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FTM Ancient Confinesby Fatam (Click all images for larger, better quality versions (no blur))162x160Published to All RegionsVersion 1.6Overhead view: (~exact bounds) + Show Spoiler +Close-ups / Pretty (outdated): + Show Spoiler +
Lateral movement = easy. Movement toward your opponent = not as easy. This is the biggest theme of the map. This should encourage longer games, yet the map is wide enough and has plenty of paths where it shouldn't be turtley. Also this style emphasizes positional play a lot; you need to outmaneuver your opponent. If you just want to slam your army mindlessly into him you will probably be taking a bad engagement.
One side now has extra rocks while the other's pathways are open, so you can choose your 3rd according to your gameplan.
GL HF
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The natural is really cool. I have a lot of concerns about the middle of the map though. It's a straight line to the opponent, and with all the chokes and ramps, pushes from terran or protoss look insanely hard to stop. Even the rocks help the aggressor more than the defender, since it allows the aggressor to easily get into a good position at the front of the natural. Maybe the middle would also be better off if it wasn't completely diagonally symmetric too just to give the players a tiny bit of a tradeoff when it comes to the direction of expansion.
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I like the kind of symmetry used here. The natural makes me slightly nervous, since defending against drops and other harassment seems difficult and stressful. I think that the rocks should be replaced by something that is not destructible; having a straight line between spawns is a bad idea, even with the rocks. Maybe it would be better if there were more sets of rocks instead of just two?
A possible change is switching the natural's resources so that they are split, where half is on one side and half on the other. I'm not sure if this would make things better or worse though, since it could put them in range of tanks on the low ground, and it could make it more vulnerable to drops.
Love how there are four towers and where they are placed, it seems clever and I haven't seen a two spawn map with four towers that isn't terrible. They can help counteract the vulnerability to drops.
EDIT: I think with this kind of symmetry, you should explore collapsible rocks more, since it can really change the map combined with different expansion patterns.
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This map makes me feel things... Powerful things. It makes me question things as well. Beautiful layout, it has your innovation but breaks from your usually style in some waya as well.
The only thing i would change is make those destructable rocks narrow chokes instead
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Thanks all for feedback (here and discord)
Here is the new version. Got rid of the nat backdoors as they were not the main feature of the map and were simply drawing negative attention away from the rest of the map. The middle is quite a bit different now, with a new base that could be an interesting 4th/5th option.
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Have a feeling this map will be unberable in ZvP with the Cactus Valley-like highground in front of natural that can be forcefielded off while P kills the 3rd base.
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On June 03 2017 00:53 Ej_ wrote: Have a feeling this map will be unberable in ZvP with the Cactus Valley-like highground in front of natural that can be forcefielded off while P kills the 3rd base.
And in other match-ups siege tanks and liberators seem really dangerous for much the same reasons. I kinda liked the rocks in the previous iteration (though they did lead to some problems) because they allowed for the possibility of some flanking. Right now breaking positions in front of the highground seems nigh impossible.
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Not sure I follow how P is going to be able to hit the third while standing on any highground other than if they were inside your nat
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Small but impactful update - replaced the middle base with a small ramp. This should help with the flanking issues raised.
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Yes! I do really like this update. I really liked the idea of that base down in that little nook, but I was just seeing a little too many issues with it. This feels a more comfortable while also being a unique and fun map!
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The natural design is a cool idea. I share the same concerns as EJ_ about the comparisons to Cactus Valley, but I still love you're going for something really cool.
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+ Show Spoiler +
Overhead view: (~exact bounds) + Show Spoiler +
Version 1.5
Used Uvantak's / TLMC judges' advice for the new version.
Most importantly, I made one side different from the other (one has rocks, the other doesn't), which was a complaint by some judges (they didn't like both sides being the same, even though we've had countless 4p maps do it ). Now you can choose to expand into the defensive or open side. Could be interesting in mirror matchups especially.
Also made a few small balance changes. Nat is zerg wallable
The main mineral line is closer to the main ramp. Added highground pods as suggested in TLMC feedback thread to limit early/midgame tank vision.
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I wonder if the half mirrored/half rotated symmetry creates any spawn imbalances. Immediately, the fact that tank pushes into the natural from the low ground is stronger on one side than the other, comes to mind. What’s your reason for not making it 100% mirrored?
I like the other changes though!
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I don't think there's too many implications there, as it's very very slight, but it's something to think about. This isn't necessarily a final version - I'll continue to think about how to make it better (especially if I get some feedback that convinces me).
My initial thought was to have rocks all on one side (if the plan is to use rocks), as having rocks on one side and then rotated onto the other would make the rush distance too long, and I think it would make the map less interesting as well. Then again maybe I've made things too turtley this way.. will have to consider
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if you're going to use mirrored symmetry for the rest of the map, you should probably fix the nats too
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yeah good point. What do you think of the different sides thing? I was a little worried that the rock side might be too turtley
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Oh man, the outward rotated natural, that allowed for the centered ramp from the main was soo cool!
Still an awesome map, why wasn't this in the TLMC9?
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It was, it didn't win. Some judges liked it, some didn't. Hopefully this version is better.
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