[ASL7] Semifinal A - Mini vs EffOrt
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
i feel zvp has been a bit neglected in recent years given flash's dominance - everyone has dedicated a lot more time to zvt than zvp. zvt has changed drastically but zvp has always felt like zerg either gets harassed to death or wins with a hydra bust. | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
Head: Effort Heart: Mini Rain vs Last Head: Rain Heart: Last I really hope we see some sick mole zerg shenanigans in Effort vs Mini!!! That would be sick if Effort flexes on him. Might not be a bad idea to try and make Mini nervous. If Effort uses burrowed Zerglings I will be his fan for a long time. | ||
ssj114
Afghanistan461 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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NoS-Craig
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oEkY
Germany641 Posts
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lamarine
584 Posts
On March 03 2019 16:30 NoS-Craig wrote: I can't see Mini winning this one. I'm not looking forward to a 3-0 stomp so hopefully Mini makes it a competitive series at least. i can | ||
arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
On March 03 2019 17:56 oEkY wrote: Mini recently played a lot of pvz ladder games with an 1 base 1 gate fast reaver build, so i'm really curious to see if he got the guts to play something like that in an ASL semifinal against someone like Effort as well You are always best when you play what you prepared. So, I would totally expect him to do that. | ||
Wonk
546 Posts
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whaski
Finland575 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12659 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
Awesome dude. This can definitely be a great series if Mini is on point. Going to be really tough for him though. | ||
nojok
France15837 Posts
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nojok
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
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NoS-Craig
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goody153
43992 Posts
i think it makes a huuuge difference | ||
nojok
France15837 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:29 BLinD-RawR wrote: Lol who even votes yes? | ||
oxKnu
1128 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:28 nojok wrote: Really mini? That's not what we want, you are killing starcraft. LOL. Sure bro. | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Mini bringing em | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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mechzdeus
88 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:34 mechzdeus wrote: Getting ads for Friends watching Broodwar in 2019 Some things have staying power. | ||
xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:28 nojok wrote: Really mini? That's not what we want, you are killing starcraft. Wrong opinion. | ||
bovienchien
Vietnam1142 Posts
It is called Mini is just a nickname. | ||
goody153
43992 Posts
we might end up with a pvp finals (which i don't remember ever happening lately) as last prolly will get smashed by rain like the usual | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Orbs pointing mini gas timing late 1sair He will die to mutas | ||
nojok
France15837 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:40 goody153 wrote: if mini actually wins this series we might end up with a pvp finals (which i don't remember ever happening lately) as last prolly will get smashed by rain like the usual I wish I could forget ASL5 like you, the islands, the tiny ramps. | ||
KwarK
United States40774 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
edit: this is really so damn disappointing from effort .. sunkens are a thing man | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Overextension? Holy crap no no pvp finals | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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nojok
France15837 Posts
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KwarK
United States40774 Posts
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RJGooner
United States2038 Posts
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nojok
France15837 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:49 RJGooner wrote: What the hell was Effort doing? How do you not immediately throw down sunkens after seeing 4 gateways? he likes his chances better with muta vs zealots apparently | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Jackal03
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Sabu113
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BLinD-RawR
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goody153
43992 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
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keit
1584 Posts
come on effort | ||
xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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quilajino
Brazil46 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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KwarK
United States40774 Posts
But you've got to respond to what you see. When you see the forge spinning early you can't not have the 2 sunks + sim city ready, especially after the 4 gate is confirmed. | ||
ggsimida
1100 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:52 sM.Zik wrote: Damn I enjoy watching Mini PvZ same i got into watching his stream as of late, his aggressive style is refreshing to watch. pity he doesn't have the latent multitasking bisu had. | ||
goody153
43992 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:53 keit wrote: all I was hoping for was that it wouldn't just be a steamroll for either player.. come on effort yeah i actually thought this would at least be competitive given the players and their MU | ||
oxKnu
1128 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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N.geNuity
United States5111 Posts
Do you not put it over the nat on matchpoint? Would have seen no second gas way earlier than those lings running in | ||
nojok
France15837 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:54 goody153 wrote: yeah i actually thought this would at least be competitive given the players and their MU It's still closer than all IEM's series. | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Rain needs a real finals | ||
Motivate
2860 Posts
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KwarK
United States40774 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:02 KwarK wrote: I still feel like Mini's style is easily beatable, the question now is whether it's beatable by Effort while not responding to scouting info. effort probably on tilt to even adapt against mini this series | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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goody153
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nojok
France15837 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Oh no Poor by mini | ||
KwarK
United States40774 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
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schaf
Germany1325 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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nojok
France15837 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Gorgeous engage | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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nojok
France15837 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
great win by effort! | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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keit
1584 Posts
nicely done effort | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19121 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
effort builds mutas/scourge not sunkens | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3680 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
block chain is a shitshow for ZvP | ||
sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:20 BLinD-RawR wrote: This next set is going to be so hard for EffOrt block chain is a shitshow for ZvP its bad any mu imo haha | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19121 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:26 Nyovne wrote: Mini losing on blockchain will tilt him though. But man that map :E. yeah its a super dumb map. | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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Jackal03
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Gg | ||
Jackal03
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NoS-Craig
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Greg_J
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Greg_J
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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nojok
France15837 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
think mini is on tilt he should just stick on what is good on this series (zealot timing attack) | ||
maybenexttime
Poland5231 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:35 nojok wrote: Those eggs were the true heroes blocking that reaver for so long Zerg solidarity. | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
you don't call their entire thing a hivemind for no reason xD | ||
Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
Poll: Anyone rooting for mini? Yes (11) Hahahahaha (10) No. (Polite) (4) 25 total votes Your vote: Anyone rooting for mini? | ||
RowdierBob
Australia12659 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
On March 03 2019 19:01 sM.Zik wrote: Mini has good PvZ but I think Effort takes this 3-2, but wouldnt be schoked if its a 3-0 after Mini mentality breaks down. Please effort make me look smart. | ||
carebear91
Singapore236 Posts
On a side note, does anyone know where to find a track list for this season’s ASL?. They have a bunch of great songs this season. | ||
NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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weiliem
2049 Posts
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N.geNuity
United States5111 Posts
Too bad for him. He really is a hope for stylish bw since making ro8 of tving osl but just cant get to the top | ||
quilajino
Brazil46 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
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Jackal03
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nojok
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11032 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
edit: that feels almost meta shifting. ZvT has revolved around sniping templar with Metas for so long. Just not building any and putting your gas into other things might be a new direction for Protoss. | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
effort loses | ||
whaski
Finland575 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
great series tho | ||
nojok
France15837 Posts
Go last, save us from PvP! | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
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Sr18
Netherlands1141 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:55 nojok wrote: GG Go last, save us from PvP! didn't rain beat last in almost every one of their encounters | ||
Motivate
2860 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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quilajino
Brazil46 Posts
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elpolloloco31
142 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
Guess it won't be another championship for Effort. LOL | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
Gonna be a boring finals now =[ | ||
Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
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goody153
43992 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:56 Jackal03 wrote: my god, i can only hope last beats rain, else we're gonna have another shitty finals mini is a beast and so is rain .. i would love any of them in the finals but not together .. pvp is the least fun MU by a margin | ||
PanoRaMa
United States5068 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19121 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:59 PanoRaMa wrote: Really wanted EffOrt in the finals, but he was fated to lose on the anniversary of the Revolution, the day an up and coming PvZ savant beat the #1 in the world. why fated? is there a curse? | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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oxKnu
1128 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:58 Dante08 wrote: Effort tried to be too smart in the games he lost. Why keep going muta? Because Z's are used to getting free wins by just going Mutas for such a long time, along with Z's not caring what P usually does in the matchup in terms of BO. It's hard to beat old habits. | ||
NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
I'm wondering what Mini can do to prepare for this series because I've never been hugely impressed by his PvT or PvP. | ||
ggsimida
1100 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:04 Wonk wrote: I'm wondering what Mini can do to prepare for this series because I've never been hugely impressed by his PvT or PvP. lol yeah its actually better if he faces rain instead of last, his pvt is his worst he can't lategame to snuff | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:59 goody153 wrote: mini is a beast and so is rain .. i would love any of them in the finals but not together .. pvp is the least fun MU by a margin Mini is a lucky guy and not quite a beast at all. I mean, he wins vs Calm who played like shit and today's Effort was also pretty poor... All wins today are pretty much early game wins and effort even scouts exactly what he's doing 2/3 losses and he still manages to fuck up badly. Just a poor series in general in my opinion or at least I definitely did not feel any of the games were really that good (except for maybe game 3, but Effort also played super sloppy in that imo)... | ||
goody153
43992 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:01 Jackal03 wrote: if rain wins, the 3rd place match will be more interesting than the finals I forgot that 3rd placer match is a thing on ASL. Guess my ASL experience final series is still saved then even if Rain wins lol | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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TiQ.SinGi
Norway384 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: Mini is a lucky guy and not quite a beast at all. I mean, he wins vs Calm who played like shit and today's Effort was also pretty poor... All wins today are pretty much early game wins and effort even scouts exactly what he's doing 2/3 losses and he still manages to fuck up badly. Just a poor series in general in my opinion or at least I definitely did not feel any of the games were really that good (except for maybe game 3, but Effort also played super sloppy in that imo)... Surprisingly every time the unexpected player wins, it's "luck" rather than any skill... | ||
nikolaus8844
101 Posts
As for a PvP finals... not so sure. I don't know why everyone's so certain that Rain will roll over Last. Last has a very solid mentality and can hold his own under pressure. Plus.... he's a lot more flexible and willing to switch it up depending on the occasion. I just LOVED IT when Snow and Calm rocked the boat in Ro16, and Last immediately adapted. Mannnnnnnnnnnnnn Soulkey was SO salty :D it made me feel all fuzzy and warm inside. Those two.. Soulkey and Rain - can't see any real character in them. Not a legend material That being said.. Rain is really solid PvT. Guess Last will take him down 3:2. | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:23 xccam wrote: Surprisingly every time the unexpected player wins, it's "luck" rather than any skill... Well maybe not really luck, but I mean any other (pro) protoss using the same builds would have won these games. I feel Mini just didn't do anything special really and it was mostly Effort that lost the games. So yea, I feel tonight's games were not that great at all and a 3-2 series isn't automatically a great series. I guess we don't all have to agree on that | ||
whaski
Finland575 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:38 Kaolla wrote: Well maybe not really luck, but I mean any other (pro) protoss using the same builds would have won these games. I feel Mini just didn't do anything special really and it was mostly Effort that lost the games. So yea, I feel tonight's games were not that great at all and a 3-2 series isn't automatically a great series. I guess we don't all have to agree on that I saw it the opposite way. Mini had great micro and decision making today. Also great preparation. I was tired already of seeing protosses losing corsairs again muta/scourge, and today Mini had great micro with his corsairs. Not to mention his zealot+probe micro. And the overall decision making was great, no pointless engagements where he would lose the whole army for nothing, as we again, see so many times protosses doing. The preparation was on point too, think about the pylon in the first game, and the not-so-standard builds he prepared in general. That's how you approach Bo5. Just think about it - we didn't see one storm today, in 5 PvZ games! | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
At his best he's maybe stronger than anyone but he is just as likely to upset himself like he did today. I hope Last's wrists won't hurt this week so he could eventually win his well deserved ASL! Rain is so scary tho. | ||
rackdude
United States882 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: Mini is a lucky guy and not quite a beast at all. I mean, he wins vs Calm who played like shit and today's Effort was also pretty poor... All wins today are pretty much early game wins and effort even scouts exactly what he's doing 2/3 losses and he still manages to fuck up badly. Just a poor series in general in my opinion or at least I definitely did not feel any of the games were really that good (except for maybe game 3, but Effort also played super sloppy in that imo)... Yes, every single one of the best players in the world always tends to play like shit against Mini because he's super lucky, every single time, and he's not causing it? That makes sense... See, the thing with Mini is he plays a great micro game. He's always getting just a few more drones and lings out of his zealots. Every single time. We can chalk that up to Mini since it's so consistent. And this changes the dynamic of the game, because now the Z will have less and have to deal with the possibility of aggression (building more units and less drones), which makes the Z look like their macro is off and making bad choices (locked into units because they were built early). But Mini's aggro play is causing the game to look like this, so he gets "lucky" every time he chooses to be lucky. | ||
ggsimida
1100 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4076 Posts
On March 03 2019 22:02 ggsimida wrote: just realised mini has only played pvz for the entirety of this tourney so far, including his wildcard seed match against action. being able to concentrate on only 1 type of matchup must be pretty comforting too. I would agree with this completely if it was anything but PvZ. I think any protoss but Bisu will prefer to face different race every game than facing only zergs | ||
Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:01 oxKnu wrote: Because Z's are used to getting free wins by just going Mutas for such a long time, along with Z's not caring what P usually does in the matchup in terms of BO. It's hard to beat old habits. I'll credit to Mini though, instead of building Corsairs when he saw Mutas he built Archons + dragoons which I seldom see and Effort was totally caught off guard. There were a few times in the series where he just flew mutas and a ton of scourge in with no Corsairs to snipe lol. | ||
geod
Vietnam448 Posts
On March 03 2019 22:22 M2 wrote: I would agree with this completely if it was anything but PvZ. I think any protoss but Bisu will prefer to face different race every game than facing only zergs From now on : any protoss but Bisu and Mini. PvZ is his best matchup and he is insanely good at it. | ||
Rodya
546 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria386 Posts
And I don't care what the finals are, PvP or PvT, it will be an awesome display of skill and abilities anyway. | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
Mini versus Rain finals would be epic. I’d watch that for sure. Last time I saw the two play each other in an ASL the games were close. We would probably see some Dark Archon shenanigans like Best’s pimpest play in a previous ASL where he Feedbacks HTs. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19029 Posts
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asel
Germany1597 Posts
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kaspa84
Brazil159 Posts
Mini probably is not on the same level as Rain overall, but his PvZ seems to me the best in the world right now. | ||
Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On March 04 2019 02:47 BisuDagger wrote: Great games by Mini. Rain has got to be really happy about this result too. Based on stats alone this would be a free win finals. I cannot imagine how emotionally devastating that will be to Mini... To be 3-0'ed by Rain. | ||
KwarK
United States40774 Posts
On March 04 2019 03:24 Disregard wrote: I cannot imagine how emotionally devastating that will be to Mini... To be 3-0'ed by Rain. I mean he knows it’s coming. | ||
Brainojack
Canada195 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
I hope for Mini's sake that they both underestimate him the same way Effort seemed to, and Mini can surprise us all! | ||
Li_Xin
45 Posts
Although I'm pretty sure he would've beat EffOrt anyways. | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 04 2019 06:12 Li_Xin wrote: Congratulations to Rain for winning ASL7. Although I'm pretty sure he would've beat EffOrt anyways. Hahah. People were saying Effort was unstoppable, too. Rain is more reliable but less unplayable at his best, Last and Mini aren't exactly weak. | ||
Aminus
Bulgaria35 Posts
In 3 mini tries to be snow but doesnt have his reaver control. The engagement in the forest where you want to gather all your army and run thru zerg base, he run away his corsairs knowing there is a clump of mutas ready to snipe his reavers, that was the wtf moment in the game and typical mini brainfart. In the 4th game so simple way to deny zerg 3rd was just canon rush, no way zerg can reinforce that island base you just let them do it and make pylon and a canon and then its 2 vs 2 base, but mini didnt think of that at all, he wanted to do his corsair reaver build and thats it. Game 5 same as 1 and 2, ountstanding, he was ready for everything effort does, and won in dominating manner. Well deserved win, although he couldve ended it game or two earlier. | ||
Starecat
932 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:59 Nyovne wrote: Great last 2 games but FFFFFFFUUUUUUUAAAAAAAARRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKK damned pvp finals. Hate that shit with a passion. Even prefer a zvz series with the hope for at least 1 lategame zvz in there somewhere ;P. BW PvP is enjoyable to watch. It's kinda funny that ZvZ on BW is complete shit to watch as PvP on SC2. Awesome games today. The salt that brought to the last game was hilarious. | ||
r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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Ty2
United States1430 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
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StarkTemplar
United States9 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:38 carebear91 wrote: Oh god mini looks so tilted. On a side note, does anyone know where to find a track list for this season’s ASL?. They have a bunch of great songs this season. I would love to find a track list too. Youtube lists some of the songs but many of them are wrong or missing completely. I really like the first song in RO8 Day 1. I've been trying everything to find the artist who does it. Shazaam, reddit, etc but can't find it lol. It's stuck in my head arggg. | ||
EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
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RJGooner
United States2038 Posts
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Li_Xin
45 Posts
On March 04 2019 09:12 Ty2 wrote: I'm pulling for Last all the way now that Effort is out. The man deserves it! But he killed Jaedong... | ||
IntoTheEmo
Singapore1168 Posts
1. Jaedong's alive and uploads StarCraft pretty much every day, I'm subscribed to his YT 2. Last is on the same boat, battling wrist issues | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On March 03 2019 22:44 Dante08 wrote: I'll credit to Mini though, instead of building Corsairs when he saw Mutas he built Archons + dragoons which I seldom see and Effort was totally caught off guard. There were a few times in the series where he just flew mutas and a ton of scourge in with no Corsairs to snipe lol. I feel that was more a blunder of Effort though. Why on earth would Mini switch back to corsair tech after already having invested in a templar's archives and (for a game that short) so many gates... Really odd if you ask me. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On March 03 2019 20:59 Nyovne wrote: Great last 2 games but FFFFFFFUUUUUUUAAAAAAAARRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKK damned pvp finals. Hate that shit with a passion. Even prefer a zvz series with the hope for at least 1 lategame zvz in there somewhere ;P. Huh? Rain v Last hasn't been played.... | ||
JoinTheRain
Bulgaria386 Posts
On March 04 2019 13:04 L_Master wrote: Huh? Rain v Last hasn't been played.... Everyone just assumes Rain will steamroll Last and do the same to Mini; they don't seem to recall Sharp beat him in a convincing fashion TvP Bo5 and I would not say Last is worse than Sharp. Just like they expected Effort to do with Mini, I guess. I am not saying it's impossible for Rain to smash Last but he will to bring his absolute A game in order to do so. But anyway - this is why the game is so enjoyable to me - to predict the outcome of uncertain events based on past performance is so shaky and unreliable. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On March 04 2019 16:47 JoinTheRain wrote: Everyone just assumes Rain will steamroll Last and do the same to Mini; they don't seem to recall Sharp beat him in a convincing fashion TvP Bo5 and I would not say Last is worse than Sharp. Just like they expected Effort to do with Mini, I guess. I am not saying it's impossible for Rain to smash Last but he will to bring his absolute A game in order to do so. But anyway - this is why the game is so enjoyable to me - to predict the outcome of uncertain events based on past performance is so shaky and unreliable. Yea, I'm not sure why anyone would expect a steamroll over Last. Last is clearly on paper the second best terran player and second best BW player behind Flash. Maybe his tournament results aren't quite as strong...but they are still very elite with many top 8s and 4s. Sure, his wrist is giving him problems...but we just watched him get to the Ro4, last series over Sharp in a drawn out Bo5 of TvT....if his wrist was in ultra bad mode I can't imagine he would have gotten past Sharp. That could flare up and make the series a casual 3-0 for Rain. It could. But up until this point it's been good enough for Last to compete with top class players in this tour, including Sharp who is best in TvT. Is Rain the favorite? Yea, definitely. But talking about this series like it's Rain v Tinkle or something is being silly. | ||
Proko
United States1022 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
Best of all though, after almost having a breakdown as usual, Mini stayed calm and took a cool game 5 that saw dark templars slick through EffOrt's chances of victory. It wasn't even some kind of trick or anything, it was just Mini straight up outplaying EffOrt, much like Rain vs Action on Gladiator from ASL5 where Rain just destroyed Action. Mini was underestimated and EffOrt paid for it which is funny since Mini has been playing nothing, but ZvP this whole tournament and that surely made him a better ZvP player since he could focus on the one matchup. Mixing in different styles in each game too must've gotten into EffOrt's head in the sense that he had to keep wondering what Mini will throw at him. Granted, Mini was the underdog going into this but there was a chance for an upset and there it is! :D "I'm gonna beat you with zealots" -> you certainly did Mini, you certainly did haha. This result makes me so happy. EffOrt might be one of the best Zergs, but he's not someone that can be relied on to consistently make finals and win back to back championships. Of course, this is a better finish for him than any other tourneys except ASL6. However, only the best, aka Flash are allowed to win 3 ASLs in a row On that note, Rain vs Last will be amazing to watch. I'd be nice to have a new ASL champion so I'm rooting for Last personally. | ||
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 03 2019 21:49 arbiter_md wrote: Just think about it - we didn't see one storm today, in 5 PvZ games! Yeah that's interesting to note. I was rooting for effort especially since he could stomp rain or last but damn Mini played very well and deserved the win. There's a good reason why larva voted for mini too I suppose. I'm terrible at ZvP so I don't know, was effort's reaction to his scouting of mini's builds bad? (Eg game 5) Did mini outsmart him or did effort not play as well as he should have? Bigfan, please just shut up about Flash already | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On March 05 2019 00:41 JieXian wrote: Yeah that's interesting to note. I was rooting for effort especially since he could stomp rain or last but damn Mini played very well and deserved the win. There's a good reason why larva voted for mini too I suppose. I'm terrible at ZvP so I don't know, was effort's reaction to his scouting of mini's builds bad? (Eg game 5) Did mini outsmart him or did effort not play as well as he should have? Bigfan, please just shut up about Flash already If you can't tell that was a joke, well, can't help you there then. | ||
Moopower
126 Posts
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
As is tradition (Three Kings, Neo-Three Kings, Six Dragons), a new Protoss era is marked by a group of Protosses reaching their peak simultaneously. | ||
iFU.pauline
France1388 Posts
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kaspa84
Brazil159 Posts
So many people dismissing Last because of his hurt wrists... Last is a beast, and though I will root for rain, he is far from eliminated yet. | ||
KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
Mini has a chance against Rain. I remember a PvP they played with Dark Archons. Especially if Mini goes into the series with a boost of confidence he has a better chance then what people are writing here. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On March 05 2019 06:43 KamMoye wrote: Unless it's Flash v X, top pro v top pro is never worse than 3:1 for an upset. Anyone who thinks this is a tremendously huge upset isn't paying attention to the scene. There were many people who acted like effort was guaranteed finals. Just like now there are many acting like Rain can't lose. They're just hiding their ignorance through faux confidence. Well played and well deserved to Mini. To be fair, EffOrt looked really solid in ASL6 and was doing pretty well this ASL as well. Sure, Flash is at the top of the hierarchy and people will probably still bring up his losses in ATB, ASL5 and ASL6, however, if an underdog won, it's still an upset regardless. Maybe the magnitude is not as big, but I doubt that many people were confident in Mini's ability to beat EffOrt especially since he's an emotional player. | ||
ggsimida
1100 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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Li_Xin
45 Posts
Last beating Sharp was hardly an upset considering he just 3-0'd Sharp in the last ASL and it's by far his strongest matchup. My prediction: Rain smashes Last and then Mini and then goes on to be the strongest player for some time with Flash gone. | ||
Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On March 04 2019 23:06 BigFan wrote: This series was just great. To the untrained eye, it'd feel like EffOrt underperformed and there's a possibility that he did in some games, but Mini played the series so well with the way he utilized his units to their best and varied up his style in each game. In game 1, we saw his fantastic zealot micro and a great opener that stunned EffOrt from the start. Game 2 saw the 4 gate speedlot +1 attack, and while EffOrt held the first wave, he was not prepared to hold future ones especially since he went mutas and Mini did a fantastic job of splitting the units up. Game 3 was great defense by EffOrt and then Mini fumbling in the trees so that the mutas closed in on the reavers (his last chance to do something since he almost mined out on 2 bases) then game 4 was a nice shuttle snipe from EffOrt, albeit a bit lucky when he got the first scourge hit. Only Larva seems to pull this stuff off consistently. So funny, now that it isnt Flash you can suddenly acknowledge a player making a favorite "look" bad but actually is just playing bettter. Im still salty about you phrasing when Effort beat Flash and you somehow made the conclusion that Flash was having a bad day. So, yes, the victory was well deserved, but in some games, it felt like Flash didn't play like himself. Maybe he was a bit nervous, felt like it when watching the interview early on. He also kept sticking to the same idea. He knows that EffOrt knows this, and kept going at it. The Flash I know wouldn't try to be that predictive imo... | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On March 05 2019 10:47 JieXian wrote: Regarding why Effort went muta again and again, my hypothesis is that he might face Rain in the finals and he was playing in a particular way in preparation for that. What do you think? I thought they were Hail Mary attempts to win the game. If the opponent made a single mistake (not enough corsairs, inppropriate cannon placement, unguarded high templars) mutalisks straight up win the game. Not a bad plan if you know you're behind and stand a bad chance winning with the more standard hydra play. I could be wrong though. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States9649 Posts
On March 05 2019 16:46 Ota Solgryn wrote: So funny, now that it isnt Flash you can suddenly acknowledge a player making a favorite "look" bad but actually is just playing bettter. Im still salty about you phrasing when Effort beat Flash and you somehow made the conclusion that Flash was having a bad day. Flash made 2 science facilities and had an injuried wrist... maybe there is some merit behind him saying flash didnt play his 100%. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On March 05 2019 16:46 Ota Solgryn wrote: So funny, now that it isnt Flash you can suddenly acknowledge a player making a favorite "look" bad but actually is just playing bettter. Im still salty about you phrasing when Effort beat Flash and you somehow made the conclusion that Flash was having a bad day. So, let me get this straight. You're still salty about a comment I made 4-5 months ago in another LR where my opinion was that Flash didn't play as well as he could because I didn't believe he did. This was my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. You're free to believe that Flash was playing at 100% at the time and EffOrt beat an in-form Flash and that's fine. Likewise, I'm free to believe that Flash didn't play as well as he could especially when it was made clear in the interview afterwards and I gave plenty of examples back then as to where I believe he made uncharacteristic mistakes in his games. We'll just have to agree to disagree as usual. There's not much else to it. If you want to continue being salty about it, that's your prerogative. As for the games, I already gave examples of where Mini excelled in his game compared to you just cherrypicking the first line of my post and ignoring the rest. Much like the ASL6 finals, Mini knew that he couldn't contend with late game PvZ against someone of EffOrt's caliber and decided to go for different styles of play that helped him win in the early or mid game (or gain an advantage and ride it through). Either way, I don't care enough to try and get into an argument with you over my opinion of either series ~ On March 06 2019 04:01 Alpha-NP- wrote: Anyone else notice that Effort used Burrow against Mini’s Sair-Reaver? Effort is so showy when he plays it is amazing. Burrowed hydras is a legit strat to try and catch the shuttle/kill the reaver once he lands in your main. | ||
KamMoye
United States721 Posts
It's human nature to rationalize. If you wanted to make excuses after the fact, you shouldn't of competed in the first place. | ||
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 07 2019 01:36 KamMoye wrote: Stress makes players perform worse. Flash is rarely stressed or tested, so forcing him under that kind of stress takes tremendous skill and preparation from the opponent. Most people who have seriously competed and accomplished anything realize that, and that's why no one cares if someone is "playing bad"--no one at that level ever just "plays bad"--their opponent made them. It's human nature to rationalize. If you wanted to make excuses after the fact, you shouldn't of competed in the first place. Yes that's a fair point which I think many of us (probably Ota) share. Even if Flash was having the worst day of his life and he had to face a noob me in the ASL finals he'd probably still calmly stomp me without making 2 Science Facilities or drop his bottle cap, because he would have come in knowing he was the best. | ||
darktreb
United States3014 Posts
This overlooks how Effort is uniquely good at playing against Flash. Flash has insane game sense and in-game reads. Effort takes advantage of this better than anyone, because he knows he can count on Flash to notice something no one else would. Ironically, Effort is less good at playing against almost everyone else precisely because they are less good at Starcraft than Flash. Of course, Effort is still an incredibly good player, and that's why he still wins at a very high rate. But he is able to become a different level of player only against Flash, due to the unique combination of their respective strengths. | ||
KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 07 2019 10:36 darktreb wrote: One reason people overestimated Effort is because they naturally translate his results against Flash to how he should perform against others. This overlooks how Effort is uniquely good at playing against Flash. Flash has insane game sense and in-game reads. Effort takes advantage of this better than anyone, because he knows he can count on Flash to notice something no one else would. Ironically, Effort is less good at playing against almost everyone else precisely because they are less good at Starcraft than Flash. Of course, Effort is still an incredibly good player, and that's why he still wins at a very high rate. But he is able to become a different level of player only against Flash, due to the unique combination of their respective strengths. That's a good point and would explain the mindfucks going on in the last asl finals. | ||
Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On March 07 2019 01:36 KamMoye wrote: Stress makes players perform worse. Flash is rarely stressed or tested, so forcing him under that kind of stress takes tremendous skill and preparation from the opponent. Most people who have seriously competed and accomplished anything realize that, and that's why no one cares if someone is "playing bad"--no one at that level ever just "plays bad"--their opponent made them. It's human nature to rationalize. If you wanted to make excuses after the fact, you shouldn't of competed in the first place. You put my thoughts into exact words. Thank you. The reason for me bringing this up again (and maybe being overly salty about it) is because after so many years, so many times and different players not getting close to really testing Flash in a BO5 (only Effort before that, coincidence?), a player is finally able to do so; stress him so much he starts making mistakes, even uncharacteristic mistakes, and the effing BW editor on TeamLiquid of all places, takes the moment, this epic historic moment, and downplays it as the God having an off day. I would have never minded if it was a random user, even if it was an established user, it happens all the time. All the time a fan's favorite loses, and said fan will comment something like "he didnt bring his A game etc". As KamMoye wrote, that is human nature. But the BW editor now also did that. And it makes me worried for when something like that happens again. | ||
Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On March 07 2019 10:36 darktreb wrote: One reason people overestimated Effort is because they naturally translate his results against Flash to how he should perform against others. This overlooks how Effort is uniquely good at playing against Flash. Flash has insane game sense and in-game reads. Effort takes advantage of this better than anyone, because he knows he can count on Flash to notice something no one else would. Ironically, Effort is less good at playing against almost everyone else precisely because they are less good at Starcraft than Flash. Of course, Effort is still an incredibly good player, and that's why he still wins at a very high rate. But he is able to become a different level of player only against Flash, due to the unique combination of their respective strengths. Yes, very good points. It is exactly the same dynamic back when JD and Flash had a "rivalry" which Flash won all the time, and all the time made JD "look bad". Flash even stated this on stream and in interviews, that he knows JD inherent reaction patterns, and abuses it to win. Just see the second game last ASL in the group play. JD basically had that game and Flash commented afterwards that he knew he could lure JD to try to finish the game (because it was how JD always reacts), and thereby making the unlikely comeback. This same dynamic seems to be at play for Effort and Flash, only here Effort is the one "on top". It is known from all sports. In tennis Nadal has most of his career made Federer look bad, and it always seemed Federer played worse against Nadal. But what was really happening is that Nadal amazingly made Federer stressed and did not even let Federers normal strengths be at play, thereby making him look like he had an off day. | ||
SC_ar
United States35 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On March 09 2019 01:13 Xain0n wrote: If Last plays on his ro4 and ro8 level he should be able to prevail, otherwise Mini will do it. this pretty much. I expect Mini to go all out with preparation in order to try and beat Last. | ||
kaspa84
Brazil159 Posts
On March 09 2019 01:04 SC_ar wrote: Anybody believe that Mini can actually beat Last? Nobody believed he could beat Effort, yet he did. | ||
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
Most of all I'm hoping people don't start saying "oh Last only lost because of ze eeenjugrees!" or "Oh but Last wasn't playing at his 100%", if Mini happens to surmount Last. | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 09 2019 11:39 JieXian wrote: I'm rooting for Mini because he has crushed Larva and Effort this ASL and he'll be the extremely happy if he wins the championship. Most of all I'm hoping people don't start saying "oh Last only lost because of ze eeenjugrees!" or "Oh but Last wasn't playing at his 100%", if Mini happens to surmount Last. Quite sure people could be able to claim this even if it wouldn't happen to be the case. In any of case, it's very easy to see when Last is playing at his best and when he isn't so we could most likely understand if i's just a bad day or his wrists crippling him. Mini's time will come if he tames his emotionality while Last's is ending, I'd love for him to eventually win ASL. | ||
StarkTemplar
United States9 Posts
On March 04 2019 09:20 StarkTemplar wrote: I would love to find a track list too. Youtube lists some of the songs but many of them are wrong or missing completely. I really like the first song in RO8 Day 1. I've been trying everything to find the artist who does it. Shazaam, reddit, etc but can't find it lol. It's stuck in my head arggg. Sorry for the late post. My friend found the source of the first song! I've been looking for weeks. | ||
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