I was going to ask if any of these strategies actually work and are practical?
PvT Hallucination against Mech
PvT Corsairs with Disruption Web and Dragoons against Sieged Siege Tanks.
PvZ Dark Archons and mass Maelstrom with Archons against Ultralisks.
PvZ Arbiters stasis against Ultralisks.
I've seen old games using these strategies. But I wonder if they would work 10 years later in 2017? Like Maelstroming Ultralisks, could Bisu use it against Jaedong?
On February 04 2017 04:21 WhiteKnight.US wrote: PvT Hallucination against Mech
I'd say hallucination of Arbiters for recall is standard if the Terran is trying to turtle into splitmap late game. I've also seen speed zeal hallucinations to clear mines but that's almost never a better choice of energy expenditure over storm or hallu on arbiters.
PvT Corsairs with Disruption Web and Dragoons against Sieged Siege Tanks.
This works, especially if it's unexpected. Bisu has messed around with it vs amateurs (I think D or C ranked) on Fish.
PvZ Dark Archons and mass Maelstrom with Archons against Ultralisks. PvZ Arbiters stasis against Ultralisks.
Both of these can work but DAs are waay more cost efficient than Arbs in PvZ. Hydras or scourge easily deal with them and recall isn't really that useful anyway since Zerg is more mobile than Terran.
These are cute little tactics (not really strategies) that can work, but aren't usually the best response for most situations imo.
for dweb Hallucination recalls are used in late game PvT for recalls mostly (I remember seeing it in HBR SSL11 PvT) also Bisu vs Iris on Byzantium (one of my favorite PvTs ever) Dsaqwe also used arbiters in PvZ last year TLS with mixed results (mostly recalls though) DAs are definitely good but micro intensive late game PvZ (not only maelstrom but also feedback), but progamers don't use ultras in PvZ most of the time (unless they have big advantage or at least 5+gas).
the thing with hallucinations is that each of them costs the equivalent of a psi storm. Most hallucinated units just die to fast from tank fire to be really worth it (and you'd have to invest a lot of gas into templar up-front, which is gas not spend for dragoons, arbiters or observers). And that is assuming the terran does not just decide to EMP pretend-army... I can only remember it ever being used as an act of desperation. Hallucinations are very useful when a bit of distraction or confusion is all there is needed, i.e. with drops or Arbiters going for a recall.
Protoss rarely build Corsairs against Terran, as they are not needed (Observers are fine for Scouting and a Terrans do not really build Wraiths against Protoss). To get Dwebs Protoss has to tech all the way up to Fleet Beacon and upgrades, which is again not cost efficient early on and becomes kind of redundant in the later stages, as Stasis does basically the same thing in a different way and Arbiters have so much more utility.
Maelstrom is kind of underused... Maybe we need an island map revival, as they are pretty much the counter against late game Zerg air superiority...
The thing with anything vs. Ultralisks is that Ultralisks are actually pretty cheap for the amount of damage they can absorb. So trading efficiently is important and what really brings Ultras down is high DPS (Storm, Archon, Reaver). A couple DAs are actually a nice and scary addition to a Zerg army if they already have enough of that. Arbiters, not that much. They are really expansive and against a well spread-out Zerg army surrounding the the Protoss, they really only take a handful of units out of the battle. Stasis is much better against those long-ranged, tightly packed siege lines of Terrans...
Protoss goes 14 nexus --> Makes Goons --> Stargate --> makes one corsair --> 2 base carrier and catches Flash totally off guard.
Here's the mindgame from Sky: Once Flash saw the corsair scout instead of an observer he thought Sky was going for a typical 2 base carrier like Jangbi's build vs Fantasy, so he canceled his Ebay and went for a faster third CC. Sky uses tank snipes which forced a ton of repair on bunker + the repair on the barracks from the corsair + the failed bunker rush + the switch into 3rd CC + forced armory left Flash really low on army and open to goon dweb attack. It's very weird to only see one stargate and a fleet beacon because you usually build the fleet beacon with your second stargate close by, since their build times line up. Maybe that was a small indication of something weird going on, but by the time he scouted it, he was already dead.
On February 04 2017 04:21 WhiteKnight.US wrote: I was going to ask if any of these strategies actually work and are practical?
PvT Hallucination against Mech
PvT Corsairs with Disruption Web and Dragoons against Sieged Siege Tanks.
PvZ Dark Archons and mass Maelstrom with Archons against Ultralisks.
PvZ Arbiters stasis against Ultralisks.
I've seen old games using these strategies. But I wonder if they would work 10 years later in 2017? Like Maelstroming Ultralisks, could Bisu use it against Jaedong?
Thank you.
-Everything is situational. Hallucinated arbiters have been seen quite often lately to pass over turret ring to get the recall.
-Dweb against terran might come in handy if you for some reason happen to have corsairs. For example if terran has countered your carriers with mass wraiths and you made corsairs to kill the wraiths. In this case you also have the necessary fleet beacon ready. As a first choice tech it's kinda bad becouse it's so darn expensive and eats psi limit and terran can unsiege and move away.
-DA is definetly good vs ultralisks, arbiter can be viable too, if you still have your corsairs alive to protect the arbiters. Stasising zerg units is not always the best choice, since zerg is a race that can reinforce quickly. He can have fresh units ready to flank you when his ultras gets free, or he might just attack somewhere else while you're waiting to finish the units you've stasised. defensive or offensive ramp stasis could be good, but it's a huge amount of gas invested.
Hallucinattion are not uncommonly used these days for arbiters, either to protect the real arbiters or to fake drops. Storms are not easy to use against terrans (emps + tanks/vulture snipe).
I have seen LX (legend) the chinese player using dweb in PVTS into arbiters. He won vs tossgirl in the stx invitational on matchpoint. He also tried he same thing vs Flash @ WCG and lost....
DAs are goiood against late game zerg. Feedback can kill deilers and maelstorm are good against air/drops/ultras. That siad ultras are not something we see very commonly these days...
[QUOTE]On February 05 2017 04:53 Jealous wrote: There was a game in 2010-2011ish. PvZ. I was pretty sure it was JangBi but I'm not sure. I thought the map was HBR but I'm not sure.
Basically Protoss kept using Maelstrom to catch Mutalisks flying around and then using storm to kill them haha. It was brutal.
EDIT:
I would also like to point you to these threads for future reference:
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/428360-bw-general-discussion]BW General Discussion[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/220903-simple-questions-simple-answers]Simple Questions, Simple Answers[/url][/QUOT I'm sure it it is this game that you are talking about? Sigh violet....
MC-ing workers and starting a new life. (I vaguely remember a rep, where two pros or semi-pros were playing, it was a pvt, the fancy protoss wanted to stomp the terran so hard, he begun to wage a tvt war, the hilarious part was, he lost badly after that.) + Show Spoiler +
Leaving before 2 minutes, just after realizing that the ground in the center of the map won`t allow a proxy gate, because the player was an idiot
On February 05 2017 21:33 HaFnium wrote: I'm sure it it is this game that you are talking about? Sigh violet....
I'm sorry, you didn't post a game I believe?
I highly doubt that it was Violet because he had already passed away prior to the 2010-2011 season, no?
On February 05 2017 22:23 noname_ wrote: MC-ing workers and starting a new life. (I vaguely remember a rep, where two pros or semi-pros were playing, it was a pvt, the fancy protoss wanted to stomp the terran so hard, he begun to wage a tvt war, the hilarious part was, he lost badly after that.) + Show Spoiler +
Leaving before 2 minutes, just after realizing that the ground in the center of the map won`t allow a proxy gate, because the player was an idiot
On February 05 2017 22:23 noname_ wrote: MC-ing workers and starting a new life. (I vaguely remember a rep, where two pros or semi-pros were playing, it was a pvt, the fancy protoss wanted to stomp the terran so hard, he begun to wage a tvt war, the hilarious part was, he lost badly after that.) + Show Spoiler +
Leaving before 2 minutes, just after realizing that the ground in the center of the map won`t allow a proxy gate, because the player was an idiot
On February 05 2017 21:33 HaFnium wrote: I'm sure it it is this game that you are talking about? Sigh violet....
I'm sorry, you didn't post a game I believe?
I highly doubt that it was Violet because he had already passed away prior to the 2010-2011 season, no?
On February 05 2017 22:23 noname_ wrote: MC-ing workers and starting a new life. (I vaguely remember a rep, where two pros or semi-pros were playing, it was a pvt, the fancy protoss wanted to stomp the terran so hard, he begun to wage a tvt war, the hilarious part was, he lost badly after that.) + Show Spoiler +
Leaving before 2 minutes, just after realizing that the ground in the center of the map won`t allow a proxy gate, because the player was an idiot
From ~10 days ago Larva Hallucinated his Carriers vs eOnZerg. :D I think Rain used Hallucinated Zealots vs Terran to distract Tanks fire from his units. This happened January 2017. Hallucination on arbiters works every time So many games recently.
I agree with ninazerg on the point that these aren't really general strategies as much as they are spells that can give you an advantage in certain situations. With the exception of Dweb + goon vs Terran which can be used as a predetermined gameplan to gain a midgame advantage.