Description: Hi guys! Here is my latest project, Rocky Point. It's an emphasis on rocks. Many rocks. Lots of rocks. My take on this map was I wanted to do something completely different. My older maps had a common denominator and similarity in concept, so I decided to branch out and put the aesthetics to the limit (i'm still working on a few things that aren't pictured).
Rocky Point features four (4) watch towers - two in the middle for early and mid game, and two on the corner islands which cover outer airspace as well as the outer path. This can be crucial and very beneficial in the late game. This helps make the island bases a worthy expansion for later in the game.
The primary attack paths are blocked by two sets of destructible rocks, so you only need to clear one of them to get by which still allows for an advantage using it as a choke point. The center bases also feature a rock tower which the defender can use to his advantage while expanding.
Map Features & Info: Size: 152x152 *4 watch towers (2 in middle, 2 on islands)
Rush Distances: Main ramp to Main ramp: 43 seconds
Interesting, Johanna reminds me of Ireland or something?
I'm curious about a few things:
It seems like the expo flow runs along the sides, what made you decide to use so many destructible rocks in the middle? The center of the map is already very dependant on the xel nagas, you don't think more collapsibles, or a center "bridge" would be more beneficial?
How'd you choose the placing of the third base, closest to the main?
The concept seems pretty neat overall, and I like how Irish your aesthetics are headed lol This is a very macro like map, which is kool for its limited pathing and size I do feel like something more could happen to the area in front of the nat/midground third area
Version 0.2 is released. pathing is now fixed and the map is much more playable.
On February 20 2017 13:49 Broodie wrote: Interesting, Johanna reminds me of Ireland or something?
I'm curious about a few things:
It seems like the expo flow runs along the sides, what made you decide to use so many destructible rocks in the middle? The center of the map is already very dependant on the xel nagas, you don't think more collapsibles, or a center "bridge" would be more beneficial?
How'd you choose the placing of the third base, closest to the main?
The concept seems pretty neat overall, and I like how Irish your aesthetics are headed lol This is a very macro like map, which is kool for its limited pathing and size I do feel like something more could happen to the area in front of the nat/midground third area
ASGJ ironman
The rocks in the middle add to the rush distance for early game purposes. It's really just to allow players an additional attack path that they will want later on, and by adding two sets of rocks on each side of the center, some players may want to only destroy one set to reinforce their 3rd/4th base by making it more chokey.
The 3rd in the center, closest to the main, is technically conditioned to be a 4th base. The 3 base setup is likely going to be linear which is fine. The forward bases are where they are because most of the fighting will be around the center of the map and because of this, it is optimal to stage an army near the center and reinforcing it with more resources was a good option to go with than just keeping it completely open. In doing so, this makes the low ground 3rds (south of the natural), and the low ground 5th (right of the main) more defensible and able to maintain.
I wasn't really going for the irish look, I just wanted to make something super rocky lol. I have thought about that open patch of ground between the natural and middle 3rd, but as of right now there are no official test games so I will let it be. It's a good place to set up an army.
The map looks pretty, but I think this map has numerous problems.
The thirds seem pretty far from the natural, and both are extremely open. On a 152x152 map, I shouldn't be able to draw a line from my third to my main and have it go from the edge of the map to pass the center. The center of the map is gimmicky because of how far to the outside of the map that the units have to pass. As soon as a unit leaves the natural, it's going in either direction A or B. This increases the chances that opposing units will completely miss each other, makes scouting more difficult, and makes it more likely that players can end up in a base trade scenario. Your other gimmick of using four watchtowers doesn't compensate for this lack of awareness; the two towers on the continent only watch the two fast paths, which are blocked by rocks anyway, and the islands, which aren't going to come into the majority of the games played on this map. There are no interesting Reaper pathways into the mains, so they are forced to approach from where the ramp is anyway. In the later game, all these expansions are so spread out, it's going to be impossible to defend. The choke of the natural also seems kinda far from the town hall itself.
I feel like some of these problems are because the layout simply does not work for this map size 152x152. Some areas looked stretched out simply to fill space up. I think if you try shrinking the size to 148x148 and adjust some areas to compensate, it might help.
I don't think the thirds aren't quite as egregious as Antares is saying, because with one you have a XNT to help you spot and the other you have rocks to help you if you knock them down. But they are a bit on the tough side.
Just a small nitpick but it looks like one of the geysers on the natural is inefficient.
On February 20 2017 15:59 Antares777 wrote: The map looks pretty, but I think this map has numerous problems.
The thirds seem pretty far from the natural, and both are extremely open. On a 152x152 map, I shouldn't be able to draw a line from my third to my main and have it go from the edge of the map to pass the center. The center of the map is gimmicky because of how far to the outside of the map that the units have to pass. As soon as a unit leaves the natural, it's going in either direction A or B. This increases the chances that opposing units will completely miss each other, makes scouting more difficult, and makes it more likely that players can end up in a base trade scenario. Your other gimmick of using four watchtowers doesn't compensate for this lack of awareness; the two towers on the continent only watch the two fast paths, which are blocked by rocks anyway, and the islands, which aren't going to come into the majority of the games played on this map. There are no interesting Reaper pathways into the mains, so they are forced to approach from where the ramp is anyway. In the later game, all these expansions are so spread out, it's going to be impossible to defend. The choke of the natural also seems kinda far from the town hall itself.
I feel like some of these problems are because the layout simply does not work for this map size 152x152. Some areas looked stretched out simply to fill space up. I think if you try shrinking the size to 148x148 and adjust some areas to compensate, it might help.
I invite you to look at the map in game today. Sometime between today and tomorrow I'll go more in depth on the strategy in defense. I personally never see anything productive when the entire map should be reduced and changed. It's essentially a new map.
I like this rocky beach style and the well thought-out mapdesign. Personally im not a fan of island bases despite playing terran. But the islands here look great, fit the theme very well and also have a reasonable purpose. I also love the waterstyle/color you choose. I realised that on Abyssal Reef the "water" is created by fog. I'm currently exploring that technique and I wonder if you complement your water with fog effects too sometimes or have done it in the past? The xelnagas at the center are very nicely placed in my opinion, among other things massively helping to defend a possible 3rd or 4th base. I can see this map bringing us alot of interesting games to watch and play.
- This area looks cannon rushable but im not an expert. + Show Spoiler +
On February 28 2017 11:46 KRoSc2 wrote: I realised that on Abyssal Reef the "water" is created by fog. I'm currently exploring that technique and I wonder if you complement your water with fog effects too sometimes or have done it in the past?
Fog effects won't really compliment this map as its intention was to be a crystalized, lush island.
On February 28 2017 11:46 KRoSc2 wrote: The xelnagas at the center are very nicely placed in my opinion, among other things massively helping to defend a possible 3rd or 4th base. I can see alot of interesting games to watch and play on this map.
At first glance it looks hard to hold 3/4/5 bases but the more you look at it and think about the strategy, the more possible it becomes with the help of the rocks and watch towers. In fact, your bases feel more tucked away if you expand linear as opposed to aggressively expanding toward the center.
On February 28 2017 11:46 KRoSc2 wrote: - This area looks cannon rushable but im not an expert. [spoiler][/spoiler
I tested the map a few times and it was actually fun. Expanding linearly makes the options of attack more diverse which was the goal. However I noticed a pathing bug: the middle rocks don't block single unit pathing which disrupts rush distance.
I will be getting this fixed hopefully this weekend and re-published. Appreciate any feedback
1) Re-positioned the watch towers. They were too central and watched both pathways before, which made them significantly more powerful. Now they watch over the other pair of center bases which makes those more able to be taken and protected.
2) Where the watch towers were previously, I now opened up a small path with LOS blockers. This is useful for surprise attacks, defensive maneuvers, or surrounds.
This map is definitely becoming a lot more awesome with every update.
A few thoughts for you:
I'm wondering if you could change up the main a little bit so you could bring the possible forward 3rd that "hugs" your main closer to the natural to make it a more appealing option for a third. Right now it's further away, much more open and makes you more susceptible to drops / harass. Looking at the north side forward 3rd, I feel if you could even move it say...12 grid squares to the left it would make it a lot more appealing.
Also, you should make the Main base a manmade structure as well. Give it the "blocky" type effect and then you'll have your "two home bases" and then you have to venture out into the beach/wilderness to do battle. Right now it's weird to have it a beachy grassy section as your main, then go down the ramp to a manmade structure.
Yes i've been contemplating the forward 3rds for some time but wasn't sure how to do it without making the 12 and 6 bases feel more isolated (even though they're quite protected).
Another update has occurred. I feel much better about this one as it enables better flow and base utilization.
1) Forward 3rds are more easily protected. New choke added
The forward 3rd is now more able to be protected with the addition of a central choke point between the LOS blockers. As seen in the screenshot above, terran units are placed to give perspective. This allows terran and protoss to utilize the choke for defensive purposes, while also allowing zerg to surround. Escape routes are also available.
2) Opposite-center bases changed to gold bases, as well as the addition of a second ramp
The problem before was the center bases was they could easily be taken, but hard to defend in the late game. There needed to be more flow, so a second ramp was added to allow for proper reinforcement and retreat. Since the bases are near the center and closer to the enemy camps, I felt it worthy to make the gold bases so they become more contested and valuable.
I like the improvements! One thing that I don't quite get: Gold bases that are taken rather late (4th or 5th base) don't seem to have real purpose to me. I mean you just take it during the process of expanding cuz it's there. No decisions involved. Making the gold a little closer to the main base makes it more attractive to take a risk. I don't know where exactly, just trying to explain my thoughts. Otherwise I don't see where there should be a gold center. Know what I mean?
On March 17 2017 23:21 Phaenoman wrote: I like the improvements! One thing that I don't quite get: Gold bases that are taken rather late (4th or 5th base) don't seem to have real purpose to me. I mean you just take it during the process of expanding cuz it's there. No decisions involved. Making the gold a little closer to the main base makes it more attractive to take a risk. I don't know where exactly, just trying to explain my thoughts. Otherwise I don't see where there should be a gold center. Know what I mean?
So I was deciding if I wanted the forward 3rd to be gold bases or not, and while I'm still open to that idea, it does create the scenario: whoever gets the gold first will likely win. It becomes a early game race rather than a late game boost to economy.
With the current gold bases, they become more attractive based on the fact that although they are closer to the enemy, they yield higher resources, which can be a focal point later in the game where a lot more fighting will occur. They become important to protect. If the gold bases were regular resources, the base is less likely to be taken because it's closer to the enemy camps and doesn't hold as much value or reason to be taken because "I got all these other bases I can take first". It would become a last resort base.
I see your point but i made the change more because of value and strategy rather than merely if it was easier to grab early on.
You're always humble about your aesthetics, and quick to praise others, but you're still one of the best, always have been imo. Your art just has a natural coolness to it. You just know how to make something pretty.
OP updated with new overview. I did some aesthetic changes to this update:
1) Lighting has been dimmed. It's still bright and island-y, but it does have more of a sunset look (not like battle of the boardwalk though)
2) Flowers added to foliage
3) The center of the map has more rocks near the LOS blockers to make it feel more natural as it flows into the center water.
On March 19 2017 02:19 NewSunshine wrote: You're always humble about your aesthetics, and quick to praise others, but you're still one of the best, always have been imo. Your art just has a natural coolness to it. You just know how to make something pretty.
Always appreciate guys like you newsunshine. Where is your newest map?