On June 15 2017 05:39 Bonyth wrote: I think if every 2nd tournament was open to all players, there would be no complaints nor hatred. I should specify that Im talking about tours that happen every given period of time. I'm not recommanding anything yet if a one big tour took place.
That is my solution / sugestion. Let's hear others.
But as many people have stated before, tournaments are not some kind of community resource that just "happen" by themselves. Suggestions should be addressed directly to the person organising and funding the tournament, and not "to the general public" in a thread like that. Every organiser will see things differently, the issue cannot be treated in a general way in here. If if a particular organiser already made his decision for a particular series of tournament, it is not any player's place, regardless of how skilled he is at BW or how long his has been involved in the foreign BW scene, to discuss that decision.
Needless to say, the title of this thread is very presumptuous. "Should we ban koreans from tournaments?" "WE", meaning who exactly? It's not up to the players nor the viewers.
Shamtoo's video that he posted in this topic just illustrates this perfectly. Did any of the players complaining actually watched his video on the subject?
On June 15 2017 02:48 SchAmToo wrote: Woah it's like crazy that I have a video for this, no?
No it's actually not crazy! Cause... this has been going on for months.
"What do the TO's want" I've answered it 50000000 times. "They should make changes" I am making some small changes to my tour which I've been talking to Trutacz about, not registration though, that stays open.
Also I find it funny I've posted i think 2-3 times and everyone just ignores me.
Whatevs, I'm tired of you all fighting over $100 tournaments. Gonna be fun when real $$$ hits this scene, if it ever does.
(Btw the rule about HAY Registration status in that video doesn't apply here. Only applies to people talking in the HAY Thread/HAY Chat)
On June 15 2017 07:25 TheNewEra wrote: Still really interested into BD's Team Foreign Allstars vs Team Ajae series. Will the foreigners cancel their participation? Or will players like trutaCz play against strong Koreans the moment they get some sure money. Will they follow everything they wrote in this thread? Or will they play the series?
It's a different situation, because FAT vs team Ajae is a showmatch. while foreigner tournaments have a different approach, and it's not because of the money(you get really few money on BW foreigner tours), it's because of the big skill gap thanks to the advantage of the popularity of the game in korea and big player base which makes it unfair for the foreigners. it's not fun to watch or play if the difference is so huge between players from the rest of the world, against Korea(as boring as korean dominance in broodwar WCG from 2006-2010, everyone would knew that Koreans would win easily).
- Create a clear and unmistakable category for the tournaments you run. For instance "foreigners only" "amateurs only" or even "amateurs and pro-gaming affiliated players" Make it clear what you are basing your decision on, how you define your categories and then stick to it. However, be prepared to re-evaluate if need be.
Or they can do whatever they want. They can be as clear or as vague as they want. As long as they aren't committing fraud or otherwise breaking the law it's not your call. The only thing they need to evaluate is what they want. It's not their responsibility to cater to anybody but themselves.
On June 15 2017 05:48 Cele wrote: - For players: Voice your concerns in a friendlier way. I think guys like Eon Tacz, Sziky and others intend to make a meaningful contribution, but the it comes off wrong.
Or they can do whatever they want. They can be as rude and selfish as they like. They have no right to any conditions either way. It doesn't mean a damn thing how meaningful your contribution is. It's not your house. If you like a tournament play in it. If not don't.
On June 15 2017 05:48 Cele wrote:Regarding Haveatyou!: I would advocate for compromise here like others did. Restrict access for "pro gaming affiliated players" like Scan and Sonstar to every second event and use the Chinese rule. (offracing in every even game of a boX. In COSL a korean Pro has to pick a offrace against the chinese player in the 2nd 4th and potential 6th game of a bo7)
No. This is actually the worst attitude in this thread. People are literally showing up with their own cupcakes to hand out and people are actually arguing with them about and who should get them. Then people come along with this kind of opinion, like the people handing out cupcakes should compromise with the people telling them how to hand them out differently. Fuck that. It's insane. Get your own cupcakes and then you can decide how to share them. Not before.
On June 15 2017 05:48 Cele wrote:For Schamtoo and filthy: i know your mad and feel frustrated about the whole event. I think it's not about invalidating your experience as a TO in other games, that's pretty amazing. But Broodwar, esp. foreign scene these days has it's specifics and sometimes you need to adjust. There's a ton of experienced TO's lurking in this thread that will gladly offer advice and help. I recommend Gecko's post about specifica as i overall very much agree with his analysis.
This is so arrogant it blows my mind, honestly. "Hey, thanks for the free cupcakes but maybe next time make them better? I know some people who can do that."
Like, if you want to have detached "What's the best way of running tournaments?" discussions go nuts. But stop fucking acting like any person or tournament has any obligation to listen or compromise.
FYI im giving a friendly opinion to a fellow TO here. I already discussed some of this in private. im bringing this up here as my general approach on how i would go about the situation. Stating that they can run their tour as they see fit is a nobrainer, it's self-explanatory. Then again people are often interested in a different perspective, perhaps that's new to you. So with all due respect, eat your cupcakes. I baked my fair share already.
On June 15 2017 07:25 TheNewEra wrote: Still really interested into BD's Team Foreign Allstars vs Team Ajae series. Will the foreigners cancel their participation? Or will players like trutaCz play against strong Koreans the moment they get some sure money. Will they follow everything they wrote in this thread? Or will they play the series?
It's a different situation, because FAT vs team Ajae is a showmatch. while foreigner tournaments have a different approach
Yeah but the point was that the foreigners don't want to get smashed everytime by someone who has some natural advantage over them.
Foreigners already said they don't complain because of money but because of the competition in the tournaments. Where is the difference in these events then?
It being a showmatch doesn't change the fact that they will be smashed by better Koreans just like in Filthy BW or HAY.
On June 15 2017 07:25 TheNewEra wrote: Still really interested into BD's Team Foreign Allstars vs Team Ajae series. Will the foreigners cancel their participation? Or will players like trutaCz play against strong Koreans the moment they get some sure money. Will they follow everything they wrote in this thread? Or will they play the series?
It's a different situation, because FAT vs team Ajae is a showmatch. while foreigner tournaments have a different approach
Yeah but the point was that the foreigners don't want to get smashed everytime by someone who has some natural advantage over them.
Foreigners already said they don't complain because of money but because of the competition in the tournaments. Where is the difference in these events then?
It being a showmatch doesn't change the fact that they will be smashed by better Koreans just like in Filthy BW or HAY.
the answer is in front of you, FAT vs team Ajae is a showmatch, they are playing there to have some fun against known ex pros, they know they have almost no chance to win and 99% of the time will get easily defeated, it's not something serious for them. while Have at You, Filthy Cup and any other tournament organized in TL have a different approach, it's a competition for foreigners, it's the place where they can show up their skill without getting smashed by the unfair advantage koreans have.
I believe FAT team has a strong chance to win not just a single set, but perhaps win the series. I believe Ajaes are actually weaker than Scan, even though Ajaes are living legends. Brave words I'm aware, let's see if the feeling I have is good.
With these three things, I think we'll get a little more matches between crowd favorites (Bonyth/Tru/Eon/whoever). By moving to 1.18 we attract potentially a much larger crowd. I would like help getting adverts out to Defiler/ICCUP/other forums, I'm not familiar with them.
As for "hold this tour open every two weeks, only on thursday, people with names starting in the letter Y can't play, only people in Quebec/Italy/the Moon can play." I'm not one for doing those kinds of things. It's a lot of work I don't quite have time for, and again, I think the scene is too small to start dividing up.
These may be good suggestions for future TO's to consider, and again I'll offer my help if anyone needs guidance how to make a tournament. Despite what some may think, I'm pretty good at tournaments.
On June 15 2017 08:24 SchAmToo wrote: As for "hold this tour open every two weeks, only on thursday, people with names starting in the letter Y can't play, only people in Quebec/Italy/the Moon can play." I'm not one for doing those kinds of things. It's a lot of work I don't quite have time for, and again, I think the scene is too small to start dividing up.
These may be good suggestions for future TO's to consider, and again I'll offer my help if anyone needs guidance how to make a tournament. Despite what some may think, I'm pretty good at tournaments.
Even though some of our opinions are divided, I'm sure every player and viewer appreciates what you're doing for the Brood War scene. Thank you again!
With these three things, I think we'll get a little more matches between crowd favorites (Bonyth/Tru/Eon/whoever). By moving to 1.18 we attract potentially a much larger crowd. I would like help getting adverts out to Defiler/ICCUP/other forums, I'm not familiar with them.
I think the idea of loser bracket is somewhat a compromise so i thank you for that. Allthough I'm not sure if BO1 loser bracket instead of BO3 wouldn't be better. But i will leave you to that.
By the way, I hope u don't despise us, because Im not sure what u meant with 'crowd favorites'
On June 14 2017 00:59 imp42 wrote: just to give you another perspective on the topic, try out different substitutions of the words "broodwar" and "Koreans".
For example: "should we ban Americans from playing basketball [in Europe]?" "should we ban Russians from playing chess?"
etc. if you're anything like me this will automatically lead to an answer to the original question. By the way, every country has tournaments for most sports, where they ban all other countries. They're called "national championships".
Smartest thing that had been formulated as an arguement yet, this should stand as proof of the anti-ban arguement
On June 14 2017 00:59 imp42 wrote: just to give you another perspective on the topic, try out different substitutions of the words "broodwar" and "Koreans".
For example: "should we ban Americans from playing basketball [in Europe]?" "should we ban Russians from playing chess?"
etc. if you're anything like me this will automatically lead to an answer to the original question. By the way, every country has tournaments for most sports, where they ban all other countries. They're called "national championships".
On June 14 2017 00:59 imp42 wrote: just to give you another perspective on the topic, try out different substitutions of the words "broodwar" and "Koreans".
For example: "should we ban Americans from playing basketball [in Europe]?" "should we ban Russians from playing chess?"
etc. if you're anything like me this will automatically lead to an answer to the original question. By the way, every country has tournaments for most sports, where they ban all other countries. They're called "national championships".
Should we ban pegasus unicorns from little league baseball?
Somebody better anonymously buy me TL+ for this post.
On June 14 2017 00:59 imp42 wrote: just to give you another perspective on the topic, try out different substitutions of the words "broodwar" and "Koreans".
For example: "should we ban Americans from playing basketball [in Europe]?" "should we ban Russians from playing chess?"
etc. if you're anything like me this will automatically lead to an answer to the original question. By the way, every country has tournaments for most sports, where they ban all other countries. They're called "national championships".
Should we ban pegasus unicorns from little league baseball?
Somebody better anonymously buy me TL+ for this post.
On June 14 2017 00:59 imp42 wrote: just to give you another perspective on the topic, try out different substitutions of the words "broodwar" and "Koreans".
For example: "should we ban Americans from playing basketball [in Europe]?" "should we ban Russians from playing chess?"
etc. if you're anything like me this will automatically lead to an answer to the original question. By the way, every country has tournaments for most sports, where they ban all other countries. They're called "national championships".
Should we ban pegasus unicorns from little league baseball?
Somebody better anonymously buy me TL+ for this post.
WTF! Damn I wish I was as popular as you.
And thanks Schamtoo for everything
Agreed. I want to say how much I appreciate Schamtoo and Filthyrake right about now.