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In Starcraft 1, almost every matchup was figured out. I could just learn to practice certain builds for each matchup, and learn the times to expand/defend. As a beginner, I just chose one macro based build for TvP/TvT/TvZ and I was able to improve my mechanics and learn the timings of the game well.
In Starcraft 2, I'm having a lot of trouble deciding how to get better. I've tried a little bit of trying out builds I've seen on streams, and experimenting with builds myself. What is the best way to get better?
Should I be trying to copy other players top builds that are doing well, or should I be experimenting with my own builds?
Has anyone else been thinking about this?
Additional info: I just got promoted to Platinum Division. I'd like to be a skilled player but (not top/pro). I think this belongs in Strategy so I put it there.
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I think the first step in becoming a better SC2 player is waiting for SC2 to be released <_<
Or are you asking how to become a better starcraft 2 BETA player? They are two different things. Do you see where I'm going with this?
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On April 03 2010 01:21 BlasiuS wrote: I think the first step in becoming a better SC2 player is waiting for SC2 to be released <_<
Or are you asking how to become a better starcraft 2 BETA player? They are two different things. Do you see where I'm going with this?
I want to become a better player for Beta and SC2
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On April 03 2010 01:21 BlasiuS wrote: I think the first step in becoming a better SC2 player is waiting for SC2 to be released <_<
Or are you asking how to become a better starcraft 2 BETA player? They are two different things. Do you see where I'm going with this?
makes no sense imo...
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On April 03 2010 01:21 BlasiuS wrote: I think the first step in becoming a better SC2 player is waiting for SC2 to be released <_<
Or are you asking how to become a better starcraft 2 BETA player? They are two different things. Do you see where I'm going with this?
yes, you are trolling.
edit:
players that are good at beta, are gonna be the better players in SC2 retail as well, it's not about just knowing the numbers that got changed in the patch
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haha wat a useless reply. only way to get better is to play and practice. looking at what other people do is always a good idea, but nothing will make you better then getting on and practicing. even if it frustrating to get proxied every game on ladder =p
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How to become a better player? easy, play ALL the time as ALL 3 races.
'nuff said. ggl
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wow I guess a lot of people don't see where I'm going with this...
It's the beta guys.
the game gets patched almost every week. The game is constantly changing.
Becoming a better beta player is rather useless.
There are no standard BOs. None of the little intricacies of the game have been figured out yet. I daresay there isn't even a dominant strategy as of yet. Cries of imbalance fill the forums, everyone thinks every race is imbalanced.
People think broodlords are too strong.
People think banelings are too strong.
People think marauders & roaches are too strong.
Anyway, my point is, it's still only the beta. Don't worry about becoming a sc2 gosu yet.
On April 03 2010 01:31 Kiarip wrote: yes, you are trolling.
nice post. Just get the fuck out if you aren't going to contribute anything.
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^ why shouldn't he try to become as good as possible in the beta? The good beta players will without a doubt be the better SC2 players at least in the beginning, and very likely for the majority of the game's lifetime.
strategy IS important, and things are being figured out.
I think if you want to improve you should stick to a plan in each match up to get a certain advantage over your opponent, like getting an extra expansion, or getting a significant upgrade advantage throughout the game while not falling behind on expansions, or getting a very strong unit composition early, etc etc. And just keep trying to adjust your play after each game so that you can successfully get arrive at this advantage somewhere in the mid-game, while being able to defend against all the different variations that are played nowadays.
OR you can just try to find a lot of crappy luck/all-in builds like hellion drop, fast banshees, and etc. and just abuse the fact that there's so many of them, and probably no one knows how to defend against all of them yet.
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I think playing random at the beginning is a good way to start. It will let you know the game well, and you can take builds you see other players do an experiment with them. Being on both the offensive and defensive end of builds will help you learn them well. Other than that, practice your macro / micro.
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Well I think a lot about that too. (How to become a better player)
I think for now it is the best idea to keep on playing and try to train things that won't change like micro i dont think they will change how units move and stuff just try to get a feeling for the game and how 1 thing react to another... And when the game finally does come out we can try to focus on particular things.
This is just what I think that also could be totally wrong.
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Certain skills will be prevalent throughout SC2's lifespan. Copying a beta build order isn't going to help you become a better player imo. My list of suggestions to work on would be;
1) Mulitasking, and viewing speed. Don't spend more then 2-4 seconds on a single screen, unless it's a game deciding battle. Jump back and force from base, to expo, to harassing units, to scouting units, etc. Each time you jump to a new screen issue a command to one of the units, then jump away. Also briefly look at the mini map, and make sure nothing suddenly appeared.
2) Micro. Work on really good unit control, especially with attack queuing. Make sure you queue up things like siege tanks, and that you feel comfortable harassing with reapers, etc. While units might change, the ability to focus fire and dance will be very similar across the board.
3) Macro. Keep your resources low and your units constantly building, Good keybindings, building/upgrading while in battle, expand and maynard workers, etc. A lot of macro comes from practice, but just try to stay below a set # of minerals.
The rest of the game will change over beta, but you can still work on perfecting build order / counters. While the exact build/counter might not make it into release, it's still beneficial to practice.
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On April 03 2010 01:39 BlasiuS wrote:wow I guess a lot of people don't see where I'm going with this... It's the beta guys. the game gets patched almost every week. The game is constantly changing. Becoming a better beta player is rather useless. There are no standard BOs. None of the little intricacies of the game have been figured out yet. I daresay there isn't even a dominant strategy as of yet. Cries of imbalance fill the forums, everyone thinks every race is imbalanced. People think broodlords are too strong. People think banelings are too strong. People think marauders & roaches are too strong. Anyway, my point is, it's still only the beta. Don't worry about becoming a sc2 gosu yet. nice post. Just get the fuck out if you aren't going to contribute anything. Lool, chill out man, it's obvious that your post seemed veery trollish... With your attitude?
Who cares if it is beta? Who cares if things will change related to balance? Why do you think people experienced in certain RTS games are still good with other RTS games? Thanks to practice! You will obviously still have a head start compared to ppl that started later. And don't tell anyone to "get the fuck out if you aren't going to contribute anything" because your post totally didn't help as well... Yes, sure, stats may change, but core of the game will remain unchanged. Timings will be changed, counters won't. You are assuming that the game after all the patching will be unchanged and everyone will be playing the same strategies? This is so wrong, it's like telling SC players few years ago that there's no point in improving because strategies will change. "LOL YOU WERE SO STUPID, YOU WERE PRACTICING THIS FD BUILD AND NOW MOST PEOPLE PLAY SIEGE EXPAND OR FLASH BUILD BECAUSE EVERYONE PLAYS DESTINATION SO YOU DIDN'T GAIN ANYTHING WITH YOUR PRACTICE LOLOL!". Seriously? Core of the game will remain unchanged, only timings and builds will change. Practice will be rewarded
My answer to OP - basically try to mimic popular "good" builds and when you feel confident with them, then experiment. If you think that one or other part of the build is vulnerable to certain play then go on and change it, but be sure that if you experiment you can back it up with experience, knowledge and mechanics. And most important thing - be sure that you adapt to opponent. There's no point in following hellion harass with banshees just because you saw somebody going well with this vs roaches if enemy went like 1 hatch muta or something - people can play really weird things and you have to be able to adapt
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Russian Federation22 Posts
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@people that say beta doesn't mean anything
i don't know, it's not true imo. it's because of the 'good' players that dominate in beta that certain units are altered/modified/scrapped etc... becoming a better player in beta will give you a feel (a certain grasp) as to why certain units will come out the way they are come the release, and of course people during release will help re-balance the game with their strats/timings
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OK if you want the easy spoon-fed answer fine.
Massgame, watch replays, read forums, learn from your mistakes.
Same as in any RTS game. Why should SC2 be any different this early in it's life? IMO it's silly to try and become a pro while the game is still in the beta. the BETA.
You really think that once the game is released and gets more developed, that only the people who played during the BETA will be at the top? No.
On April 03 2010 02:14 Kaniol wrote: Timings will be changed, counters won't. You are assuming that the game after all the patching will be unchanged and everyone will be playing the same strategies? This is so wrong, it's like telling SC players few years ago that there's no point in improving because strategies will change. "LOL YOU WERE SO STUPID, YOU WERE PRACTICING THIS FD BUILD AND NOW MOST PEOPLE PLAY SIEGE EXPAND OR FLASH BUILD BECAUSE EVERYONE PLAYS DESTINATION SO YOU DIDN'T GAIN ANYTHING WITH YOUR PRACTICE LOLOL!". Seriously? Core of the game will remain unchanged, only timings and builds will change.
Total bullshit. Patch 7 made thors a hard counter to mutalisks, where previously they weren't at all. So don't tell me that "timings will be changed, counters won't." I'm not assuming that the game will be unchanged after patching. I'm assuming it WILL be changed, and it's being changed at a basic level every few weeks, so there's no point to try and get 'good' since the game is changing so much. The game is changing too much to try and become 'competitive' during the beta. pointless.
Your example is pointless as well. No major balance patches have changed BW since 1.08, which was MORE than a few years ago. And beta patches =/= retail patches. SC2 is MUCH more volatile during the beta than it will ever be once it's released. The core game will remain unchanged only AFTER the retail game is released, not before. Therefore you should only ask the question "How do I become a better player in Starcraft 2" only AFTER the retail game is released, not before.
Beyond massgaming, reading forums, watching replays, and learning from your mistakes, there's no 'secret trick' to becoming good at SC2. ffs, it's still in the beta.
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On April 03 2010 02:30 BlasiuS wrote: OK if you want the easy spoon-fed answer fine.
Massgame, watch replays, read forums, learn from your mistakes.
Same as in any RTS game. Why should SC2 be any different this early in it's life? IMO it's silly to try and become a pro while the game is still in the beta. the BETA.
You really think that once the game is released and gets more developed, that only the people who played during the BETA will be at the top? No.
You misunderstood. People that played beta will be ahead, this doesn't mean that they will be at the top. This means that if 2 people with the same "skill" used the same time, had the same mind, etc etc with only difference being that person A played additionally more because he played also during beta and player B didn't play in beta (and past beta they played the same amount of time) then person A would be better than person B. There's just this implication: "person played beta => person has better experience". It is not equal to your implication of "person is at the top after release => person has played beta".
But yes, this is the "clue"to improvement in any game, like you said - "Massgame, watch replays, read forums, learn from your mistakes."
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Something I do that's helped me improve is that I watch the replay of every game i play. If I lost I try to write down at least 3 things I did to screw up, If I won I try to write down at least 3 things I could have done to win faster/more decisively/etc. Critically analyzing replays is really important.
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On April 03 2010 02:44 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2010 02:30 BlasiuS wrote: OK if you want the easy spoon-fed answer fine.
Massgame, watch replays, read forums, learn from your mistakes.
Same as in any RTS game. Why should SC2 be any different this early in it's life? IMO it's silly to try and become a pro while the game is still in the beta. the BETA.
You really think that once the game is released and gets more developed, that only the people who played during the BETA will be at the top? No.
You misunderstood. People that played beta will be ahead, this doesn't mean that they will be at the top. This means that if 2 people with the same "skill" used the same time, had the same mind, etc etc with only difference being that person A played additionally more because he played also during beta and player B didn't play in beta (and past beta they played the same amount of time) then person A would be better than person B. There's just this implication: "person played beta => person has better experience". It is not equal to your implication of "person is at the top after release => person has played beta"
lol if having more experience doesn't help get you to the top, then what do you mean by "People that played beta will be ahead"?
No two people have the same skill and have played equal amounts of time and have the same mind. Completely irrelevant example. "person has better experience", that doesn't mean they're ahead at all once the game matures. Pick any RTS game that had a beta, there are tons of people who played the beta and massgamed after retail and are still bad at the game. Would you say that those types of people are "ahead"?
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I'd watch replays and play a lot and try to figure out a Build thats pretty solid for each Matchup. I mean: playing silly all-in's and cheesey strategys may be fun and all, but it's not very solid. So come up a Build that can deal with the most common strategy's well, that allows you to gather Intel about what the opponent is doing and react appropriately.
Then I'd focus on practicing that strategy and practice your macro and Micro, which means keep your money low, learn when it's appropriate to expand or when you should attack and learn when/how to switch Unit-Compositions. Micro-wise, you should watch reps and think about ways to use skills (for example Force-Field can be used in so many different ways - to block ramps, to seperate the enemy army, to shield your army from Melee-Attackers etc.) to their fullest potential.
Personally, I just hate cheesey play, but if you choose a cheesey strategy and perfect it, you can of course get a lot of wins, but I don't think you learn much from that...
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