The Korean Starcraft II and Warcraft III clan WeRRa will disband following allegations from one of its underage members that he was sexually molested by the clan leader and manager. 즐겨찢기/LoveRip posted a detailed account on the Korean SC II website PlayXP, followed by the departure of several prominent members of the WeRRa clan.
The vice-clan master, CellaWerra soon made it official that at least the Starcraft II portion of the clan was to disband, with its former members to seek membership in other SC II teams or clans. He neither confirmed nor denied the incident. No charges that we know of have been filed as of yet, nor has GundamWerra, the accused ex-manager, made a statement.
Update: CellaWeRRa has announced that the WeRRa clan will disband. The following is a translation of his post on PlayXP.
The clan was de facto disbanded, and now it's official.
In our Warcraft division, HeadWerra and Haha Hyung are organizing the remaining members. They are considering making a new non-competitive clan, or continuing the WeRRa tradition as a smaller, more streamlined clan. They've spent so much time in WeRRa, so thinking about having to start anew with something else.... It would be hard to adjust, so they're thinking hard about it.
I didn't demand the truth from Gundam when I met him today. I told him to follow his conscience and apologize if he did anything wrong... and I told him all of the responsibility lies with him, so he should try his best to make things right. Then I told him not to hate his messed up life, and to care for himself... without getting any stupid ideas.
Like he should have cared for other people too. Right now, the Stacraft II members of the clan have mostly left, and put in applications to other teams or clans. Vestige is preparing a new clan for the guys who don't really know what to do at the moment. I hope the ones going to new places can adjust well.
Alongside them, I'm wandering without a home. I have no idea what to do. I apologize for writing some personal stuff in an official notice. This was CellaWerra, vice clan master of WeRRA, teary eyed and signing off. For all our faults, thank you for the interest you had in Starcraft II Werra.
Original Post
I know the other threads were closed, and i hope i'm not stepping out of line. I'm not sure what the mods meant by "real story", and i had the translations done, so I thought I might as well post this. mods please close the thread if necessary, and my apologies beforehand if it is.
For those of you who haven't heard, it seems as though members of the WeRRa clan are leaving the clan. 10 members, including 즐겨찢기.WeRRa, AugustWeRRa, and RainWeRRa have left the clan as of 10:28PM KST of Saturday the 23rd. Apparently, GundamWeRRa molested 즐겨찢기.WeRRa at his house, which lead to 즐겨찢기WeRRa (aka LoveRipWeRRa) leaving the clan, which, in turn, lead to the others leaving. LoveRipWeRRa (즐겨찢기WeRRa) put up a post on PlayXp.com describing the incident. It's possible none of this is true and the hundreds of blog posts that have come up since the incident are lying, but this doesn't seem likely.
isclaimer* I am only translating the post originally posted by 즐겨찢기.WeRRa on PlayXP. Not sure if there's an official story out yet, and I couldn't find any story from Gundam's point of view. I am not implying it is true or false. I take responsibility only for translating a pre-existing post. That aside, the translation is as legit as it can possibly get.
One last thing to mention is that the original post in Korean, in itself, is somewhat incoherent and full of (minor) grammatical mistakes, but I don't think it's too big of an issue..
here's the money translation:
Hi. This was being talked about for a little while
"GundamWeRRa" is the reason why I left the WeRRa clan. As you already know, GundamWeRRa is the leader and coach of the WeRRa clan. He is also the one who scouted me for the clan. mod edit: this is not the BW progamer V-Gundam, in case people are wondering!
The incident started on Friday, October 22. It was the day of PhoenixWeRRa's GSL game. I got a call from Gundam. He suggested we go root for Phoenix, then go to his house afterward where he could help me practice. After watching up to the 4th GSL matchup on Friday, we took the subway to Gundam's house. On the way to his house, he asked me for my trust and confidence, telling me how he brought up Chae-Ho Chang (Moon), Jun Park (Lyn) Ensnare, Zenio, etc, etc. It was a bit odd..
We arrived at Gundam's house. His mother was there, he and I went to his room. He made light contact with me, putting his head on my lap and his arm around my shoulders. It wass a little gross, and I started getting a little suspicious..
I tried to leave the room in order to change my clothes, but he demanded that I change in his room. That's when I got the feeling: "I'd better not sleep [tonight]"
So I played [SC2] until the morning (you can see this if you look at the match history of "즐겨찢기"). When morning came, Gundam woke up and suggested that I lie down and rest if I was tired. I lied down and dozed off. I got a strange feeling, and woke up to find Gundam pulling down my fly.
Shocked, I asked him, "what are you doing?" He answered, "Your fly was open, and I was afraid you would think I had opened it. So I was trying to zip it back up. Go back to sleep." So I lied back down for about 10 minutes, then asked him if he was gay.
He insisted it was a misunderstanding; he said his work was in meeting (and probably negotiating) with other people, so he definitely wasn't.
I believed him....
But when I put the mouse cursor on the Gom player to watch some vods, the playlist contained videos related to homosexuality. So I asked Gundam for us to leave. When we were outside, I asked him in tears: Why did you scout me? Didn't you scout me into the team because you saw a future in me?
He said yes, but I had already lost trust in him. He also told me that he was not gay, but bi.
I cried in the taxi, and I cried when I got home.
Even now, I feel like crying thinking about it. I'm only 15, and I even dropped out of high school to join the team. I am writing this because cannot stand the feeling of betrayal. My apologies to other members of WeRRa who had nothing to do with this.
Protip: put in a summary at the top, at the very least. And make the thread title something like "WeRRa member leaves clan" or whatever it is that your post is about.
So, did the other weRRa team mates leave because of this? how old is Gundam? I appropriate your posts btw. Even if this thread gets locked don't look down on yourself for getting the thread locked. Many many people appreciate it.
From what I know, LoveRipWeRRa (the other werra.. finally found out his english name) is 15 years old (a minor), and GundamWeRRa is definitely way older. At the least, he is not a minor.
There actually is a good chance this is going to be in the evening news here tonight.
fucking hell, man this translation makes it break my heart.. I just knew for a fact that the first translation was a little messed up due to the wording but this shows that the situation is fucked up....
I really feel sorry for him, I hope the team gets their shit together and find a new manager.
is it not possible for him to re-enter high school once he puts this past him? probably are some really difficult hoops to jump through though since it is Korea.... well any way you slice it, dropping out of high school to do progaming is not a wise move in itself.
@ICanFlyLow I feel like that is out of line. The big issue here is NOT gundamwerra's sexuality, whether he is G/B/T/Q/Confused whatever. What is wrong here is the fact that he allegedly molested a minor.
@251 I totally agree with you. There are ways, from what I am aware, though. If he can't get into another high school (although he should be able to, unless i'm mistaken), there are 대안학교 and 검정고시, which are basically independent high schools and exams that give you credit for graduation, respectively, but neither option is any better than graduating an actual high school.
all in all, assuming his accusations are truthful, man it's gotta suck to be in LoveRipWeRRa's position right now.
On October 24 2010 06:34 unbal3 wrote: From what I know, LoveRipWeRRa (the other werra.. finally found out his english name) is 15 years old (a minor), and GundamWeRRa is definitely way older. At the least, he is not a minor.
There actually is a good chance this is going to be in the evening news here tonight.
If it is, can you give us a summary? This whole thing seems so messed up. Also, are there any posts by werra members on this issue (outside of TL that is)?
On October 24 2010 06:37 unbal3 wrote: @ICanFlyLow I feel like that is out of line. The big issue here is NOT gundamwerra's sexuality, whether he is G/B/T/Q/Confused whatever. What is wrong here is the fact that he allegedly molested a minor.
I agree with what you said... but I'm confused about Q...
I really hope this does not lead to any rash rash decisions by the parties affected. This was a big blow to many peoples reputations, there families, and most importantly their honor. I hoped that this was just a misunderstanding, but no, this seems too real, and quite disgusting. the players that were not directly affected will probably move on and do great things with other teams, but I feel they will always have a sinking feeling when they think about WeRRa. What gundam did sickens me, and although for moralities sake I would not wish for him to pull an hero. But I've seen this happen quite often when this particular orientation is discovered in korean culture, and when it's brought out with such a disgusting act I kinda see it happening. I really hope LoveRipWeRRa moves on past this like his teammates inevitably will, but I dont see this ever escaping gundam's future life.
Really makes you feel for him, this translation of all others. Oh my gosh, he invested so much into Sc2. He even dropped high school to fully practice. And then he finds out its possible he was just recruited because the manager was gay.
This is just horrible. I hope another team comes up and picks him for their team, even if he isn't on par. I mean, what's going to happen to him?
On October 24 2010 06:37 unbal3 wrote: @ICanFlyLow I feel like that is out of line. The big issue here is NOT gundamwerra's sexuality, whether he is G/B/T/Q/Confused whatever. What is wrong here is the fact that he allegedly molested a minor.
I agree with what you said... but I'm confused about Q...
if this is true then i think theres nothing wrong with gundam being bi, but he shouldnt recruit 15 years old that gave up their education and then molest them. i just hope loverip can recover from this and continue with a normal life.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
Sometimes i just get so angry.... Also how do you become bi when you're in SNSD's vicinity? Thats just a pathetic joke to try and make me feel a li'l bit better... Poor Loverip..
Can anyone translate the notable Korean netizen responses on PlayXP?
I was curious how Korean would view this situation internally; such a sad story for this young player. I hope LoveRip is able to get all the counseling/help he needs in the future.
On October 24 2010 06:57 CDRdude wrote: So the Gundam mentioned here is the same as the broodwar pro V-Gundam who created the Gundam rush, is that correct?
nope. Different people.
This Gundam came from WCIII werra clan I do believe.
I hate it when things like this happen. Obviously it's bad when people are victimized. It also increases paranoia and homophobia. Hopefully people will realize that if these allegations are true the fact that Gundam is sexually harassing and possibly raping young team members is only conincident with being gay.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
yeah, i googled it before i posted that reply, but i guess what i said leading up to it didn't quite put it in context.
to clarify... i'm not so sure he will take his own life, but bad things are waiting for him for sure. i wouldn't be surprised if he did, but i'm not sure he will.
All the players should leave imo. WeRRa is just a clan with no big sponsors, right? Not like the players are binded by a contract since a lot of players already left. Hopefully, Cella leaves...
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
I already posted in the other thread, been thinking about it more, and this could really affect competitive starcraft in korea. We'll probably see less kids who are allowed by their parents to play sc professionally. Which would probably mean finding less people like Flash who started playing sc professionally at 15 (16 korean) and leveling up their game.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
A sad and disturbing story, and I have to echo the sentiments expressed earlier in the thread in hoping that certain people don't overly correlate his sexual orientation to the sexual exploitation. If these allegations are true, best of luck to all of those affected.
I can't help but be reminded of 'Spike', the former manager of the (now disbanded) Green Berets counterstrike team, being caught several years ago grooming young boys/teens and requesting explicit photographs from them. + Show Spoiler +
For those who don't know the story, Spike used his position as manager to contact young men and try to convince them to send nude pictures of themselves in exchange for positions of 'power' within the organisation. The original story can be read on GotFrag here, as well as the community reaction. 'Spike' was caught in possession of child pornography while out on bail almost one year later.
On October 24 2010 07:19 Pete! wrote: A sad and disturbing story, and I have to echo the sentiments expressed earlier in the thread in hoping that certain people don't overly correlate his sexual orientation to the sexual exploitation. If these allegations are true, best of luck to all of those affected.
I can't help but be reminded of 'Spike', the former manager of the (now disbanded) Green Berets counterstrike team, being caught several years ago grooming young boys/teens and requesting explicit photographs from them. + Show Spoiler +
For those who don't know the story, Spike used his position as manager to contact young men and try to convince them to send nude pictures of themselves in exchange for positions of 'power' within the organisation. The original story can be read on GotFrag here, as well as the community reaction. 'Spike' was caught in possession of child pornography while out on bail almost one year later.
Oh yeah I remember that story, That was a pretty big blow to the cs community.
On October 24 2010 07:19 Pete! wrote: A sad and disturbing story, and I have to echo the sentiments expressed earlier in the thread in hoping that certain people don't overly correlate his sexual orientation to the sexual exploitation. If these allegations are true, best of luck to all of those affected.
I can't help but be reminded of 'Spike', the former manager of the (now disbanded) Green Berets counterstrike team, being caught several years ago grooming young boys/teens and requesting explicit photographs from them. + Show Spoiler +
For those who don't know the story, Spike used his position as manager to contact young men and try to convince them to send nude pictures of themselves in exchange for positions of 'power' within the organisation. The original story can be read on GotFrag here, as well as the community reaction. 'Spike' was caught in possession of child pornography while out on bail almost one year later.
I was going to post about [GB]Spike as well. It was the first thing I thought of when I heard about this story.
disgusting how some people act like they so sad now and how their view of the world is destroyed. if this would not be starcraft related most people would give a shit about it. this false caring makes me sick. hate me for it.
ontopic: i am verry sorry for this kid. very smart to make it public.
Really sad for Cella. Let's just hope this doesn't have a big impact on his future both private and as a gamer. Don't want to se him quit starcraft, specially since he has left so much to make it as a progamer. I watch his stream all the time, and he really seems like a great guy and a talented player. Let's hope he finds another team, or the team will continue with new management. It would be epic if he ended up in teamliquid.
off topic; I didn't know he was that young, he speaks really good english. Does he have family in America or something?
This really sucks, sexual assault of any kind is a terrible crime and it's sad to see it disrupt the starcraft pro gaming community as well. WERRA is a huge clan and it would be best of them to back LoveRipWerra by pursuing legal charges against gundam.
With that being said...
hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your kids, hide your wife.
On October 24 2010 07:39 mechanica wrote: This really sucks, sexual assault of any kind is a terrible crime and it's sad to see it disrupt the starcraft pro gaming community as well. WERRA is a huge clan and it would be best of them to back LoveRipWerra by pursuing legal charges against gundam.
With that being said...
hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your kids, hide your wife.
If all of those players have left already then WeRRa as it is right now is pretty much gone there's no real way to recover from that unless they reform without said member of the organization. The name WeRRa took a pretty big hit even if this turns out to be untrue it will always be isnt that the team where they manager...
So hopefully the players can pull together and reform somehow because WeRRa was making really big strides and doing well sad to see them fall apart cuz of something like this.
On October 24 2010 07:39 blae000 wrote: Really sad for Cella. Let's just hope this doesn't have a big impact on his future both private and as a gamer. Don't want to se him quit starcraft, specially since he has left so much to make it as a progamer. I watch his stream all the time, and he really seems like a great guy and a talented player. Let's hope he finds another team, or the team will continue with new management. It would be epic if he ended up in teamliquid.
off topic; I didn't know he was that young, he speaks really good english. Does he have family in America or something?
You should edit this post, it wasn't Cella involved. It was loveripwerra, a newly scouted member. This is really messed up stuff, I don't know how things will go for WeRRa now...
Man, gotta feel bad for this kid. He quits his high school to pursue a promising career (something I can personally empathize with) only to find he might have just been targeted by a predator all along?
And, I mean, where is his career going to go from here? Not only is he going to have to get over this enormous stumbling block to his confidence and playing ability, but are other clans going to want to touch him with all the obvious political and social baggage that's going to come with him? How is his life going to proceed from here?
Very saddening, it's disheartening to see that even a computer game community cannot be free of such evil.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
What on earth are you talking about? Where on earth do you get that Koreans see killing yourself as a way to regain honor? Korean celebrities that kill themselves often do so either because of stress or their inability to cope with some sort of humiliation. It has nothing to do with honor.
On October 24 2010 08:08 MusiK wrote: I think Gundam should leave. WeRRa is a great team, and I would hate for a team to disband just because of one idiot.
The bad rep that this guy created is disgraceful... hopefully the team can move on
The problem is hte damage is done, the name WeRRa is associated with this now -.-; that's why it sucks so bad for the other players. Especially if it hits evening news like some koreans said it might.
he played "59"games at that night even he lose 90% of games but he didn't quit to play.. danm.. i can feel how scared he was.. He's only 15yrs old boy and he was in same room with adult who's trying to rape him. i heard 즐겨찟기 is going to sue gundam now hope that thing goes well for him
On October 24 2010 08:12 Thrill wrote: Just re-watched his Ro64 game, terrible story this. I'm really impressed that he's stepping forward about it though.
What tournament is this? I don't think I have seen him play or listed for any tournaments.
On October 24 2010 08:12 Thrill wrote: Just re-watched his Ro64 game, terrible story this. I'm really impressed that he's stepping forward about it though.
What tournament is this? I don't think I have seen him play or listed for any tournaments.
wow, this sucks. Hope Gundam got sued the hell out of him. There is no problem with Gundam.werra being gay or whatever but molest a 15 years old kid is just wrong. I have a feeling that there are more victims of him that was too afraid/embarrassed to speak out, but they may after this. Very brave move from Loverip that he actually post this on PlayXP
Really sorry for this kid and the other werra players who needs to find a new clan. Good luck in the future, all of you. (Especially Cella, Phoenix and Soju)
Is there any comments by netizens? Does they believe this at all or are they sorry aswell?
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
Korea isn't fucking Japan.
Why are people (who are not from Korea and I doubt know anything about the culture) being so stubborn about this? From what I've read from the previous quoted post as well as another SOUTH KOREAN post, this is in fact the way the Korean culture looks at this kinda of thing. I personally cannot attest to this as I know next to nothing about Korea, but it seems these guys do so I would hear them out. However, it would be nice to get some clarification from someone who is from Korea because this is an important point.
Anyways, to be more on topic, as horrible as this is it is great that LoveRipWeRRa came out with this because chances are he was not the first one, so this will open the doors for more WeRRa (or non WeRRa members possibly) to come forward as well. Incredible bravery and courage by LoveRipWeRRa and I really wish him and anyone else involved the best of luck. Hopefully Gundam gets what he deserves (prison time) and turns over a new leaf in the future.
On October 24 2010 09:30 wringer wrote: This is part of the text in the Werra clan site introduction page.
(웨라클랜)저희 클랜은 여자를 받을 필요가 없어서 받지 않습니다. 2달에 한번씩 모텔에 모여 친목을 다지며 다 같이 잡니다.
Translation :
(Werra Clan) Our clan does not need women and will not accept any. We meet up every 2 months in a motel, have a good time, and sleep altogether.
LOL... This was most likely written by the clan manager Gundam, and alone is a strong evidence that Gundam is a pedo.
Wow, Werra didn't need or accept women? My respect for all Werra members just disappeared; they would join a clan that is explicitly misogynist.
I'm not sure are you joking or not ( I think you are..), but eitherway;
Somehow i have a a picture in my mind that even oGs wouldn't take women in their clan. I dont know would it affect to the practice or do they think women Sc2 players doesn't have the skill for this. But don't take this as straight fact. Just having some kind of picture in my mind about this,
On October 24 2010 08:19 clide wrote: he played "59"games at that night even he lose 90% of games but he didn't quit to play.. danm.. i can feel how scared he was.. He's only 15yrs old boy and he was in same room with adult who's trying to rape him. i heard 즐겨찟기 is going to sue gundam now hope that thing goes well for him
woahhh is this the real clide?
also i don't think he'll need to sue gundam.. gundam will get charged.
Wow, Werra didn't need or accept women? My respect for all Werra members just disappeared; they would join a clan that is explicitly misogynist.
Many famous gaming clans in the history of esports tend to shun female members, whether for the right or wrong reasons. In a mainly male community, women tend to cause drama. However, none of these clans had managers that liked to molest young boys. How you can get upset about sexism in a thread discussing something far worse is beyond me.
if you have a woman in your team the players wont be able to concentrate 100%. if you want to become the best at progaming you need to focus just on progaming, so a good manager will eliminate everything that may draw the players attention. as far as i know tossgirl doesnt live with STX as well. in every competitive environment a woman may weaken the performance. you know, a man is a man.
i dont think its good to talk bad about gundam if you didnt even hear his part of the story. maybe he even has a disorder that makes it impossible for him to stay in a room with a teenager or whatever. his life should be ruined now.
Wow, Werra didn't need or accept women? My respect for all Werra members just disappeared; they would join a clan that is explicitly misogynist.
Many famous gaming clans in the history of esports tend to shun female members, whether for the right or wrong reasons. In a mainly male community, women tend to cause drama. However, none of these clans had managers that liked to molest young boys. How you can get upset about sexism in a thread discussing something far worse is beyond me.
Criticizing Werra for a policy of misogyny does not somehow negate or even dilute criticism of the manager for attempted/committed rape. They two issues are connected and cannot be analyzed in a vacuum.
On October 24 2010 09:57 Zealotdriver wrote: They two issues are connected and cannot be analyzed in a vacuum.
You wanna provide an argument as to why this is? Sexism is widespread in Esports. Boy molestation to my knowledge (hopefully) isn't. He commited a crime, simple as that. Sexism is completely different issue.
It's a crappy translation from Chrome, but it's the best we'll get for now: + Show Spoiler +
For this to happen cuz I regret what happens.
Gundam personally thought that the boy band.
Expressed its position on the mouth Gundam taking this as far Detractors aside jeopgetseupnida By geyinya GUNDAM.
Because it do not know about.
And spoke to gyeongdeok jeulgyeojjitgi Gundam was talking so ran it. Ipjangman of one person is too keunmunjegido. But two gyeongdeok unconditional and does not think you're lying. Gyeongdeok two and there's no reason to do that.
I have attached werakeulraene brother in the clan, friends are good brother
Weraga reviled iliteumyeon popping aggro was getting ahead of all that ..
This is the work of La Vina warehouse blow to the reputation of another clan iphineunge matter for individuals, not cuz of the day from the strike will not shield.
First, the majority of the remaining gyeongdeok COMPRISING werakeulraenwondeulgwa're talking.
From what it seems, they're trying to work through it...will wait for a better translation though...
On October 24 2010 11:23 RaptorZ wrote: It's a crappy translation from Chrome, but it's the best we'll get for now: + Show Spoiler +
For this to happen cuz I regret what happens.
Gundam personally thought that the boy band.
Expressed its position on the mouth Gundam taking this as far Detractors aside jeopgetseupnida By geyinya GUNDAM.
Because it do not know about.
And spoke to gyeongdeok jeulgyeojjitgi Gundam was talking so ran it. Ipjangman of one person is too keunmunjegido. But two gyeongdeok unconditional and does not think you're lying. Gyeongdeok two and there's no reason to do that.
I have attached werakeulraene brother in the clan, friends are good brother
Weraga reviled iliteumyeon popping aggro was getting ahead of all that ..
This is the work of La Vina warehouse blow to the reputation of another clan iphineunge matter for individuals, not cuz of the day from the strike will not shield.
First, the majority of the remaining gyeongdeok COMPRISING werakeulraenwondeulgwa're talking.
From what it seems, they're trying to work through it...will wait for a better translation though...
what the fuck, so some one is sabotaging them? this clan La Vina or google translators is terrible I suppose.. will wait for drama to unfold
keep us updated please, upsetting story i really wanna see how every thing pans out hope kid gets to play on a team and can get past this assuming the post is true.
If another team will take him right now, I think he'll be fine. Bottom line - does he have talent or was he targeted for "grooming" by Gundam.werra?? If he has talent, another team will take him up. Hopefully he doesn't give up on both legally pursuing Gundam.Werra, or on progaming if he has talent.
The worse case scenario is that he's not a good player, just had a pretty face that Gundam found desirable...
On October 24 2010 11:47 nihoh wrote: If another team will take him right now, I think he'll be fine. Bottom line - does he have talent or was he targeted for "grooming" by Gundam.werra?? If he has talent, another team will take him up. Hopefully he doesn't give up on both legally pursuing Gundam.Werra, or on progaming if he has talent.
He made it into the GSL ro64, so he's definately not untalented.
On October 24 2010 11:23 RaptorZ wrote: It's a crappy translation from Chrome, but it's the best we'll get for now: + Show Spoiler +
For this to happen cuz I regret what happens.
Gundam personally thought that the boy band.
Expressed its position on the mouth Gundam taking this as far Detractors aside jeopgetseupnida By geyinya GUNDAM.
Because it do not know about.
And spoke to gyeongdeok jeulgyeojjitgi Gundam was talking so ran it. Ipjangman of one person is too keunmunjegido. But two gyeongdeok unconditional and does not think you're lying. Gyeongdeok two and there's no reason to do that.
I have attached werakeulraene brother in the clan, friends are good brother
Weraga reviled iliteumyeon popping aggro was getting ahead of all that ..
This is the work of La Vina warehouse blow to the reputation of another clan iphineunge matter for individuals, not cuz of the day from the strike will not shield.
First, the majority of the remaining gyeongdeok COMPRISING werakeulraenwondeulgwa're talking.
From what it seems, they're trying to work through it...will wait for a better translation though...
Until a proper translator steps in, here's my version:
Cellawerra: I regret something like this happened. Personally, I thought I was pretty close to Gundam.
Until Gundam tells his side of the story, I won't comment on whether Gundam is gay or bisexual. Because I do not know details about that. Also, I talked with "즐겨찟기 경덕이" and he told me Gundam said the same thing. Even one revelation from a person is a big deal. But it is not for sure 경덕 is lying. There is no way.
For me, I have an attachment to the Werra clan and have friends in the clan I like so I accepted criticism of the clan and stayed but... This is the individual's work, and he did not do it from clan's orders. Now, the remaining clan members are discussing the situation with "경덕"
Holy crap, I feel really bad for this kid (assuming all this is true of course). I hope Gundam gets what he deserves and that LoveRipWerra can get his life back together. I'm sure he's just mentally shattered from the whole thing
So, wait, why exactly were TL admins closing the other threads? Was it because people hadn't gotten to Cella's post and started to see that not everything is completely figured out yet?
On October 24 2010 12:03 Char711 wrote: So, wait, why exactly were TL admins closing the other threads? Was it because people hadn't gotten to Cella's post and started to see that not everything is completely figured out yet?
it had almost turn into a tread where ppl are accusing ppl of being homophobic or accusing that loveripwerra was lying
It's really sad assuming the player doesn't have ulterior motives. (Attention, fame, money from lawsuit, etc.) I'm not saying that's the case, of course, just that if it is, it's pretty awful.
Wow, I'm thankful that the coach didn't rape him. He should be grateful for the fact that he wasn't aggressive or violent. Pretty gross and discusting, but still, there are tons of far worse things that could've happened.
I think that this coach should be sued as now WeRRa has lost a few of it's players and nobody will sponsor it now and nobody will respect it. I hope Cella is fine!
On October 24 2010 12:19 salzini wrote: Oh, there are wrong translation...
MT is not a 'Motel', it's something like friendship conventional trip in korean.
But, No Female but Guys is still weird, because it usualy joining with female mebers...
Only guys in trip is regarded as a 'Joke'
MT is Membership Trip right?
Yep, membership training or membership trip. It's used to sort of strengthen bonds between members/coworkers/colleagues etc. and make everyone more comfortable with each other to improve morale and overall effectiveness of the members and group as a whole.
On October 24 2010 12:47 GrazerRinge wrote: omg...
betting scandal,
activision suing ONG / MBC
then this?
I rather quit this fucking scene then continue to read this crap...i am really sad now T.T
I thought and wished that in pro gaming scene these things will not happen...
Real sports has scandals as well, so it should come as no surprise that things happen in progaming as well.
It happens alot in sports. Not to mention heavy pressure to take preformance enhancing drugs once you get to a certain level. Once you get high up in sports its an ugly, ugly thing.
Until I hear the word from Gundam himself I will keep his sexuality out of discussion.
We still don't know for sure.
I've talked with LoveRipWeRRa (즐겨찢기), and he says Gundam did it (i.e. molested him). We shouldn't be listening to only one side of the story. But I do not think LoveRip is lying. He has no reason to do so.
I personally am very fond of the WeRRa clan and its members; (apparently referring to a specific incident) which is why, even when people were flaming on WeRRa, I stepped up to take the blows..
This is unlike the past incident with MioWeRRa in that the incident occurred on a personal leve, rather than dishonoring the entire clan, so I won't be (sic) shielding werra just yet.
I am currently discussing the matter with LoveRip and other members of the clan.
On October 24 2010 12:03 Char711 wrote: So, wait, why exactly were TL admins closing the other threads? Was it because people hadn't gotten to Cella's post and started to see that not everything is completely figured out yet?
it had almost turn into a tread where ppl are accusing ppl of being homophobic or accusing that loveripwerra was lying
Ah, go figure. I thought TL was beyond that . Mind you, TL as a forum is way better than pretty much everywhere else that I've been. I guess it's more the topics that are just so . . . polarizing . . . no, perhaps . . . inclined to the politically correct?
Wow, this REALLY sucks. Un fucking believable. Its stuff like this that makes people think korean gamers are crazy. I'm 15 and was/is leader of a team and if something like this happened to me I would be mentally affected pretty bad.. wow.
On October 24 2010 12:47 GrazerRinge wrote: omg...
betting scandal,
activision suing ONG / MBC
then this?
I rather quit this fucking scene then continue to read this crap...i am really sad now T.T
I thought and wished that in pro gaming scene these things will not happen...
this has nothing to do with you....
you think its the first day we see big companies sue each other? its the first time we've seen pedo/bi/gays molest 15 year olds?
honestly, wake up, this is the REAL world.
it feels quite different when it's people you thought you knew well from the starcraft community. this guy was his manager, do you think he expected anything like this? it's a complete blow to his life, he gave up his education to join a team where the manager molests him.
Until I hear the word from Gundam himself I will keep his sexuality out of discussion.
We still don't know for sure.
I've talked with LoveRipWeRRa (즐겨찢기), and he says Gundam did it (i.e. molested him). We shouldn't be listening to only one side of the story. But I do not think LoveRip is lying. He has no reason to do so.
I personally am very fond of the WeRRa clan and its members; (apparently referring to a specific incident) which is why, even when people were flaming on WeRRa, I stepped up to take the blows..
This is unlike the past incident with MioWeRRa in that the incident occurred on a personal leve, rather than dishonoring the entire clan, so I won't be (sic) shielding werra just yet.
I am currently discussing the matter with LoveRip and other members of the clan.
also, Gundam said Motel, not MT.
thanks for the translation. if it's true, I feel really bad for the kid, having put his trust and future in gundam, only to have this happen to him. we still need to wait and see what's really going on over there.
and <3 cella, he seems like such a loyal, and in general, outstanding guy
WOW, I can't believe this ! Why would you touch a 15 year old kid and get him traumatized for life. This is totally wrong, he not only scared his life but also ruined his programing career. He had to quit high school. This kid is talented and he touches and ruins his life.
I'm sorry for the Werra team they should regroup and create another team without gundam. This is ridiculous and will hurt e-sports ALOT.
Until I hear the word from Gundam himself I will keep his sexuality out of discussion.
We still don't know for sure.
I've talked with LoveRipWeRRa (즐겨찢기), and he says Gundam did it (i.e. molested him). We shouldn't be listening to only one side of the story. But I do not think LoveRip is lying. He has no reason to do so.
I personally am very fond of the WeRRa clan and its members; (apparently referring to a specific incident) which is why, even when people were flaming on WeRRa, I stepped up to take the blows..
This is unlike the past incident with MioWeRRa in that the incident occurred on a personal leve, rather than dishonoring the entire clan, so I won't be (sic) shielding werra just yet.
I am currently discussing the matter with LoveRip and other members of the clan.
also, Gundam said Motel, not MT.
thanks for the translation. if it's true, I feel really bad for the kid, having put his trust and future in gundam, only to have this happen to him. we still need to wait and see what's really going on over there.
and <3 cella, he seems like such a loyal, and in general, outstanding guy
Everybody thought we knew Gundam well... he treat us really well.. until we heard about that. Anyway...
Ok the guy tried to hit on him in a really unsubtle way, which was inappropriate anyways due to his age but apparently backed off.
That's an awful lot of crying for a zipper. Are people seriously thinking any sane teenager would suffer complete psychological and emotional breakdown because one guy touched a zipper ?
I could understand if he -really- got molested or raped but this over-sensitive "buaaa my life is over" out of proportions melodrama is really... more appalling than "shocking".
On October 24 2010 13:48 MadULol wrote: Ok the guy tried to hit on him in a really unsubtle way, which was inappropriate anyways due to his age but apparently backed off.
That's an awful lot of crying for a zipper. Are people seriously thinking any sane teenager would suffer complete psychological and emotional breakdown because one guy touched a zipper ?
I could understand if he -really- got molested or raped but this over-sensitive "buaaa my life is over" out of proportions melodrama is really... more appalling than "shocking".
Yeah. Makes me wonder about ulterior motives, not that it's not awful if it's true (an abuse of power and all that), but just that it strikes me as a tad odd.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
On October 24 2010 13:48 MadULol wrote: Ok the guy tried to hit on him in a really unsubtle way, which was inappropriate anyways due to his age but apparently backed off.
That's an awful lot of crying for a zipper. Are people seriously thinking any sane teenager would suffer complete psychological and emotional breakdown because one guy touched a zipper ?
I could understand if he -really- got molested or raped but this over-sensitive "buaaa my life is over" out of proportions melodrama is really... more appalling than "shocking".
Right, not a big deal at all... so if you had a 15 year old son and he told you that someone attempted to molest him, would you really just tell him to suck it up and pretend it never happened? If so, you are a sick person.
On October 24 2010 12:47 GrazerRinge wrote: omg...
betting scandal,
activision suing ONG / MBC
then this?
I rather quit this fucking scene then continue to read this crap...i am really sad now T.T
I thought and wished that in pro gaming scene these things will not happen...
this has nothing to do with you....
you think its the first day we see big companies sue each other? its the first time we've seen pedo/bi/gays molest 15 year olds?
honestly, wake up, this is the REAL world.
Sure, it might have nothing to do directly with me. But it's still pretty poor form to shrug off sexual assault because it is "the real world".
Shrug off? I am telling you to just not take it personally. It sucks.but its nothing compared to world wars, holocaust, atomic bomb etc etc, your not going to worry about that every second of your life are you?
On October 24 2010 13:48 MadULol wrote: Ok the guy tried to hit on him in a really unsubtle way, which was inappropriate anyways due to his age but apparently backed off.
That's an awful lot of crying for a zipper. Are people seriously thinking any sane teenager would suffer complete psychological and emotional breakdown because one guy touched a zipper ?
I could understand if he -really- got molested or raped but this over-sensitive "buaaa my life is over" out of proportions melodrama is really... more appalling than "shocking".
This is a 32 year old trying to unzip a 15 year old's pants.
If it were a peer situation (15 year old gay guy + 15 year old striaght guy) where you had a gay friend try to come on to u, you could go like "omg fuck off lol" and probably have a laugh about it afterwards. This is perpetuated by someone twice the kid's age.
On October 24 2010 13:54 holy_war wrote: Right, not a big deal at all... so if you had a 15 year old son and he told you that someone attempted to molest him, would you really just tell him to suck it up and pretend it never happened? If so, you are a sick person.
If I had a 15 years old son, A) I wouldn't have let him trash his school curriculum (as much as I hate it) to become a gamer and B) I have enough sense not to let kids alone with adults I don't trust.
Since the article details that "the mother" was there, she's obviously doing a damn shitty job at parenting...
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
He's certainly confused and scared right now, hence the reaction.
Someone he trusted attempted to take advantage of him, he no longer belongs to a pro-gaming team and because he dropped out of school his future is possibly pretty grim.
Hes' probably also lost a lot of confidence about his ability as a gamer by wondering if the only reason he was put on a team was because of this sicko's attraction.
On October 24 2010 12:47 GrazerRinge wrote: omg...
betting scandal,
activision suing ONG / MBC
then this?
I rather quit this fucking scene then continue to read this crap...i am really sad now T.T
I thought and wished that in pro gaming scene these things will not happen...
this has nothing to do with you....
you think its the first day we see big companies sue each other? its the first time we've seen pedo/bi/gays molest 15 year olds?
honestly, wake up, this is the REAL world.
Sure, it might have nothing to do directly with me. But it's still pretty poor form to shrug off sexual assault because it is "the real world".
Shrug off? I am telling you to just not take it personally. It sucks.but its nothing compared to world wars, holocaust, atomic bomb etc etc, your not going to worry about that every second of your life are you?
No, but i'm not going to tell others what they can or can not sympathise or empathise with.
On October 24 2010 13:54 holy_war wrote: Right, not a big deal at all... so if you had a 15 year old son and he told you that someone attempted to molest him, would you really just tell him to suck it up and pretend it never happened? If so, you are a sick person.
If I had a 15 years old son, A) I wouldn't have let him trash his school curriculum (as much as I hate it) to become a gamer and B) I have enough sense not to let kids alone with adults I don't trust.
Since the article details that "the mother" was there, she's obviously doing a damn shitty job at parenting...
Because Argentina is just as Korea, go check the world, not everything is as it is in South America
On October 24 2010 13:48 MadULol wrote: Ok the guy tried to hit on him in a really unsubtle way, which was inappropriate anyways due to his age but apparently backed off.
That's an awful lot of crying for a zipper. Are people seriously thinking any sane teenager would suffer complete psychological and emotional breakdown because one guy touched a zipper ?
I could understand if he -really- got molested or raped but this over-sensitive "buaaa my life is over" out of proportions melodrama is really... more appalling than "shocking".
I don't think you get it. He quit high school (at the age of 15) in order to fully commit himself to the team and SC2. I'm not totally sure about what things are like in Korea, but I know that here is someone drops out of high school at 15 it is quite difficult to get back on track not to mention how hard of an age 15 can be for most people anyways. As it says in the translation, he feels BETRAYED. He thought he had talent and that was why he was scouted, but now he is completely unsure of himself and now has nothing left since he is out of school and no longer has a team to support him.
Hopefully he has very supportive friends and family.
Even if you are insensitive about it keep it to yourself, there is no reason to post that on this forum. That is very douchey. This is something that greatly affects many peoples life, don't be so quick to say that it is not a big deal.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
Respect for Cella, I mean a lot of people are just jumping on saying OMFG WTF HOW COULD HE. Without considering it might be false, Cella doing the right thing and not standing by him but saying he's waiting to see it's a good move and probably the only way that the WeRRa clan can be salvaged is if they can get the players to do similar.
On October 24 2010 14:00 torm wrote: a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
A 15 years old so scared that instead of trying to reach for help outside/on the net while the guy was sleeping, SPENT HOURS LADDERING ON BATTLE.NET.
Spare me the drama, he might have been somewhat uncomfortable by the other guy's behavior but it seems he perfectly evaluated the risks and LATER had his breakdown because he concocted some big bad scenario in his head and fatigue of the fatigue or the scenario he imagined.
As I read the post, there has been no molestation, but only attempted molestation. I dont think that opening the fly could be considered molestation. However, I dont know what the other members already stated.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
You're pretty narrow-minded if you think that only things that get reported in the news are worth anything. Sure there are kids who people "TRY" to molest every day, does that make it worth any less? People are raped and murdered every day as well, and it doesn't make the news, does that mean it doesn't mean anything?
You're being ignorant, and also an ass if you think that this is a kid being "melodramatic". I've been studying Psychology for 6 years and can tell you, as could almost anyone for that matter, that an incident such as this can be extremely psychologically damaging.
Don't be an insensitive asshole, try and put yourself in his shoes. In one night this kid had his trust destroyed, his critical life decisions completely undermined, his dreams of maybe becoming a professional gamer completely crushed, and somebody tried to molest him for fuck's sake. Can you imagine what he's going through right now? Stop being such a fucking tool and have some fucking compassion.
Edit: Wtf this guy has 5 posts and every single one of them is a troll?
On October 24 2010 14:07 Ludwigvan wrote: As I read the post, there has been no molestation, but only attempted molestation. I dont think that opening the fly could be considered molestation. However, I dont know what the other members already stated.
Not really sure what your point is here? I'm pretty sure it CAN be counted as molestation, but even if it can't... so? Is attempted rape not a big deal? Attempted murder? It's not like any serious crime "attempted" is just a slap on the wrist and a fine.
Here's an update on the current situation. Gundam decided to leave the Werra clan because all the other administrators thought that would be the only way to minimize the damage. Still, many people already left cause this whole fiasco made an uncurrable damage to the Werra clan, being the general public thinking that Werra is related to 'gayness'. The majority of members not wanting themselves to be thought as gay left, and the co-manager is deciding whether to close down Werra permanently or start another clan with the remaining members. Either way, Gumdam is completely toasted, and only time will tell whether he will be charged or sentenced for his actions.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
You're pretty narrow-minded if you think that only things that get reported in the news are worth anything. Sure there are kids who people "TRY" to molest every day, does that make it worth any less? People are raped and murdered every day as well, and it doesn't make the news, does that mean it doesn't mean anything?
You're being ignorant, and also an ass if you think that this is a kid being "melodramatic". I've been studying Psychology for 6 years and can tell you, as could almost anyone for that matter, that an incident such as this can be extremely psychologically damaging.
Don't be an insensitive asshole, try and put yourself in his shoes. In one night this kid had his trust destroyed, his critical life decisions completely undermined, his dreams of maybe becoming a professional gamer completely crushed, and somebody tried to molest him for fuck's sake. Can you imagine what he's going through right now? Stop being such a fucking tool and have some fucking compassion.
Edit: Wtf this guy has 5 posts and every single one of them is a troll?
That "Madulol" character is obviously a troll account created for this incident. I hope the TL mods come and bash some heads and ban his/her original account.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
If you are touched in ANY way that is against your will or makes you uncomfortable, you've been molested. This kid was obviously already emotionally traumatized by events prior to staying up all night. He's 15 and he has some 32 year old person who he thought was a friend putting his head on his lap and wrapping his arms around him and not allowing him to change outside of his room. I can't believe anybody would even sit here and attempt to argue that this kid was "not technically molested" or "not actually traumatized", you guys must have lived pretty sheltered lives to not understand that this can be extremely traumatizing.
On October 24 2010 14:09 wringer wrote: Here's an update on the current situation. Gundam decided to leave the Werra clan because all the other administrators thought that would be the only way to minimize the damage. Still, many people already left cause this whole fiasco made an uncurrable damage to the Werra clan, being the general public thinking that Werra is related to 'gayness'. The majority of members not wanting themselves to be thought as gay left, and the co-manager is deciding whether to close down Werra permanently or start another clan with the remaining members. Either way, Gumdam is completely toasted, and only time will tell whether he will be charged or sentenced for his actions.
Were there actually any news stories on it? Because that will hurt the chances of WeRRa sticking around quite a lot.
On October 24 2010 14:07 Subversion wrote: Don't be an insensitive asshole, try and put yourself in his shoes. In one night this kid had his trust destroyed, his critical life decisions completely undermined, his dreams of maybe becoming a professional gamer completely crushed, and somebody tried to molest him for fuck's sake. Can you imagine what he's going through right now? Stop being such a fucking tool and have some fucking compassion.
- Critical life decisions at FIFTEEN ? - Touched zipper =! Molestation - Every kid dreams of being paid to game, he'll get over it.
That being said, what kind of planet are you living on dude ?
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
"it is illegal for an adult to touch any portion of a child's body with a "lewd and lascivious" intent."
That's the legal definition. So basically, when he put his hand on the kid's thigh, he was molesting him. I think opening the kid's fly while he's sleeping is certainly a step further than that. So yes, this is definitely LEGAL molestation. So please stop saying otherwise.
On October 24 2010 14:07 Subversion wrote: Don't be an insensitive asshole, try and put yourself in his shoes. In one night this kid had his trust destroyed, his critical life decisions completely undermined, his dreams of maybe becoming a professional gamer completely crushed, and somebody tried to molest him for fuck's sake. Can you imagine what he's going through right now? Stop being such a fucking tool and have some fucking compassion.
- Critical life decisions at FIFTEEN ? - Touched zipper =! Molestation - Every kid dreams of being paid to game, he'll get over it.
That being said, what kind of planet are you living on dude ?
Dude you are so ignorant it's insane. You have absolutely no idea what it's like in Korea. His decision at "FIFTEEN" was an enormous life decision, and probably one he may never be able to fully recover from. You just don't understand how education and competition works here whatsoever. I fucking live in Korea, I teach at a fucking Korean High School, so I do know a little of what I'm talking about.
If you read above, yes a touched zipper DOES = molestation. And your third point I'm not even going to address, because you obviously completely missed mine.
What planet am I living on? I don't know, one that's against children being sexually abused?
On October 24 2010 14:09 wringer wrote: Here's an update on the current situation. Gundam decided to leave the Werra clan because all the other administrators thought that would be the only way to minimize the damage. Still, many people already left cause this whole fiasco made an uncurrable damage to the Werra clan, being the general public thinking that Werra is related to 'gayness'. The majority of members not wanting themselves to be thought as gay left, and the co-manager is deciding whether to close down Werra permanently or start another clan with the remaining members. Either way, Gumdam is completely toasted, and only time will tell whether he will be charged or sentenced for his actions.
Were there actually any news stories on it? Because that will hurt the chances of WeRRa sticking around quite a lot.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
If you are touched in ANY way that is against your will or makes you uncomfortable, you've been molested. This kid was obviously already emotionally traumatized by events prior to staying up all night. He's 15 and he has some 32 year old person who he thought was a friend putting his head on his lap and wrapping his arms around him and not allowing him to change outside of his room. I can't believe anybody would even sit here and attempt to argue that this kid was "not technically molested" or "not actually traumatized", you guys must have lived pretty sheltered lives to not understand that this can be extremely traumatizing.
Traumatizing? Definitely. I don't understand why he just didn't leave if he was uncomfortable, as it didn't say in the article. Probably afraid for his position on the team or didn't have transportation, but that's just another unknown that strikes me as odd. Not saying he's lying, just that it's odd and I'd like both sides of the story.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
If you are touched in ANY way that is against your will or makes you uncomfortable, you've been molested. This kid was obviously already emotionally traumatized by events prior to staying up all night. He's 15 and he has some 32 year old person who he thought was a friend putting his head on his lap and wrapping his arms around him and not allowing him to change outside of his room. I can't believe anybody would even sit here and attempt to argue that this kid was "not technically molested" or "not actually traumatized", you guys must have lived pretty sheltered lives to not understand that this can be extremely traumatizing.
Traumatizing? Definitely. Molestation? Certainly not. I don't understand why he just didn't leave if he was uncomfortable, as it didn't say in the article. Probably afraid for his position on the team or didn't have transportation, but that's just another unknown that strikes me as odd. Not saying he's lying, just that it's odd and I'd like both sides of the story.
I'm just going to post this again, because you obviously missed it the first time.
"it is illegal for an adult to touch any portion of a child's body with a "lewd and lascivious" intent."
That's the legal definition. So basically, when he put his hand on the kid's thigh, he was molesting him. I think opening the kid's fly while he's sleeping is certainly a step further than that. So yes, this is definitely LEGAL molestation. So please stop saying otherwise.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
If you are touched in ANY way that is against your will or makes you uncomfortable, you've been molested. This kid was obviously already emotionally traumatized by events prior to staying up all night. He's 15 and he has some 32 year old person who he thought was a friend putting his head on his lap and wrapping his arms around him and not allowing him to change outside of his room. I can't believe anybody would even sit here and attempt to argue that this kid was "not technically molested" or "not actually traumatized", you guys must have lived pretty sheltered lives to not understand that this can be extremely traumatizing.
Traumatizing? Definitely. Molestation? Certainly not. I don't understand why he just didn't leave if he was uncomfortable, as it didn't say in the article. Probably afraid for his position on the team or didn't have transportation, but that's just another unknown that strikes me as odd. Not saying he's lying, just that it's odd and I'd like both sides of the story.
I'm just going to post this again, because you obviously missed it the first time.
"it is illegal for an adult to touch any portion of a child's body with a "lewd and lascivious" intent."
That's the legal definition. So basically, when he put his hand on the kid's thigh, he was molesting him. I think opening the kid's fly while he's sleeping is certainly a step further than that. So yes, this is definitely LEGAL molestation. So please stop saying otherwise.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
If you are touched in ANY way that is against your will or makes you uncomfortable, you've been molested. This kid was obviously already emotionally traumatized by events prior to staying up all night. He's 15 and he has some 32 year old person who he thought was a friend putting his head on his lap and wrapping his arms around him and not allowing him to change outside of his room. I can't believe anybody would even sit here and attempt to argue that this kid was "not technically molested" or "not actually traumatized", you guys must have lived pretty sheltered lives to not understand that this can be extremely traumatizing.
Traumatizing? Definitely. I don't understand why he just didn't leave if he was uncomfortable, as it didn't say in the article. Probably afraid for his position on the team or didn't have transportation, but that's just another unknown that strikes me as odd. Not saying he's lying, just that it's odd and I'd like both sides of the story.
You don't always act rational when you feel frightened, some guy even said he lost 90% of the 59 games he played that night which looks like a pretty good indication that he was not in his best mental state. ...not to mention he's 15 years old, he's a child.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I'd be scared to sleep in any adults room/house that I didn't know very well. But a touched zipper is not a molestation, and people should stop considering them the same.
If you are touched in ANY way that is against your will or makes you uncomfortable, you've been molested. This kid was obviously already emotionally traumatized by events prior to staying up all night. He's 15 and he has some 32 year old person who he thought was a friend putting his head on his lap and wrapping his arms around him and not allowing him to change outside of his room. I can't believe anybody would even sit here and attempt to argue that this kid was "not technically molested" or "not actually traumatized", you guys must have lived pretty sheltered lives to not understand that this can be extremely traumatizing.
Traumatizing? Definitely. Molestation? Certainly not. I don't understand why he just didn't leave if he was uncomfortable, as it didn't say in the article. Probably afraid for his position on the team or didn't have transportation, but that's just another unknown that strikes me as odd. Not saying he's lying, just that it's odd and I'd like both sides of the story.
I'm just going to post this again, because you obviously missed it the first time.
"it is illegal for an adult to touch any portion of a child's body with a "lewd and lascivious" intent."
That's the legal definition. So basically, when he put his hand on the kid's thigh, he was molesting him. I think opening the kid's fly while he's sleeping is certainly a step further than that. So yes, this is definitely LEGAL molestation. So please stop saying otherwise.
I edited. >.<
Sorry
That other troll has gotten me into a rage. Really hope he gets banned soon as its clearly a troll account.
If a kid who's 15 years old can indeed ruin the rest of his life on a wild prepubescent decision in Korea, then I'd be more in favor of questioning the absolute nutcases running your educational system/society/citizens letting that happen than blame the kid...
On October 24 2010 14:23 MadULol wrote: If a kid who's 15 years old can indeed ruin the rest of his life on a wild prepubescent decision in Korea, then I'd be more in favor of questioning the absolute nutcases running your educational system/society/citizens letting that happen than blame the kid...
The fact that you are not wrong saddens me. We've got problems...
that really sucks, it's a huge betrayal to be violated by someone you trust. when it comes to something as psychologically critical as one's sexuality, particularly in such a crucial stage of development, this poor kid is going to be hurt and confused for a while. not to mention the ridicule he will probably receive from assholes the world over. that alone is usually enough to shame victims into silence. i think it took real courage for him to stand up against an abuse of power. he's going to need years of counseling to recover.
Wow this is really depressing. He drops out of high school to become a progamer then gets molested by the coach? At least the other teammates stood up for him and left.
On October 24 2010 14:23 MadULol wrote: If a kid who's 15 years old can indeed ruin the rest of his life on a wild prepubescent decision in Korea, then I'd be more in favor of questioning the absolute nutcases running your educational system/society/citizens letting that happen than blame the kid...
One thing I do agree with. The educational climate here is way too competitive for children, its not healthy.
I thnk most of all what hurt is he thoguht weRRa chose him because he was SKILLED and saw TALENT in him. Instead now he believes they may have had this sick intention all along.
Wow, this totally sucks for loverip. He made to GSL RO 64, so he definitely didn't get picked cos gundam wanted a piece, hope loverip can get recruited by another clan, cos getting back into high school then university will be tough.
On October 24 2010 15:10 Vz0 wrote: I thnk most of all what hurt is he thoguht weRRa chose him because he was SKILLED and saw TALENT in him. Instead now he believes they may have had this sick intention all along.
This was not weRRa's collective doing, this was the actions of one individual, gundam.
On October 24 2010 15:10 Vz0 wrote: I thnk most of all what hurt is he thoguht weRRa chose him because he was SKILLED and saw TALENT in him. Instead now he believes they may have had this sick intention all along.
Could be both you know...
Instead of going into breakdown mode the kid should try to see this in a comforting way: Like "Hey I'm a good pro-gamer AND I'm cute/attractive since he tried to hit on me".
Given most people don't share my twisted sense of humor/relativism but you never know ;-)
On October 24 2010 15:10 Vz0 wrote: I thnk most of all what hurt is he thoguht weRRa chose him because he was SKILLED and saw TALENT in him. Instead now he believes they may have had this sick intention all along.
Could be both you know...
Instead of going into breakdown mode the kid should try to see this in a comforting way: Like "Hey I'm a good pro-gamer AND I'm cute/attractive since he tried to hit on me".
Given most people don't share my twisted sense of humor/relativism but you never know ;-)
so unzipping someone's fly is "trying to hit on them"? ok.
Just asking to any south koreans, how exactly will this be handled? How big of a news story is it? Legal stuff etc? If this was a US team I think it would be bigger news over here, just wondering if like fomos etc would cover it or if there was some sort of press thing on stuff like that over there.
mm basically it's hard to gauge how koreans are reacting, if it's a big story, if the guy will face a lot of police/suit charges etc.
Also I've heard stories like Jang Ja-yeon etc and from other sources (rek) about things in a similar vain (sleep with someone for services), is it really a problem or just special cases?
On October 24 2010 15:10 Vz0 wrote: I thnk most of all what hurt is he thoguht weRRa chose him because he was SKILLED and saw TALENT in him. Instead now he believes they may have had this sick intention all along.
Could be both you know...
Instead of going into breakdown mode the kid should try to see this in a comforting way: Like "Hey I'm a good pro-gamer AND I'm cute/attractive since he tried to hit on me".
Given most people don't share my twisted sense of humor/relativism but you never know ;-)
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
If its that bad in Korea, why the hell would he go out publicly about it?
If its all doom and gloom after this kind of publicity, why not just say "i'm leaving the WeRRa house due to personal reasons" instead of telling everyone he was molested. While I don't know korean culture that much, I find it hard to believe that he would shoot himself and his family in the foot like that.
Well this is sad. LoveRip was one of the youngest if not the youngest player to make it to GSL so he definitely has the talent to make it far, but he probably is in a mental state that he can go on as a professional gamer. And due to dropping out of the school he might have hard life in general ahead of him.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
If its that bad in Korea, why the hell would he go out publicly about it?
If its all doom and gloom after this kind of publicity, why not just say "i'm leaving the WeRRa house due to personal reasons" instead of telling everyone he was molested. While I don't know korean culture that much, I find it hard to believe that he would shoot himself and his family in the foot like that.
Dunno bout you guys but I think that deterrent and correct punishment are an important part of civilised society. If poor LoveRip had to go thru shit like that after making such a huge decision in his young life, I really am not going to be thinking how we should save Gundam from the fall-out. Rather, I would be thinking how NOT to have shit like this come up again. And another thing I TOTALLY DISAGREE with is, people leaving school for anything. Gaming included. It is not just to learn math and Physics that we go to school but to get an"education". And that is something which we will carry all our lives. Look at BoxeR, Nada, Yellow etc... However hard they found school, they absolutely forced themselves to go thru it and therefore they are the stalwart, respected people they are today.
I'm sorry but I will never be able to respect even the most successful person in the world if he has not had the grit to atleast try and go through a basic education esp. if the opportunity was there before him to do so.
On October 24 2010 16:03 Firereaver wrote: I'm sorry but I will never be able to respect even the most successful person in the world if he has not had the grit to atleast try and go through a basic education esp. if the opportunity was there before him to do so.
Well then to stay true to your belief you must immediately forfeit your electricity, operating systems, ipad, internet and 90% of your games.
Failure to do so will result in you being a hypocrite ;-)
"Education" doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to the school system, aside that a paper saying you completed X or Y school gives other idiots the feeling you're half-way competent in whatever field you graduated and thus more chances of getting the job; A theory however proven wrong on a daily basis by the enormous fuckups of the last 20 years in medicine, law, finance, housing, development, etc.
I don't know how else to express support for 즐겨찢기.WeRRa except by scribbling here on the internet in amongst the informed contributors (and the trolls). As a fan who is not directly involved in any way, I can only say that there is nothing false in your dedication and that the passion you share with us through the game is not wasted but enriches us. Though I selfishly hope you continue to show us your games, I wish you well in the future whatever you choose.
On October 24 2010 16:10 butter wrote: I don't know how else to express support for 즐겨찢기.WeRRa except by scribbling here on the internet in amongst the informed contributors (and the trolls). As a fan who is not directly involved in any way, I can only say that there is nothing false in your dedication and that the passion you share with us through the game is not wasted but enriches us. Though I selfishly hope you continue to show us your games, I wish you well in the future whatever you choose.
On October 24 2010 16:03 Firereaver wrote: I'm sorry but I will never be able to respect even the most successful person in the world if he has not had the grit to atleast try and go through a basic education esp. if the opportunity was there before him to do so.
Well then to stay true to your belief you must immediately forfeit your electricity, operating systems, ipad, internet and 90% of your games.
Failure to do so will result in you being a hypocrite ;-)
"Education" doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to the school system, aside that a paper saying you completed X or Y school gives other idiots the feeling you're half-way competent in whatever field you graduated and thus more chances of getting the job; A theory however proven wrong on a daily basis by the enormous fuckups of the last 20 years in medicine, law, finance, housing, development, etc.
On October 24 2010 16:12 jalstar wrote: Nothing about this post makes any sense...
Was elaborating on the fact that if he has no respect for people who didn't finish school, he should also have no respect for the creations of said people and thus....
On October 24 2010 16:03 Firereaver wrote: I'm sorry but I will never be able to respect even the most successful person in the world if he has not had the grit to atleast try and go through a basic education esp. if the opportunity was there before him to do so.
Well then to stay true to your belief you must immediately forfeit your electricity, operating systems, ipad, internet and 90% of your games.
Failure to do so will result in you being a hypocrite ;-)
"Education" doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to the school system, aside that a paper saying you completed X or Y school gives other idiots the feeling you're half-way competent in whatever field you graduated and thus more chances of getting the job; A theory however proven wrong on a daily basis by the enormous fuckups of the last 20 years in medicine, law, finance, housing, development, etc.
Are you trolling or just trying to be dense! Why do you think that i put "education" within the quotes? Obviously I did not mean subject matter which is just knowledge which you get from any kind of repetitive training. I'm talking bout the state of mind and subtle character changes that come along with it which is the TRUE meaning of education. A few quotes to show i'm not alone in my opinion: - Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. - Albert Einstein -An educational system isn't worth a great deal if it teaches young people how to make a living but doesn't teach them how to make a life." - unknown by me.
That is the sort of education that i mean when i say it is necessary.And I also clearly said pursuit of it was what I respect, so please read carefully, imbibe and then come up with a logical reply rather than knee-jerk reactions, k?
On October 24 2010 16:17 Firereaver wrote: Are you trolling or just trying to be dense!
A few quotes to show i'm not alone in my opinion: - Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. - Albert Einstein -An educational system isn't worth a great deal if it teaches young people how to make a living but doesn't teach them how to make a life."
That is the sort of education that i mean when i say it is necessary.
BOTH :-)) This thread needs to get cheerful and entertaining. There are psych forums for suicide & rape talk.
Even if this somehow turns out to be false ... the Werra name is dragged in the mud. Even with Gundam leaving I don't think it'll survive. The best scenario would be to form a new team with a new name.
On October 24 2010 16:17 Firereaver wrote: Are you trolling or just trying to be dense!
A few quotes to show i'm not alone in my opinion: - Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. - Albert Einstein -An educational system isn't worth a great deal if it teaches young people how to make a living but doesn't teach them how to make a life."
That is the sort of education that i mean when i say it is necessary.
BOTH :-)) This thread needs to get cheerful and entertaining. There are psych forums for suicide & rape talk.
Autodidactism suffers from these quotes ;-)
Can't really say you've done your bit in this thread to be "cheerful and entertaining"
But there are other threads on TL with a cheerful nature, I don't really think this is the place for it.
Lets not make light of the kid's situation, its just in poor taste.
I know you're a bit cynical and don't really give a shit and whatever, but just remember this is a real person.
On October 24 2010 16:03 Firereaver wrote: I'm sorry but I will never be able to respect even the most successful person in the world if he has not had the grit to atleast try and go through a basic education esp. if the opportunity was there before him to do so.
Well then to stay true to your belief you must immediately forfeit your electricity, operating systems, ipad, internet and 90% of your games.
Failure to do so will result in you being a hypocrite ;-)
"Education" doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to the school system, aside that a paper saying you completed X or Y school gives other idiots the feeling you're half-way competent in whatever field you graduated and thus more chances of getting the job; A theory however proven wrong on a daily basis by the enormous fuckups of the last 20 years in medicine, law, finance, housing, development, etc.
You do realize that a huge majority of contributors to any of those things you listed had degrees and attended university?
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
Korea isn't fucking Japan.
Why are people (who are not from Korea and I doubt know anything about the culture) being so stubborn about this? From what I've read from the previous quoted post as well as another SOUTH KOREAN post, this is in fact the way the Korean culture looks at this kinda of thing. I personally cannot attest to this as I know next to nothing about Korea, but it seems these guys do so I would hear them out. However, it would be nice to get some clarification from someone who is from Korea because this is an important point.
Anyways, to be more on topic, as horrible as this is it is great that LoveRipWeRRa came out with this because chances are he was not the first one, so this will open the doors for more WeRRa (or non WeRRa members possibly) to come forward as well. Incredible bravery and courage by LoveRipWeRRa and I really wish him and anyone else involved the best of luck. Hopefully Gundam gets what he deserves (prison time) and turns over a new leaf in the future.
Woop, good thing I'm Korean.
Seriously, I'm getting tired of Japanese cultural stereotypes being applied to other Asian cultures. Or rather, people viewing China/Korea/Japan etc. as, "pretty much the same thing."
Ya, when you get publicly ousted for molesting a child (and in Korea for being a potential homosexual/bisexual), it's gonna get ugly for you, but it's not because of some bullshit archaic BUSHIDO type code of honour or something.
If I fuck up big time I'm not going to off myself because I "dishonoured" my family or something. I'd be offing myself because all my dignity was stripped away, and I'd have no prospect of a future after something scandalous is on my 'public' record (that's assuming if I was from a conservative Korean background).
I may be nitpicking on semantics, but there is a distinct difference in the way which the words honour and more appropriate words like dignity connote to whatever you're writing.
Back on topic: It's a shame WeRRa disbanded because of this. They really had a talented group of players and I really hope their core players are able to bring something back. I feel real sorry for the kid, shit like that is just so wrong, no matter how "minor" those trolls try to convince you it was. HURF DURF IT WAS ONLY A ZIPPER.
Maybe TL should look into picking up some of the Werra guys. Having some Korean speakers on the team could really help them out and Werra has some great players up for grabs.
So are the cops geting involved in this yet? With things like this you almost always find more victims coming foward when the suspect is arrested, and removed from there postion of power. Just have to hope this was a isolated case.
What a story. I hope the kid gets back into school, or at least get picked up by another team or something. I hope the rest of the WeRRa guys find themselves a team again.
It was an OK clan, although I'm not a big fan of WC3. Can't say I was sympathetic of any of them during GSL either, they just failed to deliver on the level of oGs, Prime and NEX. They probably just couldn't meet the bills of sponsors.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
Korea isn't fucking Japan.
Why are people (who are not from Korea and I doubt know anything about the culture) being so stubborn about this? From what I've read from the previous quoted post as well as another SOUTH KOREAN post, this is in fact the way the Korean culture looks at this kinda of thing. I personally cannot attest to this as I know next to nothing about Korea, but it seems these guys do so I would hear them out. However, it would be nice to get some clarification from someone who is from Korea because this is an important point.
Anyways, to be more on topic, as horrible as this is it is great that LoveRipWeRRa came out with this because chances are he was not the first one, so this will open the doors for more WeRRa (or non WeRRa members possibly) to come forward as well. Incredible bravery and courage by LoveRipWeRRa and I really wish him and anyone else involved the best of luck. Hopefully Gundam gets what he deserves (prison time) and turns over a new leaf in the future.
Woop, good thing I'm Korean.
Seriously, I'm getting tired of Japanese cultural stereotypes being applied to other Asian cultures. Or rather, people viewing China/Korea/Japan etc. as, "pretty much the same thing."
Ya, when you get publicly ousted for molesting a child (and in Korea for being a potential homosexual/bisexual), it's gonna get ugly for you, but it's not because of some bullshit archaic BUSHIDO type code of honour or something.
If I fuck up big time I'm not going to off myself because I "dishonoured" my family or something. I'd be offing myself because all my dignity was stripped away, and I'd have no prospect of a future after something scandalous is on my 'public' record (that's assuming if I was from a conservative Korean background).
I may be nitpicking on semantics, but there is a distinct difference in the way which the words honour and more appropriate words like dignity connote to whatever you're writing.
Back on topic: It's a shame WeRRa disbanded because of this. They really had a talented group of players and I really hope their core players are able to bring something back. I feel real sorry for the kid, shit like that is just so wrong, no matter how "minor" those trolls try to convince you it was. HURF DURF IT WAS ONLY A ZIPPER.
Yep, in Korea, suicide is more about being ashamed in yourself rather than some sort of honor thing. This isn't 1700s y'know.
This is awful. I'm 28 years old, and many others in gaming today are too. This age difference can be exploited by trusted grown ups. I wouldn't suggest this is something common, and I wouldn't suggest a conclution in this particular case by any means. but young kids pursuing a dream are always very suceptible to exploited. When I worked as a model intenationally, I saw some difficult stuff that made me grow up fast.
The setting in which gaming revolves, hopes, and dreams, makes cases like this diffcult to keep at bay.
On October 24 2010 13:50 torm wrote: wtf is wrong with you?
I look at the world in an unbiased way ?
What just because he plays starcraft or is from team XYZ should make him "special" and I should scream bloody murder horror over... NOTHING ?
People TRY to molest kids every day and I haven't read of anyone this "shocked" about what... did not happen to him for like 10 years worth of reading the news...
Newsflash: there are more evil people than good people in the world. This is neither new or shocking.
a 15 year old was scared to sleep because this man was making him feel uncomfortable and you think all of this boils down to "just" the zipper incident? of course this is going to fuck with the kid's head, are you dense?
I like how you use the fact that people try to molest kids every day as justification to argue that this kid was probably not actually traumatized or had some other agenda. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I would just like to say that, it is not the molesting in itself that caused him to be hurt, but the great betrayal and lack of confidence he now have. The sexual intention part is not the big wound here.
I think he will take more damage if people treat him like a victim for the next few years. This kid was brave and said what needed to be said in public, he will get over it. But if everyone think he will be damaged for the next 10 years or more, they are the one that inflicts damage on him.
As a former wc3 player this makes me really sad. Werra back then was a highly skilled group of friends rather than a professional team. They where very mannered, and everyone had alot of respect for werra members, even the not so famous. To see the name linked with something like this is painful.
Try not to conclude here ppl. And I agree with crappen on that asessing his probable damage on the internet is not what the kid needs..espesially when his dreams are based on an online game. This is a time to show the strength of the community, and it's experience, not it's weaknesses. Yes, he went public, but holdning a 15 year old kid responsible for his actions is exactly what people are indirectly saying no to right now, in that he was taken advantage over without the power to walk away, and arguably react emotionally rational. So be careful in feeling free to say whatever. He was brave to go public, but he will maby not be as happy about it later in a personal perspective. Victimizing is dangerous.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Somehow, the term all in in this connotation just sounds so wrong.
I digress, I hope the kid (who's got potential as GSL Ro64 is NOT a bad performance at all for someone who isn't even on the radar yet) gets back on track in one way or another. Whether he starts studying again and quits SCII (and pours that dedication back to getting into a good Univ and getting good grades) or goes down the pro-gaming path (and try to achieve his full capabilities), he hopefully puts this behind him after getting counseling.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
Idra
Keep being awesome.
Also, crazy story. Sad to see such an old clan disband. I remember WeRRa from the War3 days being super bad ass.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
I think people care about skills more than anything else, but maybe thats just me.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
Whoa, for a while I thought the mods would let this one go because it was Idra who said it (which doesnt make what he said right, but in the past some "elite" posters have been granted leniency for stuff that would get other posters banned).
Good to see justice is blind.
And speaking of justice, can Gundam get charges put on him based on another person's allegations? I'm not familiar with korean laws. It could be they need real evidence like witnesses or a video or something.
So far it's someone's word against another. From what I've read it doesn't look like Gundam is denying what happened..?
Stay classy Idra. That is some crazy development, werra is disbanded due to child molestation accusations? This is not something i can fathom. wow.. just wow
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
I'm your fan IdrA, but as I've said about you in other posts, you're not a little HS kid. You are an 24 yo adult (or whatever your exact age is) in the progaming scene. If you weren't in progaming, you'd be working in a professional environment by now.
This isn't some random ass forum for you to act like a kid in. This is equivalent to your company's intranet board. Your fans, your community, & your very career scene are watching you as your fame grows bigger.
If I had ever said that shit, my company would've gotten my ass pwned with HR managers, my boss, the whole works.
We all act stupid sometimes on internet. TL isn't the place for it, especially you as a pro gamer. Maybe this is a slap on the wrist before you REALLY learn it the hard way in real life.
Please grow up as an individual. Good luck in GSL2, I'm rooting for you.
Speaking on a general basis; Today most have a juvenile internet mentality, fanboys are oblivios, and rebell through other people which keeps reinforcing "bad" behavior in profiled personalities. But as the game is growing exponentially, and organisations are getting more, and more professional, LAN events becomes the standard, the requirement for acceptable behavior in all official channels will become standard. The big sponsors that drives everything will have to be more serious about their investments. The internet is one thing, but when there's serious money and real life involved, some behavior just isn't that funny anymore. Of course, a lot of people that live most of their life online, will have problems adjusting to real life social norms. Especially if their sometimes misplaced self confidance is built, and indentified as a product of the internet, and feeds on keeping it alive. The love, and power of anonymity and there-by possibilty for being arguably stupid, should of course not be underestimated. People love having a safe enviroment to express themselves without repercussions. ...and playing a Terran no more have reapercussions.
damn, reading the description of the story made me pretty sad.
also, i'm not surprised idra's able to post what he did. just confirming what people already thought about him, he just doesn't give a fuck. in his world, sc2 itself > people. like, he might actually have a form of asperger's.
I can't believe that some people either don't see this as a problem, or only see it as a problem because of his age.
If he's touching him against his will, intimidating the guy into staying when he doesn't want to, demanding he strip off in front of him and attempting to take off his clothes while he's sleeping it's sexual assault. Heck the zipper thing is probably at least attempted rape. Doesn't matter if the victim is 15 or 51, you can't act like that, it's not just hitting on someone in an awkward way. Hollywood movies may have turned stalking and other such "high jinks" into the romantic comedy genre but in the real world it's a crime.
On October 24 2010 22:16 CharlieMurphy wrote: from the last paragraph it doesn't even sound like he did anything but fiddle with his zipper. its not a crime to be gay or try and hug/hold people.
Right, you can be as gay as you want except:
1. It happened within WORK environment especially between boss & subordinate relationship 2. The victim is a MINOR (15 yo)
1 + 2 = GG
Imagine if this happened at your typical company, you're fired, sued, jailed and branded as a sexual predator for life. Progaming is no different.
The little kid is freaking mentally fucked and CRYING for god's sake.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
On October 24 2010 22:16 CharlieMurphy wrote: from the last paragraph it doesn't even sound like he did anything but fiddle with his zipper.
The biggest issue, as it has been stated so many times in this thread, is not the actual act- but rather the fact that he emotionally scarred a young boy. Imagine you are 15 years old and your coach asked you to spend the night at his house. In America, this doesn't sound like it is likely to happen because everyone is already paranoid- but to a boy who completely trusted his coach it is heart breaking...
I suppose the best analogy would be a dog who has been beaten by its previous owner. Dogs who have been beaten are often times skittish and unable to place trust in others after such an experience. Based on my observation of LoveRip's posts- it sounds like that is a fitting comparison.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
I think people care about skills more than anything else, but maybe thats just me.
so belittling such a serious matter is a good skill to have?
this is a kid, not even 18 that has just been sexually molested. making a joke out of it is grossly inappropriate. especially the poster above you who told idra to "stay awesome".
On October 24 2010 22:16 CharlieMurphy wrote: from the last paragraph it doesn't even sound like he did anything but fiddle with his zipper. its not a crime to be gay or try and hug/hold people.
anyway, its not a serious crime but its serious enough that the kid will leave the clan, why would anybody want to be in a clan where the leader is known for sexual harassment of his clan members? its an issue of trust, just as the kid said :/, people start bailing
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
you say it like he cares
Wow, fanboyism at finest.
The poster couldn't give a shit about IdrA either, but he was kind enough to provide some truth. I don't know about you, but I don't worship my celebrities blindly. They're people just like you. If they act like kids, they fucking are kids.
He is underage first of all, as opposed to the team leader. Second; he is relying on this person to guide him to reach his goals, and therefore has immence psychological power. Especially taking the emotional developement of a 15 year old in account. The team leader in the supposed scenario obviously, and conciously exploited him in full knowledge of this. By the words written, even manipulated him based on it, and counted on it. Being gay really has nothing to do with this. Opening a zipper is more than enough to brake trust in this situation, and opening the zipper as the only case maker is grossly simplifying the scenario.
Gundam's sexuality is not the point, the game of Sc2 is not the point.
The point is a "child" has had his mental psycology affected by a peer that he supposedly trusted. If this was a child being molested at a school, every single person would be up in arms and disgusted by what they saw. The situation here is not any different. It's a child being mistreated by an adult that he trusted.
Beyond that, it will undoubtedly affect all the people that were in the clan, or close family and friends of both parties in the situation.
Of course this is the internet, and so there will always be the trolls and idiots, but sometimes things are better left unsaid when they aren't warrented. This thread really shouldn't be filled with s much immaturity.
I hope all the WeRRa guys can keep their heads up and move on from this.
To those who say Werra wasn't that good of a team, I think you are being to harsh. They were second in the team invitational. Sure maybe some teams didnt try their hardest put they almost beat oGs in the finals. They had potential. I look forward to seeing how this shakes down.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
I think people care about skills more than anything else, but maybe thats just me.
so belittling such a serious matter is a good skill to have?
this is a kid, not even 18 that has just been sexually molested. making a joke out of it is grossly inappropriate. especially the poster above you who told idra to "stay awesome".
Nobody cares if Gundam is gay or not, but there is an obvious abuse of power here. A 15 year old kid trusted in his coach and was let down and pressured into something he did not want. I wish the best to everyone at WeRRa and whatever they will do from now on.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
I think people care about skills more than anything else, but maybe thats just me.
so belittling such a serious matter is a good skill to have?
this is a kid, not even 18 that has just been sexually molested. making a joke out of it is grossly inappropriate. especially the poster above you who told idra to "stay awesome".
Nobody can control what people think is funny, and nobody want's to. But having knowledge about sertain things gives you a different perspective, and there-by makes it not so funny after all. If you have poor empathetic developement, empathetic deprivement, or lack knowledge about how people are really affected by molestation, you will probably think it's exillirating, or even arousing in some cases. But that is because you are searching for something hard core enough to evoke an emotional response in your self. Usually because you are emoitionally deprived of emotional responses you need to satisfy your mind. This is very common in people that only sits in front of the computer all day in non-social settings, sadly. Some people even get addicted to seing extreme violence and mutilation because of this unsatisfied need. The LAN developement in gaming in general due to social acceptance, and the social developement in gamers because of this, is really good for the community. So if you make this about freedom of speech, or individuality, it is really just lack of something more that purely intellectual knowledge of how to properly respond in a social context to not seem tabu, or even that...and you do not learn everything you need to know solely from the internet. btw: this is probably more about misconduct, and misuse of power than age. Countries with an 18 year old limit, and conservative religious traditions will probably disagree though. Personally I think the age is important, because the age obiously made the power greater, and the actions were without consent.
15 yrs is the legal boundary in Denmark. Even one of our famous politicians banged a 15 year old chick on a field trip, and he was 35 at the time I believe. he is still an active politician.
And for those saying this isn't about homosexuality, I disagree. If it was a 30 year old female coach feeling up her "students", it would be pure awesomeness....Every school boys dream.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than the fact that 15-16 year old chicks are craaaazy...... They even like to go ass to mouth.
On October 24 2010 23:38 Seze wrote: And for those saying this isn't about homosexuality, I disagree. If it was a 30 year old female coach feeling up her "students", it would be pure awesomeness....Every school boys dream. .
The teacher that you're referencing (the one in the south park episode) still faced criminal charges. Using a position of authority to ilicit sexual favours is wrong, no matter what the age. The fact the kid was a minor just makes the whole goddamn situation worse.
The point about student teacher fantasties does has absolutely no bearing on an incident like this.That kid stayed up all night laddering for fear that if he slept he would be sexually assaulted in his sleep - when he finally did fall asleep he claims to have been awoken in a really inappropriate fashion.
His behavior at best warrants him never being an SC2 coach again, and at worst criminal proceedings. It's not about sexuality, it's about people using positions of power to take advantage of the young, and easily influenced. It's probably not the first time this guy has tried to tempt in youngesters with the promise of e-fame, only to try and force them into sexual relations.
On October 24 2010 23:38 Seze wrote: 15 yrs is the legal boundary in Denmark. Even one of our famous politicians banged a 15 year old chick on a field trip, and he was 35 at the time I believe. he is still an active politician.
And for those saying this isn't about homosexuality, I disagree. If it was a 30 year old female coach feeling up her "students", it would be pure awesomeness....Every school boys dream.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than the fact that 15-16 year old chicks are craaaazy...... They even like to go ass to mouth.
User was banned for this post.
wtf are you talking about, that would not be pure awesomeness. I love the reverse sexism that is ok now,and how this is turning into a thread about whether his sexuality is the problem. No one should care about his sexuality, its the fact that he was using that position of power for a creepy exchange.
I wonder how people can assimilate zipping off his trousers as "molesting". This is highly exagerated. Even though his attentions weren't really good, he didn't go through with it and he didn't rape him. That's what getting molested is : getting raped.
The only embarrassing thing here is that loverip is a minor, whereas gundam ain't. Otherwise, this would just be an awkward attempt from one friend to another or something, but definitely not molesting.
I think one has to be a little bit skeptical this even occurred in the first place. Logically speaking, if one was sexually harassed or raped the thing you don't want to do is go talk about it on a blog or gaming website. A matter as serious as this HAS to be discussed with the proper authorities because it is a criminal manner and I think speaking about it publicly before talking to any type of law enforcement almost certainly undervalues the claim you are making.
It's been said on here before how much harassment Korean netizens put on people. Sangho had to quit progaming because of false rumor and many other have committed suicide. Think: what if this is a fabricated story because the kid is angry he was kicked out for performance reasons?
If this did happen I would like to see the guy face a criminal tribunal. If this in fact didn't happen, hopefully the guy is smart enough to hire lawyers and sue him for defamation.
On October 25 2010 00:04 Spaylz wrote: I wonder how people can assimilate zipping off his trousers as "molesting". This is highly exagerated. Even though his attentions weren't really good, he didn't go through with it and he didn't rape him. That's what getting molested is : getting raped.
The only embarrassing thing here is that loverip is a minor, whereas gundam ain't. Otherwise, this would just be an awkward attempt from one friend to another or something, but definitely not molesting.
If he was raped, the accusation would simply be "rape", not "molestation". Sexual molestation perfectly describes what allegedly happened here. Please go get your definitions straight.
Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
Oh does he really enjoy what he does? Does his rage have an answer to it? You might think playing video games for a living would be awesome, because you play video games as a hobby/escape from your actual career/socialize. But in the sense that you do an activity for countless hours a week and your salary depends on how well you play, I'm sure you'll see it differently. I'm sure there are medical doctors out there who, ENJOY what they do. And like most other careers you can stay at it for most of your entire life. Note: I'm sure Idra is a nice guy somewhat, and respect him for what he does. Its just his statement in this thread that was completely uncalled for. With his current stature in the community, he should be careful how he represents himself.
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
Oh does he really enjoy what he does? Does his rage have an answer to it? You might think playing video games for a living would be awesome, because you play video games as a hobby/escape from your actual career/socialize. But in the sense that you do an activity for countless hours a week and your salary depends on how well you play, I'm sure you'll see it differently. I'm sure there are medical doctors out there who, ENJOY what they do. And like most other careers you can stay at it for most of your entire life. Note: I'm sure Idra is a nice guy somewhat, and respect him for what he does. Its just his statement in this thread that was completely uncalled for. With his current stature in the community, he should be careful how he represents himself.
Wtf is wrong with you? Also you need to learn the definition of rage, because what IdrA does is not rage 99.5% of the time.
His "current stature" will be how he wants it to be. I think it makes him even more awesome because he doesn't give a shit about what people like you think, he just wanted people to laugh, and let me tell you, I laughed.
It sounds like you are jealous of him or something. I thought his joke was funny, not stop acting all tough.
On October 25 2010 01:00 keeblur wrote: So... why are people talking about IdrA in a thread that has nothing to do with him?
Some 15 yo boy getting molested by someone he trusted. Idra think this is a good opportunity to show his humour.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
Idra fans reactions:
On October 24 2010 20:55 Bosu wrote: Idra Keep being awesome.
On October 24 2010 21:29 RotterdaM wrote: hahhaha idra <3
On October 24 2010 21:35 AmaZing wrote: Stay classy Idra.
On October 24 2010 22:24 rabidch wrote: lol idra...
On October 25 2010 01:15 Glasse wrote: His "current stature" will be how he wants it to be. I think it makes him even more awesome because he doesn't give a shit about what people like you think, he just wanted people to laugh, and let me tell you, I laughed.
It sounds like you are jealous of him or something. I thought his joke was funny, not stop acting all tough.
You can get the full story if you read from page 12.
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
Oh does he really enjoy what he does? Does his rage have an answer to it? You might think playing video games for a living would be awesome, because you play video games as a hobby/escape from your actual career/socialize. But in the sense that you do an activity for countless hours a week and your salary depends on how well you play, I'm sure you'll see it differently. I'm sure there are medical doctors out there who, ENJOY what they do. And like most other careers you can stay at it for most of your entire life. Note: I'm sure Idra is a nice guy somewhat, and respect him for what he does. Its just his statement in this thread that was completely uncalled for. With his current stature in the community, he should be careful how he represents himself.
what the hell is wrong with all of you, why is there a discussion on IdrA yet again on a wholly unrelated thread just because IdrA does something very IdrA-like for the billionth time? Basing everything completely on assumptions towards someone you barely know? Just leave IdrA be, it's clear he did something classically stupid and got temp-banned again this does not call for a minor debacle on who he is and what we should be thinking of his life.
Also why're people trying to define the nature of the crime when beyond the logistics of it someone has clearly exploited someone else, in this case, a teenager at a vulnerable stage in their life? The misguided ways people respond to stuff like this on teamliquid really puzzles and frustrates me..
One telling thing is the clan members are making it known who they are believing. It's fortunate the young man is able to stand up for himself, to an extent, and make this public.
Reality is most children, who are put in similar situations with an adult in a position of trust with them, are too scared to reach out for help in anyway. At 16 there is not a whole lot of world experience, understanding of emotions, and so on. A somewhat removed example would be the issues with the Catholic Church recently. Those mostly involved adults who, 10 or 20 years after they were molested, were then strong enough to come forward against the priests.
If this clan leader guy, or whoever he is, is guilty of what is claimed, I hope the authorities come down hard on him.
On October 25 2010 01:15 Glasse wrote: His "current stature" will be how he wants it to be. I think it makes him even more awesome because he doesn't give a shit about what people like you think, he just wanted people to laugh, and let me tell you, I laughed.
It sounds like you are jealous of him or something. I thought his joke was funny, not stop acting all tough.
You can get the full story if you read from page 12.
Except he wasn't molested. The guy -tried-, but nothing really happened.
That's horrible. The whole clan gets disbanded because of one gay molester (even if he was the leader). I'm sure there are plenty of WeRRa members who weren't involved in the situation and even unaware of it. Why do the other guys have to bear this responsibility...
just cause he was "almost" molested doesnt make the matter any better. and lol at the idrA comment dont take it too srsly i think he has a morbid sense of humor.
Except he wasn't molested. The guy -tried-, but nothing really happened.
In legal terms what you just described, ie he tried, is called mens rea. It means what was the intent of the actor, the accused.
The fact is if the deliberate, conscious intent (again, that he "tried") was to molest, and he was in the beginning of the actual act of it, that is a crime. Those are the two main elements of this type of offense.
It will really depend on Korea law, but in NY I am fairly certain this is sufficient for felony criminal charges.
The law is typically not cruel enough to say, "well you tried to commit a crime, but failed, so no harm done. You can go free." It wisely doesn't work like that.
On October 25 2010 01:38 Taosu wrote: That's horrible. The whole clan gets disbanded because of one gay molester (even if he was the leader). I'm sure there are plenty of WeRRa members who weren't involved in the situation and even unaware of it. Why do the other guys have to bear this responsibility...
This is because the WeRRa brand is damaged. It's best to disband and start new. Real world companies does this all the time. e.g. Blackwater
It's sad, but I expect more victims to come forward once a proper investigation is under way. This guy did it in his own home! While his mother was there! It suggested that this is probably not the first time he has done this.
On October 25 2010 01:15 Glasse wrote: His "current stature" will be how he wants it to be. I think it makes him even more awesome because he doesn't give a shit about what people like you think, he just wanted people to laugh, and let me tell you, I laughed.
It sounds like you are jealous of him or something. I thought his joke was funny, not stop acting all tough.
You can get the full story if you read from page 12.
I am glad you only selected parts of my post, if you would have used all of it, it would have shown I thought it was in bad taste for him to make that joke.
On October 25 2010 01:00 keeblur wrote: So... why are people talking about IdrA in a thread that has nothing to do with him?
Some 15 yo boy getting molested by someone he trusted. Idra think this is a good opportunity to show his humour.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
Idra fans reactions:
On October 24 2010 20:55 Bosu wrote: Idra Keep being awesome.
On October 24 2010 21:29 RotterdaM wrote: hahhaha idra <3
On October 24 2010 21:35 AmaZing wrote: Stay classy Idra.
On October 24 2010 22:24 rabidch wrote: lol idra...
On October 25 2010 01:15 Glasse wrote: His "current stature" will be how he wants it to be. I think it makes him even more awesome because he doesn't give a shit about what people like you think, he just wanted people to laugh, and let me tell you, I laughed.
It sounds like you are jealous of him or something. I thought his joke was funny, not stop acting all tough.
You can get the full story if you read from page 12.
I am glad you only selected parts of my post, if you would have used all of it, it would have shown I thought it was in bad taste for him to make that joke.
I think some people need to relax getting upset about idra's comment. The Werra team was known for their all-in style of play. You see the name, you know what to expect. That's all idra was talking about. It might be insensitive and selfish, but its not a big deal. Place your focus where it belongs, on the main story.
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
I don't get what was so offensive about what Idra said. He even commented on it during GSL that when he faced the Werra clan he knew he would probably be facing some sort of 1 base play, which for the most part was true. His comment was just saying that its unfortunate that he will no longer have that advantage. Am I missing something here? I don't think all-in is any sort of sexual innuendo...
I love how the captain (allegedly) tried to excuse it as zipping them up so he "doesn't think I tried anything." As if you can sleep through someone grabbing your junk. Thoughts and prayers go out to the victim in this, I can imagine the betrayal is a lot to bear. Hopefully he and the rest of WeRRa can find a new house together, stick together and get through this together.
As for Idra and his attempt at being cute, that just made me lose what little respect I still had for him. Bet he wouldn't be so mouthy if his BW coach tried to grab his junk. So in the eternal words sung by Jon Stewart and a church group, go fuck yourself Idra, go fuck yourself.
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
This thread is mainly about WeRRa disbanding, not about the sexual assault incident. Keeping in mind that this site is for discussion of SC progaming and not discussion of sexual misconduct, and given that IdrA's experience with WeRRa is from playing them in SC2 games, it's perfectly appropriate for him to comment on their play and what their disbandment will mean to him. If people want to talk about some off topic bullshit like the drama behind the disbandment, blogs would be a good place to start imo.
Liquid`Tyler... did you really just suggest that discussing the direct cause of WeRRa's disintegration is inappropriate in a thread about WeRRa's disbandment?
Really?
College may've taught you to compartmentalize a little too well.
On October 25 2010 03:32 Tadzio wrote: Liquid`Tyler... did you really just suggest that discussing the direct cause of WeRRa's disintegration is inappropriate in a thread about WeRRa's disbandment?
Really?
College may've taught you to compartmentalize a little too well.
I think he's saying that Idra talking about the direct result of Werra's disbandment to him in terms of pro-gaming was completely appropriate in this thread.
On October 25 2010 03:32 Tadzio wrote: Liquid`Tyler... did you really just suggest that discussing the direct cause of WeRRa's disintegration is inappropriate in a thread about WeRRa's disbandment?
Really?
College may've taught you to compartmentalize a little too well.
I think he's saying that Idra talking about the direct result of Werra's disbandment to him in terms of pro-gaming was completely appropriate in this thread.
Yea, a few minutes after I posted it I finally got the feeling he was being sarcastic. But I wanted to be corrected so I could say "Well, ain't my cheeks red! :3"
On October 24 2010 22:27 oRacLeGosu wrote: He is underage first of all, as opposed to the team leader. Second; he is relying on this person to guide him to reach his goals, and therefore has immence psychological power.
"immence psychological power" huh. Is that like the force or something?
It's extremely sad to see such a good team disband because of the negative stigma brought on by one person's actions. The best of luck to all the now ex-werra players, hope to see you guys find or make a new team.
Not much about this thread is removed from the assault incident. Everything about what will happen to the Werra clan, whether they reform, and how, involves the nature of what is going on and where that leads.
I love listening to Cella and the whole Holy Check thing. I wish the former Werra members all the best and I hope their fans give them as much support as possible.
Cognitive dissonance is a strange beast. Just because you like IdrA doesn't mean that he cannot make poor decisions.
1) Idra was obviously making a double entendre. If he said it to me in person, I would have laughed as it is dark humor and I enjoy dark humor. But on a public form, I'd expect to get banned.
2) Sticking your hand down a sleeping 15 year olds pants is sexual assault and is a crime in every developed country in the world.
3) The poor kid should have reported this to the authorities instead of making a post of a forum. However he's a 15 year old drop-out and Korea is known for the police treating sexual assault in a less than serious manner. There are several news articles about this if you care to look them up. Now that he has taken action in this manner the chances of this getting a legal evaluation and judgement are much smaller.
4) LiquidTyler should read the post title again. I'm going to repeat it here. "WeRRa disbands due to sexual misconduct allegations." It is germane to discuss both the disbanding and the reasons for it. You know full well that IdrA was making a joke (and honestly it was funny, just not appropriate) so there is no reason for you to be fatuous.
This whole situation is just sad. If true, the Werra Captain's actions were horrible. The downplaying of this assault by members here is sad. IdrA's comment was funny but inappropriate.
But all we have to go on here is allegations, unfortunately. Apparently that is enough to disband the team but I personally would have wanted to see the light of justice focused on this situation. We may never see justice in this case now (for or against depending on the actual facts).
The only question left in my mind is how is it possible for a 15 year old to drop out of school in South Korea to play a video game full time? That wouldn't be legal in the US (they would have to finish schooling via home study). Is this the same as in Korea or can you really just give up your education to play a video game?
^ Well, to provide an American analogy (not so applicable now, but it has happened), what about players who signed up for the NBA and completely sacrificed their college education? eSports is a staple of the Korean community, so it really doesn't strike me as odd that someone would give up their education to try to become a superstar.
Sacrificing secondary (college) education as an 18 year old adult is completely different from sacrificing primary education as an 15 year old child. Even if the NBA accepted people less than 18 years old (they don't), they would still be legally required to complete their primary education.
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
This thread is mainly about WeRRa disbanding, not about the sexual assault incident. Keeping in mind that this site is for discussion of SC progaming and not discussion of sexual misconduct, and given that IdrA's experience with WeRRa is from playing them in SC2 games, it's perfectly appropriate for him to comment on their play and what their disbandment will mean to him. If people want to talk about some off topic bullshit like the drama behind the disbandment, blogs would be a good place to start imo.
Then why was he banned?
Or are you kidding? I haven't a clue. You've been quite a douche in threads lately.
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
This thread is mainly about WeRRa disbanding, not about the sexual assault incident. Keeping in mind that this site is for discussion of SC progaming and not discussion of sexual misconduct, and given that IdrA's experience with WeRRa is from playing them in SC2 games, it's perfectly appropriate for him to comment on their play and what their disbandment will mean to him. If people want to talk about some off topic bullshit like the drama behind the disbandment, blogs would be a good place to start imo.
Then why was he banned?
Or are you kidding? I haven't a clue. You've been quite a douche in threads lately.
Tyler was right. What IdrA said did not deserve a bad unless you assume what he said was a joke, which mods just assume is because it's IdrA. Not like he cares about temp bans, he posts 2 times a week sadly.
As for the attempted molestation, it's not really a surprise. It happens in sports all the time. Starcraft just has a very small player base compared to something like football.
Unfortunately I think IdrA really only meant literally what he said. He obviously liked playing WeRRa players because he could be confident in the strategies that would be used against him. Unfortunately, a lot of people interpreted "all-in'ed" as a sexual reference, and as such he was temp banned. It might have been a tasteless comment, but at the same time as long as it's only a 2 day ban or so I think IdrA will get the message while not getting brutally punished.
poor kid i hope he over comes this and not get traumatized by this accident. His parents better definately press charges. as i know they have the right and have the resources to in korea which have better justice system then the US.
On October 25 2010 05:11 mierin wrote: Unfortunately I think IdrA really only meant literally what he said. He obviously liked playing WeRRa players because he could be confident in the strategies that would be used against him. Unfortunately, a lot of people interpreted "all-in'ed" as a sexual reference, and as such he was temp banned. It might have been a tasteless comment, but at the same time as long as it's only a 2 day ban or so I think IdrA will get the message while not getting brutally punished.
Idra said when he was commentating the GSL that he's noticed that almost everyone on the WeRRa team one-base all-ins, and then falls apart if that fails. Watching the games, he was mostly correct. This gave him useful advance information. Now he's saying that since the clan has fallen apart, he won't have that useful advance information anymore. He is not condoning the molestation of children, he is bemoaning the loss of intel that furthered his chance of making large amounts of money in the tournament and doing it in a funny way. People really need to get a sense of humor.
On October 25 2010 05:11 mierin wrote: Unfortunately I think IdrA really only meant literally what he said. He obviously liked playing WeRRa players because he could be confident in the strategies that would be used against him. Unfortunately, a lot of people interpreted "all-in'ed" as a sexual reference, and as such he was temp banned. It might have been a tasteless comment, but at the same time as long as it's only a 2 day ban or so I think IdrA will get the message while not getting brutally punished.
Idra said when he was commentating the GSL that he's noticed that almost everyone on the WeRRa team one-base all-ins, and then falls apart if that fails. Watching the games, he was mostly correct. This gave him useful advance information. Now he's saying that since the clan has fallen apart, he won't have that useful advance information anymore. He is not condoning the molestation of children, he is bemoaning the loss of intel that furthered his chance of making large amounts of money in the tournament and doing it in a funny way. People really need to get a sense of humor.
Honestly I completely agree. GL IdrA, and sorry to anyone who was offended by his comment
What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
On October 25 2010 06:29 Baum wrote: What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
What do you suppose he intended to if the kid didn't wake up when he did? It was pretty obvious that he intended to molest him.
Poor kid, I would absolutely hate it if this guy got off the hook. Primarily not due to a desire to see justice done, but so that he doesn't harm anyone ever again.
I actually don't think IdrA meant to imply some tasteless sex joke. He said while he was casting that he didn't think WeRRa was very good, and that most of them relied on one-base all-ins, or something. So I interpreted his post as being disappointed that the WeRRa clan is breaking up because now he won't be able to use the WeRRa tag to know when he's going to get one-base all-in'd.
Edit: Whoops, looks like someone pointed that out before I did. Haha.
lol @ Idra defense force. Face it, your golden boy made a tasteless joke. This isn't politics or the NFL, it's e-sports. Trying to sell it as "an accurate comment made at a bad time" is hilariously tryhard.
On October 25 2010 06:51 TSoM1959 wrote: lol @ Idra defense force. Face it, your golden boy made a tasteless joke. This isn't politics or the NFL, it's e-sports. Trying to sell it as "an accurate comment made at a bad time" is hilariously tryhard.
No, we actually have plenty of evidence to back up what we're saying. You can just blindly and unreasonably tag us as the "IdrA defense force" if you want to be an idiot, but the fact is that IdrA has made comments in the past that heavily support the idea that his post was meant to be taken literally. I'm forming my opinion of IdrA's post off of real facts. Logic. Reasoning. Familiar with those?
On October 25 2010 06:51 TSoM1959 wrote: lol @ Idra defense force. Face it, your golden boy made a tasteless joke. This isn't politics or the NFL, it's e-sports. Trying to sell it as "an accurate comment made at a bad time" is hilariously tryhard.
No, we actually have plenty of evidence to back up what we're saying. You can just blindly and unreasonably tag us as the "IdrA defense force" if you want to be an idiot, but the fact is that IdrA has made comments in the past that heavily support the idea that his post was meant to be taken literally. I'm forming my opinion of IdrA's post off of real facts. Logic. Reasoning. Familiar with those?
If he wasn't being crass, then he was being stupid.
On October 25 2010 06:51 TSoM1959 wrote: lol @ Idra defense force. Face it, your golden boy made a tasteless joke. This isn't politics or the NFL, it's e-sports. Trying to sell it as "an accurate comment made at a bad time" is hilariously tryhard.
No, we actually have plenty of evidence to back up what we're saying. You can just blindly and unreasonably tag us as the "IdrA defense force" if you want to be an idiot, but the fact is that IdrA has made comments in the past that heavily support the idea that his post was meant to be taken literally. I'm forming my opinion of IdrA's post off of real facts. Logic. Reasoning. Familiar with those?
If he wasn't being crass, then he was being stupid.
I do agree that he obviously didn't consider (or didn't care) about how his post would be interpreted, and that he probably shouldn't have made the joke at all. I personally can appreciate that sort of humor, but I can see why it would still be a bad idea to post what he did. Anyway, my point is not that IdrA wasn't being stupid, but that his post simply didn't intend any sexual implications.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
haha funniest thing I've read in a very long time, it's a shame everyone is acting like an internet hero and criticizing this post. We all play starcraft 2 and use video game forums. we are all worthless scum and most of us are overweight. just shut up and have a laugh, our lives don't matter in the least.
On October 25 2010 03:24 AgentMulder wrote: I love how the captain (allegedly) tried to excuse it as zipping them up so he "doesn't think I tried anything." As if you can sleep through someone grabbing your junk. Thoughts and prayers go out to the victim in this, I can imagine the betrayal is a lot to bear. Hopefully he and the rest of WeRRa can find a new house together, stick together and get through this together.
As for Idra and his attempt at being cute, that just made me lose what little respect I still had for him. Bet he wouldn't be so mouthy if his BW coach tried to grab his junk. So in the eternal words sung by Jon Stewart and a church group, go fuck yourself Idra, go fuck yourself.
hahahaha. Go take that nerdrage outside buddy. You should calm down lmao.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
I'm your fan IdrA, but as I've said about you in other posts, you're not a little HS kid. You are an 24 yo adult (or whatever your exact age is) in the progaming scene. If you weren't in progaming, you'd be working in a professional environment by now.
This isn't some random ass forum for you to act like a kid in. This is equivalent to your company's intranet board. Your fans, your community, & your very career scene are watching you as your fame grows bigger.
If I had ever said that shit, my company would've gotten my ass pwned with HR managers, my boss, the whole works.
We all act stupid sometimes on internet. TL isn't the place for it, especially you as a pro gamer. Maybe this is a slap on the wrist before you REALLY learn it the hard way in real life.
Please grow up as an individual. Good luck in GSL2, I'm rooting for you.
I don't agree at all. For a start, Idra's 20, not 24. And this isn't the equivalent of his company's intranet. Idra didn't make his comment in an interview, or a tournament. He made it on a TL thread. And if you look at his history, and his general attitude, this was by far and away one of the least offensive things he's ever said. I found it irreverent and funny. But what one finds amusing, another finds tasteless, so hence his ban.
Whatever IdrA meant with his comment, I'm sure he will PM with the mods if he feels treated unfairly.
Personally I feel sorry for the kid and IdrAs comment quite inappropriate, or at the very least insensitive. But this thread isnt about IdrA, would you guys mind if we returned to the incident and the disbandment of the Werra clan ?
From what we know so far, this seems like the crime of one person so far, but sadly I severely doubt the name Werra will survive this untouched where it counts: in the eyes of potential sponsors. No company will want to risk a potential future PR desaster.
I hope Cella can find a good solution for the remaining clan members and himself.
On October 25 2010 07:44 1Eris1 wrote: Sucks for werra
On the idra thing though, I just feel like this is going to hurt TL, not idra
How could TeamLiquid suffer from this? Idra made a crass joke at an inappropriate time, and he got a slap on the wrist. Idra comes off looking like a prick, TL mods come off looking like responsible mods who don't care how e-famous you are.
wow this is some crazy stuff, im a huge cella fan and hope the best for him. one the things to me that seems the most f%#ked up about this is other then the molestation is "I'm only 15, and I even dropped out of high school to join the team.". This poor kid is 1 taken into this team by this guy who obviously is doing these bad things plus the person he scouted dropped his education for such a rare venue for success?! I feel double sorry for this kid now seeing that in the post the molestation is a really bad thing and that he dropped his education makes it even worse.
On October 25 2010 06:29 Baum wrote: What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
What do you suppose he intended to if the kid didn't wake up when he did? It was pretty obvious that he intended to molest him.
Poor kid, I would absolutely hate it if this guy got off the hook. Primarily not due to a desire to see justice done, but so that he doesn't harm anyone ever again.
To molest is such an abstract term that you are just covering up the fact that just like me you don't know what his intention could have been. It's pretty clear though that there was no harm done other than destroying the hopes of a young boy and the trust in the clans future of the whole squad.
On October 25 2010 06:29 Baum wrote: What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
What do you suppose he intended to if the kid didn't wake up when he did? It was pretty obvious that he intended to molest him.
Poor kid, I would absolutely hate it if this guy got off the hook. Primarily not due to a desire to see justice done, but so that he doesn't harm anyone ever again.
To molest is such an abstract term that you are just covering up the fact that just like me you don't know what his intention could have been. It's pretty clear though that there was no harm done other than destroying the hopes of a young boy and the trust in the clans future of the whole squad.
Hahaha. Common dude. His intention? The guy obviously wanted to taste that kids ass.
Consequences? He will get the same treatment in jail and kids life ruined for a long long time.
This is horrible. I really don't know what to make out of it. I'm a fan of Cella but I can't even comprehend Gundam's actions. Whether or not he intended to do something isn't as important as the fact as he basically destroyed the hopes and dreams of a minor.
I don't think Idra meant anything perverted in his joke, and that people are reading something into it that's not there.
Also, I think TL made the right call in temporarily banning him, to keep him from digging a deeper hole for himself and responding to everyone that is derailing this thread from a serious issue, which is ...
In a professional gaming league, where the average player is something between 15 to 21 years old, what policies are governing body is there to protect these young people from being exploited? It's not just this one issue. There's stories of players being trapped in their house training for weeks, playing more than 12 hours a day, etc. That's not healthy or normal, but players are willing to do it because they're impressionable and desperate to make it big. The idea that players as young as 15 are completely forgoing their formal education is appalling.
At some point the players are going to have to band together and set standards of how they should be treated. Starcraft is a young sport, played by relatively young people. As the stakes and allure of the sport continue to rise, someone or some group is going to have to step up to represent the players.
On October 25 2010 06:29 Baum wrote: What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
What do you suppose he intended to if the kid didn't wake up when he did? It was pretty obvious that he intended to molest him.
Poor kid, I would absolutely hate it if this guy got off the hook. Primarily not due to a desire to see justice done, but so that he doesn't harm anyone ever again.
To molest is such an abstract term that you are just covering up the fact that just like me you don't know what his intention could have been. It's pretty clear though that there was no harm done other than destroying the hopes of a young boy and the trust in the clans future of the whole squad.
Hahaha. Common dude. His intention? The guy obviously wanted to taste that kids ass.
Consequences? He will get the same treatment in jail.
Should I comment on this kind of ignorance? Probably not, but I just can't stand it that people will go down this road when they run out of arguments. "HE IS A CHILD MOLESTER GO GET HIM!" -_-
On October 25 2010 08:09 Cr3scent wrote: This is horrible. I really don't know what to make out of it. I'm a fan of Cella but I can't even comprehend Gundam's actions. Whether or not he intended to do something isn't as important as the fact as he basically destroyed the hopes and dreams of a minor.
That's my point. He made a mistake concerning his position but people shouldn't talk about him as if he were a rapist.
On October 25 2010 06:29 Baum wrote: What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
What do you suppose he intended to if the kid didn't wake up when he did? It was pretty obvious that he intended to molest him.
Poor kid, I would absolutely hate it if this guy got off the hook. Primarily not due to a desire to see justice done, but so that he doesn't harm anyone ever again.
To molest is such an abstract term that you are just covering up the fact that just like me you don't know what his intention could have been. It's pretty clear though that there was no harm done other than destroying the hopes of a young boy and the trust in the clans future of the whole squad.
Hahaha. Common dude. His intention? The guy obviously wanted to taste that kids ass.
Consequences? He will get the same treatment in jail and kids life ruined for a long long time.
Oh my....Did you have to be so graphic?
PS. Idra's comment was not a joke. It was definitely dumb to put it in this thread, but he definitely wasn't implying any sexual innuendo or something.
On October 25 2010 06:29 Baum wrote: What I just want to get out there is: Stop treating this guy like a rapist! He was out of line there concerning his position but other than that nothing has really happened.
What do you suppose he intended to if the kid didn't wake up when he did? It was pretty obvious that he intended to molest him.
Poor kid, I would absolutely hate it if this guy got off the hook. Primarily not due to a desire to see justice done, but so that he doesn't harm anyone ever again.
To molest is such an abstract term that you are just covering up the fact that just like me you don't know what his intention could have been. It's pretty clear though that there was no harm done other than destroying the hopes of a young boy and the trust in the clans future of the whole squad.
Hahaha. Common dude. His intention? The guy obviously wanted to taste that kids ass.
Consequences? He will get the same treatment in jail.
Should I comment on this kind of ignorance? Probably not, but I just can't stand it that people will go down this road when they run out of arguments. "HE IS A CHILD MOLESTER GO GET HIM!" -_-
On October 25 2010 08:09 Cr3scent wrote: This is horrible. I really don't know what to make out of it. I'm a fan of Cella but I can't even comprehend Gundam's actions. Whether or not he intended to do something isn't as important as the fact as he basically destroyed the hopes and dreams of a minor.
That's my point. He made a mistake concerning his position but people shouldn't talk about him as if he were a rapist.
So here's the question then, what do you call it when an adult goes up to a sleeping 15 year old boy and starts fiddling with his fly? What do you propose his intentions were? Generally when a grown man gropes at a kid's nether-regions it's called molestation. Is it called something else in Germany?
I hope rest of Werra's manage to get a new team or form a new team. They are all very good. I am suprised to see so many idiots in this thread just joking about something like this..
In a professional gaming league, where the average player is something between 15 to 21 years old, what policies are governing body is there to protect these young people from being exploited? It's not just this one issue. There's stories of players being trapped in their house training for weeks, playing more than 12 hours a day, etc. That's not healthy or normal, but players are willing to do it because they're impressionable and desperate to make it big. The idea that players as young as 15 are completely forgoing their formal education is appalling.
Shouldn't there be a high school diploma requirement to join a pro-gaming team or play games professionally? No one is guaranteed to make a living off of playing StarCraft, so why not encourage a formal education before games?
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
"You know, when you look at pro wrestling or things like that, you have that person who's not afraid to talk grack smack..."
While a lot of people love giving Idra the benefit of the doubt I'll go out on a limb and say I don't think he's as stupid as a lot of people seem to think. Most likely, he meant it both literally and figuratively and was expecting people to assume the latter, which they did.
Unless he's that clueless, which I don't buy. And I'm assuming the mods don't either.
You know you got a lot of internet fanboys when you can derail an entire thread talking about some poor kid getting molested with a single sentence. I mean seriously, if it was some random TL poster saying what IdrA did, people would be split into two groups: one group being disgusted with what he said and the other group finding it funny, but both groups would know that it was a tasteless comment and that the temp ban was justified. Buuut of course since its IdrA, there will be that group of sycophants who think he can do no wrong.
At the same time, I cant believe that there are people blaming the victim or otherwise suggesting that he was overreacting. If some old guy put his mouth anywhere near your dick, you know youd be disturbed. If that same guy then put his hand there as well, in the same night i might add, you know youd be beating the living shit outta him. The problem is that the victim is just a kid and couldnt possibly defend himself against an older guy. How can you possibly think that this kid isnt a victim here?
The only thing more amusing than Idras joke is people getting all asspained about it and trying to lecture him. If people really get offended by a comment on the internet (that probably wasn't even intended as a sexual innuendo, but people will see what they want to see), I have no idea how they cope in everyday life. I'm not a fanboy, I just know not to take the internet to heart lol
IdrA had said things about WeRRa members one-base all-inning before this news coming out, and his comment is 100% just as legitimate and "IdrA" if WeRRa had broken up for any other reason.
He took the available snipe at WeRRA players, and I think the inappropriate callousness of the comment is what got him banned; not the potential double entendre, even if he was aware of it. I don't think IdrA has any intention of making fun of somebody for being sodomized.
EDIT: On topic, I feel terrible for WeRRa players that have, in reality, lost their home and gaming family. I'll be hugging CellaWeRRA on MSN tonight :<
I don't think the outrage was over people thinking of "all in" in a sexual way, that's certainly not why his comment pissed me off. Zerokaiser sums up my thoughts better then I could. To WeRRa Starcraft wasn't a way to escape from a bad day or a shitty job, it was their job. These players depended on this group to make a living, and for that to fall apart because of some prick deciding to take advantage of a kid, not through poor performance, it is a shitty situation all around.
Enter Idra, a smartass comment, and what has followed. Despite his penchant for not being "politically correct" or "mannered" or "a good sport in general", I would have never guessed he would stoop that low, seeing as he could have had the same thing happen to him. In a normal setting, while a bit of a low blow, this would be seen for what it is, an attempt at a joke. But people losing their jobs and an adult molesting a kid isn't something to have a LOL about over the internet.
IdrA's comment being taken to connote some sort of sexual innuendo is ridiculous.
If the mod thought that temp banning him was a smart heads-up way to nip this sort of thing in the bud, then well done sir, but everyone ripping on him is ridiculous.
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
This thread is mainly about WeRRa disbanding, not about the sexual assault incident. Keeping in mind that this site is for discussion of SC progaming and not discussion of sexual misconduct, and given that IdrA's experience with WeRRa is from playing them in SC2 games, it's perfectly appropriate for him to comment on their play and what their disbandment will mean to him. If people want to talk about some off topic bullshit like the drama behind the disbandment, blogs would be a good place to start imo.
...How is this thread not about the sexual assault incident? It's the whole reason this is a thread and is even part of the topic..
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
This thread is mainly about WeRRa disbanding, not about the sexual assault incident. Keeping in mind that this site is for discussion of SC progaming and not discussion of sexual misconduct, and given that IdrA's experience with WeRRa is from playing them in SC2 games, it's perfectly appropriate for him to comment on their play and what their disbandment will mean to him. If people want to talk about some off topic bullshit like the drama behind the disbandment, blogs would be a good place to start imo.
...How is this thread not about the sexual assault incident? It's the whole reason this is a thread and is even part of the topic..
He was being sarcastic that entire post. Don't feel too bad though, took me a while to pick up on it.
Damn, I remember this clan back from my days of playing War3 on the Kalimdor server. Was always a lively place, and now it's disbanding. Sad to hear. Also, good luck to that kid, I hope things get better for him.
I'm not one to generally find humor in such a terrible, terrible incident, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't chuckle at IdrA's comment. If I could have my way, I'd throw that scumbag of a 'coach' into an American prison, and let his fellow inmates gladly await the moment he "drops the soap". I find people like the "coach" disgusting human beings. Capital punishment is probably to much to ask in this case, but whatever the maximum sentence is, I pray to God Almighty he gets it. I have three nephews and a little niece, and I know that I myself would end the life of whoever (God forbid) lay a hand on them inappropriately.
I just hope this incident doesn't arise some "psychological" bullcrap where people defend the "coach" because in Korea they shun homosexuality. Ugh, that would annoy me to the skies and back down to the earth. People who make excuses for scumbags like him deserve to be thrown in jail with him. You commit a crime, you commit a crime and should be punished for it.
God love and help the WeRRa members, and I pray they find a new home quickly.
On October 25 2010 09:45 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote: IdrA's comment being taken to connote some sort of sexual innuendo is ridiculous.
If the mod thought that temp banning him was a smart heads-up way to nip this sort of thing in the bud, then well done sir, but everyone ripping on him is ridiculous.
Anyways, he ate a temp ban, let's all move along.
i found idra's post inappropriate because he simply insinuated the situation disadvantaged his play against weRRa since he can no longer automatically detect all-ins, rather than give any sympathy for the poor kid that was molested.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
Idra
You are more famous than before now, so you really got to becareful of what you say. U represent the hope of foreign sc2 competition, I don't care if you really think you are a "baller" as other people said. You and especially you should not behave like this. This is a sad story about a 15 yo kid who give up everything for something he loved. If you keep talking/acting this way, it's going to bite you back in the future. Imagine someone translated your post to the Korean forums, can you handle all the "boos" that you will receive every time you go on the stage?
That's a pretty funny joke he told. I don't think it's an indication that he is not sensitive to the situation, nor that he is making fun of what happened to that kid. It's just a funny side joke that's all. Y'all are making too big of a deal out of this.
On October 25 2010 02:33 Phaint wrote: I'm more than sure IdrA seriously meant that WeRRa just all ins most games. Stop giving him so much credit for making that pun.
He even stated such about WeRRa while he was commentating the GSL games.
It is a terrible situation and I totally understand the hypersensitivity. I'm not an IdrA fanboy, just cut the guy a break.
While I agree there is a place for cute puns it is not in a thread about a team captain trying to molest a young kid. Take the IdrA love to his fan page thread, he deserves no slack just because he is a consistent ass, the ban was justified.
This thread is mainly about WeRRa disbanding, not about the sexual assault incident. Keeping in mind that this site is for discussion of SC progaming and not discussion of sexual misconduct, and given that IdrA's experience with WeRRa is from playing them in SC2 games, it's perfectly appropriate for him to comment on their play and what their disbandment will mean to him. If people want to talk about some off topic bullshit like the drama behind the disbandment, blogs would be a good place to start imo.
...How is this thread not about the sexual assault incident? It's the whole reason this is a thread and is even part of the topic..
He was being sarcastic that entire post. Don't feel too bad though, took me a while to pick up on it.
On October 25 2010 03:11 dannybox wrote: I think some people need to relax getting upset about idra's comment. The Werra team was known for their all-in style of play. You see the name, you know what to expect. That's all idra was talking about. It might be insensitive and selfish, but its not a big deal. Place your focus where it belongs, on the main story.
Even if it wasn't meant to be an innuendo (I dont think it was), how much social skills can you be lacking to think its even worth talking about how this affects you playing the game in this thread? What happened is way more serious than any GSL, and bemoaning that you can't "read allins" anymore in a sad attempt to be funny is just poor taste.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
Mods banning IdrA sure is gonna change the reality of the news...
I thought the comment was actually quite witty. Definitely does not deserve a ban.
Rape isnt funny ok, any other member would have been banned. Would it make sense to ban idra from a site like this, no it would not. But at least let him know hes being a bad troll.
On October 24 2010 20:34 IdrA wrote: damn them all wearing the werra tag was a good way to know when you were gonna get allin'd
User was temp banned for this post.
Mods banning IdrA sure is gonna change the reality of the news...
I thought the comment was actually quite witty. Definitely does not deserve a ban.
Rape isnt funny ok, any other member would have been banned. Would it make sense to ban idra from a site like this, no it would not. But at least let him know hes being a bad troll.
It actually depends. If he meant that literally that WeRRa always does all-ins, then heres (kinda) the right place to post this, as it is about the WeRRa clan's disbanding
If he meant it as a sexual innuendo, then it wasn't the right place to put it and the ban is completely justified. This would also be the right place to put it as a troll.
I think Gundam deserves some credit. He didn't get aggressive and force the rape on the kid. Sure, his attempt was crazy and scary and wrecked the kids life, but just imagine how much worse it would have been had the kid actually been raped.
Gundam probably has a real problem with his head, but he somehow was able to overcome it enough to not go through with the whole thing.
The kid walked away with nothing physically done to him, he is obviously a good player and should continue his career after some help from a psychiatrist.
Having said all this, Gundams actions were very very wrong, but he didn't go way overboard. Some people are born with unfortunately bad minds, it sucks that this kind of thing had to happen.
On October 25 2010 11:42 TehOne wrote: I think Gundam deserves some credit. He didn't get aggressive and force the rape on the kid. Sure, his attempt was crazy and scary and wrecked the kids life, but just imagine how much worse it would have been had the kid actually been raped.
Gundam probably has a real problem with his head, but he somehow was able to overcome it enough to not go through with the whole thing.
The kid walked away with nothing physically done to him, he is obviously a good player and should continue his career after some help from a psychiatrist.
Having said all this, Gundams actions were very very wrong, but he didn't go way overboard. Some people are born with unfortunately bad minds, it sucks that this kind of thing had to happen.
Point taken. Let's give him some credit, he only tried to unzip a 15 year old's pants and grab his crotch. The kid physically wasn't hurt, let's send him to a shrink and all will be sunshine and buttercups.
On October 24 2010 06:37 unbal3 wrote: @ICanFlyLow I feel like that is out of line. The big issue here is NOT gundamwerra's sexuality, whether he is G/B/T/Q/Confused whatever. What is wrong here is the fact that he allegedly molested a minor.
I agree with what you said... but I'm confused about Q...
After reading all 20+ pages of this forum it made me think that maybe the kid didn't elaborate entirely on what happened. Sure he did say enough for us to assume that Gundam really did molest him but I don't think anyone outside of the WeRRa clan could really know what happened, (except of course family, friends etc.). My heart defiantly goes out to the kid being strong enough to say what he did, but who knows if thats all that the perv really did to him.
Anyways i hope all goes well for the rest of the WeRRa clan, defiantly a bummer that one pedo gets to destroy an amazing clan (even if he was the manager)
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
Korea isn't fucking Japan.
Why are people (who are not from Korea and I doubt know anything about the culture) being so stubborn about this? From what I've read from the previous quoted post as well as another SOUTH KOREAN post, this is in fact the way the Korean culture looks at this kinda of thing. I personally cannot attest to this as I know next to nothing about Korea, but it seems these guys do so I would hear them out. However, it would be nice to get some clarification from someone who is from Korea because this is an important point.
Anyways, to be more on topic, as horrible as this is it is great that LoveRipWeRRa came out with this because chances are he was not the first one, so this will open the doors for more WeRRa (or non WeRRa members possibly) to come forward as well. Incredible bravery and courage by LoveRipWeRRa and I really wish him and anyone else involved the best of luck. Hopefully Gundam gets what he deserves (prison time) and turns over a new leaf in the future.
Woop, good thing I'm Korean.
Seriously, I'm getting tired of Japanese cultural stereotypes being applied to other Asian cultures. Or rather, people viewing China/Korea/Japan etc. as, "pretty much the same thing."
Ya, when you get publicly ousted for molesting a child (and in Korea for being a potential homosexual/bisexual), it's gonna get ugly for you, but it's not because of some bullshit archaic BUSHIDO type code of honour or something.
If I fuck up big time I'm not going to off myself because I "dishonoured" my family or something. I'd be offing myself because all my dignity was stripped away, and I'd have no prospect of a future after something scandalous is on my 'public' record (that's assuming if I was from a conservative Korean background).
I may be nitpicking on semantics, but there is a distinct difference in the way which the words honour and more appropriate words like dignity connote to whatever you're writing.
Back on topic: It's a shame WeRRa disbanded because of this. They really had a talented group of players and I really hope their core players are able to bring something back. I feel real sorry for the kid, shit like that is just so wrong, no matter how "minor" those trolls try to convince you it was. HURF DURF IT WAS ONLY A ZIPPER.
On October 25 2010 12:25 SirDuke wrote: After reading all 20+ pages of this forum it made me think that maybe the kid didn't elaborate entirely on what happened. Sure he did say enough for us to assume that Gundam really did molest him but I don't think anyone outside of the WeRRa clan could really know what happened, (except of course family, friends etc.). My heart defiantly goes out to the kid being strong enough to say what he did, but who knows if thats all that the perv really did to him.
Anyways i hope all goes well for the rest of the WeRRa clan, defiantly a bummer that one pedo gets to destroy an amazing clan (even if he was the manager)
kid was 15, that hardly makes gundam a pedo. technically that's within the realm of ephebophilia and I'm not even sure how old gundam is. probably 20 or something?
what he did was terrible. if he was interested in the kid he should have been upfront and honest about it. i kinda feel bad for gundam that he is too ashamed of his sexuality to just be real about it and has to resort to touching guys in their sleep, that crosses way way over the line.
i really hope the kid gets over it and has a good career in sc2 and that gundam comes to terms with his sexuality and expresses it in a healthier way. it's pretty brave of him to come out about it, a lot of victims of homosexual abuse never talk about it
It's a very unsettling story if true, but please remember that the crimes are alleged and these are real people. We can all agree pedophilia is bad, but out of respect for the accused (who should get his day in court) and the alleged victim, do we really need to discuss this to death online?
Outside of a news purpose, this thread doesn't have a place here IMO. Let the police deal with this...
On October 25 2010 13:11 KiNPiN wrote: it's not pedophilia if the kid's 15.
This is true. Pedophilia is being attracted to pre-pubescent children. Hence the term "jail bait" for girls that are very attractive but still under the legal age of consent.
Pedophilia is way worse. These are the sickos that are attracted to 8 year olds and stuff. That's a whole different ballgame.
That doesn't make this any less terrible though. Molesting a minor is still a really serious offense.
On October 25 2010 13:11 KiNPiN wrote: it's not pedophilia if the kid's 15.
This is true. Pedophilia is being attracted to pre-pubescent children. Hence the term "jail bait" for girls that are very attractive but still under the legal age of consent.
Pedophilia is way worse. These are the sickos that are attracted to 8 year olds and stuff. That's a whole different ballgame.
That doesn't make this any less terrible though. Molesting a minor is still a really serious offense.
On October 25 2010 11:42 TehOne wrote: I think Gundam deserves some credit. He didn't get aggressive and force the rape on the kid. Sure, his attempt was crazy and scary and wrecked the kids life, but just imagine how much worse it would have been had the kid actually been raped.
Gundam probably has a real problem with his head, but he somehow was able to overcome it enough to not go through with the whole thing.
The kid walked away with nothing physically done to him, he is obviously a good player and should continue his career after some help from a psychiatrist.
Having said all this, Gundams actions were very very wrong, but he didn't go way overboard. Some people are born with unfortunately bad minds, it sucks that this kind of thing had to happen.
Are you fucking kidding me dude? Just because he didnt get raped doesnt mean that this dudes actions wont haunt him for the rest of his life, you really need to think before you post garbage like that man. Saying Gundam should get some credit is ludicrous.
That's correct. What we're dealing with is somebody in a position of power who sexually assaulted a younger boy.
"According to part of the Protection of Minors from Sexual Exploitation Law [50], it is a criminal offense to coerce a minor under the age of 19 to a sexual act. Culturally it is not accepted to have sexual act with a minor under the age of 19 even with the consent of the minor at the age of 13 or above, as evidenced by surprise and uproar when a man was acquitted of sexual relationship with a 16-year old teenage runaway in 2001. [51]"
He's both both legally and socially in a shit-load of trouble. It's not paedophilia, but it is basically rape. Socially, it might as well be paedophilia.
At the same time though, don't look at it like he sexually abused a 6-year old. I think we all remember when we were 15 and the hijinx we got up to.
EDIT: It's still a terribly sad turn of events for LoveRip and WeRRa. It's really too bad Gundam resorted to this, don't they have craigslist in Korea?
On October 25 2010 13:48 Zerokaiser wrote: In reply to the recent "It's not paedophilia".
That's correct. What we're dealing with is somebody in a position of power who sexually assaulted a younger boy.
"According to part of the Protection of Minors from Sexual Exploitation Law [50], it is a criminal offense to coerce a minor under the age of 19 to a sexual act. Culturally it is not accepted to have sexual act with a minor under the age of 19 even with the consent of the minor at the age of 13 or above, as evidenced by surprise and uproar when a man was acquitted of sexual relationship with a 16-year old teenage runaway in 2001. [51]"
He's both both legally and socially in a shit-load of trouble. It's not paedophilia, but it is basically rape. Socially, it might as well be paedophilia.
At the same time though, don't look at it like he sexually abused a 6-year old. I think we all remember when we were 15 and the hijinx we got up to.
i absolutely agree with you
the problem is that he molested and exploited a member on his team not that he was 15.
also in response to your craigslist comment he was probably way too ashamed of his sexuality to do something like that, I really doubt he's bisexual. he wouldn't even answer when the kid straight up asked him if he was gay. repressing yourself sexually like that can lead to some extreme things imo
hopefully this experience teaches gundam the dangers of lying to yourself
On October 25 2010 13:59 KiNPiN wrote: Is this even confirmed or just the accusations of a 15 year old?
Do you seriously think there's any chance he just made this up?
I know teenagers are attention whores, but he dropped out of high school for this. That's fucking huge even in the States, but in Korea, that basically means your options (besides progaming) are "go to jail" or "kill yourself."
I say this to you as a Korean male who grew up told, every single time we passed by a homeless man, or a worker at a fast food restaurant, or any black or hispanic man who wasn't wearing a suit, "You're going to end up like that man, and probably die alone and poor, if you don't get straight A's and get in to a good college."
I am not using the phrase "every single time" here as a hyperbole.
That was a totally uncalled for post from Idra. But we aren't making it better by feeding him hate. It's sad to think that I could like a team with a leader like this. To take a kid out of high school to molest him. I don't know what to say.
This is sick sad news. The poor kid. I hope he will learn and understand that most people are not like this man and that the SC2 community is, in general, good people that just love playing games and talking strategy. Good luck to all of the WeRRa members and hopefully no more people will be taken advantage of.
On October 25 2010 05:11 mierin wrote: Unfortunately I think IdrA really only meant literally what he said. He obviously liked playing WeRRa players because he could be confident in the strategies that would be used against him. Unfortunately, a lot of people interpreted "all-in'ed" as a sexual reference, and as such he was temp banned. It might have been a tasteless comment, but at the same time as long as it's only a 2 day ban or so I think IdrA will get the message while not getting brutally punished.
Idra said when he was commentating the GSL that he's noticed that almost everyone on the WeRRa team one-base all-ins, and then falls apart if that fails. Watching the games, he was mostly correct. This gave him useful advance information. Now he's saying that since the clan has fallen apart, he won't have that useful advance information anymore. He is not condoning the molestation of children, he is bemoaning the loss of intel that furthered his chance of making large amounts of money in the tournament and doing it in a funny way. People really need to get a sense of humor.
I feel the need to bring this up since we are deep in the thread now. IdrA's comment wasn't a sexual joke, but more of a bashing towards some members of WeRRa, who do all in builds/plays.
Okay, guys. Stop discussing Idra. This thread is not about him, and this isn't the place to discuss recent bans. The Automated Ban List is where you should go for that. If you believe the problem is big enough, you can bring it up in the Website Feedback subforum. If you want to show support for Idra because he's your hero, he has a Fanclub Thread as well.
Please take advantage of any or all of these alternatives if you have concerns regarding that one crude, insensitive post made 200ish posts ago that had nothing to do with the scandal that caused WeRRa to disband.
On October 25 2010 13:48 Zerokaiser wrote: In reply to the recent "It's not paedophilia".
That's correct. What we're dealing with is somebody in a position of power who sexually assaulted a younger boy.
"According to part of the Protection of Minors from Sexual Exploitation Law [50], it is a criminal offense to coerce a minor under the age of 19 to a sexual act. Culturally it is not accepted to have sexual act with a minor under the age of 19 even with the consent of the minor at the age of 13 or above, as evidenced by surprise and uproar when a man was acquitted of sexual relationship with a 16-year old teenage runaway in 2001. [51]"
He's both both legally and socially in a shit-load of trouble. It's not paedophilia, but it is basically rape. Socially, it might as well be paedophilia.
At the same time though, don't look at it like he sexually abused a 6-year old. I think we all remember when we were 15 and the hijinx we got up to.
EDIT: It's still a terribly sad turn of events for LoveRip and WeRRa. It's really too bad Gundam resorted to this, don't they have craigslist in Korea?
I don't know what you're quoting, but it differs from country to country. Here in Australia the age of consent is 16 for men and women, and 18 for gay men. Differs from place to place.
On October 25 2010 05:11 mierin wrote: Unfortunately I think IdrA really only meant literally what he said. He obviously liked playing WeRRa players because he could be confident in the strategies that would be used against him. Unfortunately, a lot of people interpreted "all-in'ed" as a sexual reference, and as such he was temp banned. It might have been a tasteless comment, but at the same time as long as it's only a 2 day ban or so I think IdrA will get the message while not getting brutally punished.
Idra said when he was commentating the GSL that he's noticed that almost everyone on the WeRRa team one-base all-ins, and then falls apart if that fails. Watching the games, he was mostly correct. This gave him useful advance information. Now he's saying that since the clan has fallen apart, he won't have that useful advance information anymore. He is not condoning the molestation of children, he is bemoaning the loss of intel that furthered his chance of making large amounts of money in the tournament and doing it in a funny way. People really need to get a sense of humor.
I feel the need to bring this up since we are deep in the thread now. IdrA's comment wasn't a sexual joke, but more of a bashing towards some members of WeRRa, who do all in builds/plays.
i don't think it was a sexual joke, but knowing idra, his remark was kinda disdaining WeRRa imo and no matter how you interpret his remark (a reasonable interpretation) it was posted in a thread regarding a serious matter and his remark obviously does not show any concerns of that matter, which is a bit disappointing. Almost like he has no sympathy.
On October 25 2010 12:25 SirDuke wrote: After reading all 20+ pages of this forum it made me think that maybe the kid didn't elaborate entirely on what happened. Sure he did say enough for us to assume that Gundam really did molest him but I don't think anyone outside of the WeRRa clan could really know what happened, (except of course family, friends etc.). My heart defiantly goes out to the kid being strong enough to say what he did, but who knows if thats all that the perv really did to him.
Anyways i hope all goes well for the rest of the WeRRa clan, defiantly a bummer that one pedo gets to destroy an amazing clan (even if he was the manager)
I was thinking the same thing...just because he said that's all that happened publicly doesn't mean that's it. South Korea does have "shame" and "face" regardless of what the asiaphiles here want to say, and it is plausible that the kid did not want to divulge the entirety of what happened to him in a public forum.
I didnt think all of werra's were one base all ins. Phoenixwerra is pretty good Sangho is just really good.... He wouldve went far. Cellawerra though may not be as good as phoenix is a very nice guy and internet personality. I'm sure these guys will find a clan.
On October 25 2010 13:59 KiNPiN wrote: Is this even confirmed or just the accusations of a 15 year old?
WeRRa wouldn't disband because of an unconfirmed rumour.
from what i gathered, as soon as loveripWeRRa ran away from gundam, he posted the incident and members decided to quit 1 by 1. I haven't seen any reports of police investigating on this incident or gundam getting arrested. You would think WeRRa wouldn't disband because of an unconfirmed rumour but you have to understand that people in korea are more sensitive compared to people from other countries and despite whether or not the rumour is true or false, it can be very incriminating to the point that even if the rumour is confirmed as false, the damages that it caused remains unfixed. Sounds pretty irrational doesn't it? But korea's society is one where sexism ( general discrimination imo) is ingrained in the society (ironic considering korea is one of the countries that opt for globalisation and lean towards the ideals of U.S). If shit like sexism being ingrained in a society is possible, i don't see why such irrationalities like acting over an unconfirmed rumour is impossible. I could give proof and reasoning to prove korea's society is such but that would take up too much words to put in this post.
I don't get all the fuss, unconfirmed accusations. Even if they were true and I'm not sure if I'll get banned for this but it's just my opinion. Sure it's not ideal or anything but, nothing that bad actually happened? Seems like a mountain's been made of a molehill. I'm sure a lot will disagree with the severity of this all but to me these unconfirmed, non-serious accusations are just overblown. The guy is 15, not 6.
On October 24 2010 06:53 unbal3 wrote: Q= Questioning.
@Phayze It saddens me that this had to happen, and I am afraid this is going to cast a negative light on gays, when the real problem is the fact that this guy molested a minor. knowing my fellow koreans, though, an unfair negative light on gays is probably going to be inevitable and this incident is just going to fuel the confirmation bias in some people. as for an heroes, though... i'm not so sure, but yeah.
google "an hero" , I believe gundam will go to extremes and kill himself. I dont think he will get over his actions.
An hero is just a term used to describe someone who commits suicide over the internet. I dont actually think hes a hero by ANY means. He'd be a villian if anything.
How can you believe that he will kill himself? Do you know him personally? Have you spoken to him at length? Have you been in his position before? Have you ever known someone that has been in his position? If not, then be quiet and don't jump to suicide.
Suicide is a very personal action, that is different for each person, I can't speak to the culture of Korea but something like this is seriously upsetting in America, something that will ruin a career and a person's life.
However, as you'll figure out eventually once you gain some age, just because you get put in a tough spot sometimes you have to push through, not just give up and check out.
Suicide is the ultimate giving up, the ultimate surrendering and is something that should not be taken so lightly in the fact that you are just saying he's going to kill himself.
Homosexuality is also looked down upon heavily in korean culture, molesting a minor will imprint a record on him for the rest of his life, making it hard for him to get jobs (It's nearly impossible to get a decent job in Korea if you have a criminal record, the Betting scandal should have told you that),He will not be able to make a future for himself. With the addition of him not being straight and it being a male minor, his family will get much slander. Yes, Suicide is very personal in North america, but our culture is NOT based around honor. In many koreans eyes killing yourself is the best way to regain your lost honor. for example If you google male celebrity suicides in korea many of the stories that will pop up will be based on sexual orientation. Its terrible to say, but theres a good chance these are the steps Gundam will take.
Killerbot, I cannot believe you told me to grow up? When ironically you're the one who is being naive.
Korea isn't fucking Japan.
Why are people (who are not from Korea and I doubt know anything about the culture) being so stubborn about this? From what I've read from the previous quoted post as well as another SOUTH KOREAN post, this is in fact the way the Korean culture looks at this kinda of thing. I personally cannot attest to this as I know next to nothing about Korea, but it seems these guys do so I would hear them out. However, it would be nice to get some clarification from someone who is from Korea because this is an important point.
Anyways, to be more on topic, as horrible as this is it is great that LoveRipWeRRa came out with this because chances are he was not the first one, so this will open the doors for more WeRRa (or non WeRRa members possibly) to come forward as well. Incredible bravery and courage by LoveRipWeRRa and I really wish him and anyone else involved the best of luck. Hopefully Gundam gets what he deserves (prison time) and turns over a new leaf in the future.
Woop, good thing I'm Korean.
Seriously, I'm getting tired of Japanese cultural stereotypes being applied to other Asian cultures. Or rather, people viewing China/Korea/Japan etc. as, "pretty much the same thing."
Ya, when you get publicly ousted for molesting a child (and in Korea for being a potential homosexual/bisexual), it's gonna get ugly for you, but it's not because of some bullshit archaic BUSHIDO type code of honour or something.
If I fuck up big time I'm not going to off myself because I "dishonoured" my family or something. I'd be offing myself because all my dignity was stripped away, and I'd have no prospect of a future after something scandalous is on my 'public' record (that's assuming if I was from a conservative Korean background).
I may be nitpicking on semantics, but there is a distinct difference in the way which the words honour and more appropriate words like dignity connote to whatever you're writing.
Back on topic: It's a shame WeRRa disbanded because of this. They really had a talented group of players and I really hope their core players are able to bring something back. I feel real sorry for the kid, shit like that is just so wrong, no matter how "minor" those trolls try to convince you it was. HURF DURF IT WAS ONLY A ZIPPER.
"The high rate of suicide in Japan may be linked to this societal structure, as well as in South Korea, where there is a similar shame society"
"South Korea recently surpassed Japan in having the highest suicide rate among the 30 OECD countries"
There's correlation between high suicide rates and the way Korean society is structured, yes. Conservative Korea does have a culture of shame society, but there's no expectation to commit sepukku to regain "lost honour." I believe it's because of the nature of Korean society being ultra competitive (having 60+ million people crammed into that tiny peninsula will make that happen), not to mention that Korean media and Korean netizens are ruthless.
There is no causation between "honour" and high suicide rates in South Korea.
You've have not proven anything to me that says South Korea runs on some "honour" code.
On October 25 2010 15:04 Subversive wrote: I don't know what you're quoting, but it differs from country to country. Here in Australia the age of consent is 16 for men and women, and 18 for gay men. Differs from place to place.
A govt PDF here shows that all states consent is 16 for both genders and all hetero and homo sex (im assuming that includes anal) except SA and Tas which is 17 and QLD which discriminates and is 18 for homosexual sex 16 for hetero (regardless of where you stick it i guess).
On October 25 2010 17:41 veganwa wrote: So what you're saying is that Koreans are 1-indexed, while westerners are 0-indexed?
not exactly. East Asian cultures have newborns begin at age 1, then add a year every Lunar New Year. so the age difference can be 1 or 2 depending on when the birthday is in relation to Lunar New Years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_age_reckoning
For official government uses, documents, and legal procedures, the Western age system is used. Regulations regarding age limits on alcohol and tobacco use, as well as the age of consent, are all based on the Western system.
On October 25 2010 17:56 JBanKs wrote: some very sick people about.
I think you mean there are some people of different sexual orientations about. (I dont know Gundam's age but anything less than perhaps 8 years difference doesnt surprise me at all). Not letting him change clothes isn't acceptable, but being bi/gay in a society where you realistically cant express or be yourself to others properly, necessarily means things like these happen, lets not misinterpret how much of a 'sicko' gundam must be.
There's quite a bit of naive and perhaps misdirected gay bashing in this thread. imo
On October 25 2010 17:56 JBanKs wrote: some very sick people about.
I think you mean there are some people of different sexual orientations about. (I dont know Gundam's age but anything less than perhaps 8 years difference doesnt surprise me at all). Not letting him change clothes isn't acceptable, but being bi/gay in a society where you realistically cant express or be yourself to others properly, necessarily means things like these happen, lets not misinterpret how much of a 'sicko' gundam must be.
There's quite a bit of naive and perhaps misdirected gay bashing in this thread. imo
It is not like youre making it out in korea in regard to gay culture. Of course it is not as prevalent so that would create more un-ease, but I know personally two people that are teaching there, one of them is gay and is teaching in seoul and he says its better there than in the US. no ones bashing gay people in here, stop crying wolf and creating a non existent problem.
On October 24 2010 06:36 251 wrote: is it not possible for him to re-enter high school once he puts this past him? probably are some really difficult hoops to jump through though since it is Korea.... well any way you slice it, dropping out of high school to do progaming is not a wise move in itself.
sorry for digging up an old post, but coming to vancouver canada or san fran would be good options for him.
there's a huge and very friendly korean community here, and a lot of the korean students at the local high school here are actually two-three years behind due to various paperwork issues and stuff.
shame what happened to his starcraft career, but life's not all that bad for him just yet.
no ones bashing gay people in here, stop crying wolf and creating a non existent problem.
It's the discourse that a few people use that I think is gay bashing, using words like pedo when the kid is 15/16, 'very sick people', 'gruesome'. I think we need to find Gundams age to verify the level of angst we should really be feeling here.
Also I am biased, cos im gay. Im living in japan this year, so i know what its like to be gay, be gay in asia and have more insight than non gays into what is or isnt a problem for me/'us'. Also Gay is the new Black so i appreciate what your saying about crying wolf. I just can't stop crying untill I feel equal.
Edit: Got a line from Google saying hes 32, can anyone confirm?
-- This is a significant age difference, and yes, makes it a worse and more 'gruesome' crime. I just hope that the words people use to flame and vilify gundamwerra, however justified dont focus too much on just the fact that he is a man and did this crime to a young male.
On October 25 2010 17:56 JBanKs wrote: some very sick people about.
I think you mean there are some people of different sexual orientations about. (I dont know Gundam's age but anything less than perhaps 8 years difference doesnt surprise me at all). Not letting him change clothes isn't acceptable, but being bi/gay in a society where you realistically cant express or be yourself to others properly, necessarily means things like these happen, lets not misinterpret how much of a 'sicko' gundam must be.
There's quite a bit of naive and perhaps misdirected gay bashing in this thread. imo
Uhh, I haven't seen this gay bashing you speak of. I can't speak for everyone, but I for one don't care what Gundam does with another consenting adult. What I do care for, and what we are calling him sick for, is deciding to fiddle with a 15/16 (depending on how you zero the age) boy's pants/crotch region.
On October 25 2010 17:56 JBanKs wrote: some very sick people about.
I think you mean there are some people of different sexual orientations about. (I dont know Gundam's age but anything less than perhaps 8 years difference doesnt surprise me at all). Not letting him change clothes isn't acceptable, but being bi/gay in a society where you realistically cant express or be yourself to others properly, necessarily means things like these happen, lets not misinterpret how much of a 'sicko' gundam must be.
There's quite a bit of naive and perhaps misdirected gay bashing in this thread. imo
Anyone defending sexual harassment/molestation is either very ignorant, harboring sexual molester sympathies, or is a huge troll. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and say youre a troll, but I will feed you just this once.
The only thing you mention that isnt acceptable by your standards is not letting him change clothes? Really? So the putting his head right on his crotch and unzipping his pants didnt strike you as wrong?
And no, just because people are gay/bi in a society where they cant realistically express themselves to others doesnt necessarily mean things like this will happen. Regardless of whether or not you are hetero or homosexual, touching someone in a sexual way without their consent is not acceptable. It has nothing to do with society not accepting your sexual preference. That brings me to my next point. What about the heterosexual molestation incidents that happen all over the world? It must be the fault of our cruel society that makes it difficult for straight people to express their sexuality...?
These are cases where individuals cannot control their sexual urges and selfishly choose to violate other people's dignity to satisfy their own urges. Trying to defend someone who traumatized a teenager likely for the rest of his life under the pretense of combating "naivete and misdirected gay bashing" is over-dramatic and pathetic, and trying to blame the crime on Korean society in general is ridiculous.
Furthermore, by suggesting that people shouldnt be repulsed by a sicko like Gundam because of the pressures of his environment and society in general, you must extend that to everyone who is a victim of their environment, namely pretty much every damn criminal in history. Do you get mad at people who are disgusted by the Unibomber? He was a victim of his environment and upbringing. What about other serial killers? The fact of the matter is, there are many people who go through tough environments, but most of them dont feel the need to share their pain with everyone else. It sucks that these criminals had tough upbringings, but that doesnt change the fact that they are hurting other people and hurting society.
You make some valid points, but you have way over read what im trying to say. Gone way past any point of scientific relevance, and IMO (im sorry if this offends) missed my point regarding gay repression and the related prevalence of inappropriate sexual behavior.
I'm coming from a 'lets try to see this a little differently, i.e. its not the gendered issue, its the age and consent issue, and not react in a damaging way to innocent people, i.e. gays in general'. I'm probably too defensive, I just like bringing up these challenging ideas with others who probably seldom think about it. (AgentMulder: Are we really concerned that he wanted some sort of sexual activity with a 15 yr old (I'm pretty sure tons of men are into young-related porn), or more concerned he decided to take a youths liberty, abuse and betray his trust and mentally terrorise him)
None of my posts were meant to be trolls and I doubt i'll be posting about this topic in this thread again to avoid just that.
You know, I knoe I shouldn't dignify such remarks with a response, but as you seem to like shooting yourself in the foot, the least I can do is point it out.
I am refering to this line.
Are we really concerned that he wanted some sort of sexual activity with a 15 yr old (I'm pretty sure tons of men are into young-related porn), or more concerned he decided to take a youths liberty, abuse and betray his trust and mentally terrorise him
And how did he mentally terrorize him? How did he take away his liberty? By making him practice SC, or by groping his crotch? Get real.
In any society when you have a grown man looking for some kind of satisfaction from someone 15+ years their junior, that man has a problem. I don't give a shit if he's straight, gay, or Tim Curry from Rocky Horror. You seem to be going what the Vatican did with the abusive priests, try and blame it on repressed homosexuality. Being gay does not mean you like children in that way. If Gundam had sought help for his impulses before doing anything I might feel a little sorry for him, but he didn't. He instead decided to act on said impulses and you have the story as it is now.
Well he didn't allow him to leave the room (liberty), he made the kid prefer to stay up all night, losing SC games because he was so affected (mentally terrorised) and betrayed him as a coach/friend/talent scout.
no ones bashing gay people in here, stop crying wolf and creating a non existent problem.
It's the discourse that a few people use that I think is gay bashing, using words like pedo when the kid is 15/16, 'very sick people', 'gruesome'. I think we need to find Gundams age to verify the level of angst we should really be feeling here.
Also I am biased, cos im gay. Im living in japan this year, so i know what its like to be gay, be gay in asia and have more insight than non gays into what is or isnt a problem for me/'us'. Also Gay is the new Black so i appreciate what your saying about crying wolf. I just can't stop crying untill I feel equal.
Edit: Got a line from Google saying hes 32, can anyone confirm?
-- This is a significant age difference, and yes, makes it a worse and more 'gruesome' crime. I just hope that the words people use to flame and vilify gundamwerra, however justified dont focus too much on just the fact that he is a man and did this crime to a young male.
what do you mean confirm the level of angst we should be feeling here? It's not whether or not he's gay that's wrong it's the fact that he tried to make a move on him without the others consent (read: rape) I'm tired of fucking gay people just instantly saying "STOP BASHING THE GAY GUY OMG STOP JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS". That's like me inviting a girl over to my house for the night and when she falls a sleep I'm undoing her pants. I doubt anyone would defend me saying "STOP BASHING THE STRAIGHT GUY" then. I have no issues with gays i have issues with people who try to get in my pants without my consent.
"i have issues with people who try to get in my pants without my consent", which is somewhat likely to be a gay guy, close to your age, who really likes you because your funny, smart and good looking, but doesn't know how to approach you or talk about his feelings because it doesn't really exist in his society and thinks (blindly, as love goes..) that you will like him back
Oh god, i said i wouldnt post, but thats the last one. If it goes over your heads, enjoy your page long rants.
gg
Believe me, before I turned 18 and had access to gay bars/clubs and expanded my gay friends circle (from 0), I stumbled through this kind of encounter... :/ not cool for either party. I wasn't exactly going to buy him flowers and take him on a dinner date to a fancy resturant, physical desire is far stronger than romantic desire, at least for me, and I think most men would agree. On the flip side, unrelated to this thread at all now, I have come out to and had decent conversations with guys who said they wern't interested because they didn't like guys and then couldnt look me in the eyes when we met again later.. who turned out to be gay but were too confused or scared to reciprocate. So don't think that homo=straight but for the same gender, in this world at this time, it doesnt.
<THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT TOPIC FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND>
I hope all the affected players find suitable teams and continue to enjoy their e-careers, especially LoveRIP (which is now super ironic) :D!
On October 25 2010 22:26 Eddie.Aus wrote: "i have issues with people who try to get in my pants without my consent", which is somewhat likely to be a gay guy, close to your age, who really likes you because your funny, smart and good looking, but doesn't know how to approach you or talk about his feelings because it doesn't really exist in his society and thinks (blindly, as love goes..) that you will like him back
Oh god, i said i wouldnt post, but thats the last one. If it goes over your heads, enjoy your page long rants.
gg
Believe me, before I turned 18 and had access to gay bars/clubs and expanded my gay friends circle (from 0), I stumbled through this kind of encounter... :/ not cool for either party. I wasn't exactly going to buy him flowers and take him on a dinner date to a fancy resturant, physical desire is far stronger than romantic desire, at least for me, and I think most men would agree.
<THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT TOPIC FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND>
I hope all the affected players find suitable teams and continue to enjoy their e-careers, especially LoveRIP (which is now super ironic) :D!
Umm please stop posting because ur embarring Australia......
The fact that u try and "See it from a different perspecive" because he is homosexual is ridiculous.
Any social Repression to gay culture in korea is not even close to a viable reason to take the actions that Gundam Took.
Basically your saying " Because gay culture is repressed, and its scary to come out, i can sort of understand that a gay person might hit on a person in such a manner"...
Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them - This statement ONLY APPLYS TO CONSENTING ADULTS
This issue goes way past homosexual rights, of which no one in this thread evens gives as shit about in the 1st place. I almost want to give u shit for being gay for the fact that u have hijacked this thread and even brought this issue up in the 1st place.
This was an attempted act of molestion. I believe people who do this should be executed. Funny enough i dont believe in Capital punishment though.
Only because i dont trust the system. Not because i dont think rapists and peadohpiles shouldnt be removed from society like the noxious cancers that they are. I actually find rape more severe than murder, because we are human and the most violent aggressive species on the planet and sometimes that genetic drive gets the better of us...
Not saying i think murderer's should not be punished, but i am saying that a person has to live with being sexually assualted for the rest of their lives and it kills a part of them inside, i have known quite a few people who have been sexually assaulted and it makes me sick to think about the way their innocence has been taken away and their lives literally destroyed, it takes them A LIFE TIME to even try and rebuild what they had and i have seen that, truly they can never rebuild that life they had before.
Murder can happen accidently and shit, from a bar fight that gets too far etc. Rape, that is when u identify sick impules within urself and then decide to act on them instead of getting help and finding the cause or event in ur life that has twisted u into that need of control. Rape is not about sex, it is about control. Any psychologist will tell u that... Thats why i see rape as worse than murder. Rape u contemplate and plan and develop over time ( this can happen with murderers too im not saying its dosnt, merely stating some murders happen spontaneously )
Anways, i have a habit of ranting so i will finish up. Gundam should kill himself and it actually shocked me to read one of the other members statements that he said to gundam in regards to taking care of himself etc etc etc. People who do this dont get ANY sympathy from me. You had your chance to get help long before u commited the act, because anyone who does that shit thinks about it within themselves for a long time before they act on it.
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
If you make your move by not asking them, pulling down their zipper and trying to put your hand in their panty, then they should punch you.
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
EXACTLY - YES IT IS FINE for a women to punch me in the head if i try and unbutton her pants without even asking. There is a process to getting to the point of taking of a womens pants, and it generally involves speaking to them 1st, Finding out if they like u 2nd, Kissing Them to see if they like you on that level 3rd, Then INVITING THEM to your house or what ever 4th. See there is quite a few steps to getting into anyones pants.....
YES i do confirm there sexual oriention via CONVERSATION with set women before trying anything with them, its called CHATTING THEM UP
On October 25 2010 22:53 kojinshugi wrote: So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
Why the hell wouldn't you? Do you realize how wrong it would be if you didn't?
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
That goes for all people, btw, whether they are straight or not. Meaning: You should check they like you (as in you SPECIFICALLY) in that way before you make a move on them. That involves confirming the other person's sexual orientation, among other things (such as whether or not they are actually attracted to you, which, to the dismay of many people, Gundam ignored to do).
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
EXACTLY - YES IT IS FINE for a women to punch me in the head if i try and unbutton her pants without even asking. There is a process to getting to the point of taking of a womens pants, and it generally involves speaking to them 1st, Finding out if they like u 2nd, Kissing Them to see if they like you on that level 3rd, Then INVITING THEM to your house or what ever 4th. See there is quite a few steps to getting into anyones pants.....
Skipping those 4 + steps is possible in two ways: money or force. Neither should be legal imo.
As someone who is gay, I have to say, there is no other side to see in this story. If everything happened the way LoveRip says it did, then Gundam is 100% in the wrong. What happened to LoveRip was awful, and I feel quite bad for him.
I read every post, so here is my summary of points.
1. MT is members training, not members trip ^^ but who cares when the guys is saying Motel.
2. Idra, that cracked me up, cause (a) I couldn't believe you actually wrote that (b) it was funny- take the temp ban on the chin like a man! keke (c) I'll buy you a beer and introduce myself formally next time we meet.
3.mod edit: this is not the BW progamer V-Gundam, in case people are wondering! I WAS WONDERING, we lived together for a bit and I was like wtf is this, there ain't no way it's him..
4. Koreans suicide as a 'gg on life' or to take on the financial or legal blame of others (in the case of money lenders or prosecution', or in rare cases as a protests against some injustice against them (to bring the authorities to investigate or to ensure there will be a heavier sentence against the accuser when/if they are prosecuted themselves); Additionally, the modern reasons for suicide in both Korea and Japan are due to extreme competitive pressures and not for traditional honour in either case, thus the uber high rates in modern times. But, I don't know in Japan, but in Korea then even form suicide communities/forums to meet up with people to end their lives together. Korea is a modern day sick competitive Sparta where only the mentally strong survive regardless of class or money (but that helps a hellva lot, but even the Samsung's chairman's daughter committed suicide a few years back-but that was out of a forbidden love issue-she was in love with the driver or something to those lines..)
5.THIS IS 100% MOLESTATION why?? In Korea, men, we shower with each other, walk around naked with each other, scrub each others backs and even get other grown men to take towels and scrub our entire naked bodies with it and soap, not to mention we attack each other's bum holes with sticks and try to smack each other in the nuts every once in a while (that's a phase though) and on the more romantic side, we hold hands when we sit together, we hug each other, we fall asleep on each others laps when we are tired, I personally force my dong-sengs (little brothers) to kiss me on the cheek when they see me and we give each other massages on the bed and also feed each other when we go drinking and are drunk but normally just give some gogi (bbq meat) on their plate, and we sleep in the same bed together. DOES THIS NOT SOUND GAY? Yes to westerners and probably everyone else in the world, but to Korean guys, its how we are just close and express our love and friendship and comfortable feelings with one another.
So when a kids says, he was molested, DAMN HE WAS, because when we do all these things, there is this feeling of being comfortable and the state of male bonding, we call it 'uri' - like the love of men's friendship between men, so its not GAY, its uri, but he don't feel the uri and some guy is touching his zipper and has gay porn on his comp, the entire feeling of uri is stripped away and he feels GREAT BETRAYAL and VIOLATION. Its like the biggest shock in the entire world on so many levels especially as you guys know, when they are in the pro-gaming sukso(training house) they live and eat and train together 24 hours and its every day, the team is your family. I can't explain it more than that, but if you guys came to korea, you'd think we're all gay, but actually our population is mostly straight and while we have some visible gay community and a trans sexual community, we aren't walking around with hard-on in these massive saunas with a hundred guys naked at any given time.
BUT THE MAIN POINT IS: The kid was violated on so many levels and if he was my little brother and at 15, I would beat the fuck out of the weRRAGundam for not being gay or bi, but for doing that and the fact that he is 32, so he knows what the fuck is up.
So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
no ones bashing gay people in here, stop crying wolf and creating a non existent problem.
It's the discourse that a few people use that I think is gay bashing, using words like pedo when the kid is 15/16, 'very sick people', 'gruesome'. I think we need to find Gundams age to verify the level of angst we should really be feeling here.
Also I am biased, cos im gay. Im living in japan this year, so i know what its like to be gay, be gay in asia and have more insight than non gays into what is or isnt a problem for me/'us'. Also Gay is the new Black so i appreciate what your saying about crying wolf. I just can't stop crying untill I feel equal.
Edit: Got a line from Google saying hes 32, can anyone confirm?
-- This is a significant age difference, and yes, makes it a worse and more 'gruesome' crime. I just hope that the words people use to flame and vilify gundamwerra, however justified dont focus too much on just the fact that he is a man and did this crime to a young male.
gay is the new black? wtf are you talking about man, I can't tell if youre serious or not. Trying to force your idea of "opening people's minds" to things they haven't thought of before relating to gay culture is not the thing to do in this thread.
On October 26 2010 00:59 MightyAtom wrote: I read every post, so here is my summary of points.
1. MT is members training, not members trip ^^ but who cares when the guys is saying Motel.
2. Idra, that cracked me up, cause (a) I couldn't believe you actually wrote that (b) it was funny- take the temp ban on the chin like a man! keke (c) I'll buy you a beer and introduce myself formally next time we meet.
3.mod edit: this is not the BW progamer V-Gundam, in case people are wondering! I WAS WONDERING, we lived together for a bit and I was like wtf is this, there ain't no way it's him..
4. Koreans suicide as a 'gg on life' or to take on the financial or legal blame of others (in the case of money lenders or prosecution', or in rare cases as a protests against some injustice against them (to bring the authorities to investigate or to ensure there will be a heavier sentence against the accuser when/if they are prosecuted themselves); Additionally, the modern reasons for suicide in both Korea and Japan are due to extreme competitive pressures and not for traditional honour in either case, thus the uber high rates in modern times. But, I don't know in Japan, but in Korea then even form suicide communities/forums to meet up with people to end their lives together. Korea is a modern day sick competitive Sparta where only the mentally strong survive regardless of class or money (but that helps a hellva lot, but even the Samsung's chairman's daughter committed suicide a few years back-but that was out of a forbidden love issue-she was in love with the driver or something to those lines..)
5.THIS IS 100% MOLESTATION why?? In Korea, men, we shower with each other, walk around naked with each other, scrub each others backs and even get other grown men to take towels and scrub our entire naked bodies with it and soap, not to mention we attack each other's bum holes with sticks and try to smack each other in the nuts every once in a while (that's a phase though) and on the more romantic side, we hold hands when we sit together, we hug each other, we fall asleep on each others laps when we are tired, I personally force my dong-sengs (little brothers) to kiss me on the cheek when they see me and we give each other massages on the bed and also feed each other when we go drinking and are drunk but normally just give some gogi (bbq meat) on their plate, and we sleep in the same bed together. DOES THIS NOT SOUND GAY? Yes to westerners and probably everyone else in the world, but to Korean guys, its how we are just close and express our love and friendship and comfortable feelings with one another.
So when a kids says, he was molested, DAMN HE WAS, because when we do all these things, there is this feeling of being comfortable and the state of male bonding, we call it 'uri' - like the love of men's friendship between men, so its not GAY, its uri, but he don't feel the uri and some guy is touching his zipper and has gay porn on his comp, the entire feeling of uri is stripped away and he feels GREAT BETRAYAL and VIOLATION. Its like the biggest shock in the entire world on so many levels especially as you guys know, when they are in the pro-gaming sukso(training house) they live and eat and train together 24 hours and its every day, the team is your family. I can't explain it more than that, but if you guys came to korea, you'd think we're all gay, but actually our population is mostly straight and while we have some visible gay community and a trans sexual community, we aren't walking around with hard-on in these massive saunas with a hundred guys naked at any given time.
BUT THE MAIN POINT IS: The kid was violated on so many levels and if he was my little brother and at 15, I would beat the fuck out of the weRRAGundam for not being gay or bi, but for doing that and the fact that he is 32, so he knows what the fuck is up.
So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
6. It's a fucking serious issue on all levels
Irda ^^
Thank you for this post MightAtom, I think this cleared some very important points for us. We puny westerners have no idea (in most cases) how Korean culture/society works outside of Starcraft and are quick to throw our own moral and cultural standards into play. I had no idea about this term "uri". Very interesting, thank you again sir.
people need to learn what the age of consent means, yes there was unwanted sexual contact but since the age of consent is 14 in korea (unsure is if its 14kr or 14 western), and the boy is 16 Korean (15 western?)
It doesnt violate the sexual contact with a minor under 13 law.
It does however violate the coercion of sexual acts of a minor under 19
But people need to learn some reading comprehension because this is just embarrassing, and if you go by the US age of consent that diffrers from state to state 14-18, with the age of consent at 14 having some rules.
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
EXACTLY - YES IT IS FINE for a women to punch me in the head if i try and unbutton her pants without even asking. There is a process to getting to the point of taking of a womens pants, and it generally involves speaking to them 1st, Finding out if they like u 2nd, Kissing Them to see if they like you on that level 3rd, Then INVITING THEM to your house or what ever 4th. See there is quite a few steps to getting into anyones pants.....
Skipping those 4 + steps is possible in two ways: money or force. Neither should be legal imo.
Disagree with money, hookers been around for 10,000 years or more, some women have no talents and now way to survive, its their choice its their bodys who are you to say they cant do that???
It has a place in society too, its an outlet for male desires and without that outlet it would be bad for scoiety...
Any place that has made prostitution illegal suffers from prostitures getting abused, murdered etc. Its unsafe for them when u make it illegal. U legalize it, it makes it so they are safe, the johns are safe because the hookers are not diseased and diseases in general arnt being spread randomly......
Seriously, the concept of illegalizing things like prostitution ( and drugs ) , or anything that is a PERSONAL FREEDOM and not hurting others in the process of doing it, is a retarded concept that is self destructive to society......
Treat others how u want to be treated , golden rule of the world. I dont want kunts telling me what to do when it has nothing to do with them...... So i dont tell people what to do in their life when it dosnt hurt me or anyone else...
NOOOOOO WeRRa was my favoriteee clan in WC3, everyone was so good/cool and had the sickest names and the best (imo) tag of any guild..
god damn idiots abusing positions of trust/power. please reform werra, without this Gundam person =/ poor kid he sounds SO messed up, dropped out of hs for that... fuck.
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
EXACTLY - YES IT IS FINE for a women to punch me in the head if i try and unbutton her pants without even asking. There is a process to getting to the point of taking of a womens pants, and it generally involves speaking to them 1st, Finding out if they like u 2nd, Kissing Them to see if they like you on that level 3rd, Then INVITING THEM to your house or what ever 4th. See there is quite a few steps to getting into anyones pants.....
Skipping those 4 + steps is possible in two ways: money or force. Neither should be legal imo.
Disagree with money, hookers been around for 10,000 years or more, some women have no talents and now way to survive, its their choice its their bodys who are you to say they cant do that???
It has a place in society too, its an outlet for male desires and without that outlet it would be bad for scoiety...
Any place that has made prostitution illegal suffers from prostitures getting abused, murdered etc. Its unsafe for them when u make it illegal. U legalize it, it makes it so they are safe, the johns are safe because the hookers are not diseased and diseases in general arnt being spread randomly......
Seriously, the concept of illegalizing things like prostitution ( and drugs ) , or anything that is a PERSONAL FREEDOM and not hurting others in the process of doing it, is a retarded concept that is self destructive to society......
Treat others how u want to be treated , golden rule of the world. I dont want kunts telling me what to do when it has nothing to do with them...... So i dont tell people what to do in their life when it dosnt hurt me or anyone else...
I respect your opinion on prostitution, but mine is justdifferent ( too tired too explain the viewpoint). Thats why I wrote "imo" At least we agree on the second part.
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
EXACTLY - YES IT IS FINE for a women to punch me in the head if i try and unbutton her pants without even asking. There is a process to getting to the point of taking of a womens pants, and it generally involves speaking to them 1st, Finding out if they like u 2nd, Kissing Them to see if they like you on that level 3rd, Then INVITING THEM to your house or what ever 4th. See there is quite a few steps to getting into anyones pants.....
YES i do confirm there sexual oriention via CONVERSATION with set women before trying anything with them, its called CHATTING THEM UP
you invite them to your house? i do it baller style in the car.
5.THIS IS 100% MOLESTATION why?? In Korea, men, we shower with each other, walk around naked with each other, scrub each others backs and even get other grown men to take towels and scrub our entire naked bodies with it and soap, not to mention we attack each other's bum holes with sticks and try to smack each other in the nuts every once in a while (that's a phase though) and on the more romantic side, we hold hands when we sit together, we hug each other, we fall asleep on each others laps when we are tired, I personally force my dong-sengs (little brothers) to kiss me on the cheek when they see me and we give each other massages on the bed and also feed each other when we go drinking and are drunk but normally just give some gogi (bbq meat) on their plate, and we sleep in the same bed together. DOES THIS NOT SOUND GAY? Yes to westerners and probably everyone else in the world, but to Korean guys, its how we are just close and express our love and friendship and comfortable feelings with one another.
is this true in china too? every chinese guy i've met (not including chinese-americans who were raised here) has no concept of personal space
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
not to mention idra was accepted @ some university in the states to study "theoretical physics".
Should he ever quit gaming, he can go on and do something else he ENJOYS.
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
not to mention idra was accepted @ some university in the states to study "theoretical physics".
Should he ever quit gaming, he can go on and do something else he ENJOYS.
You sure it wasn't Waterloo, we made that department for Stephen Hawking and now he is here, doing physics, theoretically.
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
not to mention idra was accepted @ some university in the states to study "theoretical physics".
Should he ever quit gaming, he can go on and do something else he ENJOYS.
You sure it wasn't Waterloo, we made that department for Stephen Hawking and now he is here, doing physics, theoretically.
If idrA is smart enough to get into an advanced program for theoretical physics, it's pretty sad he chose to be a professional - especially one demanding so much time and so little intellectual development.
Damn too bad something like that happen to that kid, good call at finishing with the team, I wonder what team will PhoenixWerra go to, cuz hes quite good despite his recent lose @ GSL. well what about Liquid`Cella...nvm we got Liquid`Ret already ^^
On October 25 2010 00:51 WhoaDrugs wrote: Unbelievable that Idra. What a &$#@%^. You think you are a "badass". You play video games for a living. Good luck when you retire at 30 with no other job skills or education to make a living. 씨발
at least he saw the world, and did what he enjoyed for most of his working life. Compared to 99% of the population who sit at their desk and hate their job.
not to mention idra was accepted @ some university in the states to study "theoretical physics".
Should he ever quit gaming, he can go on and do something else he ENJOYS.
You sure it wasn't Waterloo, we made that department for Stephen Hawking and now he is here, doing physics, theoretically.
If idrA is smart enough to get into an advanced program for theoretical physics, it's pretty sad he chose to be a professional - especially one demanding so much time and so little intellectual development.
How can you say that? He followed his dreams to be a professional gamer. Most people give up and end up doing something they hate. I'd love to be in his position, and I'm a senior about to get my business degree.
omg... thats a terible blow at such an age... especially considering all the insight given by the koreans here... i hope he gets it together and finds his way back to school and/or progaming soon, such a shame really...
and too bad for all the WeRRa-clan guys watching Cella's stream atm ist just painfull (seen the drunken perfomance? .. just sad..)
i hope this doesnt affect sc2 in generall too much in korea...
on a sidenote: yea! i totally agree TRG!
just because someone ist smart enough to to this and that he shouldnt feel obliged to do so... just do what you love if you have the chance to!
i study archaeology, what isnt exactly something to secure a stable income later on... but hey, i love it and i would totally lose motivation if i was forced to study natural sciences or economy-related degrees just because i may be smart enough to do so..
On October 24 2010 22:16 CharlieMurphy wrote: from the last paragraph it doesn't even sound like he did anything but fiddle with his zipper. its not a crime to be gay or try and hug/hold people.
No, but it is when it's with a 15 years old boy under your authority/power.
On October 26 2010 05:06 trotskyist wrote: yeah, im not suprised, the one member of the werra team that i met was openly gay.
Yes because being gay totally means you're going to molest a 15 year old.
I wouldnt say that but alot of the child molestation in america statistically comes from the gay population
User was warned for this post
Even if that were true (and it isn't), it doesn't mean that every gay you meet is out to molest 15 year olds. Don't be a bigot, dude.
To me, the WeRRa scandal is significant because a person in a position of authority used his influence to touch the zipper of an underage subordinate. Whether he's gay/bisexual/whatever is incidental flavor text.
That comes out to 19.04% of the victims being male. Assuming a marginal amount of female aggressors, that makes about 80% of child molesters straight, and 20% gay. This of course, isn't perfectly accurate, since it is unknown from this statistic how many abusers are repeat offenders.
There is not an accurate estimate of the rate of homosexuality among the population. Most estimates vary from 2% to 13%, according to Wikipedia anyways. This would indicate that a greater percentage of homosexuals are child molesters than heterosexuals. However, I think the argument could easily be made that homosexuals are many times more likely than heterosexuals to live much of their lives in a sexually repressed manner. The primary reason for this being a risk of discrimination if they live openly gay. And if there is anything that is obvious, it's that sexual repression can really screw somebody up.
too bad, I very much enjoyed Cella and Phoenix's Streams, They are Very good!, hwoever i'm sure those two will have no problem finding a new home, it is some of the lesser known player who this will be the Hardest on. I was hoping/expecting phoenix would go farther in the gsl2 as well Too bad... Gl to all the former-werra members
On October 25 2010 11:42 TehOne wrote: I think Gundam deserves some credit. He didn't get aggressive and force the rape on the kid.
Yeah, lets give him credit for being such a stand up member of society that he'll only rape sleeping people, he'll back off if they wake up. What a great guy, why don't we give him the nobel peace prize for his efforts.
Korean journalism can be pretty funny. An article was posted today that pretty much said:
"It is all Blizzard's fault on how Clan WeRRa disbanded."
An e-sports related personnel said, "It was kind of expected. With the way Blizzard is forcing young, innocent kids into competing for the 1st place money, some of them might go down a wrong path."
On October 26 2010 10:41 alexanderzero wrote: That comes out to 19.04% of the victims being male. Assuming a marginal amount of female aggressors, that makes about 80% of child molesters straight, and 20% gay. This of course, isn't perfectly accurate, since it is unknown from this statistic how many abusers are repeat offenders.
You're right about that statistic being inaccurate. Your assumption is that all men who molest male children are homosexuals. This is not the case. There are a number of reasons the abuse happens, and many of the men who do it are not gay. A great number of the children molested are prepubescent as well; would a straight man be attracted to an 8 year old girl? Probably not. Homosexuality is a small (if not entirely insignificant) factor.
For comparison: not all child molestors are pedophiles, either (as in, not sexually attracted to prepubescent children). Most are not. See the parallel?
I have no personal investment in this argument, I just want to see the derailing end.
On October 26 2010 13:36 dybydx wrote: really? disbanded over a sex scandal? in the USA you would get a huge boost in membership because of it.
heck, pride parades here in Canada attract so much following it deeply disturbs me.
I hope that's a joke. And honestly it's insulting either way. Read the post before making cold comments like that. This kid got molested by someone who told him he had a future. I challenge you to recover from that.
I hope this kid has a great future an makes it big for what he has gone through.
On October 26 2010 03:08 Eddie.Aus wrote: Just gently reminding people I'm not backing Gundam up or supporting his actions in any way
Thank you for embarrassing Australia Originalien, you have some growing up to do.
Wow im not the one who has been flamed and essentially told by every single person who has read your post that your views are irrelevant and self obsessed with your own personal issues......
Please go back to doing benzo's and listening to techno and worrying about whether your father will accept your life decisions now because your views and ideals are completely self absorbed " Gay is the new black " ......
When did u have to sit on the back of the bus??? When did u get lynched???
Am i surprised that you are self absorbed and want attention no...... Do you embaress other gay people by adhering to stereotypes. YES.
On October 26 2010 14:11 Originalien wrote: When did u have to sit on the back of the bus??? When did u get lynched???
Like people who have been beaten to death or in some places executed by their government for being gay, or kids driven to suicide by bullies for being gay, or just perceived as being gay, or being banned from serving in the military...
On October 26 2010 14:11 Originalien wrote: When did u have to sit on the back of the bus??? When did u get lynched???
Like people who have been beaten to death or in some places executed by their government for being gay, or kids driven to suicide by bullies for being gay, or just perceived as being gay, or being banned from serving in the military...
which has happened with every religion or kids everyday for being overweight or ugly or not popular. this is so off topic and stupid
I was just responding to someone who was trying to pretend that kind of stuff doesn't happen.
It's not about the guy being gay or whatever, he molested a minor half his age who was under his guardianship. It would have been just as heinous if they were of the opposite sex.
On October 26 2010 14:11 Originalien wrote: When did u have to sit on the back of the bus??? When did u get lynched???
Like people who have been beaten to death or in some places executed by their government for being gay, or kids driven to suicide by bullies for being gay, or just perceived as being gay, or being banned from serving in the military...
I agree, with one stipulation. You can hide being gay in public, you can not hide being black. Maybe that's why it has become culturally acceptable to use "gay" and "fag" as synonyms for "stupid", while the n-word remains a tense subject. That said, no one should have to fake who they are. In a country where we entertain everyone from the Communist Party of America to the Tea Party, why can't we do the same with sexuality?
But it all comes back to this. Homosexuality has nothing to do with this topic, period, end of story. Being gay does not mean you automatically want to have sex with kids. Yes, some pedophiles are gay, some are straight, but their leanings and their desire for children are two separate things. I too think this topic needs to be locked, or at least heavily cleaned.
Guys if you want to discuss the definition of homosexuality, please start another thread, perhaps titled, Is Homosexuality About Liking Boys?, or, Is Gundam A Homo? (i don't like your chances of getting that thread, wonder why)
Seriously - I haven't even seen WeRRa mentioned in the last few pages, and I won't even bother to quote some of the totally off-topic views being expressed here. It's not even about Gundam..
On October 26 2010 10:41 alexanderzero wrote: That comes out to 19.04% of the victims being male. Assuming a marginal amount of female aggressors, that makes about 80% of child molesters straight, and 20% gay. This of course, isn't perfectly accurate, since it is unknown from this statistic how many abusers are repeat offenders.
You're right about that statistic being inaccurate. Your assumption is that all men who molest male children are homosexuals. This is not the case. There are a number of reasons the abuse happens, and many of the men who do it are not gay. A great number of the children molested are prepubescent as well; would a straight man be attracted to an 8 year old girl? Probably not. Homosexuality is a small (if not entirely insignificant) factor.
For comparison: not all child molestors are pedophiles, either (as in, not sexually attracted to prepubescent children). Most are not. See the parallel?
I have no personal investment in this argument, I just want to see the derailing end.
I realize that my argument there is not particularly well constructed. However, as an extreme example it actually does quite well shifting blame away from homosexuality. If more of the men molesting children are not gay, than it further normalizes the rate of homosexuality within child molesters (IE, closer to the same percentage of homosexuals and heterosexuals are child abusers).
If it is as you say, that a significant portion of men who abuse boys are not gay, then any sort of argument that homosexuality can be correlated to child abuse becomes even weaker.
In essence, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I don't think my original argument deserves to be completely discredited though. The original logic still pretty much stands, which is if you assume that ALL the men who abuse boys are homosexuals, that it still wouldn't correlate to a significant increase in the tendency of gays to be child molesters. Therefore, by more realistic approximations, as you noted, there is even less evidence to support such a case.
On October 26 2010 00:59 MightyAtom wrote: So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
So there's no chance the allegations are false? Wow...
Can anyone confirm ex Werra members teaming up as new clan "Project Supreme" ? At least I think they listed August, Sound, Vestige, Astraea, Ares, Naiza, Dos and several others on ProS new teampage.
let all the trolling posts aside (most of which i found funny even a famous progamer's post)
i really hope these trolling posts do not cause more damage to an already bad situation. that would be my concern. i hate to make such a generalized statement on korean society but yeah i hope no one commits suicide out of shame or anything. i hope it just doesn't get worse.
the kid needs to be assured everything is fine...particularly his family and friends. this situation is completely not his fault and shold not be labeled as anythin besides a kid that was trying to be a progamer.
i'm afraid most for gundam....i hate to be liberal but i wonder why in societies its not ok to be gay. chris rock said it best that in a few years we may look back on our discrimination against homosexuals the same way we look back at racial prejudice 30-40 years ago. seems downright silly to me.
but what he did was wrong...and messed up. but if he grew up in a more accepting open society such a situation would have never arisen.
On October 26 2010 00:59 MightyAtom wrote: So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
So there's no chance the allegations are false? Wow...
On October 24 2010 06:37 unbal3 wrote: @ICanFlyLow I feel like that is out of line. The big issue here is NOT gundamwerra's sexuality, whether he is G/B/T/Q/Confused whatever. What is wrong here is the fact that he allegedly molested a minor.
1st time i read the OP, i thought the clan vice-leader made advances to some girl in the team. Then i got it. The fact here is that added to him molesting a minor, even if the boy wasn't under 18 and this thing would have been just an advance/refuse deal, this would at least be unethical. The same reason why a boss shouldn't screw his secretary or other employees. It's called conflict of interest.
On October 26 2010 00:59 MightyAtom wrote: So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
So there's no chance the allegations are false? Wow...
pretty much from a cultural stand point
mind you, japan also has extremely strict slander laws and internet police for the same reason that korea has them, and making false allegations with your true identity is seriously risky.
at the same time, the conviction rate in japan is nearly 100% -- so it's easily abused.
there are middle/high schoolers in japan that expose themselves and then demand money to keep their mouths shut.
i doubt the situation is as bad in korea, but it's probably worth noting that 15 year olds do lie, be they of whatever culture.
from experience i know that they tend to totally throw sexual stories out of proportion. they often just don't think about the consequences, and they feel guilty about it later when it's too late.
i do agree that being that this is korea it's slightly less likely that he's lying, but i wouldn't rule it out entirely just yet. we're extrapolating from a few blog posts, after all.
this is the kind of rumor that drives people in korea and japan to suicide -- especially if it turns out that it happens to be false.
On October 25 2010 22:49 Originalien wrote: Gay people should fucking clue on to the fact that u come onto a straight person in such a manner, OF ANY AGE you are liable to get ur head punched in. Im not saying this is gay bashing, im saying , CONFIRM they are gay before making a move on them
So do you confirm that women are straight before making a move on them?
If not, it's perfectly fine for them to punch your head in?
EXACTLY - YES IT IS FINE for a women to punch me in the head if i try and unbutton her pants without even asking. There is a process to getting to the point of taking of a womens pants, and it generally involves speaking to them 1st, Finding out if they like u 2nd, Kissing Them to see if they like you on that level 3rd, Then INVITING THEM to your house or what ever 4th. See there is quite a few steps to getting into anyones pants.....
YES i do confirm there sexual oriention via CONVERSATION with set women before trying anything with them, its called CHATTING THEM UP
But you weren't saying gay men should ask if they're allowed to put their hands in the other person's pants, you were saying they need to confirm sexual orientation. You said "gays should damn well confirm they are gay before making a move".
This is a case of an adult sexually abusing a minor. Your loud all-caps ranting may seem like a suitable justification to make absurdly homophobic comments, but it's not. Equating gays with pedophiles and rapists is repugnant. Demanding that gays follow special orientation-confirming rules lest they insult straight people is also repugnant.
If you want to say that putting your hands in someone's pants without their consent is bad, then say that without the caveats.
On October 26 2010 00:59 MightyAtom wrote: So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
So there's no chance the allegations are false? Wow...
pretty much from a cultural stand point
mind you, japan also has extremely strict slander laws and internet police for the same reason that korea has them, and making false allegations with your true identity is seriously risky.
at the same time, the conviction rate in japan is nearly 100% -- so it's easily abused.
there are middle/high schoolers in japan that expose themselves and then demand money to keep their mouths shut.
i doubt the situation is as bad in korea, but it's probably worth noting that 15 year olds do lie, be they of whatever culture.
from experience i know that they tend to totally throw sexual stories out of proportion. they often just don't think about the consequences, and they feel guilty about it later when it's too late.
i do agree that being that this is korea it's slightly less likely that he's lying, but i wouldn't rule it out entirely just yet. we're extrapolating from a few blog posts, after all.
this is the kind of rumor that drives people in korea and japan to suicide -- especially if it turns out that it happens to be false.
It has to be true , I dont think WeRRa would dispand due to some unconfirmed rumours.
On October 26 2010 00:59 MightyAtom wrote: So the fact that this kid comes out and says it, the way Korean society works is, this kid has to be telling the truth, you just can't lie or exaggerate something like in Korea society, its so damaging and a no win situation on both sides, you can only say it if 100% its true; and why he says it in public post or whatever, I don't know except that I think he says it because, its not so much the molestation that is an issue (not that it isn't a major issue that starts it all), but it is simply a cry of desperation because he realizes that he just totally fucked up his life by joining this team and dropping out of high school (although I am sure his reaction was in a trauma/panic state); and so, he posts about it because his entire life seems to have no further options.
Now his life does have some options, we all know that, and he will be able to recover if he is mentally strong enough, but if the allegations were false, there would have been massive outrage and bashing from the weRRe clan, not people quiting. In Korea, it is a criminal offense to slander in public with the sentencing being jail, no shit, if you slander and have no grounds, even if you are an anonymous poster, the Korean federal cyber police will track you down, throw you in court and charge your ass. So it is extremely serious and you don't think that some of the people quiting may not have been molested as well and are really quitting because they don't want to have to address this question and just rather give an excuse they don't want to be associated with being gay?
So there's no chance the allegations are false? Wow...
pretty much from a cultural stand point
mind you, japan also has extremely strict slander laws and internet police for the same reason that korea has them, and making false allegations with your true identity is seriously risky.
at the same time, the conviction rate in japan is nearly 100% -- so it's easily abused.
there are middle/high schoolers in japan that expose themselves and then demand money to keep their mouths shut.
i doubt the situation is as bad in korea, but it's probably worth noting that 15 year olds do lie, be they of whatever culture.
from experience i know that they tend to totally throw sexual stories out of proportion. they often just don't think about the consequences, and they feel guilty about it later when it's too late.
i do agree that being that this is korea it's slightly less likely that he's lying, but i wouldn't rule it out entirely just yet. we're extrapolating from a few blog posts, after all.
this is the kind of rumor that drives people in korea and japan to suicide -- especially if it turns out that it happens to be false.
It has to be true , I dont think WeRRa would dispand due to some unconfirmed rumours.
i'm just speculating, but they might have agreed that it's the safest thing to do for the sake of the other members. they're public figures, after all.
i'm willing to bet that if they hadn't disbanded yet, we'd have trolls talking about how every member of werra is a paedophile.
seriously sucks, but it was probably the best move regardless of how much of the allegation is true.
forming or joining another starcraft team is at least marginally easier than shaking prejudism on the internet.
For anyone who was interested in my 'gay is the new black' comment, some people really helped highlight it here.
1. Because we probably will look back in 20-30 years and go, wtf was all the gay prejudice about.
2. Because gay people have suffered all kinds of persecution (including lynching and brutal murder, i.e. Broke Back Mountain to drop that little bomb, doubt you've seen it mate) from haters, the government, the police, the army etc, similar to the old black issue.
3. Because 'black' is a fashionable colour, and suggests that gay is now popular or fashionable i.e. Queer eye and big brother house inmates, positive gay characters in dramas and movies etc...
Please go back to doing benzo's and listening to techno and worrying about whether your father will accept your life decisions now because your views and ideals are completely self absorbed " Gay is the new black " ......
When did u have to sit on the back of the bus??? When did u get lynched???
Am i surprised that you are self absorbed and want attention no...... Do you embaress other gay people by adhering to stereotypes. YES.
What does this get on the temporary ban-o-meter?
I don't know what benzo's are, I'm into DnB and alt rock like Florence and the Machine, just cos gay is the new black doesnt mean im completely self absorbed . And that last bit said in wrong spelling and bad grammar that gays are self absorbed and want attention, and that gay stereotypes are embarrassing. Kids like you are the worst part of high school, self righteous uninformed opinionated nublet.
man i was more shocked when i read that the 32year old manager lived with his mom i mean wtf? has this been confirmed? I am not convinced as far as it has not been confirmed.
On October 26 2010 20:44 Mawi wrote: man i was more shocked when i read that the 32year old manager lived with his mom i mean wtf? has this been confirmed? I am not convinced as far as it has not been confirmed.
I'm under the impression that many people in Korea don't move out but live in the same house from generation to generation.
It used to be like that in Europe too. Firstborn son gets the land/farm, daughters are married off to others.
I really don't get why they disbanded, things like this happen often in various sports / clubs / teams etc. If proven guilty the offenders are dismissed (as well as being dealt with by the law) and the team carries on.
Shocked, I asked him, "what are you doing?" He answered, "Your fly was open, and I was afraid you would think I had opened it. So I was trying to zip it back up. Go back to sleep." So I lied back down for about 10 minutes, then asked him if he was gay.
I find it angering to think that all the hard work that these guys (Cella especially since i <3 his stream) put into their clan is now ruined because of one messed up MF'er.
Sad to hear, I hope they all can find their way back to good teams.
On October 26 2010 20:44 Mawi wrote: man i was more shocked when i read that the 32year old manager lived with his mom i mean wtf? has this been confirmed? I am not convinced as far as it has not been confirmed.
I'm under the impression that many people in Korea don't move out but live in the same house from generation to generation.
It used to be like that in Europe too. Firstborn son gets the land/farm, daughters are married off to others.
Still like that in many parts of India as well, it's not all that uncommon. Other cultures are often very different from your own, people.
People saying that Gundam should die or they would kill him themselves are in my eyes about as bad a human being as he is. Actually worse. I hope that is just emotions running rampant.
This is not a rape which is a hundred times worse. This is a crime though and it is definitely serious.
On October 26 2010 19:34 Eddie.Aus wrote: For anyone who was interested in my 'gay is the new black' comment, some people really helped highlight it here.
1. Because we probably will look back in 20-30 years and go, wtf was all the gay prejudice about.
2. Because gay people have suffered all kinds of persecution (including lynching and brutal murder, i.e. Broke Back Mountain to drop that little bomb, doubt you've seen it mate) from haters, the government, the police, the army etc, similar to the old black issue.
3. Because 'black' is a fashionable colour, and suggests that gay is now popular or fashionable i.e. Queer eye and big brother house inmates, positive gay characters in dramas and movies etc...
Thusly, gay is the new black!
Please do not bring up fiction to emphasize a very real point that requires absolutely no fictional backup. There are plenty of real life examples of gays being brutally killed, like Matthew Shepherd.
And I totally lol'd at number 3.
And I actually thought that in the eastern countries like china, japan, and korea, they were more accepting about homosexuality. So personally I was confused as to why Gundam denied it. I guess I'm just wrong, then.
On October 26 2010 19:34 Eddie.Aus wrote: For anyone who was interested in my 'gay is the new black' comment, some people really helped highlight it here.
1. Because we probably will look back in 20-30 years and go, wtf was all the gay prejudice about.
2. Because gay people have suffered all kinds of persecution (including lynching and brutal murder, i.e. Broke Back Mountain to drop that little bomb, doubt you've seen it mate) from haters, the government, the police, the army etc, similar to the old black issue.
3. Because 'black' is a fashionable colour, and suggests that gay is now popular or fashionable i.e. Queer eye and big brother house inmates, positive gay characters in dramas and movies etc...
Thusly, gay is the new black!
Please do not bring up fiction to emphasize a very real point that requires absolutely no fictional backup. There are plenty of real life examples of gays being brutally killed, like Matthew Shepherd.
And I totally lol'd at number 3.
And I actually thought that in the eastern countries like china, japan, and korea, they were more accepting about homosexuality. So personally I was confused as to why Gundam denied it. I guess I'm just wrong, then.
gays tend to get treated with juvenile amusement in japan, like a freak show. you have gay celebrities on tv exaggerating their gayness and probably misrepresenting the actual gay community.
there were times in the past when a guy would often have a brotherly/gay relationship with a younger guy, and it was regarded as completely normal -- much like in ancient rome. it's definitely not that way now.
meanwhile i've had korean friends make strange claims like that there are no gays in korea because there is no korean word for gay. so there's definitely at least some stigma against gays in korea as well.
is gundam denying the allegations entirely, or is he just denying that he's gay?
He denied it in the translated script of the allegations,
(Off topic) Smart post dump, you captured the Japanese situation well. But really in universities if you are honest about your sexuality here and present yourself respectfully and not too 'differently' you wont be turned away by almost anybody, which I could say is true for most of the industrialised world.
The ancient rome like thing is called Satsuma culture (basically) if anyone wants to look that up.
But what I was suprised to find is that Japanese guys in general are more fashionable, sensitive, have female friends, behave well, are studious and thusly come across as "gayer" than people back home. But in the gay bars there was a much higher proportion of what I would call normal gay men i.e. no makeup, no female clothes, no hand swinging, no outrageous laughing, no madonna, no lady gaga. Even the music in the clubs here in Osaka is freakin great, no more britney techo remixes :D Unless they are awesome, which can happen (said it!), heard a great fat bass remix of toxic, very cool, took all my friends from uni and had a great night.
Broke back mountain was a bad example of gay hate killings, but I didn't know any names of famous incidents at the time, but theres plenty.
I hope that LoveRip can find a suitable SC2 environment and continue to perform at the pro-level in SC2. I feel so terrible for him, the story is appalling sad.
On October 27 2010 10:54 Eddie.Aus wrote: He denied it in the translated script of the allegations,
(Off topic) Smart post dump, you captured the Japanese situation well. But really in universities if you are honest about your sexuality here and present yourself respectfully and not too 'differently' you wont be turned away by almost anybody, which I could say is true for most of the industrialised world.
The ancient rome like thing is called Satsuma culture (basically) if anyone wants to look that up.
But what I was suprised to find is that Japanese guys in general are more fashionable, sensitive, have female friends, behave well, are studious and thusly come across as "gayer" than people back home. But in the gay bars there was a much higher proportion of what I would call normal gay men i.e. no makeup, no female clothes, no hand swinging, no outrageous laughing, no madonna, no lady gaga. Even the music in the clubs here in Osaka is freakin great, no more britney techo remixes :D Unless they are awesome, which can happen (said it!), heard a great fat bass remix of toxic, very cool, took all my friends from uni and had a great night.
Broke back mountain was a bad example of gay hate killings, but I didn't know any names of famous incidents at the time, but theres plenty.
yeah, i have a friend who's gay and he fits in just fine. you can tell he's gay from the way he speaks, but there's nothing particularly annoying about him or his boyfriend. i think the whole excessive flamboyance thing is half stereotype and half knee-jerk reaction.
as for japanese guys, i tried the whole japanese metro look for a while (half-assedly) -- but being 5'2" and living in a city of mostly tall koreans and caucasians, it only ever attracted really weird chicks...
either way, i doubt gundam's gay. even if it did turn out that he did everything loverip claims he did -- which i'm beginning to doubt -- it would likely have been for the sake of humiliation rather than sexual exploitation, a.k.a. bullying.
karma for being such a tool. go find a clan yourself, otherwise you'll continue to lose horribly like today. "yeah I'm confident I can make it to the finals, I'll probably have a tough time with Fruitdealer there" good job making yourself look like a total fool.
Im so sorry that this had to happen. The feeling I get when I read that poor kids post is gutwrenching. I hope for the best for him, and all the WeRRa members who werent involved.
I really really feel sad after reading this news. WeRRa was one of the best teams and *poof* just like that it ended in a second. Its an sad day for whole gaming community. Its too bad for that Kid and WeRRa players who were innocent specially cellaWeRRa who wrote the reply with 'teary eyes'.
Looks like Cella found a home after all-- just thought it was nice that such a grim time in Cella's life ("wandering without a home, no idea what to do") has ended with him as Coaching Champion of GSTL and now head coach of the Korean GSL World Champs!
Congratulations to Cella! Nice to see some stories do have happy endings.
Sorry if this offends someone, but i think that a lot of the players are bi or gay - they just look like it, and when you live in a house with only other boys - it's like in the army or in jail, funny things happen I don't think that being a gay is something new in Korean pro-gaming teams ( correct me if i'm wrong and you have different inside info ), in many team houses girls are not allowed and this boys are in very funny age - right when one explores his/her sexuality - so .... + Just watch carefully when they interact between them and you'll see what i'm talking about.
On May 18 2011 08:48 setekh wrote: Sorry if this offends someone, but i think that a lot of the players are bi or gay - they just look like it, and when you live in a house with only other boys - it's like in the army or in jail, funny things happen I don't think that being a gay is something new in Korean pro-gaming teams ( correct me if i'm wrong and you have different inside info ), in many team houses girls are not allowed and this boys are in very funny age - right when one explores his/her sexuality - so .... + Just watch carefully when they interact between them and you'll see what i'm talking about.
That is actually really wrong. In korea you have interactions between men who are straight that would be called gay from some western perspective, but are normal there. Of course there may be some homosexuals there, I don't know, but you do not see that from their behavior in front of camera. An example could be the Jaedong - Lomo story, You would probably think their gay.
Additionally this topic is not about being gay or not, but about authority abuse and sexual harassment.