Titan (Click the outer side of the video, don't click play, gotta go to the site directly.)
Sounds from space
From a post below:
On January 17 2008 13:50 BottleAbuser wrote: I present to you Wikipedia links!
The Fermi paradox shows us an apparent problem with current "possible life" models, which are heavily based on the Drake equation.
Basically, the Fermi paradox says (paraphrased) "given the huge number of stars out there, some of them must be the type that facilitates life. Among these, some of them will have planets of the correct composition, of the correct orbit, of the correct rotation, and possibly with a correctly-sized moon, which are all hypothesized to be required for life. Once we account for the numbers, there must be trillions of planets out there that host life, and millions or at least thousands of these must be 'intelligent.' And the vast majority of these will be extremely old, as in several billions of years old. So why haven't we heard from them yet?"
Some proposed solutions are: Our model is wrong, and life (or at least intelligent life) has much higher, less probably met requirements. Or intelligent life tends to self-terminate before reaching interstellar travel. There are others, but most are very unexciting or depressing.
those signals are from the electromagnetic field of the planet if I remember correctly, from what I understand you can tune into Jupiter occasionally in the western deserts of the US.
Well, I don't know about those videos (can't watch them) but I will say that I feel entirely sure the universe is full of life. I believe the universe itself is alive (admittedly a strange and unpopular definition of life, but one I subscribe to.)
The thing is, humans are interested primarily in "intelligent life." Of course, most life is profoundly intelligent. What humans are really interested in is more properly termed "stupid life," that which is like us. I'm sure that kind of life is out there too.
I agree with some of the people that have mentioned it already. The universe HAS to have other life forms other than us. I mean, if it happened here in the little Milky Way Galaxy, why can't it happen somewhere else too? The universe is fucking huuuugeeeeee. Think of the possibilities. @_@
On January 17 2008 12:47 nA.Inky wrote: Well, I don't know about those videos (can't watch them) but I will say that I feel entirely sure the universe is full of life. I believe the universe itself is alive (admittedly a strange and unpopular definition of life, but one I subscribe to.)
The thing is, humans are interested primarily in "intelligent life." Of course, most life is profoundly intelligent. What humans are really interested in is more properly termed "stupid life," that which is like us. I'm sure that kind of life is out there too.
?
Humans arent stupid wtf.
=p
The only reason you know about other planets and such is because of smart humans throughout history.
Sadist, I think we all make up our own idea of life. I mean, it is that or we subscribe to someone else's idea of life. This doesn't trouble me.
Sure, whether or not humans are intelligent or stupid is debatable - the debate would revolve around definitions of intelligence. By the way humans tend to view intelligence, we humans are quite intelligent (hmmm... I wonder if that is a coincidence.)
Again, my thoughts on life are an issue of definition. I see everything in the universe as a part of a living system - alive and conscious in ways that humans can't even imagine. This is more of a religious kind of belief, sure.
At any rate, in my view, humans are rather foolish considering how we foolishly exploit our resources, we kill thousands of other species of life every year for no good reason as far as I am concerned, and we undermine our own well being in so many ways - organizational, technological, and environmental.
I believe much of this is because we don't view ourselves as part of the universe, but rather as being outside of it, like invaders or conquerers. We see ourselves as distinct from each other and from our world. This is a kind of blindness or dullness, as far as I am concerned - a real handicap. Humans are so terribly afraid and greedy, not realizing that there is nothing to fear and that we already have everything we need.
The Fermi paradox shows us an apparent problem with current "possible life" models, which are heavily based on the Drake equation.
Basically, the Fermi paradox says (paraphrased) "given the huge number of stars out there, some of them must be the type that facilitates life. Among these, some of them will have planets of the correct composition, of the correct orbit, of the correct rotation, and possibly with a correctly-sized moon, which are all hypothesized to be required for life. Once we account for the numbers, there must be trillions of planets out there that host life, and millions or at least thousands of these must be 'intelligent.' And the vast majority of these will be extremely old, as in several billions of years old. So why haven't we heard from them yet?"
Some proposed solutions are: Our model is wrong, and life (or at least intelligent life) has much higher, less probably met requirements. Or intelligent life tends to self-terminate before reaching interstellar travel. There are others, but most are very unexciting or depressing.
Because there is intelligent life. Even if there's nothing else, there's us. That would make us the oldest. If there was something before us, it was that, unless something came before that.
Of course, we're talking about planets, not species.
Oh, right. I completely forgot to consider that "simultaneity" becomes very ambiguous (actually, completely nonsensical) at long distances and large speeds. There isn't a universal clock. Thanks Einstein, you bastard.
So I guess no, there doesn't have to be an "oldest" intelligent lifeform. Strike my last post.
On January 17 2008 13:01 ilovejonn wrote: I agree with some of the people that have mentioned it already. The universe HAS to have other life forms other than us. I mean, if it happened here in the little Milky Way Galaxy, why can't it happen somewhere else too? The universe is fucking huuuugeeeeee. Think of the possibilities. @_@
Think about how small is the posibility of life spawning out of rocks and water.
Gee, I dunno. Any macromolecule that catalyzes more of its kind could probably be considered life. Probably would need some very specific type of chemical composition and structure, and quite improbable to spontaneously form.
But then again, consider that a liter of liquid would consist of something on the order of 10^27 molecules. In one second, there could be maybe 10^29 interactions. And a planet could have say 10^20 liters of organic fluid. And let's say 10^15 of these planets exist. And the universe has been around for 10^17 seconds. Huge numbers thrown in on both sides, and my head is too small to hold them.
Point is, it's not very useful to say "this is improbable, which is why we don't see it" until you have a reasonable idea of how improbable it actually is.
Possible that you do have a reasonable idea, now that I think of it. If so, I'm really interested in hearing it, and your justifications.
On January 17 2008 13:29 nA.Inky wrote: Sadist, I think we all make up our own idea of life. I mean, it is that or we subscribe to someone else's idea of life. This doesn't trouble me.
Sure, whether or not humans are intelligent or stupid is debatable - the debate would revolve around definitions of intelligence. By the way humans tend to view intelligence, we humans are quite intelligent (hmmm... I wonder if that is a coincidence.)
Again, my thoughts on life are an issue of definition. I see everything in the universe as a part of a living system - alive and conscious in ways that humans can't even imagine. This is more of a religious kind of belief, sure.
At any rate, in my view, humans are rather foolish considering how we foolishly exploit our resources, we kill thousands of other species of life every year for no good reason as far as I am concerned, and we undermine our own well being in so many ways - organizational, technological, and environmental.
I believe much of this is because we don't view ourselves as part of the universe, but rather as being outside of it, like invaders or conquerers. We see ourselves as distinct from each other and from our world. This is a kind of blindness or dullness, as far as I am concerned - a real handicap. Humans are so terribly afraid and greedy, not realizing that there is nothing to fear and that we already have everything we need.
I think with planets such as Gliese 581c (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52394) being found, the likelihood of extraterrestrial life-forms is incredibly high. First contact, if it happens before we die out, will be nuts.
On January 18 2008 04:21 DevAzTaYtA wrote: I think with planets such as Gliese 581c (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52394) being found, the likelihood of extraterrestrial life-forms is incredibly high. First contact, if it happens before we die out, will be nuts.
That would be insane. Iunno if I'd run out to go meet them if they ever came here or arm myself and head for the hills.
To put it in perspective, how far is it from ehre to Pluto? Our solar system isn't even the size of a light year, correct?
Oh, intelligent life does have to exist. Otherwise we wouldn't be asking the question. Whether one type of intelligent life has to be the "oldest" is ambiguous at best.
Our solar system is a few light-hours (less than a light-day) in diameter. I remember calculating that as an exercise some time ago.
I don't think it would be rational to "go for the hills" if we get ET contact. The contact will be one of two types, if it happens:
It happens via electromagnetic waves, which means that they'll be too far to hurt us even if they wanted to.
It happens via physical contact, as in an alien ship or probe comes close enough to us that we see it, or they blow us up with some sort of weapon.
In the second case, it can probably be safely assumed that the alien race is advanced enough to have a homeworld (or equivalent base) close enough to be a threat, but evade our detection through some magical technology, in which case we're screwed if they're hostile. Same if they're far away but have magical fast-travel technology.
No data, so I'm talking out of my ass, but I think that we won't see aliens who are advanced enough to cross interstellar space, and want to make war, but somehow are weak enough that we can fight them effectively, from the hills or otherwise.
On January 17 2008 13:07 Sadist wrote: Humans arent stupid wtf.
Yes we are, and you know it also. Everyday I see a new stupidity on tv, we know its bad, yet we laugh, hence my point of view. Who actually thinks were intelligent? The guys from the Planet Krypton were much smarter than us, but did that save them from extinction? NO, they were ignorant like us also.
btw, that second video is bunch of bullshit, how can a meteor crash on the rings produce that sound, 1-3 seconds my ass. They also enchance the sound, making the altered sound completely unsupportive of their theory. I could record spiders mating and then amplify the sound and they that its aliens. pfft.
btw, Gliesie 581C has Earth like characteristics and its not far away from here. I have my bag packed, I'm ready to get the hell out of here. Who's coming with me? We can play Starcraft or poke around on unevolved life forms.
I think thoraxe is confused by the double meaning of "intelligence" used for some jokes.
Intelligent could mean smart. So a dumb blonde would not be intelligent. With this meaning, the world has very few intelligent people, and humans would not be considered intelligent the majority of the time.
It could also mean advancing in technology to increase physical capabilities. In this case, humans are intelligent. In the context of ET, this implies that an intelligent race will be more likely to be detected by us humans, as they will be more likely to change radiation coming out of their part of the sky (power technology), or they will be more likely to come closer to us (travel technology).
To summarize, humans are mostly illogical, but we do eventually figure things out (tragically, sometimes too late). Maybe we're stupid, but we're still intelligent.
DevAzTaYtA: See, that's a problem. From our models, there should be thousands of intelligent star-faring races out there. We should have seen some of them by now; the probability of them being out there and us seeing them is extremely high, but we haven't seen them yet. Just the Fermi paradox reworded.
On January 17 2008 13:01 ilovejonn wrote: I agree with some of the people that have mentioned it already. The universe HAS to have other life forms other than us. I mean, if it happened here in the little Milky Way Galaxy, why can't it happen somewhere else too? The universe is fucking huuuugeeeeee. Think of the possibilities. @_@
Think about how small is the posibility of life spawning out of rocks and water.
I don't get it. Do I have some setting turned off? I keep seeing posts here and there that just quote something, like the poster forgot to write his own post after deciding what to respond to.