This isn't a girl blog per se, mostly because I won't be referencing a particular person, but I do want to discuss girls and attractiveness.
Obviously attractiveness is a subjective phenomenon. We like what we like, whether that be socially instilled in us, or genetically through particular pheromones, it doesn't really matter. There are no real rational reasons behind being attracted to someone. Being in a relationship can be done for rational reasons. But physical, animal attraction happens without forethought.
That being said, if you pay attention, you can easily see certain qualities that attract you. Most people know the surface level qualities that they find attractive. Some people like skinny girls, others care more about certain sexual body parts more than a particular weight, others focus on a pretty face, etc. Those can all form in any number of combinations. Often though, I find the superficial isn't a good baseline because it involves a range; it is very rarely specific enough. Personalities have an effect, but not in the sense of "Oh I love her personality (but she is kind of ugly)." The effect is gradual, and as you get to know someone, they actually become more physically attractive to you. Whereas once you thought they looked ok, not particularly fascinating, as you get to know this girl she actually becomes beautiful in a very unique way to you. You enjoy certain quirks and ticks that make her unique, and those movements in themselves are beautiful/fascinating which tilts your entire former analysis of her, even though she really has not change physically.
That is all well and good, but really noticing that you find a girl more physically attractive does not really encompass what is happening. In reality, her personality is magnetic to you. The effect of this is your greater attraction, but the cause is subtle, and has to be really noticed.
In practical terms, none of this is important. But as I enjoy thoroughly self-analyzing, I find myself thinking along these lines and trying to figure out what I happen to find attractive in a personality. The obvious and surface level ones are probably going to be quirkiness/uniqueness (like a hipster attitude, even though I am not a hipster), a quick wit, and an interest in pop culture consumption as a way of intellectual stimulation (at least some of the time). All of that stuff is simple and I can easily find that out from a few conversations, although obviously not the full extent.
What I really find interesting is the lower levels of the attractiveness, and then it comes in two parts. The first would be that I am attracted to a certain hurt or broken aspect to a girl. I do not mean to say that I troll bars looking for girls with daddy issues for an easy lay (because apparently people do that), but rather that I notice that I somehow find a girl more real and interesting if she happens to have been hurt in the past. It adds a certain fragility to her character that I find graceful, even noble. I feel a sense of protectiveness, and desire to comfort, that at the same time I find kind of a turn on (I'm a little messed up, to the say the least).
The other would a kind of venomousness. I wrote a blog post a while back about Dostoevsky and vileness, and I how I hated pettiness. This is different than that. Pettiness hurts for little reason, and little goal beyond the hurting itself. Pettiness is akin to griefers or trolls, where the desire for pain is the end in itself. Venomousness usually involves being hurt back, or like a Lady McBeth situation. Pain might still be an end goal, but there are reasons for causing pain. There is a fiery intensity, a passion that stems from the venom. The best way to describe this would be hot anger versus cold anger. I don't find calculating anger to be particularly attractive, but anger in the moment of occurrence to be wild in all the right ways. It's like being bitten by someone and having them draw blood. I might freak out in real life, but thinking back on it, or imagining it in the future is kind of sexy.
This isn't to say that calculating can't be hot either, but it has to be done with a certain confidence. It is a passionate calculating, like one done mid affair rather than in dark cellars, sort of like in this song: Emiliana Torrini describes this awful scene of a husband with a cheating wife, but it seems as if he himself is in a torrid affair with the woman singing, and that kind of venom is somehow very attractive to me.
But to make this barely relevant, the reason I was thinking of it today was because I was thinking about the BroodWar and SC2 campaign (a friend of mine just beat BroodWar for the first time), and I realized how much more sexy Kerrigan is in SC2. The reason being that she exhibits that hot venomousness in her interactions with Zeratul. Whereas in the first game and expansion she often seemed like a child, and petulant in her anger, in Wings of Liberty she exudes confidence and dark desire. Zerg are not attractive, but the scene of her getting her scaly wing cut by Zeratul, not being fazed while it grows back, and then casually placing her hand on the hydralisk's hard outer shell was so cool, so smooth, that I couldn't help but think "Wow. Kerrigan is hot!" (+ Show Spoiler +
)
As for the broken aspect of a girl, that doesn't relate to Starcraft. I just happened to watch Must Love Dogs and Pride and Prejudice today, because I have no life.
Anyways, if you happen to read all of that, then thank you ^_^. You guys are cool.
I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
I'm assuming you're grouping yourself with the "attractive" group. Seems like your're a shallow asshole to me. I can't believe how hard you contradicted yourself in this post. Grow up.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Which is the definition of shallow I respect persons because of their actions, not because of accidents they may not have had, medical conditions they may not be in or general good looks they might not have.
Actually at my top list of cool people i know, there are about an equal amount of handsome and not handsome people.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
I'm sure I subconsciously make quick judgments based on appearance, but this is exactly something I have been trying to stray away from. Everybody deserves your respect regardless of how he or she looks. That's something you should give to him/her until you actually get to know this person. I had a conversation about this a couple days ago with my mom, and really want to force myself to judge people because everybody deserves a chance.
EDIT: What kind of people you spend time with then? Some of my closest guy friends would be considered below average. I don't think I would have gotten close to them if I had your attitude. Your loss.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ugly in what sense? Depending on how you answer you might be able to redeem yourself.
The reality of it all is that a person will find many women "attractive", good-looking and quite enticingly gorgeous.
However, in the end, most people will go for women they are about the same "level" of beauty, inside and outside (and I wish I could reference the source, it's been a few years about this phenomenon or test).
To be bold, I would say you find the "hurt" part of a person not because they are more "real" in general, but rather because it is something you can relate to or recognize easily and thus match yourself with.
But that's me assuming, which I generally try not to.
Try watching "Blue Valentine" for a "real" love:
I personally think you'd love it and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
And vice-versa apparently. Those who are strong in their skewed views of people are generally unattractive themselves and know this. They put out this high standard to compensate or excuse themselves for their inability to achieve much of a social level.
I hope this isn't you and I also hope you don't live by these absolutes you callously talk so openly about.
I find it interesting how as you get to know someone, the opposite of what you mentioned can happen as well. There was one girl that I found stunning when I first met her; however, as we became friends and I got to know her better basically all of the physical attraction went away as I realized I could never fathom getting into a relationship with her (she's kinda crazy lol).
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
The sad thing is that the way they look could be a big factor as to how their personality has developed, e.g. being bullied causing anxiety issues and such.
OP, I found myself agreeing with you in the beginning but eventually I can't relate to almost anything you've written about your taste/type and the song sounded weird as hell.
On June 27 2011 15:48 Duoma wrote: Forgive me if I'm missing the point.... but why exactly does this exist as a TL blog rather than a page in you journal?
How exactly do you expect people to respond to this post?
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
On June 27 2011 15:31 Torte de Lini wrote: The reality of it all is that a person will find many women "attractive", good-looking and quite enticingly gorgeous.
However, in the end, most people will go for women they are about the same "level" of beauty, inside and outside (and I wish I could reference the source, it's been a few years about this phenomenon or test).
To be bold, I would say you find the "hurt" part of a person not because they are more "real" in general, but rather because it is something you can relate to or recognize easily and thus match yourself with.
But that's me assuming, which I generally try not to.
Try watching "Blue Valentine" for a "real" love.
I personally think you'd love it and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I would say that your first point is most likely correct. As I often might feel a certain fragility in myself, perhaps that attracts me as well. I cannot be completely sure about this though, since I tend to not want to show that fragility in a relationship, and regret doing so when I inevitably do so. I can't honestly say whether or not your assumption is correct, but it very well might be.
As for "Blue Valentine", I saw it, and to be honest was not particularly impressed. I didn't find the characters particularly attractive to be honest. Sure they felt real, and the movie was interesting enough, but there was just a lot missing for me. It is beautifully shot and acted though, just felt sort of plotless.
I wonder if you have seen "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset". I consider that set to be the most "real" movies involving a relationship I have ever seen. Both characters have slight moments where they let their guard down in both movies that represent fragility that I find lacking in "Blue Valentine". It often felt in the latter as if only the guy showed those moments, and poorly worded, whereas the girl often did not. The "Before" movies had both of them expose themselves emotionally. I don't know, in the end it may just be that one appeals to me more than the other, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about either as well ^^.
On June 27 2011 15:33 emperorchampion wrote: I find it interesting how as you get to know someone, the opposite of what you mentioned can happen as well. There was one girl that I found stunning when I first met her; however, as we became friends and I got to know her better basically all of the physical attraction went away as I realized I could never fathom getting into a relationship with her (she's kinda crazy lol).
I have noticed the same thing, I just usually don't focus on it as much since I try to distance myself from people like that. But good catch on that. I certainly have had the same experience.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Thank you for, I presume, not reading it fully. Or if you did, then you absolutely missed the point. Personally, I don't care that you are "shallow" as the word means very little to me, but I just find your conclusion difficult to fathom. How is it the case that 99% of the time a person's appearance reflects their personality? I just have never had that experience, so good for you, I guess?
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
And vice-versa apparently. Those who are strong in their skewed views of people are generally unattractive themselves and know this. They put out this high standard to compensate or excuse themselves for their inability to achieve much of a social level.
I hope this isn't you and I also hope you don't live by these absolutes you callously talk so openly about.
But i and a whole lot of other people really love kpop (its all about looks, incase you didnt know), does that mean i fall under this category? Because that just sounds a bit silly to me
On June 27 2011 15:48 Duoma wrote: Forgive me if I'm missing the point.... but why exactly does this exist as a TL blog rather than a page in you journal?
How exactly do you expect people to respond to this post?
I don't know. I did say I related it by talking about Kerrigan as this is a Starcraft site, but I mean looking at it honestly, you are absolutely right, this could basically exist as a page in my journal. I just figured I would share, since I like the community. You don't have to respond. You don't even have to read it.
Why does this bother you seems like a more apt question? Do you think I am actively worsening the Blog section of TeamLiquid by posting? (That wasn't sarcasm by the way, I am sincerely interested).
On June 27 2011 15:44 JieXian wrote: OP, I found myself agreeing with you in the beginning but eventually I can't relate to almost anything you've written about your taste/type and the song sounded weird as hell.
But damn the song's good.
Thanks OP
Haha, yeah, I can't say I'm not pretty messed up, but I spend a lot of time in my head and this is what I come up with. And yeah, I love the song too. I heard at first from the show Luther, so here is another one which is pretty cool and sexy, but not exactly in the same way: + Show Spoiler +
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Thank you for, I presume, not reading it fully. Or if you did, then you absolutely missed the point. Personally, I don't care that you are "shallow" as the word means very little to me, but I just find your conclusion difficult to fathom. How is it the case that 99% of the time a person's appearance reflects their personality? I just have never had that experience, so good for you, I guess?
?? I read the post, I just don't believe it or connect to it so I stated my opinion to prompt discussion, sorry for sullying your holy blog.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Thank you for, I presume, not reading it fully. Or if you did, then you absolutely missed the point. Personally, I don't care that you are "shallow" as the word means very little to me, but I just find your conclusion difficult to fathom. How is it the case that 99% of the time a person's appearance reflects their personality? I just have never had that experience, so good for you, I guess?
?? I read the post, I just don't believe it or connect to it so I stated my opinion to prompt discussion, sorry for sullying your holy blog.
I don't mind you stating your opinion. It just feels like after I spent 3 or 4 paragraphs talking about how if one takes a moment to think about, sometimes they are affected by personality to the point that people that would not otherwise be physically attractive become so anyway, you responded with something like the lines of "Lol, nope, ugly girls suck".
I mean let me ask you this. I take it as a given that no one person can ever truly know another human being fully, no matter how long they spend time together. You can make a good approximation over time, but never fully. If you only choose to hang out with attractive people, how the hell do you know that all ugly people have poor personalities? It is kind of an irrational conclusion, and I happen to not appreciate irrational conclusions.
On June 27 2011 15:31 Torte de Lini wrote: The reality of it all is that a person will find many women "attractive", good-looking and quite enticingly gorgeous.
However, in the end, most people will go for women they are about the same "level" of beauty, inside and outside (and I wish I could reference the source, it's been a few years about this phenomenon or test).
To be bold, I would say you find the "hurt" part of a person not because they are more "real" in general, but rather because it is something you can relate to or recognize easily and thus match yourself with.
But that's me assuming, which I generally try not to.
Try watching "Blue Valentine" for a "real" love.
I personally think you'd love it and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I would say that your first point is most likely correct. As I often might feel a certain fragility in myself, perhaps that attracts me as well. I cannot be completely sure about this though, since I tend to not want to show that fragility in a relationship, and regret doing so when I inevitably do so. I can't honestly say whether or not your assumption is correct, but it very well might be.
As for "Blue Valentine", I saw it, and to be honest was not particularly impressed. I didn't find the characters particularly attractive to be honest. Sure they felt real, and the movie was interesting enough, but there was just a lot missing for me. It is beautifully shot and acted though, just felt sort of plotless.
I wonder if you have seen "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset". I consider that set to be the most "real" movies involving a relationship I have ever seen. Both characters have slight moments where they let their guard down in both movies that represent fragility that I find lacking in "Blue Valentine". It often felt in the latter as if only the guy showed those moments, and poorly worded, whereas the girl often did not. The "Before" movies had both of them expose themselves emotionally. I don't know, in the end it may just be that one appeals to me more than the other, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about either as well ^^.
Focus more on the pace and direction of the film. How it is cut and edited, because the timings are key here. I don't want to spoil for those interested but: + Show Spoiler +
I'm sure you noticed it, but I was blown away to see them get divorced during the ignition of a love we were being introduced to as well. The fireworks was really the icing on the key and truly symbolic
The acting, as you said, was superb.
Nope, haven't seen them. Will truly consider since you saw my film already :B
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
And vice-versa apparently. Those who are strong in their skewed views of people are generally unattractive themselves and know this. They put out this high standard to compensate or excuse themselves for their inability to achieve much of a social level.
I hope this isn't you and I also hope you don't live by these absolutes you callously talk so openly about.
But i and a whole lot of other people really love kpop (its all about looks, incase you didnt know), does that mean i fall under this category? Because that just sounds a bit silly to me
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Thank you for, I presume, not reading it fully. Or if you did, then you absolutely missed the point. Personally, I don't care that you are "shallow" as the word means very little to me, but I just find your conclusion difficult to fathom. How is it the case that 99% of the time a person's appearance reflects their personality? I just have never had that experience, so good for you, I guess?
?? I read the post, I just don't believe it or connect to it so I stated my opinion to prompt discussion, sorry for sullying your holy blog.
I don't mind you stating your opinion. It just feels like after I spent 3 or 4 paragraphs talking about how if one takes a moment to think about, sometimes they are affected by personality to the point that people that would not otherwise be physically attractive become so anyway, you responded with something like the lines of "Lol, nope, ugly girls suck".
I mean let me ask you this. I take it as a given that no one person can ever truly know another human being fully, no matter how long they spend time together. You can make a good approximation over time, but never fully. If you only choose to hang out with attractive people, how the hell do you know that all ugly people have poor personalities? It is kind of an irrational conclusion, and I happen to not appreciate irrational conclusions.
It's not irrational at all, I edited my first post explaining why I don't think it is. I know a lot more "fake" people than I know shapeshifters, and most people who are attractive have the drive to do something (maintain their physical beauty), where as ugly people obviously don't have the drive so I can't say anything for their personality..
I often feel like I'm dismissed immediately by men (especially if I'm in the company of women who are attractive.) and it's hard to get out of the mind-set of 'I'm ugly so there's no point in trying.' Infact at the moment this is my entire mindset. Even if I had the best personality in the world since I'm ugly it doesn't really seem to matter.
I definitely feel as though I'd be treated better (by almost everyone) if I was considered attractive. As it is I have zero redeeming physical qualities, and have been mistaken for a man in the past more than once (which was during my years in university.) It hit my self-confidence so badly that I basically never recovered, and often find it hard to even look at myself in a mirror.
The upside of this is that I can easily have friendships with men without them becoming complicated by relationship issues. Also I'm never subject to sexual harassment problems either. Freed from the potential for romance I have plenty of time to pursue my hobbies, but I'm going to need to plan for my future with the idea of none of the additional benefits of having a partner ^^; (Well except my cat....)
P.S. Not everyone has the money or confidence to 'maintain their physical beauty.' I'd need thousands of dollars worth of surgery to make myself into something considered attractive. I don't even know where to begin - even the most basic things like clothes shopping are a self-conscious nightmare for me. I hate even going into shops, and trying things on is even worse.
On June 27 2011 15:08 flowSthead wrote: We like what we like, whether that be socially instilled in us, or genetically through particular pheromones, it doesn't really matter.
Oh god I hope you don't actually believe that. There's enough crap going around without the implication that men like what they like about women because we've been culturally conditioned (nicer word for brainwashed, really) to like it. It's absolute BS. You may logically engage yourself in liking something (oh she'd make a good mother/wife) but in the end the reaction in your pants is only caused by what you feel, not by what you think.
Well there are two possibilities here: either Endymion is just more idiotic trash trying to use the internet as a crutch for his pathetic social life, or we could all be getting trolled pretty hard. Someone should look at his previous posts to see if he is actually this stupid.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Reading this, I can't respect you.
First of all, their is a large difference between appearances and personality. The reason why people respect others for their personality rather than their appearances is because their personality is what defines someone. The ability to naturally mold your personality rather than your appearance is on factor in why that person merits respect.
For example, would you respect a lazy person or a hard working person?
However, using your logic, the lazy person could always become a hard working person. Yes, the transition into becoming a hard working person makes them more respectable. Their decision to forsake their laziness and work hard is admirable and deserves respect.
Scenario two: Would you rather respect a ugly person or a pretty person?
Your answer would be probably be the pretty person if you had to pick between the two. Now, what if the ugly person got plastic surgery and now looks very pretty. Even if she still has her ugly personality, you would be more inclined to respect her.
This is why personality determines whether a person merits respect and not appearances.
Yes, I know that you mentioned that the reason you don't respect ugly people is because 99.9% of the time, they have ugly personalities.
First of all, this is extremely stereotypical. Secondly, your logic is extremely fallible. Using this logic, you would not respect elders because they lose their attractiveness to time despite what they have done with their lives.
It is time for you to wake up from your bubble and start thinking for yourself. If you continue your narrow, ignorant ways, don't expect to establish a stable family because 50% of marriages ends in a divorce. I wonder what will happened to your relationship with your wife (under the low circumstances that you'll be able to find one) when she gets old and loses her attractiveness. Then you'll stop respecting her and a relationship without mutual respect cannot last.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Thank you for, I presume, not reading it fully. Or if you did, then you absolutely missed the point. Personally, I don't care that you are "shallow" as the word means very little to me, but I just find your conclusion difficult to fathom. How is it the case that 99% of the time a person's appearance reflects their personality? I just have never had that experience, so good for you, I guess?
?? I read the post, I just don't believe it or connect to it so I stated my opinion to prompt discussion, sorry for sullying your holy blog.
I don't mind you stating your opinion. It just feels like after I spent 3 or 4 paragraphs talking about how if one takes a moment to think about, sometimes they are affected by personality to the point that people that would not otherwise be physically attractive become so anyway, you responded with something like the lines of "Lol, nope, ugly girls suck".
I mean let me ask you this. I take it as a given that no one person can ever truly know another human being fully, no matter how long they spend time together. You can make a good approximation over time, but never fully. If you only choose to hang out with attractive people, how the hell do you know that all ugly people have poor personalities? It is kind of an irrational conclusion, and I happen to not appreciate irrational conclusions.
It's not irrational at all, I edited my first post explaining why I don't think it is. I know a lot more "fake" people than I know shapeshifters, and most people who are attractive have the drive to do something (maintain their physical beauty), where as ugly people obviously don't have the drive so I can't say anything for their personality..
Sorry, I didn't see the edit. Perhaps it is not irrational, but at the very last there is a huge gulf in values between you and I. You say that you see drive and the ability to maintain fitness, whereas I largely see a waste of time. I mean I agree with you that being overweight is more often than not a test of will rather than genetics, but I was more speaking to the idea of accomplishment and the ability to converse.
For example, between two people one of which spent most of their time working out being fit, going to a tanning salon, etc. and a person who read a lot of books and watched a lot of TV, I would probably hang out with the latter. If they could do both, then cool, but I am more interested in a person's opinions rather than physical appearance.
It may in fact be easier to fake a personality than change your appearance, I agree with that. But faking opinions consistently is a somewhat difficult task the longer a conversation goes on. It's not like you can fake having an experience.
Anyways, sorry for the harsh initial response, but this is kind of what I meant. Whereas your initial judgement might be towards physical appearance, mine will be from what a person says. Your first post had little explanation, and thus came off as poorly thought out. The edit is better, and convincingly display a difference in values that I can assess.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Oy, difficult where to begin. A lot of what you're saying is very narrow-minded and just furthering the justified views of shallowness. To callously call others shallow because we take into account more than what's physically valued is the cherry on this sundae of melting pettiness and superficiality on your part.
I'm going to ignore your anecdotes and blast from the past because it's just nonsense that reinforced your stereotypical view and sense of "understanding" of people in general, despite how limited and poor it is in the grand scheme of things/society.
But let's halt and read this beauty: Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
This poor statement further concludes that you do have a narrow-minded understanding of people. Plastic surgery has legitimate uses, we both know that. What you don't seem to account for is that plastic surgery isn't something people "think is messing up a girl's natural beauty", it just places an importance on a part of them that shouldn't have priority, financial support or be a form of getting over one's insecurities. We all have imperfections, that is what allows one to see a person's perfections. To repair these would be to emphasize these imperfections as something to be insecure about rather than accept that there are key components of you that don't deserve more and better attention (than say the traits and qualities you can improve on).
The true irony here is that you naturally got into shape after being overweight, but then entirely support those who want the easy way into changing themselves without effort. This I find baffling and furthering my conclusions about you
Onward we go: It's faster to judge someone physically and assume their personality than to fake a personality. If I judged you physically before you can come up to me and fake all your traits, guess what's more shallow and easier to perform?
Good try though, that was really cute. I really enjoyed that last throw of the spear. You didn't even justify why ugly people have ugly personalities, you dodged that completely. Did you take note at how, no matter what shape or form you are, your true personality shines in the end.
On June 27 2011 15:31 Torte de Lini wrote: The reality of it all is that a person will find many women "attractive", good-looking and quite enticingly gorgeous.
However, in the end, most people will go for women they are about the same "level" of beauty, inside and outside (and I wish I could reference the source, it's been a few years about this phenomenon or test).
To be bold, I would say you find the "hurt" part of a person not because they are more "real" in general, but rather because it is something you can relate to or recognize easily and thus match yourself with.
But that's me assuming, which I generally try not to.
Try watching "Blue Valentine" for a "real" love.
I personally think you'd love it and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I would say that your first point is most likely correct. As I often might feel a certain fragility in myself, perhaps that attracts me as well. I cannot be completely sure about this though, since I tend to not want to show that fragility in a relationship, and regret doing so when I inevitably do so. I can't honestly say whether or not your assumption is correct, but it very well might be.
As for "Blue Valentine", I saw it, and to be honest was not particularly impressed. I didn't find the characters particularly attractive to be honest. Sure they felt real, and the movie was interesting enough, but there was just a lot missing for me. It is beautifully shot and acted though, just felt sort of plotless.
I wonder if you have seen "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset". I consider that set to be the most "real" movies involving a relationship I have ever seen. Both characters have slight moments where they let their guard down in both movies that represent fragility that I find lacking in "Blue Valentine". It often felt in the latter as if only the guy showed those moments, and poorly worded, whereas the girl often did not. The "Before" movies had both of them expose themselves emotionally. I don't know, in the end it may just be that one appeals to me more than the other, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about either as well ^^.
Focus more on the pace and direction of the film. How it is cut and edited, because the timings are key here. I don't want to spoil for those interested but: + Show Spoiler +
I'm sure you noticed it, but I was blown away to see them get divorced during the ignition of a love we were being introduced to as well. The fireworks was really the icing on the key and truly symbolic
The acting, as you said, was superb.
Nope, haven't seen them. Will truly consider since you saw my film already :B
Oh I'm not saying the movie lacked emotional punch, and I completely agree with your interpretation. The only problem I had was that because it felt off, I never got quite as invested in the characters. So by the end of the movie, even though I could fully appreciate the great editing and pace of the film, I just wasn't invested and I couldn't feel the impact.
On June 27 2011 15:08 flowSthead wrote: We like what we like, whether that be socially instilled in us, or genetically through particular pheromones, it doesn't really matter.
Oh god I hope you don't actually believe that. There's enough crap going around without the implication that men like what they like about women because we've been culturally conditioned (nicer word for brainwashed, really) to like it. It's absolute BS. You may logically engage yourself in liking something (oh she'd make a good mother/wife) but in the end the reaction in your pants is only caused by what you feel, not by what you think.
Thousands of years of arranged marriages would beg to differ :-). Whether or not you are physically attracted to 14 year old girls, I am sure most people today above the age of 18 would feel uncomfortable hitting on a 14 year old girl. That is not genetics, that is purely cultural.
On June 27 2011 15:31 Torte de Lini wrote: The reality of it all is that a person will find many women "attractive", good-looking and quite enticingly gorgeous.
However, in the end, most people will go for women they are about the same "level" of beauty, inside and outside (and I wish I could reference the source, it's been a few years about this phenomenon or test).
To be bold, I would say you find the "hurt" part of a person not because they are more "real" in general, but rather because it is something you can relate to or recognize easily and thus match yourself with.
But that's me assuming, which I generally try not to.
Try watching "Blue Valentine" for a "real" love.
I personally think you'd love it and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I would say that your first point is most likely correct. As I often might feel a certain fragility in myself, perhaps that attracts me as well. I cannot be completely sure about this though, since I tend to not want to show that fragility in a relationship, and regret doing so when I inevitably do so. I can't honestly say whether or not your assumption is correct, but it very well might be.
As for "Blue Valentine", I saw it, and to be honest was not particularly impressed. I didn't find the characters particularly attractive to be honest. Sure they felt real, and the movie was interesting enough, but there was just a lot missing for me. It is beautifully shot and acted though, just felt sort of plotless.
I wonder if you have seen "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset". I consider that set to be the most "real" movies involving a relationship I have ever seen. Both characters have slight moments where they let their guard down in both movies that represent fragility that I find lacking in "Blue Valentine". It often felt in the latter as if only the guy showed those moments, and poorly worded, whereas the girl often did not. The "Before" movies had both of them expose themselves emotionally. I don't know, in the end it may just be that one appeals to me more than the other, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about either as well ^^.
Focus more on the pace and direction of the film. How it is cut and edited, because the timings are key here. I don't want to spoil for those interested but: + Show Spoiler +
I'm sure you noticed it, but I was blown away to see them get divorced during the ignition of a love we were being introduced to as well. The fireworks was really the icing on the key and truly symbolic
The acting, as you said, was superb.
Nope, haven't seen them. Will truly consider since you saw my film already :B
Oh I'm not saying the movie lacked emotional punch, and I completely agree with your interpretation. The only problem I had was that because it felt off, I never got quite as invested in the characters. So by the end of the movie, even though I could fully appreciate the great editing and pace of the film, I just wasn't invested and I couldn't feel the impact.
On June 27 2011 15:08 flowSthead wrote: We like what we like, whether that be socially instilled in us, or genetically through particular pheromones, it doesn't really matter.
Oh god I hope you don't actually believe that. There's enough crap going around without the implication that men like what they like about women because we've been culturally conditioned (nicer word for brainwashed, really) to like it. It's absolute BS. You may logically engage yourself in liking something (oh she'd make a good mother/wife) but in the end the reaction in your pants is only caused by what you feel, not by what you think.
Thousands of years of arranged marriages would beg to differ :-). Whether or not you are physically attracted to 14 year old girls, I am sure most people today above the age of 18 would feel uncomfortable hitting on a 14 year old girl. That is not genetics, that is purely cultural.
Hm... fair enough. I could agree actually, we were spectators of a rising and falling of a relationship, but not of the people invested.
Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
On June 27 2011 16:28 bartus88 wrote: Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
On June 27 2011 16:14 NeverGG wrote: I often feel like I'm dismissed immediately by men (especially if I'm in the company of women who are attractive.) and it's hard to get out of the mind-set of 'I'm ugly so there's no point in trying.' Infact at the moment this is my entire mindset. Even if I had the best personality in the world since I'm ugly it doesn't really seem to matter.
I definitely feel as though I'd be treated better (by almost everyone) if I was considered attractive. As it is I have zero redeeming physical qualities, and have been mistaken for a man in the past more than once (which was during my years in university.) It hit my self-confidence so badly that I basically never recovered, and often find it hard to even look at myself in a mirror.
The upside of this is that I can easily have friendships with men without them becoming complicated by relationship issues. Also I'm never subject to sexual harassment problems either. Freed from the potential for romance I have plenty of time to pursue my hobbies, but I'm going to need to plan for my future with the idea of none of the additional benefits of having a partner ^^; (Well except my cat....)
P.S. Not everyone has the money or confidence to 'maintain their physical beauty.' I'd need thousands of dollars worth of surgery to make myself into something considered attractive. I don't even know where to begin - even the most basic things like clothes shopping are a self-conscious nightmare for me. I hate even going into shops, and trying things on is even worse.
This is honestly kind of depressing. I wish I could say something to cheer you up, but I cannot pretend that physical attractiveness doesn't do anything for me. I mean, I do not consider myself very attractive at all, but I feel as though I am at least average. Thinking you are ugly must be rough.
I will say that confidence is attractive, and that is probably kind of a lame thing to say since I am sure you have heard it before. I don't know, I feel for you though. It is definitely a lot harder to be unattractive as a girl then it is as a guy, but I wouldn't say it is insurmountable. I obviously don't know your situation, but don't give up! Confidence breeds success. You just have to get a little bit of it to get you on a roll.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
But let's halt and read this beauty: Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
This poor statement further concludes that you do have a narrow-minded understanding of people. Plastic surgery has legitimate uses, we both know that. What you don't seem to account for is that plastic surgery isn't something people "think is messing up a girl's natural beauty", it just places an importance on a part of them that shouldn't have priority, financial support or be a form of getting over one's insecurities. We all have imperfections, that is what allows one to see a person's perfections. To repair these would be to emphasize these imperfections as something to be insecure about rather than accept that there are key components of you that don't deserve more and better attention (than say the traits and qualities you can improve on).
You make it sound like plastic surgery is a bad thing (from a psychological point of view), which it is not. According to research, most women have gain many benefits, including higher self-esteem. So i dont agree when u say that it shouldnt have priority, financial support or a form of getting over one's imperfection.
Give me a study that compares the long-term overall self-esteem levels of people who have plastic surgery and those who rely on other methods to cope with imperfections that aren't or should not be a hindrance on their life (or in the main aspects of their life, since insecurities will always play a part or role).
Then give me the financial difference between the two.
Then maybe what you're saying won't sound like half a story. To reiterate, what you're saying is that someone who invested time, money, thought and interest into a procedure came out feeling better about who they are and how they look (than before). By golly! That's astounding!
I DO have a problem with people who are not unattractive naturally, but who cause themselves to be so by not taking proper care of themselves, such as being overweight, having unkempt or greasy hair, or not being properly groomed.
I don't care what natural gifts you were or were not given when it comes to physical appearance, but at least make the most of what you've got. Especially when it comes to weight.
Too often I've felt really guilty and have been proven wrong again and again when I judge someone based on their looks. Quite a few people that I somewhat didn't pay attention to (because they looked bad - this 1 guy had some hormone problems and had spots all over his body and he's overweight and keeps his fingernails bloody long) turned out to be really good friends and really nice and interesting , even helpful people.
To make a general baseless statement that isn't true in all cases: Since confidence and arrogance are related in my opinion, people who look worse tend to be more humble or have low self esteem, depending on how they take it, and vice versa.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Torte de Lini , really good music at your sig! And flowSthead, the music you posted sounds as twisted as what you wrote in the OP hahaha really good stuff :D
I would really appreciate it if you would PM me more good stuff!
i know a girl. i met her in grade 8. she wasnt the most attractive person. in fact you could consider her on the lower end of the "hot" scale. Despite her looks she had a wonderful heart, wrote perhaps the best poetry i had ever read. But not any of the guys in school cared a single bit about her
however i went out of my way to make sure she always had someone to talk to. always had someone to ask for help in class. always had a friend.
During the break of grade 10 to grade 11. she became the most beautiful person in the school. she started doing modelling for hairdressers. and as soon as she became gourgeous all the guys all of a sudden wanted her. but guess what, whenever they'd try to hit on her, she would always remind them they didnt want her then, she didnt want them now.
All the guys that were calling me an idiot for hanging out with her before. now all hated my guts. because i was always there. where they wanted to be
we were best friends for 6 years. still are.
never judge a book by its cover. you may miss out on a story that might change your life
On June 27 2011 16:47 Torte de Lini wrote: Give me a study that compares the long-term overall self-esteem levels of people who have plastic surgery and those who rely on other methods to cope with imperfections that aren't or should not be a hindrance on their life (or in the main aspects of their life, since insecurities will always play a part or role).
Then give me the financial difference between the two.
Then maybe what you're saying won't sound like half a story. To reiterate, what you're saying is that someone who invested time, money, thought and interest into a procedure came out feeling better about who they are and how they look (than before). By golly! That's astounding!
I dont talk out of my ass unlike most TLers. Before, the idea that succumbing to something like superficiality being overall beneficial was really upsetting and questionable to begin with for me, which is why i looked it up.
On June 27 2011 16:57 JieXian wrote: Too often I've felt really guilty and have been proven wrong again and again when I judge someone based on their looks. Quite a few people that I somewhat didn't pay attention to (because they looked bad - this 1 guy had some hormone problems and had spots all over his body and he's overweight and keeps his fingernails bloody long) turned out to be really good friends and really nice and interesting , even helpful people.
To make a general baseless statement that isn't true in all cases: Since confidence and arrogance are related in my opinion, people who look worse tend to be more humble or have low self esteem, depending on how they take it, and vice versa.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Torte de Lini , really good music at your sig! And flowSthead, the music you posted sounds as twisted as what you wrote in the OP hahaha really good stuff :D
I would really appreciate it if you would PM me more good stuff!
Check the OST blog on TL. A lot of people posted some great songs.
On June 27 2011 16:28 bartus88 wrote: Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
No, that's called the Halo-Effect and anecdotes.
No it's not. You either failed to understand the point I was trying to make, or I failed to sufficiently translate my thoughts into written language. Since the latter is more likely (it's a recurring problem for me), let me try again by proposing a thought experiment.
Let's say a pair of identical twins is born. Obviously they have the exact same initial physical aspects. However, their personalities are different. One of them is lazy and doesn't care about anything. The other is an active person who tries to make the most out of life and therefore takes good care of himself physically. Even though they have the same initial appearance, people will find the one with the superior personality trait more attractive.
Hopefully this makes it more clear for you what I was trying to say.
On June 27 2011 16:28 bartus88 wrote: Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
No, that's called the Halo-Effect and anecdotes.
No it's not. You either failed to understand the point I was trying to make, or I failed to sufficiently translate my thoughts into written language. Since the latter is more likely (it's a recurring problem for me), let me try again by proposing a thought experiment.
Let's say a pair of identical twins is born. Obviously they have the exact same initial physical aspects. However, their personalities are different. One of them is lazy and doesn't care about anything. The other is an active person who tries to make the most out of life and therefore takes good care of himself physically. Even though they have the same initial appearance, people will find the one with the superior personality trait more attractive.
Hopefully this makes it more clear for you what I was trying to say.
I probably failed to understand, as expected and I'm sorry.
I fail to understand your example, especially considering that if a person was more focused on what she found was important in her life than her looks (nothing wrong with the other way around either), then you'd judge someone from the cover rather than inquiring why she looks the way she does (she doesn't care, she is fine with the way she looks, doesn't know how to change how she looks, etc).
It's just very difficult a leap from ugly physical appearance to lazy personality with no ambitions for me. I probably missed your point though, I don't feel there is any correlation, but I'm speaking off-hand.
I've always felt this way but I couldn't really explain it in words. I'm not sure how well it applies for all people but I believe this phenomena occurs very often. I definitely feel like there are different levels of attraction that come from many different places and on different levels. I often judge the attractiveness of girls by looking at both their personalities and the way they look. I often look for girls that are more "sophisticated". For me this basically means that they have a good mix between personality and looks. For me it's kind of like type casting where if a girl fits a certain role of my liking, I would automatically consider her an attractive girl.
As for the guy who says he doesn't respect ugly people, I can kind of understand what he is saying about personalities. While his statement may be extreme, a lot of people's personalities can be judged through appearance. A person's face can show a lot about his/her attitude. So if some person thinks he/she is ugly so they have a bad outlook on life(just an example. I don't mean "ugly" people think their lives suck). The face will sometimes show this person's attitude towards life and it can make the people around this person feel uncomfortable.
On June 27 2011 16:28 bartus88 wrote: Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
No, that's called the Halo-Effect and anecdotes.
No it's not. You either failed to understand the point I was trying to make, or I failed to sufficiently translate my thoughts into written language. Since the latter is more likely (it's a recurring problem for me), let me try again by proposing a thought experiment.
Let's say a pair of identical twins is born. Obviously they have the exact same initial physical aspects. However, their personalities are different. One of them is lazy and doesn't care about anything. The other is an active person who tries to make the most out of life and therefore takes good care of himself physically. Even though they have the same initial appearance, people will find the one with the superior personality trait more attractive.
Hopefully this makes it more clear for you what I was trying to say.
I probably failed to understand, as expected and I'm sorry.
I fail to understand your example, especially considering that if a person was more focused on what she found was important in her life than her looks (nothing wrong with the other way around either), then you'd judge someone from the cover rather than inquiring why she looks the way she does (she doesn't care, she is fine with the way she looks, doesn't know how to change how she looks, etc).
It's just very difficult a leap from ugly physical appearance to lazy personality with no ambitions for me. I probably missed your point though, I don't feel there is any correlation, but I'm speaking off-hand.
I wasn't trying to say that ugly people are lazy, but rather that sometimes, a bad personality trait will result in a less than optimal physical appearance.
I think this is probably psychological, but I find myself drawn to people who look like me most often. I know I am not the most attractive person in the world, but I'm curious. Does anyone else feel this way?
On June 27 2011 17:39 Lanaia wrote: I think this is probably psychological, but I find myself drawn to people who look like me most often. I know I am not the most attractive person in the world, but I'm curious. Does anyone else feel this way?
Yes, it is actually the standard and most normal. Do you find yourself most comfortable with people who are similar or like you?
On June 27 2011 16:28 bartus88 wrote: Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
No, that's called the Halo-Effect and anecdotes.
No it's not. You either failed to understand the point I was trying to make, or I failed to sufficiently translate my thoughts into written language. Since the latter is more likely (it's a recurring problem for me), let me try again by proposing a thought experiment.
Let's say a pair of identical twins is born. Obviously they have the exact same initial physical aspects. However, their personalities are different. One of them is lazy and doesn't care about anything. The other is an active person who tries to make the most out of life and therefore takes good care of himself physically. Even though they have the same initial appearance, people will find the one with the superior personality trait more attractive.
Hopefully this makes it more clear for you what I was trying to say.
I probably failed to understand, as expected and I'm sorry.
I fail to understand your example, especially considering that if a person was more focused on what she found was important in her life than her looks (nothing wrong with the other way around either), then you'd judge someone from the cover rather than inquiring why she looks the way she does (she doesn't care, she is fine with the way she looks, doesn't know how to change how she looks, etc).
It's just very difficult a leap from ugly physical appearance to lazy personality with no ambitions for me. I probably missed your point though, I don't feel there is any correlation, but I'm speaking off-hand.
I wasn't trying to say that ugly people are lazy, but rather that sometimes, a bad personality trait will result in a less than optimal physical appearance.
Oh no, I wasn't trying to make you sound like you were insulting people or someone. I guess sometimes it may occur, but even then I don't find myself entirely agreeing that there is a correlation and not just a coincidence.
On June 27 2011 16:28 bartus88 wrote: Even though I completely disagree with Endymion about not respecting unattractive people, there is some truth in his statement. You can usually tell a lot about a person's personality just by taking one look at him/her. Also, a hardworking person is way more likely to care of him/herself than a lazy person. Obviously this doesn't mean that handsome people have better personalities, but I'm pretty sure there will be an small statistical correlation between the two.
No, that's called the Halo-Effect and anecdotes.
No it's not. You either failed to understand the point I was trying to make, or I failed to sufficiently translate my thoughts into written language. Since the latter is more likely (it's a recurring problem for me), let me try again by proposing a thought experiment.
Let's say a pair of identical twins is born. Obviously they have the exact same initial physical aspects. However, their personalities are different. One of them is lazy and doesn't care about anything. The other is an active person who tries to make the most out of life and therefore takes good care of himself physically. Even though they have the same initial appearance, people will find the one with the superior personality trait more attractive.
Hopefully this makes it more clear for you what I was trying to say.
I probably failed to understand, as expected and I'm sorry.
I fail to understand your example, especially considering that if a person was more focused on what she found was important in her life than her looks (nothing wrong with the other way around either), then you'd judge someone from the cover rather than inquiring why she looks the way she does (she doesn't care, she is fine with the way she looks, doesn't know how to change how she looks, etc).
It's just very difficult a leap from ugly physical appearance to lazy personality with no ambitions for me. I probably missed your point though, I don't feel there is any correlation, but I'm speaking off-hand.
I wasn't trying to say that ugly people are lazy, but rather that sometimes, a bad personality trait will result in a less than optimal physical appearance.
I think it depends on what you define as bad personality trait. I mean you do see a lot of girls attracted to "bad" guys. I think we just hear about better looking people with good personalities so we think that a lot of good looking people have good personalities. It's kind of like TV. Sometimes i feel like every good looking person is rich because it's the information you're constantly exposed to.
On June 27 2011 17:39 Lanaia wrote: I think this is probably psychological, but I find myself drawn to people who look like me most often. I know I am not the most attractive person in the world, but I'm curious. Does anyone else feel this way?
Yes, it is actually the standard and most normal. Do you find yourself most comfortable with people who are similar or like you?
That's for starters :B
It's moreso with people who are like who I am now. Overcoming depression shaped me immensely and changed me for the better. I wasn't sure that was the standard as everything was unrequited up until about a year and a half ago.
As I've been reading this thread I've been thinking. The more someone seems whorish or sluttish to me, the more unattractive they are is to me. The more they gossip, cheat, and all that, the more unattractive they are to me. I'm sure this is normal.
I found my deal-breaker. My deal-breaker is feet.
I appreciate this blog and I appreciate the time everyone has put into it. It makes me happy to learn everyone else's opinions, whether they align with mine or not. It's interesting. I don't think I'm shallow, but I know I'm picky as all hell. (Picky and shallow aren't the same thing, correct?)
There are parts of me I'd like to fix, but I am positive that using plastic surgery to attain such results would make me feel very unfulfilled. I'm starting a work out regime and hoping spending time with my boyfriend doesn't interfere with it too much.
On June 27 2011 17:39 Lanaia wrote: I think this is probably psychological, but I find myself drawn to people who look like me most often. I know I am not the most attractive person in the world, but I'm curious. Does anyone else feel this way?
Yes, it is actually the standard and most normal. Do you find yourself most comfortable with people who are similar or like you?
That's for starters :B
It's moreso with people who are like who I am now. Overcoming depression shaped me immensely and changed me for the better. I wasn't sure that was the standard as everything was unrequited up until about a year and a half ago.
As I've been reading this thread I've been thinking. The more someone seems whorish or sluttish to me, the more unattractive they are is to me. The more they gossip, cheat, and all that, the more unattractive they are to me. I'm sure this is normal.
I found my deal-breaker. My deal-breaker is feet.
I appreciate this blog and I appreciate the time everyone has put into it. It makes me happy to learn everyone else's opinions, whether they align with mine or not. It's interesting. I don't think I'm shallow, but I know I'm picky as all hell. (Picky and shallow aren't the same thing, correct?)
Hhaha I dont think picky is shallow. It just means you're looking for something with higher quality. In my opinion shallow is just being quick to judge without any real evidence. At first glance people may not be really attractive but given time some attractiveness can build up.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Well that post just screamed "I'm a complete asshole" to me...
Attractiveness to me is so subjective that when you love someone that much whatever they fucking do is beautiful. I know this girl, and a lot of people disagree with me regarding how pretty she is, but it seems that no matter what she looks like it seems... fucking awesome. But luckily for me I fell in love with her for her personality then she got really mega pretty :D
By the way I have a feeling you're one of the ugly kids that you can't respect.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Reading this, I can't respect you.
First of all, their is a large difference between appearances and personality. The reason why people respect others for their personality rather than their appearances is because their personality is what defines someone. The ability to naturally mold your personality rather than your appearance is on factor in why that person merits respect.
For example, would you respect a lazy person or a hard working person?
However, using your logic, the lazy person could always become a hard working person. Yes, the transition into becoming a hard working person makes them more respectable. Their decision to forsake their laziness and work hard is admirable and deserves respect.
Scenario two: Would you rather respect a ugly person or a pretty person?
Your answer would be probably be the pretty person if you had to pick between the two. Now, what if the ugly person got plastic surgery and now looks very pretty. Even if she still has her ugly personality, you would be more inclined to respect her.
This is why personality determines whether a person merits respect and not appearances.
Yes, I know that you mentioned that the reason you don't respect ugly people is because 99.9% of the time, they have ugly personalities.
First of all, this is extremely stereotypical. Secondly, your logic is extremely fallible. Using this logic, you would not respect elders because they lose their attractiveness to time despite what they have done with their lives.
It is time for you to wake up from your bubble and start thinking for yourself. If you continue your narrow, ignorant ways, don't expect to establish a stable family because 50% of marriages ends in a divorce. I wonder what will happened to your relationship with your wife (under the low circumstances that you'll be able to find one) when she gets old and loses her attractiveness. Then you'll stop respecting her and a relationship without mutual respect cannot last.
Well I can't really control if you respect me, I'm just presenting an arguement against the OP's. The ability to mold and split your personality is the very essence of why it is hard to judge someone on it. That's why in an interview, the company interviewing you will always ask for references, because you're word isn't worth more than another's words are. To be good at interviewing, you need to mold yourself to the other person, to seem like you're likable and a good fit for the job. You don't go into an interview saying "Well, I'm really underqualified for this position, and I smoke weed in my spare time. Oh and I'm a bit of a narcissist."
You would naturally omit parts of yourself that you don't want your employer to see. The exact same thing holds true with talking to girls, or trying to make friends. That's why I value hard work (it's not just beauty, Starcraft achievements garner respect as well because I KNOW how hard it is to obtain, and it's not easily lied about) over words.
I really like your example about elders, because you're right, it's a hole in my reasoning. I partially explain it below the second quote, but I'll go into more detail here. You can't meet everyone, so you have to sift through and take the higher statistic of likely hood [(skinny from gym vs skinny from lypo) (fat from laziness vs fat from disease)]. In the case of elders, or even older people in general, obviously their bodies deteriorate and they can't maintain perfection. I'm not saying you should hate old people because they're ulgy, because you shouldn't hate anyone because they're ugly. Older people become exempt from the process of elimination or classification because they don't apply, so you'll have to talk to all of the older people you can find and make sure they're awesome or not!
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Oy, difficult where to begin. A lot of what you're saying is very narrow-minded and just furthering the justified views of shallowness. To callously call others shallow because we take into account more than what's physically valued is the cherry on this sundae of melting pettiness and superficiality on your part.
I'm going to ignore your anecdotes and blast from the past because it's just nonsense that reinforced your stereotypical view and sense of "understanding" of people in general, despite how limited and poor it is in the grand scheme of things/society.
But let's halt and read this beauty: Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
This poor statement further concludes that you do have a narrow-minded understanding of people. Plastic surgery has legitimate uses, we both know that. What you don't seem to account for is that plastic surgery isn't something people "think is messing up a girl's natural beauty", it just places an importance on a part of them that shouldn't have priority, financial support or be a form of getting over one's insecurities. We all have imperfections, that is what allows one to see a person's perfections. To repair these would be to emphasize these imperfections as something to be insecure about rather than accept that there are key components of you that don't deserve more and better attention (than say the traits and qualities you can improve on).
The true irony here is that you naturally got into shape after being overweight, but then entirely support those who want the easy way into changing themselves without effort. This I find baffling and furthering my conclusions about you
Onward we go: It's faster to judge someone physically and assume their personality than to fake a personality. If I judged you physically before you can come up to me and fake all your traits, guess what's more shallow and easier to perform?
Good try though, that was really cute. I really enjoyed that last throw of the spear. You didn't even justify why ugly people have ugly personalities, you dodged that completely. Did you take note at how, no matter what shape or form you are, your true personality shines in the end.
It's not ironic, you just misunderstand the importance of beauty in terms of classifying people. I believe most people are naturally attracted to beatiful people not because they are sexually stimulated, but because they see the worth in being attractive. Like I said earlier, being attractive implied initiative, where not being attractive does not. So lets throw an example out there. You have your standard girl, she isn't ugly but her older sister is always recognized more because she's a model. The older sister works out every day and cuts meals to maintain her appearance, where as the younger does not. The younger one could be as pretty if she tried, but she doesn't, for whatever reasons (lets say she is just lazy).
So the younger sister decides to get a boob job (fundamentally is useless, a lot of people have issues with their daughters getting them), and all of the men who ignored her for her older sister now flock to her. For a simple 4,000 usd or however much it costs, she efficiently forewent all of her sisters efforts, surpassing her in beauty. Now, is she a better or worse person for this? She's certainly lazier than her sister, but she is more attractive. Place the two in a room together, and a normal man would pick the lazy one over the older one. He has been decieved, he took the girl with the worse personality. Is this wrong? No, it's competition for the older sister to become prettier.
But as a bystander, it's not plausible for me to look at every single human being that I meet and say "Hm, did she get lyposuction? Are those real, or did she just put a lot of effort into working out," so I won't. I'll judge them at face value, and think better of the person thinking that they work out every day. Inversely, I'm forced to do the same thing with ugly people. I'm well aware that there are a lot of people with disorders that force them to be unattractive, or that people don't have the money to get surgery, but how many of them are just lazy? I'm forced to shaft the people who are truly at a disadvantage because of the vast majority who are lazy, in order to maintain my positive outlook on people who work to maintain their image. So here is my apology to all of the awesome non-lazy people who are unattractive, I'm sorry. It's a matter of efficiency, I can't meet every single person and shift through you like sand.
Your last statement is completely incorrect though, because my life is infinitely better now that I've hit the gym. My personality means jack shit, or else my "blast from the past" as you so coldly put it wouldnt' have been as terrible as it was, and I would never be the man that I was today. If my "personality" shone through in the end, then I should have been dating the girl of my dreams on the day of graduation instead of sitting in Tim Hortons eating a bagel, saying "gee, shoulda asked her out." With physical attractiveness comes respect, no matter how cold or retarded it is, that's the world we live in, I'm just the one pointing it out.
tl;dr I'm really not an asshole, and of course I have best friends who aren't attractive.. Stop acting like I want all of the ugly people in the world killed, I don't think being lazy is a mortal sin, it just isn't attractive to me. The blog is titled "attractiveness" after all, not "end all be all attributes of every perfect human"
Let's all be honest here. Look's matter. Sex sells. Appearances are important.
Yes, we all judge a person first based on their appearances, and then next when we talk to them. This is why you when you apply for a job, you don't wear sweats. This is why you, usually, would dress up for a date. I understand that appearances aren't everything, but a certain amount of upkeep is required.
I won't hate someone for being ugly. There are very few people that are naturally what people nowadays would call 'ugly'. If you put a decent amount of effort anyone can look presentable. But if you don't take care of yourself, I am going to look down on you, even if just a little bit. For instance, things such as being obese, or not taking care of your hygiene. These things are important.
Personally, I think that appearance and personality are both equally important. If you are majorly lacking in either, then I wouldn't be attracted to you, though we can still be great friends. I think it's wrong for people to pigeonhole others as being shallow just because they find people sexy or attractive.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now.
If this is true, GO SEEK HELP! Eating disorders are not a good thing either way!
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are.
In a long term platonic or romantic relationship, almost no person can put on a fake every time. Maybe you are still to young to notice this?
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
You can work on your mind too (actually, most of school is about working on your mind). Personalities are not set in stone but can be changed although most of the time not altered completely. As it is with physical appearance. You can work out, but you can't grow an extra 20cm or a full beard if you don't have the genes.
Personality and physical constitution (which will reflect in appearance) are both important. The reason i tend to dismiss people based on personality is that most interaction with platonic friends is not dependent on looks, but on personality.
Also the definition of shallow is that shallow people do not look beyond the surface. So if i value personality, i am by definition not shallow because personality cannot be experienced in a few minutes or even hours.
On June 27 2011 16:14 NeverGG wrote: I often feel like I'm dismissed immediately by men (especially if I'm in the company of women who are attractive.) and it's hard to get out of the mind-set of 'I'm ugly so there's no point in trying.' Infact at the moment this is my entire mindset. Even if I had the best personality in the world since I'm ugly it doesn't really seem to matter.
I definitely feel as though I'd be treated better (by almost everyone) if I was considered attractive. As it is I have zero redeeming physical qualities, and have been mistaken for a man in the past more than once (which was during my years in university.) It hit my self-confidence so badly that I basically never recovered, and often find it hard to even look at myself in a mirror.
The upside of this is that I can easily have friendships with men without them becoming complicated by relationship issues. Also I'm never subject to sexual harassment problems either. Freed from the potential for romance I have plenty of time to pursue my hobbies, but I'm going to need to plan for my future with the idea of none of the additional benefits of having a partner ^^; (Well except my cat....)
P.S. Not everyone has the money or confidence to 'maintain their physical beauty.' I'd need thousands of dollars worth of surgery to make myself into something considered attractive. I don't even know where to begin - even the most basic things like clothes shopping are a self-conscious nightmare for me. I hate even going into shops, and trying things on is even worse.
You just have to find your own attractiveness. I was bullied in school and it drained my confidence, but then when I eventually got out from the compulsory education system, I gradually changed my mindset and decided to do something about my looks. What I did was, I abandoned the thought of fitting in, and instead just tried to find my own individuality. Don't ask what makes you beautiful. Instead ask what you like and you'll get the real answer to what makes you beautiful. You can look at others for inspiration. This is applicable everywhere, from clothing to hairstyle, and I guess makeup for women. There are some women who just don't have a clue when it comes to makeup, but since you're a photographer, I'm 100% sure you're not one of them, even if you might think so. A lot of ppl have to grow into their looks, which was the case with TyrantPotato's friend. I can relate to that story myself. I'm not really the best looking guy out there, but I would probably rank myself as a 7 or 8, which is a huge upgrade from my teen years. I'm lucky though that I've been able to update my view on myself, since I know a lot of ppl still see themselves as how they looked in their teens.
I personally believe that anyone can without artificial means make themselves look average at the very least, and to look average is better than it sounds. Anyone can make their body look stunning by eating well and exercising. Plastic boobs are overrated, and in half the cases repulsing. Only men with big boob fetiches would disagree with this. The form is much more important than the size, and the form is directly influenced by your health.
The only part you can't really do anything about is your face, but I think most girls have pretty faces, and those who don't, look decent atleast. I've never in my life felt sexually repulsed by a girls face. It's always the body that puts me off, and since the body is completely in your own hands, everybody is potentially beautiful and sexy.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Reading this, I can't respect you.
First of all, their is a large difference between appearances and personality. The reason why people respect others for their personality rather than their appearances is because their personality is what defines someone. The ability to naturally mold your personality rather than your appearance is on factor in why that person merits respect.
For example, would you respect a lazy person or a hard working person?
However, using your logic, the lazy person could always become a hard working person. Yes, the transition into becoming a hard working person makes them more respectable. Their decision to forsake their laziness and work hard is admirable and deserves respect.
Scenario two: Would you rather respect a ugly person or a pretty person?
Your answer would be probably be the pretty person if you had to pick between the two. Now, what if the ugly person got plastic surgery and now looks very pretty. Even if she still has her ugly personality, you would be more inclined to respect her.
This is why personality determines whether a person merits respect and not appearances.
Yes, I know that you mentioned that the reason you don't respect ugly people is because 99.9% of the time, they have ugly personalities.
First of all, this is extremely stereotypical. Secondly, your logic is extremely fallible. Using this logic, you would not respect elders because they lose their attractiveness to time despite what they have done with their lives.
It is time for you to wake up from your bubble and start thinking for yourself. If you continue your narrow, ignorant ways, don't expect to establish a stable family because 50% of marriages ends in a divorce. I wonder what will happened to your relationship with your wife (under the low circumstances that you'll be able to find one) when she gets old and loses her attractiveness. Then you'll stop respecting her and a relationship without mutual respect cannot last.
Well I can't really control if you respect me, I'm just presenting an arguement against the OP's. The ability to mold and split your personality is the very essence of why it is hard to judge someone on it. That's why in an interview, the company interviewing you will always ask for references, because you're word isn't worth more than another's words are. To be good at interviewing, you need to mold yourself to the other person, to seem like you're likable and a good fit for the job. You don't go into an interview saying "Well, I'm really underqualified for this position, and I smoke weed in my spare time. Oh and I'm a bit of a narcissist."
You would naturally omit parts of yourself that you don't want your employer to see. The exact same thing holds true with talking to girls, or trying to make friends. That's why I value hard work (it's not just beauty, Starcraft achievements garner respect as well because I KNOW how hard it is to obtain, and it's not easily lied about) over words.
I really like your example about elders, because you're right, it's a hole in my reasoning. I partially explain it below the second quote, but I'll go into more detail here. You can't meet everyone, so you have to sift through and take the higher statistic of likely hood [(skinny from gym vs skinny from lypo) (fat from laziness vs fat from disease)]. In the case of elders, or even older people in general, obviously their bodies deteriorate and they can't maintain perfection. I'm not saying you should hate old people because they're ulgy, because you shouldn't hate anyone because they're ugly. Older people become exempt from the process of elimination or classification because they don't apply, so you'll have to talk to all of the older people you can find and make sure they're awesome or not!
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Oy, difficult where to begin. A lot of what you're saying is very narrow-minded and just furthering the justified views of shallowness. To callously call others shallow because we take into account more than what's physically valued is the cherry on this sundae of melting pettiness and superficiality on your part.
I'm going to ignore your anecdotes and blast from the past because it's just nonsense that reinforced your stereotypical view and sense of "understanding" of people in general, despite how limited and poor it is in the grand scheme of things/society.
But let's halt and read this beauty: Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
This poor statement further concludes that you do have a narrow-minded understanding of people. Plastic surgery has legitimate uses, we both know that. What you don't seem to account for is that plastic surgery isn't something people "think is messing up a girl's natural beauty", it just places an importance on a part of them that shouldn't have priority, financial support or be a form of getting over one's insecurities. We all have imperfections, that is what allows one to see a person's perfections. To repair these would be to emphasize these imperfections as something to be insecure about rather than accept that there are key components of you that don't deserve more and better attention (than say the traits and qualities you can improve on).
The true irony here is that you naturally got into shape after being overweight, but then entirely support those who want the easy way into changing themselves without effort. This I find baffling and furthering my conclusions about you
Onward we go: It's faster to judge someone physically and assume their personality than to fake a personality. If I judged you physically before you can come up to me and fake all your traits, guess what's more shallow and easier to perform?
Good try though, that was really cute. I really enjoyed that last throw of the spear. You didn't even justify why ugly people have ugly personalities, you dodged that completely. Did you take note at how, no matter what shape or form you are, your true personality shines in the end.
It's not ironic, you just misunderstand the importance of beauty in terms of classifying people. I believe most people are naturally attracted to beatiful people not because they are sexually stimulated, but because they see the worth in being attractive. Like I said earlier, being attractive implied initiative, where not being attractive does not. So lets throw an example out there. You have your standard girl, she isn't ugly but her older sister is always recognized more because she's a model. The older sister works out every day and cuts meals to maintain her appearance, where as the younger does not. The younger one could be as pretty if she tried, but she doesn't, for whatever reasons (lets say she is just lazy).
So the younger sister decides to get a boob job (fundamentally is useless, a lot of people have issues with their daughters getting them), and all of the men who ignored her for her older sister now flock to her. For a simple 4,000 usd or however much it costs, she efficiently forewent all of her sisters efforts, surpassing her in beauty. Now, is she a better or worse person for this? She's certainly lazier than her sister, but she is more attractive. Place the two in a room together, and a normal man would pick the lazy one over the older one. He has been decieved, he took the girl with the worse personality. Is this wrong? No, it's competition for the older sister to become prettier.
But as a bystander, it's not plausible for me to look at every single human being that I meet and say "Hm, did she get lyposuction? Are those real, or did she just put a lot of effort into working out," so I won't. I'll judge them at face value, and think better of the person thinking that they work out every day. Inversely, I'm forced to do the same thing with ugly people. I'm well aware that there are a lot of people with disorders that force them to be unattractive, or that people don't have the money to get surgery, but how many of them are just lazy? I'm forced to shaft the people who are truly at a disadvantage because of the vast majority who are lazy, in order to maintain my positive outlook on people who work to maintain their image. So here is my apology to all of the awesome non-lazy people who are unattractive, I'm sorry. It's a matter of efficiency, I can't meet every single person and shift through you like sand.
Your last statement is completely incorrect though, because my life is infinitely better now that I've hit the gym. My personality means jack shit, or else my "blast from the past" as you so coldly put it wouldnt' have been as terrible as it was, and I would never be the man that I was today. If my "personality" shone through in the end, then I should have been dating the girl of my dreams on the day of graduation instead of sitting in Tim Hortons eating a bagel, saying "gee, shoulda asked her out." With physical attractiveness comes respect, no matter how cold or retarded it is, that's the world we live in, I'm just the one pointing it out.
tl;dr I'm really not an asshole, and of course I have best friends who aren't attractive.. Stop acting like I want all of the ugly people in the world killed, I don't think being lazy is a mortal sin, it just isn't attractive to me. The blog is titled "attractiveness" after all, not "end all be all attributes of every perfect human"
Holy fuck what am I reading.
You understand there are plenty of people that are attractive and don't have to spend a lot of effort to keep themselves looking that way? And there are ugly people who work hard on there appearance but can't increase themselves above a 6/10 no matter how hard they hit the gym?
People cover up bits of their personalities, but people do the same with physical features they don't like and can't change, so I don't see what your point is.
Just because you have a good personality you are not entitled to anything, and certainly not the girl of your dreams. If you look great you might be able to attract her for a bit (until you open your mouth) but you will have to have the personality to be able to attract her. And that doesn't just mean a good personality, that means a personality that attracts girls.
You seem to see things in such simple terms. Lazy or hard working, attractive or unattractive, fit or fat. It's not that simple. There are people who are very hard working and kind but don't want to spend more than 5 minutes getting ready in the morning because they are so busy. And there are plenty of people who look very good and don't have to spend more than 5 minutes getting ready in the morning. You're saying these people will never have your time because they are what you perceive to be ugly?
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
You're right, you're not shallow. You just don't think.
I find I'm not really attracted to someone until I've actually met them, or they look similar to someone I already know and like. I think familiarity plays a huge role in how attractive one finds someone, which makes neither physical looks nor personality the sole factors of appeal. Everyone has flaws in personality and physical looks, but what holds you together is the feeling of security and trust you develop with an individual who has proven themselves to you. It's something you can't just go out and get anywhere in a single night, so we say it makes us feel special or that we love the person (a natural feeling that maintains the trust of a relationship).
A quick physical judgment: are we even compatible? Would our lifestyles be too different? A slightly longer personality judgment: Do we get along? Do way have things in common? An trust judgment: Do we feel safe together? Do we feel like we know each other?
Chef's 1 2 3 guide to romance lol Personality is only slightly less superficial than physical attractiveness... It isn't really any more controllable than one's appearance, it's just longer lasting. We can call it superficial that someone only thinks about looks, but what we mean is it's dumb because it ignore the other half of compatibility.
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
I don't think he needs to post anything. We already know he has a shit personality (as evidenced by his hate for people based on their appearance) - if hes put together, ugly, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that most of us find him repulsive and want nothing to do with him.
I just wonder if he applies the same logic and sweeping generalizations to all facets of his life, including race, gender etc. If someone is ugly then he hates them because they are lazy. If someone is African American or Aboriginal Canadian then he should hate them because they are a criminal. You can only be friends and interact with so many people so you should play it safe and screen out the lesser races.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Reading this, I can't respect you.
First of all, their is a large difference between appearances and personality. The reason why people respect others for their personality rather than their appearances is because their personality is what defines someone. The ability to naturally mold your personality rather than your appearance is on factor in why that person merits respect.
For example, would you respect a lazy person or a hard working person?
However, using your logic, the lazy person could always become a hard working person. Yes, the transition into becoming a hard working person makes them more respectable. Their decision to forsake their laziness and work hard is admirable and deserves respect.
Scenario two: Would you rather respect a ugly person or a pretty person?
Your answer would be probably be the pretty person if you had to pick between the two. Now, what if the ugly person got plastic surgery and now looks very pretty. Even if she still has her ugly personality, you would be more inclined to respect her.
This is why personality determines whether a person merits respect and not appearances.
Yes, I know that you mentioned that the reason you don't respect ugly people is because 99.9% of the time, they have ugly personalities.
First of all, this is extremely stereotypical. Secondly, your logic is extremely fallible. Using this logic, you would not respect elders because they lose their attractiveness to time despite what they have done with their lives.
It is time for you to wake up from your bubble and start thinking for yourself. If you continue your narrow, ignorant ways, don't expect to establish a stable family because 50% of marriages ends in a divorce. I wonder what will happened to your relationship with your wife (under the low circumstances that you'll be able to find one) when she gets old and loses her attractiveness. Then you'll stop respecting her and a relationship without mutual respect cannot last.
Well I can't really control if you respect me, I'm just presenting an arguement against the OP's. The ability to mold and split your personality is the very essence of why it is hard to judge someone on it. That's why in an interview, the company interviewing you will always ask for references, because you're word isn't worth more than another's words are. To be good at interviewing, you need to mold yourself to the other person, to seem like you're likable and a good fit for the job. You don't go into an interview saying "Well, I'm really underqualified for this position, and I smoke weed in my spare time. Oh and I'm a bit of a narcissist."
You would naturally omit parts of yourself that you don't want your employer to see. The exact same thing holds true with talking to girls, or trying to make friends. That's why I value hard work (it's not just beauty, Starcraft achievements garner respect as well because I KNOW how hard it is to obtain, and it's not easily lied about) over words.
I really like your example about elders, because you're right, it's a hole in my reasoning. I partially explain it below the second quote, but I'll go into more detail here. You can't meet everyone, so you have to sift through and take the higher statistic of likely hood [(skinny from gym vs skinny from lypo) (fat from laziness vs fat from disease)]. In the case of elders, or even older people in general, obviously their bodies deteriorate and they can't maintain perfection. I'm not saying you should hate old people because they're ulgy, because you shouldn't hate anyone because they're ugly. Older people become exempt from the process of elimination or classification because they don't apply, so you'll have to talk to all of the older people you can find and make sure they're awesome or not!
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
Oy, difficult where to begin. A lot of what you're saying is very narrow-minded and just furthering the justified views of shallowness. To callously call others shallow because we take into account more than what's physically valued is the cherry on this sundae of melting pettiness and superficiality on your part.
I'm going to ignore your anecdotes and blast from the past because it's just nonsense that reinforced your stereotypical view and sense of "understanding" of people in general, despite how limited and poor it is in the grand scheme of things/society.
But let's halt and read this beauty: Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
This poor statement further concludes that you do have a narrow-minded understanding of people. Plastic surgery has legitimate uses, we both know that. What you don't seem to account for is that plastic surgery isn't something people "think is messing up a girl's natural beauty", it just places an importance on a part of them that shouldn't have priority, financial support or be a form of getting over one's insecurities. We all have imperfections, that is what allows one to see a person's perfections. To repair these would be to emphasize these imperfections as something to be insecure about rather than accept that there are key components of you that don't deserve more and better attention (than say the traits and qualities you can improve on).
The true irony here is that you naturally got into shape after being overweight, but then entirely support those who want the easy way into changing themselves without effort. This I find baffling and furthering my conclusions about you
Onward we go: It's faster to judge someone physically and assume their personality than to fake a personality. If I judged you physically before you can come up to me and fake all your traits, guess what's more shallow and easier to perform?
Good try though, that was really cute. I really enjoyed that last throw of the spear. You didn't even justify why ugly people have ugly personalities, you dodged that completely. Did you take note at how, no matter what shape or form you are, your true personality shines in the end.
It's not ironic, you just misunderstand the importance of beauty in terms of classifying people. I believe most people are naturally attracted to beatiful people not because they are sexually stimulated, but because they see the worth in being attractive. Like I said earlier, being attractive implied initiative, where not being attractive does not. So lets throw an example out there. You have your standard girl, she isn't ugly but her older sister is always recognized more because she's a model. The older sister works out every day and cuts meals to maintain her appearance, where as the younger does not. The younger one could be as pretty if she tried, but she doesn't, for whatever reasons (lets say she is just lazy).
So the younger sister decides to get a boob job (fundamentally is useless, a lot of people have issues with their daughters getting them), and all of the men who ignored her for her older sister now flock to her. For a simple 4,000 usd or however much it costs, she efficiently forewent all of her sisters efforts, surpassing her in beauty. Now, is she a better or worse person for this? She's certainly lazier than her sister, but she is more attractive. Place the two in a room together, and a normal man would pick the lazy one over the older one. He has been decieved, he took the girl with the worse personality. Is this wrong? No, it's competition for the older sister to become prettier.
But as a bystander, it's not plausible for me to look at every single human being that I meet and say "Hm, did she get lyposuction? Are those real, or did she just put a lot of effort into working out," so I won't. I'll judge them at face value, and think better of the person thinking that they work out every day. Inversely, I'm forced to do the same thing with ugly people. I'm well aware that there are a lot of people with disorders that force them to be unattractive, or that people don't have the money to get surgery, but how many of them are just lazy? I'm forced to shaft the people who are truly at a disadvantage because of the vast majority who are lazy, in order to maintain my positive outlook on people who work to maintain their image. So here is my apology to all of the awesome non-lazy people who are unattractive, I'm sorry. It's a matter of efficiency, I can't meet every single person and shift through you like sand.
Your last statement is completely incorrect though, because my life is infinitely better now that I've hit the gym. My personality means jack shit, or else my "blast from the past" as you so coldly put it wouldnt' have been as terrible as it was, and I would never be the man that I was today. If my "personality" shone through in the end, then I should have been dating the girl of my dreams on the day of graduation instead of sitting in Tim Hortons eating a bagel, saying "gee, shoulda asked her out." With physical attractiveness comes respect, no matter how cold or retarded it is, that's the world we live in, I'm just the one pointing it out.
tl;dr I'm really not an asshole, and of course I have best friends who aren't attractive.. Stop acting like I want all of the ugly people in the world killed, I don't think being lazy is a mortal sin, it just isn't attractive to me. The blog is titled "attractiveness" after all, not "end all be all attributes of every perfect human"
I understand that I can't change the way you think so I'm not even going to bother. I am going to let time play it's role. I'll hope that one day, you'll realize how meaningless appearance really is. Maybe it is essential for getting ahead in this world but it is detrimental for establishing true character.
We sir, have two opposing points of views and values. One more idealistic and the other more superficial.
I hope that you'll realize one day that you should not always succumb to the values that society imposes on you. It may benefit you temporary but not in the long term. Good luck looking for a lifetime spouse unless your fine with going through the marriage process a couple times.
Honestly, I believe that someone should not try to alter their appearance, whether it be plastic surgery or makeup. This reveals that this person wants people to like them for how they look instead of who they are, which is a good sign of a weak character. (Note: People should always try to stay fit and healthy).
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
I don't think he needs to post anything. We already know he has a shit personality (as evidenced by his hate for people based on their appearance) - if hes put together, ugly, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that most of us find him repulsive and want nothing to do with him.
I just wonder if he applies the same logic and sweeping generalizations to all facets of his life, including race, gender etc. If someone is ugly then he hates them because they are lazy. If someone is African American or Aboriginal Canadian then he should hate them because they are a criminal. You can only be friends and interact with so many people so you should play it safe and screen out the lesser races.
So pathetic and shallow.
Fuck all the other shit. I wanna see if he's ugly.
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
I don't think he needs to post anything. We already know he has a shit personality (as evidenced by his hate for people based on their appearance) - if hes put together, ugly, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that most of us find him repulsive and want nothing to do with him.
I just wonder if he applies the same logic and sweeping generalizations to all facets of his life, including race, gender etc. If someone is ugly then he hates them because they are lazy. If someone is African American or Aboriginal Canadian then he should hate them because they are a criminal. You can only be friends and interact with so many people so you should play it safe and screen out the lesser races.
So pathetic and shallow.
Fuck all the other shit. I wanna see if he's ugly.
Haha, fair enough.
If hes ugly then he is proving his own point right, while being a hypocrite about other things he said.
If he isn't ugly, then he his proving that non-ugly people have shitty personalities.
=.= The guy you're all hating on isn't saying that he hates all ugly people. He's saying that he values people that put effort into improving their lives (as does everyone I'm sure) and that there is a correlation between putting effort into your life and being physically attractive. He's well aware that there are attractive people with shit personalities, and that there are ugly people with great personalities. If given the choice, he would choose to make friends only with people that have great personalities, regardless of their physical appearance. The problem is that it is very difficult to tell what someone's personality is like just from meeting them. Many people can put on fake personalities quite easily, and so in order to really figure out what kind of personality they have, you would have to befriend them and spend tons of time with them. Because you don't have the time to actually do this, you have to rely on other indicators to try and guess the person's personality. The guy is saying that because there is a correlation between a hardworking personality and physical attractiveness (i.e. lazy people tend to be fat), a convenient way to go about finding people with good personalities is to simply befriend mostly attractive people, since they are slightly more likely to be hardworking/other stuff. I really don't see what is so unreasonable about this (not that I'm capable of actually doing it). You miss out on tons of unattractive people with great personalities, but theoretically you are more likely to hit gold. It would be like Harvard only accepting people with 2400 SATs. Sure, they're missing out on tons of smart people, and sure, there are tons of idiots with 2400s, but if you can only choose 1 criterium to filter people by, the pool of people with 2400 SATs is more likely to have smart people. The guy would be shallow if he only cared about people's looks as the end of everything, and did not care about people's personalities at all. He doesn't. He clearly does care about personality, and is merely using appearance as an indicator. Rather than yelling angrily about how shallow and shitty he is, the way to change his mind would be to convince him that there is in fact no correlation between being hardworking and being fit/attractive, which might be kind of tough but totally go for it. I'm pretty sure that if it turned out to be the opposite--that more attractive people actually have shittier personalities--he would only make friends with ugly people (unless he had the time to actually get to know each and every person he meets).
On June 28 2011 05:15 CreamyButter wrote: =.= The guy you're all hating on isn't saying that he hates all ugly people. He's saying that he values people that put effort into improving their lives (as does everyone I'm sure) and that there is a correlation between putting effort into your life and being physically attractive. He's well aware that there are attractive people with shit personalities, and that there are ugly people with great personalities. If given the choice, he would choose to make friends only with people that have great personalities, regardless of their physical appearance. The problem is that it is very difficult to tell what someone's personality is like just from meeting them. Many people can put on fake personalities quite easily, and so in order to really figure out what kind of personality they have, you would have to befriend them and spend tons of time with them. Because you don't have the time to actually do this, you have to rely on other indicators to try and guess the person's personality. The guy is saying that because there is a correlation between a hardworking personality and physical attractiveness (i.e. lazy people tend to be fat), a convenient way to go about finding people with good personalities is to simply befriend mostly attractive people, since they are slightly more likely to be hardworking/other stuff. I really don't see what is so unreasonable about this (not that I'm capable of actually doing it). You miss out on tons of unattractive people with great personalities, but theoretically you are more likely to hit gold. It would be like Harvard only accepting people with 2400 SATs. Sure, they're missing out on tons of smart people, and sure, there are tons of idiots with 2400s, but if you can only choose 1 criterium to filter people by, the pool of people with 2400 SATs is more likely to have smart people. The guy would be shallow if he only cared about people's looks as the end of everything, and did not care about people's personalities at all. He doesn't. He clearly does care about personality, and is merely using appearance as an indicator. Rather than yelling angrily about how shallow and shitty he is, the way to change his mind would be to convince him that there is in fact no correlation between being hardworking and being fit/attractive, which might be kind of tough but totally go for it. I'm pretty sure that if it turned out to be the opposite--that more attractive people actually have shittier personalities--he would only make friends with ugly people (unless he had the time to actually get to know each and every person he meets).
Um, apparently you didn't actually read what the guy wrote?
"I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality."
Not out of context - taken from his first post. Not only is it wrong (because there isn't only 1 nice fat person for every 10,000 fat people), but he explicitly says that he doesn't like ugly people. He doesn't leave room for liking ugly people that have nice personalities.
On June 27 2011 16:14 NeverGG wrote: I often feel like I'm dismissed immediately by men (especially if I'm in the company of women who are attractive.) and it's hard to get out of the mind-set of 'I'm ugly so there's no point in trying.' Infact at the moment this is my entire mindset. Even if I had the best personality in the world since I'm ugly it doesn't really seem to matter.
I definitely feel as though I'd be treated better (by almost everyone) if I was considered attractive. As it is I have zero redeeming physical qualities, and have been mistaken for a man in the past more than once (which was during my years in university.) It hit my self-confidence so badly that I basically never recovered, and often find it hard to even look at myself in a mirror.
The upside of this is that I can easily have friendships with men without them becoming complicated by relationship issues. Also I'm never subject to sexual harassment problems either. Freed from the potential for romance I have plenty of time to pursue my hobbies, but I'm going to need to plan for my future with the idea of none of the additional benefits of having a partner ^^; (Well except my cat....)
P.S. Not everyone has the money or confidence to 'maintain their physical beauty.' I'd need thousands of dollars worth of surgery to make myself into something considered attractive. I don't even know where to begin - even the most basic things like clothes shopping are a self-conscious nightmare for me. I hate even going into shops, and trying things on is even worse.
People just have bad eyes. I've been mistake for a professor a few times.
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
A quick google finds Endymion looks like this
Since it's art, and not overly obscene, I don't have to say nsfw?
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
I don't think he needs to post anything. We already know he has a shit personality (as evidenced by his hate for people based on their appearance) - if hes put together, ugly, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that most of us find him repulsive and want nothing to do with him.
I just wonder if he applies the same logic and sweeping generalizations to all facets of his life, including race, gender etc. If someone is ugly then he hates them because they are lazy. If someone is African American or Aboriginal Canadian then he should hate them because they are a criminal. You can only be friends and interact with so many people so you should play it safe and screen out the lesser races.
So pathetic and shallow.
Fuck all the other shit. I wanna see if he's ugly.
Haha, fair enough.
If hes ugly then he is proving his own point right, while being a hypocrite about other things he said.
If he isn't ugly, then he his proving that non-ugly people have shitty personalities.
So you're upset at someone making a massive generalization, and proceed to do the same exact thing a sentence later...
The guy was just expressing his opinion, I can tell you I've met him in real life and he's not ugly. He's a good looking guy with a nice personality. While I don't agree with his post I think it's ridiculous how people jump on the TL bandwagon and relentlessly criticize someone.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
You need some help i know a co-worker of mine that being bullied when he was a kid and now hes just like a little kid in a grown-up man body
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
I don't think he needs to post anything. We already know he has a shit personality (as evidenced by his hate for people based on their appearance) - if hes put together, ugly, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that most of us find him repulsive and want nothing to do with him.
I just wonder if he applies the same logic and sweeping generalizations to all facets of his life, including race, gender etc. If someone is ugly then he hates them because they are lazy. If someone is African American or Aboriginal Canadian then he should hate them because they are a criminal. You can only be friends and interact with so many people so you should play it safe and screen out the lesser races.
So pathetic and shallow.
Fuck all the other shit. I wanna see if he's ugly.
Haha, fair enough.
If hes ugly then he is proving his own point right, while being a hypocrite about other things he said.
If he isn't ugly, then he his proving that non-ugly people have shitty personalities.
So you're upset at someone making a massive generalization, and proceed to do the same exact thing a sentence later...
The guy was just expressing his opinion, I can tell you I've met him in real life and he's not ugly. He's a good looking guy with a nice personality. While I don't agree with his post I think it's ridiculous how people jump on the TL bandwagon and relentlessly criticize someone.
How, exactly, did you expect people to react to "I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality."?
why are people going nuts over that guys statement? its 100% true. I can't change what I look like whenever I want but I can put on any personality I want to fit the company I am currently in very easily. This is why I dont understand why people value personalities over looks so highly ( or say they do) when I have about 50 different personalities I can put on in the blink of an eye.
Dont necessarily agree with the ugly people = terrible people part though
On June 28 2011 03:31 TadH wrote: The guy who said he hates ugly people needs to post a pic of himself ASAP.
I don't think he needs to post anything. We already know he has a shit personality (as evidenced by his hate for people based on their appearance) - if hes put together, ugly, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that most of us find him repulsive and want nothing to do with him.
I just wonder if he applies the same logic and sweeping generalizations to all facets of his life, including race, gender etc. If someone is ugly then he hates them because they are lazy. If someone is African American or Aboriginal Canadian then he should hate them because they are a criminal. You can only be friends and interact with so many people so you should play it safe and screen out the lesser races.
So pathetic and shallow.
Fuck all the other shit. I wanna see if he's ugly.
Haha, fair enough.
If hes ugly then he is proving his own point right, while being a hypocrite about other things he said.
If he isn't ugly, then he his proving that non-ugly people have shitty personalities.
So you're upset at someone making a massive generalization, and proceed to do the same exact thing a sentence later...
The guy was just expressing his opinion, I can tell you I've met him in real life and he's not ugly. He's a good looking guy with a nice personality. While I don't agree with his post I think it's ridiculous how people jump on the TL bandwagon and relentlessly criticize someone.
"Hey yeah, this guy epitomizes everything that is wrong with the vacuous, hedonistic, materialist, and superficial cultures that rampage through North American and East Asian cultures, but he really does have a nice personality."
On June 28 2011 05:15 CreamyButter wrote: =.= The guy you're all hating on isn't saying that he hates all ugly people. He's saying that he values people that put effort into improving their lives (as does everyone I'm sure) and that there is a correlation between putting effort into your life and being physically attractive. He's well aware that there are attractive people with shit personalities, and that there are ugly people with great personalities. If given the choice, he would choose to make friends only with people that have great personalities, regardless of their physical appearance. The problem is that it is very difficult to tell what someone's personality is like just from meeting them. Many people can put on fake personalities quite easily, and so in order to really figure out what kind of personality they have, you would have to befriend them and spend tons of time with them. Because you don't have the time to actually do this, you have to rely on other indicators to try and guess the person's personality. The guy is saying that because there is a correlation between a hardworking personality and physical attractiveness (i.e. lazy people tend to be fat), a convenient way to go about finding people with good personalities is to simply befriend mostly attractive people, since they are slightly more likely to be hardworking/other stuff. I really don't see what is so unreasonable about this (not that I'm capable of actually doing it). You miss out on tons of unattractive people with great personalities, but theoretically you are more likely to hit gold. It would be like Harvard only accepting people with 2400 SATs. Sure, they're missing out on tons of smart people, and sure, there are tons of idiots with 2400s, but if you can only choose 1 criterium to filter people by, the pool of people with 2400 SATs is more likely to have smart people. The guy would be shallow if he only cared about people's looks as the end of everything, and did not care about people's personalities at all. He doesn't. He clearly does care about personality, and is merely using appearance as an indicator. Rather than yelling angrily about how shallow and shitty he is, the way to change his mind would be to convince him that there is in fact no correlation between being hardworking and being fit/attractive, which might be kind of tough but totally go for it. I'm pretty sure that if it turned out to be the opposite--that more attractive people actually have shittier personalities--he would only make friends with ugly people (unless he had the time to actually get to know each and every person he meets).
Nah, he says that since there's no time to get to know everyone he meets he just bases his decisions on looks when he meets a person. All going by good looking -> most likely is doing something and is not lazy, not good looking -> lazy git, no point trying to see if they're different.
Well according to his blog that got bumped, it appears that he is just an immature 18 year old brat, so I wouldn't take what he says too seriously. He's probably too dumb to realize what he said and in his arrogance is actually trying to defend it.
On June 28 2011 15:11 Brees wrote: why are people going nuts over that guys statement? its 100% true. I can't change what I look like whenever I want but I can put on any personality I want to fit the company I am currently in very easily. This is why I dont understand why people value personalities over looks so highly ( or say they do) when I have about 50 different personalities I can put on in the blink of an eye.
See I have issues with that statement. What do you mean by personality? There are certain aspects to a person that are more difficult to change. Sure a person acts differently at work, and with their friends, and with their parents, and with their significant other. But that doesn't mean their personality changes. It just means they cater themselves to their surroundings. If I observe a person in all of those settings, I can still find commonalities that define their personality.
Here are three different definitions of personality from dictionary.com. 1. the visible aspect of one's character as it impresses others: He has a pleasing personality. 2. a person as an embodiment of a collection of qualities: He is a curious personality. 3. Psychology . a. the sum total of the physical, mental, emotional, and social characteristics of an individual. b. the organized pattern of behavioral characteristics of the individual.
It seems that you, and the original guy Endymion, are defining personality by the first definition, as in a set of actions that define a person. Yes, your actions change depending on your setting, and you might indeed have 50 different "personalities", but I take 3.a. to be a better definition of personality. There are aspects to a person that are difficult to change, and there are always moral choices of different levels of importance that can be used to define a character. I highly doubt you have 50 of those different types of personalities.
Just as an example, let's say you like Starcraft. If you don't tell your coworkers you like Starcraft, that doesn't mean you have a different personality when you tell your friends you like Starcraft. One of your defining traits might be either embarrassment or self consciousness towards your interests, or a desire to keep your personal and work life separate. That would be a personality trait. Liking Starcraft is not, and neither is the act of telling people. That is just a result of your personality trait.
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality.
Don't get me wrong, I don't respect a lot of people, but let's zoom in on this sentence here.
This statement is both incredibly naive and totally false. Sure, some ugly people become bitter about their appearance; and sure, some ugly people are ugly as a result of being poor quality people in the first place. There are plenty of people however who are ugly as sin, or are kind of ugly, but have golden personalities. These people really shine, regardless of how they look, and although I wouldn't date them it doesn't mean I don't have some measure of respect for them.
Good looking people are equally capable of being unworthy of respect, and this is sometimes a direct result of their being good looking. Most of the time these people are treated very favorably growing up, and they come to expect that treatment throughout life. They think they're special because people tell them that, and as a result they treat others like crap. These people develop a certain level of narcissism about their beauty, and thus they become totally ugly personality-wise. Carrie on Sex and the City described it as living in a bubble - you're not that great but people act like you are because your good-looking, and as a result you think you're great.
Take for example this girl in my brother's Grade 8 class whom I saw last night at their graduation. First of all, her name's Kasia which is an automatic attractive-girl name. She's also decent height, light-blonde, and beautiful. And guess what?
She's doomed.
She is too good looking at 13-14 years old. It is highly likely that when she gets to high school in the fall she is going to be fawned after by a lot of guys, including guys from the older grades. Depending on her parents and the values they've instilled in her, she may let all this attention go to her head, and it may corrupt her very quickly.
I've seen it happen when I was in Grade 9, where many of the hot girls in my grade became quite unsavory putanas really early on, and it's kind of weird when you think about how young they were.
I know there are always exceptions to the rule, and I know it's quite cynical. I'm merely saying that you should be cautious of people no matter what they look like. There are many contributing factors to personality, and good looks can go either way. I'd still only date good-looking persons, but I'm at least mature enough to realize they may not be super-great people until I've gotten to know them first.
i agree with a lot of the stuff in the OP! the looks-grow-on-you deal is very true for me - i have to know somebody for a long time before i can say i really like them. and personality-wise, i tend to go for quirky as well - a lot of the girls ive liked are kind of tomboy
and guys, come on, give the dude a break, he just posted shit without thinking... im sure hes not a bad guy like everyone is making him out to be
I think its pretty rare to be ugly to the point of being looked down upon / ignored. Attractiveness comes from personality, natural beauty and how you dress yourself, all 3 are equally important. I think many people are considered unattractive when they don't know how to dress themselves and make minimal effort to improve their bodies. And if you have a quiet / annoyingly loud outgoing personality in combination with those 2 flaws, its true that you will be treated different due to being an unattractive person. But really, very few unattractive people HAVE to be unattractive. Many people are considered unattractive because they're chubby or overweight. Their excuse is that they shouldn't have to look like a supermodel to attract a partner. That's a terribly lazy way of thinking. You can almost always make time to adjust to better eating habits and make room for exercise each day (or weekends maybe?). Similarly little things like getting regular hair-cuts / styling your hair / putting on make-up each day /using cologne / deodorant increases ones attractiveness but again that alone means little if you don't strive to improve your body as well. To look good you need to put in effort, and it sucks that it comes naturally for some people while for others they have to struggle, but its not impossible for 90% of unattractive people, so really its up to how badly you want it.
Personally I don't give an ugly girl the time of day romantically. But really, the only girls I find to be truly ugly are those that are overweight or anorexic. If they can't be bothered to put in the effort, I don't see much reason to pursue them. Shallow, perhaps. But you know what else is shallow?
People valuing a genetic gift of intelligence over a genetic gift of beauty. I mean, really, the person probably didn't earn either one of these (although both beauty and intelligence require a bit of maintenance). Yet you're so much more sophisticated because you value their intelligence? Heh.
Attraction is an interesting topic, in any case. I think it very much is not a choice so much as an effect on a person. So I have my doubts that it is valid to judge a person for who he is attracted to. I also have experienced this interesting phenomenon where girls become more attractive when I like them more. But I tended to be attracted to them to begin with, and this attraction just increases.
Seems to me that the more you post, the bigger a hole you're digging yourself into, Endymion my friend. But wait, we wouldn't be friends, because I don't have the discipline to maintain golden sun-kissed hair that ruffles oh so gently when there's a breeze, or a nice chiseled six pack. t.t
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
I'm assuming you're grouping yourself with the "attractive" group. Seems like your're a shallow asshole to me. I can't believe how hard you contradicted yourself in this post. Grow up.
I dunno, man, if he's being a shallow asshole, so maybe he includes himself in the "ugly" group.
On June 27 2011 17:51 frodoguy wrote: Is this a joke? Who the hell would actually think that appearance and personality are related?
You might be surprised. Although your personality isn't caused by your appearance, if you grew up as an attractive person, and were generally popular and well-liked in your formative years and sat at the cool kids' table in High School, that's very different than being an unattractive person and being ostracized from the popular group as a result. It changes who you are when you grow up under different circumstances.
On June 29 2011 01:44 Bereft wrote: Seems to me that the more you post, the bigger a hole you're digging yourself into, Endymion my friend. But wait, we wouldn't be friends, because I don't have the discipline to maintain golden sun-kissed hair that ruffles oh so gently when there's a breeze, or a nice chiseled six pack. t.t
I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
I have a different criteria, I can't respect people who aren't rich. I think that's a better measurement of drive than looks. Frankly, I rather marry a rich girl who is ridiculously ugly, than a good looking one who is begging for money. (she must have made the money herself and not inherited of course)
On June 27 2011 15:13 Endymion wrote: I can't respect ugly girls, just like I can't respect ugly guys. It's not even a sexual thing, I just don't like ugly people because 99.99% of the time their appearance reflects their personality. That said, I don't respect every attractive person I know, but physical appearances are an initial cut off for me.
Ok after I've been burned at the stake I may as well edit my post. I used to live in a really hostile middle school/high school environment that only cared about physical appearance, not personality or merit. So I was weened on this mindset, and being a fat kid had its definite downs. But now through all the pain I've learned to place fitness above eating, and I'm happily fit and anorexic now. Thus, I find people who call themselves "big-boned" a bit abrasive, especially when they look down on eating disorders or fitness. Also, I don't really like people who think plastic surgery is messing up a girls "natural" beauty when it's the girl's choice to correct her imperfections.
For the people who think I'm shallow, you're just as shallow as me if you care about a personality as much as I value physical beauty, in fact more so because it's easier to shed who you are rather than what you are. I can go to a sports game and be super social, then have dinner with my parents, then be an introvert and play Starcraft for 12 hours, all in one day. Which aspect do you prefer, because I can fake any of them for you, where as I can't really fake what I am unless I commit to surgery or serious physical activity. This makes working out a sort of "achievement," showing that you've committed to something, opposed to money or friends which I could just deceive you about. Judging by a personality is like judging a book by its cover, you need all aspects of the person, not just one.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but don't demean me by labeling me "shallow".....
for that edit I want to burn you 2 more times one for each additional paragraph.
allow me: 1) You are fit and anorexic? Those two don't go together. What do you mean by fit? If you mean fit by skinny limbs and hollow cheeks that's not fit.
2) You say care about personality is shallow and care about appearance is not? Do you even know what it means to be shallow? define shallow
3) You think personality is about money or friends? What kind of interpretation is that? Again. define personality
Maybe I am too harsh, allow me to re-phrase your post so that it makes more sense, I think I know where you are coming from...
You value appearance above personality because it shows commitment of one's will to change one's image. One can be as slick with words and smooth with social interaction as possible without much motivation or effort, but one cannot fake physical fitness without efforts. When you see someone who is fit, it tells you that they have been dedicated, and actively maintaining their health. Thus judging by fitness you gain information of one's personality, that the person is a willful and dedicated individual.
Through a person's words and his friends, it is sometimes hard to tell if a person has genuinely a good personality or is he faking them. Therefore judging a person by these qualities make it hard to access a person's worthiness of a friendship. On the contrary, judging by a person's fitness can immediately tell if a person is motivated and dedicated (to some extend), and is a much accurate predictor.
Now for what I don't agree with what's in your post: 1) Misunderstanding of personality: Personality is not social status nor deceiving or your circle of friends. It is a set of thoughts and believes that defines a person and his actions. When one commit to exercise it is his personality that drives him to do so.
2) Advocate of plastic surgery: Which is absolutely okay but if you put it here it does not fit the overall theme of your argument. Plastic surgery is a way of attaining beauty without putting in any effort, and as a result when you see somebody who has a plastic surgery, you CANNOT tell anything about the person's personality. For this reason you would be better off refraining from this in your post.
3) Are you jaded? Let me guess, you are some teenager. If you are any older than that, please, mature up or you'll be in trouble.
Life goes like this: Kid (everything awesome, and bright) Teen (everything sucks, black) Adult (everything is different shades of gray)
I'm sure you're in the teen phase, which is okay and you'll grow out of it. That is by no means "jaded", in fact the way you sound is very very prude.
On June 28 2011 23:20 shinosai wrote: Personally I don't give an ugly girl the time of day romantically. But really, the only girls I find to be truly ugly are those that are overweight or anorexic. If they can't be bothered to put in the effort, I don't see much reason to pursue them. Shallow, perhaps. But you know what else is shallow?
People valuing a genetic gift of intelligence over a genetic gift of beauty. I mean, really, the person probably didn't earn either one of these (although both beauty and intelligence require a bit of maintenance). Yet you're so much more sophisticated because you value their intelligence? Heh.
Attraction is an interesting topic, in any case. I think it very much is not a choice so much as an effect on a person. So I have my doubts that it is valid to judge a person for who he is attracted to. I also have experienced this interesting phenomenon where girls become more attractive when I like them more. But I tended to be attracted to them to begin with, and this attraction just increases.
Personality != Intelligence.
Intelligence is just about as meaningless as physical looks if your personality is repulsive.
On June 28 2011 15:11 Brees wrote: why are people going nuts over that guys statement? its 100% true. I can't change what I look like whenever I want but I can put on any personality I want to fit the company I am currently in very easily. This is why I dont understand why people value personalities over looks so highly ( or say they do) when I have about 50 different personalities I can put on in the blink of an eye.
See I have issues with that statement. What do you mean by personality? There are certain aspects to a person that are more difficult to change. Sure a person acts differently at work, and with their friends, and with their parents, and with their significant other. But that doesn't mean their personality changes. It just means they cater themselves to their surroundings. If I observe a person in all of those settings, I can still find commonalities that define their personality.
Here are three different definitions of personality from dictionary.com. 1. the visible aspect of one's character as it impresses others: He has a pleasing personality. 2. a person as an embodiment of a collection of qualities: He is a curious personality. 3. Psychology . a. the sum total of the physical, mental, emotional, and social characteristics of an individual. b. the organized pattern of behavioral characteristics of the individual.
It seems that you, and the original guy Endymion, are defining personality by the first definition, as in a set of actions that define a person. Yes, your actions change depending on your setting, and you might indeed have 50 different "personalities", but I take 3.a. to be a better definition of personality. There are aspects to a person that are difficult to change, and there are always moral choices of different levels of importance that can be used to define a character. I highly doubt you have 50 of those different types of personalities.
Just as an example, let's say you like Starcraft. If you don't tell your coworkers you like Starcraft, that doesn't mean you have a different personality when you tell your friends you like Starcraft. One of your defining traits might be either embarrassment or self consciousness towards your interests, or a desire to keep your personal and work life separate. That would be a personality trait. Liking Starcraft is not, and neither is the act of telling people. That is just a result of your personality trait.
that example is a poor one, thats not what I mean by changing personalities. I mean that I can completely remake who I am through the use of words and actions, not pretend I have different hobbies.
the purpose of attractiveness is reproduction, if shallow ppl are too picky, then by definition less shallow ppl will have sex more often than they do and outbreed them, and in about 1 million years the shallow ppl will be driven into extinction.
On June 28 2011 15:11 Brees wrote: why are people going nuts over that guys statement? its 100% true. I can't change what I look like whenever I want but I can put on any personality I want to fit the company I am currently in very easily. This is why I dont understand why people value personalities over looks so highly ( or say they do) when I have about 50 different personalities I can put on in the blink of an eye.
See I have issues with that statement. What do you mean by personality? There are certain aspects to a person that are more difficult to change. Sure a person acts differently at work, and with their friends, and with their parents, and with their significant other. But that doesn't mean their personality changes. It just means they cater themselves to their surroundings. If I observe a person in all of those settings, I can still find commonalities that define their personality.
Here are three different definitions of personality from dictionary.com. 1. the visible aspect of one's character as it impresses others: He has a pleasing personality. 2. a person as an embodiment of a collection of qualities: He is a curious personality. 3. Psychology . a. the sum total of the physical, mental, emotional, and social characteristics of an individual. b. the organized pattern of behavioral characteristics of the individual.
It seems that you, and the original guy Endymion, are defining personality by the first definition, as in a set of actions that define a person. Yes, your actions change depending on your setting, and you might indeed have 50 different "personalities", but I take 3.a. to be a better definition of personality. There are aspects to a person that are difficult to change, and there are always moral choices of different levels of importance that can be used to define a character. I highly doubt you have 50 of those different types of personalities.
Just as an example, let's say you like Starcraft. If you don't tell your coworkers you like Starcraft, that doesn't mean you have a different personality when you tell your friends you like Starcraft. One of your defining traits might be either embarrassment or self consciousness towards your interests, or a desire to keep your personal and work life separate. That would be a personality trait. Liking Starcraft is not, and neither is the act of telling people. That is just a result of your personality trait.
that example is a poor one, thats not what I mean by changing personalities. I mean that I can completely remake who I am through the use of words and actions, not pretend I have different hobbies.
You are going have to be a little more specific and provide me examples. You can remake who you are through words and actions? Well who were you before you remade yourself, and who were you after?
I would also like to point out that what you quoted me from, I already addressed that I picture personality differently. You seem to think it is only words and actions, but I would argue it includes things like opinions, likes and dislikes, and yes hobbies. Hobbies are what you choose to spend your time on, so they represent some value which you have given to them. Thus, they are naturally part of your personality.
How exactly do you remake that through the use of words and actions? Do you mean you lie? I guess that's fine, but I imagine the cognitive dissonance can't be comfortable. I would still tend to think that most people do not lie about their personality, or at the very least only lie by omission. I could be wrong, but wouldn't you say that very few people purposefully change their personality often?