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I wish I was as big a man as I hope to be, and just ignore all this stuff like Assem and (the old) Testie. But I'm not, and although I'm going to be trying my hardest to ignore dignifying this stuff with a response later, all the stuff being said basically forces me to defend myself. I find it amusing that I said this morning "I hope a scandal happens. I love drama." Little did I know I'd be the 'victim'. I'm going to try and address different allegations (you guys seem to be vomiting up everything you can think of short of aliens giving me super intelligence) in no particular order but as organized as possible.
I want to state before hand that it's pretty obvious you guys are drama queens, and were basically begging for a scandal to occur. Whether it's Testie is map hacking, Madcow is not playing for himself, I realize now that SOMETHING would have been whined about hardcore, and it's just my luck of the draw that did it. I'm almost glad I'm the butt of the protest, as not many people have anywhere near the ability to prove themselves to be legitimate (for instance, no one has anywhere near my personality), and honestly I really don't care for the approval of the general populace over the next couple months. I say the next couple months because over time you guys will settle down and think "Oh maybe we were over reacting". Then WCG will occur and people will start putting my name in their "who will win USA WCG" picks and then I'll play just the same and everyone will finally realize they were full of shit.
Anyway:
THE RET SITUATION
Honestly, this is the only point where anyone has any justification in whining. I was having computer troubles from the mid-late time of Game 3 (when all the reps are released you guys will notice that I'm playing horrible in Game 3, you can call it nervousness or whatever but my computer was dying, and then actually did die. I came back from the channel admitting I was losing, but Smuft went to review the replay and it was mentioned to him, from Testie, that Testie thought Ret map hacked. When Smuft went to review the replay I also mentioned to him that I was suspicious of Ret's play, most especially that he scouted my first Lurker drop. Smuft messages me back a few moments later and says "That is really fucking suspicious" -- I later watched the replay and noticed that his SCV runs to the left of his mineral natural (he was right side) from my gas natural and doubles back after passing the Lurker/Overlord. This isn't about whether or not I think Ret hacks though. I'm not the admin. I didn't make the decision to replay the game, and I came back from my disc confessing that I was behind. Ret did not act very manner, and as MANY of you should realize, complaining, whining, cursing, and accusing does not win people to your viewpoint. I'm not speaking for Smuft/Elky, but it's my opinion they made their initial situation for portions of the following reasons:
1. Ret's poor manner in dealing with the admins (we all love being objective but there's a reason defendants in lawsuits wear suits to court and don't jump up screaming in their defense -- no one will side with you if you're rude).
2. I was ahead in Score. I admit I was behind in the game, but score is basically the only 100% objective way of judging incomplete games, and I was winning. If this were a live tournament and my computer died, I would be awarded the winner.
3. Ret's supsicious behavior. This probably didn't factor in much, if at all, but is there.
4. Smuft and Elky were busy. It's very late in Korea (this tournament started at about midnight Korean time, and when everyone logged off it must have been between 7 and 8 AM).
Their solution was a replay of the third game on Neo BiFrost. It's Ret's (among others') allegation that I switched with a Korean at this point who played for me from now on, but we'll get into that later. I won fairly quickly and easily, and Ret, obviously, was incredibly mad again. Whereas the "unjust" action still would have existed, I doubt Ret would have been complaining if he won, and this never would have been mentioned. I find that cute. Ret continues to throw a fuss and act very rude for a very long time, basically putting the tournament on hold. At this point *I OFFER*, without any suggestion from the admins or another person, to replay the ENTIRE series with absolutely no advantage to either player. Ret and the admins accept this, and we play again. Sure enough, despite my generosity, Ret resumes throwing his fit after he lost 2-0. I really don't want to bring the map hack thing into this (I never posted in chat about this, my thoughts were issued in a single whisper to Smuft, which only verified what was already hunched independant of me), but suddenly with the "eye" on Ret in the redo of game 3 and the whole new series, he seemed to play much more clueless. He didn't really play bad, but let's just say the sort of "Lurker drop running into a waiting M&M army and sieged tank" situation didn't happen anymore. Anyway, whatever. My personal sense of moral duty was far satisfied when I offered Ret a regame, which he accepted and then lost. We agreed to forget about the past series, but once the new light didn't benefit him he backed out on that. Whatever.
WDT "SCAM" THE MYSTERIOUS KOREAN
This is the most laughable, for so many reasons. The reason this is allegated is mainly because I don't "whore out" my skil. I don't post replays, and I don't go out of my way to let people know exactly how I play or how good I am (I tend to go out of my way to do the opposite -- I've learned this is best accomplished by posting how much better you are than everyone without actually proving it). I'm sorry that I don't host my own Brood War page like Nazgul, and I'm sorry I don't e-mail the replay every single game of Brood War I've ever played to CoSmO[RuSh] like H_Paul_W does, and I'm sorry I don't take the Nation vs. Nation games seriously enough to "play for blood." As evidented by this, it would have been against my best interest. Do you think people like Rekrul and Veg had any surprises up their sleeve? Sure, there's no replays around of them playing THESE specific maps, but theres tons of replays that show their playing disposition. I knew/know just from happening to observe a few games in the past few months that Veg likes using Dropships a lot. Then I'm called a hacker for expecting Dropships. Cool.
I see a lot of posts that say "Dudey is a newbie" or "Dudey sucks way more than that". Where the hell do any of you get any of your basis to say that shit? I HAVE NEVER PLAYED ANY OF YOU. There has not been a serious tournament in SEVEN MONTHS from which to judge my skill. Why is it so hard for all of you to comprehend that it's possible -- just possible -- that I can do more than 9 Pool->Lurker and save my real strategies for WDTour, WCG and the like and maybe -- just maybe -- I wasn't hung up enough on the outcome of a Nation vs. Nation game to play my absolute heart out. I guess I can realize why it's so hard for all of you to believe, because there's not much of a competitive BW environment for foreigners. Aside from WCG, the good players are separated from the bad by social status and that's it. Koreans are different -- the good players are separated from the bad by money. That's it. There's a reason that the same small group of players consistantly win all the big tournaments and these players were no where to be seen at the top of Game-I. Why? Because in comparison to OGN or KPGA, GAME-I DID NOT MATTER.
If anyone of you had actually seen me play before hand, you'd recognize the person playing as so obviously me it's not even funny. But unless your name is "Rekrul" or "ElkY" or "Smuft" you wouldn't have seen me play, because they're the only foreigners I really ever practice with. I mean come on, even in the replays that there are of me (Team USA qualifications for instance) it's still the same unit choices and hotkeys. People like Winter and WickedDreams liked to bring up that I went 1 Hatch/Lurker everygame, but they neglected to bring up the failed Lurker rushes that resulted in fourty minutes of Ling/Lurker/Drops/Mutalisks ended with Guardians and Ultralisks. I mean jesus, I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE WHO PLAYS QUITE LIKE I DO. Every facet of what signifies my Brood War game is evident in these replays -- my preference for anything but Hydralisks, obsessively scourging Science Vessels, my great Zergling micro (I find it especially cute that Cosmo[Rush] (does this man even play Brood War or does he just host a replay site and put up unfunny intervews?) says the big signifier is that I can't micromanage Zerglings at all, since basically the one obvious thing you can see in any replay of me no matter how little I care is that I am 'jergling jesus'), etc. etc. I mean shit, I even 9 pooled one game.
I've provided what I felt was more than enough proof that I'm me. I told everyone to "wait a second" then posted a pictures of me holding a sign that said "TESTIE". That wasn't good enough. I sat through a personality questionnaire consisting of questions like my plans for the summer, even really small specific details like where I slept at Proct's house when I went to San Diego. Answering them all correctly wasn't good enough. The occasional logging on/off and stupid things like my latency changing from 2 green to 3 yellow (Guys, I live in Missouri. My cable sucks. Deal with it.) made everyone think myself and a Korean were switching names no matter how fast the relogs were. So I did what I felt and still feel should be plenty of proof (and my feeling is doubled by the fact that neither Testie, Ret, Veg, or anyone else accusing me mentioned) -- I took a picture of myself in front of the chat room, posted it (you may view it at http://www.ilnp.com/files/testie.jpg), then making sure I didn't log off, joined and played VeG[pG]. I won both those games and the second, but did that satisfy anyone? Nope. You guys are all drama queens. Scandal is fun! I've basically done everything possible to prove I'm me aside from videotaping myself playing, and all anyone has to discredit me is that "There's no way I could be that good." You know why I played well? Because I practiced, because I'm smart, and because Sauron and Nostalgia are +Z maps. Aside from Elky/Smuft, Rekrul is basically the only one with enough knowledge of myself to accurately make a judgement, and he's posted he was convinced 100% without a shred of doubt that it was myself playing vs. VeG[pG]. As far as claiming it was a Korean vs. Testie, that's just going a wee bit too far into crazy territory. Why, if I'm capable of dismantling VeG, would I risk the consequences of cheating by having a Korean play for me in the prior game? Why are the playstyles/hotkeys identical in myself vs. Testie and myself vs. VeG? But of course, there's an answer to all this: with everyone on my case, a map hack was brought into play. I mean, come on guys. You're taking this a little too damn far.
I don't think I'm even going to address exactly how much harder it is to find a Korean ringer than you guys think, but it's not exactly like the best pro-gamers are itching to kill a day to win some stupid American tournament. As I'm sure Nazgul (who does not like me and probably thinks I'm cheating too, but unlike all of you will not lie/exaggerate/jump to conclusions) will attest to, iTV Trials are currently going on. Anyone who is anyone is participating in this. So now we have a Mysterious Korean who not only gave up an entire day just out of his good nature to play in a foreigner tourney, but gives up sleep the night before a very important league trials in order to play in it (P.S. Ret: I noticed you said it was suspicious Elky and Smuft were trying to rush this tourney on -- they had to attend the iTV trials as well).
So now finally we have the theory that myself/Elky/Smuft are some triumverate of evil who devised this clever plan to rip everyone off of $20. Let's take a look at how illogical this is...
I'm fairly well off. I'm not going to lie and say I'm morally above such shit, but honestly I wouldn't care enough to put so much effort for so little money. I doubt many of you know a whole bunch of 19 year olds with 5 digit bank accounts, but if you've talked to me you know one. And a few hundred bucks means pretty much nothing to me.
ElkY is sponsored based on his popularity, both in Korea and out. This is evident by the number of times he has traveled to France for events sporting the AMD gear. It was reported that he makes over FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS YEARLY SOLELY FROM SPONSORSHIP for this popularity. This is in Korea, and he pays very little of it to taxes. Not only does he need this money less than I do, he is actually putting something at risk by actually cheating.
Smuft isn't nearly as fine reputation wise as ElkY, but the guy obviously isn't in the shit. I'm not going to get in on his financial situation as I really don't know the half of it and the other half is personal information anyway, but just use your heads. The guy went to Korea for six months, left, then returned for another six months. He hasn't won any tournaments or ever been sponsored. Obviously he has been doing just fine. And although a lot of you are not very old for "grown ups" $1000, or however much this cute little scam idea could possibly net for one person, is not very much money. If Smuft was actually having money problems, 1000$ would not save him.
Now, if ElkY and Smuft were planning this little scam, why would they include me? Sure, we're friends, but I'm only a hole in the pipe. Why not just keep it between them and have ElkY win on a smurf name? Lord knows there's dozens of Chinese players that are great we've never heard of he could claim to be. Not to mention that in that situation, I'm sure ElkY would be far more motivated to win than any Korean ringer could be. Why bring in a third (me) and then a fourth (the person playing for me) when you can keep it just between two people? It's useless spending of money. "To make it believable"? Why pick me, someone who takes obvious pains to be secretive and is not flamboyantly good. If they were doing this cute little scam, wouldn't it be wiser to claim Daaman, Tomson, Veg, or Fisheye as the planned winner and then help him out? They are known to be good, no one would raise a ruckus, and I really doubt they would be against receiving X amount of money in return for accepting a little help in winning the tourney. Also, if they had so much money riding on a SPECIFIC person winning, why would they make it single elimination? Amidst controversy of the tournament being unfair, no less! It's 2 out of 3, but still, it's easily possible for even the best of players to make a couple slip-ups. If I were trying to fix a tournament, I'd be a little more cautious than that. Try double elimination. Try 3 out of 5. While a good Korean could lose 2 games to anyone, not a single one of them would lose six.
What other ludicrous arguments are there for me to strike down? I really don't intend on going back and responding on the forum actively, so this is it. I better get them all.
I noticed someone suggesting they did an IP scan and found the account switching from a Korean ID to an American ID, there's really no way for me to respond to that other than that they are flat out lying. Aside from the fact that A) I'm fairly sure it's not possible over Battle.net, B) You cannot tell an IP's locale with just the first set of numbers, C) None of those numbers match my IP address, they offer no proof other than that they "know a guy" who checked. I mean, come on guys. Wake the hell up.
Ah, and I remember Liquid.Venice's post about what Nazgul told him. Personally, KidDie-, I think that was in very bad taste, though you obviously don't give a shit about my opinion. Fuck morals and the friendship thing, you took something Nazgul told you that was essentially gas and poured it all over a fire. Did you ever stop and realize that Nazgul does not live with Elky and Smuft, he is only peripherally part of the Dream Team, and he is not part of organizing the tournament? That maybe he asked you not to repeat it not because he was worried about his reputation, but because he wasn't exactly sure what was going on? You made absolutely no effort to corroborate what was going on or give it a think, you just posted it. Anyway, to address it:
I'm sure that's verbatim what Nazgul told him. And I'm sure Nazgul was not exaggerating anything. However, you guys seem to have a pretty large misconception of how WDT works, or even Korean pro-teams in general. Korean pro-teams are players united under a single manager. In some cases they have a sole sponsor, but in other cases they do not. The Dream Team was not always solely sponsored by AMD -- before, Elky and Gundam were sponsored by iVenture while Grrr was sponsored by AMD. It was after the iVenture contract went up that AMD brought other members onto their team. Grr was the sole gamer sponsored by AMD after Byun retired, and thus his manager was the only pro-gaming manager they dealt with. It pretty much makes sense they would continue that relationship by bringing on Elky/Gundam/Jinnam/jinsu later. Basically other than having a manager and these team leagues that just cropped up, the only inherent perk to being on a pro-team is a place to sleep and practice. No money is promised. AMD wasn't in any way sponsoring WDTour financially, and it really wasn't ever insinuated they would. Also, as far as Elky and Smuft's manager not "fully approving" of WDTour, that's far more casual than you guys realize. While Smuft and Daniel (their manager's name is Daniel) had a fight a little while ago, and Daniel said WDTour was bullshit (they have since made up as people have arguments all the time), Daniel's sponsorship over WDTour was never this big emotional deal. How do you guys think Nazgul got on the Dream Team? Was it because he played the perfect race to deal with the current pro-gaming environment (sarcasm alert!)? Was it because of his stellar performance in WCG, being embarassed quickly in the tournament by Hellghost and then Yellow? Or maybe it was just because he was friends with Elky and Smuft and Grrr, who asked their manager to bring him on. That's exactly how big of a deal it is -- Elky and Smuft and Grr saying "Hey, a buddy of ours is coming to Korea to game. Help him out." "Okay." This is exactly what would have happened with the WDTour winner. The WDT entry fees were allocated in the following way:
A) Money to WGTour for hosting it (Yeah guys, WGTour is getting your money too! Better add them to your axis of evil!) B) Funds to provide support promised to the winner. This includes plane ticket, etc. C) Leftover money to Elky and Smuft. Obviously they're getting money from this -- they thought it up, they put it into action, they obviously deserve pay for what they did.
**CURRENTLY READING LATEST FORUM POSTS TO GET THE LAST OF THE ALLEGATIONS RESPONDED TO **
I continually see people bring up that Jinnam was playing for me. I don't know if his hotkeys match, but it should be plainly obvious that it's not Jinnam to anyone that has ever seen the guy play. Jinnam likes Hydralisks. I do not. I went Hydralisks vs. VeG in Game 2, and that's it. Why did I break my usual trend? Because I had lots of Minerals. Because I was on an open map I could easily flank. Because VeG was trapped to one gas and would not be making Tanks (the problem with Mech, which I'm sure many of you don't know because you've exhibited yourselves to be horrible at BW, is that if you make too many Tanks you die to Mutalisks, too many Goliaths you die to Hydralisks, and you are incredibly immobile -- with one Gas, that means few to no Tanks, hence Hydralisks).
Again with the Ret thing -- I'm not going to lie and say the decision was 100% just and no one can dispute it and I wouldn't be pissed if I were Ret, but personally Ret handled it poorly himself (by acting rude, amongst other things) and by his actions he can't be surprised what occured when two overloaded admins are making hasty decisions. We played a regame of the third game. I won. I felt bad, DESPITE the fact he continued to act even WORSE. I OFFERED HIM A WHOLE NEW SERIES UNDER THE AGREEMENT WE FORGET THE FIRST ONE. I unneedingly put my shit on the line to satisfy mine/everyone else's emotions. And I won. And you know what, that + his actions (not swallowing his shit and saying fuck it) make me feel 100% morally vindicated.
As far as personal comments, as I'm not planning on dignifying people here who selfishly and unnecessarily act rude towards me because they are mad they lost with future "private chat time", here we go:
Testie: I always liked you and was nice to you, not I "knew" you "did" or "didn't" hack, but because you were nice. You stayed out of the BS foreigner BW community (though part of this was just because everyone thought you hacked) and played BW for BW. I always respected that, and even during the WDT allegations you made your defense but you made it swift and left it at that. I always had a respect for you to some degree (and assume you'd had respect for me too) and during my most confident times I was only fearing you and two other people for this tournament. But seeing as once you lose you start to act like a big baby, I don't really see how I can have any respect for you after that.
Veg: You go on and on about how I'm a newbie. When have we played serious games? When have you seen me play? Fuck, when have we fucking talked, just the two of us? What the hell do you know about me? Nothing! I map hack because I found your dropship? Why don't you try fucking SURPRISING SOMEONE FOR A CHANGE. I'm sorry you've never played against good Zergs in a tournament before, but Dropships are fairly easy to stop early, ESPECIALLY when you know they're coming. I'm not even going to touch on how you played the second game. Ooh, Vulture rush. Scary shit!
So yeah, I'm done. I feel I've responded to this way more than necessary, and in objective eyes it would be most obvious that yes, indeed, it was I playing vs ZelotIto (Who played Zerg vs me, probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. In case you guys don't know, I'll tell you right now: ZvZ is my favorite and best match-up by far.), vs. Ret, vs. Testie, and vs. Veg. It will be me playing against Tomson when the finals occur. I've done everything but videotape myself gaming, and personally even if it were within my means to do so (it's not, unless you kids all want to chip in another $20 of what seems to be your blood money to buy me a video camera that works) I wouldn't unless the admins demanded I do it.
So yeah. This is Dudey (you guys can stop calling me this, I changed my ID when I was fucking 16), aka ilnp, aka banana.milk., aka GG12-mockturtle, aka Daniel (IN THE REAL WORLD), and I'm wishing you all a happy Saturday night and I hope you have fun enjoying my replays from this tournament and in the future from WCG. Because I know that's what all of you (excepting the few people who participated in WDT and are mad because they lost when they didn't expect it to happen) live for.
Dan.
PS I'm not rereading this. It's too long. Sorry if I mispelled a word, because I wasn't paying that much attention. That and maybe the mysterious Korean wrote my forum post too.
I'm really baffled you guys think someone else played for me. No one talks like me. No one plays like me. If it wasn't known banana.milk.=ilnp before today, there'd be plenty of proof to make it 100% obvious it was me. But whatever, you guys are just looking for someone to complain about.
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I didn't read shit about that I stopped at this. 2. I was ahead in Score. I admit I was behind in the game, but score is basically the only 100% objective way of judging incomplete games, and I was winning. If this were a live tournament and my computer died, I would be awarded the winner. Good job admitting, this is NOT anything against you at all, but that statment is arguable.. Remeber in the first TL.net tourny where HG vs Naz it was a draw and HG had more points yet they counted it as a draw or naz winning?
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omg imma start reading this now =D
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OT i can never tell what your actually thinking because your response is always the same, :[
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This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
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United States12180 Posts
But I thought banana.milk. was Chojja!!! I'm so disheartened =(
No comment on the serious matters of this post.
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u know ilnp i cant believe u suddenly gain skill soo good and u finally studied how to play 2hat. thats not u ilnp, thats it. if u get to the the final u suppose to be much better than rekrul. and ur not. thats a fact. ur skill is much worse then reks.
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haha right dudey, I'm sure that youve played poorly all these past months in every single game in order to appear crappy so you can surprise everybody at WDT! I'm sure that you dodged the relogging issue and crappy english/good english issue because you just forgot to address it!
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anyways lets just have tomson vs ilnp tommorow
however, DO take some digicam pics of yourself playing that will definately exonerate you if you do end up winning
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On April 27 2003 05:05 SuperCod wrote: haha right dudey, I'm sure that youve played poorly all these past months in every single game in order to appear crappy so you can surprise everybody at WDT! I'm sure that you dodged the relogging issue and crappy english/good english issue because you just forgot to address it!
I didn't play poorly all these months, I just didn't care. I did 1 hatch lurker. I 9 pooled in any situation. I played without sound. I played while eating. There's a handful of reps available with me playing ever, let alone within a few months.
As far as the other two issues, I forgot about them/passed over them.
I was relogging a couple times because of spamming, and twice for my connection. I was leaving the channel to discuss things privately also, and I think instead of /whoising me people just assumed I logged off. As far as not speaking English, I really don't know where you get that from. I'm pretty obviously myself by the way I verbalize, and I can't understand how anyone who's ever seen me speak before could think me to be anyone else.
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On April 27 2003 05:13 Veg wrote: ok.... 1st of all u lost to ret, he doesnt fuckin hack so stfu. u and fuckin smuft need to stop gaying this shit. You lost to ret, wtf is this regame shit?
and NO im not saying this becuz i dont want to be eliminated..... ive said before i have barely any interest in going to korea but wanted to see daaman win it.
ret and testie got screwed over (especially ret) as far as map hack goes, yur right u cant probe 100% hack anymore, but u played perfectly, very suspiciously (as rek + elky admited) oh and then u just decide to run up my ramp just as i leave without seeing my army leave? u knew darn well i had a huge army, what were u expecting to do with 6 lings and 4 mutas vs 12 rines 2 bats 4 meds and a tank or 2? perfect timing?
and what about game 2? u cant tell me any z expects 2 fact vult and u didnt even prepare for counter vs drop which was the obvious terran move on that map
oh well... gl vs 'tomson'
I should expect someone who just 2 fact vulted vs. Fisheye TVZ on the very same map and just failed trying a drop to not 2fact vult?
Edit: Sigh i'm breaking my vow to myself. I'm closing my computer
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ilnp, but how could you basically lose 2-1 to ret, then get a skill boost and go 6-0 vs ret, testie, and veg
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ilnp do you plan to goto korea if you win
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I guess I am a minority because I have trust in people.
ilnp, I dont know if this matters but I do belive you.
-Me
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i like that ilnp didnt even reply to me
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No seriously I cracked up when they said "Jinnam might be playing for ilnp"
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wow I did read the entire thing
and m =[
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On April 27 2003 05:19 Liquid.Venice wrote: i like that ilnp didnt even reply to me
What is there for me to say? That you think I play suicidal? I counter-attack a lot. That's what I do. I run my units in a lot because they are fast and can run away. Why does no one bring up the several attacks I made that failed? If I was hacking, I really wouldn't fuck up at all now would I? Testie mentions how I ran up his ramp in Game2 in what would have been suicide had I not been "hacking" and seen he had too few guys. Testie doesn't mention where in Game 1 I ran up his ramp, was met with superior forces, and lost a bunch of Zerglings and ran the rest away.
Everyone here is just angry, for one reason another. They like drama, they're mad they lost, they hate me. Whatever. No one but Rekrul has actually bothered (and few really have the means) to investigate this with any sort of rationale whatsoever.
When I say I'm turning off my computer, I really mean it this time.
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I agree that people like drama. and when i meant replying to me, i was talking about things you said specifically regarding me, which I countered.
You are right that I havent bothered to investigate this with any rational, but I am not in a position to do so.
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On April 27 2003 05:24 ilnp wrote: Show nested quote +On April 27 2003 05:19 Liquid.Venice wrote: i like that ilnp didnt even reply to me Testie doesn't mention where in Game 1 I ran up his ramp, was met with superior forces, and lost a bunch of Zerglings and ran the rest away.
Then why would you try it in game 2, assuming you don't map hack, and are a lot better than every thinks?
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yay an anti replay guy:D Join the squad with me and subkaizer:D
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After further review of everything, I would like to withdraw my previos comment and say this.
I'm not commenting on ilnp.
Nazgul is not cowardly, he did excatly what I would have done. Kiddie did the RIGHT thing and enformed us.
This is giving me a headache.
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hmm im confused now T_T i dont know which side to believe -.-a
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ilnp are you saying that either you or tomsOn is going to Korea? Cause you did say something about some argument... did that mean the deal with the prize is off ?
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On April 27 2003 05:32 Veg wrote: i dont blame blackman for not playing this pathetic setup that lets newbies make their way to the top once again, replays ruin everything and btw dudey,, just becuz i did 2 fact vs fisheye doesnt mean i was gonna try same thing twice... i was aware the reps were uploaded as tourney went on but i didnt think people would be as gay and newbie as to watch them just before the matches began. it still doesnt explain why u wouldnt protect yur main whatsover, with a single drop that could have _easilly_ won the game
You're accusing ilnp of being a newbie and then your pretty much admitting you lost to him fairly. Good one.
Also I don't think you should try to somehow know anything about blackman. Stop making assumptions to try and salvage your already lost argument.
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What was with your "Map hack did come into play comment?" You are admitting you hacked?
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Give the guy a break. GoGo dudey!
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Dudey
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I read it all, yes! On a serious note, my penis is not that long On a more serious note the fucker convinced me. On the most serious note I demand everyone feel stupid now!
EDIT: On the note that no other note is seriouser than, I just made the most retarded post that anyone's made on any message board in the world in a loong time.
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i have seen many of your wgt replays ilnp before you resetted your account and also a few wdt games including the top32 tourney. i am zerg player myself and sure have watched a lot of pro reps and i think i can say the person playing in the finals is the same person playing in wgt/wdt. the only difference i saw was, that in wgt banana.milk. used a lot more "poor zerg" strats and rather questionable builds such as 9gas in zvz lt, whereas in the top32 tourney the builds were more conventional... anyways style, micro and macro are the same! so if this is the real ilnp (i doubt jinnam would play wgt^^), then you have my respect for being the best non korean zerg i know. you've put a perfect image of cowboy zerg on dark sauron and your gamespeed is remarkable. if all is true what you say in your post, then your only weakness seems to be consistency
gl for the final
CeltiC.MoOn
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My personal sense of moral duty was far satisfied when I offered Ret a regame, which he accepted and then lost. We agreed to forget about the past series, but once the new light didn't benefit him he backed out on that. Whatever
Your personal sense of moral duty is shitty. You had nothing to offer since you lost the deciding game(by your own account). If you had any moral decency you would let ret advance. Even without a mystery korean player you are a poor excuse for a human being.
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Assuming you care enough (though you have to have some amount of interest for you to type out such a long essay on the accusation) you should really stay with this Dudey, your eloquence is going to win you some support but you'll lose it as people find holes in your argument...and your "I didn't care about any other games up until now" excuse is really fucking weak, and you're smart enough to know this...I'll open up one of the holes in it myself.
You said basically how a person gets into korea through WDT is Elky and Smuft basically asking their sponsor really nicely I suppose, while I'm ignorant about this sort of thing it doesn't seem very dependable. So why would you suddenly want to bust out this talent you've been hiding for something thats not really that dependable instead of say the wcg where you're guaranteed a trip to Korea should you win? I guess you could claim it was true apathy on your part and not just hiding your skill, but you're a tactician Dudey, I can tell from your posts...why would you opt to suddenly show your skill now where even if you win you're not guaranteed a trip to korea instead of keeping it hidden and sticking with apathy, then suddenly surprising everyone at this years wcg where you are guaranteed a trip to korea? I don't see the logic...winning usa wcg then doing well in korea wcg and getting a sponsorship that way seems so much more logical.
The tourney was run exceptionally bad...and my guess as to why is that you have just a poor choice as admins. Not that I have anything against Elky or Smuft, but they are just two people (who are going to be biased towards friends anyway) and not at very high maturity levels. Then you have a weird situation with you vs ret...you suddenly 2-0ing testie and veg (you are an under rated player, but it takes a hell of a player to do that)...the weird logging on and off...the whole sponsorship ordeal...and your immoral attitude towards things like this, so of course people are going to point their fingers at you. This is just logic.
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ilnp's logic is: he uses excuses that can be wrong but we cannot prove them wrong. such as: "I just didn't try these last months" who are we to say he tried? I still think he lies though, the chances of him being 100% innocent and truthful is just so slim, everything just fits together with the zerg maps, improved play, etcetc.
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Kind of off topic, but I'm a bit drunk and it made me giggle...
banana.milk = Banana is probably the most common food-related sexual inuendo relating to the penis, while Milk is the same for sperm.
GG12-mockturtle = This is an obscure sexual term (usually gay), kind of like "donkey punch" used to be. Most people know what a "turtle head" is (turd that keeps pokin out but won't quite go). When you mock turtle someone, you put the head of your penis into their anus and remove it, repeating this until (I guess?) your gay partner gets really excited.
ilnp = As can be seen in the screenshot he posted, and from his posts in general, he likes calling people niggers. From this I deduce it stands for "I like nigger penis".
DudeY = Well...it sounds kind of gay. 3 out of 4 ain't bad
Coincidence or intentional? You make the call ^^
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Describe you opinion of "drunk".
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Kudos to ilnp. I don't think ilnp is here to blame. There were times when I thought that Jinnam was playing for ilnp, but that's farfetched. The only people here to be blamed are Smuft and Elky, for keeping this shit so unorganized.
First of all, we only have the allegation that Kiddie said aobut WDT. That's it. We don't have proof about ilnp. We don't have proof that Jinnam was playing. We only have an allegation.
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ilnp stands for I love Natalie Portman.
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they didnt have proof that ret hacked either, only an allegation.
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Keanu_Reaver Just saying hi, haven't seen you in long time, from nohunters and battlereports.com I think :/
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hihi, whoever you are
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who da hell is Natalie Portman? and ilnp always was a retard. and now he proved it once again. im tired of this shit >
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Natalie Portman? Star wars episode 1 + 2? Yeah, she's the queen.
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A) I do think ilnp (who has said people who don't cheat in online tournaments are idiots), Elky (proud abuser), and Smuft have enough lack of morals to have cheated given the circumstances. B) However, Dudey is correct that he can do more then "cheese". He does occassionally show some good micro in games, and I do remember a few games way in the past where he did do "normal" strats very well. I have no idea how good his "normal" game is now though, as I have not seen it in a very long time. With a lot of secret practice vs Rekrul, Elky, and Smuft, and with the map advantage, he could be quite good by now. C) Although, I've never seen Dudey do any "non-cheese strats" in any live major tournament that I remember (and I have seen him play at MML and at the WCG 2002 Texas qualifier, both he eventually lost at). I only viewed/heard of some of his games at these events though, and so can only say 75% of his games were "cheese" at these events with certainty. Unless he changed his tournament philosophy since then, most of his games should still be cheese. D) I highly doubt any concrete evidence will come out against ilnp (whether he did it or not) due to the nature of the internet. So, in the end, I doubt anything will change, as both sides can be argued equally well. In fact, most of it actually does come down to X's word vs Y's word, so it's impossible to know for certain who to beleive.
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I think the main problem most people have with ilnp, is that the he has not addressed the speculation that if he won, he would not go to korea. That gives Elky and Smuft a reason to help him out for there own goal. Also, that makes him trying very hard pointless. I don't believe that ilnp had any korean play for him, that is definately to far fetched, but maybe some advanced map information so he could prepare, since to the best of my knowledge these were not the original maps, not to mention the Zerg advantage on the maps.
Also the point of making you replay someone accused of hacking, points even more fingers at Smuft and Elky having some lack of good judgement.
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Innocent until proven guilty. no re ;D
MPXMX gj on post. It was pretty stupid
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
My thoughts on this circus:
The games vs Born2March: 1. There is no korean progamer playing, what gave me that opinion is simply the fact that i think any korean progamer would play better then he did. 2. I didn't see a single action that pointed towards maphack.
Game 1 vs Testie: 1. Impossible to judge someones skill in a game decided on a ling"rush". 2. The only argument i can see, besides reading your opponent (T.J Cloutier owns you) is the fact that his overlord left the right side of Testies gas just before he started it, thus he did see a 2 rax terran with no gas started. I am fully aware of the fact that a gas started when his overlord were still there would be very rare for a 2 rax terran, but I am not sure how banana.milk knows his timing. The fact is that it is STILL an argument!
Game 2 vs Testie: This is the game where he according to my judgement played his best, and also the game were he uses a number of actions which more or less eliminates the involvement of a maphack. He's got total map control the entire game, his overlords/lings would've spotten almost any attempt of Testie doing any offensive actions.
2 side questions: 1.What maphacker morphs 9-10 guardians when there's 12+ marines just out of their sight moving towards them (unless this was a planned move since Elky was observing and he was probably pretty certain he had the game won)? 2. How often do you see Jinnam, or any other zerg progamer build a building which blocks the gas exit forcing the mining drones to go around it? And in an important game?
Game 1 vs Veg: Ok, he saw a fast-teching Terran and counters fast drop versus a player he reads for using the strategy a lot. I too would do that in the same scenario versus an opponent who loves dropships; ie Boxer. After the failed drop it's just regular assrape.
Game 2 vs Veg: In this game he never got to see Vegs strat, due to the fact that his drone scouted the wrong way. He never saw if Veg 1 raxed or 2 raxed - where is the error in building 2 sunkens, and adding a 3rd after quite some time? The fact that he pretty much humiliated Vegs fastdrop in Game1 could be mentioned as a psychological reason.
Summary: 1. I absolutely do not think that Jinnam or another zerg progamer played his games, the skill just ain't there (ie overlord misses in almost every game). 2. The person who played did not maphack (this is too hard to proove nowadays though - which is why noone can be certain. 3. One player played ALL of the games, the style is more or less the same in every game, which is why i doubt there was a change between any round. 4. Seeing this is a tournament on non-standard maps practicing them a lot could give an advantage bigger than what many of you think.
I think ilnp played the games himself, The End.
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One thing is totally wrong here, even if it was bad luck, the time which ilnp disced was so suspitious right after having lost his 2 exps so he should have lost it right there and never got a chance to play again.
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MURICA15980 Posts
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Ya Dudey, great job of attempting to defend yourself...
You lost vs Ret... You cant deny it. Series should have been over right there. You were winning in score? WHO THE FUCK CARES? He had your expo and your main being destroyed and you had no troops to defend. There was NO possible chance of you coming back to win. You were toast... Simple as that. And out of a moral duty you decided to give Ret a rematch, well perhaps that is a moral duty if you are a lameass prick like yourself, for anybody else that would be considered being a complete fucking jackass. Then you decide to play good and make tons of suspicious moves after you realize you could (and should) lose. But this is the first time you have ever been a complete prick, unless you count the countless other times you have disc'd on purpose or left games when they werent going your way... But this is a onetime deal right? And funny how you disc'd just as there was no chance in hell you could win.
Who the fuck have you been playing for the past 9 months, that nobody in WDTour knew that you were any good and you were going to surprise them all. Why were you defending SCU in gamefixx and saying you would do the exact same thing in an online tourney, and then when you do the exact same thing, you act surprised and befuddled that people actually think your play was fishy.
Whatever, you should be eliminated from the tourney regardless if you hacked or you got someone else to play for you. Ret beat you fair and square, and last time i checked the punishment for hacking wasnt play another game... Also, the rematch which ret "accepted" obviously wasnt done under the threat of Smuft and Elky saying rematch or be dq'd... Oh you forgot to leave that part out as well... You are fucking pathetic and your excuses are just as pathetic as well.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Uhhh hades, I think what you said should be the only thing under question. having Jinnam playing for ilnp is stupid when we take a step back and look at it. :p
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i dont think ilnp cheated now. he should be out due to losing to ret but other than that I see no cheat. he said he would go to korea if he won so why would he need to cheat? either way elky and smuft have to pay. anyways, dudey wasnt that impressive his 2nd game vs testie where he supposedly did his best. had it been on a non zerg map he wouldve been completely owned. i think the whole tourney depended on the maps. all zerg maps = 2 zergs in final which is what we got. they shouldve stuck with the original maps instead of changing them. I hope tomson wins either way -.-v
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dudey wasnt that impressive his 2nd game vs testie ?? are you out of your mind? that was one fucking amazing overall Z performance ...
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why is it that stupid? Elky and Smuft have shown in the past that they are abusers and cheaters... Dudey has shown in the past that he is a bm asshole who discs on purpose and has even personally said he would cheat in an online tourney if the stakes were high enough.
There were problems with the prizes in the tourney... The tourney admissions didnt come close to expectations. Smuft/Elky probably didnt have sponsorship for a trip to Korea. SMuft/Elky would probably have to pay a couple thousand dollars out of their own pockets to the winner of this tourney since it didnt have AMDs support.
Dudey has NEVER shown in the past that he could 2-0 Ret, Testie, and Veg in a row. In fact, he has never shown that he could even win one game. Was he playing comps for the past year to hide his true skill? Was he hacking? Since he has admitted in the past that he would cheat in an online tourney. Are we supposed to believe he has changed his mind, considering he is 10000x more bm than he was before...
Whatever, if you think its rediculous then fine. Was it ever verified that it was Elky that played for SCU in gamefixx... If it was, then how could you ever call this rediculous, especially considering it will cost them thousands just to send someone to Korea who will do absolutely nothing once he gets there?
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zerg maps were used to weed out any protoss players. non-korean protoss just CANNOT compete in korea. they'd never make it outta the qualification rounds, having to go through all those zergs. that's why zerg maps were chosen. smart if u ask me
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lol? if they were on gaema gowon or a fairly balanced map, he wouldnt have been able to take the map like he did .
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ok kids, I have been one to bash on ilnp for well over a year, as he does the same back to me. Just to get things straight, we mutually dislike each other as much as the majority of battle.net hates madcow.
Now, onto the next step...I had played ilnp a few times in the past 6 months or so, and I can honestly say that the more serious games *gamei / west* he seemed to be getting very good. After review of the replays, there is no showing of maphack, and the accusation of a korean playing for him is complete and utter bullshit, considering the fact that he just played his heart out and kicked some serious ass at brood wars.
All of you judging his skill from the wdt open tournament can go die now, along with the idiots who judge him from "Team USA" replays.
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On April 27 2003 08:13 Hades wrote: Ya Dudey, great job of attempting to defend yourself...
You lost vs Ret... You cant deny it. Series should have been over right there. You were winning in score? WHO THE FUCK CARES? He had your expo and your main being destroyed and you had no troops to defend. There was NO possible chance of you coming back to win. You were toast... Simple as that. And out of a moral duty you decided to give Ret a rematch, well perhaps that is a moral duty if you are a lameass prick like yourself, for anybody else that would be considered being a complete fucking jackass. Then you decide to play good and make tons of suspicious moves after you realize you could (and should) lose. But this is the first time you have ever been a complete prick, unless you count the countless other times you have disc'd on purpose or left games when they werent going your way... But this is a onetime deal right? And funny how you disc'd just as there was no chance in hell you could win.
Who the fuck have you been playing for the past 9 months, that nobody in WDTour knew that you were any good and you were going to surprise them all. Why were you defending SCU in gamefixx and saying you would do the exact same thing in an online tourney, and then when you do the exact same thing, you act surprised and befuddled that people actually think your play was fishy.
Whatever, you should be eliminated from the tourney regardless if you hacked or you got someone else to play for you. Ret beat you fair and square, and last time i checked the punishment for hacking wasnt play another game... Also, the rematch which ret "accepted" obviously wasnt done under the threat of Smuft and Elky saying rematch or be dq'd... Oh you forgot to leave that part out as well... You are fucking pathetic and your excuses are just as pathetic as well. \
It doesn't take 9 months to get in shape for a BW tournament.
As far as "ret" being forced to replay me, Elky and Smuft ordered a replay of the third game on Bifrost. After that it was totally out of MY GENEROSITY that I offered a new series. If he was convinced I was a cheater, he was free to decline my option and continue his little crusade. But no, Ret's feelings of being cheated flew right out the fucking window and would only fly back in if he lost the new series.
I said it when I came back from chat and I never stopped saying that I was losing when the disconnect happened in the third game I played against Ret. But decisions were made several times and we played a total of six games. I lost one, I won four, and one is the game that resulted in a disconnect.
I've seen it brought up many times that I turned into this "super player" after my third game vs. Ret (the disc on BiFrost). Have you guys even seen the first two games? I died to Sauron to a cheese rush at the very start. Then, in the second game, I misplaced my Sunken Colonies at my expansion and was unable to mine, but played extremely well and came back to win. Coming back from such a blunder was in my opinion far more impressive than my victories over Testie/VeG.
And I never said anything like "SCU Is a cheater and he is the smart person." I said no one had any proof, and no one can expect anything to happen out of it. I also said a few times that I myself had regretted not cheating. I'll honestly say that I still kinda do. This tournament is slightly different, though. We're playing for pride and a trip to Korea, whereas Gamefixx was for $10,000.
You guys need to wake the hell up and realize that very few of you are actually in the loop to make statements that "I'm playing too good for me" or that "I'm actually a newbie", and those of you that are (E.G. Ret [not really], Veg, Testie) will probably wake up tomorrow and realize they were freaking out and calm down. I really don't know what you guys expect me to do to try and make this right. I mean, what's going to make you guys happy? I'm sure as shit not admitting to something I'm not guilty of, and what's replaying everyone I beat going to do? If I lose, everyone calls me a cheater anyway AND I'm out. If I beat everyone, I'm still the asshole with the mysterious Korean godlike maphacking friend who can play for me at any hour.
And for the last time, I intend to claim the WDTour prize, WHICH EXISTS. You all can expect to see nice pictures of me in night clubs and my name on the qualifier lists. And you know what? I might get raped. I might do well. Regardless, I'll know I had earned my way there and had a right to be playing 'with the big boys' -- satisfaction I wouldn't have if I had flown to Korea and did it on my own money, which I could have very easily done. This was the satisfaction I was after with this tournament, and that is the satisfaction I won myself today. I've played RTS games competitively for seven years now (that's longer than most of you had the Internet). I'm not exactly a random public player who 'stormed onto the scene'. I've won and placed high among tournaments and ladders since the concept of an online gaming ladder was founded. I've made about two thousand dollars in various prize winnings over the years (which isn't too darn bad, I don't think), made countless numbers of friends and acquaintences (and this means a lot more than adding to my /f l), and lived in Korea and Boston for extended periods of time thanks to gaming. I've had a job at a gaming company which I was offered based solely on my competitive RTS history, which I made about $7,000 of before I quit for personal reasons (that's a little over $2,700 a month for playing video games all day, hint: that's more than Jinsu and Gundam make, and their salaries' future depends on tournament performance). I promised myself and my friends that the few tournaments that go on this year were very important to me, and I am taking BW from a competitive perspective very seriously. I've shown what I'm really capable of in this, and I'll repeat my performance in WCG. Am I saying I'll win? No, Assem and Rekrul are very good players (among the best outside Korea, and two of the most qualified to beat me especially), and FroZ and Whear and Maynard (the real Maynard) and even Deathwizard and the Artosis Curse (We've played and eliminated each other in every tournament for more than a year with alternating games) need to be accounted for. But any of you who sleep on this, think about it, and wake up honestly thinking I'm a dirty cheater, just be patient. WCG is not very far away, and you'll realize then that every thing I say is true.
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Ive said it before, you arent going to do anything in WCG because if youre within a 15 hour drive of Toronto your going to be going to WCG with a fractured skull...
You won fair and square... How the fuck do you think you won fair and square? You admit you lost to Ret, and yet you still think you won fair and square... Last time I checked the decisions of a couple of moronic admins dont make things right... If you think you won fair and square, then afford the same opportunity to Testie and Veg and replay them in a series... You were given that opportunity with a hack accusation and they have made the same accusations, yet no replay...
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The two issues here should be considered separately: 1) Did banana.milk cheat in his games (either by having them played by someone else or maphacking) and 2) Is the tournament 'legit' (ie is the winner going to be offered what was expected at the outset).
1) I watched most of Dudey's games, and I see no particular evidence of maphacking. For the most part, I agree with the post above by Dealer. In particular, I thought Veg played uncharacteristically poorly in their games, and deserved to lose. Dudey was well-prepared for the vultures, but Veg did use that strat earlier... furthermore, the addition of a few precautionary sunkens vs a teching terran is certainly not damning evidence of a hack (especially if he had good reason to expect that strat, as he did). If Dudey was map-hacking, he was doing it very carefully -- he seems no more likely to have been hacking as any of the other players in the tournament.
I certainly did not see any evidence that some of Dudey's games were being played by a professional and that others were being played by a newbie. The skill level seems as consistent as can be expected from a player playing in an important tournament.
The real issue of whether Dudey should have advanced is the second round with ToT)Ace(. IMO the issue is clear; Dudey disconnected when ToT)Ace( had a distinct advantage. Whether the disconnect was malicious (which seems unlikely), or computer problem, the result should be the same. Regardless of score, any competent BW player would conclude that the game was virtually won by Ace, and he should be awarded the victory. The admins made a huge mistake (surprise, surprise) in allowing a rematch to be played, and even more of a mistake in offering some sort of rematch of a rematch. But poor administration does not necessitate a conspiracy.
2) As far as I know, the only evidence that the winner will not be offered the opportunity to go to Korea are posts from Venice, who heard it from Nazgul, who heard it from his manager that it *might* not happen as smoothly as anticipated. Which seems like pretty insufficient evidence for the conspiracy theorizing that is going on. Whether or not Elky and Smuft are pathetic human beings (which I suspect they are) and bad administrators (unquestionably true) is beside the point. As long as the winner is given what was promised, all is in order. All this speculation of some collusion between Dudey and the admins makes a convenient explanation for why such poor decisions were made, but seem entirely unbased. More likely, I suspect, Elky and Smuft are not competent enough to make intelligent decisions when faced with controvery. I'm sure we all remember Smuft's self-sucking essay about why he would allow Assem into the top 32.
Anyway, unless some real evidence comes to light, it seems pretty likely that there's no grand conspiracy focused around Dudey -- The admins just suck (as we should have suspected from the beginning), and Dudey has gotten better. No one would have thrown a fit about the admin's horrible decision if Dudey had lost the next round to Testie as most would have expected.
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ilnp. maybe u did and maybe u didnt cheat but i think alot of the accusations stem from how you have behaved in the past people just dont have a very good general view of you as a person although this is no reason for them to be calling you a hacker etc, it does serve to show that how you act on the internet does have consequences i mean just look at testie...he got caught hacking twice a long time ago and people will call him a hacker till the day he stops playing bw
people dont forget easily...
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MURICA15980 Posts
ehh... if you do win (and if you do go to korea), how will you play in the WCG prelims? fly back? ...
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on a side note, those zvt's were fucking art. Thats 400 times better than my zvt has been in well over a year, you kids aren't giving ilnp close to the credit he deserves.
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OK, ilnp promised us his pics in korea along with his prize if he wins. I think we should stop bothering him for now so he can concentrate on his Finals vs tomsOn. I think anymore of our blatherings will kill ilnp. BTW: Those zvz games vs Born2March are pretty darn close. I'd say those are far from korean zvzs'
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Hi - - Isnt`t it only one small game?. Dont be so nervous. Try to understand. Listen to each other.
Peace - -
PS. Liquid.Drone is bad boy : )))) (in positive meaning of course:D)
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zvt art or not He still did lose 1-2 to Ret And Ret should be the one advancing. That's it.
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On April 27 2003 13:27 ShAsTa wrote: zvt art or not He still did lose 1-2 to Ret And Ret should be the one advancing. That's it.
word
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On April 27 2003 08:53 Hades wrote: Ive said it before, you arent going to do anything in WCG because if youre within a 15 hour drive of Toronto your going to be going to WCG with a fractured skull...
There is nothing more pathetic in this 'community' than threats to do real life harm.
It is as childish as you can get to want to harm someone for something they did over the internet, and, real life threats are like threats that you will beat Boxer--there is no way for you to back them up.
Try not to be a tough guy on the internet like all the 13 year old geeks on battle.net.
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Didn't also ilnp denied being banana.milk. at first. He even said Ret might be banana. I mean what a display of lying...
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On April 27 2003 15:11 ShAsTa wrote: Didn't also ilnp denied being banana.milk. at first. He even said Ret might be banana. I mean what a display of lying...
lol? Oh he didn't admit it was his smurf at first, he told everyone it was Chojja. He can't be trustworthy then, what a display of lying.
Btw I'm really boxer.
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ok ilnp ur come back? i saw the games and ur comeback was like run into rets main with 20 speedlings and kill the scan while he tried an attack on u wow what a comeback btw the game on dark sauron u did a perfect 20 lings go vs his 2 fac bike tech without a proper scout so actually ur mass ling strat brought u to korea? btw u said that ret won the third game? then why do u force him to re u? actually u did so bad in every nation vs nation war and now suddenly u r the best non korean player woooooooooooow i know what ur plan was... u hided ur amazing skill to make it to 1# in the wdt ladder true?
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To all the people that actualy think they know ilnp's skill level based on the wdtour reps and team USA reps. You need to stfu now. Only the people that have played many games with him has any clue about his skill.
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but he is correct It wasn't genorosity of ilnp to regame.
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Norway28262 Posts
lolz toff im banning you for trolling
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asdf, ok than I admit i'm toff and not boxer. Plz don't ban me.
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Norway28262 Posts
ok cuz u apologyse u can stay
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Well, yesterday the only people that have spooken was those who thought this was rigged, now when u have posted ilnp i belive what you are saying. Only strange thing is that u dont really play so good axept in important game, but that seems little bit strange but i gues it make sense. And for the thing that the winner is not going to korea some1 posted that (think it waz Nazgul) the winner WILL go to korea but NOT join the Dream Team, im right??. So the final game is soon tomasOn vs ilnp winner goes to korea right? if not he wo came 2nd shoud go there. If no1 really gets to go to korea, all players shoud have refund and Elky/Smuft could feel really bad for themselfes. Second thing about the whole "drama" that is not right is that u replayed last game vs Ret, i havent seen the replay but even if ur comp was dying it coud have done it anyway. And if Ret was really angry and played whith anger and for that lost the last games, he shoud tho that be the winner of your game relayed AGAIN. If he now has calmed down.
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logging in and out means nothing. i've done that to quick review maps in campaign editor, review recent reps, chat on aim, whatever. the last thing a sane competitor wants to do is sit around and chat with the enemy, while waiting on other enemies.
the zerg player in those reps is nowhere near jinnam or any other currently sponsored zerg korean pro gamer in terms of precision and execution.
the style of play is distinct, and apparent in every replay. cheesy, sneaky, consistent, power-driven, solid. equally distinct is the lack of spectacular speed or control or execution. the player in those reps is thinking. pro gamers do not think, they simply execute and react.
if ret was not determined to have been hacking, the games should not have been replayed. this is pretty damn clear. he's either deemed a hacker by an admin and kicked from wdtour, or he advances to play testie.
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So.. his comp just regularily dies on him? "Shit my comp died.." "Oh there it goes, back to life." What is a dying comp mean. Does that mean he noticed it was gradually dying and then ended up discing? And look, i'm not TRYING to be bad manner about this, i'm just saying how the hell do you explain all this crap to happen to one totally untrustworthy person. And let's focus on the subject here, and not point the finger to distract. Hell if I am PROVEN wrong (Just as Elky Says! PROVE IT!) I will be the first one to kiss your ass and apologize, and even send you chocolates in the mail or some gift to show you that I did you really wrong.
But you know what? How can I believe that's the case. How the hell can I believe that. The worst thing that just set the alarms off in my head was elky "his computers broken" etc. I was already in the mess, but at that point... The fishiness was going on many miles away, and I swear I could smell it from here. Note: No one accused Testie, or Daaman, or Willet. Everyone who played dudey said something negative including definite possible hack.
Elky: "Play or be disqualified." How do I post screen shots? Because I took a couple of ElkY saying the exact words. Elky: "Thank u for ur cooperation." Interpretation for their side? Testie stop being a bitch, and face the music and play our hacking zerg friend. Interpretation for my side? Testie stop being a bitch, and face the music and play our hacking zerg friend. Dudey, your excuses for your hacking were as bad as mine when I was a hacker. Funny cause they look exactly the same too. "Oh, I just went sairs after early expoing cause I thought you'd do the same thing twice" Or "Oh, I just went sairs after early expoing cause I knew you wouldn't do the same thing twice" (IT switched really easily doesn't it?) "I watched you vs fisheye games" hence doing the same thing twice? "I basically knew you'd vulture, and know you like dropships" ... I have a friend who always mass goons, but I never KNOW he's mass gooning unless I have the scouting ability to prove it.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
sometimes even your maphack cant bring you to korea testie.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Ilnp, i would be willing to belive the rest if you would convince me that you didnt disc on purpose.
Man, u were gona loose 2-1 to ret! You were loosing the main and the exp, u had 0 troops, he is bashing your main with tanks and your exp with 1-2rines + tanks and.. You disc!! Are u gona say it wasnt on purpose????
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He is rich, and his comp died apparently. Just a one time out of the blue thing when he just happened to be losing the game. Shit bad luck happens, but everything associated with ilnp is like saying JFK was not assassinated.
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well...
dudey's regular comp was broken by FedEx after he came back home from his extended stay in boston. He bought himself one of those shuttle computers. But the computer, for some reason or other, is fucked and constantly screws up. that may be why his "comp died apparently"
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the kid has had a "5 digit bank account" since the age of 2, I'm sure since this tournament was a big thing to him, he would have gone out and bought a new computer to decrease the risks of him losing to something like a disconnect, and he obviously has always had a good computer. And when he disced he came back in about the ammount of time it takes to restart a computer, first he blamed it on his computer dying, then he blaimed it on the Cable in Missouri. Which is it dudey?
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I've complained about computer problems for three weeks Testie. FedEx broke my computer, the one I bought to replace it came broken, I returned it, got another which still doesn't operate (I think I need to flash the bios). It's been three weeks of a nightmare :O
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For what its worth I think ilnp played all his games. The hotkeys and the method of hotkeying in the games is all the same. Plus you can tell by the style of each game its the same person. Doesn't take a genius to see the overwhelming similarities.
The thing I find most funny is when banana.milk first started in wgt all the little retards on this forum were posting "OMG I THINK ITS CHOJJA" like total newbie bitches. Now those same people are saying ilnp sucks and can't of played for himself. GG morons.
It's obvious Testie is now cut at losing because his 24/7 of playing BW hasn't payed off. Beaten by someone who obviously has a life outside of BW *SHOCK*. All you ever post is stuff to try and manipulate situations in your favour and try to get people on your side with your posts "from the heart". You're cool man.
The smartest thing anyone could do in a tourney like this would be to play half hearted leading up to it and play barely well enough to make top 32. And then bust out some serious gosu shit to win. Hell most of the people on here posting about all the top players even said "they aren't trying ATM" and are "saving their best strats". Obviously they were.
So many rather low IQ's on this forum I think.
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
Jesus christ, people are really too messed up in this community, as i wrote in my earlier post: I am quite sure I have seen numerous replays of EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PROGAMER alive, and still believe that every single korean progamer (ok there ARE a lot of semi-pros etc who indeed are very good - just like ilnp) will perform better then what he did in those games. Frankly, the only game where he actually shows a beautiful play is the game vs testie, and still, that game (a very good game from ilnp) was pretty fucking far from Yellow-standards.
The worst shit I've ever heard was Jinnam/Jinsu or another korean zerg playing with maphack. First of all i doubt that they would agree to perform such an immoral action - all the progamers swear they won't hack right? GG Jinnam if he gets caught.
Shit, they player I in an objective way thought played clearly the best was Draco, but he got totally mapfucked - why IS it so unreal that ilnp could beat Veg 2-0 on some of the worst zergmaps ever. From what I saw in Vegs game I saw absolutely not the slighest little sign of a playing level that would even grant him a spot in the qualifications for a korean pro-league. Testie did play better than Veg, and in my opinion ilnp outplayed him on Dark Sauron, most of all by more proper use of the map.
A could never agree more with one of the last things ilnp posted, you don't need SEVERAL MONTHS to practice for a tournament, and absolutely not when it's played on non-standard maps.
The only one complaining here should be ret, but he too are not in a position to make any demands. They both agreed to FORGET the last series when ilnp offered him a full replay of the 3 games, WHEN HE AGREES TO PLAYING THOSE REGAMES HE REALLY CANNOT COME BACK LATER COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FIRST GAMES?
-Out.
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Brood War politics is so silly.
GL ilnp. I've never seen you play or talked to you, but I want a USA to win. GL GG.
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Dealer, you weren't there. It wasn't ilnp. We've gone over this. That and the player was accused of hack by every single person that played him.
Not one accused me of hack. Daaman of hack. Or anyone of hack really. Everyone who played dudey was like 'this is fucking suspicious' Why? Because I DO play more than everyone. I DO understand the game better than everyone who speaks proper english. And I KNOW that some of the shit he did was too fucking suspicious but can always be counted as luck. You know when the lucky shit happens 10 games in a row, you need to grow some nads and realize what happened is wrong. I was the first one to push for a frigging game-i tournament, and blizzard facked that up. I wasn't concerned with them putting a great zerg against me.
Because I played vs thewind and many others for christ sakes on this map and won 90% of my games on it and I was confident that terran is easily better than zerg as long as they continually minimize the zergs expansions. And because zerg is stuck to his first gas because of the proper build order, you are basically safe from drop attempts, and or any sign of anyone mutaling (which will rarely, rarely happen). Because they know the terran also doesn't have much gas, his most probably option is mass marine / medic / upgrades with perhaps one or possibly two well protected siege tanks with vessels. And likely sometimes no tanks because they really aren't needed unless the zerg gets an expansion that is well defended with likely a couple lurkers and sunkens. Often late games in the tvz's on these maps, I would find myself having more expansions than the zerg. After killing about 50 of the zergs rebuilt expansions and either whiping out their futile attempt at a small amount of ultra / zerglings with bad upgrades because you restricted their gas. Or they may try a small force of guards and try to abuse the water or ridges in the maps which also will not work because you are restricting their gas. Meanwhile, your units are mostly marines and medics, that with the upgrades will have an extremely overwhelming advantage over lesser upgraded lings and destroy them at a great ratio.
Now however there are some builds about hatching at ramp, and 2 hat lurker ling in base while hidden expansion but this is not the safest of routes as you know. And these people are trying to for the most part force you out of your hole to find their expansion late game so that they can slaughter your force with hold positioned lurkers. There are a multitude of other strategies such as burrowed lings on this map, but they don't work well especially against me because I tend to use quite a few firebats. I have played these maps as all matches because I am a random player. I was on more than all of you and understand them a wee bit better. And I know what the hell i'm talking about. But really, what does that mean? I just did this to prove you wrong and good day. Now let's focus on the real topic, the bad manner from dudey.
What units did you kill me with Dudey. You didn't say. Gotta wait some more time for that person to come on and share the replay ? Oh crap, he didn't save the replay? Maybe then you can wait for him to explain the game to you. That'll work.
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Testie there is footage proven that Dudey played vs veg in the semi-finals, its not a stretch to say that he also played to get TO the semi-finals, and if you think he hacked, can you please provide specific references to the replays that show explicit examples where one can reasonably assume hacking? Not a guess, but something for sure, because thats all that will fly. And if you think someone else played for Dudey, who? Its obviously not Jinnam the styles are completely different. And keep in mind its proven that Dudey did in fact play Veg. I realize that you and others are upset, but you need to provide data to back up your statements, bashing Dudey's skill will not fly, he is a very underestimated player, and plus the maps do favor zerg. Can you provide specific examples to prove your points? I.E specific points of hack, or proof of another playing for him, i.e. hotkeys or something?
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I believe I did say.
I'm not denying you play more Starcraft than me. But, honestly, I feel I play better than you did. I was scared of you at the beginning of the tournament for exactly ONE reason -- you would play random, and I had the choice of either guessing or being behind in the early game. You chose Terran, and you know what, I don't give a fuck what you say because I know my ZvT is the fucking shit and you know it too. I don't care how many times you beat TheWind or any other slant you are friends with, because maybe they just weren't trying. Don't forget that the super famous Cyrax beats Elky in practice games too.
Nostalgia is a +Z map. When I started playing Zerg I exclusively 9 pooled, then the orders I learned aftewards were ALL low income and few bases. I learned to Micro before I learned to macro. When I look at Nostalgia, I don't see a map where I'm denied a second gas. I see a map where Terran is unable to get HIS second gas without the Zerg either fucking up, allowing him to because he wants to play a power game, or the game being over. Our game was over in a few minutes. I was going Ling/Lurker. It was in my interest to dash for your ramp because losing some of my Zerglings would not be a large deal, because Lurkers were coming soon. If you did not have enough Marines, though, the game would be over as at the very least I'd kill too many for you to be in a good position vs. Lurkers, and ideally (what happened) you would lose all your Marines and some time and some SCVs and it would be over.
I recognize you're a good player and your TvZ impressed me, and wasn't based off abusing a random draw. But please stop being a baby and accept your loss. You are the last person on the planet I expected to cry cheat let alone this hard.
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Daniel from the united states comes on to help Dudey? STop making another account on a different computer. T R O L L.
I put quite a few examples up already.
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Yes i'm from the United States and my name is Daniel, you have not provided proof, you have merely insulted Dudey's skill, but sorry that does'nt work. Please answer the questions. This is a huge witch-hunt, and whether there are any to be found i won't judge either way until there is proof. I'm open to BOTH sides, and abusive rhetoric does not fly, if you can answer the questions i asked i am honestly open to hearing.
-Whear(for some reason i can't login on my other account)
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yeah, like dudey would set up a second account and use the name daniel if he was trying to fool people...sigh. Also what has trolling got to do with this?
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Specifically,
-specific, obvious points of hacking behavior
-evidence of another playing,(hotkeys, styles, etc)(NOT insulting of skill when you aren't in a position to know that perfectly)
-what about Veg, its been proven Dudey played vs him
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Testie now your last post was just a little childish;P
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ilnp you didn't just play poorly in wdt,you lost like 90% of your TEAMUSA matches against completly unknow players...don't tell me you didn't care for those games either because if that's true I think american bwplayers would have something to say about that
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I don't think ilnp care all that much about what american bw players think of his team USA performance though.
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MURICA15980 Posts
You guys keep saying "Ret should be the one advancing" but comon, if you were Elky or Smuft looking for the BEST PLAYER, sometimes it's realistic to "cheat" the rules. Comon, ilnp showed he could beat Ret more times than Ret could beat him. So overall, in their whole series, ilnp came up on top. That should matter. That's the whole point of this tournement right? To find out who's best. So although official, Ret may have won, HE AGREED TO FORGET THE PAST GAMES. And in the WHOLE SERIES they played, ilnp won. That's why Elky/Smuft let him advance. Because their asses depend (well, a bit) on the WDTour winner to be good. So wouldn't it be logical for them to let the better proforming player pass? Add that plus the fact ret AGREED to forget the previous series.
...
but the only reason ret is backing out of his word is because there's a lot of people behind his back. If ilnp lost to Veg, or even Testie, I bet you anything that Ret wouldn't be as pissed, AND all you people wouldn't support him either.
Smuft probably said "replay it" because for him, the QUALITY matters more than "straight, by the book following the rules".
And guys, get over it. There really isn't a WDTour conspiricy.
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ok they let Willet play IntoTheMadcow again cuz he is better the swedish is prolly better!! -_- what u say doesn't make sense
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Klogon..now your post is just stupid...You can't bend the rules just to give the victory to the better player,sometimes the better player just doesn't win,that's bw. If ret hacks,ban him. If he doesn't, he goes on to play Testie...I really don't see what's the question here
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Klogon ret may have lost the re because he was pissed he had allready beat ilnp 2-1. And, many people have said elky told ret to "play or be disqualified," so he really didn't have a choice.
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And klogon you can't just bend the rules, in korean pro leagues they can't just have people re if an upset happens. Read the news on the first page of this site, Yellow lost to doggi, yellow is obviously better than doggi, but the league can't just have them re because doggi won...It dosn't work like that.
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On April 27 2003 18:46 RaGe wrote: the kid has had a "5 digit bank account" since the age of 2, I'm sure since this tournament was a big thing to him, he would have gone out and bought a new computer to decrease the risks of him losing to something like a disconnect, and he obviously has always had a good computer. And when he disced he came back in about the ammount of time it takes to restart a computer, first he blamed it on his computer dying, then he blaimed it on the Cable in Missouri. Which is it dudey?
I've been quite clear on what I've said. You are just not good at reading. My computer was dying, then died vs. Ret. I was disconnected from Battle.net twice for connection reasons, and my latency kept changing <-- this was blamed on the cable modem in Missouri. And though you guys may be in high school and shit your pants at this, but 10,000 is not a lot of money. It's definitely not enough money to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on a shitty computer I dont' need just for a BW tournament. I've bought a computer, it doesn't work, and i'm working on it. I've been working on it for three weeks and I've posteda bout it many times
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United States12180 Posts
Klogon that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You're talking about ignoring the outcome (2-1 win in favor of Ret) because one player is BELIEVED to be better. How could he be better if he lost 2-1? It's not an admin's job to make stuff up as they go along. They made the rules and they have to enforce them - there was no foul play when Ret beat Dudey but because the admins FELT Dudey should win they forced a rematch (play or be DQ'd!). The odds were stacked against Ret the entire time - Z maps, poor administration, and possibly maphack/substitution which I won't delve into - and he still won.
The bottom line is he won but he "lost" because of favoritism. If Dudey beat any other player 2-1 do you think the admins would risk him losing by playing a rematch? No they would say the other player lost, get over it, and Dudey would advance. Total unfairness.
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dude ilnp how can you say that $10,000 isn't a lot of money? The only thing in this world bigger than my penis is your wallet and you say that $10,000 isn't a lot of money, and your a college student none the less?
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and ilnp I really would like to know what you think of your team usa matches, even though toff doesn't think it's important what the everyday-bw-american-newbie has to say about it,I'm portuguese and if someone on team prt was playing "eating, without sound" etc has ilnp said to explain his bad performance on wdt I think I'd get really pissed off=)
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i guess this works out for tomson he can purposely disconect and expect a replay game, works out for him since he can lose 1 more game. hihihiiii
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The question is did Elky obs the last match between ilnp and ret or if not did he watch the replay? Because supposedly ilnp had completely lost and if this was the case then ret should advance without a doubt.
But if there was any chance of ilnp coming back then they need to play again.
If Elky didn't even see the match and just made his decision becuase it was the easiest for him at the time then that's his fault for taking the easy way out instead of resolving the problem right away.
This is assuming ilnp's disc was a coincedence, but maybe he talked about his computer for three weeks so he had a disc in the bag to use at any time during the games. This is probably not true and there is no way to prove it so we have to believe ilnp.
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On April 28 2003 00:02 RaGe wrote: dude ilnp how can you say that $10,000 isn't a lot of money? The only thing in this world bigger than my penis is your wallet and you say that $10,000 isn't a lot of money, and your a college student none the less?
A couple year old BMW costs 25,000-30,000.
A house in my neighborhood, which is upper/middle class in an area with suprisingly low real estate prices is between 150-200,000. My rent when I lived in Boston was 1,500/month.
10,000 is a lot of money, and anyone with no debt and 10,000 in savings in addition to having a job that pays more than their financial duties (bills) is obviously well off. But I'm not exactly rich enough to waddle down to a Gateway store and lay down 1500 on a new computer I don't need because mine broke and I can't wait three days because of a BW tournament, now is it?
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wow houses in my middle class neighborhood are 500+ =[
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Klogon, don't forget being good doesn't mean you can beat 1 person consistantly. If Dudey goes 10-0 vs ret, ret can still be a better player. Ret might go 10-0 vs yellow and 10-0 vs boxer, while dudey would go 0-100 vs both of them (exaggerated example, but you get the point I hope).
And the initial best of 3 was won by ret, and all this controversy wasn't caused when ilnp would've just accepted the fact that he lost the game.
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why are u people arguing over the stupidest things? when almost all of you have forgotten the fundamental principle that made all of this possible? WHY does dudey love bw? WHY does rekrul love bw? or froz, or any other good player + pros? They love it b/c its all about YOU, not them, not their mom's, not their sister screaming in the next room, its not about doctor's appointment, girlfriends. Its about YOUR drive, what YOU want to do, if you have the basic fundamental skills and intelligence, there ARE NO BOUNDARIES to bw, which is the reason WHY bw is so popular? my god, why the fuck are you kids arguing over this stupid petty shit? "my mom's house cost 500,000 so therefore dudey should be able to afford a better computer so he shouldn't of disc in game 3, even though he beat him in a series later, and thas also b/c he had 1 bar less/more when he reconnected?" listen to urselves? Its obvious dudey has the intelligence it takes to be a good/great player, the only thing that YOU are having problems with, is his apparent performance in replays you've seen of him, which are about, what? 1/100 games that he's played? if not less? So your taking 1% of his games, examining them with ur biased, unskilled brains and casting judgements? In bw, you have 2 types of players there are people who copy replays, and there are people who make them. You copy, he makes them. Anyone who is on the relatively similar plane of skill with their opponent, could win, and whoever wanted it more, is going to. Its so obvious he wanted this more than any of you. You all sat and watched rep, after rep, after rep, oh wait... new maps? so you cant copy gosu's like u always try to do on LT, OH NO, OH MY GOD, your going to have to think for yourself? HOLY SHIT, wtf now , so someone with high intelligence, who wants it badly, and has relatively the same/less/more skill than you beats you and u think of all this crazy shit? WTF? grow the fuck up. I wish i could sit down and explain to all of you, how all of this works, of why bw is so popular, of why there are so many different amature players and so few pros, i wish with everything i am , that all of you could understand it, the way i do, but you obviously dont, or dont want to, or can't. So plz stop it, plz
p.s i dont even really know dudey, he can attest to that
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I agree with your post, but the part about is short sighed.
There are people (on this board) who just play bw, enjoy replays, and use them to get better. That doesn't mean they can't think for themselves or only play LT. There are people like that, but not nearly as many as you think. However, it's true, the arguments are really dumb and childish.
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Hmm I read it all. I can say only one thing (by watching WDT finals reps). U (banana.milk or Ilnp) play amazingly good. Amazing macro (in many moments I thought I just watch blackman), amazing micro, amazing set of strats ... If u played honestly (I did not find the reps suspicious in any part) u really deserve to go to Korea ... U are very good zerg player - Beside the maps were Z maps I cant remember anyone to rape Terrans so hard ... Congrats,
-Zaks
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I can't be arsed to read all of these posts but I have a couple of things to say.
1) Dreame has shown time and time again he does not like ilnp, however in this case he is siding with ilnp and saying his zerg is strong. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you who don't think ilnp is a good player?
2) If anyone apart from me bothered to read all of ilnp's first post almost everything anyone has replied with was answered in the first post. I don't give a shite if you believe it or not but if you can't produce a better arguement than "liar, liar pants on fire!" then you should all fuck off.
3) I'm taking ilnp's side, he's done his best to try and explain all the shit that went on and has had no-one disagreeing with him in an intelligent way (especially you Hades).
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Jesus reading this is so fucking boring the same sentences all the time.. how many times u guys wanna post it again and again. Please stop talking about this shit beacause it will not change anything.In my eyes and probably most of u ilnp is NOBODY. Die hacker Die.
Out
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You can fuck off as well you smurfing wanker. No-one thinks trolling is cool is this forum and if you carry on doing it you may find yourself not able to post any more... you will not be the first.
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Could someone please, please close this thread? I'm sick unto death of the whole thing. I stopped caring, a while ago. Just LET IT DIE.
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If it does stand for "I like nigger penis," that'd explain why he chose that name.
"What's up ilnp?"
"Ilnp could you help me with the zergs?"
"Hey ilnp!"
Hehehehehe!
If you want a career in pro-gaming though, you gotta come up with a kewl alias. Like FIRE MASTER. Or LIGHTNING BREEZE. Or FROSTY FLAMES.
Or NAZGUL. BEWARE FRODO! THE ELVES OF MORDOR COMETH! VANQUISH THE EVIL ONES
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winter, was that supposed to be funny?
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hehe I'd be interested in hearing more of lumberjacks pov if he wouldnt mind sharing it with me
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On May 02 2003 01:06 Winter wrote: If it does stand for "I like nigger penis," that'd explain why he chose that name. "What's up ilnp?" "Ilnp could you help me with the zergs?" "Hey ilnp!" Hehehehehe! If you want a career in pro-gaming though, you gotta come up with a kewl alias. Like FIRE MASTER. Or LIGHTNING BREEZE. Or FROSTY FLAMES. Or NAZGUL. BEWARE FRODO! THE ELVES OF MORDOR COMETH! VANQUISH THE EVIL ONES
failed -_-;;
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 02 2003 01:06 Winter wrote: If it does stand for "I like nigger penis," that'd explain why he chose that name. "What's up ilnp?" "Ilnp could you help me with the zergs?" "Hey ilnp!" Hehehehehe! If you want a career in pro-gaming though, you gotta come up with a kewl alias. Like FIRE MASTER. Or LIGHTNING BREEZE. Or FROSTY FLAMES. Or NAZGUL. BEWARE FRODO! THE ELVES OF MORDOR COMETH! VANQUISH THE EVIL ONES
LOLOLOLROFOROFLROLF!!!!!!
Not.
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Russian Federation772 Posts
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On May 02 2003 04:52 iGgs wrote: hey rekrul pipe down
Shut your piehole.
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for whoever asked, dudeys aim is realmockturtle
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Russian Federation772 Posts
On May 02 2003 05:30 iSuXOr wrote: Shut your piehole.
LOL
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Russian Federation772 Posts
i wasnt laughing at what you said by the way , just how ignorant you are
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someforea,
i dunno, when i posted that, i meant what i said, in that anything is possible when u want it bad enough, but now all this stuff about it being a scam, and that no one was going to korea really, and they chose z sided maps which supports jinnam playing, plus dudey reloging constantly, dnd, different lags, and the 122 clicks/min, thats so insanely hard to do, and ive only seen korean pro's reps over 100, i checked about 50, including some of dudey's, recent and new, on top of all that, and smuft not even on dream team, its all pointing to be one big conspiracy, which i think everyone already thought it was, but just didn't have any proof, or enough. I think its kinda sad someone would lie to so many people about something like this, if people really wanted to, or cared (which they dont, and it'll never happen) legal action can and should be taken against smuft/elky if infact it was a hoax/scam to make money without any real "reward". Yea people got games vs good people, an awesome season, better than anyone really had seen b4 as far as a ladder goes, but its still pretty shitty. And shame on ilnip as well, i never said dudey was a moral person, i dont think he ever claimed to be one, but that still isn't an "excuse" for doing something like this. I hope everyone has enjoyed their dose of reality, which is the reason why "wiser" people take everything with a grain of salt, b/c they've been burned by at least someone at some point in their lives, now you are all aware of how you can be scammed, and how u should investigate ur investments, like "adults". God forbid
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Hey LumberJack, can u pls post a link to this program (or upload it somewhere) that counts players clicks in a rep. I'll be very gratefull. 10x, Zaks
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Sweden33719 Posts
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the concept of trying to be funny makes no sense to me, I say things to amuse myself
is that greedy? =[
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ilnp is the man. people's shit-talking about him makes him that much greater! It's kinda like other sports, people who are good get booed, at least until they die(Dale Earnhardt).....not sure if this post means anything, but who cares =). ILNP is the man!
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lumberjack seems to have the right idea, I bet an interesting discussion could come about.. oh who am I kidding?
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