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I've recently found TL a it more reddit-ish.
People derail and talk about random crap all the time and it doesn't appear to be moderated. I wonder if TL needs a new round of moderators or a new policy to bring back clean and decipherable discussion to a website which has slipped a little.
In no way is TL suddenly the worst thing in the world, it's no 9gag. I just feel like discussion has become much more a shouting match as there are no punishments for derailing/not reading the OP.
All I want from this blog is to see what people's thoughts are on the matter, especially some of the more experienced members.
I've only been a member since SC2 and an active poster for maybe the past year so I don't exactly have a rich history with forums. However I've heavily embraced the culture both here and sc2sea since starting my gaming career.
So... do you think TL needs to be more heavily moderated? Do you feel discussions are often derailed and misdirected by trolls/morons that can't read?
Any feedback is appreciated!
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Italy12246 Posts
Yeah more moderation would be nice i guess.
I get the feeling the mods themselves have given up on holding off all the stupidity as it's too much, especially in the sc2 section, and they kinda only punish the most obvious awful posts/posters.
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TL was really loosely moderated until SC2. Tons of nasty shit went down and nobody cared since everyone knew each other.
I think there are too many idiots to ban now and banlings kinda gave up except for the most egregious ones.
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More people means a more diversified line and subject of topics. You can't police that and you can't make specific rules to put conversation in order. If it derails, it derails and it will die as less people get interested.
I don't think its anything like Reddit to be honest and besides; Reddit isn't too bad if you only look at the top.
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Theres just waaaaaaaay too many people and shitty posts, I imagine its hard to keep up with all the crap going on, hell each LR thread for sc2 needs its own moderating team. However its also up to the users to use their report button so that mods can more easily find bad posters and remove them..but use the report feature wisely...or it may get taken away from you.
On October 30 2012 06:20 Condor Hero wrote: TL was really loosely moderated until SC2. Tons of nasty shit went down and nobody cared since everyone knew each other.
hehehehehehe
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I think TL moderation toes the line between guiding effective discussion and censorship rather well. Most of the posters who spit bile all the time do end up banned or with different posting habits; a side effect of being a tolerant, diverse, international community is allowing people the opportunity to "learn to play ball". It just so happens that there are a great number of people in various stages of that process at the moment due the high number of new/low count posters.
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Kind of agree. I miss the regime.
Then again, I would argue it's up to us to bring it to moderators' attention by diligently reporting posts.
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As someone who has been making the effort to forgo /r/starcraft in favor of TL (I was actually pretty nervous to post here for the majority of the two years I have played for fear of the ban hammer), I appreciate the leniency I have seen from mods here. I have gotten warned, but it was completely through my own ignorance of TL policy.
Perhaps the solution is both one of increased reporting by responsible users and recruiting a couple new moderators from the more senior users?
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This should be posted in Website Feedback. How's that for moderation.
User was warned for this post
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ABSOLUTELY not. its borderline communist-like as it is right now. certain mods are more vigilant against certain people and certain topics. most pick and choose what they want displayed, a lot of which is based on their opinion. if anything it needs to get toned down.
this community is already as vanilla as they come, why do u want more of that?
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On October 30 2012 06:18 Teoita wrote: Yeah more moderation would be nice i guess.
I get the feeling the mods themselves have given up on holding off all the stupidity as it's too much, especially in the sc2 section, and they kinda only punish the most obvious awful posts/posters.
I think it's 2 years later or so.
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It's not for lack of manpower. TL just has different interests now. You used to see far more outright bans from the site, now you see a lot of 2 day bans for stuff that wouldn't have flown before. Bad posters keep coming back and making more bad posts. TL is reluctant to lose users these days, since it shifted from being about a 12 year old game only crazy people care about, to being a viable business.
Another thing that doesn't help is that there's lots of mods who post like shit lol. But threads like these are made all the time. In the end, if you are tired of reading TL, take a break. The more you read, the more crap you find, the less you read, the more you only read the cream of the crop. That is my consistent experience with TL no matter what year it was.
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I was reading the moletrap thread and felt like 30% of the posts were ban-worthy. People didn't even try to be nice.
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I would definitely support more moderation - I don't really like having to deal with trolls / posters who can't bother to read the OP. Seems like there's been a whole bunch more of both of those as of late
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I've been reading the forums for about 5 years, give or take. SC2 brought in a ton of idiots and trolls. SO many times in a strategy forum [H] thread, people don't even read the OP, or resort to balance whining. And don't even bother mentioning LR threads and the SC2 general threads. I scrolled through last night's GSL LR thread, and it was seriously cringe-worthy.
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First off,
Exactly.
Second off, I have seen no such thing. However, you could start to change my mind by linking bare-minimum 3 examples of threads that get derailed (aka the following pages are on unrelated subjects or just shouting) and there aren't any warns or tempbans. In addition, the quality of posts in here is entirely determined by the user base. TL Staff and extended staff make up a minority of posts and any quality deficits can be seen as a shift in how the community wants to discuss things. If you want a narrow result of conversations, then you might as well take the entire site offline or let only TL regular members post. Restricting new registered users would have the same effect over time. I'm for none of these. I see a very diverse group talking about a limitless number of topics in mostly a respectful way. Ignoring or reporting the ones that make you wonder what the poster was thinking is a fairly simple action.
User was warned for this post
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FuDDx
United States4998 Posts
Ohhh I miss the days of Rekrul going on ban streaks.
Its just what happens, when you have a good thing going and the influx of new blood with SC2 it makes me very nostalgic about the old days BW <3
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If he was directing the conversation towards the staff, then it would be a splended Website Feedback topic. And no matter the case, its still a great blog. So by all means
On October 30 2012 09:37 Danglars wrote:First off, Exactly.
step off.
That being said I don't get around the starcraft subforums much but all the rest seems pretty peachy to me.
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I think the moderating standards are okay, but mods should really reduce the number of chances that they give to idiots.
When you read the ABL, you see things like "this is already your fifth ban this year, shape up or ship out" accompanied by a one week ban. If someone is already on their fifth ban this year (especially for the same offense) then why are they even still here? Retards gonna retard, it should be two days --> one week --> one month --> permed imo, with very few exceptions. Considering that you usually get several warnings before even receiving a ban in the first place, if people can't figure out what they're doing wrong by the third ban then chances are they're never gonna learn.
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There's a lot of trash posts on any popular forum. The fact of the matter is that most forums are trying to allow users freedom of speech. Honestly if a post is really that bad, report it and TL will look at it. Maybe you read too many forum posts haha.
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I remember being temp banned or something for posting a "tabloid" article in the general forums. As if there aren't any tabloids in the general forums...
I also got warned for being "way too hasty" for asking if someone was a troll when we posted back and forth for a day or two.
So, kids, post tabloids, and if you ever call someone a troll, it's like you blindly came into a bar just swinging your fists non-stop.
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There are a couple threads here which generally tend to draw idiots. Stay out of them and everything is usually fine
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The OP is asking for our thoughts on the matter, so I'm going to provide my honest thoughts on the matter, uncensored. I apologize in advance if I upset anyone.
Calling for more harsh moderation, greater moderation? My god, what the fuck??? We are already assassinating people for jaywalking!
Look people, every time you have a frustration and you think "God I wish I had the power to prevent these people from saying or typing something that irritates me, I wish I could do something to stop them or punish them"... Take a moment, chill the fuck out, realize you are acting like an intolerant child. Realize that it's just a fucking internet forum where people talk to each other, it's just words on the internet, we aren't building a fucking tower to heaven, we aren't establishing a constitution here. Give people some leeway, and they will afford you some leeway, and we can all get along and enjoy our time here without throwing anyone except the outright psychopaths and nutjobs under the bus.
Can we handle that, children? The days of running to mommy and to the yard duty are over when you become a mature adult. Being a mature adult means sucking it up and dealing with people saying things you don't like or occasionally "digressing," to quote Catcher in the Rye, or being stupid asses. Being an adult means you can deal with these things and these people without throwing a tantrum and expecting and authority figure to solve the problem for you. Maybe you don't like what I'm saying now, and want to lash out at me for it. It's ok, that's just the Nazi Child in your soul, he will be gone when you man the fuck up.
/rant
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On October 30 2012 11:37 jdseemoreglass wrote: The OP is asking for our thoughts on the matter, so I'm going to provide my honest thoughts on the matter, uncensored. I apologize in advance if I upset anyone.
Calling for more harsh moderation, greater moderation? My god, what the fuck??? We are already assassinating people for jaywalking!
Look people, every time you have a frustration and you think "God I wish I had the power to prevent these people from saying or typing something that irritates me, I wish I could do something to stop them or punish them"... Take a moment, chill the fuck out, realize you are acting like an intolerant child. Realize that it's just a fucking internet forum where people talk to each other, it's just words on the internet, we aren't building a fucking tower to heaven, we aren't establishing a constitution here. Give people some leeway, and they will afford you some leeway, and we can all get along and enjoy our time here without throwing anyone except the outright psychopaths and nutjobs under the bus.
Can we handle that, children? The days of running to mommy and to the yard duty are over when you become a mature adult. Being a mature adult means sucking it up and dealing with people saying things you don't like or occasionally "digressing," to quote Catcher in the Rye, or being stupid asses. Being an adult means you can deal with these things and these people without throwing a tantrum and expecting and authority figure to solve the problem for you. Maybe you don't like what I'm saying now, and want to lash out at me for it. It's ok, that's just the Nazi Child in your soul, he will be gone when you man the fuck up.
/rant Swing heil?
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On October 30 2012 11:40 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:37 jdseemoreglass wrote: The OP is asking for our thoughts on the matter, so I'm going to provide my honest thoughts on the matter, uncensored. I apologize in advance if I upset anyone.
Calling for more harsh moderation, greater moderation? My god, what the fuck??? We are already assassinating people for jaywalking!
Look people, every time you have a frustration and you think "God I wish I had the power to prevent these people from saying or typing something that irritates me, I wish I could do something to stop them or punish them"... Take a moment, chill the fuck out, realize you are acting like an intolerant child. Realize that it's just a fucking internet forum where people talk to each other, it's just words on the internet, we aren't building a fucking tower to heaven, we aren't establishing a constitution here. Give people some leeway, and they will afford you some leeway, and we can all get along and enjoy our time here without throwing anyone except the outright psychopaths and nutjobs under the bus.
Can we handle that, children? The days of running to mommy and to the yard duty are over when you become a mature adult. Being a mature adult means sucking it up and dealing with people saying things you don't like or occasionally "digressing," to quote Catcher in the Rye, or being stupid asses. Being an adult means you can deal with these things and these people without throwing a tantrum and expecting and authority figure to solve the problem for you. Maybe you don't like what I'm saying now, and want to lash out at me for it. It's ok, that's just the Nazi Child in your soul, he will be gone when you man the fuck up.
/rant Swing heil? More like Mein Ban-mpf
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Errr... I think i found it...
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Zurich15240 Posts
There, did some moderating on backseat moderators.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
It is hard to moderate a metropolis.
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United States10328 Posts
On October 30 2012 20:20 Kipsate wrote: It is hard to moderate a metropolis.
or a very large building
but seriously, it's interesting that OP thinks TL moderation is too lax when various crybabies elsewhere call it too strict. I guess especially in LR threads, the standards are slightly lower (because LR threads have been historically moderated a bit more loosely, tbh... they were originally more about reactions to play than actual "live reporting," though with the advent of real streams and such, the purpose of the LR thread has changed somehow), and if moderators were to actually ban anything that offended anyone, they'd have to be clicking "ban" like 5 times per minute, and at least 25% of users in each thread would be banned.
damn that was a long run-on.
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Personally I don't think there's a big problem with the derailment of threads. I mean, as long as discussion branches out from the original post, why not, right?
I feel that Mods should only ban trolls, idiots/backseat moderators, and those deliberately being mean to the rest of the TL users. As long as every post is backed up with sufficient and logical content, it should be allowed.
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If anything, there is too much moderation on TL. They ban a lot of content, some subjects seem taboo, your controversial opinions are not wanted on this forum. I feel that moderation should only have to do with technical aspects, like when someone spams, or posts links to malware. Whatever people write on the forums is to be judged by individual members themselves as discussion worthy or not. Use your judgement! One thing a forum needs is a feature that lets you block users you don't like so you can remove "clutter" generated by trolls and flamers.
The idea that the internet is going to be a cool, collected and well educated is super naive.
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On October 30 2012 20:59 50bani wrote: If anything, there is too much moderation on TL. They ban a lot of content, some subjects seem taboo, your controversial opinions are not wanted on this forum. I feel that moderation should only have to do with technical aspects, like when someone spams, or posts links to malware. Whatever people write on the forums is to be judged by individual members themselves as discussion worthy or not. Use your judgement! One thing a forum needs is a feature that lets you block users you don't like so you can remove "clutter" generated by trolls and flamers.
The idea that the internet is going to be a cool, collected and well educated is super naive. A forum can be cool, collected and well educated, provided you get rid of the people that aren't cool collected and well educated.
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What it needs is a way to single out good and constructive posting. Unfortunately that's impossible in a system that rewards longevity and acts of the past. It's simple as that.
TL has grown too big for its current system and there is no way anyone could change anything without upsetting the veterans who hold the most power overall.
I thought about it for a long time, and I have decided it's not even worth my time trying to propose anything given that Website Feedback is barely used for anything anyway.
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That's simply not true. Any fool can see website feedback is there for when I want to complain about kwark.
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On October 30 2012 11:37 jdseemoreglass wrote: The OP is asking for our thoughts on the matter, so I'm going to provide my honest thoughts on the matter, uncensored. I apologize in advance if I upset anyone.
Calling for more harsh moderation, greater moderation? My god, what the fuck??? We are already assassinating people for jaywalking!
Look people, every time you have a frustration and you think "God I wish I had the power to prevent these people from saying or typing something that irritates me, I wish I could do something to stop them or punish them"... Take a moment, chill the fuck out, realize you are acting like an intolerant child. Realize that it's just a fucking internet forum where people talk to each other, it's just words on the internet, we aren't building a fucking tower to heaven, we aren't establishing a constitution here. Give people some leeway, and they will afford you some leeway, and we can all get along and enjoy our time here without throwing anyone except the outright psychopaths and nutjobs under the bus.
Can we handle that, children? The days of running to mommy and to the yard duty are over when you become a mature adult. Being a mature adult means sucking it up and dealing with people saying things you don't like or occasionally "digressing," to quote Catcher in the Rye, or being stupid asses. Being an adult means you can deal with these things and these people without throwing a tantrum and expecting and authority figure to solve the problem for you. Maybe you don't like what I'm saying now, and want to lash out at me for it. It's ok, that's just the Nazi Child in your soul, he will be gone when you man the fuck up.
/rant
95% of posters can't handle terrible posters. Not getting upset and not retaliating is just the bare minimum. Can you really ignore them and continue with the lines of discussions that were actually going somewhere? And even if YOU can there's always going to be some posters who would have had something intelligent to say had they not wasted their time correcting someone who is just blatantly wrong (possibly on purpose).
And of course there's the issue of having to read 20 pages of discussion 80% of which is basically useless, instead of having 3 or 4 pages of great content. Even if you're a Buddha and never get upset or derailed by stupidity they are still wasting your time.
edit: or you don't read the 20 pages and post something that has already been said. Now you became part of the problem too.
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TL should bring Rekrul back
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On October 31 2012 08:10 Shana wrote: TL should bring Rekrul back Be careful what you wish for
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On October 31 2012 08:12 Shady Sands wrote:Be careful what you wish for
Whats so bad about him? Havent been around for long.
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On October 31 2012 09:03 Azera wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 08:12 Shady Sands wrote:On October 31 2012 08:10 Shana wrote: TL should bring Rekrul back Be careful what you wish for Whats so bad about him? Havent been around for long. I always thought that the reason the Soviet purges were so bad was because all the guys calling the shots were shitfaced. Then Rek's drunk banning sprees started to make more sense
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So who are the Kulaks here?
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This is nuts. Look up some older threads. Find some in 2009, and then look at some in 2006. TL's posting standards are way more strict now than they've ever been. For better or worse, this is a fact. There are mod notes on every freaking thread now. I was a longtime lurker but I joined in '09, and what you can get away with back then is much different than even now. Because you, know, SC2, more ad revenue, a profitable professional team, and the need to appear to be a mature and refined community to protect the moniez/scene/esports. It makes sense to me. It's more than just a community now.
I don't use reddit, so I don't know what it means to be more "redditish," but since many TLers use both websites, it's hard to expect the posting would be too different for these types of users.
The mods are beyond proactive, the bad apples are always found out, or usually undo their own existence. The rest of our petty squabbles are not ban-worthy. Derailments are moderated if they persist for too long (however someone decides what "too" long is).
I always considered myself not the largest fan of moderation on TL, but your blog isn't even a critique with substance, examples, or even anecdotes. It's just a few lines of whining. With a vague complaint like this, you should write a better blog for better feedback.
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On October 31 2012 16:25 MountainDewJunkie wrote: This is nuts. Look up some older threads. Find some in 2009, and then look at some in 2006. TL's posting standards are way more strict now than they've ever been. For better or worse, this is a fact. There are mod notes on every freaking thread now. I was a longtime lurker but I joined in '09, and what you can get away with back then is much different than even now. Because you, know, SC2, more ad revenue, a profitable professional team, and the need to appear to be a mature and refined community to protect the moniez/scene/esports. It makes sense to me. It's more than just a community now.
I don't use reddit, so I don't know what it means to be more "redditish," but since many TLers use both websites, it's hard to expect the posting would be too different for these types of users.
The mods are beyond proactive, the bad apples are always found out, or usually undo their own existence. The rest of our petty squabbles are not ban-worthy. Derailments are moderated if they persist for too long (however someone decides what "too" long is).
I always considered myself not the largest fan of moderation on TL, but your blog isn't even a critique with substance, examples, or even anecdotes. It's just a few lines of whining. With a vague complaint like this, you should write a better blog for better feedback.
This. TL has basically "industrialized" its user base... building an eSports brand off it.
Kulaks are the users which detract from the brand, bluntly speaking.
The thing is, I'm fine with this, because the central lesson of the internet is that its growth, like any new technology, is a funnel--at the beginning, the greenfields are so numerous everyone can be a freeloader, but as the tech matures, people have to pay up. If our price for the right to interact on a forum with a bunch of like-minded, decent folks is to be heavily moderated, then so be it--it's better than being forced to pay money.
And before you think people don't pay money for this privilege, think again: I used to shell out cash to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs just so I could go to monthly meetings and talk foreign policy with other people. I quit after I realized TL and other online communities could offer just as much quality in terms of an exchange of ideas. That's value that TL has provided me which I don't mind paying a price in terms of moderation for.
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I kinda preferred it when it was just broodwar
Still, there are little sanctuaries you can hang out in, like some IRC channels, some threads (TLADT) and bits of the blog section/TL community
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Thanks for the feedback guys, definitely should have linked some examples of threads that get get derailed and filled with garbage if I wanted better feedback and a better discussion, I knew my OP was lacking hence putting it in blogs, if I want to take this further I'll make an actual thread in future with examples and what I see as possible solutions.
This was kind-of just a feeling out of people's opinions and I got some great perspectives from all of you so thanks for being honest and responding.
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On October 30 2012 07:58 CecilSunkure wrote:I think it's 2 years later or so.
I think this fine work of Art by CecilSunkure fits the situation pretty well...
I guess it is just normal that we see an in explosion in idiocy. Much more TLers since SC2=more idiots
Edit: Sorry,posted in the wrong thread, of course it happened in a post regarding idiocy
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