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On November 10 2018 13:21 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Thats you feeling pressure though. You dont have to feel pressure to do things. You do if you want to do them well, like an hour of playing at X time is worth twice as much as an hour of playing at Y time. That's time pressure to ensure that you're playing at X time and plan the rest of your life around it. WoW is the most demanding game that i can name in terms of schedule pressure, not just the amount of hours per week but the way that you MUST do things at certain times otherwise you won't be able to do them properly. WQ's which spawn 10 minutes after you get into bed and despawn 12hrs later mission table stuff that cycles every 4-8 hrs, vanishing if you weren't around to start missions m+ where you can't form groups properly for half of the day and have to follow the good/bad affix weeks because the community follows them and there are 5x more groups on some weeks than others M raids where you're locking yourself into playing for probably 3 or 4 nights and expected to hold 90%+ attendance WoW is one of those games where trying to M raid on a schedule, do as much m+ as raiding and keep up on gear/rep and general stuff completely shut down the rest of my life because i just couldn't plan around the hours that it demanded. There are some others where i can play 50 hours out of a 178 hour window and don't have to cancel, reschedule or mould any other activities - i just play and walk away whenever, for however long and as often as i want knowing that i can log in at some other point and i haven't lost anything at all as long as the amount of hours per week is unchanged. In some games you can drop them at 3am or 3pm on consecutive days and it doesn't matter at all. Funny that you dont even consider raiding 2 times a week with people who dont want to spend a shitton of time. Just keep on trying to swallow the whole fist
User was banned for this post.
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On November 10 2018 13:21 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Thats you feeling pressure though. You dont have to feel pressure to do things. You do if you want to do them well, like an hour of playing at X time is worth twice as much as an hour of playing at Y time. That's time pressure to ensure that you're playing at X time and plan the rest of your life around it. WoW is the most demanding game that i can name in terms of schedule pressure, not just the amount of hours per week but the way that you MUST do things at certain times otherwise you won't be able to do them properly. Investing 25 or 50 hours a week isn't enough, if you do it at the wrong times of day and spread it out wrongly throughout the week and month then your character progression will go to shit and you're completely wasting your time compared to somebody else that plays a lot less (at the right hours) to accomplish similar things. And if you don't do them properly.. now you're behind and everybody else has advantages over you.
I guess we have very different definitions of what doing well is then. And again I disagree quite strongly with this sentiment but lets just leave it at that.
This was certainly the case when I quit back in Cata and had been upto that point. As a casual player now I dont feel compelled to do any of those things and I like to think Im doing quite "well"
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I mythic raided for most of Legion while playing less than 10 hours / week (clearing the raid or being at last boss when next raid opened).
You dont need to min/max everything perfectly to play the game, that is personal choice.
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On November 10 2018 13:21 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Thats you feeling pressure though. You dont have to feel pressure to do things. You do if you want to do them well, like an hour of playing at X time is worth twice as much as an hour of playing at Y time. That's time pressure to ensure that you're playing at X time and plan the rest of your life around it. WoW is the most demanding game that i can name in terms of schedule pressure, not just the amount of hours per week but the way that you MUST do things at certain times otherwise you won't be able to do them properly. Investing 25 or 50 hours a week isn't enough, if you do it at the wrong times of day and spread it out wrongly throughout the week and month then your character progression will go to shit and you're completely wasting your time compared to somebody else that plays a lot less (at the right hours) to accomplish similar things. And if you don't do them properly.. now you're behind and everybody else has advantages over you. Most of the content is built this way - mission tables to WQ's with despawns ranging from a few hours to 24 hours and spawn times ranging across the day and night, m+ where groups are primarily active at EU day-shift peak times and on the right affixes, M raids which lock you into playing at consistent times of day and consistent days, 3-7 day cycles on some other misc stuff which are totally reasonable in isolation but adding to the list of time stressors. --- WoW is one of those games where trying to M raid on a schedule, do m+ regularly and keep up on gear/rep and general stuff completely shut down the rest of my life because i just couldn't plan around the particular type of hours that it demanded even though the amount of hours itself was doable without too much trouble. There are some others where i can play 50 hours out of a 178 hour window and don't have to cancel, reschedule or mould any other activities - i just play and walk away whenever, for however long and as often as i want knowing that i can log in at some other point and i haven't lost anything of huge importance as long as the amount of hours per month is unchanged. In some games you can drop them at 3am or 3pm on consecutive days and it doesn't really matter at all, at least for many of the important activities in them. Several of the games that i'm thinking of there partially accomplish that by having worldwide playerbases - i play with both EU and US folks regularly in those games but in WoW i'm forced to conform to EU day-shift peak times for most of the relevant gameplay or go home basically. There are some good reasons to structure a game like this (although i think it's taken to a ridiculous extreme at times) but one of the main downsides is that it makes it a nightmare of a game if you're not getting much out of it. If you're framing a large portion of your life around a hobby then it has to be highly enjoyable to really justify that! You have high standards to what it looks like when something is done well. That will definitely affect how you enjoy this game.
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Hello TL,
After reading tons of stuff i fail to understand what i'm doing wrong. I play frost mage casually (so less than 10hour a week), cleared Uldir NM & HM and 1/8MM (Guild raid).
The thing is. I'm really not in the high ups as a dps. I parse green/blue most of the time unless i don't know the fight really well (Ghuun for exemple). There's only one other mage in the guild and... he is not really good (meaning he doesn't know to shatter) and i'm always in front of him in the ranks (but that will change when i explain him the shatter because he's not that far from me and shatter deal a lot of damage)
So... Here are some logs
https://www.wipefest.net/character/daerie/khaz-modan/eu (just don't look at Taloc please... shimmer kill me a lot) but for some bosses that are tank and spank (like fetid) i think i should be higher (like... a lot) so can someone give some adivce ?
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Best advice i can give since i've never touched mage is to go to the mage discord, they almost certainly have people willing to go through your logs and give you a breakdown of what's wrong
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On November 10 2018 19:29 FFW_Rude wrote:Hello TL, After reading tons of stuff i fail to understand what i'm doing wrong. I play frost mage casually (so less than 10hour a week), cleared Uldir NM & HM and 1/8MM (Guild raid). The thing is. I'm really not in the high ups as a dps. I parse green/blue most of the time unless i don't know the fight really well (Ghuun for exemple). There's only one other mage in the guild and... he is not really good (meaning he doesn't know to shatter) and i'm always in front of him in the ranks (but that will change when i explain him the shatter because he's not that far from me and shatter deal a lot of damage) So... Here are some logs https://www.wipefest.net/character/daerie/khaz-modan/eu (just don't look at Taloc please... shimmer kill me a lot) but for some bosses that are tank and spank (like fetid) i think i should be higher (like... a lot) so can someone give some adivce ?
A lot of the fights I feel at the present time are timing cooldowns on the right moments if you're trying to time a parse to look good, if its a farm fight purposely saving stuff to give you a better end time number is the way to go imo. fetid is an odd one since i can shine on it when i played arms but do pretty poorly on warlock, different times for the abilities and all i think.
On November 10 2018 15:26 Redox wrote: I mythic raided for most of Legion while playing less than 10 hours / week (clearing the raid or being at last boss when next raid opened).
You dont need to min/max everything perfectly to play the game, that is personal choice.
and yeah you can do most of the game without min/max and be completely fine, trying to do everything in the game then saying its too much and planning your life around wow isnt a way to go and is pretty dumb imo. i go out and do a few world quests for the emisarry and get some rep/ap once in a while and i dont even log in that often and the people who are hardcore farming arent super ahead of me to the point they beat me in bosses or get super rewarded for it(hint they dont and i dont play nearly as much as them) for the most part ill try to get a neck level a week do 1 m+ then raidlog and do just fine no need to build my life around it
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United Kingdom20159 Posts
Really i don't see the point of doing the hardest content (which is actually hard) without trying to min/max yourself. The game was designed with all kinds of incentives to play and improve your performance, it's not like you can raid log without severely screwing over your potential even if you're the best player in the world. The schedule-locked group content is also the most demanding part in terms of schedule pressure
for the most part ill try to get a neck level a week
The math guarantees you a neck level per week
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On November 10 2018 13:21 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Thats you feeling pressure though. You dont have to feel pressure to do things. You do if you want to do them well, like an hour of playing at X time is worth twice as much as an hour of playing at Y time. That's time pressure to ensure that you're playing at X time and plan the rest of your life around it. WoW is the most demanding game that i can name in terms of schedule pressure, not just the amount of hours per week but the way that you MUST do things at certain times otherwise you won't be able to do them properly. Investing 25 or 50 hours a week isn't enough, if you do it at the wrong times of day and spread it out wrongly throughout the week and month then your character progression will go to shit and you're completely wasting your time compared to somebody else that plays a lot less (at the right hours) to accomplish similar things. And if you don't do them properly.. now you're behind and everybody else has advantages over you. Most of the content is built this way - mission tables to WQ's with despawns ranging from a few hours to 24 hours and spawn times ranging across the day and night, m+ where groups are primarily active at EU day-shift peak times and on the right affixes, M raids which lock you into playing at consistent times of day and consistent days, 3-7 day cycles on some other misc stuff which are totally reasonable in isolation but adding to the list of time stressors. --- WoW is one of those games where trying to M raid on a schedule, do m+ regularly and keep up on gear/rep and general stuff completely shut down the rest of my life because i just couldn't plan around the particular type of hours that it demanded even though the amount of hours itself was doable without too much trouble. There are some others where i can play 50 hours out of a 178 hour window and don't have to cancel, reschedule or mould any other activities - i just play and walk away whenever, for however long and as often as i want knowing that i can log in at some other point and i haven't lost anything of huge importance as long as the amount of hours per month is unchanged. In some games you can drop them at 3am or 3pm on consecutive days and it doesn't really matter at all, at least for many of the important activities in them. Several of the games that i'm thinking of there partially accomplish that by having worldwide playerbases - i play with both EU and US folks regularly in those games but in WoW i'm forced to conform to EU day-shift peak times for most of the relevant gameplay or go home basically. There are some good reasons to structure a game like this (although i think it's taken to a ridiculous extreme at times) but one of the main downsides is that it makes it a nightmare of a game if you're not getting much out of it. If you're framing a large portion of your life around a hobby then it has to be highly enjoyable to really justify that! I play ~3.5 hours raiding on Thursday and Tuesday(19.45 to 23.00). A little longer on Tuesday cause I do a M+ with those who havn't done it yet (or is willing to come along) on Tuesday after the raid. That's the only commitment I have to WoW. If I want to play more I can. If I don't want to I don't. And that has gotten me to kill M Fetid last Tuesday so we're just starting on M Zul.
Maybe I have gotten lucky with guilds, maybe its cause I am a tank and not a dps but I have played a similar schedule in half a dozen guilds since WotLK. Go pretty hard when content releases and then just raid log when I run out of things I like doing outside of raiding.
EDIT: Having to min/max is a complete fallacy. You didn't need to grind AP for days during Legion, you don't need to farm Neck levels now to raid and clear Mythic in time for curve. Its no surprise to me you burn out if you believe you have to.
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United Kingdom20159 Posts
That's around world 2000, i wouldn't commit myself to that time without getting at least within 1k personally because i'd hate to schedule lock myself for 5 months of evenings (the most painful tradeoff of playing actively and somewhat competitively) and then not even make cutting edge
I wouldn't describe it as burnout either, i've avoided burnout quite well by playing more/less at times and taking outright breaks for most of tiers from schedule locked raiding. It's just that the amount of schedule pressure to sit in a 500-1k guild is far enough outside the realm of what i'd find to be worth it given the enjoyment i'd get from doing so that i can't see it falling back into range for at least Uldir and probably BOD. That's largely a personal thing, a lot of people aren't bothered to commit 2-4 evenings a week every week and be there at a certain time but it's difficult for me to do so for some personal reasons and needs to be well justified.
anyway i'm not here to have a pages long argument about stuff, that's just how the game feels to me compared to some other games
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Thanks for your answer. I will try that because if feel stuck.
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On November 10 2018 12:22 HOLUP wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2018 11:41 {ToT}ColmA wrote:i dont know whats to like about uldir - the boss fights are dogshit m+ are bugged as fuck and kill my fun - there is nothing in wow that is fun right now for me - i am logging in 1 per week to reclear (for whatever reason i dont know) and thats it. cant even do ranks cuz allstar has gone to shit - why kihra is not removing ghuun i dont know - at least he realized zul was a shitshow And you are still paying. Damn you are dense. Why would you waste time in WoW when you could spend that in Fortnite? And you still spend time hating on the game you hate after its been out for month. What is it with people keep on doing that? How do people do Mythic+ progress when its unplayable bugged?
quite the people person u are ~~
still playing cuz of people i played with for a long time (6yish now)
and that u recommend fortnite speaks volumes to me :D
m+ is annoying and i dont know if u know but playing keys in 18-19 range we certainly do struggle to do stuff like waycrest when 5 mobs come throu the wall or tol dagor at the cannon part and still giggle and shit cuz its all so much fun O.o
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United Kingdom20159 Posts
On November 10 2018 22:03 {ToT}ColmA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2018 12:22 HOLUP wrote:On November 10 2018 11:41 {ToT}ColmA wrote:i dont know whats to like about uldir - the boss fights are dogshit m+ are bugged as fuck and kill my fun - there is nothing in wow that is fun right now for me - i am logging in 1 per week to reclear (for whatever reason i dont know) and thats it. cant even do ranks cuz allstar has gone to shit - why kihra is not removing ghuun i dont know - at least he realized zul was a shitshow And you are still paying. Damn you are dense. Why would you waste time in WoW when you could spend that in Fortnite? And you still spend time hating on the game you hate after its been out for month. What is it with people keep on doing that? How do people do Mythic+ progress when its unplayable bugged? quite the people person u are ~~ still playing cuz of people i played with for a long time (6yish now) and that u recommend fortnite speaks volumes to me :D m+ is annoying and i dont know if u know but playing keys in 18-19 range we certainly do struggle to do stuff like waycrest when 5 mobs come throu the wall or tol dagor at the cannon part and still giggle and shit cuz its all so much fun O.o
Maybe they won't need a fourth ban
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Finding a guild for Cutting Edge progress that doesn't ask for too much raid time but still clears pretty fast so you're not stuck being in progress all the time is probably one of the toughest thing about raiding that level.
There's a reason we get so many applys in our top100 4 nights only guild.
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They fixed the waycrest floor pulling during the invitational and for the most part you can play around it because it happens in one specific spot (courtyard). The cannons can shoot through the walls in TD so dont shoot at the wall.
I'm not willing to raid in a guild that isn't top 100 and raids less than 9 hours a week at this point. Just too much of a time commitment to justify on a game.
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On November 11 2018 00:40 Noocta wrote: Finding a guild for Cutting Edge progress that doesn't ask for too much raid time but still clears pretty fast so you're not stuck being in progress all the time is probably one of the toughest thing about raiding that level.
There's a reason we get so many applys in our top100 4 nights only guild.
4 nights is already too much for most people though. Granted you are in progress mode much shorter and actually might end up playing overall less.
Back when we went 7 days post release and raced for top 30-40 wewould be done in 3 odd weeks and then turn into raid loggers, but then you played ALOT those 3-4 weeks and essentially stopped doing everything else. But then you had stuff like Mu'ru that was just so brutal.
+ Show Spoiler [personal experience] +I think the schedule my legion guild was on (and i still have alts sitting there) is pretty healthy 3 nights world 160 something this tier and they generally float around the 100-200 range. They are all great people 0 toxicity. A fair amount, but not unlimited of patience for mistakes. No alt requirements, + Show Spoiler +(although there are some more active players that do maintian alts that can be useful) if I wanted to raid and there was space available I would go straight back. But I have a very busy work/life schedule and sometimes I just came home so tired I didnt want to commit for 3-4 hours to focusing so hard and alot of people have that problem. I wasnt planning my life around it, as much as Cyro seems to think is neccessary. But the comittment was still tiring enough. But thats personal to my situation. Alot of people based on how theyre lives/schedules are can do it quite easily.
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United Kingdom20159 Posts
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49039 Posts
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