featured generally strong performances (especially when compared to Marina Sirtis) and tackled more complicated and nebulous themes than TNG (i love the race-relation issues that run throughout). The biggest strength of DS9 when compared to TNG is the writing and with good reason. Take a look at the difference in the writing credits for TNG and DS9. Story cohesion was a direct result of increased oversight and use of repeated writers.
Your criticisms of TNG are all true, but need to be considered in context. TNG was a phenomena that didn't have much competition for the fantasy/sci-fi genres. DS9 had to compete with Babylon 5, Xena, and other major shows. Another strike against DS9 was that Paramount under-promoted it in preparation for the launch of Voyager.
But I still think that TNG was more important because of what it accomplished in turning the Star Trek into both a morality play and also an optimistic vision of the future. After it found its voice in season 3 or so, Star Trek had been re-imagined from the pulpy space opera in which Kirk sleeps with every blue humanoid race at the port-of-call, to a show that featured an android grappling with what it means to be human. It elevated the dialogue of sci-fi in popular media and made the genre a vehicle for discussing important universal issues. It created the space for the shows with which DS9 had to compete.
At any rate, I loved your blog! I'm also an MST3K lover, but you probably could've guessed that as well! Keep it up!
On July 31 2014 10:18 kushm4sta wrote: Just the title of this blog infuriates me greatly. I will read it and respond later, after the rage dies down. For now, 1/5 stars.
The only thing I can bear to say DS9 was better at, was they had the coolest ship (The Defiant) of all of the series. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DS9. But, I couldn't ever rate it above The Next Generation or Voyager (which was not mentioned -- part 2 blog maybe??).
On July 31 2014 12:31 esReveR wrote: The only thing I can bear to say DS9 was better at, was they had the coolest ship (The Defiant) of all of the series. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DS9. But, I couldn't ever rate it above The Next Generation or Voyager (which was not mentioned -- part 2 blog maybe??).
WOHWOH DS9 is definitely better than Voyager. Don't know what you're smoking there. Also, the Defiant was a PoS. How was that cool? It looked like a shuttle or something.
Wow, I just saw that episode. What are the fucking odds?
But in all seriousness, the episode is actually pretty good. And the scene itself is significant when you consider the actual theme of that particular episode. Then again, I tend to be able to watch these kinds of shows without getting the shitty acting, effects, or even unrealistic circumstances to impact my viewing experience. Every television show (and film) sucks if you try to measure it up against reality. In the end, it's the (attempted) portrayal of an idea that makes it worthwhile imo.
Ahh, I remember your previous blog about the Star Trek binge.
I like TNG more overall but I still love Ds9 too. I think TNG had superior main characters (Data, Picard, Geordi, etc. (pretend Troi and doctor polaski didn't exist) but Ds9 by far had the superior secondary and tertiary characters (quark, Garak, Dukat, Grand Negus, etc). I guess that just due to the different approach of the shows. One more of an episodic series where the main people are pivotal and the other a more space opera type prolonged story where tons of characters come into play. I have other qualms with Ds9 but if you haven't seen every episode I'd rather not say.
As for the Ferengi storylines I personally liked them. Sure maybe it made for some dumb episodes, but the Ferengi lore they fleshed out in the show was usually hilarious. Their form of afterlife is the best. "The Ferengi concepts of the afterlife are a mirror of their pursuit of wealth in life. When a Ferengi dies, he is said to meet the Blessed Exchequer, who reviews the financial statements of that Ferengi's entire life. If he earned a profit, he is ushered into Ferengi heaven: the Divine Treasury, where the Celestial Auctioneers allow him to bid on a new life. Ferengi who were not financially successful in life are damned to the Vault of Eternal Destitution."
DS9 desperately needed the influx of interesting characters like Worf, Martok and Weyoun. I feel they really helped the series (and of course Garak being a badass). I don't think it's fair to compare TNG with DS9, the latter had the advantage of the Dominion arc, while TNG had less bottle shows. They both fared very well in their respective settings.
Yes! DS9 was the best, except maybe season 1 (but let's be honest all the series improved dramatically over time). And I wish they would have tuned down the Pah-wraith stuff in the end, that got annoying quickly. I think TNG had the strongest individual episodes, but DS9 actually captured a vaster universe and brought context into the star trek universe.
Also I'm not afraid to admit I cried when it all ended, you build such a strong relationship with all the characters. I really want to watch some DS9 again now...
I didn't really watch it because of timing issues (watched a few episodes here and there), but all my friends that watched it said DS9 is better/best, even though they worshiped TNG.
Well what are the odds, just this week I started picking up watching the entire series (TNG through to Voyager) again! Very much looking forward to DS9 indeed :>
Agree on DS9 being the best overall, but it has to be said that the worst episodes of DS9 are worse than the worst of TNG, refer to the Move Along Home posted earlier ...
Lastly, you didn't touch on Voyager, while it's overall not as good as TNG/DS9 I feel that the absolute best single episodes are in this series, the multipart or feature length episodes in the later Voyager seasons are fantastic, even if I can't stand Harry Kim
I really liked the tension in TNG when it came to the constant standoffs with the other races. Shit gets so tense when there's only just the Enterprise and other ship.
I liked DS9 a lot but then I started watching more TNG. I prefer TNG.
On July 31 2014 19:01 Liquid`TLO wrote: Yes! DS9 was the best, except maybe season 1 (but let's be honest all the series improved dramatically over time). And I wish they would have tuned down the Pah-wraith stuff in the end, that got annoying quickly. I think TNG had the strongest individual episodes, but DS9 actually captured a vaster universe and brought context into the star trek universe.
Also I'm not afraid to admit I cried when it all ended, you build such a strong relationship with all the characters. I really want to watch some DS9 again now...
Hmm, this is quite an interesting debate, as for which is the best series!
I personally prefer DS9 slightly over TNG, but mostly because I feel a strong red-line (so interconnecting progressive stories) makes for a stronger show, where as TNG was for many parts much more episodic. Debating the characters also has many merits, TNG had stronger lead characters Picard/Riker/Data than DS9 Sisko/Kira/Dax, but Quark and Garak are vastly superior side characters to anything TNG had to offer, likewise characters introduced later such as Weyoun made DS9 far more interesting in that aspect.
Both TNG and DS9 have weak starts, but DS9 develops quicker in that regard, and by the time Worf is introduced is off to really good things. TNG however has always stayed in my mind, because the introduction of the Borg was so incredible, they were such a good villain.
This is where I think Voyager can never live up to things, it had weaker characters than either of the other series and it completely ruined the Borg in my estimation, because it was like anyone could trick the Borg anytime now and their actions being so predictable. That being said Voyager had some very good episodes and well worth the watch for anyone who's a fan of the other two series.
Edit: The music for all the star trek series is great, but this theme in TNG just gave you the goosebumps.
TNG is littered with episodes that feel forced, this is specific to race/world/tradition based episodes. Betazed is a perfect example of this. Troi's mother, and in fact a fair few of Troi-centric episodes are endurance trials to see how much of her counseling you can take. While DS9 is not without similar episodes, I have yet to recall an episode I basically had to abandon completely because of my being able to tell nothing significant would happen, and it was all petty, non-developmental drama.
While the Ferengi story lines are the most tedious in my opinion, but Nog, Rom, and Quark are much less interesting in the context of Ferengi society than they are on the station. Even the least interesting character, O'Brian, the bridge from TNG to DS9, has some brilliant episodes, in particular a Twilight Zone-esq episode revolving around his experiencing 20 years of incarceration in a matter of hours (Via Alien technology, the great plot equalizer).The most belabored point in DS9 is the fleshing out of Bajoran society, down the line this becomes well worth it, but going through it you get to feeling like Bajor could die and no one should give a fuck about it because it is so boring and or unreasonable.
Troi's mother can't be avoided, she is the rodden berry after all.
The episode with O'Brian is IMO the best Star Trek episode ever, Colm Meaney at his best.
The most important reason why DS9 is way better than TNG:
Jake Sisko > Wesley Crusher
My hate for Wesley Crusher has reached Sheldon Cooper levels.