) Thanks for all the replies, but I feel like some doesn't even read the whole blog >.>
Ok, I never think that I would make a blog (my life is so uninteresting), but I'm in some bad shit right now. As the blog's name suggested, I'm getting sued for piracy. I feel like the lighting just hit my wallet. Fucking unfortunate.
So here's the story. The entertainment industry is trying to get its money back from pirates by using the pay or else scare tactic, forcing an unfortunate or uneducated pirates to pay hundreds to thousands for early settlement to avoid a costly lawsuit. I am among the unfortunates (actually, I am the uneducated. I never bother to use VPN or peer guardian to make myself safe.) The funny part is from all things I pirated I got sue over porn -_- . Thinking right now, it's understandable that porn industry would want a lot of money from pirates, but...porn that I barely watch...really? fml.
The settlement offer is $3,400 and will expire at the end of this month. Is there anyway for me not to pay the settlement and avoid the lawsuit? or do I have to accept my fate and stupidity. I started to do some research on this and learned that most lawsuits never go to court; still, I don't know anything about law so I don't want to make any risky move. I would be very grateful if anyone can give me some advice. Take note that I'm 17 , studying abroad in the US and living with my aunt. So any lawyer up would be a bit awkward and complicated. ***massive sigh***
TL DR; If you use torrent, make some effort to protect yourself or you're gonna get fucked like me. Any law advice would be grateful.
Edit: Just hit F5 and instantly see a reply, damn TL is fast. Perhaps I should be more specific about the details. I got a letter from Steele/Hansmeier, PLLC An anti-piracy law firm. They have my IP address, the download date, the file I downloaded, pretty much everything
Edit#2 : Ok, now I need to let off some steam. I'm 17, studying abroad in the US and living with my aunt who is a pediatric doctor. She just came to my room and said her record might get ruined forever (Some people probably doesn't want a pediatric who download porn to nurse their children. Understandable. but how can some be that judging. Sometimes I just hate people and myself.) , and, of course she is disappointed in me ( she thought I'm just an innocent nerd who plays videogames all the time. That's 99.99% true, but this incident just fucked everything up.) FUCK. If I live by myself and provide for myself, I would gladly accept this lawsuit consequence. But dragging my aunt down with me makes me feel 1million times worse. Fuck, I have tears in my eyes more than when I watch GoT + Show Spoiler +
No choice but to pack up your bags, get a fake mustache, change your name to Juan, and catch the next bus to Mehico my friend?
Seriously, I Dunno what you should do since I don't know what evidence they have. If they only have IP addresses, you can clear your computer of the porn, defragment the folder, and then switch to a new IP by just turning off your router for a night, or going into the router configurations if you're daring enough. Then just delete the email, and claim someone else used that IP. Clear your browser cache and defrag that too. Then just claim ignorance.edit: keep the email. Don't claim ignorance of it.
"What email? I didn't get an email telling me to pay $3400 by the end of the month"
I don't want you to take my advice though. It's too much responsibility if you do get taken to court. I hear the maximum fine is quite high.
Im really curious as to how this happened and how it works. I mean do they have some way that they monitor torrent downloads and if so do they make a list of people and just target some at random ? How do they obtain the locations of illegal file sharers. How did they find you ? Who is bringing these charges against you ? The state ? The music porn industry ? An individual acting on their behalf ?
Given that millions of people the world over use torrents and given its somewhat decentralized nature(not client/server), its beyond me just how something like this can happen to someone.
Im not a lawyer so I cant help and im sorry, I wish I could, but Ive always wanted to know the details behind incidents where people actually got sued for torrents and other media obtained via p2p networks. Ive never had to opportunity to interact with someone who has actually been sued for it. I apologize for my inquisitive nature but would it be too much trouble to give a little more background into this ?
I doubt the porn industry would actually fight a legal battle with you, it would be more cost than its worth. If you try to fight it they will probably just drop the case or low ball it massively and your'll get out of your issue with a very small pay up. Its not dissimilar from a traffic ticket in those regards I'd expect.
Oh, another thread you should definitely check out. I remember someone in Germany getting sued for something similar. Although a lot of the information doesn't translate to the US due to the US having different laws, some of the information in the thread is quite helpful.
On August 18 2011 13:24 lizzard_warish wrote: I doubt the porn industry would actually fight a legal battle with you, it would be more cost than its worth. If you try to fight it they will probably just drop the case or low ball it massively and your'll get out of your issue with a very small pay up. Its not dissimilar from a traffic ticket in those regards I'd expect.
The overall cost would be a lot cheaper if it actually discourages people from trying to get them illegally, at least that is probably what they are hoping.
i feel bad for ya bro, but at the same time i hope this will reduce piracy from happening as it's pretty much giving the finger to hard working people. i'd hire a consultant to see my options if i were you, and go from there.
On August 18 2011 13:24 lizzard_warish wrote: I doubt the porn industry would actually fight a legal battle with you, it would be more cost than its worth. If you try to fight it they will probably just drop the case or low ball it massively and your'll get out of your issue with a very small pay up. Its not dissimilar from a traffic ticket in those regards I'd expect.
The overall cost would be a lot cheaper if it actually discourages people from trying to get them illegally, at least that is probably what they are hoping.
Yea, idk how they pick their targets specifically, but the idea is that you then come onto forums and the other posters get scared and delete all of their illegal materials and never torrent again.
On August 18 2011 12:43 boon2537 wrote: Take note that I'm 17 , studying abroad in the US and living with my aunt. So any lawyer up would be a bit awkward and complicated. ***massive sigh***
Get over the social awkwardness of the situation. Saving face with your guardian does not outweigh the significantly negative legal and economic impacts incorrectly responding to this will have.
Edit: Also awkwardness and losing face is potentially inevitable in your situation.
I'm with Plexa, this sounds bogus as hell. I don't want to give you any advice, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if nothing happens if you ignore it based on all those links.
Sounds like a scam to me. Probably what they're doing is legal, they just hope to scare uneducated people into paying up.
Everyone I know who got legitmately caught for piracy were contacted via their ISP. Not some third party agency, which sounds really fishy to me.
If all they have is your IP, filename, and date of download, then all that means is that they were also seeding/leaching the same torrent as you. Anyone that torrents can get that information easily. Unless they have your social security number (or whatever equivilent from your nation of origin), I would ignore it.
The fact that you are 17 and study abroad actually protects you, because you're considered both a minor and are protected by international law. So even if for some bizzare reason legal action would be taken, it would be against your home mom and not you. But I seriously doubt anything would happen. Your host mom doesn't need to worry about her "reputation being ruined". Even if there was prosecution, as long as guilt was admitted, the records would be sealed from the public.
On August 18 2011 13:45 Backpack wrote: Yea, idk how they pick their targets specifically, but the idea is that you then come onto forums and the other posters get scared and delete all of their illegal materials and never torrent again.
Epic lulz highlighted in blue. Yeah right like im gonna delete all my porn because of a forum post(No disrespect to the OP and his problem)
On August 18 2011 13:45 Backpack wrote: Yea, idk how they pick their targets specifically, but the idea is that you then come onto forums and the other posters get scared and delete all of their illegal materials and never torrent again.
Epic lulz highlighted in blue. Yeah right like im gonna delete all my porn because of a forum post(No disrespect to the OP and his problem)
They send those out en mass, chances are you aren't alone in it. Still, from what I have heard from other people, don't just send an anyonomous party almost $4k. Shred the letter if you got it and chances are nothing will happen.
On August 18 2011 13:45 Backpack wrote: Yea, idk how they pick their targets specifically, but the idea is that you then come onto forums and the other posters get scared and delete all of their illegal materials and never torrent again.
Epic lulz highlighted in blue. Yeah right like im gonna delete all my porn because of a forum post(No disrespect to the OP and his problem)
Don't seed :p
ggnore law firms
Actually when it comes to porn I dont use torrents. I use video leeching software. I also get movies that way too. Play them online and leech.
On August 18 2011 13:21 Gatsbi wrote: Be wary... there's lots of scams around this sort of stuff.
I would be very careful and makes sure you get absolute confirmation that this is genuine. I have no idea how the American legal system works but there must be some way to chase the information they have sent to you. Is there a case number or something like that take it up with proper authorities and check it’s real. It may suck or be embarrassing to talk to people about it. But if it is a scam that’s what their hoping will happen, people just pay because they are too embarrassed.
On August 18 2011 13:45 Backpack wrote: Yea, idk how they pick their targets specifically, but the idea is that you then come onto forums and the other posters get scared and delete all of their illegal materials and never torrent again.
Epic lulz highlighted in blue. Yeah right like im gonna delete all my porn because of a forum post(No disrespect to the OP and his problem)
Don't seed :p
ggnore law firms
Actually when it comes to porn I dont use torrents. I use video leeching software. I also get movies that way too. Play them online and leech.
I don't torrent porn either, that rule goes for tormenting other IP.
On August 18 2011 13:45 Backpack wrote: Yea, idk how they pick their targets specifically, but the idea is that you then come onto forums and the other posters get scared and delete all of their illegal materials and never torrent again.
Epic lulz highlighted in blue. Yeah right like im gonna delete all my porn because of a forum post(No disrespect to the OP and his problem)
Don't seed :p
ggnore law firms
Actually when it comes to porn I dont use torrents. I use video leeching software. I also get movies that way too. Play them online and leech.
I don't torrent porn either, that rule goes for tormenting other IP.
How the fuck does a law advice blog turn into a good porn site discussion. Still, all the replies keep my blog on the front, so a kind knowledgeable individual might see it. I take no offense, go crazy.
On August 18 2011 14:23 boon2537 wrote: How the fuck does a law advice blog turn into a good porn site discussion. Still, all the replies keep my blog on the front, so a kind knowledgeable individual might see it. I take no offense, go crazy.
These aren't just good porn sites. They are massive, safe, litigation-free repositories of porn.
But really, if you stuck to porn sites, you wouldn't be threatened with such a frivolous lawsuit. Anyways, don't pay their settlement, they have no other evidence other than your IP address.
I got jack shit knowledge about law, and you need to talk to someone that do i guess. But what i would do in this situation is just completely deny you ever doing such a thing, and that someone else stole your wifi (this should work even if you don't have one, they have better things to do than check up on such details; if you are really paranoid just get one or maybe at least read up and remember a certain model in case they ask which one you have). There is no way they can prove someone else didn't download the file, and the worst thing you have done is similar to leaving your door unlocked. stupid but not illegal.
I am just speculating here however so you should get some legal advice, don't admit anything to them either however; makes it easier for them.
On August 18 2011 14:34 nttea wrote: I got jack shit knowledge about law, and you need to talk to someone that do i guess. But what i would do in this situation is just completely deny you ever doing such a thing, and that someone else stole your wifi (this should work even if you don't have one, they have better things to do than check up on such details; if you are really paranoid just get one or maybe at least read up and remember a certain model in case they ask which one you have). There is no way they can prove someone else didn't download the file, and the worst thing you have done is similar to leaving your door unlocked. stupid but not illegal.
I am just speculating here however so you should get some legal advice, don't admit anything to them either however; makes it easier for them.
I just read the contents of link 1 (which by the way is broken for some reason) which I must apologise for not doing before my initial post and it talks about how this is absolutely not an excuse and has gone through the courts before and failed almost every time.
Reading that link does make it sound a lot more like it might be genuine and not a scam I'm afraid. But I still encourage you to do everything in your power to absolutely confirm it’s real.
I and I’m guessing almost everyone else that will reply to your post will not be in a well enough informed position to tell you what to do if it is real. If any similar cases go through the courts or a settled before you’re deadline is up it would be a good idea to see what happens in them.
Read this thread for general advice. Then accept that you have three choices. Get a lawyer, ignore it or pay up. I wouldn't recommend the third option or the fourth, unsaid, "Taking internet advice about something that can fuck you over royally" option.
Contact a lawyer or if you feel very ballsy ignore it. But I've had intimidation letters sent before and while scary at first, amounted to nothing. Except the ass beating I gave my friend for using shit public trackers at my place.
Doubt it's a scam if they have that info, and what others have said is actually somewhat mindboggling in its ignorance -- $3400 isn't worth going to court over. Obviously that's true, which is why the companies offer it as an out of court settlement.
The companies that fire off thousands of letters like this have no intention whatsoever of taking anyone to court but the most egregious of offenders, nor would they have any chance of winning a case against any but those individuals. If 10% of those who are sent letters pony up the small out of court fee, the company makes back some if not all of the money it lost.
If that's all the letter talked about, then I'd ignore it. If you get more letters, consult with an attorney. Whatever the company is, they are not going to take you to court over one downloaded product.
On August 18 2011 14:39 jenzebubble wrote: Please do not take legal advice from random people on the internet.
This needs to be the first post in any "legal advice" thread.
That said, you've probably done more research on the matter and understand what you're up against better than anyone who has replied to you with "advice." It's not clear from your post whether you've actually been sued. If you received the letter/email via your ISP, all the law firm has is your IP address, a time, and what you downloaded. They don't know who you are yet. Your ISP, most likely, isn't going to bend over backwards to supply the firm with that information either. They're just hoping that you pay up and they don't have to spend any time/money going after you. Besides making an example out of a few people, it really isn't worth their effort to attempt to file suit. Most people are just going to ignore it and cross their fingers.
If they actually do file suit, there's a cheap option to fight back. When these suits first became popular, an attorney named Graham Syfert made some self-help forms, which he sells for $20. At the very least, you'd want to file a motion to quash and a motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction. From what I've read, judges are getting pretty pissed at these suits and are very willing to dismiss them given any good reason.
Getting a lawyer to deal with these blackmail letters is impractical because a lawyer is going to end up costing you more than the settlement. That's the entire point of the scheme for the copyright holders and the law firms that represent them. However, you did break the law, and you could certainly get screwed by ignoring them or fighting back if they sue. The risk is your choice.
(Disclaimer: I am a lawyer. I'm not your lawyer. I'm not an expert in these issues, and you should definitely seek out second opinions before doing anything that could jeopardize your legal rights in this matter.)
I don't see it said anywhere, but have you contacted whoever sent the letter? Just thinking that if you do, your options get a lot worse.
ShadowDrgn definitely has the right ideas. There's a lot of information not listed. We don't know how they found you, how you got the letter, whether anything is filed or not. You can probably find at least at lawyer to talk to you for a consult. That'd be the best suggestion.
Also, this is why you *never* use a public tracker.
If you want a possibly cheap alternative, you can always purchase the basic motion to quash forms and mail them to the lawyer representing the plaintiff. Information about the product is in the first link, and the purchase link is the second.
I don't know if it's different in the US, but here in Germany law firms send tons of those mails but never follow up on them unless you call them and say "yeah, i downloaded it and a lot of other stuff, too". Got one about a year ago, put it in the trash and never heard of them again.
It's not legal advice though. When in doubt, ask a lawyer.
ShadowDrgn definitely has the right ideas. There's a lot of information not listed. We don't know how they found you, how you got the letter, whether anything is filed or not.
Again just speaking for the german situation: The lawfirms sue in mass, get the neccessary papers, send them to the ISP and drop everything again as soon as they have the adress. Produces a lot of paperwork but costs them almost nothing. Time for a sue-fee... a hundred euro every time you file something would finally stop that scaremail stuff... though ofc it would prevent poor people from suing anyone which is also bad :-/
in germany you pretty much only have to react to this type of letter when a court sends it to you. So go see a lawyer and he will be able to tell you if you have to react
ShadowDrgn says pretty much what I've heard. I'm reading TorrentFreak regularly and at least over there it seems like judges are throwing out these cases regularly if they actually go to court.
You have a right to torrent their files if you actually own the files in question (such as you own the DVD, given by a friend, etc). If you want to defend it safely the cheap way, you can purchase (or have a friend purchase) what you torrented and then tell them that you already own the DVD, and was torrenting for an electronic copy (can't rip DVD or some other excuse). This would be a legitimate use of the torrent. You actually did download this right?
That said, IANAL (I am not a Lawyer), just speaking from what I've heard from other people's experiences.
Also, your Aunt is obviously shocked and you should reassure her that this was your mistake, but no one is going to care that she downloads porn as a pediatric or find out, and even if she did lose her job over this, she would actually have very good grounds to sue on. (Either where she works, or the company that sued you)
Edit: Just read the torrent stuff, and if you plan to defend yourself using the forms for Motion to Quash etc, then this defense might weaken your case. (But then again, if you did download, you probably have no case anyway, whereas you would have a case if you own this DVD/file)
This really depends of where you live. For example, in Belgium, there are no such things as illegal downloading. Websites that gives the opportunity for downloading are illegal tough.
If you download an mp3 album, video games, movies for free it's not illegal.
Why? There are no legislations in Belgium. How cool is my country?
I'd bet alot that it's a scam. They use spyware or something similar on something 'embarrassing' like a porn file and then offer a cash settlement once you DL it. They just wanna make money off noobs who are scared of being labelled as porn-users in court. No way a legit company is taking you to court over this. Just see a lawyer and they'll confirm it's bullshit.
This whole thing is funny. Out of all the things you could get legally screwed for downloading, you got screwed for porn. Porn is borderline legal and they still have the nerve to sue somebody over it. I sincerely hope they get a legal asskicking for this bullshit they are trying on you, should this not really be a scam and all.
On August 18 2011 18:13 stink123 wrote: You have a right to torrent their files if you actually own the files in question (such as you own the DVD, given by a friend, etc).
This is not true unless... you somehow have your client set up to not upload when you download, which is doubtful.
On August 18 2011 18:13 stink123 wrote: You have a right to torrent their files if you actually own the files in question (such as you own the DVD, given by a friend, etc).
This is not true unless... you somehow have your client set up to not upload when you download, which is doubtful.
Yup. Usually, downloading is not the problem (IANAL, but it might even be legal since there is no indication that the uploader doesn't have the distribution rights and otherwise, any time you download something from anywhere, it might be illegal without you having any indication), the sharing is the big problem.
Torrent clients upload the content while downloading which is violating copyright since you do not possess the rights to distribute the content.
Anyways, as i said, i am not a lawyer and any legal advice you will get in this thread has a high chance to be wrong
I would recommend that you ignore the letter. I would also recommend that you go see a lawyer for advice, since I am not an expert in copyright law.
yea afaik, there are people that just send out thousands of letters to random homes in hopes of taking at least 1 bite from one coincidental downloader. Its kinda similar to the nigerian 419 scams. They email tons of people until 1 idiot takes the bait. not saying you are an idiot, just that you were the target here.
Any serious settlement offer will be mailed, not e-mailed (I am not a lawyer). If they had subpoena your ISP, they would had your home address, not just your email.
On August 18 2011 18:13 stink123 wrote: You have a right to torrent their files if you actually own the files in question (such as you own the DVD, given by a friend, etc). If you want to defend it safely the cheap way, you can purchase (or have a friend purchase) what you torrented and then tell them that you already own the DVD, and was torrenting for an electronic copy (can't rip DVD or some other excuse). This would be a legitimate use of the torrent. You actually did download this right?
You do have the right to make an archival copy of copyrighted material you own, but I doubt buying the DVD after the fact is going to help. In a civil trial, the judge/jury rules based on a preponderance of the evidence, which simply means whichever side presents the more believable case wins. If you are on a jury for this case, what are you more likely to believe: OP torrented the file to make a backup copy of a DVD he already owned, or OP bought the DVD after he got caught.
As for the legality of uploading and downloading, both are "copying" and therefore copyright infringement. So far, bittorrent users have been sued for downloading because it's easy to prove. If you connect to a torrent and go from 0% to 100% of the file, the copyright holder knows you downloaded it. They don't, however, know what you uploaded. If they connect to the torrent and download the file themselves, at most they catch you uploading parts (unless you happen to be the only other person on the torrent, I suppose). Other countries do have different laws regarding uploading and downloading content, but in the US, they're essentially the same.
To clear up some confusion on how these letters/e-mails get sent out: 1) Copyright holder / law firm connects to torrent, gets a list of IP addresses and times of people sharing their content. 2) Firm contacts your ISP and sends them your IP address and the time of download. 3) ISP figures out what account that had that IP address at that time. 4) ISP forwards on firm's letter/email to you and probably tells you to stop violating copyright or they'll cut you off.
What may happen after: 5) If you don't settle, firm files a lawsuit against your IP address anonymously and subpoenas ISP for your identity. 6) ISP complies with subpoena (this is what a motion to quash is designed to prevent). 7) Law firm updates suit with your identity to replace the IP address they sued. 8) Lawsuit proceeds as normal.
Sorry to bump, but I'm really interested in how this ended or whether there was any update? Was it a scam? Did you get screwed? What happened? Anyone else have a similar experience or know of a similar thing happening and how did it end? I guess I could PM but I’m sure others are interested too.