[Books] Dune - Page 3
Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
| ||
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On February 18 2019 01:38 Saechiis wrote: I wanted to say I read the Machine Crusade by Frank Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson and I got sucked right into it. People often give the advice to only read Frank Herberts Dune but that's a bit like BW fans telling you not to play SC2. While i see where you are coming from i disagree with this statement still, in some cases the gap in quality between two products is simply big enough to notice it regardless of preferences. BW vs Sc2 is an argument about two of the best rts games ever, frank herbert's dune vs brian herbert's dune is the argument of a genius vs a decent, mediocre author. In a vacuum there is nothing wrong with liking brian's books, nothing at all, but they just lack the depth of frank's. Anyway, as i said before i don't think bashing on brian is a productive thing for this thread, mostly excited about the new movie at this point and hoping for it to be successful and villeneuve's best work to date. | ||
MattyClutch
United States711 Posts
| ||
Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
| ||
Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
He's playing Piter de Vries. I don't remember this character having the name de Vries, that's a Dutch name. | ||
General_Winter
United States719 Posts
| ||
Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
I am also curious about this new movie, however I enjoyed the original too. I also really liked all books, the whole saga (both F. Herbert's originals, and the ones written by his son and K. J. Anderson). Then again, I am both easily entertained, and a completionist: whenever I immerse myself in a universe, I would want to know the whole canon saga, to build it in my head, think about how it would work and debate with myself the possible inconsistencies, what would make most sense . I really like that kind of mental gymnastics. | ||
Amphimachus
4 Posts
You don't remember Piter? How can you not? One of the most fun characters. | ||
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Great cast, great people working on it but i really don't like Hans Zimmer doing the score. That might be a surprise to some people, but man his scores are always so similar and never feel actually iconic, at least not to me. Oh well, we'll see what it will sound like, not the biggest fan though. | ||
DeepElemBlues
United States5075 Posts
Dune was a fun read Dune Messiah... not as good as Dune About 1/4 of the way through Children of Dune... not as good as Dune so far, better than Dune Messiah Really looking forward to God Emperor of Dune Herbert throws a lot of names (of organizations and skills and such) and pseudophilosophy at you that drags down the pacing sometimes and make things a bit of a slog but his characters are vivid and distinct so far The whole "protagonists (and many of the antagonists as well) are literally superhumans who know everything and can do everything so exposition and dialogue are usually people saying vague things in an arrogant tone like it's all supposed to be clear as day and tension doesn't really exist" kind of annoys me, it annoyed me in the sequels to Ender's Game as well when Ender would be a real asshole to almost everybody and sooner or later they'd break down and cry and acknowledge Ender's superior intellect and morality that just rekt everything they ever believed in. That's the vibe I get from so many characters in the Dune series... the Bene Gesserit, Bene Tleilaxu, Jessica, Paul, Alia, Duncan Idaho ghola, Scytale, Bijaz etc... any character that actually moves the plot along is portrayed as an ubermensch in his or her interactions with the secondary characters and that gets kinda boring. The only real conflict (drama) is the internal conflict (drama) of these ubermensch characters being uncomfortable with being ubermenschen The Spacer's Guild being simultaneously powerful yet apparently run by idiotic fish-men made me chuckle tho Overall what I've read so far (first 2 books, 1/4 of 3rd book) I'd give a cumulative 7.5/10 Dune 8.5/10 Dune Messiah 7/10 First 1/4 of Children of Dune 7.5/10 | ||
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 19 2019 03:03 DeepElemBlues wrote: Reading through the series for the first time Dune was a fun read Dune Messiah... not as good as Dune About 1/4 of the way through Children of Dune... not as good as Dune so far, better than Dune Messiah Really looking forward to God Emperor of Dune Herbert throws a lot of names (of organizations and skills and such) and pseudophilosophy at you that drags down the pacing sometimes and make things a bit of a slog but his characters are vivid and distinct so far The whole "protagonists (and many of the antagonists as well) are literally superhumans who know everything and can do everything so exposition and dialogue are usually people saying vague things in an arrogant tone like it's all supposed to be clear as day and tension doesn't really exist" kind of annoys me, it annoyed me in the sequels to Ender's Game as well when Ender would be a real asshole to almost everybody and sooner or later they'd break down and cry and acknowledge Ender's superior intellect and morality that just rekt everything they ever believed in. That's the vibe I get from so many characters in the Dune series... the Bene Gesserit, Bene Tleilaxu, Jessica, Paul, Alia, Duncan Idaho ghola, Scytale, Bijaz etc... any character that actually moves the plot along is portrayed as an ubermensch in his or her interactions with the secondary characters and that gets kinda boring. The only real conflict (drama) is the internal conflict (drama) of these ubermensch characters being uncomfortable with being ubermenschen The Spacer's Guild being simultaneously powerful yet apparently run by idiotic fish-men made me chuckle tho Overall what I've read so far (first 2 books, 1/4 of 3rd book) I'd give a cumulative 7.5/10 Dune 8.5/10 Dune Messiah 7/10 First 1/4 of Children of Dune 7.5/10 It is interesting that you mention the characters being vivid and distinct and then go on and say that there is nothing else than them being uncomfortable with being an ubermensch. For starters i would say that the character work is the weakest part of dune, they are superior human beings which is also kinda the point, herbert wants to paint a picture where humans had to evolve themselves and not just use better and better tools. I still think there is some drama because these future humans are in conflict with each other, so it is an even playing field again. Where Dune imo shines is the thematic depth, you call it pseudo philosophy but imo that doesn't do it justice, herbert was no philosopher so it's not a work of philosophy, but he researched a lot of different branches and included them into his world, i never felt it slogged because of it (beware though, book 4 is the worst offender in that case ) For me personally it is book 1>4>3=5=6>2 , the first book is just the most well rounded work in the series and absolutely deserves the status of a classic it has in the scifi realm. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
https://www.imaginaryworldspodcast.org/the-book-of-dune.html | ||
DeepElemBlues
United States5075 Posts
On March 20 2019 00:55 The_Red_Viper wrote: It is interesting that you mention the characters being vivid and distinct and then go on and say that there is nothing else than them being uncomfortable with being an ubermensch. For starters i would say that the character work is the weakest part of dune, they are superior human beings which is also kinda the point, herbert wants to paint a picture where humans had to evolve themselves and not just use better and better tools. I still think there is some drama because these future humans are in conflict with each other, so it is an even playing field again. Where Dune imo shines is the thematic depth, you call it pseudo philosophy but imo that doesn't do it justice, herbert was no philosopher so it's not a work of philosophy, but he researched a lot of different branches and included them into his world, i never felt it slogged because of it (beware though, book 4 is the worst offender in that case ) For me personally it is book 1>4>3=5=6>2 , the first book is just the most well rounded work in the series and absolutely deserves the status of a classic it has in the scifi realm. the characters themselves are vivid and distinct but the drama they have to deal with is not i don't think dune's thematic depth comes from the dialogue, i think it comes from the setting. herbert's description of arrakis and the fremen and the atreides and the harkonnens etc in dune provides lots of thematic depth then the characters start talking and this clear picture is wrapped up in vaguely worded arguments that read more like i'm so clever contests than serious drama. not so much in dune but got done with children of dune last night and now starting god emperor of dune and if i never read another conversation again where the protagonist is shaken to his or her core because of some vague incoherent word games an antagonist or other protagonist played in their conversation i'll be pleased | ||
Manit0u
Poland17041 Posts
| ||
| ||