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Sup TL, just venting here.
So I'm sure you're all tired of the bad teachers/school rant kind of threads but this incident just made me absolutely furious.
So our contemporary issues teacher gave us this assignment a few days ago to read an article he gave us and write about our opinion on it. I chose an article about tracking cookies and cyber profiling. If you don't know what this is, it's when websites take your information, browsing history, trends, etc and sell it to advertisers.
Now, this teacher was obviously someone that hated technology. He spends entire classes ranting about how computers are ruining our world and the internet and video games are turning our generation into potatoes. He refuses to use the projectors in class, he makes us list a minimum of 5 book sources and limits us to 1 internet source. He tells us how he goes home at night and listens to the radio, as he doesn't own a TV or computer. I'm not really bothered by this. To each their own I guess.
Anyways, so this assignment really hits home for me as I do help manage and write content for a few websites. I spent probably 3 hours writing what was only a 10 point assignment, but I was doing bad in the class and wanted to get a good grade on it, and also had a lot to cover.
I decided to write about how these types of software are necessary for independent website developers and administrators. Without the targeted marketing of things like GoogleAds and others, websites that aren't backed by large financial bodies would not be able to sustain themselves due to costs of bandwidth, so you might see people like us having to pay to access services like Facebook, Youtube, hell, even TL.
So I'm 4 pages in to the 10 point assignment, and finally decide I've got enough here. I come in the next day, hand in the assignment, pray for a good grade and wait it out.
Naturally, I get it back today, and I got an 7. out of 10.
And, honestly, that really isn't bad for me, especially considering I had a D in the class. But wow, I was shocked. I spent a long time working on this, and I thought I definitely had the grade.
I came up to him after class and asked to discuss it with him. He obliged, and we go back to his office. I told him how hard I worked on it and my background on the subject.
He tells me, "Well, you presented a strong argument, but you completely missed the point of the article"
I asked him what point I missed.
He says "It was supposed to convince the reader to fear for their safety on the internet, and, to be honest, you really don't have the qualifications to write from this side of the fence anyways".
Sigh...
I guess that's what you get for trying to come up with something original. I mean, what the fuck is the point of asking for our opinion on something, but at the same time expecting a certain answer?
These kinds of people confuse me to no end. Oh well, rant over. I wound up getting a c- in the class, but jesus christ if I have to listen to him rant off on technology again I swear I'll punch him.
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"You took the wrong stance on the issue so I'm giving you a mediocre grade."
Pretty low. I've faced very tough markers and very dry lecturers but I haven't encountered anything like that yet.
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you're in HS I assume
sad state of affairs that teaching on a non-college level has lost so much prestige that schools are desperate enough to have ignorant luddites teaching "contemporary issues"
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go to the principal or whoever is the teachers superior and show them what happened and tell them the teacher is full of shit and get your grade changed.=
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i had this stupidly biased english teacher in my senior year of high school and she ended up getting fired
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That's kind of like when I turned an assignment arguing that pornography is a tolerable evil in society to a feminist lesbian professor. I wrote a pretty good paper if I say so myself, but I got owned with a B-. This is further questionable considering I got an A on every one of her other assignments and ended up being one of her favorite students that quarter.
Your professor, though, OP, is a retard.
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best way to deal with these teachers.
ask another teacher to get their opinion on your work (dont tell them its been marked yet just go along the lines of this is an important assignment and in its current state what grade would it be worth) if the second teacher gives you a mark around the same well you deserved it. if there is a huge discrepancy between the grades confront the first teacher (the one who is giving you the assignments) as litterly force down his throat a lecture about how being biased effects students learnings sereverly and keep asking him aggresively why he is giving you bad marks for somehting you could be getting higher marks from a different teacher.
eventually he will rage with the whole YOU SHALL NOT TALK DOWN TO ME STUDENT. you get him to go on the aggressive in the arguement then pull out " not setting a good example, your here to teach me not attack me into a corner!" in more or less different words. and well profit you get a name for yourself as well (and some girls go for the tough mess with the teacher kind so thats an added bonus )
of course dont take my advice unless you enjoy making teachers go bonkers and basicly dont need to worry about grades from certain classes.
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Who's to say the OP didn't follow the specific instructions? Clearly, the OP is just as biased as he's trying to make the teacher look like the bad guy. From what I've read, it seems like you didn't follow the topic at all. As a TA / grad student, I've seen a few great papers from pretty smart students..who missed the instructions. If you don't write what's asked of you, you won't receive the A or B you're looking for.
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Sounds pretty bad man. College professors aren't free from it either. I think most of the time it's better to write on a "safe" topic that won't fall under the teacher's bias/personal crusade. When you get a teacher that is open minded and or shares your views then you can bust out the ideas you're passionate about.
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I used to get C's in high school English all the time. I also barely passed a few intro English courses in college. Quality doesn't really determine grades in a lot of these kinds of classes. I got a C in Asian American studies, Intro to Writing, and a B in human sexuality because my opinions weren't particularly PC.
I felt like I was picking a fight every time every time I wrote an opposing opinion. I think you should just scrape together the B or C and resist the urge to yell at your teacher. It's usually not worth it.
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Of course he's biased, he's human.
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Hi, that sucks for you, and I don't really want to hijack your thread or anything, but why do we get all these "this teacher is horrible/biased/terrible/incompetent" threads and I never see any "I really appreciate my hardworking/amazing/dedicated" teacher threads?
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I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right.
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Well it kind of sound like you actually did miss the point. You were probably supposed to either support or rebut the notion of "fearing for your safety on the internet" It seems like you sidelined the issue and went off on a more tangential economic argument about the benefits of cyberprofiling despite the repercussions it has on privacy issues. Seems a bit off-topic to me...unless you linked 'em together somehow...
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Students (especially in university) fail to understand that the classroom is not a place to passive-aggressively forward their own agenda through papers.
If your plan is higher education the bottom line is that you need the grades to lay the foundation for a strong application. Nobody cares how "brilliant" you are if your professor decides to flunk you because he disagreed with what you wrote.
Life isn't fair - you either set yourself up for guaranteed success or you take a risk. To those who decide to take that risk, whether due to an overinflated ego, sheer stubbornness, or any other factor: You can't complain when things don't quite work out as expected.
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On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Why would you do that?
Going severely against the grain is a high risk/low reward option. The only thing you get is the satisfaction that you're more clever than your peers (which is a moot point if you end up getting a significantly worse grade).
I've said it once and I'll say it again: The classroom is not a place to attempt to forward your own agenda. At best it's a feeble passive aggressive way to forward your thoughts which won't make any difference at all. At worst you jeopardize the future you're trying to create for yourself.
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On November 13 2010 16:17 FC.Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Why would you do that? Going severely against the grain is a high risk/low reward option. The only thing you get is the satisfaction that you're more clever than your peers (which is a moot point if you end up getting a significantly worse grade). I've said it once and I'll say it again: The classroom is not a place to attempt to forward your own agenda. At best it's a feeble passive aggressive way to forward your thoughts which won't make any difference at all. At worst you jeopardize the future you're trying to create for yourself. My own agenda? I suppose you think I'm against stay at home dads or something?
It was a grade 10 anthropology and sociology class. I followed the instructions exactly and presented evidence showing the opposite of what was assumed to be the correct answer.
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On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right.
Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong?
I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's.
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On November 13 2010 16:20 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:17 FC.Strike wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Why would you do that? Going severely against the grain is a high risk/low reward option. The only thing you get is the satisfaction that you're more clever than your peers (which is a moot point if you end up getting a significantly worse grade). I've said it once and I'll say it again: The classroom is not a place to attempt to forward your own agenda. At best it's a feeble passive aggressive way to forward your thoughts which won't make any difference at all. At worst you jeopardize the future you're trying to create for yourself. My own agenda? I suppose you think I'm against stay at home dads or something? It was a grade 10 anthropology and sociology class. I followed the instructions exactly and presented evidence showing the opposite of what was assumed to be the correct answer.
The assignment was: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles.
So um... answer the question?
Many issues can easily be argued from both points of view - in fact on debate teams many times you're not even allowed to pick your stance. It's chosen for you and you have to defend it whether or not you agree with it. The fact that you came up with a (from what you're saying) valid counterargument does not change the fact that you didn't properly answer the question.
I mean it was grade 10 so wtv, but I seriously get confused by people who seem to glorify the "go against what the assignment is asking for / what my teacher thinks is right" philosophy.
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Either the assignment told you which opinion to take, in which case he's justified in taking off points for not following instructions, or it didn't, in which case he's not. Ask to see how he graded it if it's bugging you that much, and (high school right?) take it to the principal.
Bad habit to let shit like this happen to you when half an hour of effort will stop it happening again.
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On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's.
Sure it's okay to do so - in fact I'm a student at UC Berkeley and write papers using my own arguments all the time. However in many cases it's simply easier and safer to go with the obvious route. And when maintaining a high GPA is the bottom line for getting into higher education, it's always a good strategy to defend the professor's viewpoint rather than run against it.
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Bah. I don't know. I myself didn't care too much about my grades, so I had fun with essays (in high school; korean colleges don't ask you to write a goddamn thing with words). My high school was one of those where you could argue with the teachers all you wanted (outside of class time, as to not bother the other students), so I ended up reasonably happy.
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On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history.
On November 13 2010 16:29 FC.Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:20 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:17 FC.Strike wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Why would you do that? Going severely against the grain is a high risk/low reward option. The only thing you get is the satisfaction that you're more clever than your peers (which is a moot point if you end up getting a significantly worse grade). I've said it once and I'll say it again: The classroom is not a place to attempt to forward your own agenda. At best it's a feeble passive aggressive way to forward your thoughts which won't make any difference at all. At worst you jeopardize the future you're trying to create for yourself. My own agenda? I suppose you think I'm against stay at home dads or something? It was a grade 10 anthropology and sociology class. I followed the instructions exactly and presented evidence showing the opposite of what was assumed to be the correct answer. The assignment was: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So um... answer the question? Many issues can easily be argued from both points of view - in fact on debate teams many times you're not even allowed to pick your stance. It's chosen for you and you have to defend it whether or not you agree with it. The fact that you came up with a (from what you're saying) valid counterargument does not change the fact that you didn't properly answer the question. I mean it was grade 10 so wtv, but I seriously get confused by people who seem to glorify the "go against what the assignment is asking for / what my teacher thinks is right" philosophy. What my teacher thought was right didn't have much to do with my decision. I saw the images and reached a conclusion about them. The fact that she didn't want to entertain my conclusion despite it being relevant is the problem. If the assignment had been explicitly to find pictures of men doing things traditionally thought of as the domain of women and vice versa then my assignment would have been different.
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Assignment: Give and support reasons why Y is greater than X. If you turned in a paper why X is greater than Y don't you think you're not going to get a 10/10?
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Learn to play the game. Short of being a total suck up, just show him what he wants to see. Knowing what your boss/teacher wants is a valuable skill well beyond high school. Involving other people will only increase his bias against you. It doesn't help that it seems like you are already a fairly poor/average student before this paper.
That said, your teacher seems like a douche. Kind of reminds me of a teacher my freshman year of HS who gave me a C purely based on poor handwriting (wtf?).
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On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right.
Yes. Your teacher specifically asked you to find pictures from a magazine that show western society moving away from traditional gender roles. Instead of going through magazines and finding what your teacher had asked for, you decided (based on the magazines you had checked out) that you would turn in the exact opposite what was asked of you. Why the fuck would you think you deserve any points for that?
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On November 13 2010 16:40 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history.
The Instruction:
On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles.
What you did:
On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
You were asked to find support for argument 'A' You found support for the opposite argument 'B' How is this not a failure to follow instructions?
Naturally if your instructions were to find pictures then give an independent analysis, then you're fine. But the initial instructions doesn't seem to allow that at all. But maybe I'm just naive :/
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On November 13 2010 16:40 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history. Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:29 FC.Strike wrote:On November 13 2010 16:20 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:17 FC.Strike wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Why would you do that? Going severely against the grain is a high risk/low reward option. The only thing you get is the satisfaction that you're more clever than your peers (which is a moot point if you end up getting a significantly worse grade). I've said it once and I'll say it again: The classroom is not a place to attempt to forward your own agenda. At best it's a feeble passive aggressive way to forward your thoughts which won't make any difference at all. At worst you jeopardize the future you're trying to create for yourself. My own agenda? I suppose you think I'm against stay at home dads or something? It was a grade 10 anthropology and sociology class. I followed the instructions exactly and presented evidence showing the opposite of what was assumed to be the correct answer. The assignment was: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So um... answer the question? Many issues can easily be argued from both points of view - in fact on debate teams many times you're not even allowed to pick your stance. It's chosen for you and you have to defend it whether or not you agree with it. The fact that you came up with a (from what you're saying) valid counterargument does not change the fact that you didn't properly answer the question. I mean it was grade 10 so wtv, but I seriously get confused by people who seem to glorify the "go against what the assignment is asking for / what my teacher thinks is right" philosophy. What my teacher thought was right didn't have much to do with my decision. I saw the images and reached a conclusion about them. The fact that she didn't want to entertain my conclusion despite it being relevant is the problem. If the assignment had been explicitly to find pictures of men doing things traditionally thought of as the domain of women and vice versa then my assignment would have been different.
I swear some people enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing.
My point: You should probably search for evidence and draw conclusions which support what the assignment is asking for, and preferably in line with what your professor's own views are in order to maximize your expected point value.
Your point: I drew conclusions contrary to the assigned topic and decided to write about my own conclusions rather than find evidence in support of the topic. My teacher got angry at me because I did that.
I guess we're in agreement then? This isn't even worth discussing.
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On November 13 2010 16:50 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:40 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history. The Instruction: Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. What you did: Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
You were asked to find support for argument 'A' You found support for the opposite argument 'B' How is this not a failure to follow instructions? Naturally if your instructions were to find pictures then give an independent analysis, then you're fine. But the initial instructions don't give that type of notion at all. But maybe I'm just naive :/ You might be right if there was an argument A in the description of the assignment, but as far as I remember there was not. The images I used met the criteria and as the assignment involved a presentation I made clear my reasons for believing that they met the criteria.
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On November 13 2010 16:52 FC.Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:40 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history. On November 13 2010 16:29 FC.Strike wrote:On November 13 2010 16:20 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:17 FC.Strike wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Why would you do that? Going severely against the grain is a high risk/low reward option. The only thing you get is the satisfaction that you're more clever than your peers (which is a moot point if you end up getting a significantly worse grade). I've said it once and I'll say it again: The classroom is not a place to attempt to forward your own agenda. At best it's a feeble passive aggressive way to forward your thoughts which won't make any difference at all. At worst you jeopardize the future you're trying to create for yourself. My own agenda? I suppose you think I'm against stay at home dads or something? It was a grade 10 anthropology and sociology class. I followed the instructions exactly and presented evidence showing the opposite of what was assumed to be the correct answer. The assignment was: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So um... answer the question? Many issues can easily be argued from both points of view - in fact on debate teams many times you're not even allowed to pick your stance. It's chosen for you and you have to defend it whether or not you agree with it. The fact that you came up with a (from what you're saying) valid counterargument does not change the fact that you didn't properly answer the question. I mean it was grade 10 so wtv, but I seriously get confused by people who seem to glorify the "go against what the assignment is asking for / what my teacher thinks is right" philosophy. What my teacher thought was right didn't have much to do with my decision. I saw the images and reached a conclusion about them. The fact that she didn't want to entertain my conclusion despite it being relevant is the problem. If the assignment had been explicitly to find pictures of men doing things traditionally thought of as the domain of women and vice versa then my assignment would have been different. I swear some people enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing. My point: You should probably search for evidence and draw conclusions which support what the assignment is asking for, and preferably in line with what your professor's own views are in order to maximize your expected point value. Your point: I drew conclusions contrary to the assigned topic and decided to write about my own conclusions rather than find evidence in support of the topic. My teacher got angry at me because I did that. I guess we're in agreement then? This isn't even worth discussing. I wouldn't say that my conclusions were contrary to the assigned topic but they were probably contrary to the theme being built around the topic. Aside from that, sure, I agree. But fortunately I've never had a problem with grades so there was never a reason for me to not do what I thought was the right thing.
Edit: Before someone posts some uppity nonsense about my use of the phrase "do what I thought was the right thing", what I meant was more or less "pursue what I thought was the correct line of reasoning".
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On November 13 2010 16:13 FC.Strike wrote: Students (especially in university) fail to understand that the classroom is not a place to passive-aggressively forward their own agenda through papers.
If your plan is higher education the bottom line is that you need the grades to lay the foundation for a strong application. Nobody cares how "brilliant" you are if your professor decides to flunk you because he disagreed with what you wrote.
Life isn't fair - you either set yourself up for guaranteed success or you take a risk. To those who decide to take that risk, whether due to an overinflated ego, sheer stubbornness, or any other factor: You can't complain when things don't quite work out as expected. This makes me throw up but its so goddamn true and there is nothing to do about it. You just have to figure teachers out and tell them what they want to hear otherwise you'll never get good grades. Your "opinion" has to prove that the teachers point of view is right.
Now, this teacher was obviously someone that hated technology. This is it, work on this and he will jerk of to your papers in no time.
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On November 13 2010 15:06 Hakker wrote: Sup TL, just venting here.
contemporary issues teacher
goes home at night and listens to the radio, as he doesn't own a TV or computer
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On November 13 2010 16:56 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:50 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:40 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history. The Instruction: On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. What you did: On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
You were asked to find support for argument 'A' You found support for the opposite argument 'B' How is this not a failure to follow instructions? Naturally if your instructions were to find pictures then give an independent analysis, then you're fine. But the initial instructions don't give that type of notion at all. But maybe I'm just naive :/ You might be right if there was an argument A in the description of the assignment, but as far as I remember there was not. The images I used met the criteria and as the assignment involved a presentation I made clear my reasons for believing that they met the criteria.
He did mention the criteria for the paper towards the end. I imagine it's right since the OP didn't complain about the teacher changing the topic...anyways.
He says "It was supposed to convince the reader to fear for their safety on the internet...
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As a general comment - it's really important to read the question carefully, and make sure you are answering what it's asking. If you are discussing something that answering the question does not require, cut it. It's taking up words, using up precious words you need to write things on point. Similarly, if there are marking criteria available, read them carefully and be sure to address each in the answer you write.
Producing a well-researched, articulate essay is great. If you can do that of course it's evidence of your skill. But you can still fail an assignment even with a brilliant piece of writing, if you aren't addressing/answering the question.
I don't know if that is what happened to you here. But it's good general advice. (Especially for exams.) Your first step should always be to analyze the question.
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yo, tracking cookies and profiles != targeted advertisements. a la google adwords etc.
Targeted adverts show images designed around what your searchwords are for to display ads similar or related to what was searched for.
Tracking cookies and profiles and the like are more designed to trace where you are going and have been such that people can steal information and shit from you.
Also Mcdonalds guy clearly didn't follow the assignment. Traditional gender roles have nothing to do with being sexualized or hyper-sexualized. Remember, traditionally women were in the kitchen or in bed right? Where you thought you were meeting the assignment requirements you were actually proving the exact wrong point. PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SEXUALIZED, increasingly so as time goes on. Imagewise you just continued the trend that has been happening for years, where the point of the assignment was to show people bucking the trend.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 13 2010 16:43 cskalias.pbe wrote: That said, your teacher seems like a douche. Kind of reminds me of a teacher my freshman year of HS who gave me a C purely based on poor handwriting (wtf?). As a TA/Grad student, marking assignments with poor handwriting is one of the most annoying things to do. Further, since I'm in Math, the kids with terrible handwriting tend to make errors and then I have to track them down amongst a ton of scribbles adfasdfasdf
Super annoying.
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On November 13 2010 15:06 Hakker wrote: Now, this teacher was obviously someone that hated technology. He spends entire classes ranting about how computers are ruining our world and the internet and video games are turning our generation into potatoes. He refuses to use the projectors in class, he makes us list a minimum of 5 book sources and limits us to 1 internet source. He tells us how he goes home at night and listens to the radio, as he doesn't own a TV or computer. so u knew he hated technology and u still picked an article about it and then ur mad that u got a bad grade? there is an old wise man saying, dont kick a sleeping bear. in this case the bear is ur professor. and this bear really hates technology, and b4 he went 2 sleep he asked u 2 pick an article 2 write a paper on. would u pick a bad paper? of course not.
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I know when you are given an open topic, you really want to write what you are passionate about or what you want people to know. But this is school work and all school is, is a grade. You need to write to achieve that high grade. It might be a broken system but you have to work that system to work for you. Many times I've written on the opposite viewpoint on a topic even though I objected it because I knew my argument would be stronger and that my teacher would be biased toward that argument. Make it easier for your teachers to grade your work and they will give you an higher grade more easily.
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On November 13 2010 20:36 baller wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:06 Hakker wrote: Now, this teacher was obviously someone that hated technology. He spends entire classes ranting about how computers are ruining our world and the internet and video games are turning our generation into potatoes. He refuses to use the projectors in class, he makes us list a minimum of 5 book sources and limits us to 1 internet source. He tells us how he goes home at night and listens to the radio, as he doesn't own a TV or computer. so u knew he hated technology and u still picked an article about it and then ur mad that u got a bad grade? there is an old wise man saying, dont kick a sleeping bear. in this case the bear is ur professor. and this bear really hates technology, and b4 he went 2 sleep he asked u 2 pick an article 2 write a paper on. would u pick a bad paper? of course not.
lmao, baller to save the day.
i really hate this new generation of kids; hipsters, who try to have a superior point of view by trying to do things that are paradox, instead of trying to understand the theory behind it.
the professor in this story has a point, this generation is turning into potatoheads.
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Seriously? I mean normally i'm all for doing what it takes to get a good mark, heck i even copied assignments from past years because they were too lazy to change the assignments each year, but to mark down a student based on a difference of opinion is just not right. As long as the evidence they provided is good and not some crackpot made up on the spot BS (for example, 'intelligent design'), there is no reason to mark down that student.
Well reasoned and fleshed out arguments should be rewarded, not brought down cause you're a stubborn asshole who can't accept that someone else has a different opinion on an issue.
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Hakker would you mind telling us about word-for-word what ur assignment was? It isn't clear to me yet.
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After taking an English class for a general education requirement I realized that the writing classes you take aren't exactly so you can think of your own opinion when your professor gives you his topics but to see how well you follow directions. If you want to write a paper on what you want to write about or your interpretation of the assignment you can just write another paper after the assignment. I realized its just better to go to his office hours after to find out exactly what he is looking for in each assignment.
Not really directed at you op but I really think a lot of rants on teachers/professors are unjustified. People expect themselves to breeze through classes with no effort and when they don't put in the effort blame the professor.
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Meh. You shouldn't have to personally visit the instructor for clarification on what the assignment is. If he didn't specify a particular detail, you use your own judgement. If the assignment is unclear, then the guy shouldn't be instructing an English class.
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lol you learn quick that there exist profs that don't care about reading good papers but only care about reading how right they are i remember a paper i had to write.. on ANY topic. a persuasive paper that was meant to convince the reader of something. no other restrictions. i wrote on why marijuana should be legalized. boy was that a mistake. the funny part is i was naive and spent quite some time arguing why my arguments were solid and the paper was well-written but it was like talking to a wall. haven't failed a paper since then
edit @bdares above, that's another great way to fail an assignment. if you're unsure, you ask, you don't invent shit and expect your prof to agree with what you've invented. i've learned that one too.
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o.O you shouldn't be unsure, is my point. If the professor can't make himself clear in English, he shouldn't be teaching an English class. It's possible that your own English is poor enough that you don't understand, in which case by all means go ask him.
Possibly you failed the persuasive paper because you failed to persuade him on the topic you wrote about
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if the prof isn't making himself clear, he shouldn't be teaching an english class. sure i agree with that. but the fact of the matter is he is teaching the class and he will be marking your assignment so your excuse of "it didnt specify you wanted X so i did Y instead" isn't good enough
and yes, without going into details, i definitely didn't persuade my prof that marijuana should be legalized. the paper itself was well-written though. certainly not worth a failing grade, especially considering i've written much shitter papers later on that ended up getting 90% just because i was writing what i knew the prof would like reading. fun times
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Norway28267 Posts
now, I'm not going to comment too specificly on any particular named incident here as I do not know enough details about any of them, but from a teacher's perspective I will say one thing ; do your assignments as you are assigned to do them. grading / evaluating is sometimes a real bitch, one of the problems is that when you are grading multiple assignments you normally need to grade them from some common criteria, otherwise it becomes impossible to accurately distinguish between assignments. if two, or ten, students write about the same topic, it is not that hard to get a feeling of whom deserves a better grade of the students depending on the quality of the papers - but if one student decides to take an entirely different perspective from every other student, that student suddenly requires that the teacher makes a new list of criterias from which he calculates that student's evaluation/grade, and he loses the ability to compare it to other papers.
and in that event, it is very common for teachers to sort of, take the middle ground. "this is a good paper - but you didn't answer the intended question, thus you lose out on some of the grade you could potentially have gotten, however I also want to reward you for your work thus you still get a decent grade" (whereas if you pull the same stunt on a university exam, you might fail it entirely. )
normally, at least in norway, if a student consistently works well and has good grades through the year, and during one test or text he decides to take a different perspective from what was intented, he or she (incidentially though, this is normally done by a "he") will get a worse grade on that text or test, but that text or test will also to some degree be disregarded from the final grading process. (depending on how important it was of course - meaning that it's even more important that you don't pull any stunt like this during your midterms. )
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Well Im gonna assume you typed it. So why dont you just post your assignment online along with the marking criteria and let TL dissect it or give you tips?
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I think some people are missing the point in the gender role paper. He is saying that that the traditional gender is A. And the gender roles are moving from A to B instead of C, where C is the answer the teacher was expecting. Both B and C are moving away from A, so therefore he did do the assignment correctly.
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On November 13 2010 23:19 3FFA wrote: Hakker would you mind telling us about word-for-word what ur assignment was? It isn't clear to me yet.
I would like this too... it's hard for me to relate to you and your rage if the actual assignment he gave was exactly what he told you after you got your paper back... then you just didn't follow directions. However if his assignment mentioned nothing about that then he is just a dick, UNLESS your paper sucked regardless... upload your paper and give an exactly wording of the original assignment...
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post the article he made you read and post your paper. im sure it will be real obvious why you got the grade you did
On November 13 2010 16:56 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:50 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:40 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:28 lvatural wrote:On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
Teacher bitched and moaned about how I didn't do the assignment right. Well if your assignment was to choose pictures that show that society is moving away from traditional gender roles...and you did the exact opposite...of course you did the assignment wrong? I disagree w/ Strike and find that it's alright to voice your own perspective on things if the professor/teacher gives you a paper where you have the discretion to do so (which is usually not only allowed but encouraged on most liberal campuses). As long as the tone of your paper is genuine and sincere, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to get strongly dinged for voicing a viewpoint that stands on the opposite spectrum of your prof's. Your interpretation is naive. Draw a line and put two dots on it at some distance from each other. The expectation was that we would find images showing the dots closer together. What I found were images showing the dots further apart. Traditional western gender roles aren't at the extreme ends of a spectrum. Body image is being distorted in a way that simply has not occurred at any other point in history. The Instruction: On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: I was once instructed to find pictures from magazines showing that western society is moving away from traditional gender roles. What you did: On November 13 2010 16:13 McDonalds wrote: So I picked images that showed that we are really moving away from gender norms in the opposite direction in that both women and men are becoming hypersexualized.
You were asked to find support for argument 'A' You found support for the opposite argument 'B' How is this not a failure to follow instructions? Naturally if your instructions were to find pictures then give an independent analysis, then you're fine. But the initial instructions don't give that type of notion at all. But maybe I'm just naive :/ You might be right if there was an argument A in the description of the assignment, but as far as I remember there was not. The images I used met the criteria and as the assignment involved a presentation I made clear my reasons for believing that they met the criteria.
how the hell are you still arguing something that's just wrong right off the bat? not only in being 'hypersexualized' just one very small part of gender norms, what the hell does that mean, youre moving the opposite way in that your teacher sees???
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I remember in highschool, one of my friend wrote an essay on how in today's world, men are being treated far less well than women in an English class taught by a teacher who is well-known to be a hardcore feminist. He still got an A.
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My view on high school teachers have never changed ever since I went through it myself. For the most part (and I'm giving it a rough fraction of 4/5), high school teachers are people who failed at getting into a respectable career in their specialization/field but have good connections in teachers' union so they take their failure into schools and teach kids.
Honestly, how many teachers can you identify as "loves teaching, cares for students, and knows what he/she is talking about most of the time?" Probably much less than half the staff. At least here in Canada, teaching is a damn secure job with lots of benefits and the security/income/benefit stack up with years (i.e. seniority) NOT job performance. Naturally, those failures (teachers) sit their asses on their comfortable job and churn out more failure students.
So yeah. Don't be so discouraged, I'd advise you to keep your opinions alive but save them for the times when you're not graded for it. High school - just flow with the system and get high marks.
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Wow that teacher seems really biased. But to be honest, if he's THAT fucked up (minimum 5 book sources, 1 internet source max? lmao) then it would have been most prudent to just play his game
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On November 14 2010 09:47 writer22816 wrote:Wow that teacher seems really biased. But to be honest, if he's THAT fucked up (minimum 5 book sources, 1 internet source max? lmao) then it would have been most prudent to just play his game 5 book refs and 1 int max sounds very normal actually from what I remember, they don't want kids being lazy and just googling and getting the same 6 internet sources from everyone.
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If you think HS teachers are bad (as stupidly biased and narrow-minded), just wait for college... you'll get a degree in inverse psychology and human manipulation instead of whatever you are really supposed to learn. Now I know this isn't constructive but oh well student life is hard, specially if you care about something more than partying and mating, or if you work at same time. To not make of this a useless rant my advice for you is to adapt to teachers and do what they want the way they want. So if your teacher likes his letters taking a week to arrive to the adressee and spending days searching through the libraries for a book to gather some information, act like you liked it too and show it in your work. This way you'll have high grades without too much effort. Of course this method makes you anything but learn, but hey, this is how the educational system works. A nice wicked metaphor of society I guess. Otherwise, you can try to fight back and try to impose your point of view. I don't recommend that. You'll be head-butting against a wall. Personal experience. The teacher has the virtual power in educational system's hierarchy.
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Wow, epic fail OP - you think high school is about arguing well for your cause?
It is - if you don't care for perfect grades, in that case you're fighting a loosing battle.
High schools entire system is based on you being able to find what the teacher wants and providing him/her with that. It's a valuable lesson for which you'll have use all your life.
It's not about sucking up - unless you're weak - in that case sucking up works too, what it's really about is utilizing your social analytical skills well enough to understand what will be desired/required.
In this case it's extremely easy to see what the teacher wants i mean come on - you've already written it down in your post! You should have just written some eloquent regurgitated garbage portraying the internet as a threat to our privacy and a mind numbing drug for the proletariat spelling the death of diversity in backgrounds among future intellectuals and the rise of a homogenized elite of thinkers as inbred in thought as the Romanovs in blood.
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