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There are a few Custom Arcade maps that will help to better your skills in SC2. I can list a few I know and you list the ones that you know, I have noticed that players have to know their names and they are hard to find out there there:
1) Multitasking Trainer
2) Marine Split Challenge
3) Practice Aim
4) Hotkey Trainer
5) Queen Inject
6) Creep Spreading
7) Micro
These will help you to win, what I mean is that in multiplayer game you will have to blink stalkers, blink immortals using warp prism, quickly build without looking at the bottom right corner etc. and these actions are best taught in arcade modes.In multiplayer you learn how to play ( where, what, when, to build and how everything comes together for final victory) in arcade modes you learn how to master control in battle because you can do thousand battles in a matter of days using arcade, so its more effective than just playing broken game over and over again, eventually when you master control you will think differently because no longer you are going to lose battles where you don't use unt abilities etc.
Share your taughts on training opportunities available in the game.
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Type '' Trainer '' in Arcade section and you will end up with many arcade modes that provide training solutions.
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On June 25 2018 22:47 SC2Player000 wrote: Share your taughts on training opportunities available in the game.
Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. It's cute to be able to split marines very handsomely, but extraordinary micro is almost always completely superficial and even damaging to your overall performance. Just like having near-perfect micro without reading the game or proper micro is useless.
The game in itself is the "trainer". It's the only "trainer" that encapsulates everything you need to do at the same time. If you want to "train" using some units properly, or improving your mechanics, just play the ladder and focus on said things.
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On June 28 2018 09:19 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 22:47 SC2Player000 wrote: Share your taughts on training opportunities available in the game. Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. It's cute to be able to split marines very handsomely, but extraordinary micro is almost always completely superficial and even damaging to your overall performance. Just like having near-perfect micro without reading the game or proper micro is useless. The game in itself is the "trainer". It's the only "trainer" that encapsulates everything you need to do at the same time. If you want to "train" using some units properly, or improving your mechanics, just play the ladder and focus on said things.
I'd disagree on that of course focusing on a single aspect especially micro is likely to hurt your macro but being able to practice things over and over again which you otherwise might only have a small chance to do in a lot of matches stretched over a long period might be very helpful.
So while this might not be the best thing to do for hours, it might still be something that might help some with certain aspects that they feel they lack in.
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On June 28 2018 09:19 JackONeill wrote:
Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. [...]
The game in itself is the "trainer". [...] just play the ladder and focus on said things.
I can't believe there are still people claiming stuff like this. No top athlete I am aware of (let's include chess and go pro players) has ever become good by just playing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Top performers spend as little as 1% playing and 99% practicing.
Practice is supposed to be deliberate and focused. This is very hard to achieve if you get different matchups, different maps and different opponent strategies every time you hit that "play" button.
Breaking down the complex task into components and improve each component individually is pretty much the accepted way of getting better at anything.
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On July 02 2018 22:59 imp42 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2018 09:19 JackONeill wrote:
Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. [...]
The game in itself is the "trainer". [...] just play the ladder and focus on said things. I can't believe there are still people claiming stuff like this. No top athlete I am aware of (let's include chess and go pro players) has ever become good by just playing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Top performers spend as little as 1% playing and 99% practicing. Practice is supposed to be deliberate and focused. This is very hard to achieve if you get different matchups, different maps and different opponent strategies every time you hit that "play" button. Breaking down the complex task into components and improve each component individually is pretty much the accepted way of getting better at anything. Ye that's why we see pros playing "trainer" customs 99% on streams. Oh wait. The thing is main RTS "component" is to use its various "components" in real game scenarios. Because they are all deeply connected. There is no such thing as, lets say, "blink stalker micro" in vacuum. It's is always used in a game to achieve a certain goal. Either to kill you opponent right away or to delay an enemy timing attack or to take a certain map position or others or numerous fusions of these. Another important thing to mention is that in real game the scenarios are always different. That forces you to take a lot of factors into consideration while perfoming micro tasks. Enemy eco situation, army composition, exact amount of units you are engaging etc etc. The goals you are trying to achieve and the actual game situation dictate your actions and priorities you take, affecting your play drastically. This is how you actually train your skills. While in "trainer" maps you just micro w/o any purpose, you do not macro, do not make priorities, rendering it all almost useless.
That's why playing actual games on ladder is the best practice in SC2. 99% of the time Pros do spam ladder games. Even customs against a certain player can't be enough of a practice tool. It can improve your mechanics, yes. But it's like playing poker with the same person. You wont train your game sense at all just adjusting your play vs a certain playstyle of a certain person.
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On July 03 2018 20:17 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2018 22:59 imp42 wrote:On June 28 2018 09:19 JackONeill wrote:
Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. [...]
The game in itself is the "trainer". [...] just play the ladder and focus on said things. I can't believe there are still people claiming stuff like this. No top athlete I am aware of (let's include chess and go pro players) has ever become good by just playing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Top performers spend as little as 1% playing and 99% practicing. Practice is supposed to be deliberate and focused. This is very hard to achieve if you get different matchups, different maps and different opponent strategies every time you hit that "play" button. Breaking down the complex task into components and improve each component individually is pretty much the accepted way of getting better at anything. Ye that's why we see pros playing "trainer" customs 99% on streams. Oh wait. The thing is main RTS "component" is to use its various "components" in real game scenarios. Because they are all deeply connected. There is no such thing as, lets say, "blink stalker micro" in vacuum. It's is always used in a game to achieve a certain goal. Either to kill you opponent right away or to delay an enemy timing attack or to take a certain map position or others or numerous fusions of these. Another important thing to mention is that in real game the scenarios are always different. That forces you to take a lot of factors into consideration while perfoming micro tasks. Enemy eco situation, army composition, exact amount of units you are engaging etc etc. The goals you are trying to achieve and the actual game situation dictate your actions and priorities you take, affecting your play drastically. This is how you actually train your skills. While in "trainer" maps you just micro w/o any purpose, you do not macro, do not make priorities, rendering it all almost useless. That's why playing actual games on ladder is the best practice in SC2. 99% of the time Pros do spam ladder games. Even customs against a certain player can't be enough of a practice tool. It can improve your mechanics, yes. But it's like playing poker with the same person. You wont train your game sense at all just adjusting your play vs a certain playstyle of a certain person.
Because pros are well past the level where you need to practice details like this... Doesn't mean a diamond player is better off hoping he keeps facing the same strategy to practice a certain thing, while it would take an hour in a custom map instead of days on ladder. Yes the scenarios are always different on ladder, but it makes it that much harder to focus on what you want to work on.
I will say though, nothing in the list from OP apart from maybe multitasking trainer is as useful as going into unit test map and recreating a bigger scale engagement from the current meta. You get to know what you should prioritize when controlling your army depending on compositions, and as a result learn to handle more complex armies that require tons of actions in a very short time. Not being able to quickly siege liberators, burrow mines and stim your bio is gonna lose more games than not knowing how to beat 10 speed banes with 10 marines.
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On July 03 2018 20:17 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2018 22:59 imp42 wrote:On June 28 2018 09:19 JackONeill wrote:
Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. [...]
The game in itself is the "trainer". [...] just play the ladder and focus on said things. I can't believe there are still people claiming stuff like this. No top athlete I am aware of (let's include chess and go pro players) has ever become good by just playing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Top performers spend as little as 1% playing and 99% practicing. Practice is supposed to be deliberate and focused. This is very hard to achieve if you get different matchups, different maps and different opponent strategies every time you hit that "play" button. Breaking down the complex task into components and improve each component individually is pretty much the accepted way of getting better at anything. Ye that's why we see pros playing "trainer" customs 99% on streams. Oh wait.
Pros by definition need to make money. Streaming is a source of income. Doing drills over and over is not necessarily the most entertaining content attracting the most viewers. Hence there is a tradeoff between getting better and generating income via streaming. From an improvement point of view, streaming ladder games is probably one of the worst things you can do in sc2.
Be assured a large part of practicing is done off-stream and in custom games. I'm not talking "micro trainer" here, maybe you misunderstood me in that regard. I'm talking same map, same matchup, same build with a practice partner. Possibly resuming play from a specific point in the replay to practice a certain encounter over and over.
On July 03 2018 20:17 insitelol wrote: The thing is main RTS "component" is to use its various "components" in real game scenarios. Because they are all deeply connected. There is no such thing as, lets say, "blink stalker micro" in vacuum. It's is always used in a game to achieve a certain goal. Either to kill you opponent right away or to delay an enemy timing attack or to take a certain map position or others or numerous fusions of these. Another important thing to mention is that in real game the scenarios are always different. That forces you to take a lot of factors into consideration while perfoming micro tasks. Enemy eco situation, army composition, exact amount of units you are engaging etc etc. The goals you are trying to achieve and the actual game situation dictate your actions and priorities you take, affecting your play drastically. This is how you actually train your skills. While in "trainer" maps you just micro w/o any purpose, you do not macro, do not make priorities, rendering it all almost useless.
Combining all the different components to one whole is also a skill that needs to be practiced, so specifically laddering to get a lot of variation and apply the different components in a wide range of scenarios also has its place. For maximum efficiency however, it should be a rather small place.
On July 03 2018 20:17 insitelol wrote: That's why playing actual games on ladder is the best practice in SC2. 99% of the time Pros do spam ladder games. Even customs against a certain player can't be enough of a practice tool. It can improve your mechanics, yes. But it's like playing poker with the same person. You wont train your game sense at all just adjusting your play vs a certain playstyle of a certain person.
It's funny how you write "99% of the time Pros do spam ladder games" when you refer to what you see on stream. As if the pros you see placing high in tournaments had been streaming a 100% of their working hours up to the point they got good enough to win a tournament.
Again, training game sense might be best done laddering, but it's only a small part and only once you learned the timings in custom grinding.
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On July 03 2018 20:17 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2018 22:59 imp42 wrote:On June 28 2018 09:19 JackONeill wrote:
Frankly those "trainer" thingies are pretty near useless imo. [...]
The game in itself is the "trainer". [...] just play the ladder and focus on said things. I can't believe there are still people claiming stuff like this. No top athlete I am aware of (let's include chess and go pro players) has ever become good by just playing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Top performers spend as little as 1% playing and 99% practicing. Practice is supposed to be deliberate and focused. This is very hard to achieve if you get different matchups, different maps and different opponent strategies every time you hit that "play" button. Breaking down the complex task into components and improve each component individually is pretty much the accepted way of getting better at anything. Ye that's why we see pros playing "trainer" customs 99% on streams. Oh wait. The thing is main RTS "component" is to use its various "components" in real game scenarios. Because they are all deeply connected. There is no such thing as, lets say, "blink stalker micro" in vacuum. It's is always used in a game to achieve a certain goal. Either to kill you opponent right away or to delay an enemy timing attack or to take a certain map position or others or numerous fusions of these. Another important thing to mention is that in real game the scenarios are always different. That forces you to take a lot of factors into consideration while perfoming micro tasks. Enemy eco situation, army composition, exact amount of units you are engaging etc etc. The goals you are trying to achieve and the actual game situation dictate your actions and priorities you take, affecting your play drastically. This is how you actually train your skills. While in "trainer" maps you just micro w/o any purpose, you do not macro, do not make priorities, rendering it all almost useless. That's why playing actual games on ladder is the best practice in SC2. 99% of the time Pros do spam ladder games. Even customs against a certain player can't be enough of a practice tool. It can improve your mechanics, yes. But it's like playing poker with the same person. You wont train your game sense at all just adjusting your play vs a certain playstyle of a certain person.
You dont understand that pros already know how to play so they dont need to spend their stream time in arcade, they play ladder because thats when people pay them in donations like hundreds of dollars a day its entertainment for the viewers, I bet you would not want him to look at his notes for 5 min and him writing down all kinds of things he learns from practicing on stream. Pros have training on another level, they have most likely multiple sparing partners that help them play off twitch and they play arcades all the time off twitch.
Besides, how many streams you saw pro player examine, prepare to play against or analyze opponent that he will face in the next tournament match ? I guess 0, not a single pro you saw on streams ever analyzing or preparing to face his next tournament opponent , not a single one. Does that mean by your stream analysis that 99 percent of pro players that stream never ever analyze and prepare for pro matches ? Oh wait, there is game time after the stream as well, what the pro player does when preparing for his pro match, he watches his opponent games then goes to unit tester with his sparing partner and plays the same army compositions that his next tournament opponent likes to build. How many of these you seen on screen ? 0 ? You probably think that the only thing pro players do is play ladder while streaming on twitch because thats the only thing you see on twitch streams.
It takes about 12 minutes of game time to get a ONE, JUST SINGLE PROPER BATTLE with many units, while in unit tester with a sparing partner you can get many many battles, in fact a single proper battle wouldn't take more than 20 seconds to play out and anyone can do it for hours and its fun. Anyone will be much better at SC2 if they would choose to play arcades more.
Also, while talking in arcade training strategies topic you are inappropriately mixing macro thats the 12min game, where all aspects of the game come together and are deeply connected, with micro where you actually need to launch those storms and I mean by the definition of the word to click the buttons at the right time and hover mouse at right area and this is where macro is total 0 and I will repeat so that everyone could see this, its completely 0 if someone fails to click storms on opponents army because he did-int done that enough times.Players need to practice control in ''trainer' scenarios not in macro games. People will simply loose their will to play if they cant get those storms out even when hoard of lings is at templars reach, people need micromanagement skills right now, during their next ladder game, not after 500 games or 6 months playing and they can achieve satisfactory micro level after spending couple hours a week in arcade battle scenarios or other multitasking modes.
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God, are you serious? Pros do spam ladder 24/7 only making an exeption to play customs with their buddies to train a specific MU/tactic/ prepare for their GSL group w/e. While OP was talking about other means to improve your skills like playing "micro challenges cutoms" (which are all trash). I can agree that using unit tester maps may be helpful at times especially for newcomers. But that's exactly 1 % of playtime i was talking about.
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On July 05 2018 01:35 insitelol wrote: God, are you serious? Pros do spam ladder 24/7 only making an exeption to play customs with their buddies to train a specific MU/tactic/ prepare for their GSL group w/e. While OP was talking about other means to improve your skills like playing "micro challenges cutoms" (which are all trash). I can agree that using unit tester maps may be helpful at times especially for newcomers. But that's exactly 1 % of playtime i was talking about. maybe go read Talent Is Overrated. There is no reason why it's conclusions wouldn't apply to SC2 as well, just like any other (e) sport.
Edit: I think one key point you're missing is that many of those pros have spent 7 years getting to the point where there are now. Many even longer, transferring skills over from BW.
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On July 05 2018 02:16 imp42 wrote: Edit: I think one key point you're missing is that many of those pros have spent 7 years getting to the point where there are now. Many even longer, transferring skills over from BW. And all these years they got the same practice regime. And by that i mean: No, they didnt play marine splitting custom/micro tourneys on regular basis as a part of their schedule. Ask them if you dont believe me. Just stop pretending some artificial theoretical rules apply everywhere you want (especially those that originate from ambiguous quasi-scientific literature). Some practice methods suit certain activities, others - dont. Its that simple.
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