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radley
Poland577 Posts
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Incomplete..ReV
Norway598 Posts
On April 22 2018 03:41 radley wrote: I woould then politely suggest you to do what you already proposed to do and leave this event to someone others hand. Oh, stop with the childish nonesense. If you have anything to add to the topic, then give feedback on the league itself. However, this "suggestion" is nothing but a condescending personal attack and has nothing to do in a constructive discussion. Walk overs are unfair no matter how you twist or turn about it. There is no good system for it, because walk overs will cause the actual standings to not be representative regardless. 3 points for the CW sounds fair, as far as shitty situations goes. Regarding your point about lower teams losing motivation and (whether intentionally or not) sabotaging the end result, I dare say rather safely that as the teams have been doing recently, then it won't happen here. Take BuLL) - they had given a ton of walk overs, but still kept showing up more and more as the season progressed. dM- was on the verge of being removed, but also got back and did well. My clan ended up at the very bottom of the league (only a disbanded team being below us), and still it didn't do anything to our motivation. If teams prove to be of such poor character that they simply don't show up when they see they can't win, then quite frankly those teams should be permantently removed - players included (with the exception of individuals that clearly try to do their part). However, in my experience there are no teams that run the risk of doing anything of the sort. Disband, maybe, but not stop showing up for the last half of the season, just to try again the next one. We can't make a system that covers all eventualities. The system in place is fine. And if it's not ideal, it is at the very least not so bad that the Head Admin should reconsider whether he is to stay or not. Yes, it's not the ideal phrase to resort to (i.e. "deal with it or I leave"), as it's more likely to escalate than defuse a conflict, but even so this final post of yours honestly has nothing constructive to contribute with. | ||
dM-White
Chile338 Posts
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radley
Poland577 Posts
And about v.o points cause I give two situations: a) Accepted by you - winning team by v.o. gets 3 points, which was even lower than winning 3-2, and they had't any opportunity to win 5-0 and get 6 points, which is double. b) Accepted by me and apparently by any other team league organisers - v.o is treated like normal 5-0 win (if 4 players were on the channel ready to play) and they get full points for that match, because they had opportunity to win 5-0 even if opposite team showed up. You see, in both cases team could win in fair fight 5-0, but in first case its punished for other team being lazy to show up, which is DEFINITELY more unfair then getting max points for match against even stronger team, which team was fault to not show up. If you don't get it, I have no more to discus with you regarding this case. Oh, and btw. case regarding event organisers in my opinion is the most important thing to discuss, because the way league goes depends heavily on them and decisions they make. So after seeing the way how Face gives answers and how he treated my discusion as personal attacks towards him, make me feel like he is not the person on right position. To be clear - our two teams will join BWCL in the spirit of fair play, regardless of decisions made here and who ever will be organising it. I just hope it will be well maintained and avoid conflicts in the middle of league. | ||
BlaCkSnoW98
4 Posts
Leader: [SK]619, [SK]BlaCkSnoW, [SK]LasT SK-A [SK]LasT [SK]TerrOr [SK]Bonyth [SK]Dewalt [SK]Jabroni [SK]Magician [SK]Quantel [SK]Cute [SK]Seok SK-B [SK]Maxtor [SK]Carlires [SK]Bush4Hide [SK]BlaCkSnoW [SK]Tim [SK]Rich [SK]BigPaPa [sk]Haven [SK]Talent [SK]OldManSlum [SK]Rain [SK]AweAwe | ||
Thafex
Korea (South)1 Post
Leader: 29)Penguin, 29)Thafex Players: 29)DaeJang 29)shy 29)Shield 29)34-40-34 29)Penguin 29)Duck 29)JJ2. 29)BaDaK 29)JaPPhaGo 29)zuzak3 29)cute 29)HoRangE | ||
Incomplete..ReV
Norway598 Posts
On April 22 2018 20:18 radley wrote: To Incomplete.Rev, I made my statement already, but Face made everything to defend iccup system claiming it had during recent team events no problems, which is false. Other people may have weak memory or this topic was visited by too low number of people actively participating in team events, organised using their system. But I do have good memory so I wanted to make it clear. I don't have experience with it myself, so I'll just have to take both person's word for it and see it for myself. However, seeing as I have to reset my password every time I want to log on, I do hold a button on you remembering correctly. Nevertheless, I'm open for it all to be fine in the end, so I'm looking forward to testing it on iCCup And about v.o points cause I give two situations: a) Accepted by you - winning team by v.o. gets 3 points, which was even lower than winning 3-2, and they had't any opportunity to win 5-0 and get 6 points, which is double. b) Accepted by me and apparently by any other team league organisers - v.o is treated like normal 5-0 win (if 4 players were on the channel ready to play) and they get full points for that match, because they had opportunity to win 5-0 even if opposite team showed up. You see, in both cases team could win in fair fight 5-0, but in first case its punished for other team being lazy to show up, which is DEFINITELY more unfair then getting max points for match against even stronger team, which team was fault to not show up. If you don't get it, I have no more to discus with you regarding this case. I don't agree that getting 6 points for a walk over is the ideal solution. Even though I get your point that seeing as a team has enough players online to potentially get those 6 points, it's not a realistic system. We could just as well say that it should only be 1 point for a walk over, since many weak teams would probably lose anyway, so they should be happy just for getting a win at all, if for instance they get a walk over against a stronger team. 3 points is, in my opinion, an average point which will contribute to a more realistic standing on the tables, than getting 6 (or 1, for that matter) would. I think that system will be more fair in the long run regarding realistic results, whereas getting 6 points has more to do with moral than fair results. Oh, and btw. case regarding event organisers in my opinion is the most important thing to discuss, because the way league goes depends heavily on them and decisions they make. So after seeing the way how Face gives answers and how he treated my discusion as personal attacks towards him, make me feel like he is not the person on right position. Yes, I agree that how admins handle cases is important. I also think that Face hasn't shown ideal diplomacy in the most recent posts. However, through being a Content Admin previous season I have seen how much good work he does and I have complete faith in his good intentions. If we have admins who're rough around the edges or we think respond poorly to our feedback, then I think it's up to us to elaborate that we don't mean harm and just want to see things run smoothly. I don't think suggesting someone leave their position, or encouraging them to leave if they themselves suggest it, leads to anything productive. You've shown how you have well thought opinions and that you can elaborate on it all in a very good way. I think it'd be a waste if we let ourselves go too far into conflict, rather than searching for an outcome that can make us all happy. To be clear - our two teams will join BWCL in the spirit of fair play, regardless of decisions made here and who ever will be organising it. I just hope it will be well maintained and avoid conflicts in the middle of league. I'll be looking forward to playing and likely losing to you guys :D | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
I want to highlight that it was his idea to give the players a topic to discuss changes and to vote on them. Gecko and I didn't do that last season, it was Face idea. And I think as long as we stay constructive, it's working out quite well. It's unnecessary I think, to insult each other by suggesting to retire as player or admin, that was clearly over the top. from the amount of effort that face put into this project, I am absolutely certain that this season will turn out good. Radley already said, his team will play in the spirit of fair play. So i hope we can settle this argument. Nothing is set in stone yet, we are here to discuss the format with you players. That said, the majority here seems to support the switch to iccup grids. Let us see how it works out first, i suggest. | ||
FyRe_DragOn
Canada2048 Posts
leader - DragOn[NaS] players DragOn[NaS] SuGo[NaS] Battousai[NaS] Beast[NaS] Kingdom[NaS] Zlifer[NaS] Jaewon[NaS] Demurity[NaS] TerrOr[NaS] | ||
dAiO
15 Posts
TEAM BuLL) Leader - BuLL)Fio Co-Leader - BuLL)dAiO Players: BuLL)Raynor BuLL)Dark BuLL)dAiO BuLL)Empute BuLL)Eros_craft BuLL)Alartek BuLL)FlyMio BuLL)Skydrol BuLL)Wilian BuLL)PochoTerran | ||
iCCup.Face
Italy447 Posts
There is an irregularity with a players registered, I'd like to be contacted by the leaders to solve the problem: Contacts: TeamLiquid, ICCUP, Skype: iCCup.Face Discord: Roia#6722 email: iccup.face@gmail.com | ||
GeckoXp
Germany2013 Posts
On April 22 2018 20:18 radley wrote: To Incomplete.Rev, I made my statement already, but Face made everything to defend iccup system claiming it had during recent team events no problems, which is false. Other people may have weak memory or this topic was visited by too low number of people actively participating in team events, organised using their system. But I do have good memory so I wanted to make it clear. The relevant argument being: In comparison to the potential alternatives ICCup's system is the best for several reasons: - you can handle line ups and admins don't have to invest a ton of time to manually update a list - you can immediately check for potential smurfs and the cool-down for new drafts is automatically calculated - the grids are done automatically, fair and in secret, so that's another thing out of the way - the full results are stored with a minimal effort for players and admins, as well as replays Yeah sure, ICCup is a bug infested page, but since you made the point already: we know the bugs and we know how to solve situations. Even if you encounter them as user, the admins will know what to do without researching a ton and have a mild chance to get the devs to fix a really urgent issue. And about v.o points cause I give two situations: a) Accepted by you - winning team by v.o. gets 3 points, which was even lower than winning 3-2, and they had't any opportunity to win 5-0 and get 6 points, which is double. b) Accepted by me and apparently by any other team league organisers - v.o is treated like normal 5-0 win (if 4 players were on the channel ready to play) and they get full points for that match, because they had opportunity to win 5-0 even if opposite team showed up. You're looking at it from the wrong angle. In the previous seasons and in basically every event walk overs are randomized. You are not getting disproportionally many walk overs, and no team ever misses the qualifications to the play offs due to having won too few sets in the walk overs either. And even if you end up on 5 out of 10 instead of 6 out of 10 - does it really matter that much to you? Anyway, it has been tradition in the leagues that face and myself hosted in the past: before the play-offs were announced, we at least had a look at the qualified teams and tried to figure if they were there after facing the same challenges other teams had (including walk overs). E.g. if a team qualified with six out of seven wins being from walk overs, they'd prolly go into a relegation match, or the other way round, if they had a lower set-score (3-2s vs 5-0s), because the team above had more walk overs, the same would happen. Oh, and btw. case regarding event organisers in my opinion is the most important thing to discuss, because the way league goes depends heavily on them and decisions they make. So after seeing the way how Face gives answers and how he treated my discusion as personal attacks towards him, make me feel like he is not the person on right position. It's never a benefitial thing to caculate the outcome of every would-be scenario and try to phrase that in solid words, especially when the teams reacted the way they did last season: everyone was fair and just wanted to play. rather focus on that. no team has been punished for showing up, but teams stressing over nothing ended up getting to see idiotic puns from my side the entire season, cause... we should be like grown up and stuff, therefore pointless discussions without a case in reality is waste of everyone's time. | ||
iRk-AGge
Sweden393 Posts
iRk lineups for Season#45 Leader: iRk-AgGe iRk-A iRk-arCNeON iRk-Cubic iRk-Favorit iRk-JerryK97 iRk-KameZerg iRk-MwK iRk-Naugrim iRk-OyA iRk-WhistleR 9 players iRk-B iRk-AgGe iRk-Aequitas iRk-aGOny iRk-Cackster iRk-elKador iRk-ErlinGho iRk-Forte iRk-Gurram iRk-Johan iRk-o_O iRk-Reggae iRk-zFlickan 12 players | ||
Incomplete..ReV
Norway598 Posts
Leader: Incomplete.ReV Admins: XzOz.ReV, GruGloG.ReV and Narsil.ReV Team members: Carebear.ReV Skabb.ReV jinzo.ReV SkRiK.ReV SamHyde.ReV non.ReV Bad.ReV NoNuts.ReV ViR.ReV Kettle.ReV Caspas.ReV InDi.ReV TSK.ReV iCCup team page: https://iccup.com/en/teams/139860.html | ||
iCCup.Face
Italy447 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On April 25 2018 03:47 iCCup.Face wrote: Teams registered can create their own Clan page at ICCUP, it's mandatory so must be done before to start the season. To select your players in the pre-grid the account must be listed in the clan page members. (If an error occurs creating page due to "tag already exists" dont worry, pick a random tag, Admins will fix it) + Show Spoiler + having problems to register your team on iccup? You are new to iccup as a player and don't know how to register? Feel free to contact me or any other Admin on the BWCL discord, we'll try to guide you through the process and provide troubleshooting if needed! | ||
abitStar1
4 Posts
clan leader mSj[Anxarat] Co-Leader mSj[Dreamer], mSj[abitStar] teg mSj team mSj[abitStar] mSj[Dreamer] mSj[Anxarat] mSj[Badirgy] mSj[mafia] mSj[smile] mSj[mr.Lir] mSj[hjkl] mSj[007] mSj[mr.Lir] mSj[Kezik] mSj[teddy_bear] mSj[hik] mSj[Necross] mSj)terran.exe mSj[Arraven] mSj[Darkysh] mSj[Clickmer] mSj[Bo6p] mSj[teffik] mSj[moro] | ||
Scoow1
1 Post
https://iccup.com/teams/41730.html clan leader FGs.Scoow Co-Leader FGs.Impiego teg FGs. team FGs.Scoow FGs.Impiego FGs.Meleagrr FGs.Kaban1 FGs.Lamozerg FGs.Noblesse FGs.Ironfist FGs.kernes FGs.Bumer_UA FGs.Van[Dex3] | ||
BlaCkSnoW98
4 Posts
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castleeMg
Canada744 Posts
iccup page: https://iccup.com/teams/139998.html organizer: iM-castle playerlist: iM-castle iM-schifter iM-zOwie iM-kimquex iM-Jiraiya iM-Zia iM-EndingLife iM-Ngo iM-LandOwner iM-Favian iM-Surfer | ||
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