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Hi
I'm not a very good player. I'm currently in Gold, but have been on a losing streak primarily against terran. They almost always does the same kind of MMM attack. I survive the first attack due to Spine Crawlers, lings and Roaches. Then they come with the second push and it's often here I die.
Atm I use a 11 pool, 18 hatch build with a mix of lings and roaches to defend. What is the best zerg unit composition against the MMM ball, and how to control my units during defence?
Any help would be greatly appriciated. I don't think replays makes that much sence, because of my poor execution.
What do you do Zerg players, that don't have problems with MMM? And what do you fear when you go MMM Terran players?
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I've had a lot of the same problems. To me it seems like Roach, Bane, Infestor is very good against an MMM ball but that's assuming you can survive long enough to get all of that. I'm Silver league so I could be way off but it's worked a few times. Another thing I've experimented with is quite literally a pure ling 3 base play which seems to tear through most Silver/Gold league players because they don't quite catch on to the fact that I'm not just applying pressure with lings it's actually my entire build.
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banelings is the key. usually you can handle early attacks with some zerglings, then tech to mutas and harass as much as you can so his efforts are on defending rather then on attacking you. when you have a small group of mutas (12+) you can start switching to banelings. by then he probably have turrets to defend your mutas, hell want to attack. BLAAAHH, banelings in his face.
Its easy to say though, im 1800 diamond and I still hate terran bioballs.
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What do you do Zerg players, that don't have problems with MMM? Get banelings instead of roaches, roaches don't do well. You should use both your queens at least once to create a tumor to spread the creep. You also might get baneling speed once your lair's done. If he gets some tanks get mutas and try to snipe them and the medivacs he will have. You also always want to flank; let your lings come from behind so he can't hit and run kill your banelings.
And what do you fear when you go MMM Terran players? The only thing that is scary about MM is an all-in, but I don't think taht you can consider it MM at that state of time. MMM is really easy to deal with, imo.
edit: I also don't recommend building spines against such MMM play, get extra drones instead. Spend your first 100 gas on ling speed and the second 50 on a banelingsnest.
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Get a lair and banelings and baneling speed relatively quickly and that should help you a lot. Expand again once you beat back their initial force and keep scouting them to watch for tech switches, unless they love watching their MMM army die over and over to Banelings. Throw in some Muta harass too to keep them constantly backpedaling and in their base. Lots of creep spread helps tremendously as well. I had a game yesterday against a Terran who kept going MMM and that's exactly how I won.
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Also with good creep spread and scouting, you can see his army coming way before he gets to your expansion. That way you can hide some lings/banelings below or to the side of him to flank his army when he pushes in, and watch it all die gloriously.
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Ling/Roach/Baneling crushes MMM. Basically, Banelings plus something to tank and clean up after most of the MMM dies.
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If a Terran is going all bio the best unit to deal with this would be banelings to clear most of the marines and have muta/lings to clear up the marauders and any other units he might have.
If you could post a replay it would help a lot with analyzing where the problem lies it maybe just your unit composition or a deeper problem. Also could you explain in detail do they expand after the first push? or do they stay on one base with 3 racks.
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I mean just straight up MMM is almost nonexistent in ZvT. There's almost always tanks and sometimes thors.
It's usually just mutaling baneling, though.
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Alright, I uploaded a replay for you featuring me crushing a 2k terran doing MMM+tank play.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115704-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-temple
Notice that in the end my current apm is at 732 -> I am gonna shit my pants ^^. I got thsoe 2 spines cause I was afraid of a thor drop, but basically that's how to deal with it. Creep spread could of been better but it's totally fine for gold league I guess.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
Unless your Terran player has enough APM to split marines and let marauders tank while having sufficient macro for constant reinforcements, baneling, ling, muta should be fine. Once you have enough bases, add infestors to the mix and fungal will totally own MMM. Make sure your banes hit marines.
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Ok, thx for your replies. I'll try to go with Banelings instead of Roaches next time and see how I do.
To clarify it's before tanks, and often before my first batch of mutas arrive, that I succumb to the pressure.
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As a Terran that likes his Bio army, Banglings and Mutas are the 2 units I HATE seeing the most.
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You should first provide a replay. Also search the forums for a working successful build order as I've never heard of an 11 pool build being optimal or effective at any terms. Take a look at TL's liquidpedia, they have useful information as well http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/
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One thing you should do is to control your Banelings. If 2 of your 8 Banelings survive to move past the Marauders and into the Marines behind them, you have done way more damage than if you all 8 of them hit the Marauders right in the crotch. Marauders exist to take damage for Terran Bio against Zerg, while the Marines are there to do the damage (as fast firing speed and large numbers make them benefit greatly from +1 attack, and they do full damage against all unit types).
Unless you Lair very quickly, your Banelings will not be able to catch up to Marines off creep, so make sure your Queen's second 25 energy is spent laying a Creep Tumor, and spread your Creep. It lets you see the push coming, and as long as you're on Creep, you can easily surround with your Zerglings.
Speaking of Zerglings, regular move them slightly behind the ball of Terran units until they're just running by, and then A-Move. That way your Zerglings will all attack, and restrict the Terran units' movement, so they cannot Stutter Step you effectively, or run from the Banelings.
Go Banelings and hit Marines while leaving Marauders to Zerglings, and try to engage (on Creep!) with no less than 6 Banelings and at least 20 Zerglings against the first push. It works pretty well until your Terran opponents start individually micro-ing small sections of his army.
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Ok - thx a lot Scare_Crow. That helped me to know how to control my lings/blings.
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On December 14 2010 05:10 Scare_Crow wrote:
Speaking of Zerglings, regular move them slightly behind the ball of Terran units until they're just running by, and then A-Move. That way your Zerglings will all attack, and restrict the Terran units' movement, so they cannot Stutter Step you effectively, or run from the Banelings.
This is the most important thing you can do with ling/bane vs. MM pushes. It absolutely hoses MM if you can achieve the "surround" so to speak. another thing to note is to not bother with roaches unless you see a clear indication of hellion, tank, or thor (i.e. a factory...particularly with a tech lab :p)
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Don't go roach. Unless you see at least a factory with a tech lab on it, stick with ling/baneling into muta. Generally, you want to get a baneling nest after your second gas and before your lair finishes. Keep track of whether your opponent is going to move out. If he moves out, start morphing banelings. If he's too close to morph in time, try to keep a couple banelings morphed when you think he's going to move out.
When you are in engaging, attack with the lings and MOVE COMMAND the banelings into the marines. That way, if he puts marauders in front, you won't waste your banelings on the marauders.
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you probably mean the 2nd early push with pure marine marauder on stim/combat shields/ concussive, with no support from tanks medivacs.
roach is the worse thing to use. just go speedling baneling and make sure to MOVE the lings PAST the ball and block his retreat (best thing is a flank attack, not a frontal one. lure him at your expo and ninja rush from side), then send in banelings.
dont A move lings in their face. dont ever send banelings first. engage on creep only since you wont have access to centrifugal at that time.
after you beat him silly, you have a nice window to drone heavily
ps if you want to pull it off like a pimp, mix 2-3 zerglings in the banelings ball. unless he focus fires, those lings will absorb the damage and get all banelings unharmed next to his blob.
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Zurich15234 Posts
Way to generic to give usable advice to
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