Journalism is among the top ten careers that attract psychopaths, according to the book The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success. Per Wikipedia, psychopathy is "a personality disorder that has been variously characterized by shallow emotions (including reduced fear, a lack of empathy, and stress tolerance), coldheartedness, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, impulsivity, criminality, antisocial behavior, a lack of remorse, and a parasitic lifestyle".
And that's a good thing. Journalism is less about writing and more about the journalist's ability to get access to information that other people cannot, which in a lot of ways, requires some of the characteristics of psychopathy. Anybody can take pieces of information and turn it into an easily-consumed article; few know where and how to find that information, for it requires an amalgamation of intelligence, charisma, and fearlessness, among other traits.
I bring this up because journalism has been a hot topic of discussion within the e-sports community lately, particularly involving GameSpot's Rod "Slasher" Breslau and team Evil Geniuses. (No, I'm not accusing Breslau of being a psychopath. Although...) Breslau has broken many a story, usually involving a player moving from one team to another. No one would say that Breslau has done his job unprofessionally or provided low-quality work.
On Inside the Game recently, Alex Garfield, the CEO of Evil Geniuses, took issue with Breslau's breaking of various news items because, to paraphrase his argument, it takes away from the team's ability to capitalize on the surprise and excitement, which hurts the team, which then hurts e-sports as a whole. Garfield's team employs artists full-time to create web pages and videos to draw in eyeballs, which then are applied to the logos of their sponsors, in what amounts to a cyclical ecosystem.
Alfred Harmsworth, a British press magnate in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, once said, "News is something someone wants suppressed. Everything else is just advertising."
When you watch the debate between Garfield and Breslau, you must keep in mind Garfield's bias. Of course the CEO of a team wants to keep as much information secret to maximize his profits -- that's his job! Garfield cannot expect Breslau to operate with the same motivations, however. A journalist should not, cannot, be subject to the whim's of a company's bottom line. As someone who actively labels himself a journalist, Breslau should have zero interest in the maximization of EG's page views, or advertising revenue. He should not care about hype or, to use their term, "anti-hype". He should not care about the progression or regression of e-sports, even.
As someone who has been participating in sports media for going on five years (not as a traditional journalist, mind you), it is funny to see this become an issue after having witnessed everything that passes as standard around the baseball industry. There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
Breslau leaking "Snute to Team Liquid" is no different than your typical baseball media report. Perhaps the best baseball example involves starting pitcher Cliff Lee. The Philadelphia Phillies acquired him via trade with the Cleveland Indians on July 29, 2009. On December 16, the Phillies traded him to the Seattle Mariners, and the Mariners then traded him to the Texas Rangers on July 9, 2010. Lee became a free agent after the season ended in October.
Because of Lee's stature as one of the elite starting pitchers, few teams were realistically expected to compete for his services as a free agent due to his ability to demand a high salary. Going into December 2010, the only two teams seriously linked to Lee were the Rangers, the team Lee helped lead into the World Series, and the rich New York Yankees. The Phillies were not in the equation at all.
However, in the days leading up to December 15, baseball journalist Jon Heyman reported that a "mystery team" was in on Lee -- a team other than the Rangers and Yankees. That mystery team turned out to be the Phillies, led by general manager Ruben Amaro. This article from Philadelphia Magazine details how stealthily the Phillies were working to get Lee:
Amaro had assembled the smallest possible circle of advisors for pursuing Lee. Gillick, Proefrock and Phillies president David Montgomery. That was it. No one else, not even manager Charlie Manuel, could know what was brewing.
And yet, when the Phillies finally signed Lee on the 15th, it wasn't the Phillies who broke the news; it was journalist Jon Heyman, then with Sports Illustrated. Heyman's reporting did nothing to reduce the hype around the signing; Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site. In fact, it was never an issue.
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret. That's not to say there are no issues, but there's a reason why there is a strong correlation between a country's freedom of the press, and the overall health of that country (by many measures). It's the same within industries, even as small as e-sports. The more access the press has, the better the industry is overall.
Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right. Breslau's effort to find that information and his ability to find and cultivate sources of that information is to be commended, not criticized and ridiculed.
About the author: Bill Baer is a sportswriter for ESPN ( link | link) and an author (link). You can follow him on Twitter, @CrashburnAlley.
I think part of the problem with this is that while you're comparing actions, you're not comparing contexts. The dynamic between journalist and company should always be a struggle of sorts, but this is a nascent industry and my guess is right now the power is tipped much more in favor of company/team than reporter. Real sports reporters, or at least their media companies, have a lot more power in the exchange than Slasher does.
I see it more like baseball (or really any sport) was 50 years ago. Wasn't Bear Bryant able to keep the wishbone a secret from April until September simply because of the power he had over reporters? Maybe the current situation isn't that skewed, but I think it's closer to that than it is to being even. While the internet is "open," the culture of those involved with ESPORTS is very much a backdoor thing with lots of whispering and rumors being leaked, and the vast majority of fans don't have access to that stuff.
I don't think there's really a right answer as they are conflicting parties. For Slasher, he gained some integrity by standing his ground, but he also lost a lot of opportunities by not using it in exchange for something more important and maintaining the connection. For Alex, his biggest mistake was just announcing it publicly. If you quietly blacklist Slasher, then most people would just assume Slasher is bad at getting content. "No comment" would've saved them this mess.
Eventually the system will modernize and teams like EG will have to learn how to control a message without the media knowing it, but for the time being I think EG would've been fine with outright blacklisting as long as they hadn't been public about it. Whether this remains true after the incident is up for question.
EDIT: And by saying it's nascent, I don't mean to let them off the hook by saying "it's because no one knows better yet." I mean because it's so new, people care(d) drastically more about the teams than they did about the journalism so the power was skewed.
I don't even understand why people are discussing it. It's hilarious how big headed Alex Garfield is. Slasher shouldn't have even been on that show, he didn't do anything wrong. Alex Garfield needs to learn not to be an idiot.
Thx Bill for your thoughts on the matter and you do get it.
Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right. Breslau's effort to find that information and his ability to find and cultivate sources of that information is to be commended, not criticized and ridiculed.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: I think part of the problem with this is that while you're comparing actions, you're not comparing contexts. The dynamic between journalist and company should always be a struggle of sorts, but this is a nascent industry and my guess is right now the power is tipped much more in favor of company/team than reporter. Real sports reporters, or at least their media companies, have a lot more power in the exchange than Slasher does.
I disagree with you here. A difference of industries don't imply in a difference of journalism. Journalism should abide by the same principles no matter the context. Journalism is way bigger and more important than esports, it's the CEOs and teams that need to adapt, hire publicists and get their shit together, not the opposite.
There is a direct parallel here, as is pointed out, it's not two seperate worlds as Garfield would love to have people believe.
In, let's say, Football (NOTE: SOCCER), sure a team wouldn't care about reduced "hype" and traffic on their own sites for their own signing but if a journalist reports that X team is looking to sign Y player, or Z player's contract runs out soon and they haven't agreed new terms yet then that is something teams DO want to avoid.
If it's public knowledge Y player is available then maybe a bigger club than club X are going to come in and make a bid meaning club X don't get their player, or maybe the team owning player Z have to sell him just to stop him walking away for free or give him an even better contract than they would like.
The point is these things get made public via leaks, and while they don't "damage" a team as they don't get to make as much money through page views they do damage a team by making them potentially pay more money to get/keep hold of a player or meaning that a player doesn't join their team and instead joins another. So, in the end, both eSports teams and sports teams can be "hurt" by leaks and yet they still happen all the fucking time, will continue to happen and the only reason they happen is because people inside the organisation or part of the deal leak it, which, I might add includes the player.
"Oh it didn't come from the team it came from the player, he said to another team's manager 'Oh, I'm sorry but I'm joining (example) EG' " isn't a valid argument as then it's the player who has leaked that info, YOUR player. He can quite easily say "Sorry, I'm joining another team" but if they decide to tell other team managers which one that is then it's THEIR fault.
Thanks for the professional opinion, Bill. I pretty much had the same thing in my head but couldn't be bothered to participate in the drama on the forums. Your piece sums it all up.
You cannot compare the two. While I agree with the sentiment of keeping journalism pure and its his Job. Comparing MLB and little old Esports is like comparing the titanic to my toy boat. Sure they both float (well kinda) and they both are boats, but a small wave will wreck my toy boat and the titanic will be fine.
Alex's point, as I saw it, was that teams can't rely on ticket sales and broadcast revenue to make money. They rely on page views, and sponsors who get those page views. The biggest page view bursts come from surprise announcements and pages like the announcement page for Jaedong. Having that ruined because Slasher found a name on a roster for IPTL or something of the such is not the fault of the team. While I agree teams should focus on keeping it a secrete sometimes it slips. And in major sports where millions of people care and millions of dollars swap hands. A leak and 100k less page views isn't that big of deal. To a small team like Karont3, or even to any team at all Its a HUGE deal.
Now What Alex wanted was instead of the "lazy" Journalism that Slasher has been providing. Which lets be honest his announcement articles are just titles and than 3 sentences repeating the title. He want's and has offered a special insiders view for Slasher. An interview with the player that just got signed and teammates to get reactions. Something, that as an ESPN journalist you should know is the bread and butter of sports journalism.
I am by no means defending EG or anything of the sort. It just has to be seen that this is not main stream sports, and any comparison is laughable. Slasher needs to see that what he does is greatly hurting teams and fans. Because maybe with out a spoiler Karont3 or TL gets 100k more page views and their sponsors decide to invest more money and than more players are signed. Instead Slasher posts a 5 sentence article and its all for nothing.
About the Author : Shaffty is a 20 year old College student studying Journalism and is a fan of SI.com
"A journalist should not, cannot, be subject to the whim's of a company's bottom line. As someone who actively labels himself a journalist, Breslau should have zero interest in the maximization of EG's page views, or advertising revenue. He should not care about hype or, to use their term, "anti-hype". He should not care about the progression or regression of e-sports, even."
Former NHL/college sports journalist here, now working in PR (look at that switch), so I know about both worlds. Frankly, I commend the reporting Slasher has done on recent stories.
Nobody is breaking news like he is and this is exactly the type of journalism fans of eSports should want. Teams will always want to control their message, and that's OK in theory, but it's up to enterprising reporters to keep the best stories in sports from breaking as an advertising campaign.
When the Washington Capitals signed Alexander Ovechkin to a 13 year mega-deal, it wasn't the Capitals who broke the story first. The Washington Post and other outlets had it first, but the Capitals confirmed it. Did it kill the excitement it created for hockey fans, particularly those in Washington? Absolutely not.
It benefited the Caps as fans were tuned into the contract negotiations and constantly visited the Capitals website, and other outlets, to get as much information as possible. It didn't kill jersey sales or ticket sales. It just sent the hype through the roof even more.
One way of letting eSports grow is the expanding way we cover eSports. It shouldn't just be the teams breaking big stories about tournaments, players and events that sites go and re-blog because the team finally released the information. Journalists should be out there seeking the stories, angles and writing enterprise pieces that bring the scene to life.
Great post Bill, thanks for taking the time to lay your thoughts out. As a budding journalist/reporter I'm always extremely interested in journalism discussion and I've tried to stay up to date in any video game related ones, such as the big issue that arose around video game journalists last year, and of course this recent kerfuffle. I'll say that I am quite torn on where I fall on this issue, on one hand I can understand how some may see eSports as a small industry and one that cannot withstand the rigors of 'hard-hitting' journalism and might benefit from a bit of handholding between parties. But on the other hand, there is definitely a line that you can't cross as a journalist or a reporter and one could see a kind of downward spiral of sorts, where journalists are simply being used as tools while under the guise of being a reporter for the people.
I really don't know though, so I will try to avoid making any controversial statements since I am still debating this internally. Thanks again for writing your thoughts down, though.
Fundamentally, I agree with Bill. However, I think it is also important to recognize that accessing and releasing information is a rudimentary element of journalism; due to the youth and consumer habits within the esports industry, journalism is systemically limited to this level.
On January 17 2013 02:24 Crashburn wrote: Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right. Breslau's effort to find that information and his ability to find and cultivate sources of that information is to be commended, not criticized and ridiculed.
for real though, to hell with alex garfield. alex garfield has NO credibility in esports. EG is not even a pro-gaming team as much as an advertising agency and alex has admitted as much. whats good for EG is not always whats good for esports.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: I think part of the problem with this is that while you're comparing actions, you're not comparing contexts. The dynamic between journalist and company should always be a struggle of sorts, but this is a nascent industry and my guess is right now the power is tipped much more in favor of company/team than reporter. Real sports reporters, or at least their media companies, have a lot more power in the exchange than Slasher does.
I see it more like baseball (or really any sport) was 50 years ago. Wasn't Bear Bryant able to keep the wishbone a secret from April until September simply because of the power he had over reporters? Maybe the current situation isn't that skewed, but I think it's closer to that than it is to being even. While the internet is "open," the culture of those involved with ESPORTS is very much a backdoor thing with lots of whispering and rumors being leaked, and the vast majority of fans don't have access to that stuff.
I don't think there's really a right answer as they are conflicting parties. For Slasher, he gained some integrity by standing his ground, but he also lost a lot of opportunities by not using it in exchange for something more important and maintaining the connection. For Alex, his biggest mistake was just announcing it publicly. If you quietly blacklist Slasher, then most people would just assume Slasher is bad at getting content. "No comment" would've saved them this mess.
Eventually the system will modernize and teams like EG will have to learn how to control a message without the media knowing it, but for the time being I think EG would've been fine with outright blacklisting as long as they hadn't been public about it. Whether this remains true after the incident is up for question.
EDIT: And by saying it's nascent, I don't mean to let them off the hook by saying "it's because no one knows better yet." I mean because it's so new, people care(d) drastically more about the teams than they did about the journalism so the power was skewed.
Completely agree with this assessment. At the end of the day, Slasher did nothing wrong journalistically, but I don't think that was ever in dispute. What he did do was jeopardize his information stream within e-sports, and for what? So he could spread the news of a team transfer a few days prior to its official announcement. Who really cares about knowing that two days in advance? Are we that shallow as a community that it actually matters? And though I agree with Baer that journalism isn't all about writing prowess, worthwhile communication and reportage should have some bearing. Slasher's posts read like press releases, he just happens to do it under the moniker of Gamespot and as a journalist (let's not get into the journalistic issues of the gaming industry, suffice to say Slasher is just building on what everyone else has done). He got some page views for Gamespot, he gets paid, and ultimately he's ready to be the fiddle for a more cohesive information strategy, a la TB. That's not the journalism this scene needs.
Alex's point, as I saw it, was that teams can't rely on ticket sales and broadcast revenue to make money. They rely on page views, and sponsors who get those page views. The biggest page view bursts come from surprise announcements and pages like the announcement page for Jaedong. Having that ruined because Slasher found a name on a roster for IPTL or something of the such is not the fault of the team. While I agree teams should focus on keeping it a secrete sometimes it slips. And in major sports where millions of people care and millions of dollars swap hands. A leak and 100k less page views isn't that big of deal. To a small team like Karont3, or even to any team at all Its a HUGE deal.
Then they shouldn't be basing their revenue stream on shocking people with big news in a small field where everyone knows everything that's happening.
What struck me about what Alex Garfield was saying the responsibility of journalists in esports to essentially be 3rd party free PR agents for the teams. Can't remember the last time I read a foreigner interview (love the translated PL stuff). What can teams really offer to journalists in exchange for not reporting on topical, very interesting news?
I think the public appeal was trying to draw energy from the old refrain of ESPORTS. Remember the time when people were fanatically drawn to the cause of advancing ESPORTS(TM)? I think the loss of energy made the choice to appeal to that motive ultimately very ineffective (as seen by Reddit's response).
If that information was so crucial, Slasher shouldn't have been able to get his hands on it. End of story. If Slasher knew, others did too. That's a mistake. EG/Garfield fucked up and are trying to pass the buck onto slasher. I find it disgustingly unprofessional that Alex would go out publicly (on a show full of people who are in his back pocket) and straight up ATTACK Slasher like that. A bit too convenient that the first episode of iTG in 2 months was made just to attack Slasher and to make him look like the bad guy. I am so thankful this didn't work and our community has its wits about it.
This definitely seems to be the right take on this subject. Alex can bitch all he want about Slasher messing up his announcements but at the end of the day Slasher is only doing his job. I'm sure even Alex would agree that a lack of journalism would only be detrimental to esports. If Alex, or any organisation, wants to keep something secret so they can have a big announcement its their job to keep it a secret not the journalist's.
Alex's point, as I saw it, was that teams can't rely on ticket sales and broadcast revenue to make money. They rely on page views, and sponsors who get those page views. The biggest page view bursts come from surprise announcements and pages like the announcement page for Jaedong. Having that ruined because Slasher found a name on a roster for IPTL or something of the such is not the fault of the team. While I agree teams should focus on keeping it a secrete sometimes it slips. And in major sports where millions of people care and millions of dollars swap hands. A leak and 100k less page views isn't that big of deal. To a small team like Karont3, or even to any team at all Its a HUGE deal.
Then they shouldn't be basing their revenue stream on shocking people with big news in a small field where everyone knows everything that's happening.
What should they rely on? Selling tickets to there stadium?
A good write up. But I understans Garfield point of view. e-Sport is extremely small compared to "real" sport and so on. Most of the managers, journalists, players know eachother on a completely different level than other brands. Sure Rod didnt do anything wrong, I would rather say he did an excellent jobb gathering his information. And sure, all Garfield want is the hype, more viewers, more recognition, more exposure to his sponsors, more growth of e-sport. But if we want to consider e-sport a real thing and not some kind of "friendclub" we need to be professional. Journalists doing what they are supposed to etc.
And again, a good read. I hope Slasher speak up for himself on LO3 later today.
alex garfield is not good for esports. alex garfield is only good for himself and eg. eg has even bought off teamliquid if it isnt already glaringly obvous
the fact that Garfield threatened to have Slasher black balled by other esports teams because of this is shocking. it shows how small time and small minded and immature this industry still is. his treatment of slasher last night was appalling and was akin to a child throwing their toys out of the pram.
garfield threatening to try and form a media cartel of who they will and wont talk to is something that needs to have the glare of the spotlight put on it. small time cheap behavior from one of the industries biggest names
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: I think part of the problem with this is that while you're comparing actions, you're not comparing contexts. The dynamic between journalist and company should always be a struggle of sorts, but this is a nascent industry and my guess is right now the power is tipped much more in favor of company/team than reporter. Real sports reporters, or at least their media companies, have a lot more power in the exchange than Slasher does.
I disagree with you here. A difference of industries don't imply in a difference of journalism. Journalism should abide by the same principles no matter the context. Journalism is way bigger and more important than esports, it's the CEOs and teams that need to adapt, hire publicists and get their shit together, not the opposite.
Journalism has a lot of push and pull to it, and if you're not in the position of power, you have to be able to compromise to get what you want in the future. That's just the nature of it. :/
It's not the difference in industries per se. It's the differences in clout, which you need to leverage in order to be a journalist. The job isn't just reporting news, it's also getting access to it.
Great blog! There's a lot of naivety going in esports and this blog makes great points. Alex embarrassed himself and EG last night with his comments. Stand by and support slasher 100%. Press should not be reduced to be EG puppets like Alex wants them to. It's not slasher's job to make sure EG maximizes its page views or sponsor exposure. He breaks news the people want to hear and I for one thank him for that.
Alex goes on and on about slasher not helping anyone, but himself, but he's wrong because he does help the people. People want the news fast and now and he provides that service. To discount that value is pretty naive on Alex's part. Alex is the one being selfish, not slasher.
On January 17 2013 02:24 Crashburn wrote:A journalist should not, cannot, be subject to the whim's of a company's bottom line. As someone who actively labels himself a journalist, Breslau should have zero interest in the maximization of EG's page views, or advertising revenue.
I agree with most of what you said, but these statements especially.
I was displeased with the conversation on yesterday's ITG because Alex's argument was his anger that Gamespot is taking page views away from EG and the way he went about showing it felt like less of an argument on the conceptual goals of enthusiast journalism and much more of a personal attack against Slasher for having an effect on EG's bottom line.
Also can we all see that this isn't about EG and their agenda. Alex even said that "because EG and TB have the name recognition they wern't affected as much as small teams like Karont3 and the likes."
I hate how everyone is taking this as a chance to bash EG and Alex. They were all there trying to better everything not just EG's agenda
On January 17 2013 04:02 Canucklehead wrote: Great blog! There's a lot of naivety going in esports and this blog makes great points. Alex embarrassed himself and EG last night with his comments. Stand by and support slasher 100%. Press should not be reduced to be EG puppets like Alex wants them to. It's not slasher's job to make sure EG maximizes its page views or sponsor exposure. He breaks news the people want to hear and I for one thank him for that.
Alex goes on and on about slasher not helping anyone, but himself, but he's wrong because he does help the people. People want the news fast and now and he provides that service. To discount that value is pretty naive on Alex's part. Alex is the one being selfish, not slasher.
Out of curiosity, what news is Slasher providing that's actually indispensable or revealing? When you say 'he does help the people,' what is something he's shared that wouldn't have been revealed otherwise?
I really don't care that Slasher leaks stuff, but he's biting the hand that feeds him. Let's trot out Alex's argument a bit: you hurt e-sports revenue of the top team, sponsors aren't getting the bang for their buck, they pull out, teams suffer, e-sports crumbles, and Slasher no longer has a scene to report on. There's a lot of trust in journalism and relationships matter. Will be interested to see where it goes...
I agree with most of what you said, but these statements especially.
I was displeased with the conversation on yesterday's ITG because Alex's argument was his anger that Gamespot is taking page views away from EG and the way he went about showing it felt like less of an argument on the conceptual goals of enthusiast journalism and much more of a personal attack against Slasher for having an effect on EG's bottom line.
Absolutely agree. My mouth was agape listening to the personal attacks coming out of Garfield. Before last night, I had always considered him a very professional team owner. His comments had a huge affect on my opinion of not only him as a person but the organization as a whole, not to mention their overall non-productivity. Seems like he dragged Slasher into the EG fire pit and put him on blast for doing something that hurt EG's pockets.
On January 17 2013 02:24 Crashburn wrote:A journalist should not, cannot, be subject to the whim's of a company's bottom line. As someone who actively labels himself a journalist, Breslau should have zero interest in the maximization of EG's page views, or advertising revenue.
I agree with most of what you said, but these statements especially.
I was displeased with the conversation on yesterday's ITG because Alex's argument was his anger that Gamespot is taking page views away from EG and the way he went about showing it felt like less of an argument on the conceptual goals of enthusiast journalism and much more of a personal attack against Slasher for having an effect on EG's bottom line.
His argument may not be great, but I can understand why he is pissed. Alex works hard on every announcement and deal he makes, so it is only natural that he is upset when it gets leaked. I don't think he should have confronted Breslau on ITG, but they should have a discussion. Like it or not, the Esports community is very small and Slasher has a lot of friends on every team. If the team members and owners have to choose between their friendship with Slasher and their hard fought advertising revenue, it will be no fun for everyone involved. They likely need to have a mature discussion about balancing the two.
This point about 'e-sports is small so breaking news will hurt it'. How do you know when that is no longer the case? How do you measure the size of e-sports?
Should Slasher wait for the team owners to say 'its ok now, you can do your job' ?
On January 17 2013 04:02 Canucklehead wrote: Great blog! There's a lot of naivety going in esports and this blog makes great points. Alex embarrassed himself and EG last night with his comments. Stand by and support slasher 100%. Press should not be reduced to be EG puppets like Alex wants them to. It's not slasher's job to make sure EG maximizes its page views or sponsor exposure. He breaks news the people want to hear and I for one thank him for that.
Alex goes on and on about slasher not helping anyone, but himself, but he's wrong because he does help the people. People want the news fast and now and he provides that service. To discount that value is pretty naive on Alex's part. Alex is the one being selfish, not slasher.
Out of curiosity, what news is Slasher providing that's actually indispensable or revealing? When you say 'he does help the people,' what is something he's shared that wouldn't have been revealed otherwise? .
All his leaks about player signings. You're another one of the people that just doesn't get it. It has ZERO relevance that the news would be public later. The value in the news is the timing on it and people getting to hear that news early. It's why there are tons of rumours about trades/signings in sports all the time. People DO NOT want to wait to hear about every trade and signing only when the teams officially announce them. To not be able to differentiate between the timing of news is why I say a lot of people in esports are naive. They keep saying over and over again, the news will be public anyways, so it has no value and people should just wait. Breaking news early has a ton of value for people. Always has always will.
In canada they do whole day specials on NHL trade deadline day where all they do is speculate on trades being made and trying to break them first for the people to hear. If people did not want to hear that and only wanted to wait for team's official press releases about the trades they made, then they would not watch. However, the people see huge value in hearing the news first, so stations like TSN get record ratings for these shows!
TRADECENTRE '12 SETS RATINGS RECORDS FOR TSN, TSN.CA
Monday wasn't a blockbuster day for NHL trades, but it certainly was a blockbuster day for TSN, as hockey fans once again turned to Canada's Sports Leader in record numbers to experience the country's most comprehensive coverage of NHL Trade Deadline Day with the multiplatform event, TRADECENTRE '12.
"With records set on all of our industry-leading platforms yesterday for TRADECENTRE '12, it is extremely humbling to know that Canadians have once again overwhelmingly chosen TSN as their #1 destination for breaking news and analysis on NHL Trade Deadline Day," said Stewart Johnston, President, TSN. "It's clear that fans can't get enough of the country's favourite pastime and that they consistently turn to TSN when it matters the most."
On January 17 2013 04:02 Canucklehead wrote: Great blog! There's a lot of naivety going in esports and this blog makes great points. Alex embarrassed himself and EG last night with his comments. Stand by and support slasher 100%. Press should not be reduced to be EG puppets like Alex wants them to. It's not slasher's job to make sure EG maximizes its page views or sponsor exposure. He breaks news the people want to hear and I for one thank him for that.
Alex goes on and on about slasher not helping anyone, but himself, but he's wrong because he does help the people. People want the news fast and now and he provides that service. To discount that value is pretty naive on Alex's part. Alex is the one being selfish, not slasher.
Out of curiosity, what news is Slasher providing that's actually indispensable or revealing? When you say 'he does help the people,' what is something he's shared that wouldn't have been revealed otherwise? .
All his leaks about player signings. You're another one of the people that just doesn't get it. It has ZERO relevance that the news would be public later. The value in the news is the timing on it and people getting to hear that news early. It's why there are tons of rumours about trades/signings in sports all the time. People DO NOT want to wait to hear about every trade and signing only when the teams officially announce them. To not be able to differentiate between the timing of news is why I say a lot of people in esports are naive. They keep saying over and over again, the news will be public anyways, so it has no value and people should just wait. Breaking news early has a ton of value for people.
That's what I'm curious about. To me the fact value of X player signs with Y team isn't that interesting or worthwhile in and of itself. It is information that can be reported, but you can also report that you're wearing blue socks and that in three days you'll be driving fifteen minutes to a 7-11. So what?
I have no qualms with what Slasher did from a journalistic perspective. I'm an editor for a trade magazine--I understand the journalistic rights that a reporter has. But what value does Slasher gain, as a journalist, alienating all potential sources for future news? We have few journalists in positions like his that can't shed interesting light and insights into issues. Slasher doesn't do that. He's a news ticker.
On January 17 2013 04:02 Canucklehead wrote: Great blog! There's a lot of naivety going in esports and this blog makes great points. Alex embarrassed himself and EG last night with his comments. Stand by and support slasher 100%. Press should not be reduced to be EG puppets like Alex wants them to. It's not slasher's job to make sure EG maximizes its page views or sponsor exposure. He breaks news the people want to hear and I for one thank him for that.
Alex goes on and on about slasher not helping anyone, but himself, but he's wrong because he does help the people. People want the news fast and now and he provides that service. To discount that value is pretty naive on Alex's part. Alex is the one being selfish, not slasher.
Out of curiosity, what news is Slasher providing that's actually indispensable or revealing? When you say 'he does help the people,' what is something he's shared that wouldn't have been revealed otherwise? .
All his leaks about player signings. You're another one of the people that just doesn't get it. It has ZERO relevance that the news would be public later. The value in the news is the timing on it and people getting to hear that news early. It's why there are tons of rumours about trades/signings in sports all the time. People DO NOT want to wait to hear about every trade and signing only when the teams officially announce them. To not be able to differentiate between the timing of news is why I say a lot of people in esports are naive. They keep saying over and over again, the news will be public anyways, so it has no value and people should just wait. Breaking news early has a ton of value for people.
That's what I'm curious about. To me the fact value of X player signs with Y team isn't that interesting or worthwhile in and of itself. It is information that can be reported, but you can also report that you're wearing blue socks and that in three days you'll be driving fifteen minutes to a 7-11. So what?
That's where you're wrong. Jaedong to EG is the main point and interesting part of the news. The fluff video later is just mainly for EG's benefit and is just used to dress up the main news, which was Jaedong to EG. Your second point is a strawman. Why make hype videos for Jaedong to EG? Why not make videos about incontrol putting on his socks and what colour he's going to wear today?
I would love to know how much traffic the EG site had pre-Snute announcement because of Slasher's report. I'd think that they'd see more traffic and more interest as people are waiting for it to be officially confirmed.
Bill, Thank you for your professional insight, it was a great read.
This thread contains a lot of great discussion but one thing I heavily agree with is the comparison between e-sports and regular sports for journalism holds little value. In my opinion (humble opinion as a fan and observer), the functional economies are fundamentally different. In some way, e-sports is mainly driven by hype, page-views, likes, followers, etc. which are in turn converted into revenue for these teams. It is understandable to be deeply distraught when the same news bits that generate numbers, and in turn money, are 'released' by another source, but this seems to be the raw nature of journalism.
It always hurts to lose money, especially when immense strategies are employed to garner and nourish every little bit of news to maximize return, but come on... as an 'intelligent', internet community that wants to constantly be in the know, Slasher is taking unnecessary heat being a messenger.
but it isnt EG leaking that jaedong is joinging, it isnt TL leaking that snute is joining. its 100% out of their control.
EG had to submit a line up to IPL, IPL told slasher that JD was in their line up.
TL was in a biding war for snute, when other teams pulled out they knew who was left and so knew that snute was going to TL.
Is it just "too bad"? TL had to rush their announcment and do it in lower quality than they had hoped becauise of slasher, slasher robbed the community of a lot of enjoyment.
I think that yes slasher is in the right, but he is burning bridges, EG players wont give him interviews, and im assuming other teams wont, or in the future wont. i personally wont be supporting him by watching his interviews, watching LO3 or any gamespot related content.
So yes, slasher is right, but even so, he should reconsider what he is doing as it well inevitably hurt him.
So yes, slasher is right, but even so, he should reconsider what he is doing as it well inevitably hurt him.
The fundamental issue I have with this is that yes, it will hurt slasher in the end due to the boycotts and burning of bridges, but that is not what should be celebrated, but people like you are. Slasher has done nothing wrong, nor has been reporting facts wrong. He's just doing his job. People should be outraged that teams want to control slasher on when he should be able to announce things he finds out from 3rd parties and now they seek to punish him for it. To counteract people like you, I will be boycotting all of EG's sponsors due to Alex's actions.
On January 17 2013 03:40 The_Stampede wrote: I don't even understand why people are discussing it. It's hilarious how big headed Alex Garfield is. Slasher shouldn't have even been on that show, he didn't do anything wrong. Alex Garfield needs to learn not to be an idiot.
User was temp banned for this post.
I agree with this person, however it's unfortunate he presented the information in the way he did to receive a ban.I am 100% on the way slasher went and presented the information that he did. If he hadn't, who's to say that someone else wouldn't? The fault lies with Alex Garfield and his inability to retain information and leak little bits of info properly. A great example of this would be how TB handled his info on his recent pick ups with slasher. If TB, the manager of a middle end team, can handle it in a proper manner, why can't the CEO of the largest RTS Esports team do the same? All that would be needed would be to limit the amount of people that a secret is relegated to along with telling a specific league that a player will be joining, instead of outright making it public to one sector, while retaining privacy in another.
Thank you for writing this Bill. As someone who majored in journalism, I hate this notion that we need to sacrifice journalism for the sake of esports. Slasher reporting Snute to Liquid a few days early isn't killing esports. And I really don't think it killed the hype. Its just not that exciting of a signing. Snute is a damn good player, TL is a damn good team, but that doesn't mean its crazy hype. Its just another signing. Its not signing Jaedong. Its not signing Taeja even.
And if you look at the thread about the article Slasher wrote and the official announcement thread, together they had more posts than Hero's official announcement. And that was at a time where things were all go go go with sc2. Did Slasher kill the hype on that signing too? And the Zenio signing? There was far more discussion about Snute than Zenio.
Also, what is this revenue train that player signings create? And if its so great, why are the vast majority of signing announcements boring as fuck? These mid tier team signings that Slasher is really hurting, what are they? Which ones did he really fuck up? Cause almost all of the announcements are just a short post saying so and so joined team X with a bit of backstory. Or Slasher posts its on gamespot and then the same press release is sent out from the team. Slasher isn't killing esports. Not buying it.
Quite frankly most esports journalists seem too scared to do what Slasher does, mainly because they don't have a site like GameSpot backing them. And that makes me sad. Journalists in esports have next to no power and are at the will of teams/players/leagues for the most part. And thats just not good. Its not how things work in the real world and esports should be no exception.
If Slasher gave in and stopped doing what he is doing, when can we start again? When can journalism be journalism? Its a slippery slope. Journalists would be at the will of teams even more than they are now. And that is horrifying to me.
I wish there was a way to get Adam Schefter from Espn's opinion, perhaps OP has the power...He tweets like 900 things a day to the tune of " ____ in discussions for accepting head coaching job/position with _____"...the guy is constantly firing off relevant information to fans via social media, and he does an amazing job (not sure he ever sleeps). He does this for 3 reasons: 1. He loves sports that much. 2. He loves the community that much and wants to share. 3. It is his job (and he's insanely good at it). Having said that, I think Garfield made a great distinction between major league sports and e-sports. If the financial model for e-sports was as stable and vast as it is for regular sports...this would essentially be a non issue...but that isnt the case...furthermore, I concur fully with TB and Garfield's thoughts on producing quality journalism instead of just tweeting spoilers. Imagine if Slasher had his own Gamespot show that discussed these big stories in depth (After they had been revealed by the teams etc) and conducting live interviews etc...I know i'd watch it, and it would drive traffic for all parties involved. Slasher rolled with the punches extremely well, despite clearly having his feelings hurt and I really respect that about him. Garfield is also exactly right, however, he said more than was necessary to make his point and (if they consider each other friends) I think he owes Slasher an apology (without sacrificing his point of view). glhf
So yes, slasher is right, but even so, he should reconsider what he is doing as it well inevitably hurt him.
The fundamental issue I have with this is that yes, it will hurt slasher in the end due to the boycotts and burning of bridges, but that is not what should be celebrated, but people like you are. Slasher has done nothing wrong, nor has been reporting facts wrong. He's just doing his job. People should be outraged that teams want to control slasher on when he should be able to announce things he finds out from 3rd parties. To counteract people like you, I will be boycotting all of EG's sponsors due to Alex's actions.
lets be honest if you are that easy to not buy any EG sponsor products, you werent goin to in the first place. anyone who would buy products of EG sponsors becaus they sponsor EG wont change their position that easily. i personally have never liked slasher anyway, this just confirms my dislike of him and desire to not help him with ad views or content numbers.
I think the issue is the difference in the level of sport, and income streams.
Alex addresses this breifly and clearly during the show. Where income into esports comes from is the key to this issue.
I'd like to add to that idea, that esports is clearly far far smaller than even some less mainstream sports, such as Cricket.
Therefore, Media and players and teams MUST get a long, and it is a one way street. Media need something to report, and want something to report, so they can draw views to their sites and blogs and the like, and in turn sell advertising and in turn receive advertising revenue. Teams want to do the same directly as well, and if the team releases the news first, all can benfit quite well, as where if news breaks first, the team does not benefit nearly as much as the first scenario.
So, media, it can feel justified all it wants. It has that right. But I feel Slasher is the Perez Hilton of esports news, he's a tabloid, not to be taken seriously. The teams and major makers of news might boycott him for a period of say half a year, and I think that would be sufficient for him to learn what hard journalism work really is, if he doesn't know already. And with a his self professed nickname of !@#$slasher, I find it very hard to take him seriously.
On January 17 2013 04:34 Yammiez wrote: Bill, Thank you for your professional insight, it was a great read.
This thread contains a lot of great discussion but one thing I heavily agree with is the comparison between e-sports and regular sports for journalism holds little value. In my opinion (humble opinion as a fan and observer), the functional economies are fundamentally different. In some way, e-sports is mainly driven by hype, page-views, likes, followers, etc. which are in turn converted into revenue for these teams. It is understandable to be deeply distraught when the same news bits that generate numbers, and in turn money, are 'released' by another source, but this seems to be the raw nature of journalism.
It always hurts to lose money, especially when immense strategies are employed to garner and nourish every little bit of news to maximize return, but come on... as an 'intelligent', internet community that wants to constantly be in the know, Slasher is taking unnecessary heat being a messenger.
i disagree with that.
but even pretending that your opinion is correct, that's really just more evidence that the foreign "everyone for themselves" model is garbage and won't last long-term (since previous history is just forgotten). If there was an umbrella company over teams and that coordinated with the press things like this wouldn't happen as much (as well as there being more financial stability in general). And even then there isn't much of a need for cooperation.
Frankly though, I doubt the number of "page views" being swung greatly either way.
Beyond even THAT part of the bigger issue also lies in teams complete lack of effort to promote themselves or their players or their news in any exciting medium in general. Proleague has off the bat. Axiom has since they started two months or so ago. Two or so months ago...a full two years into sc2. It's a sad mess.
So I understand both sides of the argument. So if a journalist has sources and reports on leaked information and the teams do not like this why do they have to argue about it? Withhold the information and release it. Slasher will have to deal with it because then he loses sources and problem solved.
Also, about Alex's rant about how what Slasher does only helps himself, isn't what EG wants only helps EG? Thats the point of business right? Last I checked, Slasher needs to help himself too. Journalism in esports isn't in a great place either, yet it is absolutely a necessary function of esports.
Excellent blog write up. I definitely felt like they were upset with him doing his job. They spent 20 minutes telling him how to better do his job, when they are not within the right jurisdiction to give that kind of criticism, especially with the tone they presented it in. It felt like they were using Rod as a scapegoat for all invasive journalism for eSports simply because someone let the word out that X player is signing with Y team.
EG, you're my favorite team but please don't act like the world should only act when you say it can. That's bullshit and you know it.
Just like people point to the Music/Movie/TV industry about how they need to change how they do business because times are changing it seems like EG is about to have to do the same. They were kings of announcements and got a lot of hits building hype for their next thing. Now comes Slasher providing the "announcement" before EG can maximize it for sponsors/web traffic, so time for EG to evolve with the times. They had a lot of control when it was smaller and people were less interested in "spoiling" but now that the scene is bigger there is actually an audience ready and willing to consume that "spoiled" news.
In the end it's EG's responsibility to not have information leaked if they don't want it leaked. If multiple parties are involved, sorry but tough shit because it's going to get out unless you have some type of NDA involved.
On January 17 2013 02:24 Crashburn wrote:He should not care about the progression or regression of e-sports, even.
I don't agree with this. I don't know Slasher too much, but I'm assuming he's an e-sports journalist. If e-sports goes down the tubes, he needs to find another job just like if baseball were to somehow disappear tomorrow, you'd be out of a job too. If e-sports grows, then he grows.
On January 17 2013 02:24 Crashburn wrote:He should not care about the progression or regression of e-sports, even.
I don't agree with this. I don't know Slasher too much, but I'm assuming he's an e-sports journalist. If e-sports goes down the tubes, he needs to find another job just like if baseball were to somehow disappear tomorrow, you'd be out of a job too. If e-sports grows, then he grows.
yeahp basically. more sc2 fans means more views for his articles and interviews. it is not his duty to withold information or to help grow Sc2, but is in his best interest to help grow it. Of course he doesnt have to, thats been stated and restated, but itd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds you
On January 17 2013 05:08 jmbthirteen wrote: Also, about Alex's rant about how what Slasher does only helps himself, isn't what EG wants only helps EG? Thats the point of business right? Last I checked, Slasher needs to help himself too. Journalism in esports isn't in a great place either, yet it is absolutely a necessary function of esports.
I can understand if you do not grasp the concept of advertising and media relation economics.
Basically, for the BEST benefit to ALL parties, the main source or team releases first, and the journalists release second, shortly after the main source. Both put out a good product or content for maximum effect. Both ride the wave.
"Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
1) Great piece, though it is ultimately a brand name, dressed up version of the general Reddit consensus.
2) I lol'd at the Harmsworth bit. When defending journalism, I've always used George Orwell's nearly identical quote "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations."
3) Obviously I'm biased because I work for EG, but I do more or less agree with this piece. Still, Tom Junod (a brilliant journalist writing mostly for Esquire) told me once that the difference between real journalism and the middle school gossip queen is that a true journalist understands when to withhold information. Sometimes, I think Slasher could use a little more judgement on this count. Now before you flame me...
Consider, for example, the case of Wikileaks. Now, I am all for transparency in government, but I also understand that government (or any institution for that matter) requires a certain amount of discretion to run effectively. You can try to argue this point, but you will be wrong -- this is a basic and reasonable claim of modern political science. Some of the cables that were released, needed to be released, because they exposed various atrocities committed in our American name that we should be aware of. Something like "Collateral Murder" would fall under this heading.
But others, like the private observations of foreign diplomats by state department officials, should have *never* been released, because they only serve to damage the American government, while providing no positive benefit for anyone. Expanding this line of thought, the fundamental issue here is that releasing certain bits of information, regardless of how it was leaked, damages an institution with no potential benefit. And this is when journalists start to look like middle school gossip queens.
Though the leaks are an (if not the) essential issue of this discussion, Alex is right to point out that these kind of actions do nothing to help eSports. If Slasher was reporting on, say, a sketchy player trade, we have a right to know so that we can hold the offending institutions accountable. Slasher just stealing EG's thunder might forward his career and feed the rumor mill, but damages eSports as a whole. The call here ultimately comes down to judgement.
And this is where I think Jibba's post is invaluable to this discussion: "I think part of the problem with this is that while you're comparing actions, you're not comparing contexts." Jibba here refers to OP's example of the Cliff Lee trade, which as he rightly notes, did not cause a furor. But it's clear from Alex's words that the leak of Jaedong that Slasher's actions *were* bad for EG.
Could Slasher have known that? Probably, he seems like a pretty intelligent guy. But now he knows for the future, and if I were him, I would start making better judgement calls about what should be released and what shouldn't. Reporting every rumor he (or any journalist) gets is simply not the proper course of action. Again, judgement is the difference between being Bob Woodward or the middle school gossip queen.
Alex Garfield made the biggest fool of himself last night publicly defacing and demonizing Slasher in a conversation that in reality should have been completely private.
Im glad the feedback has been unanimously "garfeild fucked up".
On January 17 2013 05:08 jmbthirteen wrote: Also, about Alex's rant about how what Slasher does only helps himself, isn't what EG wants only helps EG? Thats the point of business right? Last I checked, Slasher needs to help himself too. Journalism in esports isn't in a great place either, yet it is absolutely a necessary function of esports.
I can understand if you do not grasp the concept of advertising and media relation economics.
Basically, for the BEST benefit to ALL parties, the main source or team releases first, and the journalists release second, shortly after the main source. Both put out a good product or content for maximum effect. Both ride the wave.
For maxmimum effect, it only works one way.
if thats best, then why does no other industry work this way? esports needs to adapt
On January 17 2013 05:08 jmbthirteen wrote: Also, about Alex's rant about how what Slasher does only helps himself, isn't what EG wants only helps EG? Thats the point of business right? Last I checked, Slasher needs to help himself too. Journalism in esports isn't in a great place either, yet it is absolutely a necessary function of esports.
I disagree. EG making some sort of official announcement to the community ie through a hype video or webpage like how they did for jaedong, builds excitement throughout the community. I forgot who said it on Inside the Game, whether it was Incontrol or Alex, but the fact is that there are less views and less excitement building around the announcement, which leads to a portion of the community who simply does not care about the official announcement. Obviously Slasher is just doing his job, no one can argue against that point, but that does not mean he has to lessen the hype the entire community feels just because he just wants a couple thousand more hits on his article. Him withholding information for longer would give him time to release better quality articles, build better relationships with teams and players, and be better for the community by making more hype and adding to the excitement for eSports. And for the people that argue that they want the news a couple of days before, I think that is a terrible argument as again it is only lessening the excitement for the whole community.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
so instead you try and control the journalists, because thats the quick and easy fix at the moment....
I like the part about last night's ITG when Alex tells Slasher, "You're taking money out of my pocket," as if Slasher the journalist should give a damn about.
EG's bottomline should not be the concern of Slasher or any other journalist whatsoever.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: I think part of the problem with this is that while you're comparing actions, you're not comparing contexts. The dynamic between journalist and company should always be a struggle of sorts, but this is a nascent industry and my guess is right now the power is tipped much more in favor of company/team than reporter. Real sports reporters, or at least their media companies, have a lot more power in the exchange than Slasher does.
I disagree with you here. A difference of industries don't imply in a difference of journalism. Journalism should abide by the same principles no matter the context. Journalism is way bigger and more important than esports, it's the CEOs and teams that need to adapt, hire publicists and get their shit together, not the opposite.
Journalism has a lot of push and pull to it, and if you're not in the position of power, you have to be able to compromise to get what you want in the future. That's just the nature of it. :/
It's not the difference in industries per se. It's the differences in clout, which you need to leverage in order to be a journalist. The job isn't just reporting news, it's also getting access to it.
I was a columnist for Gannett News (they own USA Today among many other media outlets) in the early to mid 1990's. While you are correct that getting access to the news is the biggest challenge, and biting the hand that feeds you is not always the best way to go about it, what strikes me in the esports industry is the fact that most of the people involved are young.
We are not talking about corporate suits with years of experience massaging their statements (and non-statements) to the press. We are basically talking about kids who willfully discuss almost anything in a mostly live format. These are not media pros and as such are much easier to take advantage of than a normal business or industry.
If anything the comparison to baseball is unfair because baseball is so much harder to break into, or get info from. Esports by comparison is like taking candy from a baby. As long as the people involved are young and loose lipped (which they always will be in this industry) the barrier to access will remain much lower than normal.
On January 17 2013 05:08 jmbthirteen wrote: Also, about Alex's rant about how what Slasher does only helps himself, isn't what EG wants only helps EG? Thats the point of business right? Last I checked, Slasher needs to help himself too. Journalism in esports isn't in a great place either, yet it is absolutely a necessary function of esports.
I think the argument Alex was trying to make was that the e-sports pie is still very small, and that e-sports journalists and team owners are BOTH better off cooperating for now. Someday, sure, perhaps we will have the kind of environment that traditional sports do, but everything is extremely uncertain. It would only take a few big sponsors pulling support to kill virtually any team in Starcraft 2 today.
To be fair Alex was also providing examples of how Slasher could help himself just as much without hurting the teams. Stuff like exclusives, and generally preparing to release a real quality piece on the announcement date. No one said Slasher is somehow breaking the law, or could be forced to stop, and I find the whole comment in the OP of this thread about free societies to be completely out of place. What Alex was asking Slasher to do was to choose to cooperate out of mutual self-interest (see the comments about "value propositions" that Alex made).
Also, to say Alex has only helped himself is not accurate. He employs a large number of players, creating jobs in e-sports, which is very limited industry so far. If not for his ability to generate good exposure for his sponsors, those gamers would be making less somewhere else or, in many cases, not employed at all.
I find it pretty ridiculous that people want to compare Starcraft 2 to Baseball. It's so different it's almost a joke. The money is generated very differently for a e-sports team than it is for a Baseball team, and unlike Baseball, this industry is not guaranteed to last long. Baseball is deeply rooted in American culture, can anyone say the same for Starcraft in any country other than Korea? Many teams have failed, and the amount of people watching an event is absolutely miniscule compared to how many people watch major league baseball, let alone more popular sporting leagues like the NBA.
You also have much younger players involved in e-sports (16-22 typically) who are much less seasoned at dealing with press agents, and this often results in massive damage to their team's PR efforts due to leaks. I think that, when dealing with minors, the issue may be further complicated on an ethical level. To make it worse, they are rarely supported by the kind of lawyers, PR specialists, and trainers that real athletes can afford. Even EG, the most sophisticated team in the industry, has very limited professional capacities to micro-manage their players compared to a MLB or NBA team.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
so instead you try and control the journalists, because thats the quick and easy fix at the moment....
That's a strange response. Can you respond to what I've said? Do you have a suggestion or can clarify a process? Because if you can't and if you understand what I've typed, then you see the dilemma and how inapplicable a traditional model is to e-sports right now.
When has alex garfield made a public appearance that DIDNT make him look like a complete moron/tool?
Alex Garfield is not the 'rule' of esports, he is the 'exception'.
Most 'pro' teams stand to benefit from ANY coverage they may recieve on gamespot. EG's wishes honestly mean jack shit when it comes to esports, only alexs' wallet.
@Sunfish: I agree with your points about needs for discretion/gosip queen reporting. I think the problem is that those kinds of arguments are drowned and the quality of discussion went down because your boss made a really really bad impression of himself and your organization with the way he handled himself live on the show.
Edit: Also, there is an obvious problem of slippery slope of when is esports grown up so that it can withstand leaking and "serious" journalism. Who decides that?
You have a nice assessment but a lot of the dynamics in this situation don't apply directly to conventional sports and journalism. We can all judge the actions of Alex Garfield and slasher from our point of view but we do so with incomplete information on the relationship between Alex and Rod. How many journalists that report stories know the CEO of the company they're reporting on? Rod and Alex and friends and it seems to me that there was an informal agreement between them, and perhaps every notable head in e-sports, to not do anything that would detriment someone else in the scene. This isn't confirmed, of course, but based on their banter on ITG last night, it can be assumed.
Alex is seeing things from a business perspective. Rod is seeing things from a journalistic point of view. However, both Alex and Rod, I would expect, have a common interest of expanding the e-sports scene. Alex does this by generating revenue from areas outside e-sports. Rod does this by obtaining publicity on the scene. Because slasher published information preemptively, Alex generates less revenue for himself and thus, e-sports. The real issue I see isn't the decision to report on news, but the presumed interest of both parties to grow e-sports and one party opting for a decision that seemingly goes against that common interest. Is slasher's journalistic integrity greater than his interest in growing the e-sports scene in this case?
In summary, the dynamics between Alex and Rod are different than conventional sports and things that apply in traditional sports don't necessarily apply in this case, since there exists unknown information. I'm not going to contend that journalists shouldn't do the equivalent of what slasher did for the purpose of his/her journalistic integrity. However, I don't agree that it's the right time for a journalist within e-sports to exercise that integrity at the expense of e-sports. In a more perfect world, a situation of a journalist releasing inside information preemptively should start occurring when the e-sports scene is large enough such that a freelance journalist from outside the e-sports scene takes interest in doing so for their benefit. At the moment, it wouldn't benefit a freelance journalist from out of the blue to report something like this. There isn't enough incentive. I suppose slasher, as well as other journalists and writers, would disagree with my views on this.
Edit: To be clear, I, nor do I think anyone else, is really disagreeing that slasher has the right to do what he did. It's unanimously agreed that yes, slasher is a journalist, and he can do this. However, what I am arguing is that should slasher have done what he did if he wanted to benefit e-sports. He has not given his view on this at all so far and the most we have from his side is that he has the power to do so. No answer has been given whether he should exercise that power in this situation.
Very glad that people get this..... people should be somewhat worried that he would be considered a leader of eSports. Sometimes I think that the business world in eSports is like the land of misfit toys but for corporate individuals.
Well! I want to find out that Snute is now on teamliquid by...seeing it on teamliquid. I want to see a nice write up, a video, comments from old/new team members. All official, typed up with a bow on top. I don't want to see a twitter post on /r/stacraft with Slasher and his mysterious "sources" claiming that Snute is now on TL. I cannot say whether I'm alone sharing this opinion or not but that's what I want!
On January 17 2013 05:31 Kishin2 wrote: Alex is seeing things from a business perspective. Rod is seeing things from a journalistic point of view. However, both Alex and Rod, I would expect, have a common interest of expanding the e-sports scene. Alex does this by generating revenue from areas outside e-sports. Rod does this by obtaining publicity on the scene. Because slasher published information preemptively, Alex generates less revenue for himself and thus, e-sports. The real issue I see isn't the decision to report on news, but the presumed interest of both parties to grow e-sports and one party opting for a decision that seemingly goes against that common interest. Is slasher's journalistic integrity greater than his interest in growing the e-sports scene in this case?
To answer your question, yes. If Slasher wants to be a journalist, not just the SC2 journalist, then his own decision on when to break (or not) a news story comes before anything esports related.
If esports can't survive because its business model revolves around secrecy then it has one of two choices. A) get everyone to keep quiet and don't leak anything ever, or B) close up shop and move on. My guess is neither is a realistic option, and the business model can survive quite well if the companies surrounding it were smarter.
Any actual journalist has no responsibility to anything other than the story. Every good journalist will know where the line is drawn to maximize both exclusives and scoops, but the notion of needing to work a certain way "for esports" is a ridiculous notion.
On January 17 2013 05:38 Disposition1989 wrote: Well! I want to find out that Snute is now on teamliquid by...seeing it on teamliquid. I want to see a nice write up, a video, comments from old/new team members. All official, typed up with a bow on top. I don't want to see a twitter post on /r/stacraft with Slasher and his mysterious "sources" claiming that Snute is now on TL. I cannot say whether I'm alone sharing this opinion or not but that's what I want!
How is what you want mutually exclusive to what Slasher provides? The team-sites will always put that out, whether they've been scooped or not.
The OP is wonderfully written and articulates the issues at hand correctly. Journalists are not firms PR-men nor should they be. Well done Slasher, keep up your good work.
On January 17 2013 05:38 Disposition1989 wrote: Well! I want to find out that Snute is now on teamliquid by...seeing it on teamliquid. I want to see a nice write up, a video, comments from old/new team members. All official, typed up with a bow on top. I don't want to see a twitter post on /r/stacraft with Slasher and his mysterious "sources" claiming that Snute is now on TL. I cannot say whether I'm alone sharing this opinion or not but that's what I want!
TL planned to announce snute around now, but since slasher leaked it they had to rush their own announcment out. they had a lot of stuff planned but could use barely any of it since they had to announce it over a week before they planned to.
sure the announcment they put out was amazing, but it could have been so much better : (. but slasher robbed us of that enjoyment.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
so instead you try and control the journalists, because thats the quick and easy fix at the moment....
That's a strange response. Can you respond to what I've said? Do you have a suggestion or can clarify a process? Because if you can't and if you understand what I've typed, then you see the dilemma and how inapplicable a traditional model is to e-sports right now.
Well your post is talking about how difficult it is to keep information from leaking because so many people know about it, people from other teams, other players and such. Stuff that isn't under your (EG's) control. And with no "NFL" to regulate the talking, as teams can't actually freely talk about player movement without punishment from the league, its very hard to prevent things from leaking.
So instead, we get Alex saying, If you continue to publish this info, teams are going to cut you off. Right there is trying to control the journalists.
My suggestion? Limit the people in the know on your end as best as possible. Control the information as best as possible. Make sure both parties involved in the negotiation know to keep their mouths shut. People in esports are so loose lipped. Just from paying attention to twitter, you can learn quite a lot. Its actually hilarious. And if teams can come together to blackball Slasher, than they can come together to control their info better too.
Far more people know of signings and such in traditional sports due to all the paper work that must be filed that does not exist in esports (ie. league papers). And yet signings do happen without people knowing from time to time. Deron Williams resigning with the Nets comes to mind.
I dont think any team should be telling Slasher how to do his job quite frankly. Do what you do. Slasher does what he does. Learn to coexist, the rest of the world has.
On January 17 2013 05:31 Kishin2 wrote: Alex is seeing things from a business perspective. Rod is seeing things from a journalistic point of view. However, both Alex and Rod, I would expect, have a common interest of expanding the e-sports scene. Alex does this by generating revenue from areas outside e-sports. Rod does this by obtaining publicity on the scene. Because slasher published information preemptively, Alex generates less revenue for himself and thus, e-sports. The real issue I see isn't the decision to report on news, but the presumed interest of both parties to grow e-sports and one party opting for a decision that seemingly goes against that common interest. Is slasher's journalistic integrity greater than his interest in growing the e-sports scene in this case?
If esports can't survive because its business model revolves around secrecy then it has one of two choices. A) get everyone to keep quiet and don't leak anything ever, or B) close up shop and move on.
I agree with this. If esports can't survive slasher breaking news first and it's hurting them so much, then esports doesn't deserve to survive because that's a faulty business model to begin with.
This is why foreigners keep losing in everything. The teams are a marketing agency first and a competition team second. Alex loves to shout to the rooftops that no sponsor has ever come to him complaining about poor results. They only care about how much exposure you give them.
There's a fundamental problem with esports when results aren't valued more because sports are all about results. Esports should not be reduced to how many eyeballs see an ad or website over actual player results. Sadly, that's how it is in the west and if esports someday dies because of that model, then they deserve it because they acted in direct contrast to what it means to be a sport in the first place.
I agree with both Alex Garfield and Nazguls fury about their recent signings being leaked, but to blame Slasher is just absurd. They need to look into their own organizations, or try to come to an agreement with other teams whilst fighting over "hot signings". That having hype-videos and "trends" when a big new signing happens is of course important for these teams, and if they all wish to keep their sponsors happy and further eSports they should not leak such info just to hurt other organizations.
All credz to Slasher for sticking to his guns, and eagerly awaiting Alex Garfields response in the coming days!
How can Slasher be commended for finding sources when it most likely took no effort. He has been in esports for a while and seemed to be "friends" with a lotta players so if anything I would say he betrayed his friends. He also wouldn't deny any accusations that Alex Garfield threw at him, such as having multiple discussions pertaining to this topic of not leaking announcements, so I'm not going to hate on Slasher, but I definitely don't commend him for what he's done.
On January 17 2013 02:24 Crashburn wrote:He should not care about the progression or regression of e-sports, even.
I don't agree with this. I don't know Slasher too much, but I'm assuming he's an e-sports journalist. If e-sports goes down the tubes, he needs to find another job just like if baseball were to somehow disappear tomorrow, you'd be out of a job too. If e-sports grows, then he grows.
And now you're falling into this trap of many about the pipe dream of esports. Sorry, but esports is just another industry in the REAL WORLD. And in the real world, businesses succeed or they fail, and many of them fail. You don't really care that Slasher would be out of the job because if the scene does fall, Rob would just apply for another journalism position in a different field. Or not, because Gamespot at least covers a wide range of gaming. He could cover gaming conventions like PAX or E3.
Anyone attempting to blame Slasher in this situation to get a grip on how reporting works. Bill makes a great point here, even though ESPORTS is a bit of an "old boys club" (which IMO is the source of a LOT of the drama and problems in the industry), freedom of the press and free speech trump all. You can create legal documents all you want, but trying to keep something secret in this day and age is nearly impossible. The second that someone not covered by a legal agreement gets wind of a secret, it will spread like wildfire. As soon as that secret gets to a reporter they will report it because these are things people care about and want to read. Sponsors, pageviews and EG, TL or ESPORTS be damned, a journalist has a responsibility to post about things like this and anything else newsworthy. It's their job.
Good job Slasher for reporting news. Don't stop even if they blacklist you.
For the record I have no problem with a team saying hey if you stay quiet on this, you get an exclusive interview. And I have no problem with Slasher accepting or declining that option. That's a judgement call up to him. Teams have the right to be upset with him if he declines, but they should really get over it.
Would you not say that the pro sports and SC2 scenes are different enough that Alex's opinion could be right? If a pro team gets their trade announced they don't care. They don't rely on that income. SC2 teams do and so when their news gets leaked and it is done in a non-hyping way, they lose money which is a fair chunk of what they make.
Would you not think that in this different industry it might not be better for people like Slasher to work a bit more in tandem with the teams? I am not saying he sacrifices his journalistic integrity but that in some circumstances he should consider what they want and get exclusive interviews after they announce it or something instead.
There is a good chance that taking that path could in fact end up as a better business model for Slasher himself than to just break the news before the teams.
It is a well written blog but this to me just seems like Slasher needed someone to fight his fight for him so he reached out to his "contacts". Why else would an ESPN sportswriter "weigh-in" on the subject? Slasher was destroyed on ITG last night, dodged every question, and couldn't admit that what he did and if it was right/wrong(not arguing either way).
I'm not disagreeing with this blog. It just seems sad to me that he doesn't have the spine to stand up on his own.
On January 17 2013 06:11 BRaegO wrote: It is a well written blog but this to me just seems like Slasher needed someone to fight his fight for him so he reached out to his "contacts". Why else would an ESPN sportswriter "weigh-in" on the subject? Slasher was destroyed on ITG last night, dodged every question, and couldn't admit that what he did and if it was right/wrong(not arguing either way).
I'm not disagreeing with this blog. It just seems sad to me that he doesn't have the spine to stand up on his own.
Going on ITG is the equivalent of going on Fox News as a liberal. You are going to get destroyed if you have an opposing viewpoint. When 4/5 people on that show work for EG, there is no other possible outcome. Either Slasher comes off as an asshole for standing up for himself and getting destroyed or he comes off as a totally dodgy sleazeball by not answering questions and still getting destroyed. The outcome was bound to be the same, the only difference is how Slasher gets portrayed.
You can't compare Cliff Lee to an SC2 player because baseball fans like baseball a lot more tab SC fans like SC.
Frankly people care less about what team someone is on and more about the drama involved in getting them there. IE this whole pile of EG shit. Sad to see, probably. Big part of why I don't watch Starcraft much anymore.
On January 17 2013 06:02 Rayeth wrote: Bill makes a great point here, even though ESPORTS is a bit of an "old boys club" (which IMO is the source of a LOT of the drama and problems in the industry),
I would argue it's actually a "young boys club" and that's half the problem and the cause of the drama. They may be progamers but they're not managed like most pro athletes are. This entire kerfuffle is evidence to that.
The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
This has nothing to do with 'freedom of the press' at all, and anyone confusing this is either intellectually lazy or dishonest.
No one is addressing Slasher's legal right to publish this content, they are evaluating its cost versus its benefit. Teams can, and it sounds like, will, refuse to talk to Slasher if they decide the cost is not worth the benefit.
Is this the road we want to go down?
IT is common in the larger world for a journalist to get on the bad side of an organization and that organization to refuse any new content to that reporter/media outlet. This is not a violation of 'freedom of the press.' There is no legal mandate to communicate with Slasher. The teams have, in large part, cooperated with Slasher, even when they got little out of the arrangement.
The more relevant topic seems to be, "What type of journalism is the esports community (teams, fans, leagues) willing to support?"
Although I think Alex Garfield is wrong about the core of the argument at hand, this doesn't mean Slasher is doing a good job all of a sudden.
All he really does is break easy-to-access news a couple of days before it would otherwise be announced officially. I would like to see some digging. Expose all those dodgy teams/houses in Europe e.g. Ministry of Win, Eclypsia. Find out why Steelseries no longer sponsors EG etc. In other words, provide the hidden information that would otherwise not be available to the community. Heck, he may even do some good by pushing some of the dodgy people out of the industry.
Edit: Oh, and get on the case of those tournaments that don't pay out their prizemoney quickly/at all.
On January 17 2013 06:11 BRaegO wrote: It is a well written blog but this to me just seems like Slasher needed someone to fight his fight for him so he reached out to his "contacts". Why else would an ESPN sportswriter "weigh-in" on the subject? Slasher was destroyed on ITG last night, dodged every question, and couldn't admit that what he did and if it was right/wrong(not arguing either way).
I'm not disagreeing with this blog. It just seems sad to me that he doesn't have the spine to stand up on his own.
While you have a point, there was more to it than just Slasher not being able to defend himself. The situation where he was, all EG, Alex talking constantly over him, his godawful microphone that couldn't handle anything, even if Slasher could've defended himself.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
The fundamentals in journalism lies in indpendence of a party from other parties
Can't believe of the childish entitlement that Alex put on, he sounded like a elementary school kid. Like he has serious issues about situations when he doesn't get his will trough.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
Then the organizations within esports that would benefit from regulation need to put effort into creating contracts between the larger teams and organizations. Using that as a reason that things get easily leaked I understand, but if you know how easy it is to leak big information why would you put all your eggs in that basket? If you know how likely it is that a leak will happen perhaps simple announcements are not a smart way to pull ad revenue to EG's site. Maybe a smarter plan would be to have your announcement ready, but put more emphasis and effort on other things, like videos of these players interacting with their new team mates, or releasing replay packs of the player as a "celebration" of the announcement, literally anything but just an announcement.
Otherwise you are playing a high risk high reward gambling game, and when it didn't go well the owner of your team took it personal that a journalist did exactly what a journalist does. You and Alex (on reddit) have made it clear you understand how hard it is to keep this info under wraps. Now, instead of scapegoating a journalist your organization should be proactive and say either "how can we work with other esports orgs to make sure this doesn't happen" or "how can we shift our marketing focus away from risky moves?" Blaming a reporter for reporting not only, in my personal opinion, looks foolish, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent your team from having this same issue in the future. Even if you do cut all communication to Slasher, if as I've seen EG say, the info came from others that will do nothing to stop this from happening again.
I don't follow why people are saying things like "it's not EG leaking the info it's 3rd parties" etc.. In that case, EG or whoever doesn't want their info leaked, needs to have contracts in place to stop info being leaked, or it needs to work with people who it can trust. I know I'd be pissed if someone I was doing business with leaked information to journalists. Why would I trust you to work with you again if your going to reveal secrets to outside parties?
EG doesn't want to piss off IGN or whoever leaked the JD thing because they still have a business agreement with the leagues, they don't have an agreement with Slasher, so they choose to scapegoat him. It may have been more beneficial for slashers page views if he'd accepted Alex's deal and got the exclusive interview and had it ready to post once the announcement was made, but that's on Slasher, once the information is out there it's up to him if he wants to break the story or use it as leverage to get something bigger, that's what journalists do. (Go watch Page One, the New York Times documentary to see how real journalists negotiate bigger and better stories for themselves.)
I was the one who re-posted the Snute scoop immediately to TL after reading it, I had no qualms about spreading that info as that's how sports journalism works in the wider world. I don't know about anyone else here, but I get most of my news through TL, and not via other E-sports teams websites. After the JD story appeared, I visited the EG site more than once for updates and confirmation, so they probably got 2-3x the hits from me, rather than if I had only went the once when it was announced. I visited prior to the announcement, and after the announcement. Usually I don't visit EG's site at all. Journalism drives hits, after reading about a breaking story, I go straight to the homepage for confirmation. Both sides benefit from page views.
The whole blackout thing is stupid too, what if Slasher and other E-sports journalists just decided to then put an embargo on reporting about EG, I'm sure their sponsors wouldn't be best pleased, as they're getting a lot less PR, advertising and general awareness. I'm fairly sure Gamespot gets more general gaming readers than it does E-sports readers, so anything that pushes E-sports into further markets is by definition growing E-sports. People are just too narrow minded to see it.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
As a journalist, shitting on your sources is just plain dumb. Acting like Slasher is some model professional merely doing his job is almost as dumb. EG's uncontrolled leaking is also dumb. Why can't everyone just be dumb? This whole 'one or the other' dichotomy seems incapable of appreciating the full breadth of derp in the picture.
On January 17 2013 04:02 Jazzyseid wrote: the fact that Garfield threatened to have Slasher black balled by other esports teams because of this is shocking. it shows how small time and small minded and immature this industry still is. his treatment of slasher last night was appalling and was akin to a child throwing their toys out of the pram.
garfield threatening to try and form a media cartel of who they will and wont talk to is something that needs to have the glare of the spotlight put on it. small time cheap behavior from one of the industries biggest names
Yeah it is quite embarrassing. Waiting for the day until real leaders in this industry demonstrate they can see the bigger picture.
As much as I enjoyed Crashburn's entry, I feel and seem to get the feeling that other people see this as well, that this argument is very much a over arching issue in eSports in how its operated. Yes Crashburn is right in saying that Slasher leaking information is similar to any Adam Schefter report about a player meeting in X city with Y team, and in all honestly Slasher (as a media/press entity) should be reporting this, if this was a modern sports business. eSports is not a modern sports franchise in the way we think of the sporting industry. Teams and I also have to add here AGENTS like players being linked for either a) misinformation b) to haggle over a contract or c) to generate interest among the fan base. And if this information is leaked it generally doesn't hurt the teams because (as Garfield pointed out) Sport Franchises generate money from a multitude of sources including: ticket revenue, merchandise, TV Contracts and advertisement. Other teams want their respected league to be talked about because it drums up general interest in the league thus causing advertisers to want to spend more ad money which gets spread out in revenue sharing that is setup in CBA's.
All of that is not the case with eSports, eSports traffic is generated through eyeballs, there is minimal (if any) ticket revenue. Little merchandise sales, at least not on the scale of the Big 4 and no revenue sharing. Most of the market is built around the big announcement of player moves or a new eSports team in say LoL or DotA through advertisers or streams with ads. Basically it just comes down to Advertisement rev, which in its self and multiple people are pointing out is a bad model. Single point of failure is usually never a good thing and that is the Western eSport model. And the only way to fix the problem is with teams working out its revenue stream, either through garnering some tv interest or a multitude of other solutions.
Until that is address there needs to be work around for the current problem that we are "blessed" with today. Journalists like Slasher have their role, and TB pointed this out very well last night, they are Tools, and they have to understand that yes they are tools. We need eSports journalism to capture, as someone put in another thread, the background of the players. Who they are, what are their interests and why we should give 2 shits about them as a player. They can do all this and generate interest in their site (gamespot, pcgamer, etc) but not by taking away from other teams revenue. Personally I would like to see some like AG approach Slasher and be like "Hey we are about to sign JD, announcement is this date here is an NDA or embargo with naming the player specifically but we will give you first interview or something along those lines." Balance between the teams in journalist. Then with the NDA or embargo setup properly Slasher can tweet (as TB had Slasher do with Axiom/Acer) Team X is reported to be close to signing a top player. hearing details that announcement in the next couple of days. Link.... Boom interest to reporters site and the feeling among fans of oh hey, this guy has inside knowledge i have to check him out more often, while generating interesting in the teams announcement.
Its not perfect but eSports to survive needs to understand its place, revenue stream and player management. Grow at an rate that is sustainable and try not to expand quickly. MLS is a perfect example, they fucked up in the beginning, went down to almost no teams and were close to folding. But Garber address the needs of the league and now its doing the best it has ever done. Does western eSports need a format with a real league, commissioner and a set CBA? Its quite possible, hell it would organize it. But they key is creating a need to fix the single point of revenue. And eSports as a whole has to fix that for it to survive or yes it will die in the west.
I would have liked inside the game to try bringing on people that agree with slasher. Everyone involved with inside the game are EG mouthpieces. It was like 5 on 1 there.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: For Alex, his biggest mistake was just announcing it publicly. If you quietly blacklist Slasher, then most people would just assume Slasher is bad at getting content. "No comment" would've saved them this mess.
It's a bit ironic that Alex did more harm than good for his own cause. Although considering the SlayerS practice boycott (I'm still unsure how real that was outside of the first month) eventually came to light, it makes one wonder if a silent blacklist against Slasher would have been outed eventually, perhaps creating an even bigger scandal.
Why does everyone seem to miss the crucial difference that eSports are currently in a different spot and that while OP is right, for EG and other organisation the behaviour of Slasher doesn't help? It only creates a negative mindset in the community, where we're working hard to grow yet let people hinder that growth for their own profit.
Journalist or not, you're ought to adapt to that which you report on.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: For Alex, his biggest mistake was just announcing it publicly. If you quietly blacklist Slasher, then most people would just assume Slasher is bad at getting content. "No comment" would've saved them this mess.
It's a bit ironic that Alex did more harm than good for his own cause. Although considering the SlayerS practice boycott (I'm still unsure how real that was outside of the first month) eventually came to light, it makes one wonder if a silent blacklist against Slasher would have been outed eventually, perhaps creating an even bigger scandal.
Everybody who makes a post like this is missing the point that it is well within EG's rights to refuse to give Slasher information. Free press does not mean a right to have everybody tell you everything they know, and EG can withhold whatever information they want.
Slasher screws over organizations like EG and TL? Then expect EG and TL to be a lot less helpful when Slasher comes around looking for the inside scoop. It's as simple as that.
It's ridiculous to me that people are acting like blacklisting Slasher for cutting directly into team revenue is some kind of nefarious act. The kind of journalism that Slasher produces is harmful to e-sports teams. Therefore progaming teams are likely to get fed up with him and prefer giving their information to other sources.
On January 17 2013 05:31 Kishin2 wrote: Alex is seeing things from a business perspective. Rod is seeing things from a journalistic point of view. However, both Alex and Rod, I would expect, have a common interest of expanding the e-sports scene. Alex does this by generating revenue from areas outside e-sports. Rod does this by obtaining publicity on the scene. Because slasher published information preemptively, Alex generates less revenue for himself and thus, e-sports. The real issue I see isn't the decision to report on news, but the presumed interest of both parties to grow e-sports and one party opting for a decision that seemingly goes against that common interest. Is slasher's journalistic integrity greater than his interest in growing the e-sports scene in this case?
To answer your question, yes. If Slasher wants to be a journalist, not just the SC2 journalist, then his own decision on when to break (or not) a news story comes before anything esports related.
If esports can't survive because its business model revolves around secrecy then it has one of two choices. A) get everyone to keep quiet and don't leak anything ever, or B) close up shop and move on. My guess is neither is a realistic option, and the business model can survive quite well if the companies surrounding it were smarter.
Any actual journalist has no responsibility to anything other than the story. Every good journalist will know where the line is drawn to maximize both exclusives and scoops, but the notion of needing to work a certain way "for esports" is a ridiculous notion.
The only one who would be able to actually answer my question is slasher himself.
Is it really a ridiculous notion in this case? Everyone working in a prominent in e-sports knows one another. Rod and Alex know each other. Him breaking the story isn't just him as a journalist releasing information, it's him betraying the trust of a friend, Alex. Why did he make this decision? Alex asked slasher this on ITG. Slasher did not respond as to why he did it but only that he has the right to, and he does. There's no debating that he has the right to do so. But why did he release it even though he knew it would detriment another organization within e-sports? That is the question. Everyone is speaking for Rod in the journalistic perspective but we don't actually know his true intention.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: For Alex, his biggest mistake was just announcing it publicly. If you quietly blacklist Slasher, then most people would just assume Slasher is bad at getting content. "No comment" would've saved them this mess.
It's a bit ironic that Alex did more harm than good for his own cause. Although considering the SlayerS practice boycott (I'm still unsure how real that was outside of the first month) eventually came to light, it makes one wonder if a silent blacklist against Slasher would have been outed eventually, perhaps creating an even bigger scandal.
Everybody who makes a post like this is missing the point that it is well within EG's rights to refuse to give Slasher information. Free press does not mean a right to have everybody tell you everything they know, and EG can withhold whatever information they want.
Slasher screws over organizations like EG and TL? Then expect EG and TL to be a lot less helpful when Slasher comes around looking for the inside scoop. It's as simple as that.
It's ridiculous to me that people are acting like blacklisting Slasher for cutting directly into team revenue is some kind of nefarious act. The kind of journalism that Slasher produces is harmful to e-sports teams. Therefore progaming teams are likely to get fed up with him and prefer giving their information to other sources.
How can you possibly get upset about that?
You missed the entire point of my post, which was in the first line. The rest was simply mentioning how secrets have a way of being outed eventually.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
There is no question Slasher is alienating some industry members, especially those that openly stated it. But to say "if he had taken this offer or that offer, he'll get a better paycheck" is a tad speculative. Neither you, nor EG, nor me have access to Rod's metrics. Or Gamespot's. Or Rod's evaluation of performance or his personal economics. You may be right. Or not. Can you really give an educated estimate on his profits if he had taken option X or Y? Or would be the person best suited to judge how much certain deals would have benefited Rod, be Rod himself?
This doesn't exempt him from misjudging. But at the very least, he has far more accurate access on relevant numbers.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
I think what he meant is that Alex stated on ITG that he was willing to cooperate with Slasher. Slasher would get first dibs on an interview with EG's players (after PL, iirc) on the condition that Slasher does not prematurely release news. It is implied that they both informally agreed to this as it is mutual beneficial. However, Slasher, for an unknown reason,did not follow through on meeting with Alex to get said interviews. Slasher's response to Alex was that he had already done that type of work before, interviews and such.
On January 17 2013 03:03 Jibba wrote: For Alex, his biggest mistake was just announcing it publicly. If you quietly blacklist Slasher, then most people would just assume Slasher is bad at getting content. "No comment" would've saved them this mess.
It's a bit ironic that Alex did more harm than good for his own cause. Although considering the SlayerS practice boycott (I'm still unsure how real that was outside of the first month) eventually came to light, it makes one wonder if a silent blacklist against Slasher would have been outed eventually, perhaps creating an even bigger scandal.
Everybody who makes a post like this is missing the point that it is well within EG's rights to refuse to give Slasher information. Free press does not mean a right to have everybody tell you everything they know, and EG can withhold whatever information they want.
Slasher screws over organizations like EG and TL? Then expect EG and TL to be a lot less helpful when Slasher comes around looking for the inside scoop. It's as simple as that.
It's ridiculous to me that people are acting like blacklisting Slasher for cutting directly into team revenue is some kind of nefarious act. The kind of journalism that Slasher produces is harmful to e-sports teams. Therefore progaming teams are likely to get fed up with him and prefer giving their information to other sources.
How can you possibly get upset about that?
You missed the entire point of my post, which was in the first line. The rest was simply mentioning how secrets have a way of being outed eventually.
You said "it makes one wonder if a silent blacklist against Slasher would have been outed eventually, perhaps creating an even bigger scandal."
To which I would reply: a blacklist against Slasher is well within the rights of an e-sports organization. They don't have to give anybody information that they don't want to, and they will naturally prefer not to give it to the guy who is sabotaging their sources of revenue.
Therefore my question stands: how could you possibly get upset about a blacklist against Slasher?
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
esport model sucks hard if teams rely on doing journalist job to get revenue. Surprisingly the only esport league that has a real longevity uses a similar model to most sport: a real lengthy league and huge sponsors.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
EG and TL do this release that they just did instead of Slasher breaking it. Tons of excitement. Lots of hits. Slasher does the interviews with Nazgul, Alex, Jaedong, Stephano, Taeja. Slasher gets tons of views that come from the better hype that Eg and TL were able to provide. Both sides profit. Pretty simple.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
esport model sucks hard if teams rely on doing journalist job to get revenue. Surprisingly the only esport league that has a real longevity uses a similar model to most sport: a real lengthy league and huge sponsors.
You act like it is EG's choice to not have coke give them a million a month in sponsorship. Don't be ignorant. EG is doing what they can to succeed and they are one of the healthiest and wealthiest teams in SC2. They do this by generating lots of excitement and clicks etc. They do not have the option of being like the professional sports teams. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to do so if the business model was possible.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
EG and TL do this release that they just did instead of Slasher breaking it. Tons of excitement. Lots of hits. TL/EG does the interviews with Nazgul, Alex, Jaedong, Stephano, Taeja because money is cool. TL/EG gets tons of views that come from the better hype that Eg and TL were able to provide. TL/EG profit. Pretty simple.
fixed that for the real world. you don't share what you can keep exclusive lol.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
esport model sucks hard if teams rely on doing journalist job to get revenue. Surprisingly the only esport league that has a real longevity uses a similar model to most sport: a real lengthy league and huge sponsors.
You act like it is EG's choice to not have coke give them a million a month in sponsorship. Don't be ignorant. EG is doing what they can to succeed and they are one of the healthiest and wealthiest teams in SC2. They do this by generating lots of excitement and clicks etc. They do not have the option of being like the professional sports teams. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to do so if the business model was possible.
some EG guys were involved in the NASL which was supposed to be the big western thing, ended in up a big failure at the beginning to stabilize pretty well later on but there is still no real league that would stabilize teams. Hence sc2 model in the west is pretty bad, while LoL is actually stepping up in the right direction (riot gives the money and control things, but KeSPA show that control isn't bad when you've to develop and stabilize a scene. In an overall amateurish scene you don't whine because someone gets money you "should" get. You don't whine at all toward a journalist doing its work if you're not a moron.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
EG and TL do this release that they just did instead of Slasher breaking it. Tons of excitement. Lots of hits. TL/EG does the interviews with Nazgul, Alex, Jaedong, Stephano, Taeja because money is cool. TL/EG gets tons of views that come from the better hype that Eg and TL were able to provide. TL/EG profit. Pretty simple.
fixed that for the real world. you don't share what you can keep exclusive lol.
Or they both work together because Slasher has the things that he can do well and are his job. He has inside info but works with them in some cases instead of always spilling the beans. Shocking how it can work.
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
EG and TL do this release that they just did instead of Slasher breaking it. Tons of excitement. Lots of hits. TL/EG does the interviews with Nazgul, Alex, Jaedong, Stephano, Taeja because money is cool. TL/EG gets tons of views that come from the better hype that Eg and TL were able to provide. TL/EG profit. Pretty simple.
fixed that for the real world. you don't share what you can keep exclusive lol.
Or they both work together because Slasher has the things that he can do well and are his job. He has inside info but works with them in some cases instead of always spilling the beans. Shocking how it can work.
TL/EG have people who can do the interview, doing an interview doesn't require enough skill that someone can profite from the exclusivity of this competence lol. The relationships are the main asset of every journalist, and esport ain't an exeption. You're not good because you've awesome writing/interviewing skills.
I think this whole argument is dumb and pointless, for the following reasons.
1) Alex said it was impossible to prevent such leaks.
Alex Garfield stated that he felt that it was impossible to prevent leaks such as if you're in a bidding war over a player and the other team leaks the information, that is something you have no control over. I personally don't completely believe that, I feel like you could have the teams in question sign NDAs before the process began or something similar, but for the sake of this point we will accept Alex's statement.
2) There is a market for the information, and if Slasher doesn't report it someone else will.
If Alex, by some miracle of god, manages to convince Slasher to only work with him and embargo the information in exchange for rights etc. then congratulations to him, he will have earned himself a brief respite until someone else figures out that there is still a huge market for this information that is leaking out of an apparently unplug-able hole. The information is literally money, and companies have to protect it, or someone will come along and pick it up off the street. And then Alex can cry about it if he wants, I guess.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
esport model sucks hard if teams rely on doing journalist job to get revenue. Surprisingly the only esport league that has a real longevity uses a similar model to most sport: a real lengthy league and huge sponsors.
Right! Huge sponsors are EXACTLY how traditional sports work. Where would the Home Depot Yankees be if not for their title sponsor? And how would the Atlanta Coca-Cola Falcons have succeeded this season if not for the support of their title sponsor?
And you're correct - relying on doing "journalist job" to get revenue is not a good way to run a team of any kind. But announcing your new assets when you are an e-sports team is not a journalist's job - it is a chance to give your sponsors exposure. And when a journalist steals that chance to give your sponsors exposure, he is directly sabotaging your ability to recruit sponsors in the future.
The first step to getting your head straight on this controversy is to stop thinking about e-sports as baseball and to start thinking of it from the perspective of teams trying to make money. When you understand that, you'll understand why Alex Garfield and Nazgul are mad at Slasher.
And then all you have to do is understand that "freedom of press" does not mean "freedom from being blacklisted for screwing teams over all the time" and you'll have your head wrapped around the whole thing!
On January 17 2013 06:29 bayaka wrote: The journalistic standards for big sports and esports should not be the same (for the time being.) Slasher is trying to be a "I am a protector of truth and justice" journalist when in actuality he isn't putting in any of the effort required for that, he is merely claiming to stand by his journalistic code in order to be able to shirk any sense of responsibility for doing things like leaking news before the teams release it.
Leaking the Jaedong/Stephano information beforehand I can see having minimal repercussions, but leaking the Snute example no doubt hurt that announcement/player. I don't buy Slasher's argument that he is anything other than a parasite at this point. To the people who say that he is doing his job, if my job was to screw people over, would it not still be screwing people over? And by that logic, where is all of the hate for Alex Garfield coming from? I appreciate Slasher's work otherwise, and I understand that that is what journalism calls for, but I don't think that journalism of this kind is helpful at all right now. Slasher's job only exists because esports exists, and as of now he is just undermining the people he should be helping out. I understand journalism is different from being a publicist, but what "real" journalism is he actually doing at the moment? It seems as though he is aiming for quantity over quality, and maybe that's his job, but that makes him a tabloid/paparazi style journalist...
you call that parasitic, but at the end of the day the goal is for everyone to get a paycheck. the whole issue is about how much of the current limited pie gets allocated to what party. Slasher is not leeching off teams more than teams leeching off the cheap publicity they get from online communities.
we, the audience are accustomed to the status quo that content of any kind is freely available. what exactly do TL writers get as compensation for their work? it is expected of Slasher to get the scoops out on the field, doing editorial work, providing in-depth interviews and articles (so-called "quality" work), yet it's suddenly horrible of him to look out for himself.
the recent incident is all but a sign of the natural struggle for resources. and yes, it is a give and take.
"we give you X and you give us Y"
but every time such ramblings surface, it's the parties fighting over ground. Slasher very well might have jeopardized his relations, he may have been too greedy the last couple of times. or, the current quid-pro-quo between the organizations, teams and media is no longer felt appropriate by one of the parties. just like player contracts are re-evaluated after each term. Slasher breaking the news can be him hunting for pageviews or spotlight. or, there were insufficient incentives for him to keep quiet. EG may have offered him deals they deemed appropriate. or, what they offered was not enough.
of course, given the small amount of cash available in our space, prioritization is a valid point. but undoubtedly every time it comes to distributing the cake, every party involved will tend to overstate their importance and downplay that of others. it is healthy to ask ourselves how much everyone's contributions is worth, and should be compensated for it.
if that means, we want or don't want to finance full-time journalism so be it. but no one is at fault for trying to reserve their share. Slasher may find out that no one will be willing to agree to his terms. EG might find other people to fit their needs and agree to their offerings. or not. but no one, Slasher nor EG should be surprised that current power-lines are under constant contention.
Slasher could get a bigger and better paycheque if he worked together with the teams and was able to get things like exclusive first interviews on these deals rather than releasing short badly written "Stepahno joined EG" type comments. I wrote a much bigger piece earlier in this thread but meh. Slasher imo is not doing what is best for him and he is obviously alienating people who he has to get along with to a certain extent if he wants to be successful.
How would Slasher get a bigger paycheque unless EG was giving him money (bribing) to delay his story. He has a salary from Gamespot and he has to meet quotas/deadlines.
I think what he meant is that Alex stated on ITG that he was willing to cooperate with Slasher. Slasher would get first dibs on an interview with EG's players (after PL, iirc) on the condition that Slasher does not prematurely release news. It is implied that they both informally agreed to this as it is mutual beneficial. However, Slasher, for an unknown reason,did not follow through on meeting with Alex to get said interviews. Slasher's response to Alex was that he had already done that type of work before, interviews and such.
What I meant is, that there is a possibility that Slasher miscalculated. Or the equal possibility, that what EG offered to Slasher was not enough. I have currently little time to attend to the thread, but my basic outline would be following:
There is distinction in what a party
1) can offer 2) tries to offer 3) deems worthy of an offer
So if you take two sides, the rift between negotiation partners stems from a difference in the combination of those 3 points. i.e.
Scenario A EG
1) can offer X 2) tries to get away with Y 3) deems Z as realistic
Slasher 1) thinks EG is capable to offer A 2) tries to get B 3) deems C as realistic
So, there is plenty of room for mismatches in every potential scenario.
My point is, that the mere fact one side offered something doesn't mean a deal is to be completed. And, lots of room for either side to misjudge. Just wanted to portray my impression that the whole thing is only the process of power-struggle and each side trying to get the best out of it
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
esport model sucks hard if teams rely on doing journalist job to get revenue. Surprisingly the only esport league that has a real longevity uses a similar model to most sport: a real lengthy league and huge sponsors.
Right! Huge sponsors are EXACTLY how traditional sports work. Where would the Home Depot Yankees be if not for their title sponsor? And how would the Atlanta Coca-Cola Falcons have succeeded this season if not for the support of their title sponsor?
And you're correct - relying on doing "journalist job" to get revenue is not a good way to run a team of any kind. But announcing your new assets when you are an e-sports team is not a journalist's job - it is a chance to give your sponsors exposure. And when a journalist steals that chance to give your sponsors exposure, he is directly sabotaging your ability to recruit sponsors in the future.
The first step to getting your head straight on this controversy is to stop thinking about e-sports as baseball and to start thinking of it from the perspective of teams trying to make money. When you understand that, you'll understand why Alex Garfield and Nazgul are mad at Slasher.
And then all you have to do is understand that "freedom of press" does not mean "freedom from being blacklisted for screwing teams over all the time" and you'll have your head wrapped around the whole thing!
I love cheering for the home depot yankees! It is a pity EG has said no to the billion dollar sponsorship offer from Pampers. We could be cheering for the EG Pampers Diapaers all stars!
Garfield's wrong here. If you don't want a journalist reporting your top secret news, perhaps he should be focusing on leaks within his organisation and trying to patch them up.
Slasher is doing his job. EG needs better PR staff or a plumber.
With the motivations at hand here, driven by the need to simply make a living - blackballing is not the answer.
This is probably never going to be exposed, but on what level has the investigation reached? I can absolutely see the reasons discussed by all sides, and the anger resulting as well. Still begs the question - how exactly was this information leaked? Who leaked it? IMO, this is quite possibly the most important thing to nail down and addressed immediately.
If it's true that the information was gathered from a stream, due to players inadvertently communicating with their friends - then could this not be identified? Let's imagine for a moment that Alex sat every single EG member down, posed the question "We had an information leak. Who among us leaked?". Of course this would be a very uncomfortable situation but EG has strong enough bonds to stay together, regardless of the leaker, are they not?
With information literally worth X number of dollars, I personally cannot vilify someone who came across said info(whether it be discovered informally or even by accident) and then going ahead to broadcast that.
The problem is, Slasher isn't the 'enemy' here, so to speak.
Perhaps orgs like EG and TL could be a bit more proactive in using Slasher and other e-sports journos as part of their communications strategies.
Simply raging at and blaming a journo for stealing your thunder is ridiculous (especially when Slasher is just doing his job as a responsible journalist). Slasher isn't the problem here: the communications strategies of EG and TL are (and I say this with all due respect).
Rather than raging at the journos, perhaps they could look into how they can work with them in future when it comes to player movements like this.
Excellent blog. I agree 100%. If EG didn't want the info leaked and potentially exploited, that is their responsibility. Slasher's leaks were not putting any lives in danger, and should not have warranted the reaction from Mr. Garfield that he gave.
E-Sports doesn't need special treatment. It doesn't need to be a special case in which journalists hold back so teams can get more revenue due to traffic.
E-Sports needs to evolve and grow around this, as a real, profitable industry.
I think one of the temptations people have when it comes to the recently controversial subject of journalism is to compare the e-sports industry to the broader sports industry. This is a very simplistic view that misses out on a lot of important differences. In a lot of ways, StarCraft II teams and baseball teams couldn't be more different.
Bill Baer, an ESPN sportswriter, recently posted on TL to lend his thoughts to the discussion about the Slasher controversy. I decided to respond with a post of my own because I disagreed quite strongly with Mr. Baer on a variety of points.
There was one line in particular in Bill's piece that struck me as missing the point. Here it is:
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret
There is a reason that baseball teams don't object to having their secrets spilled. The reason is that their sources of income are completely insulated from such breaches. According to New York Magazine, the revenue of the New York Yankees can be broken down as follows:
Sources of Revenue: Stadium tickets: $117 million (4.2 million tickets at an average of $28 each); YES network TV/radio rights: $60 million; Major League TV and licensing: $30 million; concessions: $10 million; sponsorships and advertising: $30 million; premium seating: $27 million; local radio: $13 million; catering: $5 million; other: $10 million.
The introduction of a new player for a team like the Yankees has absolutely no potential to make them any money directly. It has the potential to make money indirectly, for instance by encouraging people to buy tickets to see a new player play. But how the announcement is made doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the team's revenue. This is why, as Baer notes, baseball teams are happy to let journalists do the hype-building and announcements:
And yet, when the Phillies finally signed Lee on the 15th, it wasn't the Phillies who broke the news; it was journalist Jon Heyman, then with Sports Illustrated. Heyman's reporting did nothing to reduce the hype around the signing; Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site. In fact, it was never an issue.
Here, Baer unwittingly highlights the key difference between traditional sports and E-Sports that invalidates a good portion of his argument. "Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site," because Amaro knew that pageviews on the Phillies web site represented an infinitesimally small portion of his team's revenue and, by extension, his own paycheck.
That's not how a team like EG or TL works.
E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
I really dont understand, its slashers job to report what he was doing was well within his right and he needed to do it to write papers to make money even if it wasnt the best thing he could do. its still his job to do it
With E-Sports teams depending primarily on both content production and publication/media attention, does that mean any secondary publication agencies only count toward competition. Or is there only a cross section of content that both sides stand to monetarily benefit from releasing?
After looking up the NFL, they too depend on media attention but, it's just a much smaller slice of the pie. So the cross section of competing media attention is just much larger for E-Sports teams and surrounding media. Alex just needs to accept that some media publication is large portion of the teams incom and therefore competition for media sites. If you drop a 100$ bill next to a friend (Slasher also cares deeply about E-Sports) that is still competing for success, he has an obligation to pick it up.
I think that there has to be a balance. When people apply the real-world business consequences of markets to a fledgling industry like esports, it's likely to hurt it. That's what happened with the case of EG vs Rod Breasleu. Real-world market principals were applied and it had some negative affect. Will esports die because of it? Absolutely not. Is this a one-for-one exchange where esfiworld (or wherever it was reported) took the revenue that EG would have received on this matter? Perhaps not.
In conclusion, I think this whole episode had a relatively small negative impact on the industry of esports. And that's the point I think we should all take from it. It's relatively minor - but it's a net loss.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote: I think one of the temptations people have when it comes to the recently controversial subject of journalism is to compare the e-sports industry to the broader sports industry. This is a very simplistic view that misses out on a lot of important differences. In a lot of ways, StarCraft II teams and baseball teams couldn't be more different.
Bill Baer, an ESPN sportswriter, recently posted on TL to lend his thoughts to the discussion about the Slasher controversy. I decided to respond with a post of my own because I disagreed quite strongly with Mr. Baer on a variety of points.
There was one line in particular in Bill's piece that struck me as missing the point. Here it is:
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret
There is a reason that baseball teams don't object to having their secrets spilled. The reason is that their sources of income are completely insulated from such breaches. According to New York Magazine, the revenue of the New York Yankees can be broken down as follows:
Sources of Revenue: Stadium tickets: $117 million (4.2 million tickets at an average of $28 each); YES network TV/radio rights: $60 million; Major League TV and licensing: $30 million; concessions: $10 million; sponsorships and advertising: $30 million; premium seating: $27 million; local radio: $13 million; catering: $5 million; other: $10 million.
The introduction of a new player for a team like the Yankees has absolutely no potential to make them any money directly. It has the potential to make money indirectly, for instance by encouraging people to buy tickets to see a new player play. But how the announcement is made doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the team's revenue. This is why, as Baer notes, baseball teams are happy to let journalists do the hype-building and announcements:
And yet, when the Phillies finally signed Lee on the 15th, it wasn't the Phillies who broke the news; it was journalist Jon Heyman, then with Sports Illustrated. Heyman's reporting did nothing to reduce the hype around the signing; Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site. In fact, it was never an issue.
Here, Baer unwittingly highlights the key difference between traditional sports and E-Sports that invalidates a good portion of his argument. "Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site," because Amaro knew that pageviews on the Phillies web site represented an infinitesimally small portion of his team's revenue and, by extension, his own paycheck.
That's not how a team like EG or TL works.
E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
I think Slasher has an obligation to report the news. Yes it's important for Slasher to have a good relationship with his sources, but it's also a two-way street. TL and EG can throw a hissy fit and black-ban Slasher from any future inside gossip, rumour, tips etc but would it really be in their interest? Relationships are always a two-way street and I think it would be silly of EG and TL to do something silly like completely removing themselves from any dealings with Slasher. It has a lot of potential to bite them in the ass down the line.
This is just my opinion, but I'd rather see both organisations--two of the premiere in the SC2 international e-sports world--use it as a learning experience as to how they might better engage with the e-sports media in the future to stop things like this happening. I'd hope there'd be scope to sit down with Slasher, explain their take on the issue and maybe work with eachother towards a mutually beneficial arrangement in the future.
It's much easier to make friends than create enemies. I can understand the frustration of losing out on the promotion of their own news but lashing out at the messenger (Slasher) is not the right option. Take it as a learning opportunity and implement strategies in the future to mitigate risks around significant announcements relating to your team.
I personally don't understand why this is even an argument. It seems like the vocal minority who think that Slasher did anything wrong are the same people that directly benefit from the "growing of esports". Esports isn't going to grow on your terms, it's either going to naturally evolve like every other sport, or it's going to just die.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
It comes with being a mostly online space, where pageviews are one of the few only available metric. The team owner's notion is that this projected -yet to happen- traffic was reserved for them from the beginning.
The question would be whether teams and organizations ought to adhere to common competition. As long as the information is not illegally obtained, they have lost. Not money, but the race and thus the money. While the information is not yet out there, said traffic also isn't, and therefore cannot be owned by anybody. There is no reason to believe the teams wouldn't profit more without leaks, but the conception that they were entitled to these profits per se is questionable.
Now, given the state of the industry, there are valid considerations of self-regulation, growth-inducing strategies or even protectionism. There are arguments to be made for the well-being of teams. Of course any team is well within its rights to advocate their cause and they should do it. But one has to acknowledge the existence of other involved parties and whose interests might not be inherently more or less significant.
At least myself, I have no idea which way to prioritize who. But I do believe that no party is wrong in pushing their interests in and itself, and it's much more complicated than "whatever hurts party X in any way is bad".
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
I think there is little contention on this part. Do note however, that there really aren't that much dedicated rumor sites in e-sports, except of maybe Rakaka. What specific course of action to take is ultimately every side's own decision. I think everyone involved is well aware of the possible ramifications whichever way they'll go (and have gone).
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
It seems, Rod is testing grounds. He may have disgruntled some. But given responses even from other team owner's, the rift might not be that severe. There is possibility he misjudged the extent of how far he's able to go, but as human relationships are not black and white friction is bound to happen. I don't know whether you intended to imply he's a bad journalist by contrasting it to what makes a good one- but it's a little disingenuous to imply that the very best have only made friends along their way.
Why was The_Stampede banned for his post? He added to the discussion, so I can only assume its because a mod personally disagreed with his opinion. Is saying Alex Garfield acted idiotically ban worthy?
I think most people discussing this are focusing too much on the first issue argued in ITG and not the second. I don't think Slasher is technically in the wrong with his methods. If he has some news that he thinks should be spread, as a journalist, that's what he will do. My issue, and iNcontroL and TB commented on it as well, is that Slasher puts zero effort into these releases. He COULD get that juicy interview if he held out longer, he COULD be the first with player access at an event, but he prefers the one-liner repeated-byline stories. As TB and Garfield both observed, it just seems like Slasher is being deliberately lazy in his journalism. They both know he can do better, has done better even, and they're disappointed with the route he has chosen.
I love this piece. It shows that E-Sports is still growing. Soon maybe to become Major, but as the blogger tweeted "if esports can't handle legitimate journalism, it doesn't deserve to prosper." that statement SHOWS how much things have grown. Alex just needs to start learning from his mistakes than to turn the public opinion on Slasher.
Whenever EG pulls this kind of drama (mostly off ITG). I just stop watching anyone associated with EG for a while, but drama always dies down. and I hope EG learns and moves on instead of whining and making everyone hate one person. I support Slasher, he is a really good guy, please dont go away.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
It comes with being a mostly online space, where pageviews are one of the few only available metric. The team owner's notion is that this projected -yet to happen- traffic was reserved for them from the beginning.
The question would be whether teams and organizations ought to adhere to common competition. As long as the information is not illegally obtained, they have lost. Not money, but the race and thus the money. While the information is not yet out there, said traffic also isn't, and therefore cannot be owned by anybody. There is no reason to believe the teams wouldn't profit more without leaks, but the conception that they were entitled to these profits per se is questionable.
Now, given the state of the industry, there are valid considerations of self-regulation, growth-inducing strategies or even protectionism. There are arguments to be made for the well-being of teams. Of course any team is well within its rights to advocate their cause and they should do it. But one has to acknowledge the existence of other involved parties and whose interests might not be inherently more or less significant.
At least myself, I have no idea which way to prioritize who. But I do believe that no party is wrong in pushing their interests in and itself, and it's much more complicated than "whatever hurts party X in any way is bad".
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
I think there is little contention on this part. Do note however, that there really aren't that much dedicated rumor sites in e-sports, except of maybe Rakaka. What specific course of action to take is ultimately every side's own decision. I think everyone involved is well aware of the possible ramifications whichever way they'll go (and have gone).
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
It seems, Rod is testing grounds. He may have disgruntled some. But given responses even from other team owner's, the rift might not be that severe. There is possibility he misjudged the extent of how far he's able to go, but as human relationships are not black and white friction is bound to happen. I don't know whether you intended to imply he's a bad journalist by contrasting it to what makes a good one- but it's a little disingenuous to imply that the very best have only made friends along their way.
Hey thanks for the thoughtful reply!
I don't think there's anything wrong with Slasher posting spoilers from an ethical perspective. Slasher can post spoilers all he wants, he has every right to, and he can still consider himself a good journalist if that's what he does. He's getting views and looking out for his own interests and that's all well and good.
But he can't expect teams to keep giving him interviews and information if that's the kind of journalist he decides to become.
My post was designed to address two views that I consider misconceptions. Both of these misconceptions have been brought up in this thread's comments, as well as on r/starcraft and so on:
Misconception #1: Alex Garfield had no right to be mad at Slasher.
Alex Garfield had every right to be pissed at Slasher. Slasher has, time and time again, with full knowledge of the consequences of his actions, sabotaged EG's launch announcements and therefore EG's ability to appeal to sponsors in the future.
What Baer seems to suggest in this thread's original post is that because team owners in baseball don't get mad about spoilers, team owners in StarCraft II also shouldn't get mad about spoilers. Thus a major thrust of my post was to explain the differences between baseball and e-sports that make this comparison invalid.
Misconception #2: Alex Garfield was out of line when he called for a black-list of Slasher.
Anybody who thinks EG doesn't have a right to black-list somebody hasn't thought things through very well.
I believe you agree with me on this point. What information EG chooses to give Slasher is completely up to them. If Slasher screws over e-sports organizations, they are less likely to help out Slasher in the future, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just how things work.
Like I said, a good journalist knows to maintain a good relationship with his sources. Slasher's sources are clearly not teams like EG and TL, and therefore he has not maintained a good relationship with them. That was his choice, made consciously, and the consequence of this choice may be that he has more trouble in the future working through official channels, for instance to get interviews with EG or TL players. Hopefully he's maintaining good relationships with the inside sources who provide the meat for most of his "inside scoop" stories — because if he alienates all the e-sports organizations, those secret inside sources will be all he'll have left.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote: I think one of the temptations people have when it comes to the recently controversial subject of journalism is to compare the e-sports industry to the broader sports industry. This is a very simplistic view that misses out on a lot of important differences. In a lot of ways, StarCraft II teams and baseball teams couldn't be more different.
Bill Baer, an ESPN sportswriter, recently posted on TL to lend his thoughts to the discussion about the Slasher controversy. I decided to respond with a post of my own because I disagreed quite strongly with Mr. Baer on a variety of points.
There was one line in particular in Bill's piece that struck me as missing the point. Here it is:
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret
There is a reason that baseball teams don't object to having their secrets spilled. The reason is that their sources of income are completely insulated from such breaches. According to New York Magazine, the revenue of the New York Yankees can be broken down as follows:
Sources of Revenue: Stadium tickets: $117 million (4.2 million tickets at an average of $28 each); YES network TV/radio rights: $60 million; Major League TV and licensing: $30 million; concessions: $10 million; sponsorships and advertising: $30 million; premium seating: $27 million; local radio: $13 million; catering: $5 million; other: $10 million.
The introduction of a new player for a team like the Yankees has absolutely no potential to make them any money directly. It has the potential to make money indirectly, for instance by encouraging people to buy tickets to see a new player play. But how the announcement is made doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the team's revenue. This is why, as Baer notes, baseball teams are happy to let journalists do the hype-building and announcements:
And yet, when the Phillies finally signed Lee on the 15th, it wasn't the Phillies who broke the news; it was journalist Jon Heyman, then with Sports Illustrated. Heyman's reporting did nothing to reduce the hype around the signing; Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site. In fact, it was never an issue.
Here, Baer unwittingly highlights the key difference between traditional sports and E-Sports that invalidates a good portion of his argument. "Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site," because Amaro knew that pageviews on the Phillies web site represented an infinitesimally small portion of his team's revenue and, by extension, his own paycheck.
That's not how a team like EG or TL works.
E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
I think Slasher has an obligation to report the news. Yes it's important for Slasher to have a good relationship with his sources, but it's also a two-way street. TL and EG can throw a hissy fit and black-ban Slasher from any future inside gossip, rumour, tips etc but would it really be in their interest? Relationships are always a two-way street and I think it would be silly of EG and TL to do something silly like completely removing themselves from any dealings with Slasher. It has a lot of potential to bite them in the ass down the line.
This is just my opinion, but I'd rather see both organisations--two of the premiere in the SC2 international e-sports world--use it as a learning experience as to how they might better engage with the e-sports media in the future to stop things like this happening. I'd hope there'd be scope to sit down with Slasher, explain their take on the issue and maybe work with eachother towards a mutually beneficial arrangement in the future.
It's much easier to make friends than create enemies. I can understand the frustration of losing out on the promotion of their own news but lashing out at the messenger (Slasher) is not the right option. Take it as a learning opportunity and implement strategies in the future to mitigate risks around significant announcements relating to your team.
If Slasher is going to lose them money (and himself indirectly) then it is purely in TL and EG's interests to not work with him in the slightest. Slasher needs to realize that this is not pro sports and that he has to maintain his relationships with teams and that those relationships involve him not hurting their major sources of income.
He can still profit in other ways with his insider info. I believe Alex said that he offered him exclusive interviewing rights which Slasher never took him up on.
What do you think Slasher gets more off of? Him breaking the news in a poor manner with no analysis and say... 50k people see it and go clicking on TL/EG and maybe a few on his site.
Or putting out the info just after TL and EG do and they get maybe 80-100k people viewing things with better hype and he does analysis and then gets one of a kind interviews the next day to put out when the hype is at it's strongest. He then profits from those extra people wanting to see his interviews.
Not only does it benefit him in that way but now EG and TL are happy with him and might even give him some future stories if he does a good job. They can work together now. Slasher didn't lose them money, EG and TL make their sponsors happy and get more money from them possibly, and both sides benefit more than the other way.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
It comes with being a mostly online space, where pageviews are one of the few only available metric. The team owner's notion is that this projected -yet to happen- traffic was reserved for them from the beginning.
The question would be whether teams and organizations ought to adhere to common competition. As long as the information is not illegally obtained, they have lost. Not money, but the race and thus the money. While the information is not yet out there, said traffic also isn't, and therefore cannot be owned by anybody. There is no reason to believe the teams wouldn't profit more without leaks, but the conception that they were entitled to these profits per se is questionable.
Now, given the state of the industry, there are valid considerations of self-regulation, growth-inducing strategies or even protectionism. There are arguments to be made for the well-being of teams. Of course any team is well within its rights to advocate their cause and they should do it. But one has to acknowledge the existence of other involved parties and whose interests might not be inherently more or less significant.
At least myself, I have no idea which way to prioritize who. But I do believe that no party is wrong in pushing their interests in and itself, and it's much more complicated than "whatever hurts party X in any way is bad".
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
I think there is little contention on this part. Do note however, that there really aren't that much dedicated rumor sites in e-sports, except of maybe Rakaka. What specific course of action to take is ultimately every side's own decision. I think everyone involved is well aware of the possible ramifications whichever way they'll go (and have gone).
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
It seems, Rod is testing grounds. He may have disgruntled some. But given responses even from other team owner's, the rift might not be that severe. There is possibility he misjudged the extent of how far he's able to go, but as human relationships are not black and white friction is bound to happen. I don't know whether you intended to imply he's a bad journalist by contrasting it to what makes a good one- but it's a little disingenuous to imply that the very best have only made friends along their way.
Hey thanks for the thoughtful reply!
I don't think there's anything wrong with Slasher posting spoilers from an ethical perspective. Slasher can post spoilers all he wants, he has every right to, and he can still consider himself a good journalist if that's what he does. He's getting views and looking out for his own interests and that's all well and good.
But he can't expect teams to keep giving him interviews and information if that's the kind of journalist he decides to become.
My post was designed to address two views that I consider misconceptions. Both of these misconceptions have been brought up in this thread's comments, as well as on r/starcraft and so on:
Misconception #1: Alex Garfield had no right to be mad at Slasher.
Alex Garfield had every right to be pissed at Slasher. Slasher has, time and time again, with full knowledge of the consequences of his actions, sabotaged EG's launch announcements and therefore EG's ability to appeal to sponsors in the future.
What Baer seems to suggest in this thread's original post is that because team owners in baseball don't get mad about spoilers, team owners in StarCraft II also shouldn't get mad about spoilers. Thus a major thrust of my post was to explain the differences between baseball and e-sports that make this comparison invalid.
Misconception #2: Alex Garfield was out of line when he called for a black-list of Slasher.
Anybody who thinks EG doesn't have a right to black-list somebody hasn't thought things through very well.
I believe you agree with me on this point. What information EG chooses to give Slasher is completely up to them. If Slasher screws over e-sports organizations, they are less likely to help out Slasher in the future, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just how things work.
Like I said, a good journalist knows to maintain a good relationship with his sources. Slasher's sources are clearly not teams like EG and TL, and therefore he has not maintained a good relationship with them. That was his choice, made consciously, and the consequence of this choice may be that he has more trouble in the future working through official channels, for instance to get interviews with EG or TL players. Hopefully he's maintaining good relationships with the inside sources who provide the meat for most of his "inside scoop" stories — because if he alienates all the e-sports organizations, those secret inside sources will be all he'll have left.
I love that TL is so much more unbiased and you can see both sides of things. Reddit is a crap hole of Fuck so and so. Good post. I support Slasher continuing his journalism but I completely get why Nazgul and Alex are pissed and agree with most of what they said. I think Slasher has to realize these differences to improve his own business.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
It comes with being a mostly online space, where pageviews are one of the few only available metric. The team owner's notion is that this projected -yet to happen- traffic was reserved for them from the beginning.
The question would be whether teams and organizations ought to adhere to common competition. As long as the information is not illegally obtained, they have lost. Not money, but the race and thus the money. While the information is not yet out there, said traffic also isn't, and therefore cannot be owned by anybody. There is no reason to believe the teams wouldn't profit more without leaks, but the conception that they were entitled to these profits per se is questionable.
Now, given the state of the industry, there are valid considerations of self-regulation, growth-inducing strategies or even protectionism. There are arguments to be made for the well-being of teams. Of course any team is well within its rights to advocate their cause and they should do it. But one has to acknowledge the existence of other involved parties and whose interests might not be inherently more or less significant.
At least myself, I have no idea which way to prioritize who. But I do believe that no party is wrong in pushing their interests in and itself, and it's much more complicated than "whatever hurts party X in any way is bad".
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
I think there is little contention on this part. Do note however, that there really aren't that much dedicated rumor sites in e-sports, except of maybe Rakaka. What specific course of action to take is ultimately every side's own decision. I think everyone involved is well aware of the possible ramifications whichever way they'll go (and have gone).
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
It seems, Rod is testing grounds. He may have disgruntled some. But given responses even from other team owner's, the rift might not be that severe. There is possibility he misjudged the extent of how far he's able to go, but as human relationships are not black and white friction is bound to happen. I don't know whether you intended to imply he's a bad journalist by contrasting it to what makes a good one- but it's a little disingenuous to imply that the very best have only made friends along their way.
Hey thanks for the thoughtful reply!
I don't think there's anything wrong with Slasher posting spoilers from an ethical perspective. Slasher can post spoilers all he wants, he has every right to, and he can still consider himself a good journalist if that's what he does. He's getting views and looking out for his own interests and that's all well and good.
But he can't expect teams to keep giving him interviews and information if that's the kind of journalist he decides to become.
My post was designed to address two views that I consider misconceptions. Both of these misconceptions have been brought up in this thread's comments, as well as on r/starcraft and so on:
Misconception #1: Alex Garfield had no right to be mad at Slasher.
Alex Garfield had every right to be pissed at Slasher. Slasher has, time and time again, with full knowledge of the consequences of his actions, sabotaged EG's launch announcements and therefore EG's ability to appeal to sponsors in the future.
What Baer seems to suggest in this thread's original post is that because team owners in baseball don't get mad about spoilers, team owners in StarCraft II also shouldn't get mad about spoilers. Thus a major thrust of my post was to explain the differences between baseball and e-sports that make this comparison invalid.
Misconception #2: Alex Garfield was out of line when he called for a black-list of Slasher.
Anybody who thinks EG doesn't have a right to black-list somebody hasn't thought things through very well.
I believe you agree with me on this point. What information EG chooses to give Slasher is completely up to them. If Slasher screws over e-sports organizations, they are less likely to help out Slasher in the future, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just how things work.
Like I said, a good journalist knows to maintain a good relationship with his sources. Slasher's sources are clearly not teams like EG and TL, and therefore he has not maintained a good relationship with them. That was his choice, made consciously, and the consequence of this choice may be that he has more trouble in the future working through official channels, for instance to get interviews with EG or TL players. Hopefully he's maintaining good relationships with the inside sources who provide the meat for most of his "inside scoop" stories — because if he alienates all the e-sports organizations, those secret inside sources will be all he'll have left.
I love that TL is so much more unbiased and you can see both sides of things. Reddit is a crap hole of Fuck so and so. Good post. I support Slasher continuing his journalism but I completely get why Nazgul and Alex are pissed and agree with most of what they said. I think Slasher has to realize these differences to improve his own business.
Sir, you and I may just have had the most reasoned, thoughtful exchange that has occurred on this issue all day xD
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
It comes with being a mostly online space, where pageviews are one of the few only available metric. The team owner's notion is that this projected -yet to happen- traffic was reserved for them from the beginning.
The question would be whether teams and organizations ought to adhere to common competition. As long as the information is not illegally obtained, they have lost. Not money, but the race and thus the money. While the information is not yet out there, said traffic also isn't, and therefore cannot be owned by anybody. There is no reason to believe the teams wouldn't profit more without leaks, but the conception that they were entitled to these profits per se is questionable.
Now, given the state of the industry, there are valid considerations of self-regulation, growth-inducing strategies or even protectionism. There are arguments to be made for the well-being of teams. Of course any team is well within its rights to advocate their cause and they should do it. But one has to acknowledge the existence of other involved parties and whose interests might not be inherently more or less significant.
At least myself, I have no idea which way to prioritize who. But I do believe that no party is wrong in pushing their interests in and itself, and it's much more complicated than "whatever hurts party X in any way is bad".
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
I think there is little contention on this part. Do note however, that there really aren't that much dedicated rumor sites in e-sports, except of maybe Rakaka. What specific course of action to take is ultimately every side's own decision. I think everyone involved is well aware of the possible ramifications whichever way they'll go (and have gone).
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote:Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
It seems, Rod is testing grounds. He may have disgruntled some. But given responses even from other team owner's, the rift might not be that severe. There is possibility he misjudged the extent of how far he's able to go, but as human relationships are not black and white friction is bound to happen. I don't know whether you intended to imply he's a bad journalist by contrasting it to what makes a good one- but it's a little disingenuous to imply that the very best have only made friends along their way.
Hey thanks for the thoughtful reply!
I don't think there's anything wrong with Slasher posting spoilers from an ethical perspective. Slasher can post spoilers all he wants, he has every right to, and he can still consider himself a good journalist if that's what he does. He's getting views and looking out for his own interests and that's all well and good.
But he can't expect teams to keep giving him interviews and information if that's the kind of journalist he decides to become.
My post was designed to address two views that I consider misconceptions. Both of these misconceptions have been brought up in this thread's comments, as well as on r/starcraft and so on:
Misconception #1: Alex Garfield had no right to be mad at Slasher.
Alex Garfield had every right to be pissed at Slasher. Slasher has, time and time again, with full knowledge of the consequences of his actions, sabotaged EG's launch announcements and therefore EG's ability to appeal to sponsors in the future.
What Baer seems to suggest in this thread's original post is that because team owners in baseball don't get mad about spoilers, team owners in StarCraft II also shouldn't get mad about spoilers. Thus a major thrust of my post was to explain the differences between baseball and e-sports that make this comparison invalid.
Misconception #2: Alex Garfield was out of line when he called for a black-list of Slasher.
Anybody who thinks EG doesn't have a right to black-list somebody hasn't thought things through very well.
I believe you agree with me on this point. What information EG chooses to give Slasher is completely up to them. If Slasher screws over e-sports organizations, they are less likely to help out Slasher in the future, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just how things work.
Like I said, a good journalist knows to maintain a good relationship with his sources. Slasher's sources are clearly not teams like EG and TL, and therefore he has not maintained a good relationship with them. That was his choice, made consciously, and the consequence of this choice may be that he has more trouble in the future working through official channels, for instance to get interviews with EG or TL players. Hopefully he's maintaining good relationships with the inside sources who provide the meat for most of his "inside scoop" stories — because if he alienates all the e-sports organizations, those secret inside sources will be all he'll have left.
I love that TL is so much more unbiased and you can see both sides of things. Reddit is a crap hole of Fuck so and so. Good post. I support Slasher continuing his journalism but I completely get why Nazgul and Alex are pissed and agree with most of what they said. I think Slasher has to realize these differences to improve his own business.
Sir, you and I may just have had the most reasoned, thoughtful exchange that has occurred on this issue all day xD
On January 17 2013 05:08 jmbthirteen wrote: Also, about Alex's rant about how what Slasher does only helps himself, isn't what EG wants only helps EG? Thats the point of business right? Last I checked, Slasher needs to help himself too. Journalism in esports isn't in a great place either, yet it is absolutely a necessary function of esports.
I can understand if you do not grasp the concept of advertising and media relation economics.
Basically, for the BEST benefit to ALL parties, the main source or team releases first, and the journalists release second, shortly after the main source. Both put out a good product or content for maximum effect. Both ride the wave.
For maxmimum effect, it only works one way.
if thats best, then why does no other industry work this way? esports needs to adapt
You throw a 500 million dollars a year into esports, and the economy of this industry will change overnight.
Until then, esports is a family, and one of the kids is stepping on the big brothers toes thinking he isn't hurting anyone.
@mrtomjones The problem with Slasher, is he thinks he is the the saviour of esports "journalism", freedom of the press and all that jazz. He doesn't really care at all what happens to esports. If anything, the collapse of teams is just more news for him to publish.
Support Slasher 100%. I enjoy when he breaks news early, and wait in anticipation for the team to confirm and deny it. He makes me feel like I have a "behind the scenes" access into the rumors and rumblings between players and teams. I don't care if his announcements aren't flashy. I don't care how it's done. This is the reality as the scene grows. Deal with it.
I feel like most of the arguments for the journalism are comparing them to mainstream sports, without acknowledging the fundamental issues as to why its different. ie. How revenue is created in esports.
I really think there needs to be give and take here, big announcements should be embargo'd and at the same time the teams can feed the journalists with announcements from time to time. or at least make them part of it.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote: I think one of the temptations people have when it comes to the recently controversial subject of journalism is to compare the e-sports industry to the broader sports industry. This is a very simplistic view that misses out on a lot of important differences. In a lot of ways, StarCraft II teams and baseball teams couldn't be more different.
Bill Baer, an ESPN sportswriter, recently posted on TL to lend his thoughts to the discussion about the Slasher controversy. I decided to respond with a post of my own because I disagreed quite strongly with Mr. Baer on a variety of points.
There was one line in particular in Bill's piece that struck me as missing the point. Here it is:
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret
There is a reason that baseball teams don't object to having their secrets spilled. The reason is that their sources of income are completely insulated from such breaches. According to New York Magazine, the revenue of the New York Yankees can be broken down as follows:
Sources of Revenue: Stadium tickets: $117 million (4.2 million tickets at an average of $28 each); YES network TV/radio rights: $60 million; Major League TV and licensing: $30 million; concessions: $10 million; sponsorships and advertising: $30 million; premium seating: $27 million; local radio: $13 million; catering: $5 million; other: $10 million.
The introduction of a new player for a team like the Yankees has absolutely no potential to make them any money directly. It has the potential to make money indirectly, for instance by encouraging people to buy tickets to see a new player play. But how the announcement is made doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the team's revenue. This is why, as Baer notes, baseball teams are happy to let journalists do the hype-building and announcements:
And yet, when the Phillies finally signed Lee on the 15th, it wasn't the Phillies who broke the news; it was journalist Jon Heyman, then with Sports Illustrated. Heyman's reporting did nothing to reduce the hype around the signing; Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site. In fact, it was never an issue.
Here, Baer unwittingly highlights the key difference between traditional sports and E-Sports that invalidates a good portion of his argument. "Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site," because Amaro knew that pageviews on the Phillies web site represented an infinitesimally small portion of his team's revenue and, by extension, his own paycheck.
That's not how a team like EG or TL works.
E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
I think Slasher has an obligation to report the news. Yes it's important for Slasher to have a good relationship with his sources, but it's also a two-way street. TL and EG can throw a hissy fit and black-ban Slasher from any future inside gossip, rumour, tips etc but would it really be in their interest? Relationships are always a two-way street and I think it would be silly of EG and TL to do something silly like completely removing themselves from any dealings with Slasher. It has a lot of potential to bite them in the ass down the line.
This is just my opinion, but I'd rather see both organisations--two of the premiere in the SC2 international e-sports world--use it as a learning experience as to how they might better engage with the e-sports media in the future to stop things like this happening. I'd hope there'd be scope to sit down with Slasher, explain their take on the issue and maybe work with eachother towards a mutually beneficial arrangement in the future.
It's much easier to make friends than create enemies. I can understand the frustration of losing out on the promotion of their own news but lashing out at the messenger (Slasher) is not the right option. Take it as a learning opportunity and implement strategies in the future to mitigate risks around significant announcements relating to your team.
If Slasher is going to lose them money (and himself indirectly) then it is purely in TL and EG's interests to not work with him in the slightest. Slasher needs to realize that this is not pro sports and that he has to maintain his relationships with teams and that those relationships involve him not hurting their major sources of income.
He can still profit in other ways with his insider info. I believe Alex said that he offered him exclusive interviewing rights which Slasher never took him up on.
What do you think Slasher gets more off of? Him breaking the news in a poor manner with no analysis and say... 50k people see it and go clicking on TL/EG and maybe a few on his site.
Or putting out the info just after TL and EG do and they get maybe 80-100k people viewing things with better hype and he does analysis and then gets one of a kind interviews the next day to put out when the hype is at it's strongest. He then profits from those extra people wanting to see his interviews.
Not only does it benefit him in that way but now EG and TL are happy with him and might even give him some future stories if he does a good job. They can work together now. Slasher didn't lose them money, EG and TL make their sponsors happy and get more money from them possibly, and both sides benefit more than the other way.
I can't answer those questions. They're hypothetical for one and questions Slasher himself would have to answer. I have no idea what traffic is like for Slasher and his news reports. How he chooses to report his news isn't the issue here for me.
Offering exclusive interviews is a positive step but if that's all Alex did, he's being lazy quite frankly. He's treating Slasher as an inconvenience rather than a legitimate channel he can work with.
All I'm saying is rather than getting made and (foolishly, IMO) just put a blanket ban on working with Slasher, teams like EG need to take a bit more of a proactive stance in working with members of the media. I think they're being too myopic about their communication and need to realise there are other players in the space who value the information--it's not just about them and their website hits. If they want to be more effective with their PR and communications they need to include Slasher as part of their plans rather than just hope he doesn't find out and post about it.
Imagine next time there is a big signing and EG has it's blanket ban of Slasher in effect. If Slasher gets word of it before it's official do you think he's going to have any loyalty in not posting the info? Of course not. And then we'll be at this thread again with EG once again cranky at having their thunder stolen.
Or they could do something different next time and try work with Slasher to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement when there is big news to be broken.
If it was me, I'd take option B because there are a lot of sources Slasher can garner this info from and I'd be banking on it leaking before the official announcement can be made.
Teams need to learn from these situations about how to better engage with the media, not just use them as a third party PR source. It's fine to bang you chest about Slasher ruining the announcement and threatening not to work with him anymore (which is their right) but, and this is just my opinion, I don't think it would be very clever of them to do that.
On January 17 2013 10:44 clever_us wrote: I think one of the temptations people have when it comes to the recently controversial subject of journalism is to compare the e-sports industry to the broader sports industry. This is a very simplistic view that misses out on a lot of important differences. In a lot of ways, StarCraft II teams and baseball teams couldn't be more different.
Bill Baer, an ESPN sportswriter, recently posted on TL to lend his thoughts to the discussion about the Slasher controversy. I decided to respond with a post of my own because I disagreed quite strongly with Mr. Baer on a variety of points.
There was one line in particular in Bill's piece that struck me as missing the point. Here it is:
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret
There is a reason that baseball teams don't object to having their secrets spilled. The reason is that their sources of income are completely insulated from such breaches. According to New York Magazine, the revenue of the New York Yankees can be broken down as follows:
Sources of Revenue: Stadium tickets: $117 million (4.2 million tickets at an average of $28 each); YES network TV/radio rights: $60 million; Major League TV and licensing: $30 million; concessions: $10 million; sponsorships and advertising: $30 million; premium seating: $27 million; local radio: $13 million; catering: $5 million; other: $10 million.
The introduction of a new player for a team like the Yankees has absolutely no potential to make them any money directly. It has the potential to make money indirectly, for instance by encouraging people to buy tickets to see a new player play. But how the announcement is made doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the team's revenue. This is why, as Baer notes, baseball teams are happy to let journalists do the hype-building and announcements:
And yet, when the Phillies finally signed Lee on the 15th, it wasn't the Phillies who broke the news; it was journalist Jon Heyman, then with Sports Illustrated. Heyman's reporting did nothing to reduce the hype around the signing; Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site. In fact, it was never an issue.
Here, Baer unwittingly highlights the key difference between traditional sports and E-Sports that invalidates a good portion of his argument. "Amaro did not complain that the surprise would reduce eyeballs on the Phillies web site," because Amaro knew that pageviews on the Phillies web site represented an infinitesimally small portion of his team's revenue and, by extension, his own paycheck.
That's not how a team like EG or TL works.
E-sports organizations like Evil Geniuses market themselves to sponsors as "New Media Agencies" capable of granting a sponsor exposure to a wide, receptive and valuable audience of fans. As such, every opportunity to secure page views represents an opportunity for an E-sports organization to make money.
You may have noticed that evilgeniuses.net does not run advertisements the way many websites do. There are no banners to click on and discover a new online flash game, no announcements that you have won a prize of some kind, and no invitations to online dating sites. What you will see if you look at a page on EG's site is an array of sponsors displayed on every page.
EG relies on page view statistics as part of its pitch when recruiting sponsors, and therefore when securing revenue.
When EG or TL announce a player, they put a lot of effort into making the announcement look as enticing and interesting as possible. This is because the announcement itself represents an opportunity to give each team's sponsors exposure. That's not how things work in baseball.
When Slasher spoils the announcement of a TL player's acquisition, it decreases the number of people who click the actual announcement when it goes up a week later. This decreases the number of people who see the sponsor logos included in that post, and therefore decreases TL's ability to obtain sponsors in the future.
Whether Slasher should be allowed to publish such spoiler pieces is not something anyone is disputing. He can do whatever he wants with whatever information he obtains. Whether Slasher is hurting the industry when he spoils announcements is another, more interesting question. The fact is that sabotaging a team's announcement page views sabotages their ability to secure sponsors in the future, and therefore does hurt the industry over time. This is not a concern in traditional sports media because player announcements and other "insider info" like that reported on MLBTradeRumors.com do not cut into MLB team revenues in any way.
Nonetheless, Baer makes a direct comparison between MLBTradeRumors and Slasher's work:
There is a website solely dedicated to posting rumors about teams and players (MLBTradeRumors.com), and it's very well-respected within the industry. The writers are given press access, players and members of team front offices visit the site daily, and there is no tension between the two sides. Aside from MLBTR, ESPN, FOX Sports, CBS Sports, and a host of other media outlets employ journalists to break news in exactly the way Breslau has done within e-sports.
In e-sports, there IS tension between the two sides, and sites dedicated to posting rumors are NOT well-respected within the industry. That's because e-sports is not like regular sports.
Does Alex Garfield have a right to prohibit Slasher from publishing spoiler pieces like the one about Snute's signing? Of course not! But he never professed to have this right. However, does Alex Garfield have a right to be mad as hell when Slasher takes 35,000 page views off one of his major player announcements with a spoiler piece? Of course he does.
And do e-sports organizations like EG and TL have a right to prefer sharing interviews and inside scoops with the journalism sources that AREN'T screwing them over 24/7? Of course! Do they have a right to cut off communication with Slasher, a demonstrated threat to their ability to recruit sponsors? They absolutely, 100% do!
Honestly, I think HuK said it best in a series of tweets earlier today:
In the end its pretty simple in my eyes. It a conscious choice of being a tabloid magazine and leaking everything before it happens. Or being a TIME magazine kind of thing and getting the more prestigious interviews, in-depth analysis, and professional aspect of the scene. But you can't really be both when so much of journalism depends on relationships with people in the scene. There is nothing wrong with being either; but u really cant be both.
That's what a lot of people don't understand about the Slasher controversy. In the end, it isn't about whether Slasher has a right to publish whatever spoiler pieces he wants. It isn't even about whether Alex Garfield has a right to embargo Slasher.
Part of being a good journalist, and I can guarantee you that Bill Baer would agree with this 100%, means staying on good terms with your sources.
If Slasher continues screwing over e-sports organizations like EG and TL, then he can't expect to use them as sources in the future. It's as simple as that.
I think Slasher has an obligation to report the news. Yes it's important for Slasher to have a good relationship with his sources, but it's also a two-way street. TL and EG can throw a hissy fit and black-ban Slasher from any future inside gossip, rumour, tips etc but would it really be in their interest? Relationships are always a two-way street and I think it would be silly of EG and TL to do something silly like completely removing themselves from any dealings with Slasher. It has a lot of potential to bite them in the ass down the line.
This is just my opinion, but I'd rather see both organisations--two of the premiere in the SC2 international e-sports world--use it as a learning experience as to how they might better engage with the e-sports media in the future to stop things like this happening. I'd hope there'd be scope to sit down with Slasher, explain their take on the issue and maybe work with eachother towards a mutually beneficial arrangement in the future.
It's much easier to make friends than create enemies. I can understand the frustration of losing out on the promotion of their own news but lashing out at the messenger (Slasher) is not the right option. Take it as a learning opportunity and implement strategies in the future to mitigate risks around significant announcements relating to your team.
If Slasher is going to lose them money (and himself indirectly) then it is purely in TL and EG's interests to not work with him in the slightest. Slasher needs to realize that this is not pro sports and that he has to maintain his relationships with teams and that those relationships involve him not hurting their major sources of income.
He can still profit in other ways with his insider info. I believe Alex said that he offered him exclusive interviewing rights which Slasher never took him up on.
What do you think Slasher gets more off of? Him breaking the news in a poor manner with no analysis and say... 50k people see it and go clicking on TL/EG and maybe a few on his site.
Or putting out the info just after TL and EG do and they get maybe 80-100k people viewing things with better hype and he does analysis and then gets one of a kind interviews the next day to put out when the hype is at it's strongest. He then profits from those extra people wanting to see his interviews.
Not only does it benefit him in that way but now EG and TL are happy with him and might even give him some future stories if he does a good job. They can work together now. Slasher didn't lose them money, EG and TL make their sponsors happy and get more money from them possibly, and both sides benefit more than the other way.
Offering exclusive interviews is a positive step but if that's all Alex did, he's being lazy quite frankly. He's treating Slasher as an inconvenience rather than a legitimate channel he can work with.
Or they could do something different next time and try work with Slasher to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement when there is big news to be broken.
What are you arguing? You say Garfield is being lazy for offering Slasher "only" exclusive interviews, but then you say that EG should work with Slasher to come to a "mutually beneficial arrangement." What is that mutually beneficial arrangement when we're dealing with a journalist? All he cares about are page views, and everyone is screaming at him with a better way to generate those views. But he basically refuses to listen.
It doesn't even seem like he knows what he's doing. He tweeted recently that
I have always put the players first and foremost in my content, including @LiveOnThree. The story is not about me.
lolwut? If he's putting the players first, and the players/their managers tell him that stealing views from their announcements literally takes money from their pockets, he would listen and try to change. He would understand that leaking Snute's signing was a beyond-dick thing to do. He would understand why people are mad at him, as opposed to saying "Yeah well, I'm used to it." Whenever someone says "Fuck the haters," they mean one of two things. One, they know the haters don't know what they're talking about and should shut up. Or two, the "haters" are making legitimate points, but they refuse to listen and change. I'm beginning to understand more and more that he's the second type of guy.
I just....people are trumpeting the majesty of some kind of "Journalistic Magic Happy Times" where journalism should be completely separate from the industry they're reporting on. That doesn't happen in any industry at all. Every journalist relies on sources and companies and their connections with the industry itself to make their stories. With that interconnectedness, the journalists agree to only help their industry. They're not out to hurt it, they're out to help it. And in baseball, reporting a leak about trading players doesn't hurt the team at all. There's literally no harm done to the Yankees when their trades are leaked.
However, when you break "Snute to Liquid," you just shit on TeamLiquid's announcement and did more harm than leaking a trade could ever do in regular sports. The scale between what ESPN does and what Slasher does is so disproportionate, I'm still confused as to how people can conflate the two.
At least on Lo3 Slasher admits that he should make the content more than shitting out "Snute to Liquid" in the title and "Snute to Liquid" in the body of the article. At least that little bit of Garfield's rant got through to him.
tl;dr: Leaking trades in other sports doesn't actively hurt the industry. Entire websites built around leaking MLB trades, as the op stated, doesn't hurt baseball at all. Slasher leaking "Snute to Liquid" or other big events that would generate a massive hype train, and therefore increased page views and sponsor money, does way more harm to the teams than it helps him.
There are plenty of things EG/TL could do if they were a bit proactive with managing media.
I'm not going to write them a media strategy here and now but what I'm saying is they need to engage with Slasher as part of an overall communications strategy for making their announcements. Interaction with media outlets shouldn't be an after thought or oversights but part of the process. I'm not saying EG/TL doesn't do this--I have no idea what their strategies are when making these announcements.
But clearly something has gone wrong for both EG and TL recently with big announcements and getting mad and making threats at Slasher is the wrong way to go about it (again, just my opinion as an outsider). Slasher isn't going away and like many have said, it can be pretty difficult to keep a lid on many of these announcements.
The folk that run EG/TL are smart operators and I'm sure they could sit down and work out a way to stop this happening in the future. All I'm advocating is media involvement should be part of the process--not a risk to mitigate.
I can't get past how the CEO of EG, Alex Garfield, behaved during this entire fiasco. It gave me some insight into the corporate culture of EG and therefore the sometimes poor public behaviour of Idra, iNcontroL and SirScoots. There is a glaring consistency in how often this gang allows themselves to trash other people using the LO3 show as a platform of hate.
My intention was to sit back and be entertained by engaging conversation, and the sometimes silly but amusing antics of iNcontroL; instead I came away completely stressed. I can't help but associate this feeling of disappointment and loss with their sponsors' products. What a shame.
I agree wholeheartedly with Bill Baer, he summed up everything I thought about Slasher's job perfectly. Slasher definitely isn't in the wrong here, it's EG for initially leaking information. If EG knew the potential loss in revenue from any leaks, then he should have provided consideration for any parties that knew about the leak to keep it under wraps. If any of those parties still leaked? Then there should have been law suits.
I want to make a point about something a lot of people are mentioning, which is the "EG receive revenue mostly from ads while sports teams receive revenue from sponsorships/whatever"
That is true, and you would be a fool to argue otherwise. However, as Bill Baer aptly pointed out in the original post - Leaks happen all the time, and these organisations should adapt to the leaks.
What this means is that EG should expect that information would be leaked, and instead of just making content for an announcement that a player is joining the team, they should create content in anticipation of a leak so the content is still valid, will interest viewers, and thus can still generate revenue.
A journalist may be able to obtain information that a player is joining, but it would be much more difficult to receive information that the player is attending events X, Y, Z due to joining the team. That the player is joining the team for reasons X, Y, Z. etc etc
There are a variety of additional content that viewers will be interested in regardless of knowledge of the leak. EG should be focusing on that content, not trying to capitalise on the initial announcement because it should be expected that a leak is possible.
Lastly, in terms of ITG in relation to this controversy, I need to point something out.
I think it was completely underhanded of DJWheat (I am assuming he controls who comes onto the show, if not, then replace him with whoever is) to bring TotalBiscuit on. Understand that I don't mean TotalBiscuit doesn't have the credentials to speak on this matter, it is clear he does. But the rationale for bringing TotalBiscuit on was ridiculously underhanded because it was clearly hinted that they brought him on ONLY because they thought he would support Alex Garfield's views. He manages a team, and it would be fair to assume a situation like this has transpired that is relevant to TotalBiscuit (if not, then he can sympathise as a manager), who is TotalBiscuit likely going to agree with here? There's clearly going to be bias in his arguments because someone like Slasher can also affect the revenue that TotalBiscuit's team makes.
I watched the show LIVE and read a lot (not all) of whats been said and there are two things
1. This isn't about Slasher or Alex being right. This is about to two important groups in our community that are at odds. Until both journalists and teams figure this out all of e-sports will suffer.
2. I don't think the argument holds that EG should offer Slasher exclusive interviews or something even better not to leak the information.If you give Slasher the exclusive interview, for "Snute to liquid" for example, to keep him quiet what happens when journalist #2 find out and you cant give him the exclusive "Snute to liquid" interview cuz you've given it to Slasher. So what do you give journalist #2, and then #3 cuz eventually your going to run out of things to give journalists to keep them quiet.
Teams need better relationships with journalists but its not a perfect world, and its obvious that Slasher and Alex can't work with each other because they're competing with each other over the same information and since they work in the same space they see only one choice, so they end up saying F*CK YOU and hurting each other for their own good. And what their really doing is hurting everyone who cares about E-Sports.
They're in a no win situation, the Kobayashi Maru, and as Kirk has taught us there is only one way to beat the no-win situation. They need to change the rules of the game and the teams, players, journalists, commentators, developers and even the fans are all connected. We impact each other whether we like it or not. Blizzard is realizing this and now its time for us as a community to accept this truth as well or our community will deteriorate.
Journalists and teams need to step up and come together on ground rules that are mutually beneficial or at least agree to live and let live, and not keep cutting the legs out from underneath each other just for some page views. Until both journalists and the teams figure this out ALL OF E-SPORTS WILL SUFFER.
I completely agree that it was EG's fault and that Slasher was not in the wrong. If anyone saw destiny's analysis on the whole thing he makes really good points and shows why Slasher did nothing wrong and EG is just trying to pass their own blame on others.
1) Of course a journalist would stick up for a journalist.
2) Slasher did nothing wrong as a journalist. Morally? I believe so. Of course he's going to be selfish as EG wanted to be selfish. But you know what, EG has something to lose - sponsors. Slasher does not. Does it hurt e-sports, I THINK SO. I didn't look TOOOOOO much into this, but didn't EG lose Steel Series or something as a sponsor? Even if they didn't lose Steel Series because of this, I'm sure their sponsors WHO FUND THE PLAYERS' SALARIES (mean pays for our beloved Jaedong's salary, which gives US, the viewers, MORE EXPOSURE) are upset over this! (Jaedong WOULD NOT BE STREAMING FOR US if he were still on a KESPA team.)
3) Of course EG is also selfish. EG is a business. Much like the Green Back Packers is a franchise that is trying to make a profit or the Los Angeles Lakers are a franchise trying to find revenue anywhere they can. So THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with a BUSINESS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY.
4) Cool that a ESPN writer is even hearing about this ^ ^
If slasher wouldn't release informations someone else would. And then slasher would lost his credibility and everybody would see him as EG bitch. (Sorry for words but it's the truth)
On January 17 2013 17:00 IMHope wrote: I completely agree that it was EG's fault and that Slasher was not in the wrong. If anyone saw destiny's analysis on the whole thing he makes really good points and shows why Slasher did nothing wrong and EG is just trying to pass their own blame on others.
This ^^.
Its really hard to believe that with this information being leaked by EG, their response is blaming the free lance journalist for reporting news that is already out there! Obviously, this had a big impact and ramifications for EG and especially Garfield but trying to dump the blame on someone else who is not at fault is just really childish. Something I am a little disappointed in, considering this is CEO of the biggest Team in E-sports.
I feel the user rotegirte hit the nail on the head with his insightful post. In the industry where pageviews are indirectly the only source of revenue, information is power, and all the sides in the industry are fighting for it. Although it can be argued that in the current state of the industry, mutual cooperation can be more beneficial, I personally think we have passed that point, and there is no need to protect esports in bubble wrap. Especially when party like EG feels entitled to said resources, and their CEO throws a tantrum when certain people in the industry don't share his view that EG should get the biggest part of the cake.
This ESPN guy doesn't get it. You as journalists get press days and shit so the knowledge is public to pretty much anyone with a god damn press pass. And you benefit off of giving your interview to your company so you get money. Journalists go to PRESS CONFERENCES and the teams announce a lot of shit TO JOURNALISTS TO WRITE ABOUT. NOT LEAKING INFORMATION ABOUT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. Get your head out of your high horse for being a shitty ESPN press guy and go shove it up your ass
Thanks for all the responses (except for Random_Guy09, obviously, hahaha). I didn't think I'd get anywhere near this much feedback, just felt like adding my perspective. Between here, Reddit, and Twitter, I'd like to respond to everybody but there's been a lot. So, just know that I've read almost all of it and appreciate it greatly.
Comparing a small culture growing as E-sports is to Baseball that is massive and has alot more money and views then what e-sports has seems unfair.
Doesn't justify anything yes in baseball, leak transfers wont hurt a team but in E-sports with pretty much no money compared to baseball that get money from view will hurt a team.
I just feel that its unfair to make that comparison, maybe info could have been handled better but also slasher should know what to do and what not to do with leak info not just to blast it out.
slasher works for gamespot. gamespots and esports dont really go well together in the minds of most esports fanatics. slasher is attempting to legitimize his organization int he esports world by being the FIRST place to report big news. slasher would be an idiot and a TERRIBLE employee if he isnt doing what he is doing. if gamespot keeps providing these esports happening before the rest of the esports world does, then suddenly gamespot is a legitimate source for esports news. good on slasher, oh and, fuck alex garfield once again, what an arrogant prick. eg makes me fucking sick anymore.
Never a fan of Slasher, but have to say this backlash against him is retarded. This post nails it. Slasher was doing his job, he can't be faulted for that. If you don't want information leaked, don't let it leak. That's like complaining that your cat killed and ate your bird when you left them in a cage together...
On January 17 2013 17:00 IMHope wrote: I completely agree that it was EG's fault and that Slasher was not in the wrong. If anyone saw destiny's analysis on the whole thing he makes really good points and shows why Slasher did nothing wrong and EG is just trying to pass their own blame on others.
This ^^.
Its really hard to believe that with this information being leaked by EG, their response is blaming the free lance journalist for reporting news that is already out there! Obviously, this had a big impact and ramifications for EG and especially Garfield but trying to dump the blame on someone else who is not at fault is just really childish. Something I am a little disappointed in, considering this is CEO of the biggest Team in E-sports.
I don’t think people are arguing that Slasher did anything wrong. When the discussion started on ITG, Geoff went to great lengths to state that Slasher to say that. The issue that Nazgul put it is that Slasher wants to be part of the teams events at a professional level, yet during also tries to use his connections during that time to find and leak information that is valuable to the teams.
Every team owner has the a similar opinion on the matter, that having Slasher leak these things early cuts into their revenue. Because of this, their relationship with Slasher is going to become more combative and they may have to deny him the access to their players he previously enjoyed and allowed him to do the quality coverage at events.
Nazgul has is right when he says it is bad relationship management. If Slasher wants the access with teams to do the work he does, the he needs to understand that he may lose that if he keeps undercutting their press releases. There is nothing ethical or moral about the argument. It is all about how combative the relationship between the press and the teams gets. The team owners are trying to say that this aspect is making more combative and they think it can be avoided if the press work with them a little bit. The press, like Slasher, do not need to agree, but it is a discussion worth having.
On January 17 2013 05:18 EG.lectR wrote: "Ultimately, EG's issue with Breslau's reporting is their fault. If they want information used the way they want it to be used, they need to withhold that information as they see fit, which is certainly their right."
This assumes that information is always between one party or parties which are under the same level of control. That is not the case within e-sports and there is no body which monitors that information or those conversations. Teams talk freely, players talk freely, and there are too many people involved in normal transactions [in this case, team transactions] to claim that one party can control it all and you cannot, as one entity, change that at this time.
Which is how it works in the real world in professional sports across the board. GMs talk to other GMs, agents talk to other agents, players talk to other players, and of course people within the organizations that are way bigger than eSports organizations also talk.
Across the board that you're referencing is a body called the NFL, MLB, NHL, and others similarly named which have specific contracts across their franchised teams which prevent them from distributing this information before an appropriate time. Even in the event of leaks, those governing bodies can quickly replace people who they feel have leaked information at no detriment to the organization.
That is not the case with e-sports. Not only do those types of contracts not exist across e-sports teams, but there is no governing team body to enforce them. Plus, those teams (the e-sports ones) mentioned are incredibly fragile and operate entirely differently between organizations.
we're losing money qq, let's hang someone. AFAIK such a rule doesn't work in soccer/every major sport in Europe and things are leaked all the time, doesn't look like the bayern munchen, top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol. If your business model is awful enough to rely on getting such annoucements on your own website, well i'm glad your company (not specifically eg) is going down. funnily there is no pbm with kespa teams as far as business model goes, maybe the fact they rely on strong sponsorship and a real league instead of online jokes is the core of the answer...
This is downright moronic. Major sports teams do not work the way e-sports teams do. Baseball teams get their revenue largely from stadium tickets and TV/radio rights. E-sports get their revenue from sponsors, and they do that by promising their sponsors exposure. If Slasher cuts 35,000 views off an announcement post by spoiling it a week in advance, that directly sabotages the statistics EG uses to recruit sponsors and therefore secure income.
When you say "doesn't look like top rugby or handball clubs are failing despite their absence of exclusivity on news lol" you illustrate exactly how little you understand the sweeping differences between the business model of traditional sports and e-sports.
Team X has scouted player A of Team Y for a long time. He has 6months of his contract left, he's from a lesser known league. X now approaches Y and says "He we'd like to get your player. We would pay 500k for his 6month long contract. Keep in mind in 6months you get nothing". They also approach player A at the same time "We offer you a 500k yearly salary if you join us". Well, Y wants to get _some_ money and A thinks 500k is good enough. So they both agree.
Now in another situation someone leaks that X is interested in A. Now suddenly team Z (and more) realize there is this player A on the market. And if X is interested in him, he's probably not that bad. So they focus on him for a while and think he will also be an asset to their team. And Z is offering Y 750k transfer fee and A a 600k salary. (Of course X can top this offer now but that's not the point).
Where do you think will A go to? And do you think X would have benefited from no leak?
Leaks in sports cost teams a shitton of money or even players.
On January 17 2013 12:18 HolyExlxF wrote: My issue, and iNcontroL and TB commented on it as well, is that Slasher puts zero effort into these releases. He COULD get that juicy interview if he held out longer, he COULD be the first with player access at an event, but he prefers the one-liner repeated-byline stories. As TB and Garfield both observed, it just seems like Slasher is being deliberately lazy in his journalism.
Slasher WILL piss off people & teams. But he is also an asset & tool which can be used by the teams - so disregarding him completely is stupid & immature. The thing is - balance. Sometimes he pisses a team of if the news alone is big enough (Jaedong), but sometimes he should work with the team together ( so yeah, I agree he has some work to do himself^^)
The problem with comparing e-sports and actual sports is that website eyeballs/clicks actually generate most of the revenue for e-sports teams (generate revenue for sponsors => money for teams). By contrast, professional sports teams get most of their money from ticket sales, tv contracts, radio contracts etc, things that aren't tied to their website traffic.
When he says the Phillies didn't care about the website eyeballs, well that's because its a minuscule part of their revenue generation. They'd rather have hype for hype's sake because the only way to get access to the Phillies playing baseball is through one of their revenue generation channels (tv/radio broadcast, tickets to games).
On the other hand, the only way for EG to get money is really through the eyeballs and clicks on their webpage and the number of eyeballs they can generate for sponsors. They don't get revenue sharing from MLG, they don't have tv partnerships. That's why Alex cares about this matter so much more than the professional sports teams. This simply isn't an apples to apples comparison.
in baseball and hockey there are numerous MARRIED players on the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Blue Jays that are screwing 10 women at a time... and nothing is ever written or said about it in the mainstream press.
former Blue Jay GM JP Ricciardi was screwing a 19 year old during 1 year of his tenure with the Toronto Blue Jays. Nary a word in the mainstream press.
so this "complete freedom of the press" covering sports is incorrect
The funny thing about it is that EG's complaint over "lost eyeballs" hurting esports may not even be accurate. This debate, while specifically e-sports and journalism, brings into view a lot of topics which many outside of e-sports can come weigh in on, subsequently increasing e-sports' exposure.
To put it shortly, even if Slasher's leaks detract from a team's ad revenue from this or that, the public discussion thereafter increases e-sports' exposure. Who wins?
The thing I got out of the whole debate was that there is this unknown when it comes to E-Sports. That is, it isn't yet at the caliber of a sport where it makes money off of a network deal but still subscriber streams, advertisers, page views, etc. But E-Sports is not a sport, at least here in the west yet. I think both sides of the issue, Alex and Slasher have valid points. Maybe the manner in which Alex handled it was not the best, but he has a point for how the way ESports works currently. That revenue is needed for teams, and if the advertisers are angry about something, it would be the Alex who has to hear it. Slasher has a job where he is paid to find news and publish it for the masses. There should be some sort of a consensus in the community of ESports that allows it a chance to grow as well as become profitable. Plus, a foundation needs to be created between the two sides.
On January 18 2013 02:19 Niten wrote: Thanks Bill for your insights! Great to read.
The funny thing about it is that EG's complaint over "lost eyeballs" hurting esports may not even be accurate. This debate, while specifically e-sports and journalism, brings into view a lot of topics which many outside of e-sports can come weigh in on, subsequently increasing e-sports' exposure.
To put it shortly, even if Slasher's leaks detract from a team's ad revenue from this or that, the public discussion thereafter increases e-sports' exposure. Who wins?
Here is the real funny thing, the way EG presented themselves during that show and their extremly arrogant attitudes on how the whole world should only turn around them has for the most part done way more damage to the reputation of the EG brand then any Slasher or other leak ever. It is everybody's job to primarily act in their own respectively their employers interest, so even trying to blame Slasher for that is crazy. It is so simple, if you leak information yourself, you can't blame anybody else but yourself. All this talk then about Slasher getting his information from outside sources is completely invalid, since those outside sources at some point got their information from EG. Don't leak what is not supposed to be leaked and if you are at a point where you already have to tell outside sources like leagues about upcoming changes, then it is already official and then you should have had your very own release already.
So I wanted to reply to this with my thoughts I hope its not too late.
As I learned you are writer with ESPN dealing with professional baseball going through some of your past articles(I am a long suffering resident from Pittsburgh...) so I didn't know of you because of my lack of love for baseball presently. I just wanted to bring up a point in regards to the correlation that I see a lot of people doing with Major Sports vs Esports.
In traditional sports, teams and journalists work together, dispassionately. Teams know it is in their best interest to allow them access, even if they may report things they would otherwise want kept secret. That's not to say there are no issues, but there's a reason why there is a strong correlation between a country's freedom of the press, and the overall health of that country (by many measures). It's the same within industries, even as small as e-sports. The more access the press has, the better the industry is overall.
The above quote I feel is very misleading; here are two examples of why I feel this way :
1) Hours before the N.F.L. season began Thursday, ESPN demonstrated what “Monday Night Football” means to the cable empire by renewing it for $15.2 billion through 2021
2) The largest broadcasting deal in Major League Baseball history was announced on Tuesday, as MLB and ESPN reached an eight-year, $5.6 billion agreement that keeps the national pastime on that network through 2021 and puts ESPN back in the postseason picture next season
Now, by paying the NFL, MLB this type of money; they inherently buy the right to write any type of story they feel in my opinion. If Jamison Hensley would dig up some dirt on a move the Steelers were going to make today lets say trading Polamalu to a random team or cutting Harrison before the team could have their own official release it isn't a big deal. Everyone who follows football knows who the Steelers are. They are an established team that has been around forever.
When you make the jump to eSports you are in a world that covers dozens of games and teams that are not fortunate enough to be backed with a yearly income of a billion dollars from a Gamespot or an IGN etc. In my opinion eSports is nowhere near a level that you could compare it to sports like football, baseball, basketball etc. It is an apples to oranges comparison.
You as a blogger for the Phillies in addition to your relationship with ESPN probably gets you press box access(A friend of mine does something similar with the Penguins here). Now assume you have no ties to ESPN and you are just working as your own blogging site. If you would disregard constant request from the Phillies not to write soandso how long do you think it would be until you no longer are on the press list?
A quote that I enjoy that seems to always wrongly get attributed to Mark Twain is "Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel" and I think in the end it is wrong of Slasher to constantly do as there are only so many bridges to burn in something this small presently.
I am going to also assume you are a Flyers fan so I wish you bad luck today~