On September 09 2013 11:15 hmmm... wrote: Bisu has retired, according to fomos.
Bisu plans to enter mandatory military service after a short break.
Regarding his retirement, Bisu commented: "I am sorry to be retiring from professional play so suddenly. I send my sincerest thanks to my fans who have supported me."
On September 09 2013 11:40 Bisu-Fan wrote: Alas, it is a sad day indeed... Don't know if this should be on the SC2 forums or not, but I decided to first post it in the BW section... To one of the best protosses the world has ever seen, thank you. Good luck with everything you do in the future. <3 My signature has not changed forever and will not change... This is my first thread started on TL...
SK Telecom T1's "Revolutionist" Kim Taek Yong (Bisu) has officially announced his retirement.
Bisu was drafted by MBC Game (then under the name Pirates of Space) in 2008 and quickly went on to win back to back MSLs (in 2007). Then in 2008, he transferred to SK T1, where we went on to win the Club Day Online MSL. In 2008, 2010, and 2011, he also won 1st place in the IEF festivals. Then he went on to win GOM TV's TG Sambo-Intel Classic Season 2, and placed 3rd in the WCG Brood War finals.
Bisu won the 2008-2009 Season MVP award, and with 63 victories in the 2010-2011 season, he set the win record. By single-handedly led SK T1 to the best eSports team in BW history.
From the 2012-2013 season, Bisu struggled to adjust to the switch to Starcraft 2, and after much deliberation, Bisu announced his retirement. He plans on resting for a while and then going to serve his mandatory military service.
Bisu says, "I am sorry that I suddenly retired. Thank you to all the fans for all the support and love you've given me."
2005년 데뷔한 김택용은 POS와 MBC게임 히어로에서 활약하며 메이저 개인리그인 MSL에서 2회 연속 우승을 차지하면서 두각을 나타냈다. 2008년 SK텔레콤 T1으로 이적한 김택용은 클럽데이 온라인 MSL에서 우승했고 IEF 2008과 2010, 2011에서 1위를 차지했다. 곰TV TG삼보-인텔클래식 시즌2 우승, WCG 2009 동메달 획득 등 스타크래프트:브루드워에서 최다 우승 기록을 가진 프로토스로 e스포츠의 간판 역할을 해냈다.
김택용은 신한은행 프로리그 08-09 시즌에서 정규 시즌 MVP를 수상했고 신한은행 프로리그 10-11 시즌에는 63승을 기록하며 역대 한 시즌 최다승 기록을 달성했다. 김택용이 프로리그에서 맹활약한 덕에 SK텔레콤 T1은 역대 프로리그 최다 우승팀에 올라섰다.
12-13시즌부터 스타크래프트2로 종목이 전면 전환되면서 새로운 게임 적응에 어려움을 겪던 김택용은 고민 끝에 은퇴를 결정하고 휴식 후 군입대할 예정이다.
김택용은 "선수 생활을 갑작스럽게 은퇴하게 되어 죄송하다. 지금까지 많은 응원과 사랑을 보내주신 팬 여러분께 감사드린다"라고 말했다.
OpticalShot's translation of Fomos news analysis piece:
On September 10 2013 07:25 OpticalShot wrote: Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
wow, that's well umm, maybe he'll come to BW for a bit(short break?). Poor Bisudagger
Short break is more gonna be like 2 years of afreeca streaming ahahah. Why else would he Leave suddenly? Got a big salary cut and didn't like the game. He Saw jangbi get 40,000 balloons.
On September 09 2013 11:25 Shinokuki wrote: Short break is more gonna be like 2 years of afreeca streaming ahahah. Why else would he Leave suddenly? Got a big salary cut and didn't like the game. He Saw jangbi get 40,000 balloons.
Jangbi got 40000 balloons? :O wow, how did I miss that? >.> Either way, probably streaming. I really doubt he'll just leave the starcraft scene. My guess is he didn't like SCII Protoss due to the difference than BW Protoss.
I'm sure he will get an invite to the next SRT (or hopefully SSL). But, not to hate on Sonic (not all his fault), as you saw from the broken promises of the last SRT it's hard to get these guys playing.
Bisu, your career was inspirational. The last true BW SPL game was you defeating God for the team championship. 5 years earlier you created a revolution that gave the weakest race a chance. Long live Bisu, may you play BW again.
OK I really feels it's weird to find people happy with news like someone retiring. I love seeing Bisu playing BW but on the other hand I wanted see him improve further in SC2 as well... Guess you have to sacrifice something.
On September 09 2013 11:36 digmouse wrote: OK I really feels it's weird to find people happy with news like someone retiring. I love seeing Bisu playing BW but on the other hand I wanted see him improve further in SC2 as well... Guess you have to sacrifice something.
Protoss plays much differently in SCII and he didn't change for the fans. Something had to give, either he retired from SCII but stayed loyal to the race or switched to Terran, won a lot but disappointed the fans. We all know what direction he took now
Also... Sea on his afreeca stream was like, "NOOOOO BISU GO AWAY NO ONE WILL WATCH ME ANYMORE!!!" and "well folks it's been fun... that was my last SOSPA win..."
On September 09 2013 11:44 Bisu-Fan wrote: Also... Sea on his afreeca stream was like, "NOOOOO BISU GO AWAY NO ONE WILL WATCH ME ANYMORE!!!" and "well folks it's been fun... that was my last SOSPA win..."
On September 09 2013 11:44 Bisu-Fan wrote: Also... Sea on his afreeca stream was like, "NOOOOO BISU GO AWAY NO ONE WILL WATCH ME ANYMORE!!!" and "well folks it's been fun... that was my last SOSPA win..."
I think Jangbi would wreck him too ^^
Bisu is my favirote player, but I haven't followed him in SC2 at all. I certainly hope he starts picking up BW and plays in SOSPA. I wish him the best, as he certainly brought me entertainment of equal caliber.
On a side note, Jangbi, Bisu, Best, Movie, etc. wow BW is going to look so damn protoss favored if all these guys play in SOSPA.
On September 09 2013 11:46 Xiphos wrote: SC2 Forum: Bisu retires BW: Bisu has retired!
Note the difference.
oops lol. I figured it was more important and urgent for BW TL members lol. Having said that, if he was indeed not enjoying SCII, I would much rather he retires and streams every once in a while than continues playing something he doesn't enjoy(speculation here).
On September 09 2013 11:36 digmouse wrote: OK I really feels it's weird to find people happy with news like someone retiring. I love seeing Bisu playing BW but on the other hand I wanted see him improve further in SC2 as well... Guess you have to sacrifice something.
Every big name that retires from SC2 is another player that might get interested in SOSPA. Every player gets interested in SOSPA gives a little more strength to the revival, makes the scene a little more interesting, shakes up the dominance of players like Killer and keeps things fresh.
We're not necessarily anti-fans just jeering at SC2 (though I can't deny some people are going to be like that). We're fans excited about the game we still like. There's nothing weird at all about that. It doesn't feel like a retirement at all. For we who couldn't give anything out of SC2, all the players retired when they stopped playing BW. This feels like the opposite of retirement, it's players coming back to their passion and the game they enjoyed.
SC2 (and SC2/BW) people can be sad about it, but it feels greedy to want to keep players who were clearly never interested and just grinding out the days till their contract ended. I feel more compassionate to these players who didn't take to the switch well had to grind it out at all, and their exit must feel like a relief to them (although military is also going to be a grind, at least it is sort of meaningful). Any BW pro that quits SC2 right now is just leaving a job they didn't sign up for and didn't want... Some pros took the switch well, but it's not like someone who chose to play SC2 like MVP or Maru or whoever retiring... When a player like that retires you can feel weird about people being happy. But in this situation... "retirement" almost feels like the wrong word. It's like they're being set free
I'm happy for him. He obviously wasn't enjoying the game. Regardless of whether you enjoy SC2 or not or think it's a worthy successor to Brood War, the fact is that their similarities end shortly after the words "Star" and "Craft." It's just a different game. We cant expect Football players to switch to American Football and get similar enjoyments or results.
I really hope he either participates in SOSPA or at least streams; I'd be very surprised if he didn't. Imagine how much SOSPA viewership would grow if Bisu and Jangbi participated. I'm almost too afraid to say it... but the BW Revival could get its start (or rather, a very big push) right here!
Sad day for Starcraft but I look forward to seeing him play BW again . Was definitely one of my top protoss players of all time, so many great years and great plays.
On September 09 2013 11:50 N.geNuity wrote: park wan kyu probably going to sponsor an SSL now :p
who's park wan kyu? Big Bisu fan I take it?
Yeah he's like a rock singer who came to all of Bisu's BW games~ came and sat in the front seats... Bisu's warm-up intro song was Park Wan Kyu's song... and Park Wan Kyu in an interview said he would sponsor the next OSL if there was one...
On September 09 2013 11:50 N.geNuity wrote: park wan kyu probably going to sponsor an SSL now :p
who's park wan kyu? Big Bisu fan I take it?
Yeah he's like a rock singer who came to all of Bisu's BW games~ came and sat in the front seats... Bisu's warm-up intro song was Park Wan Kyu's song... and Park Wan Kyu in an interview said he would sponsor the next OSL if there was one...
cool and to sponsor an OSL, wow, well, I guess he must some a lot of money if he can say that lol. Hope he sponsors SSL for seasons to come then. We need an offline event soon!
I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
I hope Bisu partakes in the next SSL and she shows up in attendance.
Who doesn't remember this girl fan? Came out on OGN commercial during a game break as the "top news of the week" She came out to a lot of his games~
And here we get to see Bisu's revolution from Savior's point of view... Clueless and scrambling, Savior stood no chance to the Savior of the Protoss race... I like it how as soon as he GG's, Savior's going to check the replays... That made no difference whatsoever... + Show Spoiler +
I hope Bisu partakes in the next SSL and she shows up in attendance.
Who doesn't remember this girl fan? Came out on OGN commercial during a game break as the "top news of the week" She came out to a lot of his games~
And here we get to see Bisu's revolution from Savior's point of view... Clueless and scrambling, Savior stood no chance to the Savior of the Protoss race... I like it how as soon as he GG's, Savior's going to check the replays... That made no difference whatsoever... + Show Spoiler +
I've never seen that video before lol. She's so shy but so is he XD Too bad there is no higher quality for those MSL games. Would've liked to see just how badly Saviour was crushed ><
I hope Bisu partakes in the next SSL and she shows up in attendance.
Who doesn't remember this girl fan? Came out on OGN commercial during a game break as the "top news of the week" She came out to a lot of his games~
And here we get to see Bisu's revolution from Savior's point of view... Clueless and scrambling, Savior stood no chance to the Savior of the Protoss race... I like it how as soon as he GG's, Savior's going to check the replays... That made no difference whatsoever... + Show Spoiler +
I've never seen that video before lol. She's so shy but so is he XD Too bad there is no higher quality for those MSL games. Would've liked to see just how badly Saviour was crushed ><
There are better quality ones... this is just his FPVOD, and we can first had see how clueless Savior was to the coming onslaught of Bisu... I'm sure the actual broadcasted versions are better quality~
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I wasn't a fan of his play either ;o
Because he plays the scumbag race? :D I completely understand if that's the case ^_^
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I think he means "he wasn't on stx".
Anyway, I totally forgot about the little girl. Such a cute story
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I prefer non-harass based play(Except by reavers. Reavers are badass.). I think that is enough elaboration.
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I wasn't a fan of his play either ;o
Because he plays the scumbag race? :D I completely understand if that's the case ^_^
It's weird. He has been my favourite player since stumbling upon the pro-scene in 2007-2008. But I'm not as sad as I thought I would be. I just found watching Bisu's Protoss gameplay in SC2 depressing and had quit following him altogether. Not many Dragons left, but I hope his 'small break' before military is rather longer and... SSL!
I would stay up and watch SSL for Bisu. Long live the Revolutionist.
edit Oooh. Maybe he will do some tutorials like Movie...
PS In many ways all these retirements feel like the final coda or epilogue of Kespa-era BW. The drawn out conclusion or chapter end that began with the hybrid league. "Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legends..."
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I prefer non-harass based play. I think that is enough elaboration.
Fair enough.
Though I think even Bisu dialed it back some in the last year or year and a half, saying something along the lines of that (harass style) isn't so strong against zergs anymore.
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I think he means "he wasn't on stx".
Anyway, I totally forgot about the little girl. Such a cute story
Haha! How could I forget that mustaju was the king of stx fans!
On September 09 2013 12:03 mustaju wrote: I didn't like him as a player, but I wish him the best whatever he decides to do! Be it SOSPA or military or a modeling carreer (there would be an audience, from what I can tell).
Wait. I'm going to ask for an elaboration here.
I can understand not being a fanboy or disliking him because of the fanboyism...but as a player? Bisu games were virtually guaranteed to be entertaining what with his insane multitasking and occasional goofs.
I prefer non-harass based play(Except by reavers. Reavers are badass.). I think that is enough elaboration.
But harass based play and of course defense is so micro and multitasking intensive. Doesn't that reflect the skill of the player if he can harass and macro behind it? Up to you if you want to answer though ^^
I still remember that moment when Bisu burst upon the scene and 3:0'd Savior in the MSL finals...and then went on to beat him again in EVER 2007. What a revolution.
Bisu wasn't harass-oriented during his most-wins campaign of SPL 2011, he even admits so himself in an interview that he's changed his style and that there are protosses more harass oriented than him (Kal and Rain comes to mind).
Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
As heartbreaking as this is, I hope to see a strong future of Bisu streaming BW along with everyone else and playing in SSL & SOSPA. Taekbangleessang was one of the biggest reasons I stuck with Sc2 and now that one of them is gone it just doesn't feel right...Hope the best for the Revolutionist!
On September 09 2013 12:36 ArvickHero wrote: Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
This sums it up really well for me. Being just a little older then bisu it feels like I just lost a childhood friend. I probably won't be posting or be around TL for a while now. I'm going to take this time to finally take a break from Starcraft. I'll still do my TL Staff work, but that may be it for a while. As a favor, instead of people mentioning how some of you dislike Bisu (whether it be him, his play, or because of annoying fanboys ) when its not necessary to point out, take the time to appreciate someone who had a large impact on your favorite game instead. I'll say more in a blog when I return. This is the end to a great chapter in my life and I'm very happy I got to share it with all of you on TL.
On September 09 2013 12:36 ArvickHero wrote: Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
This sums it up really well for me. Being just a little older then bisu it feels like I just lost a childhood friend. I probably won't be posting or be around TL for a while now. I'm going to take this time to finally take a break from Starcraft. I'll still do my TL Staff work, but that may be it for a while. As a favor, instead of people mentioning how some of you dislike Bisu (whether it be him, his play, or because of annoying fanboys ) when its not necessary to point out, take the time to appreciate someone who had a large impact on your favorite game instead. I'll say more in a blog when I return. This is the end to a great chapter in my life and I'm very happy I got to share it with all of you on TL.
Ohhh, now we lost Bisu and BisuDagger >.< My heart can't take this much today! Hope you take a nice break and return with some epic thoughts as usual
I'm so excited guys. Can I just say that I'm so excited just once more. Warning massive fan boying contained below. + Show Spoiler +
Holy crap bisu might play some more bw. I have the biggest bisu boner right now, not even bd or keitt can match this. Omg omg omg I'm like a little girl here. #biforbisu
It will be hero's time to shine, because Jangbi and Bisu will take down all those pesky terrans for him and then he'll show them the true power of heroic ZvP!
I don't see this as Bisu retiring, more like him not being SKT anymore, I hope he takes part in some sospa events or just streams some BW in afreeca during his break.
If I see Shine "retiring" from SC2 in a couple of weeks I will go nuts.
Anyway, already said my piece in the SC2 thread. I'm really happy that he's "back" or at least has the chance to stream BW. I watched all his SC2 games and they were a far cry from even his worst losses in BW. None of them ever really showed his special brand of harass/multitask/micro heavy play.
Protosses in BW are getting too good. 3 dragons in the span of how many weeks? 3 out of the top 4 even. There needs to be a Terran and Zerg retirement streak. I'm hoping for Hydra to complement Killer and by.hero, and for Leta to consider playing again to match up with Sea. If Horang2 and Snow start playing again we'll just keep seeing PvP with a smattering of Zerg and Terran in BW, which kinda sucks from a diversity point of view (even though I find PvP very exciting).
On September 09 2013 12:59 Caladbolg wrote: If I see Shine "retiring" from SC2 in a couple of weeks I will go nuts.
Anyway, already said my piece in the SC2 thread. I'm really happy that he's "back" or at least has the chance to stream BW. I watched all his SC2 games and they were a far cry from even his worst losses in BW. None of them ever really showed his special brand of harass/multitask/micro heavy play.
Protosses in BW are getting too good. 3 dragons in the span of how many weeks? 3 out of the top 4 even. There needs to be a Terran and Zerg retirement streak. I'm hoping for Hydra to complement Killer and by.hero, and for Leta to consider playing again to match up with Sea. If Horang2 and Snow start playing again we'll just keep seeing PvP with a smattering of Zerg and Terran in BW, which kinda sucks from a diversity point of view (even though I find PvP very exciting).
There weren't that many good Terrans towards the end of pro-BW, mostly just Flash and Fantasy racking up wins for Terran iirc. Leta was okay, but he wasn't that good vs P even during his best days =/
wow, this isnt unexpected at all, but still im baffled. I hope Bisu is happy with his decision and comes back to play BW and participate in SOSPA events obviously! IM not sad at all, since it was frustrating to me to see such a great player underperform in a game, that didn't give him the opportunity to show his skill. I'll be amazed if i could watch him stream BW again and i predict quite some protoss titles in SRT and SSL if he and Jangbi get back into shape!
On September 09 2013 12:59 Caladbolg wrote: If I see Shine "retiring" from SC2 in a couple of weeks I will go nuts.
Anyway, already said my piece in the SC2 thread. I'm really happy that he's "back" or at least has the chance to stream BW. I watched all his SC2 games and they were a far cry from even his worst losses in BW. None of them ever really showed his special brand of harass/multitask/micro heavy play.
Protosses in BW are getting too good. 3 dragons in the span of how many weeks? 3 out of the top 4 even. There needs to be a Terran and Zerg retirement streak. I'm hoping for Hydra to complement Killer and by.hero, and for Leta to consider playing again to match up with Sea. If Horang2 and Snow start playing again we'll just keep seeing PvP with a smattering of Zerg and Terran in BW, which kinda sucks from a diversity point of view (even though I find PvP very exciting).
There weren't that many good Terrans towards the end of pro-BW, mostly just Flash and Fantasy racking up wins for Terran iirc. Leta was okay, but he wasn't that good vs P even during his best days =/
Your smoking crack. Terrans were emerging left and right. Bogus (Innovation) and Last started to bring their A game and was smashing a lot of players. Reality showed potential but the switch to sc2, stopped him from developing. Zerg and protoss seemed like a dying race. The only new protoss that emerge with potential was Rain. Zerg had nobody from what I remember.
On September 09 2013 12:59 Caladbolg wrote: If I see Shine "retiring" from SC2 in a couple of weeks I will go nuts.
Anyway, already said my piece in the SC2 thread. I'm really happy that he's "back" or at least has the chance to stream BW. I watched all his SC2 games and they were a far cry from even his worst losses in BW. None of them ever really showed his special brand of harass/multitask/micro heavy play.
Protosses in BW are getting too good. 3 dragons in the span of how many weeks? 3 out of the top 4 even. There needs to be a Terran and Zerg retirement streak. I'm hoping for Hydra to complement Killer and by.hero, and for Leta to consider playing again to match up with Sea. If Horang2 and Snow start playing again we'll just keep seeing PvP with a smattering of Zerg and Terran in BW, which kinda sucks from a diversity point of view (even though I find PvP very exciting).
There weren't that many good Terrans towards the end of pro-BW, mostly just Flash and Fantasy racking up wins for Terran iirc. Leta was okay, but he wasn't that good vs P even during his best days =/
Your smoking crack. Terrans were emerging left and right. Bogus (Innovation) and Last started to bring their A game and was smashing a lot of players. Reality showed potential but the switch to sc2, stopped him from developing. Zerg and protoss seemed like a dying race. The only new protoss that emerge with potential was Rain. Zerg had nobody from what I remember.
Goodness what do you call Killer, the mini-Dong then?!
Before the switch, we had Bogus, Last and Reality (and Fantasy finally becoming clutch), Protoss had Wooki, Rain and sHy, and Zerg had ZerO, Soulkey and Killer. Woongjin, Samsung and STX were well-poised to upend the KTs once Flash and Bisu became less consistent.
On September 09 2013 12:36 ArvickHero wrote: Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
This sums it up really well for me. Being just a little older then bisu it feels like I just lost a childhood friend. I probably won't be posting or be around TL for a while now. I'm going to take this time to finally take a break from Starcraft. I'll still do my TL Staff work, but that may be it for a while. As a favor, instead of people mentioning how some of you dislike Bisu (whether it be him, his play, or because of annoying fanboys ) when its not necessary to point out, take the time to appreciate someone who had a large impact on your favorite game instead. I'll say more in a blog when I return. This is the end to a great chapter in my life and I'm very happy I got to share it with all of you on TL.
I'll be blunt: this makes it sound like you liked the player more than the game.
On September 09 2013 12:36 ArvickHero wrote: Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
This sums it up really well for me. Being just a little older then bisu it feels like I just lost a childhood friend. I probably won't be posting or be around TL for a while now. I'm going to take this time to finally take a break from Starcraft. I'll still do my TL Staff work, but that may be it for a while. As a favor, instead of people mentioning how some of you dislike Bisu (whether it be him, his play, or because of annoying fanboys ) when its not necessary to point out, take the time to appreciate someone who had a large impact on your favorite game instead. I'll say more in a blog when I return. This is the end to a great chapter in my life and I'm very happy I got to share it with all of you on TL.
whelps, we lost another one folks >< You can't tell me you plan to be less on here since Bisu doesn't play SCII. Should at least be glad that he gets to do something he enjoys and follow him throughout. It's what makes a true fan!
On September 09 2013 12:46 BisuDagger wrote: edit: spoiler that horrible gif plz ^ <3
On September 09 2013 12:36 ArvickHero wrote: Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
This sums it up really well for me. Being just a little older then bisu it feels like I just lost a childhood friend. I probably won't be posting or be around TL for a while now. I'm going to take this time to finally take a break from Starcraft. I'll still do my TL Staff work, but that may be it for a while. As a favor, instead of people mentioning how some of you dislike Bisu (whether it be him, his play, or because of annoying fanboys ) when its not necessary to point out, take the time to appreciate someone who had a large impact on your favorite game instead. I'll say more in a blog when I return. This is the end to a great chapter in my life and I'm very happy I got to share it with all of you on TL.
I'll be blunt: this makes it sound like you liked the player more than the game.
Well for me I liked the game before I liked the player, but then the player became the game for me.. perhaps not with BisuDagger but yeah~ Pretty much got into pro SC because of Bisu... Let's say I liked the game and the player complemented it~
I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
Um... Bisu has probably the highest peak APM as far as I know... oh wait maybe Hyuk where he stayed >450 the whole game but he's Hyuk~ But what sets Bisu apart is his high EAPM. His FPVODs are extremely clean as many casters have mentioned~ Here's Bisu's B.Net attack we can watch in hopes to seeing his stream up soon~
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
Has busy already been playing? I just saw the mention of a game Against larva?
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
Has busy already been playing? I just saw the mention of a game Against larva?
Yeah during regular season. Bisu frequently sneaks on Afreeca to play BW.
Well... this is pretty big news.. DAMN !!! My favourite player !!!
I'm SOOOOO hoping that he is going to stream some BW ! And I think he won't miss such a big opportunity. It would be super beneficial for him to stream.
On September 09 2013 12:36 ArvickHero wrote: Even though his possibility of playing SOSPA makes me happy, I'm still really sad that he's had to retire in the end. He was so incredibly dedicated as a progamer, and the fact that he really couldn't see himself as anything BUT a progamer makes me even sadder .. I really wish him the best in whatever he does next.
This sums it up really well for me. Being just a little older then bisu it feels like I just lost a childhood friend. I probably won't be posting or be around TL for a while now. I'm going to take this time to finally take a break from Starcraft. I'll still do my TL Staff work, but that may be it for a while. As a favor, instead of people mentioning how some of you dislike Bisu (whether it be him, his play, or because of annoying fanboys ) when its not necessary to point out, take the time to appreciate someone who had a large impact on your favorite game instead. I'll say more in a blog when I return. This is the end to a great chapter in my life and I'm very happy I got to share it with all of you on TL.
oh man
This is sort of good news if Bisu starts playing BW again, but its still the end of an era. TL should have a black ribbon on the banner or something.
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
Um... Bisu has probably the highest peak APM as far as I know... oh wait maybe Hyuk where he stayed >450 the whole game but he's Hyuk~ But what sets Bisu apart is his high EAPM. His FPVODs are extremely clean as many casters have mentioned~ Here's Bisu's B.Net attack we can watch in hopes to seeing his stream up soon~
I totally agree that his play is very clean, there is also a reason why the commentators called it clean rather than just fast. While he has an incredibly high EAPM/APM ratio his EAPM is not itself extraordinarily high (mainly because his raw apm is not exceptional).
I encourage you to do a search on bisu in the replay database, he is between 300-350 apm(raw) in every single game, but one where he was sub300 apm. I'm not saying his play isn't clean, or even that he isn't fast, merely that his speed doesn't actually show up in raw apm stats. Eg he is fast, in that he has incredibly multitasking, doing lots of things at once, but his handspeed isn't exceptional.
You can see in his FPViews, both on the vid you linked, as well as the ones from actual competitive games, what sets him apart in his play is how frequent he switches to different parts of the maps. It's only a couple of clicks, before he moves onto something else, it's actually really surprising how little time he spends on 1 screen, even in intense micro situations.
But he definitely does not have either the highest peak apm, or an exceptionally high average apm. He is on the quick end for a protoss, and his EAPM is quite high, disproportionately compared to his raw apm compared to other top protosses near the end of bw. But these are not exceptional numbers for top protosses as BW neared it's end.
He was exceptionally fast for a protoss when he first burst onto the scene, but that level of hand speed eventually became the norm among top protosses, even stork was only about 20-30 apm slower than him by the end of their respective BW careers. Some P's like Jangbi and Rain were actually faster on just raw numbers. What he had over other protosses was not something reflected in APM.
What really sets him apart is, as we all agree, how clean his play is, it just so happens that this is something that can't be seen from APM/EAPM stats, just from how dizzying his fpview is.
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
On September 09 2013 13:32 trifecta wrote: liquid should sponsor sospa players. Liquid`Jangbi, Liquid`Sea, Liquid`Bisu, Liquid`Jaehoon, Liquid`Killer. It'd be like having the team of bw dreams.
On September 09 2013 17:32 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:27 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
OGN/MBC probably show peaks, or some weird aggregate. There is theoretically only 1 way to calculate raw apm. LOTS of ways to calculate EAPM unfortunately, though it will never be higher than the raw apm.
Edit: from memory I think those apms were either his peak average, or average peak.
On September 09 2013 13:32 trifecta wrote: liquid should sponsor sospa players. Liquid`Jangbi, Liquid`Sea, Liquid`Bisu, Liquid`Jaehoon, Liquid`Killer. It'd be like having the team of bw dreams.
On September 09 2013 17:32 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:27 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
Bisu did not have 450 sustained APM in any matchup. He has a pretty stable ~330 APM in televised games, respectably fast for a Protoss progamer, but mostly notable for how clean and effective his actions were. Bisu's speed wasn't reflected in numbers so much, you just had to see it -- Stork is noted* for thinking the speed at which Bisu played is unbelievable and that he wished he could play so fast, despite being a ~300 APM player himself. Stork's reaction to seeing Bisu play isn't the reaction of just seeing 10% more actions.
*The thought of trying to source this quote is extremely daunting and not something that is going to happen, sorry. ;_;
On September 09 2013 17:32 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:27 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
*The thought of trying to source this quote is extremely daunting and not something that is going to happen, sorry. ;_;
On September 09 2013 17:32 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:27 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
Bisu did not have 450 sustained APM in any matchup. He has a pretty stable ~330 APM in televised games, respectably fast for a Protoss progamer, but mostly notable for how clean and effective his actions were. Bisu's speed wasn't reflected in numbers so much, you just had to see it -- Stork is noted* for thinking the speed at which Bisu played is unbelievable and that he wished he could play so fast, despite being a ~300 APM player himself. Stork's reaction to seeing Bisu play isn't the reaction of just seeing 10% more actions.
*The thought of trying to source this quote is extremely daunting and not something that is going to happen, sorry. ;_;
stork is not 300 apm player .. 260-280 apm..and bisu speed its about how many camera actions can he do in the same time.for example bisu vs flash ace match proleague finals >.>
No. My Protoss hopes are with Bisu and Fall!Anytime. Instead of Yellow, Savior. Instead of Boxer, Sea.
Once upon a time, it wasn't like that. I used to believe in Yellow and Reach, just like I used to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. I used to believe, no, I knew that Yellow, Reach and Boxer were the Justice League, and whoever they were playing that week were evil enslaving zombies from outer space. When Boxer showed me quantum physics, when Yellow went for the neck and didn't let go, when Reach ran straight into a containment and warriored his way through, I would feel blessed: my faith justified, my fandom re-affirmed. But as I watched more games, I learned to see in terms of strategies and angles, to watch each match as a fine-tuned exercise of unit supply and APM. I began to see the flow of the game in terms of management and threat.
I'm glad that I know the game better now. I'm a better fan now that I can objectively judge each players' strengths and weaknesses.
And it saves me a lot of grief. Why? Because those motherfuckers broke my heart. Not in the way that Yukie Chang broke my heart in 10th grade, but more like the way my mom broke my heart when she told me, "No HonestTea, you can't walk through that wardrobe because there is no Narnia." (YOU MAY HAVE GAVE BIRTH TO ME BUT I KNOW YOU ARE LYING! LYING!) When I saw Boxer screw up that bunker rush, I had to stand up, leave my desk, and go outside to look up at the sky. That was just because the general principle of it was so damn sad. Imagine how broken I would have been if I actually was rooting for Boxer.
Because when I see Yellow it reminds me that July might never win that Golden Mouse, that I may never see IntoTheRainbow again. It reminds me that someday, even Savior and Bisu will stop being bulletproof. Yellow's dumb presence at the KTF bench every game only serves to haunt me, an all-too-obvious example of mortality. He is a breathing, walking, memento mori.
On September 09 2013 17:32 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:27 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
Bisu did not have 450 sustained APM in any matchup. He has a pretty stable ~330 APM in televised games, respectably fast for a Protoss progamer, but mostly notable for how clean and effective his actions were. Bisu's speed wasn't reflected in numbers so much, you just had to see it -- Stork is noted* for thinking the speed at which Bisu played is unbelievable and that he wished he could play so fast, despite being a ~300 APM player himself. Stork's reaction to seeing Bisu play isn't the reaction of just seeing 10% more actions.
*The thought of trying to source this quote is extremely daunting and not something that is going to happen, sorry. ;_;
and bisu speed its about how many camera actions can he do in the same time.for example bisu vs flash ace match proleague finals >.>
On September 09 2013 17:32 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:27 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 16:06 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:46 Caladbolg wrote:
On September 09 2013 14:21 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I just hope that short break isn't like just a few months. It'll be great to see Bisu playing BW again, and from FPVIEW! OMG!
He seems to be in better form than Jangbi atm, judging solely from the game where Bisu pretty much humiliated Larva in that one game on Larva's stream.
I mean it's just 1 game in 1 matchup, but it's kinda important to be good at PvZ atm. Jangbi has been kinda out of form in that department.
If anyone remembers those times that they have flashed up Bisu's FPView briefly in official games, and marvelled at how good his multi-task is, imagine that hours on end. We are going to get migraines from watching his stream :D
So hyped for this, migraine toss gogo! :D
My experience in watching Bisu's FPVODs is similar to my experience when I played Quake 3. At first, I couldn't stand more than 3 minutes of it. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, it was headache-inducing, and it seemed almost inhuman to play at a decent level, let alone a professional level. Afterwards, I got used to the game and then enjoyed it. Later on, when I got better, I realized just how amazing the little things are: from memorizing the ramp/portal positions (similar to rally points for probes and units) so you can jump into them without looking at them, to the small strafe moves that can make or break your game (probably like Bisu's small unit micro with goons and lots), to the absolutely flashy plays with rails and rockets (like Bisu's harass with reavers/HTs).
Bisu's FPVOD is the cleanest of all the "inhuman mechanics" monsters I've seen (i.e. Jaedong, Baby, Jangbi, Kal, Effort, Hydra, Leta) and is probably the second most impressive to watch behind Flash's FPVOD (the kid is just so efficient at playing it's mind boggling - I think his EAPM from the replays of his prime is just as high as Bisu's, around 250, even if Bisu's APM is 100 higher at 350 vs 450).
Bisu's apm is on average low 300's most games, I think he only gets to 400 average on really really intense games, in his early/mid career, by his late career he and Flash are pretty much the same speed APMwise (Flash is actually faster when playing bio). He gets a reputation for being really really fast, but he's actually not. I mean his APM is up there, but it's actually lower than some other protosses (eg Jangbi, who's between 350-400). It's really the rate that he switches from 1 place on the map to another that sets him apart. He only does like 1 or 2 things in 1 place before switching again, so it's really hard to keep up with what his doing, but his handspeed is not superdooper fast like people seem to think it is.
If I were to take a guess, Flash and Bisu actually have similar EAPMs as well, which I guess is impressive in itself, as P's generally have lower EAPMs since there are few things to do that require pure handspeed, whereas T has stuff to do en mass that requires mechanical 'unthinking' clicking, eg placing a large minefield or keeping a large number of raxes running.
I don't even know where you got that low 300s number. In PvZ he goes up to 450. In PvT 400. In PvP 380+.
TL has a nifty database of replays, since progamers didn't leak replays much these are pretty much all you have to work with.
Watch out though, a couple of the replays in that are not actually of him (i guess the uploaders were pulling a jumperer on us). But most of them are him, any of the ones with the alias ssregi are Bisu.
Ah yeah those replays. Hm well do they use the same formula as the ones OGN/MBC posted? Because as far as I recall, every Bisu game had very high APM numbers when they flashed it on-screen.
Bisu did not have 450 sustained APM in any matchup. He has a pretty stable ~330 APM in televised games, respectably fast for a Protoss progamer, but mostly notable for how clean and effective his actions were. Bisu's speed wasn't reflected in numbers so much, you just had to see it -- Stork is noted* for thinking the speed at which Bisu played is unbelievable and that he wished he could play so fast, despite being a ~300 APM player himself. Stork's reaction to seeing Bisu play isn't the reaction of just seeing 10% more actions.
*The thought of trying to source this quote is extremely daunting and not something that is going to happen, sorry. ;_;
and bisu speed its about how many camera actions can he do in the same time.for example bisu vs flash ace match proleague finals >.>
That's what he was saying
Fastest players are always zerg players because of ZvZ training. Jangbi earlier today on stream was talking about hero's apm while obsing him, going to 500 -600 non stop.
I don't know what everyone's so happy about exactly, do you really want someone you respect and perhaps idolize to be out of a job with everything completely up in the air? Why celebrate what is probably a very difficult part of someone's life, given that Bisu's probably tried really hard for the past year to transition? Seems like a form of extreme self indulgence to me, but hey that's what fans do right so who am I to rain on your parade. I would be wishing that Bisu went to a more stable career and did what ever he wanted to on the side for recreation, if it's BW then hey free entertainment for his previous fans, if it's not I still support him on what ever he chooses to do.
On September 09 2013 19:46 Caihead wrote: I don't know what everyone's so happy about exactly, do you really want someone you respect and perhaps idolize to be out of a job with everything completely up in the air? Why celebrate what is probably a very difficult part of someone's life, given that Bisu's probably tried really hard for the past year to transition? Seems like a form of extreme self indulgence to me, but hey that's what fans do right so who am I to rain on your parade. I would be wishing that Bisu went to a more stable career and did what ever he wanted to on the side for recreation, if it's BW then hey free entertainment for his previous fans, if it's not I still support him on what ever he chooses to do.
We're happy that he might go back to playing a game he loves instead. And that we might get to see him stream BW. Not really rocket science. I'd rather he did something he enjoyed doing than something he didn't but got paid well and stably in.
Having financial security is nice, but lets face it, Bisu has been pretty well paid in the BW portion of his career, he is probably financially stable for the time being, and the SC2 train isn't going to keep chugging along forever. Having a stable pay package is great, but being able to pursue your dreams? Even if just for a while before going to the military.
On September 09 2013 19:46 Caihead wrote: I don't know what everyone's so happy about exactly, do you really want someone you respect and perhaps idolize to be out of a job with everything completely up in the air? Why celebrate what is probably a very difficult part of someone's life, given that Bisu's probably tried really hard for the past year to transition? Seems like a form of extreme self indulgence to me, but hey that's what fans do right so who am I to rain on your parade. I would be wishing that Bisu went to a more stable career and did what ever he wanted to on the side for recreation, if it's BW then hey free entertainment for his previous fans, if it's not I still support him on what ever he chooses to do.
He willingly quit his job; he was not fired. There's nothing bad or sad about quitting doing something that you do not enjoy. Now he can pursue doing other things that makes him happy. I guess he needs to get his military duty over with first, but he would need to do that anyways sooner or later.
On September 09 2013 19:46 Caihead wrote: I don't know what everyone's so happy about exactly, do you really want someone you respect and perhaps idolize to be out of a job with everything completely up in the air? Why celebrate what is probably a very difficult part of someone's life, given that Bisu's probably tried really hard for the past year to transition? Seems like a form of extreme self indulgence to me, but hey that's what fans do right so who am I to rain on your parade. I would be wishing that Bisu went to a more stable career and did what ever he wanted to on the side for recreation, if it's BW then hey free entertainment for his previous fans, if it's not I still support him on what ever he chooses to do.
His passion was for BW and they killed it. Force-fed him this bullshit of a game. Think of it as MJ playing baseball when we all know that basketball was his passion.
Tell me, if Flash was in Bisu's shoes, what would you feel if Flash retired?
bisu been my favourite player for so long, throughout all his slumps and up and downs(even tried to watch sc2 cuz of him but..). so good to see that he might come back to bw and play in sospa~
This is another indicator that dustin browder and co are completelly incompetent if you ask me. I wonder if they have an idea what was Starcraft before they started to make sc2, cuz saying "Starcraft is all about controlling big armies" is just ignorant and seeing his job done so far, maybe he really think this is all about starcraft.
Ive been saying since the "new begining" that this is the begining of the end for korean Starcraft. Scene which paved the way to esports, so pure and sacred that its a shame Blizzard fell so low to destroy it. There were always people who said to me, "this is not the truth, youre just hater" or "fanboy" but where is the truth when legandary players feel uncomfortable with the game, and they keep on retiring? Not to mention its low popullarity in korea. Its really sad, for all the fans, but its much more for the progamers. I hope bisu and others, dont take it too hard and reamain strong enough to move on. Good luck and have fun, BW is waiting for you Bisu!
Damn, I always knew this day would come and now that it has I don't know what to think. Bisu has always been my favourite player and he's the one who brought me into SC progaming, I sincerely wish him nothing but the best for the future and I hope he finds happiness after his military service.
If his short break is anything like Best's then I hope, for my sake, he can participate one last time in BW. Even if it's just one short SRT to give me closure so that we can both move on with our lives from SC.
I initially wrote a 3 page reply but it went too off topic. Generally I think that it's too self indulgent and selfish for fans to assume that progamers who started their careers at 14-18 had the capacity and assets to make life long decisions regarding their education, career paths, and personal outlooks and responsibilities in life. It's also delusional to think that any hobby or sport should always be popular, especially with a mainstream audience. There are many problems with the esports industry right now which are common with the vices of the entertainment industry, namely that there isn't any "way out" or plan being offered to retiring progamers at all, and not enough attention is given to the personal development of progamers/athletes outside of their one technical field.
There is something futile in the effort to debate fans on a website dedicated to fandom around the specific industry I'm forced to be skeptical of, but right now in terms of making rational responsible decisions esports is still not a field that I would ever recommend to anyone to participate in. Bisu is one of those players who's enjoyed success and shows genuine passion so it's an easy sell for a feel good story, but I don't agree with the attitude of some of the response here. That's all.
On September 09 2013 19:46 Caihead wrote: I don't know what everyone's so happy about exactly, do you really want someone you respect and perhaps idolize to be out of a job with everything completely up in the air? Why celebrate what is probably a very difficult part of someone's life, given that Bisu's probably tried really hard for the past year to transition? Seems like a form of extreme self indulgence to me, but hey that's what fans do right so who am I to rain on your parade. I would be wishing that Bisu went to a more stable career and did what ever he wanted to on the side for recreation, if it's BW then hey free entertainment for his previous fans, if it's not I still support him on what ever he chooses to do.
Woah, someone is galvanized because Flash ain't doing the same.
On September 09 2013 20:48 _Animus_ wrote: This is another indicator that dustin browder and co are completelly incompetent if you ask me. I wonder if they have an idea what was Starcraft before they started to make sc2, cuz saying "Starcraft is all about controlling big armies" is just ignorant and seeing his job done so far, maybe he really think this is all about starcraft.
Ive been saying since the "new begining" that this is the begining of the end for korean Starcraft. Scene which paved the way to esports, so pure and sacred that its a shame Blizzard fell so low to destroy it. There were always people who said to me, "this is not the truth, youre just hater" or "fanboy" but where is the truth when legandary players feel uncomfortable with the game, and they keep on retiring? Not to mention its low popullarity in korea. Its really sad, for all the fans, but its much more for the progamers. I hope bisu and others, dont take it too hard and reamain strong enough to move on. Good luck and have fun, BW is waiting for you Bisu!
Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
This is worse than a few broken hearts. This is the greatest loss to progaming since the retirement of iloveoov because of a wrist injury that wasn't healing.
Do you remember that event? It coincided with Bisu's transfer to SKT1!
Bye, Kim Taek Yong, and thanks for giving us The Revolution.
On September 09 2013 23:25 Mirabel_ wrote: This is worse than a few broken hearts. This is the greatest loss to progaming since the retirement of iloveoov because of a wrist injury that wasn't healing.
Do you remember that event? It coincided with Bisu's transfer to SKT1!
Bye, Kim Taek Yong, and thanks for giving us The Revolution.
Greatest loss would be all of them shifting from BW to SC2 ..
On September 09 2013 23:19 PIJAMA wrote: Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
Thank you for sharing this ! While I never been in a bad situation, I can definitely relate, Bisu, (and also Boxer, if you haven't read his biography yet... you know what you have to do) have inspired me so much.
On September 09 2013 23:19 PIJAMA wrote: Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
wow deep thing gj in life bro , as a zerg player Bisu was the slayer and it was so interresting to watch, i wana see that again
Sc2 don't suit bisu's multi tasking and harrass skill, basically tactical and mechanical game, it suits samsung tosses like stork and jangbi most.
Not surprised he gets huge paycut, i think all of them got cut. Screw blizzard really didn't want to keep sc1 due to korea taking over the game and lack of foreigners competing.
Well, someone posted this as a rumor earlier, so it's pretty much as expected. Hopefully, he will join SOSPA, even though we don't need any more dirty Protosses.
On September 09 2013 23:19 PIJAMA wrote: Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
Thank you for sharing this ! While I never been in a bad situation, I can definitely relate, Bisu, (and also Boxer, if you haven't read his biography yet... you know what you have to do) have inspired me so much.
I also read boxer biography as soon as it was translated, besides I am not much a 'book' person. I think its the best book I've ever read. Nowadays, I still watch old vods... Good times.
On September 09 2013 23:19 PIJAMA wrote: Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
wow deep thing gj in life bro , as a zerg player Bisu was the slayer and it was so interresting to watch, i wana see that again
Actually, I was zerg too and switched races because of Bisu... Also looking forward to some 'beesuit' bonjwa fighting again!
On September 10 2013 02:50 hifriend wrote: His PvZ was hands down the most awesome thing I ever saw in bw. In sc2, I just think he picked the wrong race.
Or maybe it wasn't fun for him while trying to make it a living. I mean he did have a choice to change race instead of retiring.
On September 10 2013 02:50 hifriend wrote: His PvZ was hands down the most awesome thing I ever saw in bw. In sc2, I just think he picked the wrong race.
Or maybe it wasn't fun for him while trying to make it a living. I mean he did have a choice to change race instead of retiring.
A lot of them felt like they had to stick to their race for the fans, despite Bisu wanting to switch to Terran (which is the multi-tasking and harass race in SC2), and Flash wanted to switch to Protoss (which is the turtle race)
On September 10 2013 02:50 hifriend wrote: His PvZ was hands down the most awesome thing I ever saw in bw. In sc2, I just think he picked the wrong race.
Or maybe it wasn't fun for him while trying to make it a living. I mean he did have a choice to change race instead of retiring.
A lot of them felt like they had to stick to their race for the fans, despite Bisu wanting to switch to Terran (which is the multi-tasking and harass race in SC2), and Flash wanted to switch to Protoss (which is the turtle race)
I think their fans rather have them try switch race than retire.
Oh yuss, I keep coming back, and keep finding this highly predictable news popping up left and right, it all feels like it was foretold a while ago, maybe because it was, but OMG, funny thing is I was expecting it to take a bit longer to go down. In the end, you simply cannot buy your way into a place where only passion drives.
I add my hopes that Bisu will stream from time to time, and hopefully join SOSPA.
On September 09 2013 23:19 PIJAMA wrote: Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
On September 09 2013 23:19 PIJAMA wrote: Bisu, I am pretty sure you are not going to read this, but 2006 was the most difficult year in my life. I used to work fixing computer, lived in a shitty hotel and barely had enough money to buy food. At that time, I had been watching starcraft for about an year and it was my only pleasure. Savior was the unbeatable dictator of the game. When you destroyed him at MSL finals, it changed my life. Your bisu build was just so perfect, it made me think nothing is impossible. You gave me inspiration and courage to move on. Today I have a good job and live in a nice place. I just want to say thank you. You will always be the best protoss ever! The only truth revolutionist!
On September 10 2013 02:50 hifriend wrote: His PvZ was hands down the most awesome thing I ever saw in bw. In sc2, I just think he picked the wrong race.
Or maybe it wasn't fun for him while trying to make it a living. I mean he did have a choice to change race instead of retiring.
Well it's a lot of work switching at this point but I think he would have been more successful had he switched right away. But sure he might not have enjoyed the game at all, that's bound to happen with a few of those guys.
On September 09 2013 21:58 Caihead wrote: I initially wrote a 3 page reply but it went too off topic. Generally I think that it's too self indulgent and selfish for fans to assume that progamers who started their careers at 14-18 had the capacity and assets to make life long decisions regarding their education, career paths, and personal outlooks and responsibilities in life. It's also delusional to think that any hobby or sport should always be popular, especially with a mainstream audience. There are many problems with the esports industry right now which are common with the vices of the entertainment industry, namely that there isn't any "way out" or plan being offered to retiring progamers at all, and not enough attention is given to the personal development of progamers/athletes outside of their one technical field.
There is something futile in the effort to debate fans on a website dedicated to fandom around the specific industry I'm forced to be skeptical of, but right now in terms of making rational responsible decisions esports is still not a field that I would ever recommend to anyone to participate in. Bisu is one of those players who's enjoyed success and shows genuine passion so it's an easy sell for a feel good story, but I don't agree with the attitude of some of the response here. That's all.
I think you're wrong. All A-team players have their board paid for them and a small salary they don't have to touch and can let grow while they're playing. For someone like Bisu, he's going to have a lot more in the bank (especially being popular enough to have done advertisements).
All of them know the path of a progamer is hard, and had that beaten into their head by their parents for ages until they finally convinced them to let them have a chance. b-teamers who don't make it lose a few months to a year of their life and give up.
It is like traveling. It's a hell of an experience and it looks ok on your resume, but it doesn't directly advance your long term career options. That doesn't make it bad. What's bad is being told to go to a country you didn't want to go to for a year ;p Now Bisu can go back to his life and figure things out.
With his looks and popularity tho, he could honestly go into k-drama or the like after his military service. Bisu is one person who had a lot of options. The time to feel sorry for these players was a year ago ;p Now as their contracts expire they get to choose what they want to do. I don't have the insight to say whether or not bisu put his heart into practicing SC2 and it just didn't click, but I do know if I were dominant player in BW who'd paid all my dues and come out of a slump with such convincing play, I'd have a hard time forgiving my luck that made all that hard work unusable. So again... if there's anything to feel sorry about, it's that he had to waste so much time the last year instead of starting the next stage of his life sooner. Him being free from that and people being happy for him is not necessarily self-indulgent. He doesn't necessarily have to play BW, but if he does it'll be like all the other expros playing BW... mainly as a hobby and for fun. Nothing tragic about that.
Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
On September 10 2013 07:25 OpticalShot wrote: Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
On September 10 2013 07:25 OpticalShot wrote: Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
On September 10 2013 07:25 OpticalShot wrote: Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
but thats actually just more speculation?
to be fair, the part about the contract probably wasn't(if it was indeed end of Sept for negotiations and such).
Article as a whole may be a speculative kind of thing, but it does present a number of factors that are based on observations, facts, and past interviews. I guess that's the point.
On September 10 2013 08:57 eeChiama wrote: Never really watched broodwar, but I'm getting into it right now and can't stop watching Bisu's vods I really hope he streams.
On September 09 2013 11:25 Shinokuki wrote: Saw jangbi get 40,000 balloons.
May I ask what a balloon is ? I know it's related to afreeca streaming, but can't possibly imagine why it would be so important.
Balloons are donations from viewers. 1 balloon = 9 US cents, roughly. Afreeca takes a cut, so the streamer gets 70% and Afreeca gets 30%.Those 40000 balloons are 2.5k USD after Afreeca takes their cut.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
Now I only have Fantasy, and I didn't even want him in the first place.
I don't follow SC2 hardly at all, but this still sucks. I hope after military Bisu will come back and stream some BW for us. He will get all my balloons, if you know what I mean.
On September 10 2013 10:00 sh4w wrote: This is so sad
Now I only have Fantasy, and I didn't even want him in the first place.
I don't follow SC2 hardly at all, but this still sucks. I hope after military Bisu will come back and stream some BW for us. He will get all my balloons, if you know what I mean.
sorry, couldn't help laughing at that bolded part lol. SKT T1 fan only because of Bisu? Should be for the team. Fantasy, Bisu, Best, all great
On September 10 2013 10:00 sh4w wrote: This is so sad
Now I only have Fantasy, and I didn't even want him in the first place.
I don't follow SC2 hardly at all, but this still sucks. I hope after military Bisu will come back and stream some BW for us. He will get all my balloons, if you know what I mean.
sorry, couldn't help laughing at that bolded part lol. SKT T1 fan only because of Bisu? Should be for the team. Fantasy, Bisu, Best, all great
Initially, yes, only because of Bisu. Fantasy quickly grew on me though and is definitely my second favorite player ^_^ He's why Terran is my favorite race, and why I enjoy the TvT match up so much. But let's face it, the best part of Fantasy is making fun of him
I was looking forward to rooting for Bisu if I ever decided to give Sc2 a try, but I guess I'll have to settle for Fantasy :D (Never Flash >:O)
On September 10 2013 10:00 sh4w wrote: This is so sad
Now I only have Fantasy, and I didn't even want him in the first place.
I don't follow SC2 hardly at all, but this still sucks. I hope after military Bisu will come back and stream some BW for us. He will get all my balloons, if you know what I mean.
sorry, couldn't help laughing at that bolded part lol. SKT T1 fan only because of Bisu? Should be for the team. Fantasy, Bisu, Best, all great
Initially, yes, only because of Bisu. Fantasy quickly grew on me though and is definitely my second favorite player ^_^ He's why Terran is my favorite race, and why I enjoy the TvT match up so much. But let's face it, the best part of Fantasy is making fun of him
I was looking forward to rooting for Bisu if I ever decided to give Sc2 a try, but I guess I'll have to settle for Fantasy :D (Never Flash >:O)
talk about hardcore SKT T1 fan :O Flash > fantasy. I said it
On September 10 2013 07:25 OpticalShot wrote: Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
It's been awhile since I see you translate sth OpticalShot. I'm glad that we can say thanks for the translation again
The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
On September 10 2013 07:33 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: Thank you for that translation, Optical. Kind of cements what a lot of people have been saying about sc2 in Korea, and possibly a rebound for BW.
I would so be down for a return to brood war don't think it's gonna happen though. Maybe LotV will be more like bw.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
On September 10 2013 16:50 GTR wrote: sc2 killed itself. esports lives on through league of legends.
I'd have wanted it to be DotA 2, but I'll settle for what we have. I just hope that Riot doesn't completely abandon it or even worse try to deliberately kill it when they have to move to LoL 2.0, if people like it more.
On September 10 2013 16:50 GTR wrote: sc2 killed itself. esports lives on through league of legends.
I'd have wanted it to be DotA 2, but I'll settle for what we have. I just hope that Riot doesn't completely abandon it or even worse try to deliberately kill it when they have to move to LoL 2.0, if people like it more.
We can only hope that they learned from Blizzard's mistakes in that regard... so far it's looking pretty decent though, since OGN seems rather free to do their own thing if you compare it to WCS or something. OGN runs a completely different format from the tournament that Riot organizes in the West (LCS), while WCS is pretty streamlined by Blizzard, with them wanting to "unify" everything. So, maybe this is an indicator for Riot being a bit more open about the Korean scene, who knows.
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
so if i read opticalshot's translation right, blizzard took down the king (BW) and then it's baby (SC2) got owned by LoL.
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
so if i read opticalshot's translation right, blizzard took down the king (BW) and then it's baby (SC2) got owned by LoL.
the match fixing scandal brought it down further too
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
Citation needed.
There was no forced transtion. Blizzard tried to negotiate SC2 rights with KeSPA before the game was launched, KeSPA told them where to shove it and banned their players from the game. They would have been happy playing Brood War forever if it had remained feasible.
The only thing that forced a transition was Brood War's continuing decline in popularity. Don't forget, KeSPA lost three different teams _and_ the MSL in the year before the switch.
A legend, and an amazing player. I remember his games versus Flash fondly. I'm glad these BW players are retiring, it's not fitting for these legends to hang around on benches. Better to move on with their lives, or at least return to the game they were passionate about.
On September 10 2013 16:50 GTR wrote: sc2 killed itself. esports lives on through league of legends.
Thank god you're GTR, an old and very respectable member of TL, or else you'd probably be tarred and feathered for this statement.
I think the original writer's intent was to: 1) say that SC2 doesn't even compare with LoL in terms of popularity (LoL is sooooooooo far ahead of everything else) 2) say that SC2's popularity in PL (remember they started SC2 with this mixed abomination league thing?) has declined significantly (hey now that I look at it, significantly is a better choice of word than severely)
In the mixed PL (transition period), I think there were still decent number of fans showing up - especially in the beginning of that season. I may have even translated an article about how there are good number of fans coming to the Yongsan stadium that time...
Oh, okay I guess I really didn't know that, then. I somehow assumed SC2 was always as popular/unpopular as it is now, since you often heard these stories about how everyone left when the BW games were over and SC2 started in the hybrid proleague and all that stuff.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
Citation needed.
There was no forced transtion. Blizzard tried to negotiate SC2 rights with KeSPA before the game was launched, KeSPA told them where to shove it and banned their players from the game. They would have been happy playing Brood War forever if it had remained feasible.
The only thing that forced a transition was Brood War's continuing decline in popularity. Don't forget, KeSPA lost three different teams _and_ the MSL in the year before the switch.
hwaseung and mbc weren't really related to brood war; hwaseung at least wanted to "move on" to higher levels of sponsorship i.e. football, mbc was converted to a music channel due to music being more popular than any individual video game (and things like the MBC goodbye show said MBC wasn't closing due to financial reasons, etc etc. But that's more speculation)
also papa blizzard 100% stepped in to proleague. This proleague supposedly had the highest payout of any proleague season, etc. That doesn't just magically happen when no new sponsors are announced
rather than accept a smaller decline (eg could change OSL prize from 35,000 USD to say 25,000 USD, etc etc) kespa negotiated stuff to try to "go for broke" and failed. They hoped starcraft II would grow and it didn't
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
Citation needed.
There was no forced transtion. Blizzard tried to negotiate SC2 rights with KeSPA before the game was launched, KeSPA told them where to shove it and banned their players from the game. They would have been happy playing Brood War forever if it had remained feasible.
The only thing that forced a transition was Brood War's continuing decline in popularity. Don't forget, KeSPA lost three different teams _and_ the MSL in the year before the switch.
It wasn't a decline in popularity that forced the switch - it was the match fixing scandal. Let's look at the casualty list for match fixing: Sparkyz MBCGame + HERO (probably the biggest loss) eSTRO in part (more because of Blizz) Stability in sponsorship (OSL simply could never find itself a sponsor)
But the fact remains: BW was the best chance any game ever had at being a shining example of esports. It failed, so why would anyone think that SC2 or LoL would fare better?
On September 09 2013 20:48 _Animus_ wrote: This is another indicator that dustin browder and co are completelly incompetent if you ask me. I wonder if they have an idea what was Starcraft before they started to make sc2, cuz saying "Starcraft is all about controlling big armies" is just ignorant and seeing his job done so far, maybe he really think this is all about starcraft.
Ive been saying since the "new begining" that this is the begining of the end for korean Starcraft. Scene which paved the way to esports, so pure and sacred that its a shame Blizzard fell so low to destroy it. There were always people who said to me, "this is not the truth, youre just hater" or "fanboy" but where is the truth when legandary players feel uncomfortable with the game, and they keep on retiring? Not to mention its low popullarity in korea. Its really sad, for all the fans, but its much more for the progamers. I hope bisu and others, dont take it too hard and reamain strong enough to move on. Good luck and have fun, BW is waiting for you Bisu!
Couldn't agree more. SC isn't so much about controlling large armies all at once, but rather controlling many squads. So rather than 100 zergling rallying in because LOL queen larvae and ez rally, two groups of 10-12 lings change the tide of the battle. It baffles me that the designers of SC2 thought not only that the 12-max group design of SC was some technical limitation and not part of the game design, but even more so that they concluded that the best decision was to have absolutely no limit on control group size, so the Dragons of the world can hotkey 40 barracks or whatever.
It's like they were designing game mechanics for stoned monobattles rather than protracted wars.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
Citation needed.
There was no forced transtion. Blizzard tried to negotiate SC2 rights with KeSPA before the game was launched, KeSPA told them where to shove it and banned their players from the game. They would have been happy playing Brood War forever if it had remained feasible.
The only thing that forced a transition was Brood War's continuing decline in popularity. Don't forget, KeSPA lost three different teams _and_ the MSL in the year before the switch.
It wasn't a decline in popularity that forced the switch - it was the match fixing scandal. Let's look at the casualty list for match fixing: Sparkyz MBCGame + HERO (probably the biggest loss) eSTRO in part (more because of Blizz) Stability in sponsorship (OSL simply could never find itself a sponsor)
But the fact remains: BW was the best chance any game ever had at being a shining example of esports. It failed, so why would anyone think that SC2 or LoL would fare better?
BW was actually KILLED.. It didn't die the natural death..
but yeah I agree that if BW could'nt do it.. no other game will.
On September 10 2013 07:33 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: Thank you for that translation, Optical. Kind of cements what a lot of people have been saying about sc2 in Korea, and possibly a rebound for BW.
I would so be down for a return to brood war don't think it's gonna happen though. Maybe LotV will be more like bw.
Too many different game mechanics. You'd basically have to write a new game. Though 12 (24 to be conservative?)-unit group max and single building selection gets you closer, it's not like SC2:BW is really like BW, it's just a novelty.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
edit: the fault also lies partly in kespa's terrible management policies for BW and the kespa-blizzard legal spat.
On September 10 2013 18:33 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 10 2013 17:47 Elroi wrote:
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
edit: the fault also lies partly in kespa's terrible management policies for BW and the kespa-blizzard legal spat.
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
The what, now? As I recall it
1. It gets out that Savior and like half the BW scene are all fixing matches for the Korean mafia. 2. Blizzard attempts to sue KeSPA to make KeSPA pay them a licensing fee. They fail, but KeSPA gets bad PR when they really don't need it. 3. KeSPA continues playing BW for a while, but interest is clearly down from the 2007 highs. The foreign BW scene becomes totally insufferably whiny. 4. KeSPA switches to SC2 in a last-ditch effort to save themselves, as SC2 is seeing explosive foreign growth. 5. SC2 enters the infamous "Brood Lord/Infestor" period, and the growth stops. Somewhere around this period, LoL becomes the dominant e-Sport. 6. SSL becomes a bigger and bigger deal. BW fans know hope. 7. HotS is released. While widely considered to be an improvement over WoL, it's possibly too little too late. 8. SC2 fans turn into 2010 BW fans. BW fans become really smug 9. Lots of KeSPA pros start retiring back to BW. SC2 tournaments have trouble breaking the 120k viewer mark. LoL is the future. 10. A fleet of SC2 ships are destroyed by Riot at Wolf 359 11. SC2's is assimilated by LoL, begins offering unit skins. 12. Flash switches to LoL. Jaedong is given temporary command of the BW scene. 13. Oz reforms, splits into two teams. One is a diversion for the other to rescue Flash from RIOT HQ 14. Using information from Flash, Jaedong destroys LoL. BW reigns supreme. Flash, after vacationing in France, returns to Bonjwa status.
On September 10 2013 18:33 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 10 2013 17:47 Elroi wrote:
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
I think that's a little unfair, especially to the pro players. Scarlett and Naniwa are the only non-Koreans of note, and both of them moved to Korea and Scarlett lives in a Korean teamhouse.
If you skip to 60 minutes in, you'll see a game that I thought was enjoyable. You might think it's crap! Tastes be subjective, yo. But there's a big excited crowd, and you can't act like they're all faking as part of some weird conspiracy.
Ribbon, since you weren't around when it happened (at least you weren't a registered user) and you don't seem to have been that thorough in your research, maybe you shouldn't be the one talking about it. With the matchfixing and the Blizzard lawsuits against KeSPA, I followed every update pretty carefully and read all there was to read about it, and I have a pretty different impression than you do.
// Edit: I guess you signed up literally when the match fixing started ;p Still what you're saying all sounds wrong to me.
The really key point that was controversial when the lawsuits were going around were that Blizzard was raising its broadcasting fees to something MBC and OGN could not afford (they were already paying Blizzard before). The lawsuits were damaging to KeSPA not (just) because of bad press, but because they prevented there from being any BW at all for like half a year. Eventually KeSPA gave into negotiations with Blizzard so that they could start broadcasting again. It's speculation on my part, but I think that negotiation certainly included talk of switching to SC2. The way it looks, Blizzard made the broadcasting fee affordable again in exchange for that. Before that MBC and OGN were saying that they could not run the league at the price Blizzard wanted. The money just didn't exist. If that doesn't sound like they were being strong armed, I don't know what would. If court had continued, Blizzard probably would have won the case, but they would have lost the game channels they wanted to take advantage of to grow SC2.
Your idea of the matchfixing is also wrong. It hit Sparkyz really hard because there were a lot of players on that team involved, but it was not that rooted in any other team. CJ's champion being implicated sucked for them, but then Effort won vs Flash in the OSL final, so they recovered okay.
The teams disbanding was not a result of the unpopularity of what they were running, but that for a long time NOTHING was running. All of that happened after the lawsuits with kespa, so it's harder to say that was entirely the fault of the matchfixing.
On September 11 2013 02:05 Chef wrote: Ribbon, since you weren't around when it happened (at least you weren't a registered user) and you don't seem to have been that thorough in your research, maybe you shouldn't be the one talking about it. With the matchfixing and the Blizzard lawsuits against KeSPA, I followed every update pretty carefully and read all there was to read about it, and I have a pretty different impression than you do.
The really key point that was controversial when the lawsuits were going around were that Blizzard was raising its broadcasting fees to something MBC and OGN could not afford (they were already paying Blizzard before). The lawsuits were damaging to KeSPA not (just) because of bad press, but because they prevented there from being any BW at all for like half a year. Eventually KeSPA gave into negotiations with Blizzard so that they could start broadcasting again. It's speculation on my part, but I think that negotiation certainly included talk of switching to SC2. The way it looks, Blizzard made the broadcasting fee affordable again in exchange for that. Before that MBC and OGN were saying that they could not run the league at the price Blizzard wanted. The money just didn't exist. If that doesn't sound like they were being strong armed, I don't know what would. If court had continued, Blizzard probably would have won the case, but they would have lost the game channels they wanted to take advantage of to grow SC2.
You idea of the matchfixing is also wrong. It hit Sparkyz really hard because there were a lot of players on that team involved, but it was not that rooted in any other team. CJ's champion being implicated sucked for them, but then Effort won vs Flash in the OSL final, so they recovered okay.
The teams disbanding was not a result of the unpopularity of what they were running, but that for a long time NOTHING was running. All of that happened after the lawsuits with kespa, so it's harder to say that was entirely the fault of the matchfixing.
I agree, it actually felt like we had pretty much got over the match fixing thing, yeah there was still alot of argument over what to do with savior (eg whether him streaming on afreeca was a good thing), but for the most part, we pretty much got over it, at least outside of Korea. It was an unpleasant, depressing thing for alot of people to find out about some of their favourite players, but it really felt like we already had new heroes, new metagame and everything was chugging along fine, MSL had been having some trouble finding sponsors, and really that was the only sign of trouble at the time except for the law suit, and honestly we thought good ol Korean corruption was also going to make the court case no more than a distraction.
I think one of the most damning things was that during that period GOM was sueing kespa on blizzard's behalf, there was a rumoured clause on a leaked list of demands that included a planned and scheduled switch from BW to SC2. Now that was only a rumour and it was never confirmed (I believe there was supposed to be a gag order on the conditions anyway).
Then suprise, suprise, right after they come to a settlement, a hybrid season starts, it starts to look very suspicious.
edit: ahh found the thread talking about that rumour, the details might be a bit foggy, but the general jist is in there http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188322 So apparently MBC and OGN were to be licensed to broadcast BW under GOM, but GOM was contracted to transition to SC2, which may or may not have also meant MBC and OGN being licensed under them also had to.
Only teams got affected by Matchfixing are just Hite Sparkys + eStro.
CJ was fine with the Movie, Skyhigh, and Effort trio with up and coming guys such as Snow + Hydra
WeMade Fox disbanded ALL of their guys I'm sure. This includes their CS guys, and WC3 division.
Hwaseung Oz, I'm not so sure but I think the retirement of coach Cho was detrimental to the team's atmosphere. And I would to think that it affected Jaedong the most as it was at that point of his career's decline with him getting multiple silvers.
MBCGame disbanded probably because of the lawsuit. Blizzard specifically targeted the channel for infringement. And Blizzard hired excellent lawyers to go against them. At that time, KPop was rampantly growing in Korea. So it was the perfect compound that decided the fate of the game channel.
On September 11 2013 02:05 Chef wrote: Ribbon, since you weren't around when it happened (at least you weren't a registered user) and you don't seem to have been that thorough in your research, maybe you shouldn't be the one talking about it.
I joined TL in April 2010, as a BW player. I had a blog on ICCUP, under the name Chiponyasu, which this TL account used to be called.
Discussions between KeSPA and Blizz had turned sour literally the week earlier, and these lawsuits went on until 2011, IIRC.
The really key point that was controversial when the lawsuits were going around were that Blizzard was raising its broadcasting fees to something MBC and OGN could not afford (they were already paying Blizzard before). The lawsuits were damaging to KeSPA not (just) because of bad press, but because they prevented there from being any BW at all for like half a year. Eventually KeSPA gave into negotiations with Blizzard so that they could start broadcasting again. It's speculation on my part, but I think that negotiation certainly included talk of switching to SC2.
All the public info about the lawsuits came out of KeSPA, who were trying to make Blizz look as bad as possible, and going "Oh we are but a poor and lowly nonprofit and can not possibly afford to pay fees" (A lot of people seemed to buy into the nonprofit = poor argument KeSPA was making, even though the NFL is a nonprofit). Blizzard also wanted to have a look at KeSPA's books, which they refused. No one really "knows" what was going on because Blizz never told their side of the story.
The way it looks, Blizzard made the broadcasting fee affordable again in exchange for that. Before that MBC and OGN were saying that they could not run the league at the price Blizzard wanted. The money just didn't exist. If that doesn't sound like they were being strong armed, I don't know what would. If court had continued, Blizzard probably would have won the case, but they would have lost the game channels they wanted to take advantage of to grow SC2.
KeSPA was acting like they didn't have any money, and we never did find out what these exorbitant fees really were. All we know if that KeSPA didn't want to pay them.
You idea of the matchfixing is also wrong. It hit Sparkyz really hard because there were a lot of players on that team involved, but it was not that rooted in any other team. CJ's champion being implicated sucked for them, but then Effort won vs Flash in the OSL final, so they recovered okay.
From a PR perspective, it was a buttload of famous players, enough to make the whole league look shady.
The teams disbanding was not a result of the unpopularity of what they were running, but that for a long time NOTHING was running. All of that happened after the lawsuits with kespa, so it's harder to say that was entirely the fault of the matchfixing.
Granted, there was a long time between the Bacchus OSL and the Jin Air OSL, but Proleague was going on, so it's not because they weren't allowed to broadcast BW. There was no prolonged period of no Pro BW during the period between the suits starting and a settlement being reached.
On September 10 2013 07:25 OpticalShot wrote: Drop the speculation, here comes a translation! (shit that rhymes) *edit: ALSO THIS WAS MY 6K POST NOOOOO BISU YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR IT
Source: Fomos Article by Reporter Myung-Hoon Kang Pictures not included because go click that link above and give the poor site some traffic.
The Reasons Behind the Retirement of Bisu, the 'Revolutionist'
Immediately following the retirement of Taek-Yong 'Revolutionist' Kim (Bisu) on the 9th, many have been speculating his reasons for doing so.
While on a break after the conclusion of SK Planet StarCraft 2 Proleague 12-13 Season, Bisu confirmed that he will not continue his career as a progamer. It is truly unfortunate, but this has been somewhat expected for a while now.
When Bisu did not attend the recent progamer ethics education seminars or general events, fans have been worrying about a possible retirement. They all knew that Bisu's career was on a downhill ever since the transition from StarCraft BroodWar to StarCraft 2. Again, Bisu was nowhere to be found in the most recent SKT1 volunteer activity. No longer a rumour, Bisu has indeed retired.
To the point, what are his reasons for retirement? The first thing to come to mind is the salary negotiation. As a top star/ace who enjoyed 6-figure (in dollars) salaries before, he would have a tough time dealing with his massively deflated value. It is only natural for any player to consider retirement if he cannot handle such a downfall. However, it was confirmed with SKT1 management that all player salary/contract negotiations and renewals are typically completed by the end of September, and that they have not started the negotiations with any of their players. In other words, Bisu announced his retirement prior to any salary/contract negotiations.
If money is not the problem, then we can turn to other common themes around the retirement of old boys' of the scene: declining motivations and military service. In fact, Bisu's teammate Best announced his retirement in July, saying that "it's hard to play like before" and also acknowledging the military service obligation. Bisu's situation is not too far from Best's, which brings some understanding to his retirement reasons. Ever since the switch to SC2, Bisu has mentioned in several interviews that "motivations are hard to come by."
In the midst of the hardship, we also must acknowledge that the trademark game of Korean eSports is now League of Legends. Even without drawing comparisons, it's not hard to see that the popularity of SC2 has declined severely. After the complete transition, the stats from SK Planet SC2PL 12-13 season show a grim picture. The number of live attendees is embarrassingly low, especially for weekday matches scheduled in the Shin-do-rim center. There are supposedly a decent number of viewers online, but it doesn't even come close for the star players who enjoyed immense success and recognition from SC1. To be blunt, there is no way that another PL finals can be held in Gwang-ahn-ri with SC2.
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
Glad to see you are still around opti thanks for the translation .
And for the hybrid season, why make players to compete at BOH SC2 and BW? Why not just specific players doing one and the other for superior games? Well it is easily because they are forcing players to play the new game.
I agree with the statements made above in the Icarus comparison...the game should've been allowed to grow on its own and garner popularity by merit not by being somewhat forced... Personally I think what would've been best is trying to run a SC2 league and an independent BW league, this way fans, sponsors, and players could pick what they wanted to support...I know it might not be possible tho cuz of splitting popularity and sponsors might not be ideal...hmm...
I wrote half a year and that was definitely inaccurate. But a month to not be running your business at all is still a long time imo (and it definitely felt like it for fans). I guess I thought it was longer because they had been talking about it even before the current season had ended, and then the next one couldn't start up because they were still dealing with it. I'm sorry for my misinformation.
I believe KeSPA in this case and Blizzard didn't deny it. They ran their leagues for a decade without complain from Blizzard, and then suddenly Blizzard starts caring when they're about to release SC2? "KeSPA didn't want to pay" doesn't really ring so true to me. KeSPA itself is non-profit, but its made up of businesses which are for profit. If the advertising those businesses are paying for doesn't cover the scene anymore, and they don't want to pay more for the same advertising, it all means the same thing. For those businesses it's not exactly a matter of greed. It's a matter of 'well the advertising isn't worth the new price.' If it were still reasonably well priced advertising, I believe it wouldn't have been as a big a mess.
On September 11 2013 03:07 Xiphos wrote: And for the hybrid season, why make players to compete at BOH SC2 and BW? Why not just specific players doing one and the other for superior games? Well it is easily because they are forcing players to play the new game.
Frankenstein season was supposed to introduce the korean bw fans to sc2 which probably playing the illusion to the viewers that the players that they are supporting are also playing sc2 so by that logic they would like sc2 too in a way. Other than that mostly kespa gambled hoping they could get half or more of the viewers who are accustomed to broodwar to follow the scene when they converted Proleague in to 100 % sc2 scene. Which we all know didn't work out the way they wanted to....
Don't forget that DarkElf (Airforce ACE at the time) was part of the matchfixing scandal. As small as he may be in the big picture, this raised concerns about the integrity of ACE and certainly played a factor into their disbandment soon after.
We can't say CJ was fine, they took the biggest blow in terms of public image. The actual skill level of players didn't take a hit because Savior (whether throwing or not) wasn't their main ace player. Savior still had a large fanbase ("I will destroy everyone in 200x"), which also evaporated away from the scene.
How can we forget Hwasin / STX? Their core was something like Calm-Hwasin-Kal at the time, Hwasin also had a lot of fans because of his cute looks, again we lose fans here.
The actual blow in terms of skill wasn't so bad because yes each team had amazing up-and-coming guys to replace the tainted players. Where it hurt the most was the eSports image, and the number of fans. This was an unprecedented event in eSports, which heavily depended on the fan support and interest in order to maintain sponsorship and continue its existence. Disappointed and disgusted, many fans left the scene altogether - a lot of them immediately following the scandal, and a lot more in the following months. If you call, there were regular shows of "After Talk" with OGN casters and sometimes player guests - for the episode immediately following the scandal, these casters practically begged on the show for the fans to remain loyal and come out to the OSL (I believe it was Korean Air OSL S1). Not only in OSL, but in PL and MSL the casters again apologized on behalf of the scene and begged the fans to stay.
It's tough for the foreigners (sorry if that's an uncomfortable term) to feel the full magnitude of the matchfixing scandal because of 1) narrow scope of interest and 2) lack of available media / information. By narrow scope I mean the foreigner fans care for great games and individual players more than the growth/stability of the scene altogether. A great example of this is the post-matchfixing Savior discussion - more western fans remember him for his dominant plays rather than the damage he did to the scene, whereas Korean fans pretty much consider him human trash outside of the tiny tiny hardcore fans who still watch his stream (also occasional forum trolls). By lack of media I mean that shows like "After Talk" I mentioned, countless formal and informal interviews, and other media that connects the fans to the players and the scene is largely missing outside of Korea. As a result, western fans connect with players almost solely through their gameplay, which ties in with the first point about narrow scope.
We can always talk about the bottom line of things, which is that BW had to "die" sometime anyway, so we can't put the sole blame on Blizzard for making a sequel and trying to market it to their best ability. We can also say that matchfixing happened at the time of declining interest in BW, so we can't put the sole blame on Savior / matchfixing either. We can throw in more gray topics like reasons for the end of MBCGame (both team and channel), financial woes for WeMade, etc.
The bottom line is, we look at the scene right now, and it's hard to find anybody that's happy with how things are. Full of negative shit. "Ded gaem is ded" yeah ok that's real nice, does that help your side really? I think Tyler (Nony) mentioned it in both SOTG and in his forum posts too, that this whole place is full of negative energy and people just want their last laughs against each other - and these people actually don't give about the "eSports scene". Almost every aspect of it could have gone better, it didn't.
Accept the shit that's happened - it's not fiction, it's history. Matchfixing happened, it hurt the BW scene, Blizzard came in with lawsuit, it hurt the BW scene, shit all happened and the end result is this crap where one of the iconic figures of the scene (Bisu) retired a defeated figure. His reasons, or combinations of reasons, is still speculative and even when Bisu releases a personal statement I bet that people here won't stop their arguments. We can rather look at the community reaction to his retirement: endless (and not constructive) debate, denial, blame game, sadistic shit picking each other apart, INSTEAD OF CELEBRATING HIS AMAZING CAREER (props to BisuDagger for his huge post in the other thread somewhere). Look at the posts in this thread and especially in the other thread, the ratio of personal attacks and arguments to actual retirement memories/farewell posts are rather staggering.
So when we move on forward, we have to accept what's been done and exercise our power as fans by voting with our wallets and actively showing positive support. Don't go advocating a boycott to other people that actually like the game, just don't open your own wallet when the time comes. Conversely, when good shit comes out, buy the fucking game, watch streams, buy in-game view tickets, whatever. Just because you and other people you know like Nutella you don't have to force feed the stuff to others who are fine with the old-fashioned peanut butter, neither should you actively blame Nutella for peanut butter losing market share.
With that, I'm done my rant, and I believe I should share a small Bisu memory.
I actually cheered for Flash in the beginning of that game 7. He had this wrist injury story and plus SKT1 is the more evil of the two empires so yeah go Flash. Flash sets up an assault and it looks grim for Bisu, then he runs his zealots... and then I remembered that I am a Protoss fan at heart, and that those zealots charged forward with only two certainties: death and victory. May your future be as fearless and successful, Bisu!
ACE was my fantasy proleague team in the last proleague before hybrid league. The wiki says they even participated in the hybrid league and were only replaced by EG-Liquid later. We heard a lot about youth sports honest image being corrupted, but I don't think this was ACE's disbandment reason for SC2. I think SC2 fans just didn't care about the old legends in the same way BW fans did, so running a losing team was more difficult. Either way you're right that this thread is really a shameful place to be having this discussion and I'm sorry I contributed to it.
Never forget Game 5 bisu vs stork arbiter dark archon PvP.
On September 11 2013 02:23 Xiphos wrote: MBCGame disbanded probably because of the lawsuit. Blizzard specifically targeted the channel for infringement. And Blizzard hired excellent lawyers to go against them. At that time, KPop was rampantly growing in Korea. So it was the perfect compound that decided the fate of the game channel.
MBC the company said that match fixing was a big reason they decided to abandon gaming.
On September 11 2013 03:08 traceurling wrote: Personally I think what would've been best is trying to run a SC2 league and an independent BW league, this way fans, sponsors, and players could pick what they wanted to support...I know it might not be possible tho cuz of splitting popularity and sponsors might not be ideal...hmm...
It's basically what we have now, SSL vs GSL.
On September 11 2013 03:11 Chef wrote: I wrote half a year and that was definitely inaccurate. But a month to not be running your business at all is still a long time imo (and it definitely felt like it for fans).
It was shorter than the gap between 2009 and 2010's proleagues
Even though I wrote "finally" in the first page of this thread I feel I have to write something a bit longer atleast.
I was never a big Bisu fan myself, but he's really one of the only Starcraft players that I can watch play one matchup in total awe. His brilliance in PvZ has been beaten to death in words already but once again he really was astounding at it.
I too hope he'll play in SOSPA events but mostly I just want him to have a good future too with whatever he decides to do, it must be a hard transisition for anyone when you've been playing a game for a really long time without an education to fall back on.
On September 10 2013 18:33 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 10 2013 17:47 Elroi wrote:
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
edit: the fault also lies partly in kespa's terrible management policies for BW and the kespa-blizzard legal spat.
Probably the best explenation i have read so far after the shitty game people call SC2 came out. Well said!
I was just curious, do you guys think Bisu would have had a good chance of winning Starleagues in 2010-2013 if it were not for Blizzard and the Matchfixing scandal reducing the number of starleagues from basically 3 to 1 (ignoring how MBCGame would hold up if everything went smoothly).?
On September 11 2013 05:27 thezanursic wrote: I was just curious, do you guys think Bisu would have had a good chance of winning Starleagues in 2010-2013 if it were not for Blizzard and the Matchfixing scandal reducing the number of starleagues from basically 3 to 1 (ignoring how MBCGame would hold up if everything went smoothly).?
On September 11 2013 05:27 thezanursic wrote: I was just curious, do you guys think Bisu would have had a good chance of winning Starleagues in 2010-2013 if it were not for Blizzard and the Matchfixing scandal reducing the number of starleagues from basically 3 to 1 (ignoring how MBCGame would hold up if everything went smoothly).?
On September 11 2013 05:27 thezanursic wrote: I was just curious, do you guys think Bisu would have had a good chance of winning Starleagues in 2010-2013 if it were not for Blizzard and the Matchfixing scandal reducing the number of starleagues from basically 3 to 1 (ignoring how MBCGame would hold up if everything went smoothly).?
Wins an MSL, GOMTV Invitational, WCG Korea and get's Ro4 in Batoo OSL.
96 wins - 37 losses (72.18%)
2010
58 wins - 35 losses (62.37%)
2011
58 wins - 20 losses (74.36%)
2012
16 wins - 6 losses (72.73%)
Overall win-rates doesn't mirror Bisu's chances in individual leagues that well because he was a player that was highly dependent on surrounding circumstances. Things such as the map pool used, brackets, and his schedule demands at the time. Of course, all players were influenced by these things, but for Bisu, it was a notch more visible in my opinion.
While Bisu was never the complete player that so many people wanted him to be, he had elements in his gaming that was almost supernatural in some aspects. One of the most amazing multi-taskers in the game, some of the cleanest, most well refined mechanics that could be witnessed in FPVODs, as well as being able to absorb various styles of other protoss players in his teams and being able to expand on that due to his almost perfect hardware for the game itself.
It was the case when he took in the best of Pusan, and got renowned for his flawless macromanagement. Something which even Flash was taken aback by, and stood in awe as he tried to understand how Bisu could produce non-stop from his gates without skipping a single beat. He never had the full mastery of protoss units like Stork did, but at the same time, had taken several things to the next level such as his probe scouting micromanagement, and corsair micromanagement.
All in all, one of the most brilliant geniuses of the game, and one that will be fondly remembered for due to his meteoric rise to success, epic performances when things clicked, and the dramatic nature of his career. I still don't know how an earth he managed to stop that push from Flash (I swear to god Bisu set things on slow motion), and although I spent so much time arguing against his die-hard fans, and sneered at girls who just oggled at Bisu without even knowing which race he was playing, there's no denying that he was a treasure for the scene, both as a professional gamer, and an icon for the e-Sports scene in general. I never bothered to follow him in his pursuits in Starcraft 2, and from what I've heard, he hasn't done that well, but it's something he cannot be judged on, and his legacy doesn't get tainted in any shape or form in my opinion. It's something he tried out after switching his career as an elite gamer in the most competitive gaming scene the world has ever seen, and there were obviously huge motivational issues. It's really sad to see him retire, especially when you know deep inside that had the scene stayed alive, he still would have been entertaining us with his magic. It's been a great ride nonetheless.
On September 11 2013 05:27 thezanursic wrote: I was just curious, do you guys think Bisu would have had a good chance of winning Starleagues in 2010-2013 if it were not for Blizzard and the Matchfixing scandal reducing the number of starleagues from basically 3 to 1 (ignoring how MBCGame would hold up if everything went smoothly).?
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
The what, now? As I recall it
1. It gets out that Savior and like half the BW scene are all fixing matches for the Korean mafia.
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
lol wat, u must be new. BW didn't die of natural causes, it was taken down by Blizzard with the forced transition to SC2.
The what, now? As I recall it
3. KeSPA continues playing BW for a while, but interest is clearly down from the 2007 highs. The foreign BW scene becomes totally insufferably whiny.
BW popularity in Korea was never down from 2007, and if anything continued to be just as strong, even in its final year. The issue was with the sponsors. Typically it goes like this: people interested = money, but the match-fixing scandal, the KeSPA-Blizzard quarrel, and SC2's foreign popularity caused the sponsors to become increasingly more apprehensive towards BW. To the point where there were no more sponsors available at all. They simply felt there was more money to be had in a new shiny product. But that doesn't change the fact that viewership and popularity for BW was as high and solid as it ever was.
BW popularity in Korea was never down from 2007, and if anything continued to be just as strong, even in its final year. The issue was with the sponsors. Typically it goes like this: people interested = money, but the match-fixing scandal, the KeSPA-Blizzard quarrel, and SC2's foreign popularity caused the sponsors to become increasingly more apprehensive towards BW. To the point where there were no more sponsors available at all. They simply felt there was more money to be had in a new shiny product. But that doesn't change the fact that viewership and popularity for BW was as high and solid as it ever was.
Wow. I've been following BW since 2011 and I've always assumed that the whole "2007 was the peak of BW popularity" narrative was true. Thanks very much for linking those articles sir.
BTW is there an archive somewhere of all the optical shot translations? These were awesome.
The good times when Fomos had the money to pay for my services </3
Yeah 2011 opened with a bang. People were so eager to watch, especially after all the rumours of it going down and delayed and stuff. Despite the "decline", 2007-2011 BW was still the undisputed #1 eSports in Korea.
I'd have to say that with regards to Bisu potentially winning an SL between 2010 and 2013 had there been 3 SLs (OSL and MSL) each that he would probably still be hit with the OSL curse. He has NEVER EVER had any success in the preliminaries, and his play-style is most vulnerable to early game all-in tactics, simply because his style is so aggressive i.e. he cuts so many corners that there are easily explotiable timings. On the other hand, given how Z-dominant MSLs typically are, I'd argue that he would probably have gotten to an SL final with a favorable bracket. The top tier of Zs were too intimidated by his play-style, even in Proleague, and he would probably get the treatment Fantasy got for his OSL runs if he goes in deep. I honestly think we'd have seen Fantasy win an MSL by going through him in the final elimination brackets had we gotten to that point.
I honestly would go nuts if I had seen a Bisu vs Fantasy best of 5, simply because of the mind-games, even if I know it's likely to be a 3-0 Fanta stomp given his exhibited prowess in vP; and it's also likely that Fanta would have won over Jangbi once in the 2 SLs in that same vein.
Bisu was looking good in that aborted MSL. I personally felt that he was in prime condition, and that his form at that time was at the top of the scene (not necessarily no. 1 of course). Too bad it was cut short.
OSL? Lost cause.
On an additional note, it's nice to see most of the BW forum vets (who've basically disappeared from TL altogether or gone over to Dota 2) post. Such a warm and fuzzy feeling being "around" people who love BW as much as you do.
I would put Bisu's chances of winning a SL at about the same odds as Zero's chances, assuming he starts in the group stages and doesn't have to go through qualifiers. In series play he would be a favorite over most players except for Flash, Fantasy, and strong PvP'ers such as Stork, Horang2, Stats and maybe a hot Jangbi. He's a strong favorite over all the zergs in macro games including Jaedong but of course any zerg can take out any protoss with a couple of good hydra busts. His main problem would be getting by Flash. Simply put, if no one takes out Flash for him, Bisu is not winning a SL. Even that PL grand finals win was a fluke. Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote: I would put Bisu's chances of winning a SL at about the same odds as Zero's chances, assuming he starts in the group stages and doesn't have to go through qualifiers. In series play he would be a favorite over most players except for Flash, Fantasy, and strong PvP'ers such as Stork, Horang2, Stats and maybe a hot Jangbi. He's a strong favorite over all the zergs in macro games including Jaedong but of course any zerg can take out any protoss with a couple of good hydra busts. His main problem would be getting by Flash. Simply put, if no one takes out Flash for him, Bisu is not winning a SL. Even that PL grand finals win was a fluke. Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Not really. Bisu had Jaedong's number in specific maps that he made his home ground, whereas Jaedong's main maps during the ProLeague season wasn't those map pools. There's a reason why SK Telecom T1 had an astonishing advantage over other teams due to having two superb players that could efficiently divide the map pool. In standard games, on standard maps that both players were completely familiar with, Jaedong would have been the favourite (there are plenty of anecdotes to prove this theory). There's a reason why Bisu kept failing against zergs in individual leagues, as great as he was in the match-up, he was suspect to failure on maps that he didn't make into his own.
Bisu's main problem was not just Flash, there's a reason why he failed to make any impact in so many of the individual leagues he entered. His success was dependent on so many different variables that the stars aligning for him to shine through didn't come regularly enough.
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
On September 11 2013 11:05 Ciryandor wrote: I honestly would go nuts if I had seen a Bisu vs Fantasy best of 5, simply because of the mind-games, even if I know it's likely to be a 3-0 Fanta stomp given his exhibited prowess in vP; and it's also likely that Fanta would have won over Jangbi once in the 2 SLs in that same vein.
Well they did play a bo5, did they not? In Fantasy's second OSL silver run. Fantasy was sort of the king of teamkills though, I recall how he kept getting paired with his zerg team mates and kept demolishing them.
On a side note, it'd have been interesting to see Fanta vs Best too. I think Fantasy complained in some interview that he lost a lot in practice against his P team mates. And for some reason I feel Best would have been a bigger threat than Bisu.
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
Poor Zero was demolished by Flash everytime that I can remember ^^.
So the bisu rumour was true....what about Hydra? No news?
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
Poor Zero was demolished by Flash everytime that I can remember ^^.
So the bisu rumour was true....what about Hydra? No news?
Edit: Ah, you mean series. Still, watch this game.
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
Poor Zero was demolished by Flash everytime that I can remember ^^.
So the bisu rumour was true....what about Hydra? No news?
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
Poor Zero was demolished by Flash everytime that I can remember ^^.
So the bisu rumour was true....what about Hydra? No news?
Edit: Ah, you mean series. Still, watch this game.
Although I usually forget Flash's losses as if they never happened :p yes I was referring to series and not exactly single games.
Zero is a great player and he obviously produced great games and even wins against God.
He was the first player to beat Flash's TvZ mech, from what I remember. (Not bio in to mech, just mech). It looked like Flash was going to win. He just kept taking more bases. Zero did, too, but you know how it is vs mech. Nothing happened the entire game, they both just expanded, and it looked like Zero was going to throw insane amounts of ultralisks and hydralisks in to tank lines and do no damage.
So Flash was sitting on like 5 bases, taking his 5th, and all of a sudden like 24 queens come in and use spawn broodling on everything. Two waves of units later, Flash is dead. Lol.
On September 11 2013 11:05 Ciryandor wrote: I honestly would go nuts if I had seen a Bisu vs Fantasy best of 5, simply because of the mind-games, even if I know it's likely to be a 3-0 Fanta stomp given his exhibited prowess in vP; and it's also likely that Fanta would have won over Jangbi once in the 2 SLs in that same vein.
Well they did play a bo5, did they not? In Fantasy's second OSL silver run. Fantasy was sort of the king of teamkills though, I recall how he kept getting paired with his zerg team mates and kept demolishing them.
On a side note, it'd have been interesting to see Fanta vs Best too. I think Fantasy complained in some interview that he lost a lot in practice against his P team mates. And for some reason I feel Best would have been a bigger threat than Bisu.
You're thinking Hyuk. Hyuking Starleagues up was one of his specialties.
On September 11 2013 11:05 Ciryandor wrote: I honestly would go nuts if I had seen a Bisu vs Fantasy best of 5, simply because of the mind-games, even if I know it's likely to be a 3-0 Fanta stomp given his exhibited prowess in vP; and it's also likely that Fanta would have won over Jangbi once in the 2 SLs in that same vein.
Well they did play a bo5, did they not? In Fantasy's second OSL silver run. Fantasy was sort of the king of teamkills though, I recall how he kept getting paired with his zerg team mates and kept demolishing them.
On a side note, it'd have been interesting to see Fanta vs Best too. I think Fantasy complained in some interview that he lost a lot in practice against his P team mates. And for some reason I feel Best would have been a bigger threat than Bisu.
You're thinking Hyuk. Hyuking Starleagues up was one of his specialties.
Never forget the STX cup all kill - the tournament that changed the meaning of the term "Hyuking". To Hyuk became something good after that event.
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
Poor Zero was demolished by Flash everytime that I can remember ^^.
So the bisu rumour was true....what about Hydra? No news?
Edit: Ah, you mean series. Still, watch this game.
Although I usually forget Flash's losses as if they never happened :p yes I was referring to series and not exactly single games.
Zero is a great player and he obviously produced great games and even wins against God.
He was the first player to beat Flash's TvZ mech, from what I remember. (Not bio in to mech, just mech). It looked like Flash was going to win. He just kept taking more bases. Zero did, too, but you know how it is vs mech. Nothing happened the entire game, they both just expanded, and it looked like Zero was going to throw insane amounts of ultralisks and hydralisks in to tank lines and do no damage.
So Flash was sitting on like 5 bases, taking his 5th, and all of a sudden like 24 queens come in and use spawn broodling on everything. Two waves of units later, Flash is dead. Lol.
On September 11 2013 12:32 pylonsalad wrote:Of all the big name potential champions at the time (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Zero, Fantasy, Jangbi) I would say Bisu has the least chance of beating Flash in a series.
Eh, I think he had (has? I'm confused about the present tense here) a better chance than Zero did...
Poor Zero was demolished by Flash everytime that I can remember ^^.
So the bisu rumour was true....what about Hydra? No news?
Edit: Ah, you mean series. Still, watch this game.
Although I usually forget Flash's losses as if they never happened :p yes I was referring to series and not exactly single games.
Zero is a great player and he obviously produced great games and even wins against God.
He was the first player to beat Flash's TvZ mech, from what I remember. (Not bio in to mech, just mech). It looked like Flash was going to win. He just kept taking more bases. Zero did, too, but you know how it is vs mech. Nothing happened the entire game, they both just expanded, and it looked like Zero was going to throw insane amounts of ultralisks and hydralisks in to tank lines and do no damage.
So Flash was sitting on like 5 bases, taking his 5th, and all of a sudden like 24 queens come in and use spawn broodling on everything. Two waves of units later, Flash is dead. Lol.
Do you have the vod for this? Sounds good.
It was the game that was posted. Apparently it didn't happen quite like I remembered it. Sorry. + Show Spoiler +
Honestly, eventho I am not big sc2 fan I really wanted Bisu, Jangbi and Stork to do good and bring revolution on sc2 protoss race since I believe in them but seeing the dragons retire one by one makes me a bit sad but ofc them coming back in BW also the coolest thing ever coz when I saw Jangbi stream bw he looks really really happy on what he is doing.
On September 11 2013 11:05 Ciryandor wrote: I honestly would go nuts if I had seen a Bisu vs Fantasy best of 5, simply because of the mind-games, even if I know it's likely to be a 3-0 Fanta stomp given his exhibited prowess in vP; and it's also likely that Fanta would have won over Jangbi once in the 2 SLs in that same vein.
Well they did play a bo5, did they not? In Fantasy's second OSL silver run. Fantasy was sort of the king of teamkills though, I recall how he kept getting paired with his zerg team mates and kept demolishing them.
On a side note, it'd have been interesting to see Fanta vs Best too. I think Fantasy complained in some interview that he lost a lot in practice against his P team mates. And for some reason I feel Best would have been a bigger threat than Bisu.
You're thinking Hyuk. Hyuking Starleagues up was one of his specialties.
Never forget the STX cup all kill - the tournament that changed the meaning of the term "Hyuking". To Hyuk became something good after that event.
He had some sort of stupid 8 game ZvZ win streak against the best zerg players of the time too.
Hyuk: 40% chance of win in any match regardless of relative skill difference.
On September 11 2013 11:05 Ciryandor wrote: I honestly would go nuts if I had seen a Bisu vs Fantasy best of 5, simply because of the mind-games, even if I know it's likely to be a 3-0 Fanta stomp given his exhibited prowess in vP; and it's also likely that Fanta would have won over Jangbi once in the 2 SLs in that same vein.
Well they did play a bo5, did they not? In Fantasy's second OSL silver run. Fantasy was sort of the king of teamkills though, I recall how he kept getting paired with his zerg team mates and kept demolishing them.
On a side note, it'd have been interesting to see Fanta vs Best too. I think Fantasy complained in some interview that he lost a lot in practice against his P team mates. And for some reason I feel Best would have been a bigger threat than Bisu.
You're thinking Hyuk. Hyuking Starleagues up was one of his specialties.
Never forget the STX cup all kill - the tournament that changed the meaning of the term "Hyuking". To Hyuk became something good after that event.
He had some sort of stupid 8 game ZvZ win streak against the best zerg players of the time too.
Hyuk: 40% chance of win in any match regardless of relative skill difference.
YUUUUUP.
Granted this is more Flash's failure than anything but credit where credit is due
I'm sure he's playing, maybe not streaming yet or maybe won't stream entirely. This doesn't mean we won't see some of the ex pros playing vs some mysterious gosu Protoss
On September 12 2013 22:01 Boonbag wrote: seems like jangbi and great are moving in together in seoul
ssl?
both are confirmed for SOSPA and Sonic has been recently announcing some sponsors for ssl9, so it looks likely. it's cool they're getting together like this ^^
On September 12 2013 20:58 EndingLife wrote: I'm sure he's playing, maybe not streaming yet or maybe won't stream entirely. This doesn't mean we won't see some of the ex pros playing vs some mysterious gosu Protoss
Reminds me of the time that Flash played Bisu (I think) while both were smurfing and Bisu tried out a strange strategy for an upcoming game against Flash...
On September 13 2013 06:27 N.geNuity wrote: that was baby on match point. he did a marine rush and bisu said he saw the strategy the previous night on the ladder
edit: oh wait totally misread that, that could be the case.
what's funnier is the baby story though.
edit2: like wtf these interviews disappeared into fucking the void. february 2010 mst group 7 interview is where it would be.
haha so funny. Imagine being Bisu, playing the game then realizing that the strat you are facing is one you just played against the night before. He must've connected the dots after that XD
Edit : I think out of old skool terrans Nada is best due to his surviving skills, when boxer can't win anymore he blame it on bw having replays hamper creativity. Actually it needs an even higher degree of creativity/understanding to break. Boxer is more like a starter in business, good in startups but not follow through.
On September 10 2013 18:33 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 10 2013 17:47 Elroi wrote:
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
edit: the fault also lies partly in kespa's terrible management policies for BW and the kespa-blizzard legal spat.
have to say korea overly respect US. Once US implement something, korea will follow so as not to spoil relationship. Its the same for Kespa-blizzard saga.
On September 10 2013 18:33 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 10 2013 17:47 Elroi wrote:
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
edit: the fault also lies partly in kespa's terrible management policies for BW and the kespa-blizzard legal spat.
have to say korea overly respect US. Once US implement something, korea will follow so as not to spoil relationship. Its the same for Kespa-blizzard saga.
Pretty sure white horse isn't talking about diplomatic relationship here......
On September 10 2013 18:33 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 10 2013 17:47 Elroi wrote:
An insider from SKT1 confirmed that "the steep decline in the number of fans had a negative effect on the motivation of players, including Bisu." He added that "regrettably, at the current state, it will become even harder for the players who still remember the glorious past to continue their progaming careers."
oh man...
On September 10 2013 16:59 LegalLord wrote: The death of BW killed esports. It proved that a game couldn't be played professionally for an extended period of time after the profit motive for playing the game wanes.
Who will stick by SC2 or even LoL when times get tough? No one, given that BW didn't last.
This is a good point.
I see it more as esports being kinda an Icarus story, where it was too ambitious, and flew too close to the sun.
The big, infrastructured esports started with BW, but even then it was in somewhat of a decline. They then cannibalised that infrastructure to try and have it catch on outside Korea. But the level of interest simply doesn't exist outside of Korea yet, it might not even have existed in Korea at the level that they wanted it.
Instead of letting a game/scene develop it's fanbase/infrastructure organically, to an extent that is sustainable, they tried to fast-track it by using the fresh corpse of the professional BW scene as a launching pad, and forcing it to their ideal of what it should be, unsurprisingly it wasn't sustainable. Now we are just witnessing the melting of those waxy wings.
These are good points.
Everything starts with the game itself. If you want to start at square 1, it's the game. The game has to be good. It has to be fun for the players while at the same time enjoyable to watch from a spectator perspective. The game has to be challenging enough to draw out the best players from the average. SC2 has absolutely none of these characteristics. It's blizzard's and all the western players' - butt-hurt from getting smacked by Koreans in BW - fault for, as mentioned above, pushing a poor game to create an artificial climate for "professional" competition because they wanted what the Koreans had without working for it.
edit: the fault also lies partly in kespa's terrible management policies for BW and the kespa-blizzard legal spat.
have to say korea overly respect US. Once US implement something, korea will follow so as not to spoil relationship. Its the same for Kespa-blizzard saga.
Pretty sure white horse isn't talking about diplomatic relationship here......
On September 16 2013 16:08 Carefree wrote: Any news on whether he will be streaming or not?
Rumour has it that he has bought a mic, webcam and created an afreeca account. No timeframe but his afreeca already has 426 followers without having streamed yet heh.
SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요 ^^^^^
Bad english translation machine translated ....
SKT has the player win seats contact from now on will be released one by one, players grab bag contact treasure please look forward ^^ ^^ ^ (Translated by Bing)
Looks like more skt players are getting release from their contract ?
SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Yeah, when all these new retirees say they want to "take a year off before joining the military", it's usually code for "I'm probably gonna stream BW on Afreeca".
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
never mind I'm gonna let this go.
Whew, we survive the wrath of Blind-Rawr for another day
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
never mind I'm gonna let this go.
This is a Bisu thread. Expect Flash hate.
huehuehue
last I checked you didn't give a shit about Bisu, you are the underdong man, bisu ain't no underdog, hes a primo cheese, like Limburger.
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
never mind I'm gonna let this go.
This is a Bisu thread. Expect Flash hate.
huehuehue
last I checked you didn't give a shit about Bisu, you are the underdong man, bisu ain't no underdog, hes a primo cheese, like Limburger.
compared to flash, bisu is scrub .. underdog material .. remember this game??
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
On September 16 2013 16:49 snipealot wrote: SKT 이승석 선수 섭외하였습니다 이제부터 보물 보따리 섭외 선수들 한명씩 풀어드리겠습니다 기대해주세요
Interpretation with my take on things in parenthesis: Sonic has liased with S2 (expect S2 to join sospa) From now on he will announce great players one by one (he uses the term "bundle of treasure" to speak of these so far un-announced players so I suspect they are old kespa pros) Look forward to it! (sonic telling us to look forward to these announcements in order to build some hype I suspect)
That's a whole lot better than machine translation .. thanks for the translation Snipealot . So I am expecting Bisu,S2 and more bw pros to come back... happy days are coming ^^.
I'll be truly happy when stats/hoejja transitions to sospa
Bring back mafia too I miss him already.
How about the Ultimate Weapon himself?
Let that piece of Imbatrash rot in SC2 .. he'll ruin BW again!~ omg!
never mind I'm gonna let this go.
This is a Bisu thread. Expect Flash hate.
huehuehue
last I checked you didn't give a shit about Bisu, you are the underdong man, bisu ain't no underdog, hes a primo cheese, like Limburger.
compared to flash, bisu is scrub .. underdog material .. remember this game??
On September 16 2013 23:20 Talin wrote: I remember a different game.
It ended in tears.
one of those 10 OSL quali? lol joking
Nope They are referring to the last Skt v KT showdown where Bisu and Flash was send out and it didn't turn out well for flash because the map coincidentally favors the other race .
On September 16 2013 23:20 Talin wrote: I remember a different game.
It ended in tears.
one of those 10 OSL quali? lol joking
Nope They are referring to the last Skt v KT showdown where Bisu and Flash was send out and it didn't turn out well for flash because the map coincidentally favors the other race .
On September 16 2013 23:20 Talin wrote: I remember a different game.
It ended in tears.
one of those 10 OSL quali? lol joking
Nope They are referring to the last Skt v KT showdown where Bisu and Flash was send out and it didn't turn out well for flash because the map coincidentally favors the other race .
To be fair, the map wasn't coincidence. Cheese Reaction was chosen by SKT.
On September 17 2013 04:52 Dodgin wrote: flash shouldn't have lost to Fantasy in the second set if he wanted to avoid cheese reaction, noob got outplayed by the terrorist.
On September 16 2013 23:20 Talin wrote: I remember a different game.
It ended in tears.
one of those 10 OSL quali? lol joking
Nope They are referring to the last Skt v KT showdown where Bisu and Flash was send out and it didn't turn out well for flash because the map coincidentally favors the other race .
To be fair, the map wasn't coincidence. Cheese Reaction was chosen by SKT.
And KT chose to send Flash aware of the map situation. Stats had a great chance of winning given the PvP record of Bisu the last two years. But if Stats lost it'd look like SKT did when they sent BeSt to the slaughter the year before.
On September 17 2013 06:51 Xiphos wrote: People needs to stop bumping this.
Everytime some1 post in this thread, I expect a link saying that Bisu is starting to stream and I get excited only to be pissed of by fanboy battles.
you just bumped it
I'm sure someone will post a new Bisu is streaming thread when he streams due to excitement lol.
Absolutely concur. Won't expect Bisu to stream regardless of how much this thread is being bumped.
exactly. Maybe he already streamed a bit in some alt account but we don't know about it. This thread being bumped doesn't correlate with Bisu streaming lol.