The dreaded friend zone
Blogs > Vin{MBL} |
Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_zone | ||
Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
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BuGzlToOnl
United States5918 Posts
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
On May 30 2008 12:51 selboN wrote: when you're marked a friend that generally means she was never attracted to you i Not necessarily true. | ||
XCetron
5225 Posts
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yubee
United States3826 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
On May 30 2008 12:44 Vin{MBL} wrote: is that a serious question? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_zone lol I wouldn't think there would be a wiki about it o_o but no, there isn't. | ||
JoMal
Trinidad/Tobago1177 Posts
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On May 30 2008 13:00 Wizard wrote: lol I wouldn't think there would be a wiki about it o_o but no, there isn't. there is a wiki for everything dude! | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
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Quesadilla
United States1814 Posts
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bustaBust
Canada469 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On May 30 2008 14:52 Quesadilla wrote: If you truly like the girl, enjoy the zone. Friendship and communication are the best parts about a relationship honestly, go through one long enough and that's what it all boils down to. You could become so good of friends that it just ends up as more as well. I'd have to agree here. Alot of you guys are saying shits that made it like some kind of trick to get girls. Like "oh yeah if u get in this zone it's good, this zone is bad". Made it sounds like it's just a series of buttons you need to push in the correct order to give the right result, some kind of mystic concoction of events. I do not think so. Relationship is about communications and interactions, and a long term one, if that is what you desire, ultimately tests the friendship between the couple. If you just want some 4 week trial version, by all means do the tricks, dress nice, try to make her jealous, make it complicated and full of details. But if you want to keep it long, the friendzone is a good start because she will know if it works out and she knows you better than most. Understanding is very important. | ||
Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
If you're really stubborn then the best way to go about it is to stop being the wimpy friend. Don't make her the center of your world, have more important things to do than to spend time with her, when you are with her be fun, interesting and mysterious and make her work for your attention. Make it obvious that you are willing to pull the plug if she doesn't meet your expectations. Misinterpret everything she says, pick on her but don't be a clown. Have fun with or without her. When she gets interested in you start doing physical stuff - if she objects just roll back to what you were doing before and try later. If you're relaxed, having fun and escalating physically you'll win her over in no time. Pushing buttons works, being the shoulder to cry on and jacking off to her sleeping doesn't. | ||
Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
On May 30 2008 13:34 Last Romantic wrote: friends don't put friends in boxes. Oh you dawg The dreaded friend zone, be an asshole? | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5466 Posts
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
jacking off to her sleeping doesn't. O Rly? http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2008/03/woman-files-law.html @ OP: Just stop being her friend then. You can't be friends with someone you like as more than a friend, so stop pretending. Ask her out, and if it fails, move on. | ||
EnergyTraction
Canada233 Posts
If we continue to hang out after that then after awhile of doing various things I'm just gonna tell her that I like her and if she isn't comfortable with that then I guess I'll just stop hanging out with her to avoid feeling badly about it. | ||
QuanticHawk
United States32009 Posts
On May 30 2008 17:18 Doctorasul wrote: Go meet new girls, it's easier than dewimping yourself in the eyes of this one. If you're really stubborn then the best way to go about it is to stop being the wimpy friend. Don't make her the center of your world, have more important things to do than to spend time with her, when you are with her be fun, interesting and mysterious and make her work for your attention. Make it obvious that you are willing to pull the plug if she doesn't meet your expectations. Misinterpret everything she says, pick on her but don't be a clown. Have fun with or without her. When she gets interested in you start doing physical stuff - if she objects just roll back to what you were doing before and try later. If you're relaxed, having fun and escalating physically you'll win her over in no time. Pushing buttons works, being the shoulder to cry on and jacking off to her sleeping doesn't. Yeah, this works. Little partying doesn't hurt either!! | ||
Scorpion
United States1974 Posts
On May 30 2008 17:18 Doctorasul wrote: Go meet new girls, it's easier than dewimping yourself in the eyes of this one. If you're really stubborn then the best way to go about it is to stop being the wimpy friend. Don't make her the center of your world, have more important things to do than to spend time with her, when you are with her be fun, interesting and mysterious and make her work for your attention. Make it obvious that you are willing to pull the plug if she doesn't meet your expectations. Misinterpret everything she says, pick on her but don't be a clown. Have fun with or without her. When she gets interested in you start doing physical stuff - if she objects just roll back to what you were doing before and try later. If you're relaxed, having fun and escalating physically you'll win her over in no time. Pushing buttons works, being the shoulder to cry on and jacking off to her sleeping doesn't. I actually experienced this and can say that this works. I was the "shoulder to cry on" for this chick and I'd basically spill myself for her all the time but things never went anywhere. Then, out of nowhere, this other chick is interested in me but I pay no special attention to it because I really didn't have interest for her at first. We had met at parties and we made out at those parties(we were both high/drunk so we just said it was "spur of the moment" kind of things) so she wanted to start talking to me. We started hanging out in school but whenever she'd text me to go here or there I'd just be like "oh, can't, hanging with friends" or something. After treating her like a sack of shit for a week or so I end up asking her out. :DDD EDIT: Forgot to put that she said yes XP | ||
Chef
10810 Posts
Forgot to put that she said yes XP And that she was 13 and you were 18 :D | ||
useLess
United States4781 Posts
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UmmTheHobo
United States650 Posts
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Scorpion
United States1974 Posts
No, I'm 17, she's 18. Hahhahahaha ;D | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
I'm already married, and not likely that I'll get friend-zoned again, hooray!!! Given that I've been friend-zoned 3 times iirc I want to give some tips. I'm not alpha guy who strucks the girl at first time, I win girls over long time mostly. So here is my story: 1st was the most difficult and longest one. I ended up losing the girl while being in friend-zone. She didn't exactly use me, neither she told me to fuck off. I guess she knew that I was a potential boyfriend or husband. But I made a lot of mistakes and had bad qualities/behivours then. So I guess she was kinda waiting when I'm gonna realize it, but it was too late. 2nd one was rather short and I ended it myself. I was into the girl, but soon I realized I didn't like the girl. Funny though, when I lost interest in her she tried to win me back (as a boyfriend). 3rd one ended up rather good. We married. So here are my general tips: 1. Main rule: if you are in friend-zone its 100% that she is interested in you. Maybe she's keeping you as back up, or simply likes your company. That means a lot. She doesn't wanna lose you either way. 2. Don't always say ok. Try to help only with the things which she 'really' needs and doesn't consume a lot of time. Something quick and impactful. Imagine she is a guy friend, you'd say him fuck off if he asked something simple and stupid. Same applies here. 3. Don't try to be nice to her all the time. Being jerk also helps. Be somewhere in the middle. 4. Be independent. Don't ask where she was last night. Look like you don't care. But try to learn the information from other sources. 5. Make yourself busy, so that when she calls you could always say: Sorry I'm busy, gotta go to gym/swimming/whatever. But don't show off. 6. When you are meeting together with friends, or when you are in party... ignore her. 7. Never be romantic. 8. Look out for other guys (potential boyfriends she may end up with). If things are getting worse you gotta go all-in. I'm sure you get most of the idea. Killing blow, or moves you need to do to finally get out of the friendzone. 1. Meet/date a new girl, the hotter the girl the better the effect. Try to setup so that she(friendzoner girl) saw you together. But don't make it like you are to serious with the new girl. Even if the 'fake' date fails you already set up the alarm. Most likely your main target will start to think about you. 2. From now on you make your best to look good, be fit and (fake)happy. 3. Be romantic. But not towards your main target. 4. Set some serious goals in your life, it may be career, money or winning something, and let her know about it. A woman doesn't like man who seeks a life just to be with her. Mostly women like to be a support (as Sona, Soraka or Janna) to men who are trying to achieve something big. You may just fake this part 5. If everything works you will find her highly interested in you. Just dont 'fuck up' this time. 6. If nothing works, kiss her, or you may end up having sex. Most likely it will end your relation After having many ups and downs I realize this is the best method. Don't have high expectations, but atleast try. Everything is situational though. GL HF. | ||
zatic
Zurich15260 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
3. Don't try to be nice to her all the time. Being jerk also helps. Be somewhere in the middle. Be yourself. Don't be a jerk just because you think it will cause attraction. 4. Be independent. Don't ask where she was last night. Look like you don't care. But try to learn the information from other sources. Why would you "look like you don't care" if you're in love with her, this is just stupid. 6. When you are meeting together with friends, or when you are in party... ignore her. Don't ignore her, talk to her like you normally would. 7. Never be romantic. No better way to commence a romantic relationship. 1. Meet/date a new girl, the hotter the girl the better the effect. Try to setup so that she(friendzoner girl) saw you together. You're not only manipulating the girl you like and toying with her feelings, you're also using the other girl. If you do this you're a horrible person. 3. Be romantic. But not towards your main target. Quite the opposite, be romantic towards your main target. You're in the friendzone because you were being her friend. From now on gradually increase touching/flirting/teasing. Stop pretending to be her friend if you want to be more. What most guys are doing is faking to be just her friend, and then one day coming up to her, when they feel like it's the right time, and going all "I LOVE YOU!". She won't understand where your feeling are coming from, she won't like you anymore because you were pretending to be her friend, but just wanted to get in her pants; she will think you're a liar and she will not like you back. Want to get out of the friendzone? Man the fuck up and start letting her know. | ||
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
oh com'on wtf...even in the past (scrolled down randomly and stopped at this by chance...it feels its taunting me 0_o) | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On August 22 2012 22:41 Shock710 wrote: oh com'on wtf...even in the past (scrolled down randomly and stopped at this by chance...it feels its taunting me 0_o) Hahaha... Poor shock! =) Still talking to that girl on the bus then? | ||
aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
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Facultyadjutant
Sweden1876 Posts
[quote]3. Don't try to be nice to her all the time. Being jerk also helps. Be somewhere in the middle.[/quote] Be yourself. Don't be a jerk just because you think it will cause attraction. [quote].[/QUOTE] I agree with both, but have to alter the first one with: Don´t be too nice Have some independence, being the nice guy who does everything and then hopes that everything will work out because of him doing nice things don´t get you anywhere. But basically friendzone = A person who loves someone else and doesn´t do antything and just hopes that by some romantic miracle youl find each other. Stop sitting around and hoping for you two to work out and get out of the friendzone and just become friends with no angst inbetween. Just be active, it´s an easy game to play. | ||
Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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SarR
476 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On August 22 2012 22:58 Dirkzor wrote: Hahaha... Poor shock! =) Still talking to that girl on the bus then? nope, havnt spoken to her since i told her we couldnt be friends havnt seen her around lately as well, Except for today where i was late for my bus, and arrived barely on time. She was sitting in seat beside the door, smiled at me and i ignored her like a boss...feel bad tho lol | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 22 2012 22:38 Arcanefrost wrote: Be yourself. Don't be a jerk just because you think it will cause attraction. Why would you "look like you don't care" if you're in love with her, this is just stupid. Don't ignore her, talk to her like you normally would. No better way to commence a romantic relationship. You're not only manipulating the girl you like and toying with her feelings, you're also using the other girl. If you do this you're a horrible person. Quite the opposite, be romantic towards your main target. You're in the friendzone because you were being her friend. From now on gradually increase touching/flirting/teasing. Stop pretending to be her friend if you want to be more. What most guys are doing is faking to be just her friend, and then one day coming up to her, when they feel like it's the right time, and going all "I LOVE YOU!". She won't understand where your feeling are coming from, she won't like you anymore because you were pretending to be her friend, but just wanted to get in her pants; she will think you're a liar and she will not like you back. Want to get out of the friendzone? Man the fuck up and start letting her know. C'mon stop this bullshit, being nice and trying to be 'romantic' never works for that kind of girl. If it worked the girl would already be yours. These girls, who friendzone, typically like strong guys who are not romantized and don't seek to find love and such. They like the guys who are independent and are capable of doing something real, not giving flowers or just flirting. If you are really into that kind of girl you have to move away from standard romantic stereotype. Believe me, me and my wife, we don't chit chat or nice to eachother all the time. Don't get me wrong, we love each other. We have our romantic times when we need it, but mostly we are cold minded and work towards our goals. Its a real world, deal with it. You're not only manipulating the girl you like and toying with her feelings, you're also using the other girl. If you do this you're a horrible person. isn't friendzoning also manipulating? why guys can't use technics, afterall I am treating the girl. | ||
Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
But if you're seeking a real relationship you have to be yourself or else it wont work anyway. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 23 2012 15:46 Kleinmuuhg wrote: ^Well if you only want to get with the girl for some limited amount of time you can use those tricks (ignoring her and such). But if you're seeking a real relationship you have to be yourself or else it wont work anyway. The problem is, you're in love with her, and when a person is in love he does stupid stuff. Unless you control yourself and show a bit of ego you can't win her. Suppose this, you work somewhere and new recruit arrives, he will do everything to please you and tries hard not to fuck up, always addresses you as 'sir' and so on. You're always gonna look to him from above, right? Same is in friend-zone. | ||
Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
But controling yourself and showing a bit of ego =/= being a dick and trying to push buttons (at least to me). I can see why people still do this, because they're doing stupid stuff , like you say. Also, related to the guy below me: + Show Spoiler + | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
take it from me... I used to get pretty much zero female interest, but now, I can get a girl's attention pretty easily. it's all in the way you act. most women like it when men take charge and show that confident streak. you can be a girl's best friend AND her shoulder to cry on AS WELL AS her boyfriend if you play your cards right. don't listen to anyone who says you need to play games or fake it to get female attention. just be confident and assertive and be yourself. everything else will fall into place when you do. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 23 2012 15:56 Kleinmuuhg wrote: You're right. But controling yourself and showing a bit of ego =/= being a dick and trying to push buttons (at least to me). I can see why people still do this, because they're doing stupid stuff , like you say. Also, related to the guy below me: + Show Spoiler + Well, I never told to be a jerk. I guess I was trying to say not to be too nice. Girls also do mistakes, and sometimes you need to be harsh, and not it let it go by. I know usually friend-zoned guys would be like 'Its ok, you did it by accident, dont worry' which pins them into deeper shit. And, I think the post above is a much better advice. | ||
FrodaN
754 Posts
On August 23 2012 16:00 iamahydralisk wrote: most women like it when men take charge and show that confident streak. you can be a girl's best friend AND her shoulder to cry on AS WELL AS her boyfriend if you play your cards right. don't listen to anyone who says you need to play games or fake it to get female attention. just be confident and assertive and be yourself. everything else will fall into place when you do. There is some truth to this. I learned the hard way to not play games like pretending you will hang out/call then not do it. You do want to be conversationally assertive. A nice, applicable tip is to be a minor asshole (girls that enjoy compliment showers are really not worth my time because they're super insecure), but genuinely laugh at her jokes to show that you like her company. If she's not funny, then don't laugh because fakeness is lame and unless the girl is drunk off her ass they usually can sniff it out. From experience, a veryyyyyyyy easy way to get friend zoned early on is to try and have extremely deep, meaningful conversation. Just like anything, start light and let the interest peak naturally. Oh, last thing! Always better to strike out swinging then get caught lookin'. That's my policy at least You miss 100% of the shots you don't take...all that bullshit. One day you just gotta stop pussying out and be straight. Don't let the fear control you! | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 22 2012 20:06 bokeevboke wrote: Somehow I got into 'friend-zone' term while surfing internet. Quite an interesting guy-topic. Not much stuff in TL about it though. I'm already married, and not likely that I'll get friend-zoned again, hooray!!! Given that I've been friend-zoned 3 times iirc I want to give some tips. I'm not alpha guy who strucks the girl at first time, I win girls over long time mostly. So here is my story: 1st was the most difficult and longest one. I ended up losing the girl while being in friend-zone. She didn't exactly use me, neither she told me to fuck off. I guess she knew that I was a potential boyfriend or husband. But I made a lot of mistakes and had bad qualities/behivours then. So I guess she was kinda waiting when I'm gonna realize it, but it was too late. 2nd one was rather short and I ended it myself. I was into the girl, but soon I realized I didn't like the girl. Funny though, when I lost interest in her she tried to win me back (as a boyfriend). 3rd one ended up rather good. We married. So here are my general tips: 1. Main rule: if you are in friend-zone its 100% that she is interested in you. Maybe she's keeping you as back up, or simply likes your company. That means a lot. She doesn't wanna lose you either way. 2. Don't always say ok. Try to help only with the things which she 'really' needs and doesn't consume a lot of time. Something quick and impactful. Imagine she is a guy friend, you'd say him fuck off if he asked something simple and stupid. Same applies here. 3. Don't try to be nice to her all the time. Being jerk also helps. Be somewhere in the middle. 4. Be independent. Don't ask where she was last night. Look like you don't care. But try to learn the information from other sources. 5. Make yourself busy, so that when she calls you could always say: Sorry I'm busy, gotta go to gym/swimming/whatever. But don't show off. 6. When you are meeting together with friends, or when you are in party... ignore her. 7. Never be romantic. 8. Look out for other guys (potential boyfriends she may end up with). If things are getting worse you gotta go all-in. I'm sure you get most of the idea. Killing blow, or moves you need to do to finally get out of the friendzone. 1. Meet/date a new girl, the hotter the girl the better the effect. Try to setup so that she(friendzoner girl) saw you together. But don't make it like you are to serious with the new girl. Even if the 'fake' date fails you already set up the alarm. Most likely your main target will start to think about you. 2. From now on you make your best to look good, be fit and (fake)happy. 3. Be romantic. But not towards your main target. 4. Set some serious goals in your life, it may be career, money or winning something, and let her know about it. A woman doesn't like man who seeks a life just to be with her. Mostly women like to be a support (as Sona, Soraka or Janna) to men who are trying to achieve something big. You may just fake this part 5. If everything works you will find her highly interested in you. Just dont 'fuck up' this time. 6. If nothing works, kiss her, or you may end up having sex. Most likely it will end your relation After having many ups and downs I realize this is the best method. Don't have high expectations, but atleast try. Everything is situational though. GL HF. This guy KNOWS HIS SHIT! These things DO WORK(well most of it, there are some things I disagree with). If you're too soft to bend morality in the pursuit of pussy or even relationships then you have no business looking for women. You guys need to accept the reality that the game is about manipulation. You all have way too many romantic ideals about how people really are. For fuck's sake grow up. EDIT: To point out something:- On August 22 2012 20:06 bokeevboke wrote: Killing blow, or moves you need to do to finally get out of the friendzone. 1. Meet/date a new girl, the hotter the girl the better the effect. Try to setup so that she(friendzoner girl) saw you together. But don't make it like you are to serious with the new girl. Even if the 'fake' date fails you already set up the alarm. Most likely your main target will start to think about you. The above is an unbelievably powerful strategy. If a girl hotter than her is showing interest then something must be up. Think of a courtship like a screening. If a hotter girl is interested in you then you have been pre-screened by someone qualified so she knows you're a good product and will want to purchase. Don;t ask me why these things are so, its just the way women are wired. | ||
Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:17 SarR wrote: This guy KNOWS HIS SHIT! These things DO WORK(well most of it, there are some things I disagree with). If you're too soft to bend morality in the pursuit of pussy or even relationships then you have no business looking for women. You guys need to accept the reality that the game is about manipulation. You all have way too many romantic ideals about how people really are. For fuck's sake grow up. I disagree with this, I would advice going for integrity in everything you do. If you are genuinely nice to a girl (nice doesn't mean being her puppy of course) and have good energy, you don't need to resort to manipulation and tricks. Be an honest, confident, assertive, independent, nice guy, and people will like you for the right reasons. If you choose to manipulate women, they will get on to you eventually and your relationship will fall. Be a man of integrity, treat women with respect and leave them better than you found them. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:40 Arcanefrost wrote: I disagree with this, I would advice going for integrity in everything you do. If you are genuinely nice to a girl (nice doesn't mean being her puppy of course) and have good energy, you don't need to resort to manipulation and tricks. Be an honest, confident, assertive, independent, nice guy, and people will like you for the right reasons. If you choose to manipulate women, they will get on to you eventually and your relationship will fall. Be a man of integrity, treat women with respect and leave them better than you found them. Agree with this 100%. Too many people confuse the term "nice guy" with "pushover guy who does anything a girl wants." It's entirely possible (and even easy) to be nice, but still interesting to women. Being an ass or playing games isn't key; confidence is. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
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SarR
476 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:40 Arcanefrost wrote: Be an honest, confident, assertive, independent, nice guy, and people will like you for the right reasons. That statement is a contradiction. You cannot be assertive and a nice guy at the same time. Assertive people are usually the kind of people to be quite blunt about their opinions. People often interpret such a person as an asshole. This shit is insanely attractive to women. A man who says whatever is on his mind without a fuck of a care about what other think of him has little trouble with women. On August 23 2012 23:46 iamahydralisk wrote: Being an ass or playing games isn't key; confidence is. Then why does it work ? On August 23 2012 23:53 iamahydralisk wrote: If you want a real relationship, though, you have to build a real foundation or it's all going to come crashing down later. It's really hard to do that if you're playing a lot of silly games or doing the whole "fakedick" routine. In other words get boring and predictable ? WRONG, she's gonna end up fuckin some guy at work or maybe your brother or your best friend, just anybody more interesting than you. Play games, get in her head, make her jealous, make her cry, when she gets you angry tell her to "shut the fuck up" or give her the silent treatment, pound the table and stare her in her eye like you wanna snap her neck when she says or does some bullshit you don't approve of. Do these things from time to time(please note not all the time) and she'd come to worship the ground you walk on. I shit you not when I say this. | ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 24 2012 04:41 SarR wrote: That statement is a contradiction. You cannot be assertive and a nice guy at the same time. Assertive people are usually the kind of people to be quite blunt about their opinions. People often interpret such a person as an asshole. This shit is insanely attractive to women. A man who says whatever is on his mind without a fuck of a care about what other think of him has little trouble with women. Then why does it work ? In other words get boring and predictable ? WRONG, she's gonna end up fuckin some guy at work or maybe your brother or your best friend, just anybody more interesting than you. Play games, get in her head, make her jealous, make her cry, when she gets you angry tell her to "shut the fuck up" or give her the silent treatment, pound the table and stare her in her eye like you wanna snap her neck when she says or does some bullshit you don't approve of. Do these things from time to time(please note not all the time) and she'd come to worship the ground you walk on. I shit you not when I say this. What the fuck? that's just plain fucking abusive. Maybe you could try actually being a person , having opinions doesn't make one an asshole. Being comfortable with who you are and not hiding it =/= being a fucking asshole. I mean I can understand making a girl cry if it's just a mis match of personalities or something and there's no real romance. But going out of your way to make a girl who you're going out with/interested in cry is pathetic, and clearly abusive emotionally. Anyone who should read this thread , do not take the above advice. It is completely ludicrous. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 04:41 SarR wrote: That statement is a contradiction. You cannot be assertive and a nice guy at the same time. Assertive people are usually the kind of people to be quite blunt about their opinions. People often interpret such a person as an asshole. This shit is insanely attractive to women. A man who says whatever is on his mind without a fuck of a care about what other think of him has little trouble with women. Then why does it work ? In other words get boring and predictable ? WRONG, she's gonna end up fuckin some guy at work or maybe your brother or your best friend, just anybody more interesting than you. Play games, get in her head, make her jealous, make her cry, when she gets you angry tell her to "shut the fuck up" or give her the silent treatment, pound the table and stare her in her eye like you wanna snap her neck when she says or does some bullshit you don't approve of. Do these things from time to time(please note not all the time) and she'd come to worship the ground you walk on. I shit you not when I say this. I'm not even going to respond to you lol. your views of relationships are clearly warped and childish to anyone with half a brain. | ||
r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
Physical escalation + friendship = sexual relationship. The end. There is no other theme in the whole context of seduction that's as misunderstood as escalating from the friendzone. It's incredibly easy. Just the guys who usually end up there don't have the attitude, the frame, to actually get it done properly. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 05:02 Elsid wrote: What the fuck? that's just plain fucking abusive. Notice I said in brackets not all the time. If you do this all the time only then its abusive. As a guideline, you should think of it as punishing bad behavior. Too many times men let their better halves off with “Oh its ok honey”. NO...its not okay. You make her very aware how much you don't like it. The volume of your rage/reaction would be related how bad the offense was. Eg. Blowing you off for a date or a meeting should earn her the brooding silence with soul tearing cold stares as you slowly come around while she profusely apologizes. Flirting with another man or even the appearance of it should earn a period of indifference where you just don't give a shit about anything she does or how she's feeling or how her sick mother is doing, even indicating, by actions more than words, that you're ready to walk out of the relationship.(this is a power play, you have the power to walk out any time you want.). Its about know when and what punishments to apply. Don't let them off easy. On August 24 2012 05:02 Elsid wrote: Maybe you could try actually being a person , having opinions doesn't make one an asshole. Being comfortable with who you are and not hiding it =/= being a fucking asshole. Thats easy when you're opinions are alligned with all the politcally correct bullshit 90% of people cling too. Lets see you not be an asshole when your opinions differ and even offend others. See how that works out for ya. On August 24 2012 05:02 Elsid wrote: But going out of your way to make a girl who you're going out with/interested in cry is pathetic, and clearly abusive emotionally. This got my dick sucked and deep-throated, something I had trouble making happen on the best moods with a particular someone I was fuckin. As for it being abusive, my experience has been that the women become more agreeable, pliant and accomodating....at least until I do it again. If that's pathetic, the I strongly advise all men to be just as pathetic. I take it as a badge of honor. I'm sorry if my ideas offend you but my experience has taught me these things and they NEVER EVER fail....sorry I should also mention that this is no game to me. Doing these things come as natural as breathing to me. I'm just trying to tell you guys what works. | ||
Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On August 24 2012 04:41 SarR wrote: That statement is a contradiction. You cannot be assertive and a nice guy at the same time. Assertive people are usually the kind of people to be quite blunt about their opinions. People often interpret such a person as an asshole. This shit is insanely attractive to women. A man who says whatever is on his mind without a fuck of a care about what other think of him has little trouble with women. Then why does it work ? In other words get boring and predictable ? WRONG, she's gonna end up fuckin some guy at work or maybe your brother or your best friend, just anybody more interesting than you. Play games, get in her head, make her jealous, make her cry, when she gets you angry tell her to "shut the fuck up" or give her the silent treatment, pound the table and stare her in her eye like you wanna snap her neck when she says or does some bullshit you don't approve of. Do these things from time to time(please note not all the time) and she'd come to worship the ground you walk on. I shit you not when I say this. Being assertive is a part of integrity, it is standing by your opinion while respecting others. It is not the same as being an asshole. You're right, playing games can work. But you're on a crossroad here, and you can choose manipulation or integrity. If you want to lie, manipulate and play games with girl you can do that, but after a while these women will hate you, and in the ennd you won't like yourself anymore either. If you think sleeping with a lot of women will fill that hole inside of you, make you look at yourself in the mirror and be proud of what you see, you're wrong. The other option is integrity, being honest and confident. You like people who are real and genuinely nice, but do you like people who are fake and manipulate? Hell no. These things you say can work, but just reread what you just wrote. This is another person we're talking about, she is someone's daughter or sister, respect her and leave her better than you found her. What you are describing is pure emotional abuse, how could you ever make someone you love cry/feel jealous/... or yell at her/make her feel horrible/... for no reason but to drag her further into your grip. It doesn't even matter whether it works, if you live like this you're a sad person. It's up to you, but I'd chose integrity any day. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 05:38 iamahydralisk wrote: I'm not even going to respond to you lol. your views of relationships are clearly warped and childish to anyone with half a brain. Being childish is not a bad trade for getting pussy so I have no problem with your assessment of me | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 05:53 Arcanefrost wrote: Being assertive is a part of integrity, it is standing by your opinion while respecting others. It is not the same as being an asshole. You're right, playing games can work. But you're on a crossroad here, and you can choose manipulation or integrity. If you want to lie, manipulate and play games with girl you can do that, but after a while these women will hate you, and in the ennd you won't like yourself anymore either. If you think sleeping with a lot of women will fill that hole inside of you, make you look at yourself in the mirror and be proud of what you see, you're wrong. The other option is integrity, being honest and confident. You like people who are real and genuinely nice, but do you like people who are fake and manipulate? Hell no. These things you say can work, but just reread what you just wrote. This is another person we're talking about, she is someone's daughter or sister, respect her and leave her better than you found her. What you are describing is pure emotional abuse, how could you ever make someone you love cry/feel jealous/... or yell at her/make her feel horrible/... for no reason but to drag her further into your grip. It doesn't even matter whether it works, if you live like this you're a sad person. It's up to you, but I'd chose integrity any day. great post here. sure, playing games can work, but IMO, a good rule of thumb for relationships (and a lot of things in life) is that you get out what you put in. good attracts good and bad attracts bad. in other words, if you put in lies and deceit, you're going to attract girls who will do the same thing to you. lying and playing emotionally abusive games might get you laid, sure, but it's never going to get you a long lasting, healthy relationship with the girl of your dreams. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 05:57 SarR wrote: Being childish is not a bad trade for getting pussy so I have no problem with your assessment of me aaaand you just proved my point. if all you care about is getting laid, then glhf. you can find plenty of skanks who'll rip their panties off for you (that's more because they're skanks and less because your method works, though). good luck trying to have a healthy and long lasting relationship with a genuine woman, though. women who actually want more than casual sex (hint: something monogamous followed by settling down) will see through your bullshit eventually and you'll get your ass kicked to the curb. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 05:53 Arcanefrost wrote: These things you say can work, but just reread what you just wrote. This is another person we're talking about, she is someone's daughter or sister, respect her and leave her better than you found her. What you are describing is pure emotional abuse, how could you ever make someone you love cry/feel jealous/... or yell at her/make her feel horrible/... for no reason but to drag her further into your grip. It doesn't even matter whether it works, if you live like this you're a sad person. It's up to you, but I'd chose integrity any day. Well its either that or she'll lose attraction for you and eventually cheat on you or make you a cuckold. Its sounds twisted, I know, but its the truth. Also, for everybody thats saying that its being a liar or fake, you're not getting what I'm saying. You can be honest, genuine and all that other shit or you can lie, that doesn't matter. Its not about that, its about how you do it. Do it like a man. Something tastes like shit, say it "tastes like shit". Don't sugar coat it like some beta nerdy nice guy just to be agreeable. Be disagreeable. Women love that. She does something silly or even mildly offensive. Call her on it. Be a little brutal even foul mouthed but NOT bitter. Do it with a big shit eating grin or a maybe a slightly arrongant smirk or maybe even a straight face. You have to have a kind of disconnect with your environment, kinda like you own it. This attitude is very alluring. All the so called "abusive" stuff I talked about is for relationships only. Don;t do that with someone you just met. That will turn her off(I'm not even too certain about that). | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
| ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:16 SarR wrote: Well its either that or she'll lose attraction for you and eventually cheat on you or make you a cuckold. Its sounds twisted, I know, but its the truth. Also, for everybody thats saying that its being a liar or fake, you're not getting what I'm saying. You can be honest, genuine and all that other shit or you can lie, that doesn't matter. Its not about that, its about how you do it. Do it like a man. Something tastes like shit, say it "tastes like shit". Don't sugar coat it like some beta nerdy nice guy just to be agreeable. Be disagreeable. Women love that. She does something silly or even mildly offensive. Call her on it. Be a little brutal even foul mouthed but NOT bitter. Do it with a big shit eating grin or a maybe a slightly arrongant smirk or maybe even a straight face. You have to have a kind of disconnect with your environment, kinda like you own it. This attitude is very alluring. All the so called "abusive" stuff I talked about is for relationships only. Don;t do that with someone you just met. That will turn her off(I'm not even too certain about that). What part of the phrase be yourself states that you shouldn't voice your opinions on things? I'll give you a hint , it doesn't it infact implies that you should made your opinions known where applicable. You on the other hand are advocating being disagreeable and being a dick on purpose. It's clear from your first sentence that you're misogynistic and have issues with women. You should perhaps work on that before you go and try to give advice :l | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:20 Elsid wrote: It's clear from your first sentence that you're misogynistic and have issues with women. You should perhaps work on that before you go and try to give advice :l It works. I couldn't care less weather anyone thinks I'm misogynistic. My attitude gets results, thats all I'm concerned about. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:33 SarR wrote: It works. I couldn't care less weather anyone thinks I'm misogynistic. My attitude gets results, thats all I'm concerned about. what you keep refusing to realize is that your definition of "results" is very different than most of ours. again, for the 3rd time, if all you wanna do is get your dick wet, then congrats, you're doing it... but don't act like this is the way all men should act, because your methods will not work if you want an open and healthy relationship with an amazing woman. pretty much everyone in this thread would agree with me on that (which is the reason that nobody is agreeing with you). | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:20 iamahydralisk wrote: hint: all the abusive stuff you talked about will turn good women off in relationships too... You're dead wrong about that. It does the exact opposite. Women don't love for a lack of it, or in spite of it but because of it. Its how their attraction works. Weird ? Sure. Twisted ? Maybe....but ultimately true. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:37 SarR wrote: You're dead wrong about that. It does the exact opposite. Women don't love for a lack of it, or in spite of it but because of it. Its how their attraction works. Weird ? Sure. Twisted ? Maybe....but ultimately true. you're completely wrong and everyone here disagrees with you. you will never have a healthy and long-lasting relationship with a morally decent person. and you'll probably get your mind blown to fucking bits if you ever manage to get a relationship with a loyal, caring woman (you'll be the one falling for her and she'll shatter your world one day). and you'll remember this blog when it happens. glhf bro, and for your own sake, I sincerely hope you change your ways. | ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:33 SarR wrote: It works. I couldn't care less weather anyone thinks I'm misogynistic. My attitude gets results, thats all I'm concerned about. Getting a woman drunk to unconscious can get your dick wet too, doesn't make it any less abusive. | ||
Aerisky
United States12128 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:37 SarR wrote: You're dead wrong about that. It does the exact opposite. Women don't love for a lack of it, or in spite of it but because of it. Its how their attraction works. Weird ? Sure. Twisted ? Maybe....but ultimately true. I think in the context of a long-term relationship or a spouse, treating women poorly will not work out well for you. But yes, even when you're married and living stably with a significant other, having some adventure and/or being confident and/or unafraid to voice your opinion bluntly can be a good thing of course. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:47 Aerisky wrote: I think in the context of a long-term relationship or a spouse, treating women poorly will not work out well for you. But yes, even when you're married and living stably with a significant other, having some adventure and/or being confident and/or unafraid to voice your opinion bluntly can be a good thing of course. none of us are advocating being boring or unconfident haha. simply that one doesn't need to be a huge asshole to be adventurous or confident | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:36 iamahydralisk wrote: what you keep refusing to realize is that your definition of "results" is very different than most of ours. again, for the 3rd time, if all you wanna do is get your dick wet, then congrats, you're doing it... but don't act like this is the way all men should act, because your methods will not work if you want an open and healthy relationship with an amazing woman. pretty much everyone in this thread would agree with me on that (which is the reason that nobody is agreeing with you). Every time I come to the blog section here, there is always a blog about one of you failing spectacularly with women and what follows is usually advice that demonstrate a severe lack of understanding of women, basically advice that would guarantee more failure. The truth is, you guys suck with women. I'm not trying to be insulting or anything but thats the truth. Please understand that as twisted as my advice may sound, it is the truth. I can GUARANTEE that. I am trying to help by weighing in my experiences here. Also, you're saying that its only if one wants "to get his dick wet". Its not actually. Most of you want fullfilling relationships with loving better halves. But I KNOW that you don't get that by being well....nice. You have to know how to play on a woman's emotions. Both good and bad but since I gather that most of you guys know how to do the good(gamers are usually very agreeable nice guys), I focused mainly on the bad(jealousy, silent treatment etc.) but don;t kid yourself, you need both. I remember most of you when I was more active here and still playing BW, expressing such surprise that Idra got a hot girlfriend. It doesn't surprise me. He is one cocky trash talking asshole. Thats why he can score a babe like that. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:43 Elsid wrote: Getting a woman drunk to unconscious can get your dick wet too, doesn't make it any less abusive. Classic strawman. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
I'd take that a step further and actually even involve her in the helping out and setting up parts of it. Make her feel invested in you. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:48 SarR wrote: Every time I come to the blog section here, there is always a blog about one of you failing spectacularly with women and what follows is usually advice that demonstrate a severe lack of understanding of women, basically advice that would guarantee more failure. The truth is, you guys suck with women. I'm not trying to be insulting or anything but thats the truth. Please understand that as twisted as my advice may sound, it is the truth. I can GUARANTEE that. I am trying to help by weighing in my experiences here. Also, you're saying that its only if one wants "to get his dick wet". Its not actually. Most of you want fullfilling relationships with loving better halves. But I KNOW that you don't get that by being well....nice. You have to know how to play on a woman's emotions. Both good and bad but since I gather that most of you guys know how to do the good(gamers are usually very agreeable nice guys), I focused mainly on the bad(jealousy, silent treatment etc.) but don;t kid yourself, you need both. I remember most of you when I was more active here and still playing BW, expressing such surprise that Idra got a hot girlfriend. It doesn't surprise me. He is one cocky trash talking asshole. Thats why he can score a babe like that. your entire post basically amounts to "i know better than all of you and you all suck with women." come on man. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
| ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
It wasn't so much a straw-man as establishing the principle that the end does not justify the means , this is in contention with your "my attitude gets results, that's all i'm concerned about". It's argument by analogy not straw-man. Edit: Also I'm not sure where you saw me making a girl blog considering I've never made one and I don't recall posting in one much less posting in one where I gave bad advice. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:56 SarR wrote: Well I do know better than you guys, do I actually need to say that ?. I read the responses to girl blogs and cringe. Its just unbelievable. Its like reading an essay of a non english speaker who took a two week english class. I mean come on. lol. you're a sad, sad person, and I sincerely hope you're just trolling. right now, your behavior is a classic case of denial (of the fact that you may be wrong) and everyone else but you can see it. saying things like "I know better than you guys" makes you sound like a gigantic tool. you act as if nobody here has ever had a relationship except you, but let me tell you... many of us have, and most of them were built on much more honest foundations than anything you'll ever have with a woman as long as you have such mysoginistic views. you honestly sound like someone who's horribly depressed and you're trying to fill that by fucking as many girls as you can. I really think you should get some counseling, and I mean that in the best way possible. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
| ||
SarR
476 Posts
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world. This is how a man handles a woman. This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ? There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread. | ||
JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 24 2012 06:33 SarR wrote: It works. I couldn't care less weather anyone thinks I'm misogynistic. My attitude gets results, thats all I'm concerned about. This sounds like what a rapist would say. | ||
Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:32 SarR wrote: This is what TL thinks will work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07AQHtnxMI This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world. This is how a man handles a woman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nACj50uq6_s&feature=related This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ? There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread. You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? No one arguing against you is advocating the attitude shown in that first video as a general approach to 'pursuing women'. You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest. And, of course, you've always got to remember that women aren't all the same (and neither are men etc.). | ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:32 SarR wrote: This is what TL thinks will work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07AQHtnxMI This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world. This is how a man handles a woman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nACj50uq6_s&feature=related This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ? There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread. Total false dichotomy. | ||
iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:52 Ryalnos wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 07:32 SarR wrote: This is what TL thinks will work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07AQHtnxMI This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world. This is how a man handles a woman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nACj50uq6_s&feature=related This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ? There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread. You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? No one arguing against you is advocating the attitude shown in that first video as a general approach to 'pursuing women'. You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest. And, of course, you've always got to remember that women aren't all the same (and neither are men etc.). Bolded part ding ding ding. Nobody in this thread is advocating being a pushover that grovels at the feet of women and does everything they say. To SarR: You need to stop acting like you either have to be A. A wimpy "nice guy" who lets women control him or B. A jerkass who controls women. It's not nearly as black and white as you seem to think it is. The fact is, there is a very happy medium between the two, that being a confident, assertive man who is still nice to his lady and treats her well. In other words, a true gentleman. You seem to be going by the phrase "nice guys finish last," but that phrase is a giant misconception because it isn't really talking about nice guys. It means guys who have no backbone and are basically slaves to women. ACTUAL nice but confident, genuine and assertive guys are most girls' dream guys. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 24 2012 08:21 iamahydralisk wrote: Bolded part ding ding ding. Nobody in this thread is advocating being a pushover that grovels at the feet of women and does everything they say. To SarR: You need to stop acting like you either have to be A. A wimpy "nice guy" who lets women control him or B. A jerkass who controls women. It's not nearly as black and white as you seem to think it is. The fact is, there is a very happy medium between the two, that being a confident, assertive man who is still nice to his lady and treats her well. In other words, a true gentleman. You seem to be going by the phrase "nice guys finish last," but that phrase is a giant misconception because it isn't really talking about nice guys. It means guys who have no backbone and are basically slaves to women. ACTUAL nice but confident, genuine and assertive guys are most girls' dream guys. The biggest thing is to stop thinking "I have to act/be a certain way/do certain things to get a girl." and instead think "how do I find a girl that fits with how I act/am/do things." That, and also make sure that the girl isn't thinking of herself all the time. Do the door test: | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:52 JoeSchmoe wrote: This sounds like what a rapist would say. Wow you guys really have a talent for strawman arguments. Rape denies the will of the victim, what I'm talking about doesn't. Women come of their own free will. Nice try though. On August 24 2012 07:52 Ryalnos wrote: You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? I'm no longer interested in SC but I still visit here. The place I visit now is the blog section and I only really pay attention to girl blogs because....well to be frank, none of the other topics really interest me. The point I'm making here is that I've read quite a few girl blogs here even though I may not post in them most times. They're practically the only thing I read here now and the discussions about the opposite sex that take place there have shaped this image in my mind about how some of you are when you deal with women. You're right, it is a strawman. Will Smith's character in that movie is not really the image that comes to mind when reading about your interactions with the opposite sex. The guy from the movie Hall Pass with the hot wife(Christina Applegate) who wanted to fuck(or did fuck, I can't remember) the younger guy is a far more accurate portrayal of what I had in mind. But I couldn't find a clip of him so I used one with as close a portrayal as I could find. I'll concede that it may be a strawman but the way you guys pedestalize women gives me that impression. Its ironic that you guys think I'm I don't treat a woman as a person when its you all that are guilty of that when you pedestalize them. On August 24 2012 07:52 Ryalnos wrote: You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest. True, but its not respect I'm talking about, its attraction. On August 24 2012 07:54 Elsid wrote: Total false dichotomy. True, there is a gray area but I'd lean towards the second example more than the first. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 08:21 iamahydralisk wrote: Bolded part ding ding ding. Nobody in this thread is advocating being a pushover that grovels at the feet of women and does everything they say. To SarR: You need to stop acting like you either have to be A. A wimpy "nice guy" who lets women control him or B. A jerkass who controls women. It's not nearly as black and white as you seem to think it is. The fact is, there is a very happy medium between the two, that being a confident, assertive man who is still nice to his lady and treats her well. In other words, a true gentleman. You seem to be going by the phrase "nice guys finish last," but that phrase is a giant misconception because it isn't really talking about nice guys. It means guys who have no backbone and are basically slaves to women. ACTUAL nice but confident, genuine and assertive guys are most girls' dream guys. Ok, I can see that you get it, although I'd leave out the gentleman part. But I agree there is a medium between the two extremes. Good post. I'll say this, its better to err on the side of being too much of an asshole than being too little. | ||
JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 24 2012 08:50 SarR wrote: Wow you guys really have a talent for strawman arguments. Rape denies the will of the victim, what I'm talking about doesn't. Women come of their own free will. Nice try though. Strawman argument? Where did I make an argument? I was merely pointing out a personal observation but by all means, overreact and get extremely defensive about it! | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 24 2012 09:43 JoeSchmoe wrote: Strawman argument? Where did I make an argument? I was merely pointing out a personal observation but by all means, overreact and get extremely defensive about it! Can we have one of the TL ladies come here and adjudicate? Bunch of dudes wanking on this thread is not going to get this discussion anywhere. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is. Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 24 2012 15:28 bokeevboke wrote: to all those who say be yourself and be honest, then you get the girl, try this: There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is. Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever. i guess, although maybe the better solution is to really change yourself into a more decent person? I honestly believe that the human race has evolved for the better since our ape ancestors largely because of how women choose men and how men compete for women. | ||
Aerisky
United States12128 Posts
Like everything it's not black and white, and everyone knows this. It's sort of a case-by-case thing and everyone will eventually find a girl, realistically speaking. Sometimes it's about changing yourself to attract them to you, sometimes it's about finding someone who is attracted to you for who you are, and sometimes it's just whatever I guess | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 24 2012 15:50 Shady Sands wrote: i guess, although maybe the better solution is to really change yourself into a more decent person? if girls don't like you that doesn't mean you are a bad person. Why would you wanna change yourself? Maybe you're good the way you are, just not likeable, the way you walk, the way you pronounce the words, the way you look, the way you gesture... these stuff are not easy to change. You can't just become someone new. I honestly believe that the human race has evolved for the better since our ape ancestors largely because of how women choose men and how men compete for women. sorry but this is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:32 SarR wrote: This is what TL thinks will work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07AQHtnxMI This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world. This is how a man handles a woman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nACj50uq6_s&feature=related This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ? There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread. This guy tries to talk sense and does the best way he can. He might go too extreme, but generally speaking most of it is true. You don't have to do the exact stuff but you get the general idea, which is not to be cocky and jerk all the time, be at least in equal level with the girl. | ||
r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
On August 24 2012 15:28 bokeevboke wrote: to all those who say be yourself and be honest, then you get the girl, try this: There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is. Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever. Wrong. As I said earlier, the only difference between a friendship and sexual relationship is... SEX. Friendship + sexual escalation = sexual relationship. Escalating from the friendzone isn't hard, just the people who usually end up there by accident aren't the ones with the frame or mindset to do so easily. On the whole topic about jerk vs no jerk, both sides are getting their argument wrong. "To be dominant" means to lead, but also to protect. Both components are crucial in the long run, their combination is what makes one insanely attractive. | ||
JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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SarR
476 Posts
On August 24 2012 09:49 Shady Sands wrote: Can we have one of the TL ladies come here and adjudicate? Bunch of dudes wanking on this thread is not going to get this discussion anywhere. Actually, I don't think this would be very helpful as the ladies here seem rather different. Riku for instance is quite a unique individual with a very peculiar personality and loves eccentric forms of recreation. Its quite abnormal for an attractive young woman. Its not bad, just different. It may very well be that she would be an exception. Its quite possible for her to be attracted to stereotypically unattractive guys not that there is anything wrong with that. Unfortunately, the vast majority of attractive young women are not like her. So we cannot consider such rare minorities in this discussion. You need to tailor your approach to someone lacking her eccentricity. However, RedJustice seems to be a grounded, normal enough individual who may be able to add weight to this discussion. Although, there is a chance that even she may be an exception as I don't know any young woman who'd consider trying to be good at SC an enjoyable way to spend time. But from what I've observed, she seems to be the least eccentric woman here. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:27 SarR wrote: Actually, I don't think this would be very helpful as the ladies here seem rather different. Riku for instance is quite a unique individual with a very peculiar personality and loves eccentric forms of recreation. Its quite abnormal for an attractive young woman. Its not bad, just different. It may very well be that she would be an exception. Its quite possible for her to be attracted to stereotypically unattractive guys not that there is anything wrong with that. Unfortunately, the vast majority of attractive young women are not like her. So we cannot consider such rare minorities in this discussion. You need to tailor your approach to someone lacking her eccentricity. However, RedJustice seems to be a grounded, normal enough individual who may be able to add weight to this discussion. Although, there is a chance that even she may be an exception as I don't know any young woman who'd consider trying to be good at SC an enjoyable way to spend time. But from what I've observed, she seems to be the least eccentric woman here. Er, I was thinking Keir, since she seems pretty cool for making food blogs and stuff, but I guess you know a lot more girls on this site than I do. PM away | ||
SarR
476 Posts
Also, most women either don;t know or will never admit the are attracted to assholes so we could also be inviting denial masqurading as truth. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: Nah....I'm sure she has better things to do than enter such a volatile discussion that most likey will offend her. Besides that, if its one thing I know about TL users its that they're great with purely itellectual topics but when it comes to topics that encourage introspection(girls, religion, morality, ethics etc), especially when such introspection threatens to reveal flaws that some may never want to admit they have, it could get rather explosive. My views, true as they may be, have already set many of you on edge. Invite a woman here and the potential fallout from all the white-knighting that would surely occur would be disaterous in this thread. Lets keep it between us guys Also, most women either don;t know or will never admit the are attracted to assholes so we could also be inviting denial masqurading as truth. Did you seriously just imply that girls are incapable of answering questions on how they pick men, because said questions could offend them? EDIT: Wouldn't you rather ask girls in a place like an online forum, where there's zero risk it'll affect your own social life, rather than asking offensive questions in real life? | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:15 Shady Sands wrote: Did you seriously just imply that girls are incapable of answering questions on how they pick men, because said questions could offend them? EDIT: Wouldn't you rather ask girls in a place like an online forum, where there's zero risk it'll affect your own social life, rather than asking offensive questions in real life? Yes, though I'm not implying, I am actually saying they can't. Women typically tell you standard bullshit like be yourself, be open, respectful etc. What they are actually telling you is how to be a chump from whom they can extract what they desire without give up anything. Taking their advice on what they want in a man would quicky make you friend-zone material. Someone they can come to and prattle on and on about all the mundane bullshit that goes on in her daily life while you provide emotional support like a good little beta servant before she goes and suck off her boyfriend who she probably complains to you about all the time. You know, the one who treats her badly yet she just can't help wanting his rock hard cock up her ass. Even if she is aware, and most times they aren't, she is never going to admit that the emotional rollercoaster that her boyfriend makes her ride almost daily is why she is so attracted to him. Women themselves are the worst people to ask for advice on seducing them. Women love to have a harem of horny beta servants who are willing to debase themselves by giving her undeserved validation, attention and favors in the vain hopes that one day she will reward them with the delights of her wet and willing vagina. This is what advice from women is about and too many men buy into it and start to wonder after years of blue balls, suffering in the void of involuntary celebacy, why they can;t get a woman to fuck them or even get into a relationship with them. Women want equals, not pandering servants. Women are attracted to men who are unaffected by their beauty and unafraid to call them on their bullshit. Those are the kinds of men they fuck. You won;t hear that from a woman. However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works. ??? Why is this true | ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: Yes, though I'm not implying, I am actually saying they can't. Women typically tell you standard bullshit like be yourself, be open, respectful etc. What they are actually telling you is how to be a chump from whom they can extract what they desire without give up anything. Taking their advice on what they want in a man would quicky make you friend-zone material. Someone they can come to and prattle on and on about all the mundane bullshit that goes on in her daily life while you provide emotional support like a good little beta servant before she goes and suck off her boyfriend who she probably complains to you about all the time. You know, the one who treats her badly yet she just can't help wanting his rock hard cock up her ass. Even if she is aware, and most times they aren't, she is never going to admit that the emotional rollercoaster that her boyfriend makes her ride almost daily is why she is so attracted to him. Women themselves are the worst people to ask for advice on seducing them. Women love to have a harem of horny beta servants who are willing to debase themselves by giving her undeserved validation, attention and favors in the vain hopes that one day she will reward them with the delights of her wet and willing vagina. This is what advice from women is about and too many men buy into it and start to wonder after years of blue balls, suffering in the void of involuntary celebacy, why they can;t get a woman to fuck them or even get into a relationship with them. Women want equals, not pandering servants. Women are attracted to men who are unaffected by their beauty and unafraid to call them on their bullshit. Those are the kinds of men they fuck. You won;t hear that from a woman. However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works. Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal. If a woman started getting all pissy at you over nothing you would tell her to calm down, and I'm sure it's safe to say you'd see what she'd done as completely unnecessary. Therefore it follows that being an asshole to her for no reason is not treating her as an equal. Stop with this ridiculous false dichotomy that says you either have A) No personality and bend to the womans will no matter what she asks Or B) You're a dick who acts petulant and immature because "BITCHES LOVE IT". | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:22 Elsid wrote: Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal. If a woman started getting all pissy at you over nothing you would tell her to calm down, and I'm sure it's safe to say you'd see what she'd done as completely unnecessary. Therefore it follows that being an asshole to her for no reason is not treating her as an equal. Stop with this ridiculous false dichotomy that says you either have A) No personality and bend to the womans will no matter what she asks Or B) You're a dick who acts petulant and immature because "BITCHES LOVE IT". This. I'd add that knowing what you want to do with your life is 10x more important than any shallow attitude or details you have. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing, impresses a girl more than that inner compass. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
Could you be a little more specific. I stated two distinct things here. On August 27 2012 03:22 Elsid wrote: Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal. Telling a woman she is a bitch when she is in fact acting like one is treating her as an equal. You beta male types don't understand this and reflexively make excuses for her bad behavior while employing tempered down language in order to be more agreeable when you're trying to calm her. You're in effect treating her as superior to you, not an equal. This shit is not attractive and the idea of spreading her legs for you is a repulsive thought to her. If she is acting like a bitch, tell her like it is. Shout it if you have to. I see it all the time, soft shameful male specimens who allow their women to do all kinds of shit and instead of putting their foot down, what do they do ? Try to reason with her with soft words of comfort. These kinds of men are the kind that always agree with beautiful women, and compliment them profusely. So what, she has no flaws? These pathetic examples of manhood are so overcomed by the fact that a beautiful woman is actually talking to them, that they sell any semblance of their manhood for the exquisite pleasure of pampering them with whatever they desire. This is not treating a woman as an equal. Make her earn your compliments, time and favors like everybody else. If a man upsets you with his bullshit, you would call him on it. Do the same with women, treat her equally. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 05:04 SarR wrote: Could you be a little more specific. I stated two distinct things here. Telling a woman she is a bitch when she is in fact acting like one is treating her as an equal. You beta male types don't understand this and reflexively make excuses for her bad behavior while employing tempered down language in order to be more agreeable when you're trying to calm her. You're in effect treating her as superior to you, not an equal. This shit is not attractive and the idea of spreading her legs for you is a repulsive thought to her. If she is acting like a bitch, tell her like it is. Shout it if you have to. I see it all the time, soft shameful male specimens who allow their women to do all kinds of shit and instead of putting their foot down, what do they do ? Try to reason with her with soft words of comfort. These kinds of men are the kind that always agree with beautiful women, and compliment them profusely. So what, she has no flaws? These pathetic examples of manhood are so overcomed by the fact that a beautiful woman is actually talking to them, that they sell any semblance of their manhood for the exquisite pleasure of pampering them with whatever they desire. This is not treating a woman as an equal. Make her earn your compliments, time and favors like everybody else. If a man upsets you with his bullshit, you would call him on it. Do the same with women, treat her equally. Here's the thing. Women like a guy who can naturally treat her as an equal without having to puff himself up to feel that way. You gotta make yourself the type of guy girls want to impress, not the type of guy who has to smack down girls when they don't impress him. | ||
BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
| ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 27 2012 05:04 SarR wrote: Could you be a little more specific. I stated two distinct things here. Telling a woman she is a bitch when she is in fact acting like one is treating her as an equal. You beta male types don't understand this and reflexively make excuses for her bad behavior while employing tempered down language in order to be more agreeable when you're trying to calm her. You're in effect treating her as superior to you, not an equal. This shit is not attractive and the idea of spreading her legs for you is a repulsive thought to her. If she is acting like a bitch, tell her like it is. Shout it if you have to. I see it all the time, soft shameful male specimens who allow their women to do all kinds of shit and instead of putting their foot down, what do they do ? Try to reason with her with soft words of comfort. These kinds of men are the kind that always agree with beautiful women, and compliment them profusely. So what, she has no flaws? These pathetic examples of manhood are so overcomed by the fact that a beautiful woman is actually talking to them, that they sell any semblance of their manhood for the exquisite pleasure of pampering them with whatever they desire. This is not treating a woman as an equal. Make her earn your compliments, time and favors like everybody else. If a man upsets you with his bullshit, you would call him on it. Do the same with women, treat her equally. "you beta male types don't understand this" What are you talking about? You know nothing of my behaviour with women yet you constantly assume things about my personality. If a woman is acting like a bitch I will in general tell her to calm down. I won't however use the "get a hotter girl strategy" cos that is fucking abusive to both of the women involved. I won't "make her cry" on purpose as you put it. I treat women pretty much how I treat men and when a friend of mine is being a dick I just tell him he's being a dick. You don't have to be an asshole to have a personality. Also stop calling people "beta males" because it's pretty stupid. You're the one playing games and being abusive and trying to play on emotion, if anything you're the beta. You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality. | ||
BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
Also quite relevant lol | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 05:14 BrTarolg wrote: I feel this is relevant You know sometimes girls just post random shit to make themselves feel better/get attention? | ||
TabyLing
Australia69 Posts
Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want. However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is... You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people. Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 27 2012 05:46 Elsid wrote: You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality. Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:01 SarR wrote: Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest. Rofl. Here's what I want from a girl Sex Emotional gratification (trust, bonding, stability, anchoring) Good food Tidiness Here's what girls usually want from a guy Sex Emotional gratification Good food Tidiness Why do you have to make it sound so hard? | ||
r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want. However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is... You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people. Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on. While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels. You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like. Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches. Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases. | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:25 Shady Sands wrote: Rofl. Here's what I want from a girl Sex Emotional gratification (trust, bonding, stability, anchoring) Good food Tidiness Here's what girls usually want from a guy Sex Emotional gratification Good food Tidiness Why do you have to make it sound so hard? Actually its very easy.....its the guys here getting friendzoned left and right that its somehow difficult to. TLers are a logical bunch but there ain't nothing logical about female attraction. Guess thats why its hard for them. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
Figure out what she wants, figure out what you want, and if you guys want the same thing just roll with it. If not don't build up giant windmills in your head to joust against, that's stupid | ||
SarR
476 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:30 r.Evo wrote: While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels. You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her. This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like. Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches. Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases. Very very good post..+10 !! | ||
Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:01 SarR wrote: Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest. Keep attacking arguments that aren't there man, whatever helps you feel like you're right. Quite frankly you know nothing about the people you're talking about and their attitudes towards women. Keep making assumptions about mine and others treatment of women and look even more delusional. I have kept stressing be a person <- being a person means having a personality, it means knowing who you are and what you're comfortable/not comfortable with. It means being unafraid to be who you are and being unafraid to show others who you are. What part of that sounds like it places being agreeable above being honest? Nowhere. | ||
r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
I should probably add that, while I don't question the effectiveness of your mindset and general attitude, I think it's completely over the top and unnecessary what you're advocating. The whole stuff about the silent treatment, inducing jealousy on purpose all the way to trying to make her cry if she overstepped some artificial boundary is not something I'd recommend to anyone in most cases. The few people (yes, people - women can do this just as fine) I know following through with this stuff lack happiness and satisfaction in the long run. Sure, working with negative emotions nets probably even better and more consistent results than working with positive emotions but I doubt that's a road most people want to go down. I just don't see any reason to advocate behaviours like the above when I can get the exact same compliance by being way over the top in terms of attraction and sexual tension in a positive context. It's rare that women witness that in a man in the first place so I might as well leave happy and positive experiences around when we're done with each other. =) + Show Spoiler + (Afterall, she might tell her friends about how much fun she had with me. =P) | ||
TabyLing
Australia69 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:30 r.Evo wrote: While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels. You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her. I really kinda think you completely missunderstood what I was saying. These are very general points I am making since the specific personality traits various women find attractive are different for different women. However there are basic attributes you should have that most will find attraction in, reguardless of what particular personality type they like. People say it's bad advice since they don't understand it's the foundation not specifics, specifics you need to work out on your own since all people are different. I am not attracted in any kind of way to the kind of guys my sister is attracted too, she would never find they guys I like attractive, it's completely different personalities.. how can you really give any kind of generalised advice for that. However Like I said, on the physical side of things, you don't have to be amazing in looks and body, but being really unfit or having a horrible face is really going to be bad for you... I don't think I would ever date a guy that I found physically unattractive because I know I can do better ;/. I would never date an unfit guy because I keep myself fit, going to the gym eating healthy, why should i accept someone who has lower standards for themselves than I have for myself. Looks aren't the end all be all, but you gotta have something there. I can't really say what is attractive for all women since I can only really speak for myself, my tastes are extremely specific for somebody that I would actually be in a relationship with, and not at all aplicable to all women. This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like. Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches. Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases. What you don't understand is that those girls you are 'jumping into the fzone' with find you somebody they could find attractive from the beginning. You just fit in with all the things that particular type of girl finds attractive, you havn't done anything special or mind games spooky your just the right kind of personality for her to find you attractive, and you aren't hideous in appearance. Guys who get stuck in the friend zone often lack completely on one or more of the basic traits I mentioned... Those traits normally come with other better traits too. They whinge and moan and complain about it all the time too rather than having any kind of self introspection at their own real faults as people, bettering oneself is the best thing anybody can do. Champions train, losers complain. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want. However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is... You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people. Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on. I for one don't believe in friendship between boy and girl and never will (except gays). If the girl tells you I like you as a friend, its actually "I like something in you, but its not enough for you to be a boyfriend". Be yourself, fit and happy is a generally good advice, but its not enough for "beta" guys, I have whole lots of friends irl, who are positive, have career and nice body but don't have girlfriends. There isn't something spectacularly wrong with them, but they're generally unatrractive for women. And there are also "alpha" guys (most of them are married and have kids already), and beleive me or not, they're advices mostly consist of some strategies and tricks to win the girl. Thats how they used to do in their whole life. You may never know it, cause you can't be in guy's shoes. But I bet you like some guys who are throwing their "tricks" right and left, you just don't notice it. | ||
r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
On August 27 2012 13:30 TabyLing wrote: I really kinda think you completely missunderstood what I was saying. These are very general points I am making since the specific personality traits various women find attractive are different for different women. However there are basic attributes you should have that most will find attraction in, reguardless of what particular personality type they like. People say it's bad advice since they don't understand it's the foundation not specifics, specifics you need to work out on your own since all people are different. I am not attracted in any kind of way to the kind of guys my sister is attracted too, she would never find they guys I like attractive, it's completely different personalities.. how can you really give any kind of generalised advice for that. However Like I said, on the physical side of things, you don't have to be amazing in looks and body, but being really unfit or having a horrible face is really going to be bad for you... I don't think I would ever date a guy that I found physically unattractive because I know I can do better ;/. I would never date an unfit guy because I keep myself fit, going to the gym eating healthy, why should i accept someone who has lower standards for themselves than I have for myself. Looks aren't the end all be all, but you gotta have something there. I can't really say what is attractive for all women since I can only really speak for myself, my tastes are extremely specific for somebody that I would actually be in a relationship with, and not at all aplicable to all women. What you don't understand is that those girls you are 'jumping into the fzone' with find you somebody they could find attractive from the beginning. You just fit in with all the things that particular type of girl finds attractive, you havn't done anything special or mind games spooky your just the right kind of personality for her to find you attractive, and you aren't hideous in appearance. Guys who get stuck in the friend zone often lack completely on one or more of the basic traits I mentioned... Those traits normally come with other better traits too. They whinge and moan and complain about it all the time too rather than having any kind of self introspection at their own real faults as people, bettering oneself is the best thing anybody can do. Champions train, losers complain. It doesn't matter which personality traits various women find attractive. Those are all secondary to strong frames, being preselected by other women and showcasing that you're both a leader and a protector. THOSE are attributes which make a man attractive - not some arbitrary: "He has to be nice to kids, like rock music and go into museums with me!" There's a reason guys who are successful with women hear "Wow, usually you're not my type at all" so often. Physical attractiveness is a tough one in general but even there most women seem to have rather creative brains when the other stuff fits right in. Attraction isn't related directly to physical attributes (sure, it helps here and there) but women tend to make the guy the way they want in their brain if they find him attractive. If I ask a 21 year old to guess my age she thinks I'm around 24, if I ask the same question to a 30 year old a few minutes later suddenly the guess is 31. If the topic of height comes around (e.g. on the phone after a date) women tend to add 10-15cm completely randomly. If I correct them there's a "Wow, you seemed so much taller". A woman who is emotionally attracted finds ways for her to make the guy attractive on a logical level. It's that kind of emotional attractiveness a man should try to find if he wants to be successful with women in the long run in my opinion. My problem with your initial points is mostly about how you try to rationalize what makes a man attractive for you. Sure, "confidence" is "attractive". Yes, being well groomed and in shape makes "attractive", yes we like to be more around people who are happy than people who are depressed all the time. However, all of that isn't something men can easily translate into actual growth for themselves. Men who call themselves bad with women have confessed their love to a random girl - and they got turned down. They invited the girl to dinner, they made her compliments - and also got turned down. They tried to "be nice", they tried to "be themselves" they tried to "just be confident" - but the problem isn't that. The problem is that their definitions of "nice", "being themselves" and "being confident" are upside down in the presence of an attractive woman without them even realizing. Success with women doesn't come from being well groomed, in shape and happy. It comes from irradiating attractive traits. If a man who didn't make the right experiences during his youth or got the right values along from his parents or peers wants to develop those traits it needs work. If you're at that stage "Just be yourself and be confident" doesn't help anyone even though it's technically all the person would need. It helps to fake certain attributes for a while, it helps to throw out cheesy lanes you learned till you could spew them out in front of the most stunning woman you ever saw, it helps to try random stupid stuff with women you will never see again. It helps to not masturbate for two weeks if you're too shy to touch a woman you find attractive - still can't do it? Imagine sex with her right on the spot and let the inner caveman work. She'll notice you're aware of your own sexuality and not someone who is going to ask her if she is lying comfortably every twenty seconds. Stuff like that makes a man more attractive in the long run because if works on his personality directly, widens his horizon of what's actually possible. What you don't understand is that those girls you are 'jumping into the fzone' with find you somebody they could find attractive from the beginning. You just fit in with all the things that particular type of girl finds attractive, you havn't done anything special or mind games spooky your just the right kind of personality for her to find you attractive, and you aren't hideous in appearance. Guys who get stuck in the friend zone often lack completely on one or more of the basic traits I mentioned... Those traits normally come with other better traits too. They whinge and moan and complain about it all the time too rather than having any kind of self introspection at their own real faults as people, bettering oneself is the best thing anybody can do. Champions train, losers complain. I don't think we disagree here, what I'm trying to get across is that I think you're angle of looking at the matter is off. The "traits" you mentioned are results of a strong frame even around a stunning woman. They're the result of lots and lots of dates with attractive women - that's how you build confidence in a situation you weren't confident before, by pushing out of your comfort zone. Ideal case the guy can be unshaved and in sloppy clothing and women around him still think he has "something" that makes him hot for them even if they have a really hard time telling what it is. To me, getting better with women mostly boils down to pushing out of your comfort zone, trying out new things and slowly but steadily working on dealing better and better with the fear of rejection, the fear of not being good enough for someone (aka building confidence, self-esteem and all that good stuff). For that you have to do things you haven't done before. Obviously, saying or doing something you haven't said or done before is, to some extent, playing a little game, putting on a mask, whatever you want to call it. But from THAT perspective you can actually give a guy little ideas or exercises as to how to work on his issues instead of what I called "fluffy prep-talk" earlier. =P | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 27 2012 15:06 r.Evo wrote: There's a reason guys who are successful with women hear "Wow, usually you're not my type at all" so often. Physical attractiveness is a tough one in general but even there most women seem to have rather creative brains when the other stuff fits right in. Attraction isn't related directly to physical attributes (sure, it helps here and there) but women tend to make the guy the way they want in their brain if they find him attractive. If I ask a 21 year old to guess my age she thinks I'm around 24, if I ask the same question to a 30 year old a few minutes later suddenly the guess is 31. If the topic of height comes around (e.g. on the phone after a date) women tend to add 10-15cm completely randomly. If I correct them there's a "Wow, you seemed so much taller". Funny, that reminds me my sister, I have a friend who is rather good-looking but complete failure in life, no career, no job and no proper education. Somehow my sister finds him attractive although doesn't know much about him. She used to tell me, why don't you be like your friend, look how succesful/organized/disciplined he is, eventhough I had Master's degree, a good job and my life completely in tact. She could make her imagination a reality, I didn't try to prove anything, I know its useless if the girl already made up some stuff. | ||
TabyLing
Australia69 Posts
On August 27 2012 15:01 bokeevboke wrote: I for one don't believe in friendship between boy and girl and never will (except gays). If the girl tells you I like you as a friend, its actually "I like something in you, but its not enough for you to be a boyfriend". Be yourself, fit and happy is a generally good advice, but its not enough for "beta" guys, I have whole lots of friends irl, who are positive, have career and nice body but don't have girlfriends. There isn't something spectacularly wrong with them, but they're generally unatrractive for women. And there are also "alpha" guys (most of them are married and have kids already), and beleive me or not, they're advices mostly consist of some strategies and tricks to win the girl. Thats how they used to do in their whole life. You may never know it, cause you can't be in guy's shoes. But I bet you like some guys who are throwing their "tricks" right and left, you just don't notice it. Hmm I don't really know why girls and guys can't be friends unless they are gay. It's a pretty large umbrella to put up. You are wrong about " If the girl tells you I like you as a friend, its actually "I like something in you, but its not enough for you to be a boyfriend"" maybe in some cases that can be true, but when I have said that to a guy its because I didn't and never would find them attractive. Enjoying the company of somebody to chat to and stuff is possible if they are the same gender as you or not. All the things I mentioned are not the end, they are the base, the foundation, the level you need to be for others to consider you attractive. Basically level one. I have found 3 guys attractive in my lifetime, 2 of them I liked in 1 meeting with them, the third and current bf was an online thing so it was a bit longer. I have found other guys physically attractive and if I was into casual sex I wouldn't be opposed to it with them, but in terms of relationship is just not my type. The point I wanna make there though is, tricks don't matter, they might be good for night clubs and street chatting up (looking for casual sex, or short non-commital relationship), but for a real genuine chemistry and connection they really are just a bunch of fluff and nonsense. Maybe your "beta male" friends should go find some domme minded women ;p On August 27 2012 15:06 r.Evo wrote: It doesn't matter which personality traits various women find attractive. Those are all secondary to strong frames, being preselected by other women and showcasing that you're both a leader and a protector. THOSE are attributes which make a man attractive - not some arbitrary: "He has to be nice to kids, like rock music and go into museums with me!" There's a reason guys who are successful with women hear "Wow, usually you're not my type at all" so often. Physical attractiveness is a tough one in general but even there most women seem to have rather creative brains when the other stuff fits right in. Attraction isn't related directly to physical attributes (sure, it helps here and there) but women tend to make the guy the way they want in their brain if they find him attractive. If I ask a 21 year old to guess my age she thinks I'm around 24, if I ask the same question to a 30 year old a few minutes later suddenly the guess is 31. If the topic of height comes around (e.g. on the phone after a date) women tend to add 10-15cm completely randomly. If I correct them there's a "Wow, you seemed so much taller". A woman who is emotionally attracted finds ways for her to make the guy attractive on a logical level. It's that kind of emotional attractiveness a man should try to find if he wants to be successful with women in the long run in my opinion. My problem with your initial points is mostly about how you try to rationalize what makes a man attractive for you. Sure, "confidence" is "attractive". Yes, being well groomed and in shape makes "attractive", yes we like to be more around people who are happy than people who are depressed all the time. However, all of that isn't something men can easily translate into actual growth for themselves. Men who call themselves bad with women have confessed their love to a random girl - and they got turned down. They invited the girl to dinner, they made her compliments - and also got turned down. They tried to "be nice", they tried to "be themselves" they tried to "just be confident" - but the problem isn't that. The problem is that their definitions of "nice", "being themselves" and "being confident" are upside down in the presence of an attractive woman without them even realizing. Success with women doesn't come from being well groomed, in shape and happy. It comes from irradiating attractive traits. If a man who didn't make the right experiences during his youth or got the right values along from his parents or peers wants to develop those traits it needs work. If you're at that stage "Just be yourself and be confident" doesn't help anyone even though it's technically all the person would need. It helps to fake certain attributes for a while, it helps to throw out cheesy lanes you learned till you could spew them out in front of the most stunning woman you ever saw, it helps to try random stupid stuff with women you will never see again. It helps to not masturbate for two weeks if you're too shy to touch a woman you find attractive - still can't do it? Imagine sex with her right on the spot and let the inner caveman work. She'll notice you're aware of your own sexuality and not someone who is going to ask her if she is lying comfortably every twenty seconds. Stuff like that makes a man more attractive in the long run because if works on his personality directly, widens his horizon of what's actually possible. I guess I didn't explain myself really well in terms of physical attraction, yes women can be a bit dynamic with it, and it is tied to the personality, (The other points you made, strong frame = work out fit, leader = confident, protector = personal preferance, women screening = wtf? ), but the actuall physical base is important. I would put men in 3 main categories; Super amazing hot, average, ugly swamp behemoth. Most guys are in the average range and yes there is low spectrum average and high spectrum average, but lets just say all within this range are attractive enouph for most women. You hear "you normally aren't my type" not because before she thought you are ugly, simply she just looked at a different kind of body/face type before. To the ugly swamp behemoths I dunno gl hf ... To the super hot basically they can really get away with awful things and still girls will really like them. They have to be really bad to fuck up, and yeah you can find them unattractive in the end because of terrible personality. I never said you can just turn on basic foundation traits, I said it was about personal growth before you go looking to get with someone. Confidence should really come naturally, from your heart cause you are that way, not just being that way to get a girl. Same with self respect and happiness. These are just basic parts of improving yourself as a person and you really should always be at this level of basic traits before you go off looking for somebody to invite into your life. Attractive men radiate these qualities because they ARE them, they aren't just pretending to get something. I don't think we disagree here, what I'm trying to get across is that I think you're angle of looking at the matter is off. The "traits" you mentioned are results of a strong frame even around a stunning woman. They're the result of lots and lots of dates with attractive women - that's how you build confidence in a situation you weren't confident before, by pushing out of your comfort zone. Ideal case the guy can be unshaved and in sloppy clothing and women around him still think he has "something" that makes him hot for them even if they have a really hard time telling what it is. To me, getting better with women mostly boils down to pushing out of your comfort zone, trying out new things and slowly but steadily working on dealing better and better with the fear of rejection, the fear of not being good enough for someone (aka building confidence, self-esteem and all that good stuff). For that you have to do things you haven't done before. Obviously, saying or doing something you haven't said or done before is, to some extent, playing a little game, putting on a mask, whatever you want to call it. But from THAT perspective you can actually give a guy little ideas or exercises as to how to work on his issues instead of what I called "fluffy prep-talk" earlier. =P I think this explains why you think what I say is off, we don't disagree, I'm not saying people can just turn this stuff on in a flash, I'm saying they need to build themselves to being at that level at the very least, I guess I never considered chatting people up with weirdo tactics a way to get there though. | ||
Facultyadjutant
Sweden1876 Posts
If you have comon interests than you are basically there. But there has to be some sort of spark, so you have to try with that person if you want a relationship. If it doesn´t work then you try somewhere else. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 23:52 Facultyadjutant wrote: It isn´t complicated If you have comon interests than you are basically there. But there has to be some sort of spark, so you have to try with that person if you want a relationship. If it doesn´t work then you try somewhere else. This. Four out of my last five relationships started because I liked to write and she liked that I liked to write (or liked reading what I wrote). | ||
Riku
United States1064 Posts
As SarR mentioned before, I tend to be a bit of an oddball, but I'll try my best to help out: This, for instance, is quite true. On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: Women want equals, not pandering servants. Women are attracted to men who are unaffected by their beauty and unafraid to call them on their bullshit. Those are the kinds of men they fuck. You won;t hear that from a woman. However, that doesn't mean that we ladies don't enjoy being spoiled and pampered and having some of our shit dealt with. It's just that we KNOW we can be irrational, even if we don't like admitting it. You don't want to fight against them completely, but you want to call them on it when they get out of line. Example: -Girl gets upset over stupid thing, yells at guy -Guy apologizes for girl being upset ("I'm sorry this upset you"), but notes that the stupid thing is not worthy of such a response ("but...") -Girl feels like she is being comforted without having her anger justified -Win/win Now, as for the "unaffected by their beauty" part, I think women always want to have SOME effect with their looks, but they don't want to be able to bat their eyelashes to get everything they want. As for the friend zone, note that women want what they can't have. If you think you have a chance, my recommendation is to friend zone her until she goes nuts for you over it. Every friendzone/relationship is situational, though. Feel free to PM me whenever for girl advice. | ||
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