[ASL6] Ro16 Group A
Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
Match-fixing accusations are taken very seriously on TL. Do NOT make any kind of match-fixing accusation unless you have proof. The "shady" things that a player did in-game does not count as proof. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
nvm found it Set 1/2: Neo Transistor Winners/Losers: Sylphid Final: Circuit Breaker | ||
TornadoSteve
775 Posts
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chongu
Malaysia2568 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1139 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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radadaundandan
Bulgaria3148 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
On September 18 2018 18:44 radadaundandan wrote: Ribuuuuu RIBUUUU RIBUUU RIBUUUUU !!!! Dream group for Rain !! | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
Rain 2:1 Sharp 2:1, I'll go with the popular vote here. And I'm happy that atleast one terran will advance. | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
On September 18 2018 18:59 Kaolla wrote: This will be such an easy group for Rain. Three terrans that are all... either way past their prime or just plain bad. Hope Mind somehow manages to make it through, but I fear Sharp will take him down. Sea is just lucky he got this far and he will most certainly be eliminated 0-2. My thoughts too , but my LB is Rain and Mind ^^ | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
I feel without insulting the other commentators, he's really the only one with real in-depth game-knowledge. But yea, I understand to get that you need to either have played countless of hours or do it now, which just isn't quite feasible I guess | ||
NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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Ikirouta
Finland725 Posts
Qikz or Vincent to Korea pls. EDIT: maybe CadenZie casting too or smth. | ||
NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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TornadoSteve
775 Posts
I would snap send my 4 first scvs to the same patch right away | ||
GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:20 TornadoSteve wrote: Song: take my hand - simple hand I would snap send my 4 first scvs to the same patch right away simple hand? | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:14 Ikirouta wrote: Can we get a 4th BW caster into korea so they don't have to bring this sc2 guy in? Qikz or Vincent to Korea pls. EDIT: maybe CadenZie casting too or smth. He's a pretty sharp guy, he needs to update on the BW mechanics and meta, but he could be a contender. My main critique was that he consistently fails to do so. Maybe it's hard - I guess it is - but when you get picked AND paid to do a job, you do your best to not do a lousy job. | ||
GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
GJ SHARP! | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
Cheesy Sharp | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2103 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:26 Motivate wrote: Cheesy Sharp Excuse me? | ||
Ikirouta
Finland725 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
Agree with Turbovolver ! just punish fast nexus , that's all | ||
Wonk
546 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:27 Ziggy wrote: hang on, has the map been changed again? I thought neo transistor had wider ramps at the nat / main I'm confused as well, it definitely got updated to have highground chokes whit wider ramps further away from the base but they must have reverted it. Kind of surprised Rain decided to do that but it definitely make this group more interesting. | ||
radadaundandan
Bulgaria3148 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
Sharp Cheddar | ||
nojok
France15836 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4063 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:32 nojok wrote: Just tuning in, what did sharp do? Rain went straight into Nexus, Sharp punished by pulling a ton of SCVs, ~4 marines and a vulture. Rain had a shield battery up and another on the way, but his dragoon got trapped on the ramp and taken out, and that was the game. | ||
nojok
France15836 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:33 Turbovolver wrote: Rain went straight into Nexus, Sharp punished by pulling a ton of SCVs, ~4 marines and a vulture. Rain had a shield battery up and another on the way, but his dragoon got trapped on the ramp and taken out, and that was the game. Thanks. | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
Both equal supply 76 Mind with 100 less apm ^^ | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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byj
491 Posts
Mind is blue ingame and on a red chair, Sea is red ingame and on a blue chair =\ | ||
Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:44 byj wrote: This is annoying: Mind is blue ingame and on a red chair, Sea is red ingame and on a blue chair =\ hahahaha | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
But Mind is countering and he kills a lot of scvs | ||
GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:44 byj wrote: This is annoying: Mind is blue ingame and on a red chair, Sea is red ingame and on a blue chair =\ This kills the game | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
Maybe Mind with a better vision And he also has a valk ^^ | ||
Zariel
Australia1275 Posts
Or maybe I'm feeling this way because i havent seen a good lengthy macro, tactical decision making game in a while | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:50 Zariel wrote: Finally. A decent TvT Or maybe I'm feeling this way because i havent seen a good lengthy macro, tactical decision making game in a while told u guys it will be a long , chess like game | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3954 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
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leublix
493 Posts
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radadaundandan
Bulgaria3148 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9223 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
On September 18 2018 19:56 leublix wrote: Is non-korean viewership dying or is everyone on yt? 1500 on youtube. | ||
Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
he has a pretty solid tvt | ||
prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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leublix
493 Posts
Makes more sense then, less than 200 looked strange. Was that Stats in the audience? | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4063 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:25 M2 wrote: This phase should bo3 imo, whats the point to exactly repeat the previous phase format and not even utilizing all 4 maps actually I agree, theres really no difference between Ro24 and Ro16 right now, would like it if Ro16 was Bo3 groups or Round robin groups | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:25 TaardadAiel wrote: Sharp had MUCH better positional sense, that sickle-cut maneuver in the bottom 1/3 of the center was so gratifying. He must've read Guderian's books. The moment he had a semi-solid position so as to close access to the third main and was not facing a dropship fleet, he had the game in his favor. Great job, he's an amazing TvT player. Imo it was mostly because of the map lay out. Sharp's third was easy to defend as the tanks on highground still provided some coverage of the centre of the map, then the 4th was further away in a rather hard spot ro acess for a group of vultures. Meanwhile sea's 3rd would have required dead units to defend it and his 4th and 5th bases were much harder to defend. | ||
oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:28 nojok wrote: Imo it was mostly because of the map lay out. Sharp's third was easy to defend as the tanks on highground still provided some coverage of the centre of the map, then the 4th was further away in a rather hard spot ro acess for a group of vultures. Meanwhile sea's 3rd would have required dead units to defend it and his 4th and 5th bases were much harder to defend. Are those 3rd bases really on highground? i thought that i read somewhere in another thread that it is some kind of fake-highground with no advantage?! | ||
nojok
France15836 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:34 oEkY wrote: Are those 3rd bases really on highground? i thought that i read somewhere in another thread that it is some kind of fake-highground with no advantage?! I don't know so you're probably right but the tanks at sharp's 3rd still defended the base while having a presence on the centre. | ||
GTR
51126 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:36 nojok wrote: I don't know so you're probably right but the tanks at sharp's 3rd still defended the base while having a presence on the centre. yeah, u are totally right, i was just wondering and would have liked a confirmation from someone who knows it exactly | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
Very scrappy game overall. | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:27 Timebon3s wrote: Ok now for the best game of the day!! This is gonna be a long ass PvT macro game ffs. Nice interview, Sharp seems like a cool dood YEAH BITCH! GG | ||
oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7028 Posts
gg | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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NewbOnTheFloor
Poland160 Posts
Rapidcasting <3 | ||
M2
Bulgaria4063 Posts
On September 18 2018 20:59 TaardadAiel wrote: That was a very entertaining game, if scrappy. And now I have to cheer for Sea! I also like sea, but its better for the tournament if rain advances | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Glioburd
France1900 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:01 M2 wrote: I also like sea, but its better for the tournament if rain advances I have to agree. Rain losing might turn the elimination phase into a ZvT fest, I'm a bit worried for Snow and Mini. But I'm a Terran player myself, so it's hard :D | ||
nojok
France15836 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3302 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3302 Posts
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NeoFlash
21 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3302 Posts
If this was SC2 then that ramp would've killed the protoss LOL | ||
nojok
France15836 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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GTR
51126 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3021 Posts
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3302 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
Very funny nerve wrecking style from rain ^^ | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3021 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:27 Timebon3s wrote: Hes throwing away units to keep terran at bay while expanding...seems like a good strat to me It's a good strat as long as you don't waste 100 supply to kill 10-20 supply | ||
NoS-Craig
Australia3077 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
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leublix
493 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
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nojok
France15836 Posts
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:33 BLinD-RawR wrote: what an odd game from rain, like everything seemed off, took him forever to get zealot speed, suicide attacks and that ridiculous offensive recall I think the whole point was to have inefficient trades behind a strong economy and starve Terran out while simultaneously never allowing a critical mass with upgrades to push out. Sea never got to push, really. Rain threw his whole army to whittle down the mech and kill the armories, then he threw himself on the 3rd, then the offensive recall, then he counterattacked the 6 o'clock at the only point in the game where Sea had a big mech ball. He even held him in the middle of the map. Interesting style, but REALLY ugly, lacks finesse. | ||
M2
Bulgaria4063 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:33 leublix wrote: I don't get that decision to counterattack. I think he had to do something offensive or he would've run out of resources, soon it would ve been 1 base vs 3-4 to rain, while rain was able to exchange units at pretty good ratio for PvT | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:36 TaardadAiel wrote: I think the whole point was to have inefficient trades behind a strong economy and starve Terran out while simultaneously never allowing a critical mass with upgrades to push out. Sea never got to push, really. Rain threw his whole army to whittle down the mech and kill the armories, then he threw himself on the 3rd, then the offensive recall, then he counterattacked the 6 o'clock at the only point in the game where Sea had a big mech ball. He even held him in the middle of the map. Interesting style, but REALLY ugly, lacks finesse. Exaxtly! Nice post. It might be ugly but its fun as hell to watch though. PvTs like these are so fun to watch and play | ||
Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9223 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48897 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:37 M2 wrote: I think he had to do something offensive or he would've run out of resources, soon it would ve been 1 base vs 3-4 to rain, while rain was able to exchange units at pretty good ratio for PvT it was a lose lose situation, when you see terran waiting for ups protoss should try to take map control and expand on as many bases as possible because if sea did commit to the push he would have lost a base or two easily but it wouldn't matter because rain had so many bases either started or already mining. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:45 BlackJack wrote: Absolutely love Rain's strategy. When you have unlimited economy vs Terran the way you lose isn't by losing your army, it's by losing your buildings/bases. The way Terran wants to kill you is by reaching a critical mass, destroying your entire army in one big fight, and then marching onto your bases before you can re-max. Rain did 2 things very well, 1) make sure he attacked any time he was maxed out and 2) make sure the fighting occurred as far away from his bases as possible. He can trade inefficiently all day as long as Terran doesn't kill his bases. This. And it seems the dealbreaker comes to army movement and scouting, makes the game very interesting. A terran can only defend some places, not everywhere, if they opt for a macro game that is, and not for some timed push. | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
Might as well focus your attention on that, and just send your units into sea and wear him down with all that shit you end up producing. | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:51 Timebon3s wrote: I'm sure if we watched Rain play in first person, we wouldn't see to much army controll either, he was most likely focusing on macro. He was expanding, building gates, setting rally points, producing units and so on, all over the map. Might as well focus your attention on that, and just send your units into sea and wear him down with all that shit you end up producing. He was very diligent with moving about the map and keeping Sea in the dark where actually would he hit. Terran cedes the initiative for a long time in the current meta and Rain exploits that. It's not a brainless macro a-move game, he has to keep track on where he moves and where he expands to limit the possible options for Terran both offensively and defensively. I still consider it ugly though just because it works by throwing away endless streams of units. But it's smart as hell. | ||
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3954 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9223 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On September 18 2018 21:33 Timebon3s wrote: Yeah thats what I was saying, it wasnt close like they say. He was building shit all over the place while throwing shit at sea so he couldt do anything. Yep, this is so true. That game was over for a loooooong time, but the commentators didn't really realize that and thought Sea was still in it and even thought he had a good chance to win it despite being down to like 100 supply. Rain was never in danger there unless he fucked up in much much bigger ways. And Sea was gonna run out of money pretty soon too. | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On September 18 2018 22:00 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: i agree that some of the trades could have been more efficient, on the other hand the decision to constantly trade preventing terran to max is the right call. Rain's production was close to perfect and he never really lost a base. Not quite true, Sea was actually maxed a few times I think, like when he crossed the bridges. I think by no means Rain played that great here, it's just that Sea is pretty poor these days unfortunately. | ||
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3954 Posts
On September 18 2018 22:47 Kaolla wrote: Not quite true, Sea was actually maxed a few times I think, like when he crossed the bridges. I think by no means Rain played that great here, it's just that Sea is pretty poor these days unfortunately. Sea was maxed with empty bank and at least 2 times slower production than Rain. I mean even trading evenly but on the Terran's side of the map means advantage for protoss who can remax by the time Terran moves out. | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On September 18 2018 22:55 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Sea was maxed with empty bank and at least 2 times slower production than Rain. I mean even trading evenly but on the Terran's side of the map means advantage for protoss who can remax by the time Terran moves out. Yea, I think more importantly, he didnt even manage to trade that well there. I mean it was pretty even despite him defending and having nice upgrades. | ||
Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3679 Posts
WTF? | ||
Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
On September 19 2018 00:13 superjoppe wrote: YouTube can’t view the video due to material from WMG and Merlin Hopeless Records. WTF? Yeah man , this is the 2nd time this happened, im starting to see what youtubers have been complaining about for years , you can still watch the vod on afreeca w/ english comments | ||
O.P.
Sweden109 Posts
On September 19 2018 00:50 Tchado wrote: Yeah man , this is the 2nd time this happened, im starting to see what youtubers have been complaining about for years , you can still watch the vod on afreeca w/ english comments Is there a link? The app only let's me watch the Korean vids. | ||
Brainojack
Canada195 Posts
On September 19 2018 01:45 O.P. wrote: Is there a link? The app only let's me watch the Korean vids. The first page of this thread has the English Afreeca link also here | ||
tanngard
Norway1321 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3679 Posts
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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O.P.
Sweden109 Posts
On September 19 2018 02:17 Brainojack wrote: The first page of this thread has the English Afreeca link also here Thank you, that link worked. But it runs like molasses. Watching the vids on Flash's channel instead. | ||
Odoakar
Croatia1834 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3302 Posts
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Starecat
931 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2541 Posts
On September 19 2018 05:43 Odoakar wrote: What player did shady stuff? In my opinion, no one did. | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1654 Posts
Lol I don't even know who did it. Rain sacrificed some armies in weird ways.... Sea had an advantage and threw his army away in the last push.......I guess..? It definitely was sloppy but maybe that style is just not as elegant as we expect from Rain. The style of throwing your units at the opponent over and over and over Either way idk where the hell the matchfix accusations could even occur, I think its just a warning for the 1 or 2 messages in this thread about "suspicious" stuff | ||
Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
On September 19 2018 04:41 nurle wrote: This noregret guy tho is awesome. It's super clear that SC2 is what Noregret knows, and not so much BW, but despite that he has some good insights and a unique perspective. | ||
Turbovolver
Australia2277 Posts
On September 18 2018 22:46 Kaolla wrote: Yep, this is so true. That game was over for a loooooong time, but the commentators didn't really realize that and thought Sea was still in it and even thought he had a good chance to win it despite being down to like 100 supply. Rain was never in danger there unless he fucked up in much much bigger ways. And Sea was gonna run out of money pretty soon too. I think you overstate that a bit. Rain's strategy was indeed to keep Sea mostly stuck in his base, and happy to make bad trades to do so, and the commentators missed that strategy by perhaps focusing a little too heavily on the supply counts of both players. I didn't fully pick up on that either, although I was only half-watching the last game because I was also trying to get some other stuff done. I don't feel like the game was completely over for ages, though. There were some times for example where Sea didn't fully commit to defending (leaving units he didn't think he'd need at his third) that would have let him crush some of those fights even harder. A dropship or two could have done some crazy damage too, I imagine. | ||
SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1701 Posts
He had the advantage so he could afford the mistake. And I dont buy that it wasnt a mistake. Even if you are looking to trade inefficiently, there are plenty of opportunities to do so when the T moves out. In the meantime you can expand further and build up a bank. Well, it wasnt that bad.. its always tricky assessing when an attack will work or not; which is what separates those with good game sense from those who dont. I should probably give Rain a break but its hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when he does it so many times vs Zerg. And it sounds like he sort of did it again vs Sea too. Would have to watch it though. | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
I was happy to see Mind and Sea get knocked out. Both players are annoying to me. At first I gave Sea the benefit of the doubt that he was drunk when he punched that girl, but now I think that is just him. | ||
reincremate
China2207 Posts
Not hating on the dude or anything, as I find his play entertaining to watch, but if he runs into Flash this time around, he's going to get stomped by superior preparation and overall gamesense. | ||
A.Alm
Sweden494 Posts
Wow, Sharp is looking very strong, while Rain is looking surprisingly week. Sharp has been doing a lot of meditation lately, and it seems to work. I know a lot of other people who have become just better people due to meditation. Really interesting. I have a hard time seeing Rain doing well in upcoming tournaments tbh, esp since he went 0-4 vs JD too in KSL. | ||
Barneyk
Sweden290 Posts
On September 19 2018 18:00 A.Alm wrote: ---SPOILERS--- Wow, Sharp is looking very strong, while Rain is looking surprisingly week. Sharp has been doing a lot of meditation lately, and it seems to work. I know a lot of other people who have become just better people due to meditation. Really interesting. I have a hard time seeing Rain doing well in upcoming tournaments tbh, esp since he went 0-4 vs JD too in KSL. I think you are being a bit to harsh on Rain, he really messed up, getting the dragoon stuck on the ramp surrounded by SCVs, and was really unlucky with his probe drill in his game vs Sharp. In his other games I thought he was playing so damn good at times, the way he expanded at the same time as he was attacking and just overall being great with his overall macro play. But I don't know what he was thinking taking so many bad engagements against Sea and making that game feel a lot closer than it needed to be. And yes, I know that is the strategy in that kind of a game, when he had so much more income than Sea he could take bad trades like that and starve Sea out. And it worked. But there were a few times where he left himself to exposed and he took some really bad engagements. He said he was disappointed about it himself in the interview. And it is hard to take good engagements when you spend so much time and effort keeping your macro up, and it worked out pretty decisively in the end. Beating Mind and Sea is really good and I don't think Rain looked weak at all. | ||
Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9223 Posts
On September 19 2018 19:49 Dante08 wrote: That last game was so weird. If Rain saturated his bottom right bases he would have run Sea over ages ago. Instead there were only a handful of probes there and he kept throwing his units away. The worst engagement was the recall at the nat right next to the Terran army.That did not make any sense whatsoever, if he recalls the main it deals so much more damage. Maybe he was afraid the Arbiter would get emp'ed but it's way better than losing your whole army. Yeah that recall definitely wasn't what he wanted. The interesting thing though is that even though they were both maxed out when that recall went off, after the fighting was done Rain had a supply lead of 174 to 162. Sea never maxed out again after that and Rain pretty much never dropped below 170 supply. | ||
BlackJack
United States9223 Posts
On September 19 2018 10:04 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: Had to drop off before Rain vs Sea, but was really unimpressed with Rain vs Mind. His suicide of units that evened out supplies was pretty atrocious. He had the advantage so he could afford the mistake. And I dont buy that it wasnt a mistake. Even if you are looking to trade inefficiently, there are plenty of opportunities to do so when the T moves out. In the meantime you can expand further and build up a bank. Well, it wasnt that bad.. its always tricky assessing when an attack will work or not; which is what separates those with good game sense from those who dont. I should probably give Rain a break but its hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when he does it so many times vs Zerg. And it sounds like he sort of did it again vs Sea too. Would have to watch it though. Waiting for the Terran to move out to trade inefficiently sounds like a good way to get steamrolled. Having a bank isn't going to save you then. | ||
ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
On September 19 2018 04:41 nurle wrote: Im sorry, but Rapid shouldn't cast sc1. He might be a great sc2 caster. But he doesn't know what hes talking about. Contradicting his cocasters and even himself all the time. And tiny details is missed every time. This noregret guy tho is awesome. i agree 100% he is lacking basic bw knowledge: In game 1 he didn't know why Rain build the pilon nest to the minerals while the probe was reatreating... speaking about some proxy options while it was to have vision of minerals outside the base so he can probe-drill. That was a cool move they would be able to speak about, but they were unable because of not knowing that is important. also in the Sea vs Sharp game they were keep saying that the situation is even, never mentioned and maybe noticed that Sharp was 1 base up for a really long period and that he was splitting the map better. in the final game they thought Sea is in advantage... it was just 1-2 minutes before he died. Rain had a much better economy for so long. | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 19 2018 19:49 Dante08 wrote: That last game was so weird. If Rain saturated his bottom right bases he would have run Sea over ages ago. Instead there were only a handful of probes there and he kept throwing his units away. The worst engagement was the recall at the nat right next to the Terran army.That did not make any sense whatsoever, if he recalls the main it deals so much more damage. Maybe he was afraid the Arbiter would get emp'ed but it's way better than losing your whole army. In my opinion, Rain should have for no reason whatsoever done anything with bottom right. He had two gates there and was semi-saturated, this base was bait. Remember when he desperately counterpushed at the 6 o'clocked after the botched offensive recall (decent idea in keeping with his overall strategy, bad execution - he got flustered because his arbiters were under fire and recalled terribly), so Sea had to backtrack to save his 4th? Right then Rain had the 12 and adjacent mineral only, and they were a big part of his income. Think about Sea pushing after a bad recall or particularly inefficient trade, defending his 4th and then destroying the bottom right? This is a Terran dream, you can mine pretty well to stall reinforcements from top right and push into bottom right. He didn't need that base and Sea knew it, he never pushed in that direction. Rain is a smart guy. | ||
SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1701 Posts
On September 19 2018 21:51 BlackJack wrote: Waiting for the Terran to move out to trade inefficiently sounds like a good way to get steamrolled. Having a bank isn't going to save you then. I humbly disagree. Suiciding into sieged tanks in a Terran base would be an even quicker way. This was figured out when all Flash did was defend with no map control or the threat of pushing out before max. P realized they can take over the map and build many gateways in various locations and remax in the blink of an eye. Granted not a lot of Ps can actually execute this, but it was the best way to beat Flash back then.. Flash lost a lot of games to this strat and had to level up his game sense and timing in order to punish Protosses for expanding too much / too soon. Obviously I'm not saying never attack a Terran in his base and always wait for him to move out. Rain did a great great job knowing that Mind had too little (and no vultures) when taking his third, and this attack is what got Rain the lead in the first place. Again, maybe I shouldnt be too hard on Rain, but it seems like he has a very real tendency to attack when maxed regardless of the situation. He had such good sense in the mid game and then it's usually the opposite in late game. It almost seems that he doesnt believe there is an option to NOT attack when maxed. | ||
RKC
2841 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
On September 20 2018 05:21 TaardadAiel wrote: In my opinion, Rain should have for no reason whatsoever done anything with bottom right. He had two gates there and was semi-saturated, this base was bait. Remember when he desperately counterpushed at the 6 o'clocked after the botched offensive recall (decent idea in keeping with his overall strategy, bad execution - he got flustered because his arbiters were under fire and recalled terribly), so Sea had to backtrack to save his 4th? Right then Rain had the 12 and adjacent mineral only, and they were a big part of his income. Think about Sea pushing after a bad recall or particularly inefficient trade, defending his 4th and then destroying the bottom right? This is a Terran dream, you can mine pretty well to stall reinforcements from top right and push into bottom right. He didn't need that base and Sea knew it, he never pushed in that direction. Rain is a smart guy. Rain definitely needed that base, at one point in the game he was only on 3 mining bases which is not enough to keep throwing units away like he did. Also there's no reason why Protoss wouldn't saturate a base with probes + gateways, it takes Terran ages to push up into a main with gateways + cannons and if Sea really attacked bottom right Rain could easily take top left. Sea never pushed bottom right because he was stuck in his base the whole time and when he did manage to push out, he needed to push towards 3 o'clock because his new base was there (4th didn't have much minerals left). He just played below his usual standard but still won as he is still superior to Sea in this matchup. | ||
Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
On September 20 2018 12:06 RKC wrote: So what's the alternative to attacking when Protoss is maxed out besides expanding and teching (which Rain did) whilst the Terran is not actively expanding, pushing out or even fighting for map control (which Sea wasn't doing)? Recall | ||
Barneyk
Sweden290 Posts
On September 20 2018 12:47 Dante08 wrote: Recall And stormdrops. And better attacks. But hey, Rain won and he had the game under control, I think he knew what he was doing. But as he said himself, he wasn't that happy with a lot of the engagements. But it takes so much skill to have good engagements when you are macroing that much at the same time, and he seemed to spend more apm on keeping the macro up than he did in the engagements, that is a valid strategy. | ||
Starecat
931 Posts
There is anyway to download and avoid the afreeca player that for no reason wants the video to always be on max something my internet can't do. | ||
A.Alm
Sweden494 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden290 Posts
On September 21 2018 05:22 Starecat wrote: Do we have to wait until the finals to watch? There is anyway to download and avoid the afreeca player that for no reason wants the video to always be on max something my internet can't do. You can watch the games here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGIx6XUmoVMf01PVrOjVbRA/featured I try and watch them from official sources but if that doesn't work it is a good option. | ||
Starecat
931 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1654 Posts
On September 19 2018 15:51 reincremate wrote: Rain stupidly suiciding his armies is nothing new. He's blessed with strong mechanics but has comparatively poor decision-making that is sometimes hilariously bad, which is probably the result of too much time spent looking at titties and not enough time spent practicing. Here's a prime example of very Rain-esque play (ASL4 Ro8 Rain vs Larva Game 4): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9eCGElQJIM&t=5842 Not hating on the dude or anything, as I find his play entertaining to watch, but if he runs into Flash this time around, he's going to get stomped by superior preparation and overall gamesense. I remember that game. I was so pissed at Rain's play. You say he's going to get stomped, but Rain has a better record vs Flash online and they're always macro games. I know online is online but Rain definitely has the skills to beat Flash in a BO5. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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