I'm very new, please excuse me if there's something obvious I'm missing.
TvP - FD vs zelots?
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mrwizard70
32 Posts
I'm very new, please excuse me if there's something obvious I'm missing. | ||
NasKe_
Brazil570 Posts
Also, there is some information in the Liquipedia about it. Check this page that will lead you to a few nice articles. | ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
a) you can always scout it in in time if you send out an SCV around 12 or 13 supply (after/around when you take your gas) b) you will need either a zealot-tight wall behind which your marines/vultures can sit and fire and that you can repair c) or you just build enough vultures to micro down the zealots - or lay a long minefield if you have the time to research mines. If you really face a zealot-only Protoss, just throw down another factory instead of the tank and mass vultures. Real opponents will do something else though, they will go for early pressure with their very first 1-2 zealots, sometimes produced from proxied gateways which makes it even scarier because the attack hits earlier. This means that, if you went for an FD-build without wall, you will have 1-2 zealots in your base when you have only 2-3 marines and your factory is still building. In every TvP you have to be prepared that Protoss might force this micro battle on you. Your goal is to keep your marines alive and increase their number while using them to make sure that your factory finishes, then you start producing vultures. You want to lose as few SCVs as possible, but losing a handful is OK if you keep building new ones throughout. Microing marines vs zealots is the real challenge, check out this VoD for example to see how it's done: + Show Spoiler + Flash didn't go for FD here, it's not the best example, but check out how he deals with the first zealot coming up his ramp from minute 9.20 onwards. Note how earlier, at minute 8.55 he places a depot to the right of his barracks. You have to do exactly this if you go FD without a full wall-off. Depot to the right of barracks means that the marines can pass through the gap between barracks and depot, but the zealots can't. Using this semi-wall to your advantage is essential to micro down the zealots. Additionally you can pull 2-3 SCVs against the first zealot. Taking no damage against the first zealot is very important, keep those marines alive. Note also how he is killing the probe first. The probe does quite a bit of damage too, it's very mobile but has low HP. Try to snipe it first. It will take a few dozen times (losses) until you know how to micro against this properly. You flee with the marine that is being attack by zealot(s), and you use SCVs to block the zealots from reaching the marines or you attack with the SCVs as well, they do about as much damage as marines. The best thing would be if you ask a Protoss friend to do this to you a couple of times for practice. Against two proxied gateways you can even just start to build a bunker close to your CC. If you build all your other stuff close together, then you can completely shut down the proxy attack with bunker full of marines that you keep repairing. And make sure to keep on scouting: Protoss will add a cybernetics core soon and come with goons, then you will have to transition into tanks rather quickly. | ||
mrwizard70
32 Posts
On September 10 2017 07:44 NasKe_ wrote: Don't try to learn build orders vs AI, stuff like that will happen. I guess you didn't scout the protoss? Also, there is some information in the Liquipedia about it. Check this page that will lead you to a few nice articles. I did scout, that prompted the question. Assuming you find a zealot thing getting ready, what to do? Thanks for links. | ||
mrwizard70
32 Posts
On September 10 2017 09:27 Highgamer wrote: Hardly any real opponent will do what the AI does, which is: mass up around 10 zealots and attack. If a real player (or the AI) should do this, then: a) you can always scout it in in time if you send out an SCV around 12 or 13 supply (after/around when you take your gas) b) you will need either a zealot-tight wall behind which your marines/vultures can sit and fire and that you can repair c) or you just build enough vultures to micro down the zealots - or lay a long minefield if you have the time to research mines. If you really face a zealot-only Protoss, just throw down another factory instead of the tank and mass vultures. Real opponents will do something else though, they will go for early pressure with their very first 1-2 zealots, sometimes produced from proxied gateways which makes it even scarier because the attack hits earlier. This means that, if you went for an FD-build without wall, you will have 1-2 zealots in your base when you have only 2-3 marines and your factory is still building. In every TvP you have to be prepared that Protoss might force this micro battle on you. Your goal is to keep your marines alive and increase their number while using them to make sure that your factory finishes, then you start producing vultures. You want to lose as few SCVs as possible, but losing a handful is OK if you keep building new ones throughout. Microing marines vs zealots is the real challenge, check out this VoD for example to see how it's done: + Show Spoiler + https://youtu.be/2B80Mdr4Ldo?t=5m35s Flash didn't go for FD here, but check out how he deals with the first zealot coming up his ramp from minute 9.20 onwards. Note how earlier, at minute 8.55 he places a depot to the right of his barracks. You have to do exactly this if you go FD without a full wall-off. Depot to the right of barracks means that the marines can pass through the gap between barracks and depot, but the zealots can't. Using this semi-wall to your advantage is essential to micro down the zealots. Additionally you can pull 2-3 SCVs against the first zealot. Taking no damage against the first zealot is very important, keep those marines alive. It will take a few dozen times (losses) until you know how to micro against this properly. You flee with the marine that is being attack by zealot(s), and you use SCVs to block the zealots from reaching the marines or you attack with the SCVs as well, they do about as much damage as marines. The best thing would be if you ask a Protoss friend to do this to you a couple of times for practice. Against two proxied gateways you can even just start to build a bunker close to your CC. If you build all your other stuff close together, then you can completely shut down the proxy attack with bunker full of marines that you keep repairing. And make sure to keep on scouting: Protoss will add a cybernetics core soon and come with goons, then you will have to transition into tanks rather quickly. /thread Thanks so much! | ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
I added to my post that the VoD is not the best example for zealot-pressure-defense. Maybe someone who knows a good example can link one, preferably First-Person-VoD. I also added that one should snipe the probe(that Protoss brings with the zealots) first because it's annoying but has so low HP. edit: And don't be shocked if I tell you that, with a little more experience and decent micro, you can actually shut down the Protoss-AI-Zealot-Push with just your normal FD units, meaning 1 tank, about 4-6 marines and the 2 vultures + 6 mines... or with only the vultures if you have good vulture-micro (the AI is not so smart ^^) | ||
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