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One of the main selling points of Team Liquid is its aggregation of pro player and tournament streams. The official position seems to be that the TL stream page seems to focus on being a resource to the community but in doing so ignores the give in take nature of having featured streams.
Nazgul in his banning Idra explanation said:
Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them.
Personally, I think this position is just the wrong one to take. It allows pro players to abuse being featured for profit by providing low quality streams with no user interaction. Being featured is without a doubt a huge advantage in the amount of viewers you will receive and should be based on the quality of the stream. Also being featured puts terrible streams (Huk is clearest example) on the same level as incredible ones (Day9, Sheth, and Qxc). Basically, I feel like TL is just basically saying that they will advertise for the profit of any professional player regardless of whether they care about the fans.
In order to clarify a bit, I want to use Huk as an example. I know this will come with come with a lot of strings attached because he is associated on Team Liquid but he is exactly what I find so distasteful about streams. He streams at the lowest possible quality and as far as I have kept up with hasn't made an effort to improve, openly advertises for donations, and has no interaction with his audience by playing music the whole time. All the while he makes money off of every ad that people watch on his stream.
Now the polar opposite in my opinion is someone like Sheth (I didn't choose Day9 because he doesn't do the same kind of thing). Sheth has started his show where he does stream ladder games but he answers questions from his audience, provides some commentary other than music every time he streams, and has even raised money through his viewers responsibly with his support of Day9.
These two streams are no where near equal in quality and should not be represented as equal through TL. Now the obvious counter argument is, some people only care about seeing their favorite pro play. This might be true and I am not saying that pro player streams should be among all the other streams but maybe just in a different category separate from higher quality streams. Also I could understand that some people might think this argument is a little spoiled and I admit it is but we are currently in a time of a lot of great production and those who are putting in the effort should get the credit.
Finally I just want to say that I am not trying to tell TL how they should run their site but rather give my opinion of how I would like it to be. Also, I admit I don't know all the logistics because I am not intimately involved with streaming so feel free to correct me. I look forward to hearing other peoples' opinions.
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if people want to watch idra they will watch idra no matter how "bad" his stream is, and the fact that there are alot of people who want to watch him is one of the reasons he is up there.
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HuK gets tons of viewers when he streams, so I'm guessing the majority of people don't care so much about the things you like to see in a stream. Personally I agree with you though.
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I haven't watched a wide range of streams but ones such as Sheth I do find are great. He interacts with his fans really well, I was casually watching and he played 4v4 with viewers and allowed quite a few to observe as well.
I wouldn't say that anything should happen to top players that only play music and ladder, but rather those that aren't featured that are providing great quality should reach similar status much more quickly
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I'm just glad to be able to see HuK's play, Sheth, Idra, TLO, Tyler...
You need to remember back then when all we got was 2 replays / a day, and we were STARVING for games. If I had known that few years later, I'd be able to watch pro players, play, live, from their PoV; I wouldn't have believed it =)
I don't care if HuK makes money and doesn't interact, he's giving his life to the game AND he still has the kindness to start his streaming recorder everytime he ladders.
That's good enough for me =)
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It would be pretty strange if Huk's stream wasn't featured, but if a lower league player has a really good stream they should be featured too (I don't know if they are).
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Braavos36362 Posts
First, you're implying quite a bit about whether someone "cares for the fans" just by whether they interact with their stream watchers or not. Personally, I've always seen HuK go the extra mile to take pictures, sign stuff, or talk with his fans in general. Simply because he does not do it as much on stream and plays music does not mean he "doesn't care about fans."
Second, fan interaction has never been a prerequisite for streaming. If a player is good enough and the stream is acceptable quality wise (both of these requirements HuK obviously meets), we believe it should be listed. If Boxer streamed and didn't say a word to anyone and never spoke or talked to any fans, you're saying we shouldn't feature that stream?
Lastly, you seem to think that there is some injustice that players make money off streams even when they don't interact. If this really was such a big deal, then the featured streams with "good fan interaction" should pull way more viewers than the ones with just music and thus make more ad money. I don't see what the problem is then, why not let the fans decide whether they will watch a stream?
Why should we remove someone clearly deserving and notable enough to be listed because you personally don't like how they operate their stream? Sometimes fans like watching players play and nothing else. Other fans like interaction. You're presuming everyone shares your opinion and statistically that's just not the case, or else HuK wouldn't get nearly as many viewers. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch his stream and give him ad impressions, fans are choosing to watch it despite your claims of "no interaction." What's wrong with that?
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Uhh, I watch streams because I want to see a good player play, not because I want to watch a TV show. Commentary, interaction, music, those are just stream embellishments, nice but not essential. They can help get you featured, but they definitely shouldn't be required to be featured.
In fact, I kind of dislike the fact some streamers get so many devoted viewers (read fanboys) when they aren't really top tier players. (I'm not referring to any of the streams you listed. Those are all really deserving imo. And I'm definitely not referring to Idra.)
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this blog is ridiculous, huk is EASILY my favorite streamer on team liquid (a lot of this has to do with the fact that i play protoss). no one is making you watch huk if you think its "terrible", just like no one is making me watch sheth because i couldn't care less if he talks to his fans.
some of us just want to watch starcraft and don't give a shit about viewer interaction or what music they play. that is what this site is about, after all.
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oh and frankly any music on stream annoys me; any song i can hear on a stream i could just play in my own music player and it would be in better quality. if they play music i just mute it, but if they don't i can actually hear game sounds along with my own music.
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Hmm, while I do see your point, it does look like TL has chosen to compromise and pick some players for their skills (disregarding most other factors), some for their popularity and some for their entertainment value (with a lot of overlapping, obviously). I feel like that's a pretty good solution. If you consider HuK's fanbase, it would be rather outrageous for TL not to feature his stream just based on that, add his skill and accomplishments to that, and it really is a no-brainer.
Also, for the record, I completely agree with your arguments for why HuK's stream is outmatched in quality by other featured streamers. I just feel like his status as a featured streamer is still very well justified.
On another note: not sure if the stream managers have done it yet, but I wouldn't mind seeing some streams demoted from their featured status, as with the increasing number of good streams, the average quality has increased quite a lot.
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just to get some facts straight:
- HuKs visual quality since the switch to jtv has been great
- HuK frequently has a mic and talks to the chat a lot (if he's not in hardcore practice mode)
- Why should he not ask for donations? He specifies that all donations go into buying dinner for ogs-Liquid. Plus he doesn't beg for them or anything.
- In the end, streams are all about the level of play that you see from a FPV (or casted). That is what makes them good. qxc, Sheth, iNcontroL might be a bit more entertaining than people who don't talk to their audience but that doesn't take away from the skill they display.
So before you make any further complaints, get your OP right that is full of ridiculous insults to a professional SC2 player who makes the effort to stream his games instead of just practicing quitely. And actually put some effort into proving your point.
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United States22883 Posts
There is a minimum audio/video quality of streams that we look for and we often reach out to streamers we think should be featured, if they mostly just suffer from poor stream quality. Extremely low graphics settings don't factor into this, as we don't want to impede how people play the game. We're just looking for very limited artifacting, and acceptable FPS and blurriness. While you can do stuff to raise the content level, such as streaming coaching sessions or positive fan interaction, we generally don't punish for bad behavior anymore unless it's an extreme situation. And just so people are aware, that last sentence refers to things like BM, not the Cruncher situation.
What it mostly comes down to are that there are different streams for different reasons. It's kind of gone through a metamorphosis but this is the place it is now. Popularity and winning fans has merit, as does good teaching as well as high levels of play. Some are just featured because they're dang interesting, like Ng5's Chess stream or Run_br's 3D modeling stream. They're not all featured for the same reasons, but we feel that they each have some characteristic that's worth it. What that means is that there are definitely going to be some streams that don't meet your interests.
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On May 10 2011 07:11 Hot_Bid wrote: First, you're implying quite a bit about whether someone "cares for the fans" just by whether they interact with their stream watchers or not. Personally, I've always seen HuK go the extra mile to take pictures, sign stuff, or talk with his fans in general. Simply because he does not do it as much on stream and plays music does not mean he "doesn't care about fans."
Second, fan interaction has never been a prerequisite for streaming. If a player is good enough and the stream is acceptable quality wise (both of these requirements HuK obviously meets), we believe it should be listed. If Boxer streamed and didn't say a word to anyone and never spoke or talked to any fans, you're saying we shouldn't feature that stream?
Lastly, you seem to think that there is some injustice that players make money off streams even when they don't interact. If this really was such a big deal, then the featured streams with "good fan interaction" should pull way more viewers than the ones with just music and thus make more ad money. I don't see what the problem is then, why not let the fans decide whether they will watch a stream?
Why should we remove someone clearly deserving and notable enough to be listed because you personally don't like how they operate their stream? Sometimes fans like watching players play and nothing else. Other fans like interaction. You're presuming everyone shares your opinion and statistically that's just not the case, or else HuK wouldn't get nearly as many viewers. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch his stream and give him ad impressions, fans are choosing to watch it despite your claims of "no interaction." What's wrong with that?
Your first point is right, I am implying a lot about whether someone cares for their fans but I don't think I am wrong in this case. I think based on Huk's stream quality and streaming method that when he is streaming he isn't concerned about his fans or the viewers. I am not saying that he is some hateful guy who never cares about fans, I am just saying that there is a purpose behind streaming. People often abandon their critical thinking in this case to fandom and don't realize that whoever is streaming is making money off of it. When a player streams they are putting out a product and if they knowingly put out a poor product then I feel it should be criticized and not be advertised on the site. Also to me it seems like a money grab and don't get me wrong, I am not saying Huk is getting rich off his stream but doing the bare minimum at least makes me think that his top priority isn't streaming for fans.
I don't have this idealistic view that every streamer is just in it for the fans and is willing to give up their time to just make me happy but I do feel like I should at least be met halfway. I am not saying Huk shouldn't be featured I am just saying there is a rather large disparity in quality between his stream and other featured streamers. I don't mean to specifically pick on him but he is the worst example I could think of off the top of my head. Advertising despite this disparity in quality in my mind is where I see the injustice.
Then you say it will all balance out, viewers will go to the better streams. If this was the official position then what the hell is the point of featuring streams. The point is to advertise streams that are worthwhile for the viewer and I would argue that featuring a stream has a large effect on its viewer count. So basically what I am saying is that TL is giving Huk the same advantage as streams that are much higher quality simply because he is a professional player and I feel that advantage isn't warranted. My main point is that promoting someone like Day9 and Huk equally isn't fair and that in my perfectly fair world there would be maybe another category for just pro players with music.
I understand that the world of the starcraft viewer has drastically changed with the release of SC2 and new content but personally I would just like more gradation for stream viewers. I feel that it would improve the viewing experience by connecting newer viewers directly to the type of content that is most engaging. This is obviously just my opinion of what is good and what is bad content but as viewer coming from other scenes to the SC2 scene this is how I see it.
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On May 10 2011 07:46 Jibba wrote: There is a minimum audio/video quality of streams that we look for and we often reach out to streamers we think should be featured, if they mostly just suffer from poor stream quality. Extremely low graphics settings don't factor into this, as we don't want to impede how people play the game. We're just looking for very limited artifacting, and acceptable FPS and blurriness. While you can do stuff to raise the content level, such as streaming coaching sessions or positive fan interaction, we generally don't punish for bad behavior anymore unless it's an extreme situation. And just so people are aware, that last sentence refers to things like BM, not the Cruncher situation.
What it mostly comes down to are that there are different streams for different reasons. It's kind of gone through a metamorphosis but this is the place it is now. Popularity and winning fans has merit, as does good teaching as well as high levels of play. Some are just featured because they're dang interesting, like Ng5's Chess stream or Run_br's 3D modeling stream. They're not all featured for the same reasons, but we feel that they each have some characteristic that's worth it. What that means is that there are definitely going to be some streams that don't meet your interests.
I like the idea of promoting unique streams that users could find interesting and I understand that people could find pro play educational. I guess my main problem is with lumping all the content together because there is such a disparity in the quality in my opinion. I know it might already be hard to choose what goes where when it comes to features streams but I feel like the bar has gone up with all the great streams out recently.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Huk has Kpop music on his stream.
Therefore he is an awesome streamer and guy.
Lol at this, how'd you find that anyway.
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On May 10 2011 07:29 drooL wrote:just to get some facts straight: - HuKs visual quality since the switch to jtv has been great
- HuK frequently has a mic and talks to the chat a lot (if he's not in hardcore practice mode)
- Why should he not ask for donations? He specifies that all donations go into buying dinner for ogs-Liquid. Plus he doesn't beg for them or anything.
- In the end, streams are all about the level of play that you see from a FPV (or casted). That is what makes them good. qxc, Sheth, iNcontroL might be a bit more entertaining than people who don't talk to their audience but that doesn't take away from the skill they display.
So before you make any further complaints, get your OP right that is full of ridiculous insults to a professional SC2 player who makes the effort to stream his games instead of just practicing quitely. And actually put some effort into proving your point.
If all these changes are accurate then I am glad. I mean I still have a problem with asking for donations, but that is more personal. I agree with you that everyone wants to see a high level of play but I don't agree that that is what make them good. A high level of play is just one of the factors that makes a stream good and I feel like taking only that into account in kind of myopic.
It is fine if you say that is what you like and indeed that is what many others are looking for too but with all the pro streams out there I am personally more attracted to streams that provide more. Kudos to Huk for uping his quality but I still have a problem with him sticking with the bare minimum for so long. I know that streaming isn't easy but in my opinion if you are going to put your product out there you should make sure it is comparable to other products out there.
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On May 10 2011 08:11 Kipsate wrote:Huk has Kpop music on his stream. Therefore he is an awesome streamer and guy. Lol at this, how'd you find that anyway.
Stream thread was always at the top of the stream forum, then I figured out why .
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On May 10 2011 08:12 SlipperySnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 07:29 drooL wrote:just to get some facts straight: - HuKs visual quality since the switch to jtv has been great
- HuK frequently has a mic and talks to the chat a lot (if he's not in hardcore practice mode)
- Why should he not ask for donations? He specifies that all donations go into buying dinner for ogs-Liquid. Plus he doesn't beg for them or anything.
- In the end, streams are all about the level of play that you see from a FPV (or casted). That is what makes them good. qxc, Sheth, iNcontroL might be a bit more entertaining than people who don't talk to their audience but that doesn't take away from the skill they display.
So before you make any further complaints, get your OP right that is full of ridiculous insults to a professional SC2 player who makes the effort to stream his games instead of just practicing quitely. And actually put some effort into proving your point. If all these changes are accurate then I am glad. I mean I still have a problem with asking for donations, but that is more personal. I agree with you that everyone wants to see a high level of play but I don't agree that that is what make them good. A high level of play is just one of the factors that makes a stream good and I feel like taking only that into account in kind of myopic. It is fine if you say that is what you like and indeed that is what many others are looking for too but with all the pro streams out there I am personally more attracted to streams that provide more. Kudos to Huk for uping his quality but I still have a problem with him sticking with the bare minimum for so long. I know that streaming isn't easy but in my opinion if you are going to put your product out there you should make sure it is comparable to other products out there.
It is fine if you say that this is what you like but that doesn't apply to everyone. Some people can simply appreciate the beauty of high level play.
And some streamers deliver only that, as a favor to the community. Especially if they don't have the time/character for more than that. And some decide to offer insight, for example WhiteRa while others flourish in being themselves/a character on stream (Destiny, qxc, .....). Preference thing. Period.
And you should still absolutely edit your OP. I find it incredibly insulting and it makes you look very uninformed and dumb
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 10 2011 08:44 drooL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 08:12 SlipperySnake wrote:On May 10 2011 07:29 drooL wrote:just to get some facts straight: - HuKs visual quality since the switch to jtv has been great
- HuK frequently has a mic and talks to the chat a lot (if he's not in hardcore practice mode)
- Why should he not ask for donations? He specifies that all donations go into buying dinner for ogs-Liquid. Plus he doesn't beg for them or anything.
- In the end, streams are all about the level of play that you see from a FPV (or casted). That is what makes them good. qxc, Sheth, iNcontroL might be a bit more entertaining than people who don't talk to their audience but that doesn't take away from the skill they display.
So before you make any further complaints, get your OP right that is full of ridiculous insults to a professional SC2 player who makes the effort to stream his games instead of just practicing quitely. And actually put some effort into proving your point. If all these changes are accurate then I am glad. I mean I still have a problem with asking for donations, but that is more personal. I agree with you that everyone wants to see a high level of play but I don't agree that that is what make them good. A high level of play is just one of the factors that makes a stream good and I feel like taking only that into account in kind of myopic. It is fine if you say that is what you like and indeed that is what many others are looking for too but with all the pro streams out there I am personally more attracted to streams that provide more. Kudos to Huk for uping his quality but I still have a problem with him sticking with the bare minimum for so long. I know that streaming isn't easy but in my opinion if you are going to put your product out there you should make sure it is comparable to other products out there. It is fine if you say that this is what you like but that doesn't apply to everyone. Some people can simply appreciate the beauty of high level play. And some streamers deliver only that, as a favor to the community. Especially if they don't have the time/character for more than that. And some decide to offer insight, for example WhiteRa while others flourish in being themselves/a character on stream (Destiny, qxc, .....). Preference thing. Period. And you should still absolutely edit your OP. I find it incredibly insulting and it makes you look very uninformed and dumb
First of all you seem to have one of what I find the mostly repulsive views of streaming. Basically you have this idea that the pros are doing some huge favor to the community by streaming. This is part of what I am hoping to combat. The pros aren't streaming for charity, they are making money off of it! I don't understand how you don't get this. I am not saying he is a greedy mother who is only doing it for the money but what I am saying is that this stary-eyed fan worship of players streaming needs to stop. We as viewers and fans should be thankful for streams but we shouldn't pretend that the player is doing it for us especially in this case.
I am sorry if you find my OP offensive but I read it over and changing it is doesn't make sense. I made it clear that it was based on my experience of Huk's stream. If you think it make me look dumb than that is your prerogative but simply saying that all some people care about and then pretending that makes my opinion invalid is wrong. I am fine with some people enjoying Huk's stream, and I even think he should be separated from non-pro players possibly but I don't think he should be put on the same level as dedicated productions who have proven it is for the fans.
I am not saying there needs to be only 1 best type of stream I am just saying that I think streams with high production, interaction, and commentary should be advertised on a different level. If Huk's quality has reached this level then by all means he should join the other streams but based on his streaming past I think it is relevant to use him as an example.
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I'd like streams sorted by a player's net worth; I personally believe that only rich people are worth watching and I'd like teamliquid.net's featured stream system to line up with my arbitrary preferences.
Thanks!
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On May 10 2011 09:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: I'd like streams sorted by a player's net worth; I personally believe that only rich people are worth watching and I'd like teamliquid.net's featured stream system to line up with my arbitrary preferences.
Thanks!
I like the post, thanks. I don't think it is arbitrary but I guess if you think the featured stream system is already arbitrary then adding requirements like commentary, higher quality, and viewer interaction might seem similar.
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just to put it out there, I love HuK's stream. Most entertaining by far in my opinion.
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On May 10 2011 09:11 SlipperySnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 09:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: I'd like streams sorted by a player's net worth; I personally believe that only rich people are worth watching and I'd like teamliquid.net's featured stream system to line up with my arbitrary preferences.
Thanks! I like the post, thanks. I don't think it is arbitrary but I guess if you think the featured stream system is already arbitrary then adding requirements like commentary, higher quality, and viewer interaction might seem similar. Adding tiers of featuredness is a degree of freedom more arbitrary than the current featured-or-not dichotomy. Ranking the tiers is especially bad imo, I'd mind less if there were just some icons for "commentator" or "viewer interaction" displayed next to the stream links, but separating the categories out and ranking them is a bit too much...
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On May 10 2011 09:16 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: Adding tiers of featuredness is a degree of freedom more arbitrary than the current featured-or-not dichotomy. Ranking the tiers is especially bad imo, I'd mind less if there were just some icons for "commentator" or "viewer interaction" displayed next to the stream links, but separating the categories out and ranking them is a bit too much...
Damn that is a really good idea. I didn't think of that, that could make everything a lot easier. Obviously there would be some issues with streams that have commentary sometimes and all the logistics but barring all that. Sick idea!
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What OP fails to realize is that Huk has something to offer that the the likes of Day9(I enjoy watching Day9 sometimes) and others do not and that is high level play. He can get away with it unless other streamers get better, but until then, his product is more valuable than mere talk. He speaks louder with his actions and the viewer count doesn't lie. That's what more people want. Period.
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HuK was popular well before he started streaming OR joining Team Liquid. The fact that he has a lot of viewers has nothing to do with his stream quality (or possibly lack thereof), only the fact that he has always been an extremely popular (and yes, skilled) player. Also, everyone who plays for Team Liquid has consistently more viewers of their stream, probably in large part due to the fact that this is TL.net and those names are most recognizable by visitors to this site.
If "featured" streams are determined simply by 1) player popularity regardless of actual stream quality or content or 2) player skill level (i.e. Grandmasters or "Pro" players only), then the TL staff should just come out and say that. The guidelines for getting featured are shaky at best; do a search for "featured" and you'll find many different mods stating many different criteria for how to get featured. Someone who isn't popular (read: famous in sc2 community) or a GM essentially has no chance of being featured, regardless of stream quality, how insightful they are, or how much general effort they put into their stream.
Now that said, TL staff will break their own loose "guidelines" for featuring streams and feature people simply because they are unique; someone who is female, someone who is disabled, someone who is mid-level masters or someone who was popular 10 years ago. No offense to any of those people but please, let's not act like there's any sort of "fair" or "consistent" consideration happening.
To summarize, no matter how much effort you put into your stream, you'll probably never be considered to be featured unless you're already famous, a top 200 player (which is like .01% of players), or subject to some random criteria that you'll never guess. There really is nothing you can do to improve your chances.
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Hello! MikeD here. Obviously I'm going to have a biased opinion on this matter but I have to point back to the guy that talked about helping out unique streamers. It seems really odd that there is no set requirement or guidelines as to how one get's featured and lets face it there is money at stake. I put a great deal of time into my stream. I don't claim to be a pro or top level player but my play is sufficiently good enough and my style unique enough that people people seem to like to watch me play.
I disagree with the OP. Saying that pro players that do not offer "extras" should not be featured seems silly. Clearly they have something to offer in their streaming with or without commentary based off their numbers alone. Most of the featured streamers are either well known enough in the community one way or another to get a large amount of viewers with or without featured status. Thus, they should be featured. Clearly being on a pro team, or starting out with a huge following is a pretty standard way to get featured and this I am totally fine with.
So my question comes to, what does it take to get featured for the rest of the streamers who do not fit the things mentioned above? Some examples would be streamers like Orb, VTMrBitter, Magumiexbear, and until recently ROOTDestiny. From my understanding all of these streamers who, when featured, were not on any sort of pro-team or had accomplished some great amount of popularity and were given the opportunity to be featured. This sent their personal starcraft careers in a very nice direction very quickly. Each of these players has things to offer that are not purely game quality. For the record I regularly match Orb and MrBitter on ladder and we have all taken games off each other. I believe Magumiebear is slightly lower MMR than myself but I could be wrong and we just have not matched.
I started streaming on a whim one day and quickly fell in love with the user interaction during my mass ladder sessions. Soon I was being requested to do coaching, and I started streaming that as well. Not long after that as my stream gained popularity I was offered a gig casting with Spazzcraft and more recently the ASC weekly. Some of my viewers got involved in helping me with overlays, graphics etc and we developed into what is now a daily streaming scheduled where I offer coaching, play with commentary, make tutorial VODs and have consistent community of viewers. Rarely is there a day that my non featured stream does not reach over 100 viewers. Apparently my regular viewers feel like I have something to offer. Justin.tv recently took notice of my regular numbers and offered me a partnership. Many many great things have come from my streaming and I wouldn't change any of it at any time. Myself and a few others put a LOT of time into my stream. Mon-fri about 8 hours of streaming each day. Clearly I have openly asked my dedicated viewers to support me in my stream thread because I would like to take this as far as I can go. Do I think posts in a stream thread are what is going to get me featured? No. Do I think it might pull a little bit of attention my way? Maybe. It's a dream of mine to be featured on TL so that I can see how the community as a whole might take to my style of streaming and playing.
So... I know that was a lot of words but this is a blog post after all, and if you ask my students you'll know I'm never short-winded when it comes to Starcraft.
TLDR: I put a LOT of time into my stream so I wonder what does it take to get featured if you are not a pro-player?
For more information about my stream, coaching, or casting check out MikeDsc.net
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Agree with MikeD, even though my comments were less of a plug than his
There needs to be VERY explicit guidelines on what you're looking for (if there are any) so us lowly non-featured streamers aren't chasing some pipe dream in terms of becoming featured.
Similarly, splitting featured streams into two sections like "Grandmasters" or "Pro" and "Other top streams" or something could really help differentiate and provide a more realistic goal for people who aren't top 200 but still have great streams for a number of other reasons.
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So we can all agree that Pro Players will get the most viewers obviously because they are known. So yes they should be featured. I have a suggestion though have a list that says Pro Players- then have another one that shows Featured Highly rated By team liquid staff based on "said" qualities like Content, Gameplay , viewer interaction, things like that. like me I will Occassionally click on one of the pros when i see them because im interested in their play. But my favorite streams by far are Minigunn,White-Ra, and MikeD. because they do have a lot of user interaction commentary and insight on why they are playing a match in this particular way and the thought process. These streams have a lot to offer and help progress the game in a unique way not just because they are great players. But they have something they want to give to the community.
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I think there has been a lot of agreement in general on how things could be adjusted to make the stream page better. The basic idea so far is to make another category for pro players so streams that aren't pro can make it up on their merits alone. The problem with this though is that it adds even more criteria for new streamers to already be behind on. I mean the good thing about have two categories is that there isn't complete separation between established and new streams. At least I think it is something to think about when it comes to possible changing how streams are listed.
I think a lot of the anxiety comes from the loose rules associated with becoming featured and the idea that the stream page is a resource rather than a biased page TL moderators favorite streams. I am not saying either of these things is bad it just seems like they have room for error. I guess the position of TL would be that it is working for the public as a whole so if it isn't broken why fix it. If the set rules then there would probably be a shitstorm of unfairness whining so at least they are on the record for saying it isn't supposed to be fair I guess. This kind of bleeds into their idea of the stream page as a resource. When I think of resources I think of them as unbaised but this just might not be TL's take on the situation. In the end I guess they will just do whatever works for them and they have always erred on the side of moderator control but maybe if there could be more user interaction the stream page could really be a resource like liquipedia.
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I 100% agree with what Hot_Bid said. Don't feel like spamming this post anymore by quoting.
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