i was seriously rooting for him to be drafted by the raptors seeing as how he was at our training camp but oh well
i really want him to do well too.
im not sure if hes nba all star material but he is a professional. i have no doubt in my mind he can make a very very nice living off basketball if it has to be overseas (europe or asia). the nba; i hope he does well =]
Reggie Williams and Dorell Wright will eat up all the minutes if Ellis gets hurt. Lin might be able to outbattle Charlie Bell for the minutes behind Curry though.
his performance would depend on how much minute's he'll get as a third stringer. Also he's playing for Keith Smart, a newbie coach who inherited the reins from Don Nelson (he's probably the worst and most overrated coach in the league). If Lin is playing in a nelson-like run and gun system, it's possible that he'll hit those numbers, but generally I subtract a good 5 points from everyone's average because nelson's gimicky run and gun makes 2nd or 3rd stringers look like all stars (IE basically every player the warriors called up from the d-league in the past few years).
On October 26 2010 03:59 ZlaSHeR wrote: He'll get time on the warriors, maybe only 7-9 minutes a game til he proves himself but he is the backup PG for my warriors.
yea, im expecting good things. even if he doesn't get many minutes in close games, he'll still learn a ton practicing with Curry and Ellis.
Yeah, he has the smarts to make the NBA minimum salary last a long while. Unlike his idiot peers, around 60% of whom will be bankrupt or under severe financial pressure within 5 years of retirement.
On October 26 2010 06:01 jtbem wrote: 3ppg max ~5 mins playing time max had high hopes for him coming into the nba. i know preseason isn't much but hes was brutal
Did you actually watch him play? Or are you just basing his future on his stats? Cause undrafted rookies don't normally get very much playing time.
On October 26 2010 05:59 andrewlt wrote: Yeah, he has the smarts to make the NBA minimum salary last a long while. Unlike his idiot peers, around 60% of whom will be bankrupt or under severe financial pressure within 5 years of retirement.
Yup. Econ major from Harvard. I'm sure he knows all about managing his money =D
My pessimistic side can't see Jeremy Lin succeeding for the following reasons: 1) Not quick enough to defend NBA guards. 2) Can't generate a shot off his own dribble against those taller than him. 3) Will be dominated inside.
My optimistic side says he can make it! 1) Warriors let everyone shoot the ball in all clock situations. 2) Opposing teams will leave Jeremy Lin open. 3) How can Jeremy Lin be slower and weaker than other guards who have found niches in the league? Crummy players like Steve Blake, Bruce Bowen, Steve Novak, etc. all found specialist roles on decent NBA teams. We gotta think Jeremy Lin is smart or very smart, and will adapt his skillset to something he can be very good at.
On October 26 2010 06:25 Gummy wrote: And he's definitely not the first asian-american in the NBA.
Asian =/= Asian American. There have been Asians, but Jeremy is the first American citizen of Asian descent.
I went to UPenn and am the same year as this guy (class of 2010), so this guy was an eternal pain. Granted Penn basketball sucked hardcore the last three years while Harvard was good (I wonder why), but he's probably better than even Ibby Jaaber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Jaaber) who graduated after Jeremy's freshman year and led some European league in scoring.
On October 26 2010 06:25 Gummy wrote: And he's definitely not the first asian-american in the NBA.
Asian =/= Asian American. There have been Asians, but Jeremy is the first American citizen of Asian descent.
I went to UPenn and am the same year as this guy (class of 2010), so this guy was an eternal pain. Granted Penn basketball sucked hardcore the last three years while Harvard was good (I wonder why), but he's probably better than even Ibby Jaaber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Jaaber) who graduated after Jeremy's freshman year and led some European league in scoring.
I hope he does well though.
I htink he was beat out on that title by 60 something years...
On October 26 2010 06:25 Gummy wrote: And he's definitely not the first asian-american in the NBA.
Asian =/= Asian American. There have been Asians, but Jeremy is the first American citizen of Asian descent.
I went to UPenn and am the same year as this guy (class of 2010), so this guy was an eternal pain. Granted Penn basketball sucked hardcore the last three years while Harvard was good (I wonder why), but he's probably better than even Ibby Jaaber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Jaaber) who graduated after Jeremy's freshman year and led some European league in scoring.
I hope he does well though.
First Asian American to play in the NBA was Wat Misaka, who played in 1947.
On October 26 2010 06:32 Random_0 wrote: My pessimistic side can't see Jeremy Lin succeeding for the following reasons: 1) Not quick enough to defend NBA guards. 2) Can't generate a shot off his own dribble against those taller than him. 3) Will be dominated inside.
My optimistic side says he can make it! 1) Warriors let everyone shoot the ball in all clock situations. 2) Opposing teams will leave Jeremy Lin open. 3) How can Jeremy Lin be slower and weaker than other guards who have found niches in the league? Crummy players like Steve Blake, Bruce Bowen, Steve Novak, etc. all found specialist roles on decent NBA teams. We gotta think Jeremy Lin is smart or very smart, and will adapt his skillset to something he can be very good at.
I personally think he is underrated athletically.
check out all the spinmoves and dunks he made in the summer league. He also grabbed the ball out of John Wall's hands in midair. How can a unathletic person possibly do that?
I think a lot of what you guys are saying, is what a lot of critics have said about him. However, time and time again, he proves them wrong. Listen, he averaged like 25 ppg in high school, but wasn't recruited heavily, and went to harvard. A lot of people said he couldn't succeed in college, as the players were too fast and strong, he proves them wrong by putting up gaudy stats, and beating major teams like bc and maryland. Now, in the nba, i suspect the same. Did you see what he did against john wall? He played great. And he's not a small point guard, he is about 6'2-6'3, which is actually a little taller than the average pg.
In the end, i hope he doesn't have to deal with the racism he had to deal with those dumbass fuck college basketball fans. Seriously, it was ridiculous what he had to go through. If i were him, i certainly would have gone out to the stands and started beatin the shit out of everyone. At least nba has some good asian players, and a lot more foreign players in general
On October 26 2010 12:24 Tazza wrote: I think a lot of what you guys are saying, is what a lot of critics have said about him. However, time and time again, he proves them wrong. Listen, he averaged like 25 ppg in high school, but wasn't recruited heavily, and went to harvard. A lot of people said he couldn't succeed in college, as the players were too fast and strong, he proves them wrong by putting up gaudy stats, and beating major teams like bc and maryland. Now, in the nba, i suspect the same. Did you see what he did against john wall? He played great. And he's not a small point guard, he is about 6'2-6'3, which is actually a little taller than the average pg.
In the end, i hope he doesn't have to deal with the racism he had to deal with those dumbass fuck college basketball fans. Seriously, it was ridiculous what he had to go through. If i were him, i certainly would have gone out to the stands and started beatin the shit out of everyone. At least nba has some good asian players, and a lot more foreign players in general
I also saw him choke against Ivy League competition. Say what you want, I admire his work ethic, but the NBA isn't college; there's a reason why people fail from college to it. He's not that quick and will have issues fighting through screens. Not hating on him, just the truth. John Wall gets loose with the ball, he averaged like 8 TOs per game in college, that's against mediocre SEC competition too, so I wouldn't read too much into it.
The other college game people love highlighting is his performance against Uconn; if you watched Uconn since 2000, then you know that they can't guard a shooting guard worth their life, it doesn't matter who it is.
He got some minutes with Steph Curry out and GS down big.
1-5 shooting, 4 steals, 3 assists, 5 fouls, 0 TOs in 11 minutes against the Lakers
He was going up against the mummified corpse of Derek Fisher and looked alright and also did a decent job of running the offense and reading passing lanes on d.
5 fouls in 11 minutes is terrible but I guess not unexpected everything considered. I would not want him guarding any athletic PGs or SGs but hey, GS doesn't do the "playing defense" thing anyway.
Not turning the ball over and running the offense decently is probably enough to stick for a couple of seasons somewhere, but if he wants more he's gotta work on his shot. Kid threw up an airball today, it's unknown if he can make an NBA 3.
On October 26 2010 06:39 TieN.nS) wrote: Hi, Wat Misaka.
Technically that wasn't the NBA.
He will find a place to fit in somewhere. I know hes got the smarts to realize he isnt the next kobe bryant and recognise the holes in his game. I know hes got the work ethic to work on them. If you have a good ball IQ and a good work ethic you can find a place on a team. You might not be an allstar, but you can make decent money playing a game.
On November 01 2010 15:00 shawster wrote: 4 steals 0 tos is impressive
5 fouls 1-5 shooting eh, fouls vary. he defintaely does have to work on his shooting though, and i'm rooting for him.
Meh, he got 5 fouls because he was going for those steals. Neither stats say much aside from him being really aggressive with double teaming because they were down so big.
I think there is sufficient reason to necro this thread, instead of making a new one.
UPDATE
Jeremy Lin has been making headlines in major news recently, with his breakout-in-fame since his 1st 3 games with 20+ points in all of them. All the major news sites are talking about him as a national phenomenon, and he seems to have achieved stardom.
It's really sad he's been tossed around in teams and put on bench because the coaches didn't want to give him playing time. Now that Knicks had no choice BUT to use him, he's burst out of his corner and shown the NBA world what he can do.
I'm really hoping to see what he'll be able to do against the stronger teams, but for now, he's been dominating the entire scene and we can see that the 3 games were no pure luck.
Stories like this guy are why I love sports, he is just so fun to watch and such a good story. Hope he keeps it up even after that bum Carmelo and good ol' Amare get back!
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
It's crazy, as if it came straight out of the plot of DBZ.
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
It's crazy, as if it came straight out of the plot of DBZ.
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
It's crazy, as if it came straight out of the plot of DBZ.
Hard work, the right system, and some good luck never hurts.
How did Kurt Warner go from bagging groceries, to Arena football, to NFL Europe, to going to three Superbowls and winning one of them?
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
It's crazy, as if it came straight out of the plot of DBZ.
Did he actually appear from nowhere? I don't really follow basketball, but my friends showed me a highlight video against... can't remember, but it was a recent game. Went back to look for some addional videos and couldn't find any. So he went poof, and now is damn good?
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
It's crazy, as if it came straight out of the plot of DBZ.
Did he actually appear from nowhere? I don't really follow basketball, but my friends showed me a highlight video against... can't remember, but it was a recent game. Went back to look for some addional videos and couldn't find any. So he went poof, and now is damn good?
He went undrafted in 2010, played reserve for a year, then the warriors released him to free up their salary cap, then he got signed to the knicks, then went to the D-league for one game, then 3 days later got re-signed back to the knicks and ended up playing off the bench against the wizards which was 4 games ago.
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
On February 11 2012 13:11 Itsmedudeman wrote: I honestly cannot fathom how you can go from being 3rd string and D-league to all-star material just instantly out of no where.
It's crazy, as if it came straight out of the plot of DBZ.
Did he actually appear from nowhere? I don't really follow basketball, but my friends showed me a highlight video against... can't remember, but it was a recent game. Went back to look for some addional videos and couldn't find any. So he went poof, and now is damn good?
He went undrafted in 2010, played reserve for a year, then the warriors released him to free up their salary cap, then he got signed to the knicks, then went to the D-league for one game, then 3 days later got re-signed back to the knicks and ended up playing off the bench against the wizards which was 4 games ago.
Wow. Actually out of nowhere. Not hyperbole (refering to his magical appearance out of nowhere. Wow. XD
When I first heard there was an Asian American coming into the nba, i shrugged it off and thought he was just gonna be a scrub anywayz. None the less my curiosity got the best of me and I wikied him. Apparently he was one of the best high school players if not the best high school player in California yet he still didnt get a single athletic scholarship or was even gurenteed a spot on any basketball team outside of harvard and brown. Are you joking me? how could that even happen, Jeremy actually had to send tapes himself to try to get into a good basketball program.
None the less, that just adds to the hype that is so called "linsanity". The fact that he is asian american and went to harvard and actually graduated makes him that much more unique. Also his underdog status is just the icing on cake.
Im not gonna lie, when I read the wiki page, i thought he was gonna fail hard in nba even though I respected that he was one of the best in the academic world and one of the best in the athletic world. But hes competing against guys that live and breath basketball. Nba players probably did not spend time studying like Jeremy Lin did, they played basketball all day. They did not have to juggle school and sports. Nba players go to college for 1 year to simply wait to be eligible to get drafted.
Lin is changing the game though. I consider myself a pretty big basketball fan. And watching him play. He is really good and its not just fluke. There are weaknesses to his game for sure. He doesnt seem that good going to his left or finishing on his left, even though hes been shooting well because he only shoots open shots he doesnt appear to be a great shooter (probably below avg for a PG but not as bad as rajon rondo) and I also think he will struggle against teams with mobile bigs. But who doesnt have weaknesses? Tyson chandler is helping lin out a ton though with his great screens which lin uses a lot.
A lot of his strengths are unteachable too unlike his weaknesses. Hes got off the charts basketball IQ, good court vision, good passing, unselfish yet aggressive at same time, great body control, john wall like speed with chris paulesqe speed control. SUPER GOOD at pick and rolls and pretty crafty player. And to wrap it all up? Hes pretty good at defense too and you can tell hes always active and trying hard. He seems to be good off the ball too, not rip hamilton good but is willing to run to good spots.
I really dont know how stoudamire and melo will change his game when he comes back. Knicks are playing better ball without them. I always felt the knicks suck and I always felt stoudamire is way too overrated. Melo is good but hes nothing but a pure scorer.
Stoudamire will give lin the chance to prove if hes good at pick and pops but stoudamire doesnt set good screens. Melo is a ball hog and kills ball movement which is what lin provides a lot of. I also wonder what knicks are gonna do with baron davis now. Its been 4 games now where lin has not just dominated the stat sheet but actually dominated the game. For those people who just look at box scores and think they are empty stats, believe me, those stats actually represent how good he has been in those games.
I knew he was pretty good when he was getting 20+ points over the last few games, but tonight was insane. It was like a Bisu-Savior moment, when out of nowhere a young rising star just goes and upsets a champion. 38 points against the Lakers in Madison Square Garden? That is incredibly impressive.
There was something different about the way he plays: It seems like he is constantly thinking, strategizing and finding weaknesses rather than merely out-shoot and out-play his opponent. His passing is quite impressive, and he is very good at finding holes in the defense. He is not the most athletic, nor the largest player out there, but he seems like the smartest one on the court, and that makes the difference.
I have to admit, as a Chinese guy I never thought I'd see the day an Asian who wasn't as tall as the Eiffel Tower succeed in the NBA. Of course at 6'3" Jeremy Lin ain't no shorty, but you know what I mean.
Been a fan of him since the end of his Harvard days. I remember an article before anyone else saying Jeremy Lin would be an allstar point guard. I laughed it off even as a fan... Did not expect this. I was getting frustrated at NY for not giving Lin a chance, even though he was CLEARLY better than Bibby. NY pretty much hit the jackpot.
he is absolutely playing out of his freaking mind right now.
I wonder if he can sustain it? He's clearly got a lot of potential to be a fantastic player, especially after putting up these numbers 3 games in a row
Wow, Lin is playing out of this world, too bad my Lakers had to fall victim . Nah but I'm really impressed and extremely happy for him. He's really good at keeping the dribble, but needs to work on his shooting and more importantly his turnovers :/. Oh and if I were the Knicks, I wouldn't even want Carmelo and Stoudemire to come back, hahahah.
Don't question a legend! What an incredible story, good for Lin taking full advantage of an opportunity, if he didn't play well against the nets he would of been cut.
However i think he's probably going to be unable to continue that streak. He has some major glaring weakness like he's hugely dominant right handed...which means most probably he will try attack from one side of the court...he has a embarassingly high turnover rates which exploited means a LOT of points given away.
He's still amazing though! incredibly fast 1st step, extremely good balance and very nice penetration ability.
he's so damn good and so damn humble. now if he wasn't so damn religious i would freaking idolize him. he's probably the reason i'm going to start watching the nba too (never really cared for basketball..)
Although he didn't shoot well tonight despite a solid first half, still led the Knicks to victory. Even though I am a Nuggets fan, I have been watching every Jeremy Lin game (illegally unfortunately). Good work against Rubio.
It's actually kinda funny is seeing all the early posts on this topic and how they were doubting :-p. Personally, I still believe what makes him a great player is that he can think well. Good strategy and on the go thinking can make a huge difference, especially in a team game.
I was at the game tonight. Pretty awesome, even though Lin's second half was pretty dreadful. Had my sign; "Welcome to Linnesota" confiscated, because apparently very large signs aren't allowed. But Lin balled hard in the first half, and sank the clutch free throw in the second, so all was well. So good.
Love the high socks too. High socks make you look so much faster.
On February 12 2012 16:59 tree.hugger wrote: I was at the game tonight. Pretty awesome, even though Lin's second half was pretty dreadful. Had my sign; "Welcome to Linnesota" confiscated, because apparently very large signs aren't allowed. But Lin balled hard in the first half, and sank the clutch free throw in the second, so all was well. So good.
Love the high socks too. High socks make you look so much faster.
ooo lucky! what do u think his weakness is? also, no one can be hot all the time so im not too worried. he shows that he is a great asset to the team with scoring and spreading the ball.
On October 26 2010 06:32 Random_0 wrote: My pessimistic side can't see Jeremy Lin succeeding for the following reasons: 1) Not quick enough to defend NBA guards. 2) Can't generate a shot off his own dribble against those taller than him. 3) Will be dominated inside.
Funny reading that now. He made his living by blowing by Wall and Dwill off the dribble and scoring inside. Like every single reason he got doubted for :D
On February 12 2012 16:59 tree.hugger wrote: I was at the game tonight. Pretty awesome, even though Lin's second half was pretty dreadful. Had my sign; "Welcome to Linnesota" confiscated, because apparently very large signs aren't allowed. But Lin balled hard in the first half, and sank the clutch free throw in the second, so all was well. So good.
Love the high socks too. High socks make you look so much faster.
ooo lucky! what do u think his weakness is? also, no one can be hot all the time so im not too worried. he shows that he is a great asset to the team with scoring and spreading the ball.
An obvious weakness is stamina, but it's not something you can really ding him for. Back-to-back games on the road and 7 games in 10 days will put a damper on anybody's energy levels.
What I was really surprised to see, however, was that even though he was totally exhausted the second half against the wolves, and didn't have the shooting he did in the first half, he still made plays and still coordinated the offense admirably. Knicks didn't have the luxury of swapping him out (with Stoudemire and Melo out), and even still he managed to keep the offensive machine running.
I'm a little concerned that when the Knicks' stars get back on the floor, the hugely disparate playstyles of Anthony and the Suns-like offense (from D'Antoni) run through Lin will clash. Having Lin on point running pick and rolls through Chandler or Stoudemire is pretty mutually exclusive from Anthony manning it up for some isolation shots. Then again, the variety of possible strategies the Knicks can run can only work to their advantage. At the very least, the readdition of the two stars will make it so the Knicks aren't a 7-man team anymore and can actually retire exhausted players. At best, we might see a team that can run two very different and effective styles of offense.
I don't know if it is just me but this linsanity of NBA reminds me of tebow-mania of NFL. I don't watch basketball, but apparantly Lin is better at Basketball than Tebow is at football?
Lin is good at the Pick and Roll, which works well with bigs as fast as Amare and Chandler, the Warriors have nothing that can complement that but maybe David Lee thats why he didn't have success at GSW. Also the pick and roll isn't part of the warriors offense at all lol. And from everything I heard Lin is not very good at dribbling left so eventually teams will have to catch on unless they want to get 25/4/7/2 dropped on them every night.
As much as people don't like focusing on one guy like this, it is an inspirational story among the Asian and Asian-american community, which is very VERY passionate about basketball.
I'm asian, I love rooting for Lin, I like his game and those last games have just been electric. But...
That asian-american movement angle that the reporters are trying to establish is just ridiculous. Americans just love to create superhuman heros right? He is just a basketball player and now everyone comes out sayin he is the savior of a whole ethnicity. He's a good player who gives asians someone to root for but he is not heralding the change of asian culture and saving them from the opression. Cmon, seriously...??
On February 12 2012 23:32 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I'm asian, I love rooting for Lin, I like his game and those last games have just been electric. But...
That asian-american movement angle that the reporters are trying to establish is just ridiculous. Americans just love to create superhuman heros right? He is just a basketball player and now everyone comes out sayin he is the savior of a whole ethnicity. He's a good player who gives asians someone to root for but he is not heralding the change of asian culture and saving them from the opression. Cmon, seriously...??
Asian American males don't have many good role models in American society. There are horrendous stereotypes perpetrated in America about AAM. Jeremy Lin, Yao Ming, Jet Li etc, are the rare few that help turn the tide and AAM love them for that. Surprisingly, the media's actually reporting correctly for once when it comes to what JLin means for the AA community.
As an AAM I don't think the angle the reporters are trying to establish is ridiculous at all. And there are a multitude of precedents in American sports and race relations history that show a single individual can bring about great change in the way society views issues. If you still don't understand how this concept works study the impact of Jackie Robinson on MLB.
How is that even comparable at all. Jackie Robinson didn't just make it as an underdog. He entered the MLB when black people didnt have the same rights as white people. He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal. Don't tell me you are comparing those two and people better dont start writing articles comparing those two...
Lin is a baller and he is succesful right now. Asian kids can look up to him as any kid can look up to pro athletes. He was an underdog and thru hard work he got to where he is right now. That's as good a cinderella story as it gets and people like that. But he is not changing the asian culture and he is not changing the american system by playing well. And if he does then the self-respect of asians over there must be really fragile...
They're not portraying him as a guy who's saving a race or a culture at all, its just showing that there is a truly inspirational story. This is a guy who broke records at his local high school which is, quite literally, 20 feet across the street from Stanford. His dream schools were Pac10 teams like UCLA, which the coach later admitted that Lin was good enough to start for UCLA, but he was only offered walk on positions. Now you tell me a guy who is all around the strongest player in the area, winning player of the year awards for his local conference and upsetting sports powerhouse Mater Dei from socal to win the state championship his senior year, gets zero scholarship offers from Pac10 teams? Race has to be one of those reasons.
Then you look at the fact that he was tearing it up at Harvard, when Harvard faced Santa Clara University (which is like 20 minutes away from his hometown Palo Alto) the whole crowd was cheering for Lin and Harvard and not SCU.
Nobody at the GSW's are holding accountability for being the ones to decide to release Lin after the rookie year. The new head coach even says that he never really looked at Lin and didn't look at the guard position closely (Why?). Nobody wants to admit that they were the ones who didnt' see the potential in this guy, in the largest Asian-American and Taiwanese-American market in the US. You want to believe that nobody in even the GSW's front office got rid of him at least PARTIALLY because he's Asian and they didn't see him as athletic enough, as strong enough, as fast as any other guard in the NBA then you're out of your mind.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation.
He isn't saving Asian Americans from oppression but keep in mind that Asian-Americans have no place in pop culture or traditional media except as laughing stocks and punchlines. You see that there are almost no Asian Americans signed to major record labels or deals, or in positions in hollywood or television. People ask why a lot of the most subscribed channels on Youtube are Asians well thats because that is the medium for Asians to get any sort of spotlight. I once saw some video I think by Timothydelaghetto answering why all these asians are on youtube, singers, rappers, whatever and why they always hang out together and go to these performances and shows together and he answered with that. That this is the Asian-American medium and embrace it because traditional media doesn't allow for Asians to be a part of it.
Something as simple as a kid who's been looked over his whole life, averaging 25 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg in these past 5 games now. Believe it or not, but that IS a step in the direction of heralding a change in culture.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal.
If you think that there is no segregation or equal rights of Asian Americans in traditional media then you're an idiot.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: See that's what I mean.
How is that even comparable at all. Jackie Robinson didn't just make it as an underdog. He entered the MLB when black people didnt have the same rights as white people. He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal. Don't tell me you are comparing those two and people better dont start writing articles comparing those two...
Lin is a baller and he is succesful right now. Asian kids can look up to him as any kid can look up to pro athletes. He was an underdog and thru hard work he got to where he is right now. That's as good a cinderella story as it gets and people like that. But he is not changing the asian culture and he is not changing the american system by playing well. And if he does then the self-respect of asians over there must be really fragile...
Instead of wasting time on TL, you should work on reading comprehension.
On February 12 2012 22:57 don_kyuhote wrote: I don't know if it is just me but this linsanity of NBA reminds me of tebow-mania of NFL. I don't watch basketball, but apparantly Lin is better at Basketball than Tebow is at football?
They are totally opposite when it comes to there skills in there respective sport. Lin is a true point guard, while Tebow is a very unorthodox QB. This leads to a lot more doubts about his ability to perform at a NFL level.
I think the difference is Lin is a kid with all the skills overlooked due to his race, and is now performing exceptionally well against some of the best guards in the NBA (Wall, Kobe). Tebow is a kid who's skillset is so unconventional that a team has to cater the offense just to make it work for him. Like you said Dizmaul, Tebow is looked down upon due to his skillset, Lin is looked down upon for reasons OTHER than his skillset.
Similarities? They both win games, and they're both very religious lol.
On February 13 2012 00:24 Zlasher wrote: They're not portraying him as a guy who's saving a race or a culture at all, its just showing that there is a truly inspirational story. This is a guy who broke records at his local high school which is, quite literally, 20 feet across the street from Stanford. His dream schools were Pac10 teams like UCLA, which the coach later admitted that Lin was good enough to start for UCLA, but he was only offered walk on positions. Now you tell me a guy who is all around the strongest player in the area, winning player of the year awards for his local conference and upsetting sports powerhouse Mater Dei from socal to win the state championship his senior year, gets zero scholarship offers from Pac10 teams? Race has to be one of those reasons.
Then you look at the fact that he was tearing it up at Harvard, when Harvard faced Santa Clara University (which is like 20 minutes away from his hometown Palo Alto) the whole crowd was cheering for Lin and Harvard and not SCU.
Nobody at the GSW's are holding accountability for being the ones to decide to release Lin after the rookie year. The new head coach even says that he never really looked at Lin and didn't look at the guard position closely (Why?). Nobody wants to admit that they were the ones who didnt' see the potential in this guy, in the largest Asian-American and Taiwanese-American market in the US. You want to believe that nobody in even the GSW's front office got rid of him at least PARTIALLY because he's Asian and they didn't see him as athletic enough, as strong enough, as fast as any other guard in the NBA then you're out of your mind.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation.
He isn't saving Asian Americans from oppression but keep in mind that Asian-Americans have no place in pop culture or traditional media except as laughing stocks and punchlines. You see that there are almost no Asian Americans signed to major record labels or deals, or in positions in hollywood or television. People ask why a lot of the most subscribed channels on Youtube are Asians well thats because that is the medium for Asians to get any sort of spotlight. I once saw some video I think by Timothydelaghetto answering why all these asians are on youtube, singers, rappers, whatever and why they always hang out together and go to these performances and shows together and he answered with that. That this is the Asian-American medium and embrace it because traditional media doesn't allow for Asians to be a part of it.
Something as simple as a kid who's been looked over his whole life, averaging 25 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg in these past 5 games now. Believe it or not, but that IS a step in the direction of heralding a change in culture.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal.
If you think that there is no segregation or equal rights of Asian Americans in traditional media then you're an idiot.
Well, maybe im not assessing the AAM situation correctly. We don't have a lot high profile asians in the media here either but asians are mostly respected in all fields of society and certainly not a laughing stock, which you cant say for all the other ethnicities over here.
Anyways, asians are on the rise in pretty much every public area right now. I see a lot more asians in movies and tv-shows than I did ten years ago. K-pop and korean cinema are on the rise, asian dancers are making their way into pop culture and we have an asian party leader in politics over here.
Lin for me represents an individual overcoming the odds and working his way up while facing many obstacles. He's a basketball player living his dream.He doesn't represent the whole movement of an ethnicity and i find it a lot to put on his shoulders in any case.
On February 13 2012 00:24 Zlasher wrote: They're not portraying him as a guy who's saving a race or a culture at all, its just showing that there is a truly inspirational story. This is a guy who broke records at his local high school which is, quite literally, 20 feet across the street from Stanford. His dream schools were Pac10 teams like UCLA, which the coach later admitted that Lin was good enough to start for UCLA, but he was only offered walk on positions. Now you tell me a guy who is all around the strongest player in the area, winning player of the year awards for his local conference and upsetting sports powerhouse Mater Dei from socal to win the state championship his senior year, gets zero scholarship offers from Pac10 teams? Race has to be one of those reasons.
Then you look at the fact that he was tearing it up at Harvard, when Harvard faced Santa Clara University (which is like 20 minutes away from his hometown Palo Alto) the whole crowd was cheering for Lin and Harvard and not SCU.
Nobody at the GSW's are holding accountability for being the ones to decide to release Lin after the rookie year. The new head coach even says that he never really looked at Lin and didn't look at the guard position closely (Why?). Nobody wants to admit that they were the ones who didnt' see the potential in this guy, in the largest Asian-American and Taiwanese-American market in the US. You want to believe that nobody in even the GSW's front office got rid of him at least PARTIALLY because he's Asian and they didn't see him as athletic enough, as strong enough, as fast as any other guard in the NBA then you're out of your mind.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation.
He isn't saving Asian Americans from oppression but keep in mind that Asian-Americans have no place in pop culture or traditional media except as laughing stocks and punchlines. You see that there are almost no Asian Americans signed to major record labels or deals, or in positions in hollywood or television. People ask why a lot of the most subscribed channels on Youtube are Asians well thats because that is the medium for Asians to get any sort of spotlight. I once saw some video I think by Timothydelaghetto answering why all these asians are on youtube, singers, rappers, whatever and why they always hang out together and go to these performances and shows together and he answered with that. That this is the Asian-American medium and embrace it because traditional media doesn't allow for Asians to be a part of it.
Something as simple as a kid who's been looked over his whole life, averaging 25 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg in these past 5 games now. Believe it or not, but that IS a step in the direction of heralding a change in culture.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal.
If you think that there is no segregation or equal rights of Asian Americans in traditional media then you're an idiot.
Well, maybe im not assessing the AAM situation correctly. We don't have a lot high profile asians in the media here either but asians are mostly respected in all fields of society and certainly not a laughing stock, which you cant say for all the other ethnicities over here.
Anyways, asians are on the rise in pretty much every public area right now. I see a lot more asians in movies and tv-shows than I did ten years ago. K-pop and korean cinema are on the rise, asian dancers are making their way into pop culture and we have an asian party leader in politics over here.
Lin for me represents an individual overcoming the odds and working his way up while facing many obstacles. He's a basketball player living his dream.He doesn't represent the whole movement of an ethnicity and i find it a lot to put on his shoulders in any case.
You're not, and that's why you seem like you're missing the point. He isn't saving AAMs from oppression, but he is breaking stereotypes all on his own. No need to downplay what he is actually doing, seeing is it's not negatively impacting anyone, and instead is just giving some limelight to an entire population in America that's largely undervalued.
^Exactly. Nobody ever said Lin is saving AAMs from oppression. Who knows where antigrav is coming up with that idea. Neither did I ever equate him to Jackie Robinson. Guy has serious issues with reading.
I outlined the phenomena that a single individual can change how society views entire issues then gave Jackie Robinson as a prime example of that phenomena. At no point did I ever say Jeremy Lin is the Asian Jackie Robinson. Antigrav made an erroneous leap of logic then began to defend it ferociously, therefore I saw no point in bothering to rebut any of his points.
The Knicks needs melo to do isolation during times like the 2nd half vs the wolves when JLin is cold, and defense made it too hard for him to go anywhere near the basket.
The best thing about Lin's game is his ability to read the formation of the defense. He takes full advantage of that and figures out a route to the net. But in terms of athletic ability and shooting he's pretty average. I think he's massively overachieved and when teams force him outside the paint he's gonna have a hard time keeping up these numbers unless he really works on his jumpshot. In terms of passing he does a lot of generic shit like driving and then dishing out when he gets double teamed. Despite what anyone says, he's not even close to Steve Nash.
I just think when Stat and Carmelo Anthony returns he's going to have to be extra good on his passing game for this team to really thrive. If he wants to the #1 or #2 option like he's been lately this team is going to suck.
And regarding Lin = Tebow the only reason people are saying this is because Lin is religious just like Tebow and both are/were winning games when no one expected them to. But Tebow never actually won games for Denver, their defense did almost everything to bide time for TT to make that one lucky throw. Lin actually WINS his team games whether it's through inspiration or making shots. I just hate that people are calling Lin the NBA's version of TT or whoever else cause 17 is just being himself.
Every time I see the term Linsanity, it always reminds me of Vinsanity and Vince Carter. When I first saw Lin play during the exhibition with John Wall, I predicted him to be a Steve Blake-type player during his time in Portland. The Knicks always had a problem with PG play after they let go of Billups in order to sign Chandler, and Lin fills the role better than trying to shove Fields, Shumpert, and Douglas into a PG role. D'Antoni's system requires a PG with good court vision to play the offense.
I think the biggest impact that Lin has is the fact that without Amare or Anthony, the defense has played much better. When Amare or Melo comes back, his numbers are going to go down, and the fans have to accept that. Even though Lin is a great story, I cannot bear to cheer as a Knicks fan until Anthony is gone.
On February 13 2012 14:52 buickskylark wrote: The best thing about Lin's game is his ability to read the formation of the defense. He takes full advantage of that and figures out a route to the net. But in terms of athletic ability and shooting he's pretty average. I think he's massively overachieved and when teams force him outside the paint he's gonna have a hard time keeping up these numbers unless he really works on his jumpshot. In terms of passing he does a lot of generic shit like driving and then dishing out when he gets double teamed. Despite what anyone says, he's not even close to Steve Nash.
I just think when Stat and Carmelo Anthony returns he's going to have to be extra good on his passing game for this team to really thrive. If he wants to the #1 or #2 option like he's been lately this team is going to suck.
this boggles my mind. why do people think that lin will get worse with the addition of two really really fucking good stars? stoud and melo will only make things easier for lin. maybe he wont get many shots, but heck he will be more rested and he will be able to dish it for a guaranteed two. less heat on lin too.
edit: am i missing something? not too knowledge in basketball, so I might be confused with each player's specific role.
I actually feel lost... the strangest thing isn't even that he's Asian or that he made Harvard. I've never seen a player really come out of nowhere in the middle of the season and play so well. The hipster basketball nerd in me is disappointed that I didn't see it coming.... I barely knew who he was a week ago.
On February 13 2012 14:52 buickskylark wrote: The best thing about Lin's game is his ability to read the formation of the defense. He takes full advantage of that and figures out a route to the net. But in terms of athletic ability and shooting he's pretty average. I think he's massively overachieved and when teams force him outside the paint he's gonna have a hard time keeping up these numbers unless he really works on his jumpshot. In terms of passing he does a lot of generic shit like driving and then dishing out when he gets double teamed. Despite what anyone says, he's not even close to Steve Nash.
I just think when Stat and Carmelo Anthony returns he's going to have to be extra good on his passing game for this team to really thrive. If he wants to the #1 or #2 option like he's been lately this team is going to suck.
this boggles my mind. why do people think that lin will get worse with the addition of two really really fucking good stars? stoud and melo will only make things easier for lin. maybe he wont get many shots, but heck he will be more rested and he will be able to dish it for a guaranteed two. less heat on lin too.
edit: am i missing something? not too knowledge in basketball, so I might be confused with each player's specific role.
I don't think anyone really said that, it's just that his production will go down as he won't be allowed to dominate the ball so much. Don't expect him to score 40 points often once he has to share the ball / teams focus more on him / he isn't defended by Fisher.... He could still be a very nice player though.
On February 13 2012 00:24 Zlasher wrote: Nobody at the GSW's are holding accountability for being the ones to decide to release Lin after the rookie year. The new head coach even says that he never really looked at Lin and didn't look at the guard position closely (Why?)
They have Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry in the backcourt. It's a very strong backcourt and their franchise is revolved around these two. They wouldn't have given Lin a shot even if he does well in practice against either of them.
On October 26 2010 06:32 Random_0 wrote: My pessimistic side can't see Jeremy Lin succeeding for the following reasons: 1) Not quick enough to defend NBA guards. 2) Can't generate a shot off his own dribble against those taller than him. 3) Will be dominated inside.
Funny reading that now. He made his living by blowing by Wall and Dwill off the dribble and scoring inside. Like every single reason he got doubted for :D
Wall isn't a very attentive defender yet and Dwill simply didn't see it coming. This kind of stuff happens. More impressed by his awareness and finishing under the basket, but he really doesn't have all the skills.
I think the difference is Lin is a kid with all the skills overlooked due to his race, and is now performing exceptionally well against some of the best guards in the NBA (Wall, Kobe).
He was getting guarded by Derek Fisher, Steve Blake and Matt Barnes. It's exciting that he came out to play with the spotlight on him, but abusing those three is standard fair by a lot of guards. Look at what Aaron Brooks did against the Lakers. But Brooks has elite quickness, I'm not sure if Lin is elite in any category.
On February 13 2012 19:06 ASNheat wrote: Only TL would know about this guy 2 years before everyone else. TL is my new source for basketball knowledge.
Hardly 2 years before anyone else, the largest sports print newspaper in california (San Jose Mercury News) was talking about Lin since his HS years, and had a lot of coverage for him his senior year at Harvard since Harvard visited Santa Clara U followed by being the first Ivy team to get to the NCAA over Cornell in years etc. They followed his post college days through summer camp with Dallas and then his signing with GSW
On October 26 2010 06:32 Random_0 wrote: My pessimistic side can't see Jeremy Lin succeeding for the following reasons: 1) Not quick enough to defend NBA guards. 2) Can't generate a shot off his own dribble against those taller than him. 3) Will be dominated inside.
Funny reading that now. He made his living by blowing by Wall and Dwill off the dribble and scoring inside. Like every single reason he got doubted for :D
Wall isn't a very attentive defender yet and Dwill simply didn't see it coming. This kind of stuff happens. More impressed by his awareness and finishing under the basket, but he really doesn't have all the skills.
I think the difference is Lin is a kid with all the skills overlooked due to his race, and is now performing exceptionally well against some of the best guards in the NBA (Wall, Kobe).
He was getting guarded by Derek Fisher, Steve Blake and Matt Barnes. It's exciting that he came out to play with the spotlight on him, but abusing those three is standard fair by a lot of guards. Look at what Aaron Brooks did against the Lakers. But Brooks has elite quickness, I'm not sure if Lin is elite in any category.
Reminds me of Ricky Davis.
Ah cool, I didn't get to watch the game against the Lakers, I was in class :[ but I do know that Barnes is a decent defender, when he was with Golden State back around 06-08ish years.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
On February 13 2012 15:03 buickskylark wrote: And regarding Lin = Tebow the only reason people are saying this is because Lin is religious just like Tebow and both are/were winning games when no one expected them to. But Tebow never actually won games for Denver, their defense did almost everything to bide time for TT to make that one lucky throw. Lin actually WINS his team games whether it's through inspiration or making shots. I just hate that people are calling Lin the NBA's version of TT or whoever else cause 17 is just being himself.
Lin ≠ Tebow, but Linsanity = Tebowmania. They're both cases of people going crazy over an underdog story without waiting or even really caring to see whether the man can live up to the hype for longer than a few games.
On February 11 2012 15:45 motbob wrote: "In Chinatown, Asian dishes full of MSG. In Manhattan, MSG full of Asian's dishes."
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
On February 13 2012 22:41 Jibba wrote: He was getting guarded by Derek Fisher, Steve Blake and Matt Barnes. It's exciting that he came out to play with the spotlight on him, but abusing those three is standard fair by a lot of guards. Look at what Aaron Brooks did against the Lakers. But Brooks has elite quickness, I'm not sure if Lin is elite in any category.
Reminds me of Ricky Davis.
This
The Lakers Back Court is in absolute shambles at the moment blame whoever you will. Lin's good no doubt but in such a lousy defensive season people like him (and Rubio) for that matter will just do better. What hes done is definately praiseworthy but the Jury is still out. Him being Asian + the knicks finally having something to cheer about is just overhyping and setting up for a lot of shit if things go wrong. I really really hope he does well moving forward.
This guy is delusional, NBA execs err all the time in judging talent, this isn't even drafting a bust with a high pick or overpaying an overrated player, the Jeremy Lin situation was releasing an undrafted point guard while having Ellis/Curry who were and are both stars in the league and in Steph Curry's case, will be Lin's best case scenario if he keeps it up.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
Will the Linsanity continue tonight with Stoudemire? and Why don't teams just double team him off his screen to force ball out of his hands. The Twolves did a good job rotating another big to guard Chandler when they double Lin off the screen. I think teams needs to do more of that.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
I think people compare him to Nash not because of their skill sets, but because they are both relatively small pg's who have good passing/handling ability and both of them make their entire team look better than they actually are.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
I think people compare him to Nash not because of their skill sets, but because they are both relatively small pg's who have good passing/handling ability and both of them make their entire team look better than they actually are.
That's bs. He's got at least 20lbs on Nash and his passing hasn't been anywhere near a Nash/Rubio/Rondo/etc. He made his team look better because he goes pure iso at least half a dozen times per game, and has been winning it against bad or lazy defenders. They don't play the same way at all.
Nash forces people on him because he's a fantastic shooter with incredible quickness. People were playing up on Lin simply because there's no scouting report on him yet. But he's not proving to be a good shooter and he's not as quick. He doesn't drive to pass. He drives to score, and has capitalized on good reads when people begin to play off him.
Hopefully he can adjust and he's just filling the void left by Carmelo and Amare right now, but in the last 5 games everything about him screams shoot first PG.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
I think people compare him to Nash not because of their skill sets, but because they are both relatively small pg's who have good passing/handling ability and both of them make their entire team look better than they actually are.
That's bs. He's got at least 20lbs on Nash and his passing hasn't been anywhere near a Nash/Rubio/Rondo/etc. He made his team look better because he goes pure iso at least half a dozen times per game, and has been winning it against bad defenders. They don't play the same way at all.
Well, yes. They obviously play differently. I'm just saying it seems that way to a lot of people. He's a point guard that the Knicks (without Melo or Stoudmire) would be completely hopeless without him, and would have loss the last 5 games badly. Same way the Suns would be complete garbage without Nash.
The same is true for Tyreke Evans and Ty Lawson and Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams and Kyle Lowry and Rose and Brandon Jennings and Kyrie Irving and ...
"Essential PG" doesn't exactly qualify you for Steve Nash comparisons. Especially when there's a plethora of scoring guards, these days.
I lol'd hard when Magic Johnson compared Lin to a mix between Nash and Stockton, like how racist can you be? Lin is a big point guard, he's more like, or is a combo guard forced to switch to PG in the NBA. He was the main option for Harvard, and now the Knicks because Melo/Amare are gone and no one else can create their own shot. Lin does not finish like most point guards, he straight up outmuscles people if he doesn't blow by them, and he's strong enough to take contact inside and finish. Not really sure who a comparison would be, maybe a less athletic, smarter, doesn't kill an offense Marbury, a bigger, less creative scoring wise, poor man's Tony Parker. Can't think of anyone else.
With that said, his best qualities are poise and basketball intelligence, which are harder to notice and much more rare than a polished offensive skillset or physical attributes.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
I guess I must've missed the part where Okafor came out of nowhere to dominate 5 straight games in the biggest market in the NBA? Okafor is actually the opposite of Lin, he had plenty of hype when he arrived in the league but never really delivered.
If Lin was black he's still get a lot of attention, the fact that he's the first in his demographic to do well only adds to that. But regardless of what you think about the race issue, what he's done is very impressive and unique. I believe he had one of the best performances for a first start in NBA history...
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
You make an silly statement, then give perfectly valid counter arguments... with D'antoni and Stoudemire the Nash comparisons are tempting. People make dumb comparisons all the time, no reason to get that jumpy because of Lin's origins.
I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
Lin hasn't played serious time with Stoudemire yet. That's an invalid argument to the Nash comparison. Everyone that talks about him being a pass first PG is flat out wrong, to this point in his career. It's an assumption because his skin is light and in the last 20 or 30 years basically every white point guard was pass first.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
Why do you think Jackie Robinson got such huge hype? He was the first black MLB player and he was good. Why do you think Eminem got such huge hype? He might not have been the first white mainstream rapper, but he was the best white mainstream rapper by far (arguable the best mainstream rapper regardless of race).
Is it really such a surprise to you that Jeremy Lin is getting hype because of his race? There are pretty much no Asian-Americans in the NBA, ever. People don't think Asians can play ball, so when an Asian shows up who actually has skill no shit hes gonna be famous because of his race. Its not because people are racist against black people that Jeremy Lin is getting props, its because people are racist against Asians that he is. Floyd Mayweather's comment isn't completely untrue at face value, but he obviously thinks its because people are racist against blacks when it comes to the NBA when it clearly is the other way around. Floyd Mayweather's abysmal cognitive ability just can't seem to grasp that simple notion.
Also, getting good grades at UConn (which is not even a top 50 school unless Im mistaken) is not nearly as impressive as getting good grades at Harvard. What do people know UConn for? Basketball, pretty much. What is Harvard known for? Getting your ass kicked in terms of academia. If you can play great basketball and get good grades at a school as tough as Harvard, no shit youre gonna get more attention than someone who went to UConn.
And how the hell did you draw racism from comparisons between Lin and Nash? Mike d'Antoni orchestrated an impressive offense with Nash leading as PG. Now with Lin bringing Knicks back into the light as PG who wouldn't naturally think of making a comparison with Nash? I can't believe you drew comparisons between us Asians and Caucasians based on skin color. So what, were 'yellow' skinned when white people want to hate on us and were 'white' skinned when other minorities want to hate on us? What the fuck is this? There's nothing racist about comparing 2 PGs who are succeeding under d'Antoni. There's everything racist about you saying people only compare Lin to Nash because Lin is pretty much white, as if we Asians don't count for shit except for the fact our skin tone is somewhat more similar to caucasians.
Seriously, re-read your post from an objective point of view and please tell me how your post shouldn't piss off an Asian-American.
PS - It also sounds like you only watch the highlight reels. Just because his highlights aren't all assists doesn't mean hes not passing the ball a lot.
When Tiger Woods created a lot of hype; it was mainly because an African American person was doing well in what most people would call a "White" sport.
Of course, we all know Tiger did more than create hype; he's actually probably the most legendary golfer.. But still.. would he receive the same hype if he was white? I personally don't think so. He would get respect from the golfing community but would the African American community care? Lol.. probably not. If Tiger Woods were white, I'm sure African Americans would just think.. it's just another white dude playing some white sport, whatever.
But the fact that Tiger is African American only added to his legacy. If that's ok for people to accept..
Then it should be ok for people to accept the hype for J.Lin. Most people I talk to seem to be fine with that.. but Mayweather.. what an ass.
On February 14 2012 12:03 Jibba wrote: Lin hasn't played serious time with Stoudemire yet. That's an invalid argument to the Nash comparison. Everyone that talks about him being a pass first PG is flat out wrong, to this point in his career. It's an assumption because his skin is light and in the last 20 or 30 years basically every white point guard was pass first.
And he plays like Sam Cassell did.
He's a well rounded player. How can you say he's a raw scorer? He puts in 30 points, 8 assists, making clutch plays on both ends and is playing decent defense. He has gotten major time(referring to your pervious comments) and he will continue to play major minutes.
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
Why do you think Jackie Robinson got such huge hype? He was the first black MLB player and he was good. Why do you think Eminem got such huge hype? He might not have been the first white mainstream rapper, but he was the best white mainstream rapper by far (arguable the best mainstream rapper regardless of race).
Is it really such a surprise to you that Jeremy Lin is getting hype because of his race? There are pretty much no Asian-Americans in the NBA, ever. People don't think Asians can play ball, so when an Asian shows up who actually has skill no shit hes gonna be famous because of his race. Its not because people are racist against black people that Jeremy Lin is getting props, its because people are racist against Asians that he is. Floyd Mayweather's comment isn't completely untrue at face value, but he obviously thinks its because people are racist against blacks when it comes to the NBA when it clearly is the other way around. Floyd Mayweather's abysmal cognitive ability just can't seem to grasp that simple notion.
No, it goes both ways.
Also, getting good grades at UConn (which is not even a top 50 school unless Im mistaken) is not nearly as impressive as getting good grades at Harvard. What do people know UConn for? Basketball, pretty much. What is Harvard known for? Getting your ass kicked in terms of academia. If you can play great basketball and get good grades at a school as tough as Harvard, no shit youre gonna get more attention than someone who went to UConn.
Are you purposefully dense? Have you gone to college? Graduating with Honors from almost any program is a high scholastic achievement, and UConn is a top 20 public school with a very good business school and financial management program. Beyond that, the people who graduate with Honors and cum laude and above can probably achieve it just about anywhere. The US W&N rankings are hugely meaningless.
And how the hell did you draw racism from comparisons between Lin and Nash? Mike d'Antoni orchestrated an impressive offense with Nash leading as PG. Now with Lin bringing Knicks back into the light as PG who wouldn't naturally think of making a comparison with Nash? I can't believe you drew comparisons between us Asians and Caucasians based on skin color. So what, were 'yellow' skinned when white people want to hate on us and were 'white' skinned when other minorities want to hate on us? What the fuck is this? There's nothing racist about comparing 2 PGs who are succeeding under d'Antoni. There's everything racist about you saying people only compare Lin to Nash because Lin is pretty much white, as if we Asians don't count for shit except for the fact our skin tone is somewhat more similar to caucasians.
Seriously, re-read your post from an objective point of view and please tell me how your post shouldn't piss off an Asian-American.
Well, I'm an Asian-American and I'm not pissed off by my post, so is that a start? Beyond that, I actually watch basketball avidly. I'm not so sure that's the case for most people here.
His play has nothing to do with Nash and d'Antoni isn't even running all the same schemes. Don Nelson coached Steve Nash too. Did anyone start making Nash comparisons when Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry were playing under him? How Tim Hardaway? Baron Davis?
PS - It also sounds like you only watch the highlight reels. Just because his highlights aren't all assists doesn't mean hes not passing the ball a lot.
He was completely dominating the ball against the Lakers, rightfully so because the Lakers have terrible PGs. He tried it against Minnesota and it worked when he didn't have Rubio. He did it against the Wizard, and started gathering assists when they backed off. Assists are not the measure of how a PG distributes or dominates the ball, anyways. His passing is above average, but other scoring guards like Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans have tons of games with 8+ assists, and no one confuses them for a true PG.
He's got fresh legs during a shortened season, and he's mopping up when there's no one else on his team worth giving the ball to. We see big numbers from that latter combination all the time. That he stepped it up during a nationally televised game against the Lakers speaks to very good things about his mentality and he certainly displays plenty of charisma, but he's just hugely overhyped. If we were re-doing the 2010 draft, I still wouldn't take him in the first round.
On February 14 2012 14:32 jjun212 wrote: Some journalist said it best I think;
When Tiger Woods created a lot of hype; it was mainly because an African American person was doing well in what most people would call a "White" sport.
Of course, we all know Tiger did more than create hype; he's actually probably the most legendary golfer.. But still.. would he receive the same hype if he was white? I personally don't think so. He would get respect from the golfing community but would the African American community care? Lol.. probably not. If Tiger Woods were white, I'm sure African Americans would just think.. it's just another white dude playing some white sport, whatever.
But the fact that Tiger is African American only added to his legacy. If that's ok for people to accept..
Then it should be ok for people to accept the hype for J.Lin. Most people I talk to seem to be fine with that.. but Mayweather.. what an ass.
Are you seriously what Tiger Woods achieved in his sport to what Lin is doing ? But Ill just repeat, kids looking good in a bad defense season, he can run to the rim and (honestly the help D in the lakers game was trash). Its just to early I'd love him to do well but I'd rather be humble and patient about it instead of calling him the real deal.
Tiger was a prodigy way before anyone realised he was of african american decent. Even so his race has nothing to do with how is seen as a golfer by those who actually like the sport, but you already said that. More importantly his hype had nothing to do with race atleast amongst his own ethnicity. Because there really wasnt that much hype and I remember quite well. Unlike Asians for Lin. African americans still dont really care. Its still a niche sport no matter how much you fluff it up. African Americans already had athletes and heroes they could relate to and still do they never needed Tiger woods to be their Lin. So they didnt really care and still really dont, not the way they would treat an MJ anyway.
Tiger Woods comparison? The most dominant athlete for several years in their sport vs. a top 20 PG who had 4.5 good games in a row during the regular season of a shortened season, when players are exhausted and defense is a luxury until April.
On February 13 2012 00:24 Zlasher wrote: They're not portraying him as a guy who's saving a race or a culture at all, its just showing that there is a truly inspirational story. This is a guy who broke records at his local high school which is, quite literally, 20 feet across the street from Stanford. His dream schools were Pac10 teams like UCLA, which the coach later admitted that Lin was good enough to start for UCLA, but he was only offered walk on positions. Now you tell me a guy who is all around the strongest player in the area, winning player of the year awards for his local conference and upsetting sports powerhouse Mater Dei from socal to win the state championship his senior year, gets zero scholarship offers from Pac10 teams? Race has to be one of those reasons.
Then you look at the fact that he was tearing it up at Harvard, when Harvard faced Santa Clara University (which is like 20 minutes away from his hometown Palo Alto) the whole crowd was cheering for Lin and Harvard and not SCU.
Nobody at the GSW's are holding accountability for being the ones to decide to release Lin after the rookie year. The new head coach even says that he never really looked at Lin and didn't look at the guard position closely (Why?). Nobody wants to admit that they were the ones who didnt' see the potential in this guy, in the largest Asian-American and Taiwanese-American market in the US. You want to believe that nobody in even the GSW's front office got rid of him at least PARTIALLY because he's Asian and they didn't see him as athletic enough, as strong enough, as fast as any other guard in the NBA then you're out of your mind.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation.
He isn't saving Asian Americans from oppression but keep in mind that Asian-Americans have no place in pop culture or traditional media except as laughing stocks and punchlines. You see that there are almost no Asian Americans signed to major record labels or deals, or in positions in hollywood or television. People ask why a lot of the most subscribed channels on Youtube are Asians well thats because that is the medium for Asians to get any sort of spotlight. I once saw some video I think by Timothydelaghetto answering why all these asians are on youtube, singers, rappers, whatever and why they always hang out together and go to these performances and shows together and he answered with that. That this is the Asian-American medium and embrace it because traditional media doesn't allow for Asians to be a part of it.
Something as simple as a kid who's been looked over his whole life, averaging 25 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg in these past 5 games now. Believe it or not, but that IS a step in the direction of heralding a change in culture.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal.
If you think that there is no segregation or equal rights of Asian Americans in traditional media then you're an idiot.
Recruiting is at a big time level is not about your results in your high school level in basketball or football. Top players play year round against each other all over the country in weekend camps, that is where coaches evaluate most of the talent. And coaches are looking for things other than high school production. A guy with elite athleticism without the basketball smarts or the best shooting touch is often favored because you can't coach size, quickness or the ability to jump out of the gym.
A local example for me is Drake Johnson a local RB. He went to high school across the street from U of Michigan's football stadium. He set the state record for a single season yards, is 6'1" 200Lbs and is a state champion lvl 110 meter hurdler at the D1 level. He barely got an offer despite dominating his high school competition, and being an amazing overall athelete. By barely I mean he got offered in after his senior football season, very late to get an offer if you follow any college football recruiting. I mean I don't follow west coast recruiting for basketball and I might be talking out of my ass. Obviously he had the talent, but if he wasn't participating in the high lvl or national AAU ball it not all that surprising local schools overlooked him. I mean race may have been a factor, but not getting himself the exposure of other recruits likely played a huge role.
Edit: he did play some AAU ball and was offered some walk on spots at UCLA/Cal. Either way guys like him are overlooked by colleges all the time, and to blame it squarely on race is unfair to the coaches that didn't offer him a scholarship. Hell even Harvard wasn't initially going to offer him a spot on the team
“He was like any other average high school players we might see. When I saw his coach, I recommended he go to a Division III school.”
they say him again later and thought he played crazy good, but it wasn't like he was this amazing talent. No one at Harvard would of been willing to say this guy has NBA potential when they were recruiting him.
Anyhow surprised that I didn't see anything in the thread about how big of a douche Jason Whitlock is, going by other incidents he should of possibly lost his job for that tweet, or at least been publicly shamed. Since he a "journalist" he shouldn't be able to get away with
Some lucky lady in NYC is gonna feel a couple inches of pain tonight.
On February 13 2012 00:24 Zlasher wrote: They're not portraying him as a guy who's saving a race or a culture at all, its just showing that there is a truly inspirational story. This is a guy who broke records at his local high school which is, quite literally, 20 feet across the street from Stanford. His dream schools were Pac10 teams like UCLA, which the coach later admitted that Lin was good enough to start for UCLA, but he was only offered walk on positions. Now you tell me a guy who is all around the strongest player in the area, winning player of the year awards for his local conference and upsetting sports powerhouse Mater Dei from socal to win the state championship his senior year, gets zero scholarship offers from Pac10 teams? Race has to be one of those reasons.
Then you look at the fact that he was tearing it up at Harvard, when Harvard faced Santa Clara University (which is like 20 minutes away from his hometown Palo Alto) the whole crowd was cheering for Lin and Harvard and not SCU.
Nobody at the GSW's are holding accountability for being the ones to decide to release Lin after the rookie year. The new head coach even says that he never really looked at Lin and didn't look at the guard position closely (Why?). Nobody wants to admit that they were the ones who didnt' see the potential in this guy, in the largest Asian-American and Taiwanese-American market in the US. You want to believe that nobody in even the GSW's front office got rid of him at least PARTIALLY because he's Asian and they didn't see him as athletic enough, as strong enough, as fast as any other guard in the NBA then you're out of your mind.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation.
He isn't saving Asian Americans from oppression but keep in mind that Asian-Americans have no place in pop culture or traditional media except as laughing stocks and punchlines. You see that there are almost no Asian Americans signed to major record labels or deals, or in positions in hollywood or television. People ask why a lot of the most subscribed channels on Youtube are Asians well thats because that is the medium for Asians to get any sort of spotlight. I once saw some video I think by Timothydelaghetto answering why all these asians are on youtube, singers, rappers, whatever and why they always hang out together and go to these performances and shows together and he answered with that. That this is the Asian-American medium and embrace it because traditional media doesn't allow for Asians to be a part of it.
Something as simple as a kid who's been looked over his whole life, averaging 25 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg in these past 5 games now. Believe it or not, but that IS a step in the direction of heralding a change in culture.
On February 13 2012 00:06 AntiGrav1ty wrote: He played in the MLB when there was segregation. That actually is a fucking big deal.
If you think that there is no segregation or equal rights of Asian Americans in traditional media then you're an idiot.
Dude I hate to be mean, but recruiting is at a big time level is not about your results in your high school level in basketball or football. Top players play year round against each other all over the country in weekend camps, that is where coaches evaluate most of the talent. And coaches are looking for things other than high school production.
A local example for me is Drake Johnson a local RB. He went to high school across the street from U of Michigan's football stadium. He set the state record for a single season yards, is 6'1" 200Lbs and is a state champion lvl 110 meter hurdler at the D1 level. He barely got an offer despite dominating his high school competition, and being an amazing overall athelete. By barely I mean he got offered in after his senior football season, very late to get an offer if you follow any college football recruiting. I mean I don't follow west coast recruiting for basketball and I might be talking out of my ass. Obviously he had the talent, but if he wasn't participating in the high lvl or national AAU ball it not all that surprising local schools overlooked him. I mean race may have been a factor, but not getting himself the exposure of other recruits likely played a huge role.
Exactly this, and while it might be unfair they play aloy of sets, with 3v3's 1v1's that look at your athletic ability. And Lin doesnt really stand out with those qualities. College level recruiters pride themselves on polishing that kind of stuff so theyd rather take a raw beast if that makes any sense.You have to understand that numbers in highschool are really quite meaningless to recruiters if you dont show them the things they have to check mark at the camps. And he probably didnt excel at that. Its like doing well in 20 percent tests all year and failing the exam. Not gonna pass yo. Its not like Lin is the only highschooler with those crazy numbers. Its a big country, competition is fierce which is why the camps are so important.
Fact of the matter is while they may let an occasional Lin slip by they have a recruiting system that by the by works. Maybe there was a matter of race I dont know. Id like to not think that way and give the benefit of the doubt, I mean Nash is SA born Canadian after all he got drafted, so its unfair to play the race card.
Still its a big achievement and mad props to him for sticking to it. Thats alot of courage.
On February 14 2012 12:03 Jibba wrote: Lin hasn't played serious time with Stoudemire yet. That's an invalid argument to the Nash comparison. Everyone that talks about him being a pass first PG is flat out wrong, to this point in his career. It's an assumption because his skin is light and in the last 20 or 30 years basically every white point guard was pass first.
And he plays like Sam Cassell did.
I'm with this guy on all points (not just the quoted ones) except the Sam Cassell comparison, but more in playstyle. I only saw Cassell in his last 3-4 years, but Cassell was the best post-point guard I've ever seen, as in, PG willing to take a smaller defender into the post and back him down. The comparison just doesn't fit for me because in the 3 games I've seen of Lin, have yet to see him take anyone into the post.
As for the guys arguing he's a Pass-first PG, he's really not. I love watching him play because of the fact that he's an incredible story, but he's most certainly not a pass-first PG, he's taking tons of shots. Granted, it's on a squad without a lot of talent offensively at the moment, so we'll see how he does with 'mare and 'melo (yuck, 'melo the black hole.)
Finally, the Mayweather quote. It's about 50% true, the half that's true is there's other guys(black, white, irrelevant) doing what Lin does every single night, the -main- reason he's a big story is simply the fact that he was cut 42 million times, no scholarship, nobody thought he could do it, etc. (a la a Tim Tebow type story). However, there's a lot of attention lavished on him because he is Asian American as well (obviously, specifically from those of Asian descent!)
Anyways, just my thoughts Love me some BBall, and love watching stories like this!
On February 14 2012 15:31 Jibba wrote: No, it goes both ways.
Uhh, you serious? Yeah, black people are totally passed over when it comes to professional athletics. No one thinks black guys can play ball...
Are you purposefully dense? Have you gone to college? Graduating with Honors from almost any program is a high scholastic achievement, and UConn is a top 20 public school with a very good business school and financial management program. Beyond that, the people who graduate with Honors and cum laude and above can probably achieve it just about anywhere. The US W&N rankings are hugely meaningless.
Hmm, no i didn't graduate with honors but I did get a 3.4 at UW (and thats after fucking around and getting a 2.7 average GPA in freshman year) and a 3.5 in my Master's degree in Accounting.
Whatever about my own college career, I honestly don't think its that impressive but I only posted it so you wouldn't think I as just some highschooler talking shit. My point was never that Okafur's academic achievements were mediocre (my fault, I reread my earlier post and I communicated that pretty awfully). My point is the general public's opinion wouldn't have been focused on that because UConn isn't well known for its academic qualities. When people think of top colleges, they think Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc. If someone says "I went to UConn," people will think, "oh thats that basketball school right?" It was never because he was black that his academic achievements were passed over, its because the school he was at is not even close to famous for being a tough academic school.
In fact, it's ridiculous to suggest that somehow if Okafur was Asian that hed be praised for his academic achievements. People would be like, "Dang, an Asian doing well in school? Who woulda guess thatd happen? ....pfffff" No one would care. Which ties into my very first point. The fact that everyone thinks Asians suck at sports is the point where Jeremy Lin's race gets tied into this. No one thinks that black people automatically suck at sports, how in the hell does "it go both ways"??
His play has nothing to do with Nash and d'Antoni isn't even running all the same schemes. Don Nelson coached Steve Nash too. Did anyone start making Nash comparisons when Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry were playing under him? How Tim Hardaway? Baron Davis?
Also, Nash got MVP twice in a row starting the year he played for the Suns under d'Antoni. His most defining moments were with d'Antoni 2004-2006, so bringing up Don Nelson is a bad comparison in any case. Mike d'Antoni's team playing mediocre, gets a key PG and turns shit around. So far its applying to Lin too so I don't see how "light skin" is the natural connection between the two here. You'll have to explain to me where that came from.
Sure, I'll give you that the "pass-first" mentality of Lin is overplayed a bit because he takes it to the basket himself more than people seem to be suggesting. He's not exactly like Nash obviously but there are more similarities than just how "white" he is.
He was completely dominating the ball against the Lakers, rightfully so because the Lakers have terrible PGs. He tried it against Minnesota and it worked when he didn't have Rubio. He did it against the Wizard, and started gathering assists when they backed off. Assists are not the measure of how a PG distributes or dominates the ball, anyways. His passing is above average, but other scoring guards like Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans have tons of games with 8+ assists, and no one confuses them for a true PG.
He's got fresh legs during a shortened season, and he's mopping up when there's no one else on his team worth giving the ball to. We see big numbers from that latter combination all the time.
One of his biggest weaknesses is how often he turns over the ball. From what I saw those mostly came from bad passes, but I would have to watch the games again to judge it better. I don't really know where I'm going with this part, but I think he is "pass-first" enough for people to play up his team mentality or draw connections to Nash. More so than his skin color in any case.
Well, I'm an Asian-American and I'm not pissed off by my post, so is that a start?
Again you're gonna have to explain to me why, as an Asian-American, you would ever bring up our skin tone as a reason for a fellow Asian-American's success. I mean, if it was obvious then I wouldn't bring up any issues with it, but in this case it seems like you would have had to make an effort to draw that connection between Lin and Nash. I'm not even mad at this point and I'm sorry for my earlier rage-filled post. Right now I'm just a little confused.
I believe Mayweather said that being Asian was the ONLY reason he was getting all this attention and I think that's what most people have problems with. Anyone with half a brain knows that when you tear away the hype that Lin is probably just a 'good' basketball player. Not a savior and certainly not on the same level as elite PGs in the NBA.
But if you knew about his story as I do and by now everyone sure as heck does, you can't help but be inspired. These past 5 games have been nothing short of magical considering what was happening to that Knicks team. As I see it, being Asian was one of MANY things, the couch, the constant rejections, the amazing streak of 5 wins and the stats and records he's accumulated in this short amount of time, and the way he just exploded into the scene is what's creating this frenzy.
If he was putting up 10 points and the Knicks were 0-5 or something then there would be no hype; no Linsanity. It really was quite the suckerpunch.
Just know that everything was completely STACKED against Jeremy Lin. Most people in his position would have called it quits long ago and just got a desk job to make mom and dad happy. This type of story is extremely rare. Tim Tebow doesn't even come close to being in the same level as far as comparisons go. The dude got drafted even though everyone knew he sucked at QB. Lin for all his pre-NBA success didn't so much as get a look. So it's kinda funny when Mayweather says that it's only because he's Asian. Well guess what? Being Asian was probably why he was overlooked for so long in the first place.
it is obviously a bit of both. he is a player that came out of nowhere (underrated and tough road) and won for the knicks. also he is asian so there is azn fever (first taiwanese in nba). it's both, people who say otherwise are kidding themselves. AND tbh it ain't a bad thing. good for nba, good for asia and love for everyone. so who cares folks just enjoy the jeremy lin show!
Anyhow surprised that I didn't see anything in the thread about how big of a douche Jason Whitlock is, going by other incidents he should of possibly lost his job for that tweet, or at least been publicly shamed. Since he a "journalist" he shouldn't be able to get away with
On February 14 2012 16:35 Supamang wrote: No one thinks that black people automatically suck at sports, how in the hell does "it go both ways"??
That's exactly how. There's a stereotype that black athletes don't work hard for their careers, but have simply been imbued with natural talent.
Sure, I'll give you that the "pass-first" mentality of Lin is overplayed a bit because he takes it to the basket himself more than people seem to be suggesting. He's not exactly like Nash obviously but there are more similarities than just how "white" he is.
They have the same coach and by the end of tonight, they will have started a game with the same PF, and they both play PG. That's literally the only comparison between their play style and attributes.
Ignore the Nash comparison for a moment. What about the Stockton comparison? Magic Johnson and others have said he plays like John Stockton too. A guy who averaged 10 less shots per game than Lin, 3 less rebounds and 5 more assists. A guy who was always a shooting threat and never much of a driving threat. Aside from playing PG, where does John Stockton fit with Jeremy Lin?
The comparison is Jeremy Lin with John Stockton/Steve Nash. Now Nash and Stockton, I can see, although Nash is far more athletic. And if you really want to stick to the D'Antoni route, Lin and Nash had the same coach. Lin and Stockton? Steve Nash has the potential to score in similar ways, but the big scoring nights Stockton had were all from the 3 point line. The only thing similar between those two together is the position they play, and a hexadecimal value.
Sure, I'll give you that the "pass-first" mentality of Lin is overplayed a bit because he takes it to the basket himself more than people seem to be suggesting. He's not exactly like Nash obviously but there are more similarities than just how "white" he is.
They have the same coach and by the end of tonight, they will have started a game with the same PF, and they both play PG. That's literally the only comparison between their play style and attributes.
Ignore the Nash comparison for a moment. What about the Stockton comparison? Magic Johnson and others have said he plays like John Stockton too. A guy who averaged 10 less shots per game than Lin, 3 less rebounds and 5 more assists. A guy who was always a shooting threat and never much of a driving threat. Aside from playing PG, where does John Stockton fit with Jeremy Lin?
The comparison is Jeremy Lin with John Stockton/Steve Nash. Now Nash and Stockton, I can see, although Nash is far more athletic. And if you really want to stick to the D'Antoni route, Lin and Nash had the same coach. Lin and Stockton? Steve Nash has the potential to score in similar ways, but the big scoring nights Stockton had were all from the 3 point line. The only thing similar between those two together is the position they play, and a hexadecimal value.
I don't think it's racist to compare Lin with Nash. Even your points alone are more similarity than any two given contemporary starters (that I can think of) have in common. Same coach, running same plays with same player.
Addtionally, the difference in stats between their assist/shot ratio is alternatively explained by the nature of the pick and roll and the fact that Lin is new and has so far been underestimated. A well executed PR forces a mismatch favoring either the PG or the screen. Whether you take the shot or whether you pass the ball down is a decision that depends entirely on whether the PG or the screen's position is more favorable after the cut. The assumption that Lin would favor the pass may be the precise reason he's been so successful at field goals. Defense favoring the PG mismatch over the screen gives Lin many open shots or weakly positioned rotations vulnerable for penetration.
The fact that Nash and what Lin has shown over the past two weeks represent a very active style of play, as compared to arguably more boring isolation plays is a very striking similarity. Also as one of the most respected PGs in the league, Nash is a very complimentary target for comparison for any up and coming PG, regardless of race.
So yeah.... it's tough to ignore the Nash comparison when it's such a compelling one.
I will somewhat put up with Nash comparisons because Nash is a slasher and just very active like Lin, and they have been under the same head coach(sure, different systems, players etc, but many bandwagon people won't see that), but these Stockton comparisons are 100% racist.
If you want a good comparison, I think Tony Parker of about 5 years ago is a good comparison. Very good at getting the ball up off of drives, mediocre shooter, but very active, and a relentless attacker that knows both how to pass and finish.
On February 14 2012 14:32 jjun212 wrote: Some journalist said it best I think;
When Tiger Woods created a lot of hype; it was mainly because an African American person was doing well in what most people would call a "White" sport.
Of course, we all know Tiger did more than create hype; he's actually probably the most legendary golfer.. But still.. would he receive the same hype if he was white? I personally don't think so. He would get respect from the golfing community but would the African American community care? Lol.. probably not. If Tiger Woods were white, I'm sure African Americans would just think.. it's just another white dude playing some white sport, whatever.
But the fact that Tiger is African American only added to his legacy. If that's ok for people to accept..
Then it should be ok for people to accept the hype for J.Lin. Most people I talk to seem to be fine with that.. but Mayweather.. what an ass.
Also, you do realize that Tiger Woods is half asian and only a quarter black, right? I don't remember any "Golfing Sensasian!" articles about Woods. The public's emphasis is on appearance, not ethnicity.
This guy is delusional, NBA execs err all the time in judging talent, this isn't even drafting a bust with a high pick or overpaying an overrated player, the Jeremy Lin situation was releasing an undrafted point guard while having Ellis/Curry who were and are both stars in the league and in Steph Curry's case, will be Lin's best case scenario if he keeps it up.
Of course Curry/Monta are stars but the point is have you seen what the execs have been saying? The owner tries throwing the blame on the former head coach Keith Smart and saying "he didn't give him a chance", its the constant deflecting of blame for losing their second most marketable player with the ability to drop 38 points or 8+ assists on a night. He's not delusional he's dead on about the fact nobody wants to say "yeah we released him for the 400k more cap room that didn't pan out whatsoever in free agency"
Floyd Mayweather Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
If only Floyd could point out all these black players that go through college without a basketball scholarship at an Ivy League school and dominate out of nowhere in the NBA after going undrafted.
You need a lot of money to go to an Ivy League school without a scholarship, and that's the main barrier for most players. And if Lin had gone to Stanford or Syracuse or Florida State, he'd still receive the same amount of hype for being an Asian American. I don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with what Mayweather said.
Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years with honors and a 3.8 GPA in finance. It got some play at the time, but really no one cares about it. If he were Asian or Jewish (remember Tamir Goodman, "The Jewish Jordan"?) or some other underrepresented group, it'd be huge. It shouldn't be a knock against anyone though, it seems pretty natural to root for someone from your ethnicity, location, religion, school, hobby, etc.
What's probably more racist than anything else are the comparisons Lin is getting to Steve Nash, just because they both have white skin. Maybe I need to watch more, but I really don't see many similarities between them at all, or where people get the idea that Lin is a "true" ie pass first point guard. Granted, the Knicks don't have much offensive talent at the moment so someone needs to step up, but that doesn't mean you can call him a pass first point guard when he's averaging over 19 shots per game. Not to mention he's a turnover machine at over 4 per game.
Nash is a small and quick guy that out thinks a lot of people and is a deadly shooter. Lin is not particularly quick and isn't a great shooter (at least so far) and he's not a small guy. I haven't seen enough to know how smart he is (he seems to have good awareness) but he's a 6'3" 200lbs guy who takes it himself a lot and seems to be a really good finisher. He's also a much more active rebounder.
It really does remain to be seen how he'll fit in with Amare and (more importantly) Carmelo, because he's only gone through spurts where he's a pass first PG and the rest of the time he's been a bit of a black hole (just like Carmelo), even against defenders he shouldn't try going against.
Honestly, anyone who compares him to Nash at this point should immediately be called a racist. The only reasonable point of comparison is that they're playing under the same coach and pretty soon they will have shared a big man, but at this point in time there's nothing else between them. Mostly people are doing it because their skin has a similar hue. If Steve Blake suddenly could make a Sportscenter highlight, he'd be getting the same dumb treatment. Although at least Blake really is a pass first PG.
At the very least, he's got me interested in the Knicks because it's tiring to see the ball in Carmelo's hands all the time. I'll cheer for him and I'm glad a smart kid who went undrafted is putting on a show, but through 5 games he doesn't look like anything beyond a scoring PG and those are a dime a dozen in the NBA.
EDIT: I like the comparison to Sam Cassell a lot lot lot lot more.
Didn't Okafor go to Uconn though? Which is like...in the nicest way possible, an easy academic school compared to others (Harvard?). I mean even Marshawn Lynch got a 3.3 at UC Berkeley when he played football there but you hear him talk and he is dumb as a rock sometimes. I don't really think looking into athletes with scholarships and star players going IN TO college, can have their grades examined. Okafor was one of the top 10 HS players going into college and was the #1 that didn't enter the NBA Draft out of HS, schools do protect their athletes (doesn't mean 3.8 with honors but I don't look into a 3.8 at Uconn the same as Lin's 3.0 or 3.2 he says, at Harvard). Like I said, watch Marshawn Lynch interviews and tell me how he gets a 3.3 at Berkeley
You guys are arguing the wrong thing completely. We need to figure out if he is Chinese or exiled Taiwanese... It clearly says he is either Chinese or Taiwanese descent but it makes a huge difference and will change the fanbase.
Only changes the fanbase somewhat, because in the end he is still an Asian American. His parents are from Taiwan so you could say he is Taiwanese American but its the American born Asian part of it that resonates the most.
On February 15 2012 01:04 needcomputer wrote: You guys are arguing the wrong thing completely. We need to figure out if he is Chinese or exiled Taiwanese... It clearly says he is either Chinese or Taiwanese descent but it makes a huge difference and will change the fanbase.
He's American. He was born here 23 years ago (his parents moved here around 35 years ago). His ethnicity is Chinese (his mother is from China, his father's side has been in Taiwan for two generations, having emigrated from China). He's not aboriginal Taiwanese. Wikipedia. So there's no question about his nationality and little question about his ethnicity (unless we believe that two generations on an island is enough to change ethnicity - which I concede isn't out of the question).
I don't see how this will change his fanbase. Chinese fans will say that he's Chinese. Taiwanese fans will say that he's Taiwanese. American fans will say that he's Asian-American. He'll (rightly) say that he's all three.
I'm just impressed he came off of a couch, worked his magic, and went straight back into a couch for 4 games. He's a good player no doubt, but I want to see him stacked up against a strong, fast athletic PG. I'm not intending to demean his accomplishments, but Derek Fisher kinda sucks. He'd prove more if he was up against a star PG.
On February 15 2012 01:56 Weedk wrote: I'm just impressed he came off of a couch, worked his magic, and went straight back into a couch for 4 games. He's a good player no doubt, but I want to see him stacked up against a strong, fast athletic PG. I'm not intending to demean his accomplishments, but Derek Fisher kinda sucks. He'd prove more if he was up against a star PG.
He deserves more credit for his speed and pace than I was giving him. Still not top quickness, but his speed is great and his quickness is good. And he is a great finisher. Awareness is good, but he forces more passes and shots than he should and sometimes has to get bailed out. Quick, low dribble, which is good.
I didn't notice before but he prefers his right way too much to his left. The speed he gets on long drives to his right doesn't happen to his left, and he doesn't finish nearly as well. It's also where a disproportionate amount of his dribbling turnovers come from. When he goes left, it's most likely a pass, or he'll try and cross over or spin back to the right. Very rarely does he ever try to finish or shoot to his left. Maybe 10%. His options when going to the right are pretty even between an easy pass (or lob) and drive. Going to the left, he's most likely going to pass it to the screener or try and drive back to his right. He usually ends up in the middle or top of the key where he might shoot or pass, but he can get caught in dangerous territory here.
On February 15 2012 01:56 Weedk wrote: I'm just impressed he came off of a couch, worked his magic, and went straight back into a couch for 4 games. He's a good player no doubt, but I want to see him stacked up against a strong, fast athletic PG. I'm not intending to demean his accomplishments, but Derek Fisher kinda sucks. He'd prove more if he was up against a star PG.
You mean D.William and John Wall?
DWill has gotten lazy in NJ and he doesn't get help like he did before. I wouldn't consider Wall a specimen for defense either. I'm much more curious about the rematch with NJ because now that he has a scouting report, I don't think DWill will let it happen twice. Rubio has done the best on him this whole streak, simply because he played to his right and forced Lin into being sloppy, but Rubio is also way too aggressive with ball hawking.
I think most of us are waiting for him to play vs someone like D. Rose at this point before really making a definitive judgment on his long term value. I like what hes doing so far (even without considering the stereotype crushing) but looking at it from an objective point of view, it really is too early to be getting so hyped up. 5-0 streak is a great thing to celebrate, but I wouldn't make long term judgements yet.
He's playing Toronto in 2 hours and for the first time I get to watch him in HD as opposed to the muddy internet streams the last 5 games. I think it's possible there be an upset, if not at least a big drop off in performance from Lin considering the HC of the Raptors is more than familiar with D'antoni's offense.
On February 15 2012 05:25 Supamang wrote: I think most of us are waiting for him to play vs someone like D. Rose at this point before really making a definitive judgment on his long term value. I like what hes doing so far (even without considering the stereotype crushing) but looking at it from an objective point of view, it really is too early to be getting so hyped up. 5-0 streak is a great thing to celebrate, but I wouldn't make long term judgements yet.
He did play against Kobe and the Lakers, and played phenomenally against them.
On February 15 2012 05:25 Supamang wrote: I think most of us are waiting for him to play vs someone like D. Rose at this point before really making a definitive judgment on his long term value. I like what hes doing so far (even without considering the stereotype crushing) but looking at it from an objective point of view, it really is too early to be getting so hyped up. 5-0 streak is a great thing to celebrate, but I wouldn't make long term judgements yet.
He did play against Kobe and the Lakers, and played phenomenally against them.
He played against Derek Fisher and the Lakers, who had played a tough Boston team the night before. Kobe was on him for probably 2 plays, at most. It's great but Jose Calderon just dropped 30 on the Lakers and Louis Williams had 25 points in 25 minutes. PG > Lakers
His game against the Nets was really the most impressive all around game so far. I can't wait to see the rematch next week.
On February 15 2012 05:25 Supamang wrote: I think most of us are waiting for him to play vs someone like D. Rose at this point before really making a definitive judgment on his long term value. I like what hes doing so far (even without considering the stereotype crushing) but looking at it from an objective point of view, it really is too early to be getting so hyped up. 5-0 streak is a great thing to celebrate, but I wouldn't make long term judgements yet.
He did play against Kobe and the Lakers, and played phenomenally against them.
He played against Derek Fisher and the Lakers, who had played a tough Boston team the night before. Kobe was on him for probably 2 plays, at most. It's great but Jose Calderon just dropped 30 on the Lakers and Louis Williams had 25 points in 25 minutes. PG > Lakers
His game against the Nets was really the most impressive all around game so far. I can't wait to see the rematch next week.
Boy I can't wait til the GSW plays the Lakers then so Steph and Monta can drop bombs lol
On February 15 2012 09:51 Jibba wrote: Ok, the Knicks are ridiculously bad. Lin deserves even more credit than I previously thought for winning with this team.
Also, how does D'Antoni still have a job?
People give him a lot of credit for what Nash did in Phoenix when D'Antoni was around.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Rofl talk about finishing strong, 8 points in the last 5 minutes, 27 points 11 assists and the game winner with half a second sorta makes up for the 8 turnovers lol
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
lol offensive rebounds? Were we watching the same game tonight? Knicks got dominated on that front. And everybody was turning the ball over in the 4th on both sides.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
His team also has issues catching the ball and there's 1 person trying to play defense for 3.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
lol offensive rebounds? Were we watching the same game tonight? Knicks got dominated on that front. And everybody was turning the ball over in the 4th on both sides.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
His team also has issues catching the ball and there's 1 person trying to play defense for 3.
the guy wearing #1 was doing bad defense vs the pick and roll for like 4 plays in a row, but after a timeout, he was playing that a lot better. I also saw a lot of balls not being handle right, but also saw a lot of Lin being careless with the ball, and got his ball rip out of his hands too. I think this team has a chance to get stronger and improve together.
I'm sorry but Lin is the real deal and he's the most exciting thing in the sports world right now. I never thought this game would end like this. NEVER.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
lol offensive rebounds? Were we watching the same game tonight? Knicks got dominated on that front. And everybody was turning the ball over in the 4th on both sides.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
His team also has issues catching the ball and there's 1 person trying to play defense for 3.
Typically good players playing on good teams only drags down their stats. Never seen it the other way around. *Assuming they were good before the trade.
On February 15 2012 11:37 Jibba wrote: HUGE clutch plays by Lin there.
The sad thing is I'm starting to think he could actually be something better if he was on a better team. Obviously he's shining atm, but the Knicks completely expose his weaknesses. He makes them better, but they make him worse.
Can you explain that a little more plz? how can his team drag him down? Lin is very unrefine, he keeps turning the ball over, his team bail him out many times with clutch steals and offensive rebrounds.
His team also has issues catching the ball and there's 1 person trying to play defense for 3.
Typically good players playing on good teams only drags down their stats. Never seen it the other way around. *Assuming they were good before the trade.
The stats are irrelevant, I'm just talking about actual play.
On February 15 2012 12:29 buickskylark wrote: lots of knicks jerseys too so i'd imagine alot of new yorkers travelled north. Not really surprised too and they got their money's worth.
There might have also been a lot of Asian Canadians there as well, cheering Lin on.
This game was pretty entertaining and the ending is a good way to continue the hype for linsanity.
Yes, I would agree that the hype is overrated, but joining the hype makes it more fun to watch and root for Lin. He is still a rookie and young, so he has a lot of room for improvement. I expect to see him get much better in the next few years and start making eight digits.
He looks legit. Very solid game. Good shooter, can get to the basket, high basketball IQ. Don't expect him to be a perennial all-star but he's a damn good player.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
well he wasn't fantastic in FG (9-20 is solid but not stellar) but I bet he was still fired up from the previous 3 point play. Good clutch shot.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
I thought that was a good decision under that situation(coach didn't draw up a play), his defender is playing off him, that shot was available, and he declined the screen and opted for the isolation play. It would be difficult to drive pass his man since Lin is not the most explosive guy. But I do think they should have called a time out and draw up a play. Which would be a lot higher % than having Lin figure something out on the spot.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
dis dude pretty remarkable story still not sold though. first 3 games were amazing but the last two he has had a decent amount of turnovers and a sub par FG%. that game winner was crazy clutch dough
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
Lin was driving under the influence to night. Got robbed so many times on his way to the basket. Normall you would be right, but shiat, he got the okay from coach for the 3 and the rest is history.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
Lin was driving under the influence to night. Got robbed so many times on his way to the basket. Normall you would be right, but shiat, he got the okay from coach for the 3 and the rest is history.
Normally, drive -> 2 point play is probably highest %. Ability to mix up his play and having nerves to land the 3 after giving 7-8 TOs ... oh man.. he has balls.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
I don't think it's as bad as it seems. Calderon was sagging off so far thinking he'd want to drive. Lin pretty much walked into an open look.
I absolutely hate ESPN and how they over hype everything just to give people like Skip Bayless and Mike and Mike something to talk about... but shit I am jumping on board the Jeremy Lin train. Hopefully he can keep the turnovers down and keep doing his thing and lead the Knicks into the playoffs and actually win a game this year.
That shot at the end was a bad decision though, hah.
People need to stop saying Lin is the tebow of basketball. He's completely on another level. Everyone knows he's actually good, while Tebow was basically just in the right place at the right time. Tebow was built on an established hype train, Lin made himself out of thin air.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
Well, if you look at the end of the game, the play was actually set up for him to take the final shot. I'm sure they would have loved to go in and get an easy drive at with 5 seconds left, but you could see that Jose Calderon was playing relaxed defense, because he didn't want to give up an easy lay up. Seeing this Lin got a great shot off and was able to capitalize. Even if the shot was missed, I would say the play call was the correct call, because you have to ride the guy's confidence while he has it.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
There is no arguing with that. But in my opinion, it makes it even better. It's just all around PURE MADNESS.
On February 15 2012 13:22 UndoneJin wrote: Forget whether it was a good shot or not, this guy is legit and fun to watch. And he just won his team the game. And that's the 6th game in a row.
Give me a break, this is definitely one of the craziest sports stories I've ever seen, can't wait to see how this develops.
omg, I was watching the last quarter during class and when Lin made that last shot, I jumped in excitement. Then everyone looked at me with a wtf look, lol.
The next 2 games should be easy for Lin and the Knicks, seeing as how Sacramento and New Orleans are the 2 worst teams in the Eastern Conference right now.
The play was probably to drive in and iso one on one, if the defenders on the outside try to come in for a block then he'll kick it out, or he can continue to drive and take a foul.
Also that picture was the spanish national team, pau and marc gasol are in there, among other players, before the 08 olympics. There was a ton of shit involved about that lol
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
well he wasn't fantastic in FG (9-20 is solid but not stellar) but I bet he was still fired up from the previous 3 point play. Good clutch shot.
How is 45% from a guard position not stellar lol? Theres nothing wrong with that at all...
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
Well, if you look at the end of the game, the play was actually set up for him to take the final shot. I'm sure they would have loved to go in and get an easy drive at with 5 seconds left, but you could see that Jose Calderon was playing relaxed defense, because he didn't want to give up an easy lay up. Seeing this Lin got a great shot off and was able to capitalize. Even if the shot was missed, I would say the play call was the correct call, because you have to ride the guy's confidence while he has it.
Cant deny with what you said Jibba, but from what im seeing, they KNOW Lin prefers going right, calderon was backing off the 3 point line because he knew chances are, a drive to the right was the safer play. Calderon was also trying to push lin to the left. In that situation, getting a shot off is way better than driving up to the rim when the other team's expecting it. after all, he's not Kobe who's pretty much impossible to stop without a double/triple team.
His decision to go for a 3pointer pretty nailed the game, he obviously had the feel & confidence that he would be able to get it in. And he did! the ending was amazing! a 3 point play with a layup evening out the score, and getting the final basket off at less than 1sec, and its a 3-pointer?!
that dude has balls of steel. Lesser men would have chosen the safer route of doing the more confident play of driving up trying to get a foul. But Lin basically closed the game out with that 3pointer, everyone knew it.
Awesome job Lin! However he's definitely getting exposed, teams are forcing him to go left all the time, and he's getting double teamed denying him the space to get shots off. This game was a classic example of my reasoning a few posts back. Lin has major weakness going to the left, and his turn over rate is way high. definitely needs improving :D
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
Well, if you look at the end of the game, the play was actually set up for him to take the final shot. I'm sure they would have loved to go in and get an easy drive at with 5 seconds left, but you could see that Jose Calderon was playing relaxed defense, because he didn't want to give up an easy lay up. Seeing this Lin got a great shot off and was able to capitalize. Even if the shot was missed, I would say the play call was the correct call, because you have to ride the guy's confidence while he has it.
Cant deny with what you said Jibba, but from what im seeing, they KNOW Lin prefers going right, calderon was backing off the 3 point line because he knew chances are, a drive to the right was the safer play. Calderon was also trying to push lin to the left. In that situation, getting a shot off is way better than driving up to the rim when the other team's expecting it. after all, he's not Kobe who's pretty much impossible to stop without a double/triple team.
His decision to go for a 3pointer pretty nailed the game, he obviously had the feel & confidence that he would be able to get it in. And he did! the ending was amazing! a 3 point play with a layup evening out the score, and getting the final basket off at less than 1sec, and its a 3-pointer?!
that dude has balls of steel. Lesser men would have chosen the safer route of doing the more confident play of driving up trying to get a foul. But Lin basically closed the game out with that 3pointer, everyone knew it.
Awesome job Lin! However he's definitely getting exposed, teams are forcing him to go left all the time, and he's getting double teamed denying him the space to get shots off. This game was a classic example of my reasoning a few posts back. Lin has major weakness going to the left, and his turn over rate is way high. definitely needs improving :D
His flaws make his story even better. A flawless athlete would just have us saying "obviously..." but with his flaws, he wills his team to win. So amazing to watch.
When I saw the shot go off today, I remember thinking of this:
the 3 wasn't a bad decision imo. he's shown that he has 20-22 feet range and can shoot jumpers with moderate consistency. even though his form isn't the best he can still knock it down. the 3 point percentage isn't a great measurement of how good someone actually is at knocking down 3's.
they were forcing left and gave him the shot. going to the left might have worked, but they were playing his right pretty hard. reminds me of the duke 3 earlier, if you know the clock has 3 seconds left get out on him, jesus.
On February 15 2012 13:50 Zlasher wrote: The play was probably to drive in and iso one on one, if the defenders on the outside try to come in for a block then he'll kick it out, or he can continue to drive and take a foul.
Also that picture was the spanish national team, pau and marc gasol are in there, among other players, before the 08 olympics. There was a ton of shit involved about that lol
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
well he wasn't fantastic in FG (9-20 is solid but not stellar) but I bet he was still fired up from the previous 3 point play. Good clutch shot.
How is 45% from a guard position not stellar lol? Theres nothing wrong with that at all...
well he did lose the ball a lot and made some really messy drives (leading to no shot) I felt JLins game today wasn't very amazing so maybe that was I was getting at. (not saying 27 points isn't amazing but just the overall feel I guess)
Still insist that the guy is here to stay. Clutch is clutch.
On February 15 2012 14:31 Saeglopur wrote: I give up. I tried to stay off the bandwagon but.....
this Jeremection is here to stay
You...ruined...it...Why!
I'll admit, I wanted to hop off the wagon right before he played minnesota thinking his hot hands will cool down and he was just in the middle of an upswing. Nope! He is consistently producing some very nice numbers. But as mentioned somewhere in this thread his defensive game needs a lot of polishing.
The better question is what happens when Camelo Anthony comes back.
On February 15 2012 14:31 Saeglopur wrote: I give up. I tried to stay off the bandwagon but.....
this Jeremection is here to stay
The better question is what happens when Camelo Anthony comes back.
after the Timberwolves & Raptors game, I honestly think Lin will become more efficient with Melo back in the lineup because of less focus on Lin to run the team and Lin will get more minutes of rest and thus be fresher
his scoring will decrease, but his FG% and assists will go up while his turnovers decrease
I wonder if his dribbling/ball-handling will improve now that he's up against some NBA players, not D-league or teammates during practice. I never watched Nash during his early years, unfortunately, but I know it took him a couple years to evolve into a MVP. I wonder if that will happen with Lin?
Oh, and I don't blame Calderon for playing off and to the left, that would be the expected play. Who would've guessed a three??
The whole Knicks team just looks so much better than before.
Lin is obviously killin it. I think the 3 point ending shot was the correct decision, the only problem obviously being his 3-pt percentage. They knew what he would have liked to do and they knew he was on the clock, taking it in to either draw a foul or dish it out was what they were expecting. I admit that I cringed a bit when he first took the shot, obviously Im glad he proved me wrong.
Shumpert taking Calderon was such a clutch decision. Completely shut him down in the 4th quarter, Shumpert didn't get enough love for that, though I still think it's awesome that Lin said "Shumpert bailed him out" in the post game interview.
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine.
Actually, it depends on the defense as well. If Calderon played him straight up, then no, the 3 would not have been the best opinion. But Calderon basically took away the right and gave him so much room so that shot was fine in that situation.
And yes, Shumpert was actually the one who got them in that situation with the steals so he deserves a lot of credit.
Gotta hop onto the bandwagon and linsert myself into this thread. On a side note, sucks if you're a longtime warriors fan and you think about all the talent that they've traded away.
On February 15 2012 17:23 asLeep wrote: Gotta hop onto the bandwagon and linsert myself into this thread. On a side note, sucks if you're a longtime warriors fan and you think about all the talent that they've traded away.
:| You learn to get used to it, the fact that their positive to negative trade ratio is about 0.1
They throw away draft picks, when they do keep their draft picks they make the shittiest draft picks ever and pass up on some seriously great players. Steph and Monta are probably the only two positives in the past 15 years but they are small guards which are a dime a dozen compared to the bigs that we're always seeking.
Honestly, its a big reason the Warriors are behind the SJ Sharks, SF Giants, SF 49ers, and Cal Bears Football to me...GSW are like 6th or 7th down my list of hometown teams to root for.
Jibba, what do you have against JLin? Every single one of your post has something negative to say about JLin... Why are you still doubting? 6 games in a row buddy!
Haha that was EVEN MORE spectacular!!!! He's got hops, he's got presence...and he thanks his lord and saviour jesus christ all the time lol. He should be best friends with Tebow and they can convert the entire nation together xD
On February 15 2012 18:51 bucckevin wrote: Jibba, what do you have against JLin? Every single one of your post has something negative to say about JLin... Why are you still doubting? 6 games in a row buddy!
I dont think hes is doubting so much as erring on the side of caution. At the moment the kid is a sensation and all credit to him, but theres been lots of players who have achieved performed like he has over periods and faded, the only difference was they didnt have "stories" or "ethnicity" to back their hype.
If you look closer alot of the things he is able to do come about from people underestimating him which is silly hes done it 6 games in a row, hes obviously good enough, strong on the drive, not lightning fast but deceptively enough and hes riding on the biggest confidence of his life which means he can make the clutch play. Additionally the schedule is so heavy teams just dont prepare like they usually can, defense in general is atrocious really. The stats will tell you that dont take my word for it.
He isnt particularly superior in any particular department but hes above average at everything (cept maybe distribution) which is great dont get me wrong. what needs to be seen is how he does with greater exposure to him and teams tighten up in the playoffs (provided and hopefully if the knicks get there) wether he can keep it up. I personally am starting to believe and I would like to but im still a bit iffy considering the quality of opponent it hasnt exactly been \the best of defenses in a below par defensive season. And now the bullseye is on him it makes a massive difference once teams have extensive film to work with.
They had some close losses to the Bulls and Celtics with Melo and Amare and he didnt get anyyyy game time (what like 6 mins?) This was right before LinSanity began. If they hadnt gotten hurt Im sure 90 percent of the people here wouldnt know who he is. But thats life you take your chances when you get them so no foul there either.
Now how he works with them remains to be seen aswell. It may work well, it may not. I dont see him as a past first pg contrary to what people have been saying and he wont get the same touches either. (a view that I am simply echoing at this point) but his ability to drive and the need for help D (against most teams anyway at the moment) also means if his passing is good enough there will be passes to be made. People have short memories though so if he fades he fades and if he doesnt gratz we got a star. The knicks could use a good season.
Funny thing is im pretty much summing whatevers probably already been said. I mean its crazy, if you look at the first few posts in this thread no ones giving him a nickels worth of a chance. Full 180 after 6 games against less than quality opposition is to quick.
edit: fixed the poor choice of words, edit: Also yea the three was the right call, he clearly has the range and he was being shown to much.
On February 15 2012 18:51 bucckevin wrote: Jibba, what do you have against JLin? Every single one of your post has something negative to say about JLin... Why are you still doubting? 6 games in a row buddy!
At the moment the kid is a sensation and all credit to him, but theres been lots of players who have achieved what he has and faded .
On February 15 2012 22:43 Xiphos wrote: I am probably late for the party but who is this guy and what makes him so special? Are all these hype just because of his racial status?
On February 15 2012 22:43 Xiphos wrote: I am probably late for the party but who is this guy and what makes him so special? Are all these hype just because of his racial status?
Or maybe going for 136 combined points in his first 6 nba games while winning all of them.
I know he ANOTHER big game against Toronto, but I watched some of that game and was not really impressed with his play. He seems to drive wildly, and isn't a very good finisher around the rim. It's not exactly difficult to score on Jose Calderon (he also let Jose put up 25)
But I guess numbers don't lie. He must be doing something right.
Apologies if it's already been posted in the thread, but here is a great background article on Lin that was written before he was drafted. My NBA-loving buddy sent it to me. Definitely worth a read — the author seems like a genius now.
On February 16 2012 01:25 Zorkmid wrote: He seems to drive wildly, and isn't a very good finisher around the rim.
Yeah he had some out of control drives to the basket against Toronto and got caught a couple of times. But not a good finisher?? Hell no. He made an unbelievable amount of shots and layups aorund the hoop in his last 6 games. It's actually one of his greatest strengths.
On February 16 2012 01:25 Zorkmid wrote: He seems to drive wildly, and isn't a very good finisher around the rim.
Yeah he had some out of control drives to the basket against Toronto and got caught a couple of times. But not a good finisher?? Hell no. He made an unbelievable amount of shots and layups aorund the hoop in his last 6 games. It's actually one of his greatest strengths.
Fair enough, all I saw was the Toronto game + highlights from the previous games.
On February 16 2012 01:25 Zorkmid wrote: He seems to drive wildly, and isn't a very good finisher around the rim.
Yeah he had some out of control drives to the basket against Toronto and got caught a couple of times. But not a good finisher?? Hell no. He made an unbelievable amount of shots and layups aorund the hoop in his last 6 games. It's actually one of his greatest strengths.
Fair enough, all I saw was the Toronto game + highlights from the previous games.
It depends on the direction he's driving. I wasn't keeping count but I think he was 0/2 from his left last night. Much better, sometimes spectacular, from the right.
I think people are still forgetting he's practically a rookie and they're already trying to compare him to top players in the league. Fact is, he WILL get better, that's how rookies work.
last time i checked, there wasn't a thread dedicated to tim tebow. he was being discussed in the nfl thread, but not a thread for him only.
but props to him nonetheless. his story is just amazing. and he can make such smart team-oriented plays with only 2 years under his belt! As an okc fan, i envy the knicks for having him instead of westbrook. im too greedy lolol
He has some flaws, in particular his ball handling skills and he's gassed at the end. Nevertheless, he is clutch player and he plays better and better as game goes on.
The Lin-Tebow comparison is really annoying. What do they have in common besides the fact that they're both Christians? Tebow was a golden boy since high school: 5 star quarterback recruit that all the best schools wanted, won a nation championship and a heisman trophy, first round pick. Lin didn't get a single scholarship offer from a PAC-10 or any other major school, went undrafted, sent to the D-league and released by 2 teams. Their stories are nothing alike.
On February 16 2012 02:25 red4ce wrote: The Lin-Tebow comparison is really annoying. What do they have in common besides the fact that they're both Christians? Tebow was a golden boy since high school: 5 star quarterback recruit that all the best schools wanted, won a nation championship and a heisman trophy, first round pick. Lin didn't get a single scholarship offer from a PAC-10 or any other major school, went undrafted, sent to the D-league and released by 2 teams. Their stories are nothing alike.
I agree 100% here. Lin is really a royal roader to the extreme, and just came out of nowhere. But what can I say, a lot of naive people out there.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
How is driving and praying for a foul better than taking a wide open 3 pt. shot in a tied game with 4 seconds left? Not to mention that refs will usually swallow their whistles when it really comes down to it in the end game like that anyways
On February 16 2012 02:35 warding wrote: For non-americans who are a bit out of the loop, why is the Tebow guy so popular?
He's a pretty decent quarterback who makes a huge deal of his religion and had some unexpected successes this season, so a lot of conservative christian types look to him as a role model/ inspiration and some even claim that God is on his side.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
How is driving and praying for a foul better than taking a wide open 3 pt. shot in a tied game with 4 seconds left? Not to mention that refs will usually swallow their whistles when it really comes down to it in the end game like that anyways
You don't take 3s when you don't need to, and he's not a good 3pt shooter. A drive at the end is how it's usually done, even with defenders playing off. He even could've stopped at the top of the key and taken a jumper, which is one of his best shots.
Linsanity can't be stopped! One of the best sports stories ever! Plus, he's so humble and not a douche like a lot of NBA players, so it's hard not to cheer for the guy! The guy is the real deal!
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
How is driving and praying for a foul better than taking a wide open 3 pt. shot in a tied game with 4 seconds left? Not to mention that refs will usually swallow their whistles when it really comes down to it in the end game like that anyways
Because that's the norm in the NBA, ppl likes to charges in there initiates contact throws a body at somebody and pray for a foul all the time. I hate that kind of play, where is the skills in that? especially for people who are obviously very skilled like Rose who clearly skill enough and doesn't have to go this path to get cheap free points.
But I can understand what Jibba is saying, the best point guard will always make the best decision , and if he were the at Lin's place he wouldn't trust his own shooting ability(17% lol) to make the shot even if it was the best option available at the time when the defender gave him 3 steps of space. Any competent point guard with confident in their shot would have taken that shot. Lin showed a lot of confident in his shooting, though the game was not on the line for his team, it was clutch but he had nothing to lose by taking it. The worse thing could happened was a tie game and OT.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
How is driving and praying for a foul better than taking a wide open 3 pt. shot in a tied game with 4 seconds left? Not to mention that refs will usually swallow their whistles when it really comes down to it in the end game like that anyways
You don't take 3s when you don't need to, and he's not a good 3pt shooter. A drive at the end is how it's usually done, even with defenders playing off. He even could've stopped at the top of the key and taken a jumper, which is one of his best shots.
It's because his defender stepped back and gave him a really good look at it. Even if you're 17%, when you get a good look it's much higher than that. He was probably thinking about running in and taking a shorter one, but if you watch his defender steps off him and gives him space expecting him to drive in.
and the fact that he only actually learns to throw the ball when the game is about to end, which is a big deal because that makes you win games no one thought you would win.
During the raptor game, I saw one guy from the raptors i think he was name johnson something block stoudemire like 4 times in one play. Is there something wrong with Stoudemire? It seems like he's knee is not allowing him to explode like he used to in pheonix any more.
On February 16 2012 02:25 red4ce wrote: The Lin-Tebow comparison is really annoying. What do they have in common besides the fact that they're both Christians? Tebow was a golden boy since high school: 5 star quarterback recruit that all the best schools wanted, won a nation championship and a heisman trophy, first round pick. Lin didn't get a single scholarship offer from a PAC-10 or any other major school, went undrafted, sent to the D-league and released by 2 teams. Their stories are nothing alike.
I agree 100% here. Lin is really a royal roader to the extreme, and just came out of nowhere. But what can I say, a lot of naive people out there.
When Tebow joined the league most experts said "he's not good enough, he'll never be a successful QB". When Lin join the league he was basically told "you're not good enough, you'll not make it in the NBA".
When Tebow started to win, the experts said "there's no reason for him to be winning, it's luck, it can't last". When Lin started to win, the experts said "there's no reason for him to be winning like this, it's a fluke, it can't last".
Then both of them kept winning.
Then people drew a parallel between them.
Where I've heard the stories split is that some people, looking at the stats, think there's a chance that Lin may be able to maintain this production long-term. Meanwhile, most 'experts' think that Tebow's run of luck is likely over and he can't maintain the winning he was doing.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
How is driving and praying for a foul better than taking a wide open 3 pt. shot in a tied game with 4 seconds left? Not to mention that refs will usually swallow their whistles when it really comes down to it in the end game like that anyways
You don't take 3s when you don't need to, and he's not a good 3pt shooter. A drive at the end is how it's usually done, even with defenders playing off. He even could've stopped at the top of the key and taken a jumper, which is one of his best shots.
To be honest, we don't know how good of a shooter he is in this situation. he's won games like this before, that's for sure. Obviously this was not a high-percentage shot under regular circumstances, but when I watch him play I can help but think he adjusts momentarily and makes very rational decisions. He obviously lacks flare and smoothness, and it will probably never develop to the extent of one of the best in the game, but he utilizes his own unique skillset to the max. You notice how he sometimes stops in the midst of driving and kind of looks at the opponent and does something interesting? What if he actually calculated what was going on and consciously decided this was the best thing to do given the leeway to shoot 3? I mean he could've just though "okay this is my time to shine god help me" and blindly execute. But somehow it didn't feel that way.
I'm sure he'll learn a lot, he seems to progress. He definitely got some IQ that's one thing you can't take away.
I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
It's pretty much the same, besides kneeling. He does say "thanks to my lord and savior jesus christ" right after scoring a game winner while being interviewed, this kind of constitutes shoving. I have to hear it if I'm watching the game, I don't care if he does it off the premises or w/e.
On February 15 2012 12:53 buickskylark wrote: Blah. He only made that 3 because he's Asian.
He only took that three because he's inexperienced. It was a pretty bad decision at the end of the game. Hopefully D'Antoni points it out, but I don't have much faith in his coaching.
Actually he got the okay from D'antoni to ISO.
and check this out:
mcten Dave McMenamin The Lakers' players lounge just erupted when Lin hit that big 3. World Peace emerged and ran through the locker room yelling 'Linsanity!!'
The iso was fine. Taking a three at the end of a tied game when your strength is driving to the basket isn't fine. Taking a three when you're a 17% 3pt shooter at the end of a tied game isn't fine. It's awesome, but it's the kind of thing that makes Larry Brown roll over in his grave.
He doesn't need to get past him. He just needs some momentum and a foul. I think he'll learn to do it next time it comes up.
How is driving and praying for a foul better than taking a wide open 3 pt. shot in a tied game with 4 seconds left? Not to mention that refs will usually swallow their whistles when it really comes down to it in the end game like that anyways
You don't take 3s when you don't need to, and he's not a good 3pt shooter. A drive at the end is how it's usually done, even with defenders playing off. He even could've stopped at the top of the key and taken a jumper, which is one of his best shots.
To be fair, its raptors home court + end of game. He's pretty much guaranteed not to get that foul call if he drives. Obviously I prefer that he takes a mid range (statistically his best shot so far), but you gotta take what the defense gives you.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Freedom of speech works both ways. He's not trying to convert you, he's just giving his personal thoughts on an issue when asked. Stop being a douchebag, he's not "preaching to the public".
I really hate it when people think it's right to censor other people's thoughts.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
you clearly haven't seen his twitter....
Yeah, because an athlete's PERSONAL TWITTER is the same as going door-to-door with a Bible in hand...
Come the fuck on, if you're on HIS twitter and you think he's "shoving it on you" you've got a stick in your ass.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
you clearly haven't seen his twitter....
i dont think its that bad. nothing close to tebow, the jesus picture on his twitter is good humored
On February 16 2012 02:38 billy5000 wrote: they're both considered underdogs in their respective professional setting. it's that simple. if you start digressing, any comparison will be futile..
there is no parallel besides them both being ultra religious, and it's the network talking heads spouting this shit and a few dummies gobbling it up.
Tebow was a first round draft pick, even if it was a highly questionable selection, and was a two time champion at a top ranked SEC school. Lin was undrafted, and played his ball at a school that doesn't even give sports scholarships.
Tebow was the most sought after QB coming out of high school. Lin couldn't even get a chat with a number of coaches, and in the best situations, was getting a chance to walk on at various teams.
Tebow was statistically garbage all season at his intended position, and only received the recognition he did because his D was fantastic for a majority of the season, which put him in position to lead a couple game winning drives with clutch plays. Lin has played good if not great in every game, for a vast majority of the time he has been on the court. Win records are a really nebulous stat in sports, but both are winners using that. The difference tebow was winning due to circumstances (D playing great, lots of turnovers, whatever) whereas the Knicks are on a six game streak because he has kicked ass for 35 min a night.
In almost all his games Tebow played terribly up until the closing minutes of the fourth quarter. Lin, even with the ridiculously small sample size he has been given (aside: six games really is shit and it is totally fair to ask if he can keep it up), has pretty much played well all game long in most situations. And that is without the help of the big two for the most part.
Lin is a legit underdog in every sense of the word. Tebow is an overrated player who is doing his best to shed that label and prove that he can play. You can't possibly do what he's done and been an underdog.
Jeremy Lin plays in New York - the media capital of the world. He gets asked about his religion I'd bet over 100 times a day because they are trying to sell his image. What do you want the guy to do? He's super excited to be getting some recognition for breaking through. Let him do his thing.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Freedom of speech works both ways. He's not trying to convert you, he's just giving his personal thoughts on an issue when asked. Stop being a douchebag, he's not "preaching to the public".
I really hate it when people think it's right to censor other people's thoughts.
He's playing sports, not preaching. If he is asked about his beliefs it's cool, I don't have anything against religion or people that believe. I just think it's excessive when he randomly talks about it and if every athlete starts thanking his respective deity for every successful step he makes it will turn into a clusterfuck. I'm not being a douchebag to Lin, I'm actually on a bandwagon since game 2 and I like everything about this kid. Almost everything.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
you clearly haven't seen his twitter....
Yeah, because an athlete's PERSONAL TWITTER is the same as going door-to-door with a Bible in hand...
Come the fuck on, if you're on HIS twitter and you think he's "shoving it on you" you've got a stick in your ass.
personal twitter? you think a twitter is a diary or just personal conversations? I don't think you understand what twitter is exactly.
He's not as zealous or as open as tebow, but he's definitely not typical when it comes to his religion.
On February 16 2012 06:06 Ace wrote: Jeremy Lin plays in New York - the media capital of the world. He gets asked about his religion I'd bet over 100 times a day because they are trying to sell his image. What do you want the guy to do? He's super excited to be getting some recognition for breaking through. Let him do his thing.
I agree and I'm just expressing opinion here, I was fine with it until he thanked "lord savior jesus christ" on the court, which ticked me off. I don't know why, maybe I am a douchebag.
A much better football comparison would be Victor Cruz than Tebow. Undrafted free agent who was close to being cut until he got his shot and became a star WR. The only comparison to Tebow is the social impact, everyone is talking about Lin the same way everyone was talking about Tebow (even if it was in an ironic context for a lot of people)
Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
It is no coincidence that we fail to remember Lebron’s game winning/game tying shots. His shots do not offer that same level artistry or finesse, and lack that “wow” factor that comes natural to Kobe Bryant. In fact, 4 out 5 of Lebron’s game winning/game tying shots were unmemorable layups or relatively easy baskets within close range, and many of them exemplified Lebron as a bull in a china shop who relies upon brut force, power and physical strength to get easy baskets. Even though his playoff game winning/game tying shot attempts have been more successful than Kobe’s, Lebron gets penalized for his style. In fact, it can be argued that Kobe’s misses are far more enjoyable to watch than Lebron’s makes, and that is why Kobe Bryant is largely the beneficiary of perception versus reality.
Jose Calderon on or off makes little difference because he's a poor, slow defender and I think Lin could find his shot either way. If you want a real heads up play (which honestly I only expect the most studious/experienced players like Kobe to know), the Raptors are a foul prone team and you have a very good chance that one of those bigs will foul you. How good? The Raptors have committed 718 fouls this season, the most of any team. The Knicks are second, with 636 fouls. That is huge. And everyone who knows Amir knows he loves to go for stupid blocks.
It's not a major knock that he took it because he's young and was in the moment, but do not pretend that it was the optimal decision. 7 times out of 10 when a player "feels it" like that, they're going to miss the shot. That's why Lebron and Wade and others are so good about driving at the end. Lin has moxy and an awesome attitude and will learn it, so it's not about him. It's about the bandwagon NBA fans who think it was a brilliant play. It was a brilliant outcome.
There's a few small similarities between Lin and Tebow's story, but it's not like Lin is proselytizing out there. I think everything he's said to the media so far has been laudable. Got no problems with his faith. It's a disservice to compare him to Tebow though. Tebow Time was hilarious, but most of their success was carried by Von Miller and the guys on the other side of the ball. Lin doesn't have that convenience, he's the one making it work.
On February 16 2012 06:20 floor exercise wrote: A much better football comparison would be Victor Cruz than Tebow. Undrafted free agent who was close to being cut until he got his shot and became a star WR. The only comparison to Tebow is the social impact, everyone is talking about Lin the same way everyone was talking about Tebow (even if it was in an ironic context for a lot of people)
how do bigs even play good defense without fouling when the little guys initiate contacts and runs into them with a running start and flops as soon as contacts are make. I see many times the big guy didn't even jump, all he did was stood there have both hands in the air and got call for a foul. WTF were they suppose to do? get out of the way and let them lay it up? pull the chair under them so the expected contact wasn't there and the little guy loses balance and travels?
Sometimes they just get screwed with officiating, but if their feet are outside the circle and they're standing still with arms up, that's the best they can do. They make it a difficult shot and hopefully a teammate gets a block or the player misses. Unfortunately for big men, most don't do that and foolishly leave their feet to block it themselves or the refs just bail the offensive player out. The athletic ones can get their body out of the way and go for the block, but that's only the good ones.
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
On February 16 2012 05:37 ecstatica wrote: I don't mind what Lin is doing in terms of preaching to the public, but he really should keep more of it to himself. Somehow other ballers refrain from expressing their views on religion/politics/w.e else for the most part. Some of them are atheists, some are Muslims. Do we really want everything to be out there? I'd want some kind of regulation to exist, especially while they rep their sports organizations.
Tell me when he has ever preached in public, he isn't Tebow. He only brings it up when he is asked about it. He is not an evangelist he is just deeply religious and gives thanks where he feels they are due but he doesn't go out of his way to shove it into you.
On February 16 2012 09:13 Canucklehead wrote: I like Darren Rovell's take on the Lin haters.
I don't even think Lin is thinking about money. Right now, he is focused on how to get Knicks to win more. If I was him and cared about money, I wouldn't complain about the 9k, because I know next season, it's gonna be something like 20 million a year.
On February 16 2012 09:27 Zlasher wrote: Yeah who else finds getting paid around 30-50k a week a small salary
roflsports
lol yea. reminds me of T.O/chad johnson during their prime getting fined 5-20k a td celebration but they just kept doing it like it was a 5 dollar donation. must be nice!
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
Biggest problem I see with Lin is his turnovers. He's getting really high production while also really high TO #s, Russel Westbrook-like (except RW doesn't get as many assists..) Most of his TOs come from getting mucked in the lane while driving or bad passing towards the end of the game. If he can fix that part of his game, he could really become a Steve Nash PG
Looks like he won't get 20 tonight because 4th qtr will be garbage time, but the linsanity train continues to roll! Linning streak up to 7 now! Turnovers are still a concern, but hopefully he will bring those down over time. Was looking so good too with only 1 turnover in first half, then bam 5 in the 3rd qtr!
part of linsanity really has been the amazing show and things that have happened. it's like mma. Fitch can go undefeated but no one is going to pay money to see him fight.
On February 16 2012 11:39 AntiGrav1ty wrote: So our "mediocre" passer has 13 assists in 26 minutes. Doubters, what's next on the list?
TO numbers I'd guess. But the guy is in his god damn 2nd year, and 1st year actually playing regularly and not 3rd string on the bench. Too many expectations.
On February 16 2012 01:39 JWD wrote: Apologies if it's already been posted in the thread, but here is a great background article on Lin that was written before he was drafted. My NBA-loving buddy sent it to me. Definitely worth a read — the author seems like a genius now.
On February 16 2012 11:39 AntiGrav1ty wrote: So our "mediocre" passer has 13 assists in 26 minutes. Doubters, what's next on the list?
I don't know if there are any legitimate doubters out there anymore. Kid has shown he knows his role and can play it well. Don't think you'll see him running isos against the likes of lebron or kobe, but I don't think he should ever have to.
how was he abysmal? This was the most fundamentally perfect game as a pg for lin, minus the TOs of course. He's not suppose to be dropping 20+ a night. That's not his role.
On February 16 2012 11:52 ecstatica wrote: I thought he was abysmal today outside of few first half dishes. Really hope he wont be dropping off performance wise any time soon.
Lets hope for some more abysmal performances then oO
On February 16 2012 11:54 buickskylark wrote: how was he abysmal? This was the most fundamentally perfect game as a pg for lin, minus the TOs of course. He's not suppose to be dropping 20+ a night. That's not his role.
They were walking around scoring at will. Given he was facing one of the shittiest teams in the league and looked lost throughout 3rd quarter i would just cross fingers and slow down with bandwagoning. Kid looked weak. Hopefully tired/unimportant easy game.
On February 16 2012 11:54 buickskylark wrote: how was he abysmal? This was the most fundamentally perfect game as a pg for lin, minus the TOs of course. He's not suppose to be dropping 20+ a night. That's not his role.
They were walking around scoring at will. Given he was facing one of the shittiest teams in the league and looked lost throughout 3rd quarter i would just cross fingers and slow down with bandwagoning. Kid looked weak. Hopefully tired/unimportant easy game.
why would you assume i'm a bandwagoner? I've known and supported Lin before he even graduated from Harvard. Not that there's anything wrong with bandwaggoners as I'm sure the majority of those are of people who appreciate his underdog story.
On February 16 2012 11:54 buickskylark wrote: how was he abysmal? This was the most fundamentally perfect game as a pg for lin, minus the TOs of course. He's not suppose to be dropping 20+ a night. That's not his role.
They were walking around scoring at will. Given he was facing one of the shittiest teams in the league and looked lost throughout 3rd quarter i would just cross fingers and slow down with bandwagoning. Kid looked weak. Hopefully tired/unimportant easy game.
Lol, haters are grasping at straws now. This was one of his best games and he only didn't get 20 points again cause it was garbage time, so he didn't play the 4th qtr. Too funny what haters will come up with these days to try to belittle his performances. MVP!! MVP! MVP!!
On February 16 2012 11:54 buickskylark wrote: how was he abysmal? This was the most fundamentally perfect game as a pg for lin, minus the TOs of course. He's not suppose to be dropping 20+ a night. That's not his role.
This is the guy who wants to censor him for shoving Jesus down your throat. Take his opinions regarding Lin and burn them. There's obviously a lot of hate-bias going on there.
I like Lin. I watch Knicks games now which I was careless for prior to Lin. I offered my own critisism on his preaching, then he plays mediocre AT BEST and I cant even mention it?
I know yaall been fans and first twitter friends of his prior to Harvard, not disputing your fandom. Just expressing own view.
wah melo don't play defense neither? how's NY ganna win then if he doesn't play d. they won 7 in a row cause they managed to shut ppl down in the 4th quarter.
On February 16 2012 02:38 billy5000 wrote: they're both considered underdogs in their respective professional setting. it's that simple. if you start digressing, any comparison will be futile..
there is no parallel besides them both being ultra religious, and it's the network talking heads spouting this shit and a few dummies gobbling it up.
Tebow was a first round draft pick, even if it was a highly questionable selection, and was a two time champion at a top ranked SEC school. Lin was undrafted, and played his ball at a school that doesn't even give sports scholarships.
Tebow was the most sought after QB coming out of high school. Lin couldn't even get a chat with a number of coaches, and in the best situations, was getting a chance to walk on at various teams.
Tebow was statistically garbage all season at his intended position, and only received the recognition he did because his D was fantastic for a majority of the season, which put him in position to lead a couple game winning drives with clutch plays. Lin has played good if not great in every game, for a vast majority of the time he has been on the court. Win records are a really nebulous stat in sports, but both are winners using that. The difference tebow was winning due to circumstances (D playing great, lots of turnovers, whatever) whereas the Knicks are on a six game streak because he has kicked ass for 35 min a night.
In almost all his games Tebow played terribly up until the closing minutes of the fourth quarter. Lin, even with the ridiculously small sample size he has been given (aside: six games really is shit and it is totally fair to ask if he can keep it up), has pretty much played well all game long in most situations. And that is without the help of the big two for the most part.
Lin is a legit underdog in every sense of the word. Tebow is an overrated player who is doing his best to shed that label and prove that he can play. You can't possibly do what he's done and been an underdog.
On February 16 2012 12:09 ecstatica wrote: Damn, you guys are crazy...
I like Lin. I watch Knicks games now which I was careless for prior to Lin. I offered my own critisism on his preaching, then he plays mediocre AT BEST and I cant even mention it?
I know yaall been fans and first twitter friends of his prior to Harvard, not disputing your fandom. Just expressing own view.
he's not preaching. it's not really much different from thanking your friends and family when he thanks God. just because you don't believe in God and he mentions God doesn't mean he's preaching to you.
also if his performance today was medicore at BEST then what was he supposed to do today besides lower TO's to have a good game? 20 points and 20 assists and 10 rebounds and 80% FG? loll
Obviously needs 5 more assists. Triple double or GTFO!
I think people have gone from having really low expectations to WAY TOO HIGH. So he'll have great games, but people are expecting 38 points every game now haha
On February 16 2012 12:09 ecstatica wrote: Damn, you guys are crazy...
I like Lin. I watch Knicks games now which I was careless for prior to Lin. I offered my own critisism on his preaching, then he plays mediocre AT BEST and I cant even mention it?
I know yaall been fans and first twitter friends of his prior to Harvard, not disputing your fandom. Just expressing own view.
he's not preaching. it's not really much different from thanking your friends and family when he thanks God. just because you don't believe in God and he mentions God doesn't mean he's preaching to you.
also if his performance today was medicore at BEST then what was he supposed to do today besides lower TO's to have a good game? 20 points and 20 assists and 10 rebounds and 80% FG? loll
Obviously needs 5 more assists. Triple double or GTFO!
I think people have gone from having really low expectations to WAY TOO HIGH. So he'll have great games, but people are expecting 38 points every game now haha
he needs to play better teams... passed 7 games were vs bottom seed teams minus lakers. im a fan tho.
psyched im going to the game friday.. went to one earlier in the year before linsanity hit... hopefully the hornets put up a fight on friday.. tickets for mavs on sunday were too ridiculous in price T.T
Lol this thread has blown up. Don't really have much to say that hasn't been said before, except that I'm a fan, and I hope he continues his run. Needs to work on his D, but so does the whole knicks team.
On February 16 2012 15:26 PHILtheTANK wrote: Lol this thread has blown up. Don't really have much to say that hasn't been said before, except that I'm a fan, and I hope he continues his run. Needs to work on his D, but so does the whole knicks team.
It's a problem because the knicks don't have a backup point guard. If Lin gets into foul trouble, they're screwed. I think that affects his defence a bit.
Next few weeks will be telling. Dallas and Miami in the next week. Good defenses often shut down young players particularly hard, so I won't expect him to play as magnificently.
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
On February 16 2012 15:25 buickskylark wrote: so..duhon was a bench warmer that got no minutes than exploded against 7 straight teams?
no, but Duhon was defnitely not starter material before he started putting up some high assist numbers with the Knicks. Lin is good - but let's not overhype him too much. There have been players that have had stretches or even season long hot streaks and never got it going again. Give the kid some time to mature.
On February 16 2012 15:41 Jerubaal wrote: Next few weeks will be telling. Dallas and Miami in the next week. Good defenses often shut down young players particularly hard, so I won't expect him to play as magnificently.
What a time it is to be a Knicks scalper. The average ticket price was about 300 bucks, highest ticket was 3300 bucks. Imagine what the mavs game is going to fetch.
I find it hilarious and awesome how players can get hyped for other players instead of being jealous or competitive. Just don't see it that often without it being some sort of pandering to the media by saying shit like "yeah, he's a good player" in interviews.
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
I'm not worried about the turnovers. His "league-leading" TOs per game has a lot of it has to do with how many P&R plays he does and the high number of minutes he has had. His Turnover % (percent of times he turns it over per play) is high, but not exceptionally high. Ricky Rubio and Steve Nash have a higher TO%
On February 17 2012 06:06 Zlasher wrote: Just because something is successful doesn't mean its the best move to make....
Just because something is successful but risky doesn't mean it was the wrong move to make. The criticism doesn't hold water unless Lin makes it a habit, and he's only played seven games so we don't know if it is a habit.
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
How is there even a debate about this?? Game tied, you have the last possession. Jibba is absolutely right in this instance. He absolutely buried that shot, but praising that as the right move because it worked is like yanking a pot out from under a dude in poker by winning with a 2-10 vs AA and not recognizing how lucky it was.
Would have been a much more sure thing to drive there, even if he nailed that. Run that same scenario over 100 times, and he'd get at least 1 or 2 from a foul or fg way more often than he would pulling up for a 3.
On February 17 2012 06:24 domovoi wrote: I'm not worried about the turnovers. His "league-leading" TOs per game has a lot of it has to do with how many P&R plays he does and the high number of minutes he has had. His Turnover % (percent of times he turns it over per play) is high, but not exceptionally high. Ricky Rubio and Steve Nash have a higher TO%
TOs is the last thing that should bother anyone, at least atm. This is a rookie playing with the guys hes never played with before. It could be alarming but unless he keeps it up after 15-20 games I would just disregard this
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
How is there even a debate about this?? Game tied, you have the last possession. Jibba is absolutely right in this instance. He absolutely buried that shot, but praising that as the right move because it worked is like yanking a pot out from under a dude in poker by winning with a 2-10 vs AA and not recognizing how lucky it was.
Would have been a much more sure thing to drive there, even if he nailed that. Run that same scenario over 100 times, and he'd get at least 1 or 2 from a foul or fg way more often than he would pulling up for a 3.
There's a strategic effect at play however. Since taking the shot is not a strictly dominated strategy, and since the defender knew this, there was a mixed strategy at play. The mixed strategy nash equilibrium always assigns an equal payoff to each option. And since taking the shot was not strictly dominated, Lin should've played it with a nonzero probability.
Again, that's not saying he should do it every time, but he should not drive every time either. Unpredictability is key to success in this type of game.
To model this we can set up a 2x2 zero-sum game matrix for point expectation where Lin is the column player and his defender is the row player:
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
How is there even a debate about this?? Game tied, you have the last possession. Jibba is absolutely right in this instance. He absolutely buried that shot, but praising that as the right move because it worked is like yanking a pot out from under a dude in poker by winning with a 2-10 vs AA and not recognizing how lucky it was.
Would have been a much more sure thing to drive there, even if he nailed that. Run that same scenario over 100 times, and he'd get at least 1 or 2 from a foul or fg way more often than he would pulling up for a 3.
I think it's arguable; it's certainly not as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. The thing about getting fouled is that it would give Toronto more time to tie or win the game, especially if he misses a FT (almost 50% chance of that happening assuming 75% FT%). A 3 at the near last second basically puts the game away.
Also, refs are generally reluctant to call that foul unless it's really obvious.
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
How is there even a debate about this?? Game tied, you have the last possession. Jibba is absolutely right in this instance. He absolutely buried that shot, but praising that as the right move because it worked is like yanking a pot out from under a dude in poker by winning with a 2-10 vs AA and not recognizing how lucky it was.
Would have been a much more sure thing to drive there, even if he nailed that. Run that same scenario over 100 times, and he'd get at least 1 or 2 from a foul or fg way more often than he would pulling up for a 3.
I think it's arguable; it's certainly not as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. The thing about getting fouled is that it would give Toronto more time to tie or win the game, especially if he misses a FT (almost 50% chance of that happening assuming 75% FT%). A 3 at the near last second basically puts the game away.
Also, refs are generally reluctant to call that foul unless it's really obvious.
I think it's arguable even without the 3 vs. 1 or 2. See my post above yours taking variance into account and assuming that only a game win has payoff of 1 and other outcomes have payoff 0 with respect to Lin/Knicks.
It doesn't really matter if it's as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. Both games share the property that you should bet on a 2-10 sometimes (or in mathspeak, call with nonzero probability). That somebody plays a 2-10 against an AA doesn't mean it was the wrong decision in a game of imperfect information, since you will have a strictly losing expectation in the game as a whole if you never play on a 2-10.
Remember guys, Lin has a degree in economics at Harvard, so it is safe to assume he studied and fairly safe to assume that he thoroughly understands this kind of shit. It's not ex-post rationalization I'm making up here, but I'll be willing to bet he has actively considered these situations before he made the call based on this analysis as opposed to a panic move.
What it comes down to is whether the probability of the shot landing, given a good look, is better than the probability of scoring off a drive to the bad hand on a weak iso. As long as this is the case, he should always sometimes take the shot. (always sometimes meaning, he should always consider taking the shot with nonzero probability :p)
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
How is there even a debate about this?? Game tied, you have the last possession. Jibba is absolutely right in this instance. He absolutely buried that shot, but praising that as the right move because it worked is like yanking a pot out from under a dude in poker by winning with a 2-10 vs AA and not recognizing how lucky it was.
Would have been a much more sure thing to drive there, even if he nailed that. Run that same scenario over 100 times, and he'd get at least 1 or 2 from a foul or fg way more often than he would pulling up for a 3.
I think it's arguable; it's certainly not as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. The thing about getting fouled is that it would give Toronto more time to tie or win the game, especially if he misses a FT (almost 50% chance of that happening assuming 75% FT%). A 3 at the near last second basically puts the game away.
Also, refs are generally reluctant to call that foul unless it's really obvious.
I think it's arguable even without the 3 vs. 1 or 2. See my post above yours taking variance into account and assuming that only a game win has payoff of 1 and other outcomes have payoff 0 with respect to Lin/Knicks.
It doesn't really matter if it's as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. Both games share the property that you should bet on a 2-10 sometimes (or in mathspeak, call with nonzero probability). That somebody plays a 2-10 against an AA doesn't mean it was the wrong decision in a game of imperfect information, since you will have a strictly losing expectation in the game as a whole if you never play on a 2-10.
Remember guys, Lin has a degree in economics at Harvard, so it is safe to assume he studied and fairly safe to assume that he thoroughly understands this kind of shit. It's not ex-post rationalization I'm making up here, but I'll be willing to bet he has actively considered these situations before he made the call based on this analysis as opposed to a panic move.
Yes, you make a good point, though I'd say it's even arguable without the game theory considerations.
On February 16 2012 06:22 Jibba wrote: Let me put it this way - I wouldn't want Kobe or Lebron or Durant taking that shot either. The whole "clutch"/"fearless" mythos in the NBA has been taken to epic proportions by Kobe and ESPN, and that 3 - no matter how much he was "feeling" it - was simply not his best option. There's pages devoted to "clutch" in the other threads.
I don't see how this was a bad shot at all. Calderon sagged off a lot to prevent the drive. Also he tried to Force Lin to his left which is considerably weaker. If goes for the drive o drive and does get denied he has to take a fadeaway jumper or some shot off the dribble which is considerably harder than a wide open 3. Or he risks a turnover be cause he got caught a couple of times in that game already and the Raptors help defense was pretty good in that game. The knicks got blocked a lot around the rim.
So his options are:
Drive to the left with possibility of not getting to the rim at all, getting denied at the rim by help defense, getting trapped by a double team, or passing it out with a risk for a turnover to some mediocre shooters. (Fields, Shumpert, Chandler and Amare are not known for clutch 3s). A lot of ifs
Or
He takes an open 3
You are criticizin Lins accomplishments in every single post you make but this one is just not valid.
No, his primary option is going to the right because Calderon can't do anything on his own. He's likely getting the foul, but if he doesn't like the position of the interior defenders, he drives, steps back and shoots a regular jumpshot from the top of the key, which is one of his most common moves. When you have room, you get closer to the basket. This is just fundamentals. If it were in the middle of the game and Hubie Brown was casting, he'd go on a rant about it.
People are being hysterical and emotional.
Yo man I been checking what my fans have to say about me in this thread and I gotta say man what you got against me huh? I don't see you getting all anal about analysing Flash games and acting like some kind of arrogant devil's advocate armchair critic when the results speak for themselves. Why don't you put up some YouTube videos of your shots huh what you got nigga what you got?
User was banned for this post.
jibba u sound ridiculous, if ure given enough room u go for the shot. caulderon was obviously closing in for the drive. driving in is what lin probably wanted to do, but seeing as his opp. is giving him an open look for 3 he took it, easy decision. you dont stop to think about ur percentage especially when its closing seconds to the quarter
edit: how can anyone be critical about something that happened SUCCESSFULLY? results speak for themselves
How is there even a debate about this?? Game tied, you have the last possession. Jibba is absolutely right in this instance. He absolutely buried that shot, but praising that as the right move because it worked is like yanking a pot out from under a dude in poker by winning with a 2-10 vs AA and not recognizing how lucky it was.
Would have been a much more sure thing to drive there, even if he nailed that. Run that same scenario over 100 times, and he'd get at least 1 or 2 from a foul or fg way more often than he would pulling up for a 3.
I think it's arguable; it's certainly not as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. The thing about getting fouled is that it would give Toronto more time to tie or win the game, especially if he misses a FT (almost 50% chance of that happening assuming 75% FT%). A 3 at the near last second basically puts the game away.
Also, refs are generally reluctant to call that foul unless it's really obvious.
I think it's arguable even without the 3 vs. 1 or 2. See my post above yours taking variance into account and assuming that only a game win has payoff of 1 and other outcomes have payoff 0 with respect to Lin/Knicks.
It doesn't really matter if it's as extreme as 2-10 vs. AA. Both games share the property that you should bet on a 2-10 sometimes (or in mathspeak, call with nonzero probability). That somebody plays a 2-10 against an AA doesn't mean it was the wrong decision in a game of imperfect information, since you will have a strictly losing expectation in the game as a whole if you never play on a 2-10.
Remember guys, Lin has a degree in economics at Harvard, so it is safe to assume he studied and fairly safe to assume that he thoroughly understands this kind of shit. It's not ex-post rationalization I'm making up here, but I'll be willing to bet he has actively considered these situations before he made the call based on this analysis as opposed to a panic move.
Yes, you make a good point, though I'd say it's even arguable without the game theory considerations.
Actually, I think the "even" applies to my statement as opposed to yours. It's more like "even ignoring the additional benefit of sinking a 3, it's still rationalizable." My statement is actually a stronger statement than yours since it has a weaker premise, hehehe.
the three pointer was a good shot. all 5 players were expecting a drive, calderon would've forced him to go to the left and was heavily guarding it. the four other players would've immediately came into the lane to stop it.
lin with confidence sky high shot the wide open practice-like three pointer. any nba guard will make 3 pointers 9/10 times in practice, it's just about confidence. hell, just look at rondo during the three point challenge. lots of confidence and not too much pressure since it's tied made for a high percentage shot. no need for any fancy math.
You guys honestly think someone with the personality of Lin, a devout christian, doesn't drink, comes from a small town and has a small time background, would date Kim Kardashian who got married twice and one lasted less than like 3 months, followed by her having a sex tape out, and is an utter socialite?
On February 17 2012 08:20 Zlasher wrote: You guys honestly think someone with the personality of Lin, a devout christian, doesn't drink, comes from a small town and has a small time background, would date Kim Kardashian who got married twice and one lasted less than like 3 months, followed by her having a sex tape out, and is an utter socialite?
Stop reading tabloids lol
jeremy lin is obv trying to save her from impending doom
Just because something is the best move doesn't necessarily mean its going to be successful.move either. In the end its about the W, so it doesn't matter if someone wins on 2-10 vs AA. If they're a fluke then they'll be exposed when you let time play its course.
Q: This just hit me: If Stern doesn't veto the Lakers/Rockets/Hornets trade Jeremy Lin would still be a Rocket. Houston couldn't keep Lin because they already had 3 PG's with fully guaranteed contracts (Lowry, Dragic, Flynn). If the trade is allowed to go through, Lin would have been able to take Dragic's spot on the roster. Instead Stern vetoes the trade, and now Lin is singlehandedly saving the Knicks season, and keeping them out of the lottery. Oh ya, Houston owns New York's first rounder (top 5 protected). Is it possible Stern knew all this, and this was his actual reason for vetoing the trade? Also is this Stern's way of getting back at Houston for booing him after Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Let's be honest, the man isn't above grudges. — Adam Spolane, Houston
SG: I love when Daryl Morey writes me with the alias "Adam Spolane." And yeah, you're right — if the Gasol trade goes through and Houston follows that up by signing Nene (something the Rockets believe would have happened, even if the rest of the league is dubious), here's Houston's team right now: Kyle Lowry, Courtney Lee, Chandler Parsons, Nene and Pau Gasol (starters); Jeremy Lin, Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Jordan Hill, Chase Budinger, Free Agent 2-Guard to Be Named (bench). Pretty interesting. Daryl will now light himself on fire.
(PS: Did you notice Houston was awarded the 2013 NBA All-Star Game last week? My buddy House is convinced that was Stern's way of apologizing for screwing the Rockets over. It's like Warden Norton letting Andy Dufresne shine his shoes right after he killed Andy's buddy who could have testified that Andy was innocent, and throwing Andy in the hole for two months for calling him "obtuse." Sorry about what happened, Houston — here, shine my shoes with the 2013 All-Star Game!)
Q: This just hit me: If Stern doesn't veto the Lakers/Rockets/Hornets trade Jeremy Lin would still be a Rocket. Houston couldn't keep Lin because they already had 3 PG's with fully guaranteed contracts (Lowry, Dragic, Flynn). If the trade is allowed to go through, Lin would have been able to take Dragic's spot on the roster. Instead Stern vetoes the trade, and now Lin is singlehandedly saving the Knicks season, and keeping them out of the lottery. Oh ya, Houston owns New York's first rounder (top 5 protected). Is it possible Stern knew all this, and this was his actual reason for vetoing the trade? Also is this Stern's way of getting back at Houston for booing him after Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Let's be honest, the man isn't above grudges. — Adam Spolane, Houston
SG: I love when Daryl Morey writes me with the alias "Adam Spolane." And yeah, you're right — if the Gasol trade goes through and Houston follows that up by signing Nene (something the Rockets believe would have happened, even if the rest of the league is dubious), here's Houston's team right now: Kyle Lowry, Courtney Lee, Chandler Parsons, Nene and Pau Gasol (starters); Jeremy Lin, Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Jordan Hill, Chase Budinger, Free Agent 2-Guard to Be Named (bench). Pretty interesting. Daryl will now light himself on fire.
(PS: Did you notice Houston was awarded the 2013 NBA All-Star Game last week? My buddy House is convinced that was Stern's way of apologizing for screwing the Rockets over. It's like Warden Norton letting Andy Dufresne shine his shoes right after he killed Andy's buddy who could have testified that Andy was innocent, and throwing Andy in the hole for two months for calling him "obtuse." Sorry about what happened, Houston — here, shine my shoes with the 2013 All-Star Game!)
hahah bill simmons is actually one writer that i respect. He's good!
Q: This just hit me: If Stern doesn't veto the Lakers/Rockets/Hornets trade Jeremy Lin would still be a Rocket. Houston couldn't keep Lin because they already had 3 PG's with fully guaranteed contracts (Lowry, Dragic, Flynn). If the trade is allowed to go through, Lin would have been able to take Dragic's spot on the roster. Instead Stern vetoes the trade, and now Lin is singlehandedly saving the Knicks season, and keeping them out of the lottery. Oh ya, Houston owns New York's first rounder (top 5 protected). Is it possible Stern knew all this, and this was his actual reason for vetoing the trade? Also is this Stern's way of getting back at Houston for booing him after Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Let's be honest, the man isn't above grudges. — Adam Spolane, Houston
SG: I love when Daryl Morey writes me with the alias "Adam Spolane." And yeah, you're right — if the Gasol trade goes through and Houston follows that up by signing Nene (something the Rockets believe would have happened, even if the rest of the league is dubious), here's Houston's team right now: Kyle Lowry, Courtney Lee, Chandler Parsons, Nene and Pau Gasol (starters); Jeremy Lin, Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Jordan Hill, Chase Budinger, Free Agent 2-Guard to Be Named (bench). Pretty interesting. Daryl will now light himself on fire.
(PS: Did you notice Houston was awarded the 2013 NBA All-Star Game last week? My buddy House is convinced that was Stern's way of apologizing for screwing the Rockets over. It's like Warden Norton letting Andy Dufresne shine his shoes right after he killed Andy's buddy who could have testified that Andy was innocent, and throwing Andy in the hole for two months for calling him "obtuse." Sorry about what happened, Houston — here, shine my shoes with the 2013 All-Star Game!)
That mailbag was awesome, I liked the paranoid dude who "believed" that Lin was an espn product hidden from the league with Stern's permission, only to create linsanity and get lots of hits.
Grantland has lots of good sport articles, I just wish Rick Reilley would write for them, he's my favorite sport columnist.
On February 16 2012 13:13 don_kyuhote wrote: ahaha what a great day of age to be a christian sports fan. First Tebow, now Lin pissing people off because of their faith?
Don't forget Jon Jones.
hahaha... I really don't see what the problem is with getting out a few Jesus/God shoutouts. It's not like they are giving a Sunday morning church sermon during their interviews.
J lin is strait fire, guy is a stud right now hope he can continue to help the knicks win games and hopefully he and carmello can co exist on the court
On February 16 2012 13:13 don_kyuhote wrote: ahaha what a great day of age to be a christian sports fan. First Tebow, now Lin pissing people off because of their faith?
Don't forget Jon Jones.
hahaha... I really don't see what the problem is with getting out a few Jesus/God shoutouts. It's not like they are giving a Sunday morning church sermon during their interviews.
Yeah with Tebow it's more ostentatious but I haven't seen Lin do anything more than thank God in interviews, which is similar to artists thanking god for winning awards at awards shows. Don't think it's really a big deal but people are making it out to be significant or something.
On February 16 2012 13:13 don_kyuhote wrote: ahaha what a great day of age to be a christian sports fan. First Tebow, now Lin pissing people off because of their faith?
Don't forget Jon Jones.
hahaha... I really don't see what the problem is with getting out a few Jesus/God shoutouts. It's not like they are giving a Sunday morning church sermon during their interviews.
Yeah with Tebow it's more ostentatious but I haven't seen Lin do anything more than thank God in interviews, which is similar to artists thanking god for winning awards at awards shows. Don't think it's really a big deal but people are making it out to be significant or something.
I think it's kind of like how whenever there's a girl on the Internet people flip the fuck out. It's not that (all the) people are sexist, it's that for whatever reason they associate being open with your gender as attention whoring, even though they wouldn't think that about most other personal traits. I guess part of it is that the faithful don't like people who come off as holier-than-thou.
As an atheist my reactions is basically 'ok, I think he's wrong but it's not my problem'. It's not like there aren't a whole bunch of superstitions athletes have, this is just the biggest one.
Q: This just hit me: If Stern doesn't veto the Lakers/Rockets/Hornets trade Jeremy Lin would still be a Rocket. Houston couldn't keep Lin because they already had 3 PG's with fully guaranteed contracts (Lowry, Dragic, Flynn). If the trade is allowed to go through, Lin would have been able to take Dragic's spot on the roster. Instead Stern vetoes the trade, and now Lin is singlehandedly saving the Knicks season, and keeping them out of the lottery. Oh ya, Houston owns New York's first rounder (top 5 protected). Is it possible Stern knew all this, and this was his actual reason for vetoing the trade? Also is this Stern's way of getting back at Houston for booing him after Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Let's be honest, the man isn't above grudges. — Adam Spolane, Houston
SG: I love when Daryl Morey writes me with the alias "Adam Spolane." And yeah, you're right — if the Gasol trade goes through and Houston follows that up by signing Nene (something the Rockets believe would have happened, even if the rest of the league is dubious), here's Houston's team right now: Kyle Lowry, Courtney Lee, Chandler Parsons, Nene and Pau Gasol (starters); Jeremy Lin, Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Jordan Hill, Chase Budinger, Free Agent 2-Guard to Be Named (bench). Pretty interesting. Daryl will now light himself on fire.
(PS: Did you notice Houston was awarded the 2013 NBA All-Star Game last week? My buddy House is convinced that was Stern's way of apologizing for screwing the Rockets over. It's like Warden Norton letting Andy Dufresne shine his shoes right after he killed Andy's buddy who could have testified that Andy was innocent, and throwing Andy in the hole for two months for calling him "obtuse." Sorry about what happened, Houston — here, shine my shoes with the 2013 All-Star Game!)
That mailbag was awesome, I liked the paranoid dude who "believed" that Lin was an espn product hidden from the league with Stern's permission, only to create linsanity and get lots of hits.
Grantland has lots of good sport articles, I just wish Rick Reilley would write for them, he's my favorite sport columnist.
Vintage Reilly ruled, but he's really gone down the shitter the last 3-4 years, especially since he jumped ship to ESPN. The dude recycles so many old phrases, or straight up whole stories
Q: It has been such a thrill to watch the emergence of Jeremy Lin. In fact my only regret as a Knicks fan is we didn't have him on the team last season so that Dolan could have included Lin in the package to Denver. — Robert, Santa Monica
At this point it is clear that melo is needed. Except for Lin and Stoudemire tonight, no one else showed up at all.
Fields 1 for 8 Novak 2 for 9 Walker 1 for 6 Shump 3 for 9
Lin has a lot of turnovers yeah. part of it is carelessness that he needs to fix, but part of it is that he has to play ultra aggressive, make inside passes, gets double teamed, is forced left etc. Melo will help take off a lot of the pressure I think.
outside shots man, you can't make them all, Novak missed a few open looks, but it wasn't their offense that fuck them in the ass, it's the lack of defense. Terrible defense allowing back door cut during clutch time for layups. If it were any of the top teams even if someone manage to catch the ball cutting in, they will get foul so hard that they won't be making a layup.
On February 18 2012 13:25 rei wrote: outside shots man, you can't make them all, Novak missed a few open looks, but it wasn't their offense that fuck them in the ass, it's the lack of defense. Terrible defense allowing back door cut during clutch time for layups. If it were any of the top teams even if someone manage to catch the ball cutting in, they will get foul so hard that they won't be making a layup.
I'm with you. The offense was pretty terrible tonight because of abysmal 3-point shooting but the defense was retarded. They'd foul when a guy was going for layup but a crap sissy one so not only would hornets score but draw the foul and get the 3-pt play too. Terrible.
Fields fouled late in the fourth on the double team, that was unnecessary. Novak missing all his easy open CRTICAL triples, Chandler sitting on the bench for way too long and Stoudemire needs to improve on his D. A lot of horrible plays tonight. All the pressure on Lin when he the drives results in easy turnovers. Though he did proved further today that his shooting ability shouldn't be doubted.
I have mixed feelings as a Taiwanese- American and a New Orleanian.
It's no big deal. The game was pretty close-- mistake were made. Jeremy Lin is still a beast. At the very, very least, he's shown he's at least NBA caliber, and that he was overlooked for the longest time.
those turnovers were silly, however i was impressed by his play in the second half, especially the clutch play at the end of the game. knicks defense blows though, they are going to need a lot of work on that. everytime they were on the verge of a comeback, the hornets would just easily lay the ball in.
People make way too big a deal of the turnovers, it's really common for high usage PGs to have turnover problems in their early years. Now consider that Lin went from virtually no experience to being played 40 minutes a game as the main ballhander, he's going to have a high TOV%, but it's not necessarily his achilles heel or something
Just wait until Lin becomes more experienced...I mean look at Rubio, who has played a few full seasons in Spain. After a while, Lin will know what to do in which situation and then he's going to be one of the dominant PGs in the league...
Its not just an early PG thing, every year you look at the most turnovers its all the same guys that also score 25 points a game and just hold the blal a lot regardless of age.
That said, people aren't looking too much into the turnovers, if he had 4ish a night ok thats fine but 8/9 is actually unreal
Asian American "out of nowhere" + post NFL season + pre March Madness + New York City + super-Christian element + feel-good story = absurd quantity of coverage.
Even my local shows (west coast) talk about him for the majority of their show, even on nights where the Knicks aren't even playing.
It's nice to see different players rise to the top for a change, but I'm confident that when Melo is back on regular duty, the Knicks will go back to their ineptitude, probably by directly hindering Lin's effectiveness with his presence.
To be honest a lot of Lin's turnovers are not that bad. He's making good passes. A lot of times it's his teammates that have retarded movement or just plain don't have the vision to see the play Lin's trying to make. So the ball sails past an open lane while the nooby teammate just stands there. The TO is then assigned to Lin, even though a lot of the problem is his teammates not working with him rather than any terrible fault of his own. Ofc he has his share of bad TO's but what's pushing it to 8-9 imo is the stupidity of his teammates.
ESPN's headline intentional racism or not? "Chink in the armor"
I've seen the phrase used a couple times in sports, but cmon man, how can the writer have such lack of empathy? People are actually downplaying this to where the writer was ignorant of the racist term.
"Chink in the armor": a weakness in the armor as they show a picture of Jeremy Lin for this headline. Double entendre? Hell yes.
On February 19 2012 12:13 matiK23 wrote: ESPN's headline intentional racism or not? "Chink in the armor"
I've seen the phrase used a couple times in sports, but cmon man, how can the writer have such lack of empathy? People are actually downplaying this to where the writer was ignorant of the racist term.
"Chink in the armor": a weakness in the armor as they show a picture of Jeremy Lin for this headline. Double entendre? Hell yes.
If you are a professional journalist and you are ignorant of what words mean in every context you should be fired or working for tabloids. The same person who is not ignorant of it should be fired as well. If a black hockey player had a weak game and the headline was "Whipped into Shape" I doubt anyone would argue ignorance.
The difference is, a lot of times they use chink in the armor as just a reference to a weakness but as a headline for the front page of something their intention is 1000000000000000 fuckin gpercent of the time is to make some clever pun, so their only intention on this pun was on his ethnicity which is why it was so fucked up
On February 18 2012 22:45 Xenos23 wrote: Just wait until Lin becomes more experienced...I mean look at Rubio, who has played a few full seasons in Spain. After a while, Lin will know what to do in which situation and then he's going to be one of the dominant PGs in the league...
Lin had 4 years of college. One of the biggest argument for not letting people enter the NBA from high school was that just one or two years has a huge impact on their development, and after four years they should be fairly polished and ready to make an impact. Lin will improve, but he's not a raw talent like John Wall.
Rubio has way more professional experience than Lin, he just needs time to improve. His playtime was so sudden, going from a bench player to playing almost the entire game and making such a drastic impact in such a sort period of time.
On February 19 2012 15:40 Disregard wrote: Rubio has way more professional experience than Lin, he just needs time to improve. His playtime was so sudden, going from a bench player to playing almost the entire game and making such a drastic impact in such a sort period of time.
Uh, it's because Dantoni is a terrible coach. He overplays starters and stars, you begin to think the Knicks have a weak bench. Oh wait, no they don't Dantoni just doesn't know how to coach at all. Why do you think Lin was on the bench for 2-3 weeks? Now he has to play 40 minutes a game...
On February 20 2012 05:33 setzer wrote: D'antoni is going to run Lin into the ground if he continues to play 45 minutes a game.
Ironically, Lin saved his career in NY. But, the coach didn't change. Hope they still fire him.
And who would possibly replace him with a good amount of experience as him? Also, that's why athletes condition, to be ready for games like those, every single game if needed.
Crazy game. I think NY's offense still needs a lot of work. At times when Lin was not on the court, the team looked lost passing the ball around without finding a good open shot.
I bet David Stern is jumping for joy because of Lin. It's funny going on facebook seeing people make comments like "I never watched Basketball before, but I'm a watch now because of Lin."
I just hope that one day NBA will be more popular like NFL. NBA finals isn't that exciting compared to Superbowl of course.
Why would you want to fire D'Antoni? He didn't want Melo, and the team he was promised after 2 years of being jerked around got broken up.
That dude has taken a lot of shit when the Knicks' Front Office has fucked him over multiple times. You can't blame him for not having a point guard when the Knicks got rid of the only 2 on the roster being lucking in to Jeremy Lin.
On February 20 2012 06:50 Ace wrote: Why would you want to fire D'Antoni? He didn't want Melo, and the team he was promised after 2 years of being jerked around got broken up.
That dude has taken a lot of shit when the Knicks' Front Office has fucked him over multiple times. You can't blame him for not having a point guard when the Knicks got rid of the only 2 on the roster being lucking in to Jeremy Lin.
D'Antoni might not be the best coach in the league but I agree with this. The NY situation was hardly his fault.
Poor Stoudemire only got 10shot attempts today, and that's without melo lol. 3 ppl Jrsmith, Lin and Melo all dominates the ball, this is ganna be tricky ahha.
I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
On February 19 2012 15:40 Disregard wrote: Rubio has way more professional experience than Lin, he just needs time to improve. His playtime was so sudden, going from a bench player to playing almost the entire game and making such a drastic impact in such a sort period of time.
Uh, it's because Dantoni is a terrible coach. He overplays starters and stars, you begin to think the Knicks have a weak bench. Oh wait, no they don't Dantoni just doesn't know how to coach at all. Why do you think Lin was on the bench for 2-3 weeks? Now he has to play 40 minutes a game...
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
Considering the NBA is a predominantly "black" league. He went undrafted because he was Asian. The so called scouts didn't think he could play with the big boys. If you actually followed him during his Havard days he was pretty good. It's baffling how he went undrafted and became the player he is today.
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
Lin is the first of the very few* Asian-American players to play in the NBA, the other Asian prospects are foreigners.
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
Yeah. He's the first Taiwanese/Chinese-American player to start in the NBA. Also rant on people who keep saying he's a Taiwanese American not a Chinese American. From my perspective that's like saying "I'm a Canadian American." Unless his family is actually native to Taiwan, which they obviously aren't, the ethnic and cultural heritage are the same. In today's world, the real difference between the label of Taiwanese and Chinese when applied as a prefix to American denotes nothing but the political affiliation or lack thereof of your grandparents. Also, I find the term Taiwanese-American to be retarded if for no other reason than that it makes it quite ambiguous when somebody actually is a native of Taiwan, which implies a different ethnic heritage and culture entirely.
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
There have been a total of 2 Asian-American basketball players... in the history of the NBA. The last one was in the 1940's, which was when athletes were like 1/10 as good as today. Likewise, as far as I can tell, there are no full or more than half asian americans in the NFL either. Here's a break down.
This basically makes Jeremy Lin an extreme minority (and I mean extreme) for a very proud group of people (asians). And this is in one of the very few fields in which America does not make a case for racial equality (although they do have gender equality rules for high school and college).
Oops, there were another four. They were all half Asians though. Full asians never get as much love as halfies (seriously, halfies are so cute and tend to be ridiculously good lookin ).
Thanks for the responses. So, if I can summarize what was said to test my understanding: he is succeeding despite discrimination and therefore indirectly challenging the stereotype of race as a factor in basketball?
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
Yeah. He's the first Taiwanese/Chinese-American player to start in the NBA. Also rant on people who keep saying he's a Taiwanese American not a Chinese American. From my perspective that's like saying "I'm a Canadian American." Unless his family is actually native to Taiwan, which they obviously aren't, the ethnic and cultural heritage are the same. In today's world, the real difference between the label of Taiwanese and Chinese when applied as a prefix to American denotes nothing but the political affiliation or lack thereof of your grandparents. Also, I find the term Taiwanese-American to be retarded if for no other reason than that it makes it quite ambiguous when somebody actually is a native of Taiwan, which implies a different ethnic heritage and culture entirely.
Indeed, I'm tired of seeing the abuse by political ultras and census ads recently after this show ignited, trying to set a line between Taiwanese affiliation from Chinese. Everyone needs a lesson in human-geography 101.
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
Yeah. He's the first Taiwanese/Chinese-American player to start in the NBA. Also rant on people who keep saying he's a Taiwanese American not a Chinese American. From my perspective that's like saying "I'm a Canadian American." Unless his family is actually native to Taiwan, which they obviously aren't, the ethnic and cultural heritage are the same. In today's world, the real difference between the label of Taiwanese and Chinese when applied as a prefix to American denotes nothing but the political affiliation or lack thereof of your grandparents. Also, I find the term Taiwanese-American to be retarded if for no other reason than that it makes it quite ambiguous when somebody actually is a native of Taiwan, which implies a different ethnic heritage and culture entirely.
Well his family is native to Taiwan, he's first generation. My parents and family are native to hong kong, i'm the first one born in america therefore him asian-american as well lol.
D'antoni needs to be fired soley because of his coaching style. Run and gun is fun and all and puts people in seats, but offense doesn't win championships. If NY is to compete for a title, it has to be without D'antoni.
On February 20 2012 16:26 Durak wrote: Thanks for the responses. So, if I can summarize what was said to test my understanding: he is succeeding despite discrimination and therefore indirectly challenging the stereotype of race as a factor in basketball?
He is beating the odds. And oh shit were the odds stacked against him. It's not just the race and discrimination thing but all of the other things that have had to take place (i.e. injuries, moving from a small market team to a big market team like the Knicks)for Linsanity to happen.
On February 20 2012 16:44 Klogon wrote: He's American born so he's 2nd gen.
The way I understand it your parents do not count as first gen if they were born overseas. They are then OBC or immigrants. Children born to parents who immigrated are first gen. Kids born to the first gen are second gen, etc.
On February 20 2012 16:44 Klogon wrote: He's American born so he's 2nd gen.
The way I understand it your parents do not count as first gen if they were born overseas. They are then OBC or immigrants. Children born to parents who immigrated are first gen. Kids born to the first gen are second gen, etc.
On February 20 2012 16:44 Klogon wrote: He's American born so he's 2nd gen.
The way I understand it your parents do not count as first gen if they were born overseas. They are then OBC or immigrants. Children born to parents who immigrated are first gen. Kids born to the first gen are second gen, etc.
Actually, i think if the kids are born in the host country they are first generation because they are citizen at birth. Kids who are born outside the country but arrive at a young age are .5 generations.
Well, Wikipedia says it can be either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations The way I always understood it and heard people talk about it was that parents who immigrated are 1st generation, children who moved before around age 16 or so are 1.5 generation, and children of immigrants are 2nd generation.
On February 20 2012 17:23 mtvacuum wrote: Well, Wikipedia says it can be either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations The way I always understood it and heard people talk about it was that parents who immigrated are 1st generation, children who moved before around age 16 or so are 1.5 generation, and children of immigrants are 2nd generation.
This.
Go to pretty much any Asian American and ask them if they are 1st or second generation, and then ask them their story. All my Asian friends here in the states call themselves 2nd generation unless they arrived without their parents.
Technically I was born in Korea so I could be 1.5 gen, but I arrived so young that I identify as a 2nd gen. 1.5 gen tends to be fobbier as they usually arrive a bit into their development and thus have a slightly different sub-culture.
I'm not sure about how it gets used in other countries or contexts, but having been on both coasts, I can say for certain that this is how the lingo gets used by Asian Americans.
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
There have been a total of 2 Asian-American basketball players... in the history of the NBA. The last one was in the 1940's, which was when athletes were like 1/10 as good as today. Likewise, as far as I can tell, there are no full or more than half asian americans in the NFL either. Here's a break down.
This basically makes Jeremy Lin an extreme minority (and I mean extreme) for a very proud group of people (asians). And this is in one of the very few fields in which America does not make a case for racial equality (although they do have gender equality rules for high school and college).
Oops, there were another four. They were all half Asians though. Full asians never get as much love as halfies (seriously, halfies are so cute and tend to be ridiculously good lookin ).
On February 20 2012 15:11 Hinanawi wrote: I don't follow basketball, but the weight on Lin's shoulders must be tremendous, he's basically got asians around the globe putting their hopes on him. Here's hoping he stays strong and doesn't let that get to him.
Can anyone tell me why this amazing basketball player's run has anything to do with race? Honest question; I don't even follow basketball. Are there no Asian-American basketball players so this is a big deal?
Yeah. He's the first Taiwanese/Chinese-American player to start in the NBA. Also rant on people who keep saying he's a Taiwanese American not a Chinese American. From my perspective that's like saying "I'm a Canadian American." Unless his family is actually native to Taiwan, which they obviously aren't, the ethnic and cultural heritage are the same. In today's world, the real difference between the label of Taiwanese and Chinese when applied as a prefix to American denotes nothing but the political affiliation or lack thereof of your grandparents. Also, I find the term Taiwanese-American to be retarded if for no other reason than that it makes it quite ambiguous when somebody actually is a native of Taiwan, which implies a different ethnic heritage and culture entirely.
Well his family is native to Taiwan, he's first generation. My parents and family are native to hong kong, i'm the first one born in america therefore him asian-american as well lol.
They're not native to Taiwan... Do they look like little brown aboriginals to you?
On February 20 2012 16:50 LeaF_SD wrote: D'antoni needs to be fired soley because of his coaching style. Run and gun is fun and all and puts people in seats, but offense doesn't win championships. If NY is to compete for a title, it has to be without D'antoni.
This doesn't seem like a good reason to fire him from upper management's perspective if he makes them cash moneyz.
On February 20 2012 16:50 LeaF_SD wrote: D'antoni needs to be fired soley because of his coaching style. Run and gun is fun and all and puts people in seats, but offense doesn't win championships. If NY is to compete for a title, it has to be without D'antoni.
LOL
Another Knicks fan who's letting success get to his head? The main reason they are even winning games is because they found a great point guard who can run D'antoni's offensive system to near-perfection. The Knicks are years away from being a legitimate championship contender.
Their defense was decent recently, but not good enough, even during last night's win, Terry could have tied the game with an wide open 3pter. It would have been a different game. They did make a lot of good defensive plays, and they must do it every position, not just be good on some and slacking on others. I'm glad that Lin is not a defensive liability i thought he would be. He is very good at reading and help defense.
Wow I always thought first gen meant first born in that country. Had no idea people called that 2nd. Also isn't your "generation" when you where born. So to me it makes more sense that 1st gen has to be born in that country.
Been following Lin for the last couple of weeks, a very interesting journey indeed... Now in hindsight it's kind of hilarious reading the comments at the start of this thread with people saying stuff like ''he won't make it big'' etc
On February 21 2012 03:07 Dizmaul wrote: Wow I always thought first gen meant first born in that country. Had no idea people called that 2nd. Also isn't your "generation" when you where born. So to me it makes more sense that 1st gen has to be born in that country.
That's not how the term is used widely by Asian Americans. I believe studies documenting immigrants don't use it that way, either. The first generation are always the people that moved.
we have not seen Knicks play without Lin for more than 3minutes each game in the past week. Most of Lin's turnover are live ball turnovers, which always leads to fast break points from the other team, mostly due to his handle through traffic being not so strong, and he likes to Jump to fake a shot and draw in the defense before he pass the ball off. Sometimes it works out and sometimes he has nowhere to go in mid air. I believe i read somewhere an article analyzed all Lin's turnovers and Assists, his turnovers lead to 60something points for opponent team in the past 2 weeks, and 50 or so of those points are fast break points. that prevented the Knicks from blowing out bad teams. It will only get better as the team gets more chemistry, Lin also needs dribble that ball lower in traffic + stop jump passing under basket.
On February 21 2012 03:59 m1rk3 wrote: too many turnovers in such a short period of time
That's pretty much what happens to even the best point guards when the rest of your offense is a bunch of useless statues. When you're forced to drive to the lane to open up anything for a stagnant offense it's pretty easy for teams to send 4 pairs of hands swatting at the ball.
That said, his handle on the ball needs to improve, but it's not like it's bad.
And all of that aside, definitely not too many turnovers. Too many turnovers would be like 20. That he just walked into the offense and picked up this fast this successfully with practically no experience is baffling.
I'm loving this story. It's exciting. The NBA needed something like this. We've had a lot of great stories out of the NFL and MLB lately, but not much in the NBA. His turnover rate will go down soon enough. He's still learning that when the defense crashes, you can't commit too deep or you'll turn it over. Hopefully he'll watch steve nash or some other amazing assist men to see how they do it.
I think Lin's aggressiveness driving to the net that's causing so many turnovers. Some of the things wrong with that is that the defense knows that he always drives to his right. Another is that he overly commits. He doesn't bob and weave around traffic like CP3 does. Once Lin is intent on going to the net he's going straight in and he either finishes or he dishes it out. It's just a matter of making better reads-something that he really has to work on.
well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard!
On February 21 2012 05:10 udgnim wrote: Lin eating with friends 3 days before he gets his chance versus the Nets
not just any friends! celebrities from Taiwan!
Can you tell us who they are? I thought the woman was too attractive to be just some random person. And who's the guy behind the camera? Seems like Chandler and Anthony knows him...maybe another baller?
On February 21 2012 03:07 Dizmaul wrote: Wow I always thought first gen meant first born in that country. Had no idea people called that 2nd. Also isn't your "generation" when you where born. So to me it makes more sense that 1st gen has to be born in that country.
That's not how the term is used widely by Asian Americans. I believe studies documenting immigrants don't use it that way, either. The first generation are always the people that moved.
I'm Asian American, 1st gen, means 1st generation born.
On February 21 2012 03:07 Dizmaul wrote: Wow I always thought first gen meant first born in that country. Had no idea people called that 2nd. Also isn't your "generation" when you where born. So to me it makes more sense that 1st gen has to be born in that country.
That's not how the term is used widely by Asian Americans. I believe studies documenting immigrants don't use it that way, either. The first generation are always the people that moved.
I'm Asian American, 1st gen, means 1st generation born.
lol, there really isn't any use in discussing this topic anymore since the use of first generation can be used in either way.
On February 21 2012 03:07 Dizmaul wrote: Wow I always thought first gen meant first born in that country. Had no idea people called that 2nd. Also isn't your "generation" when you where born. So to me it makes more sense that 1st gen has to be born in that country.
That's not how the term is used widely by Asian Americans. I believe studies documenting immigrants don't use it that way, either. The first generation are always the people that moved.
I'm Asian American, 1st gen, means 1st generation born.
lol, there really isn't any use in discussing this topic anymore since the use of first generation can be used in either way.
generate-to create/to make.
1stgeneration quite literally means the first made/created.
Seriously all the supposed "racist" headlines and shit, about lin. I really don't give a shit. Dunno why Americans are so damn sensitive about race, it's stupid.
Anyone else in this thread should read OP, and when it was posted. Give this guy a fucking cookie.
On February 21 2012 06:09 rei wrote: well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard!
It's comical and amazing that the first people we're comparing this scrub from nowhere to are Chris Paul and Steve Nash.
On February 21 2012 06:09 rei wrote: well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard!
It's comical and amazing that the first people we're comparing this scrub from nowhere to are Chris Paul and Steve Nash.
21 points, 9 assists, 7 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 turnovers. Only 7-18 from the floor but his team seriously let him down tonight. D-Will was lights out from beyond the arc.
I think his team played decent, could be a lot better, especially Melo with 6 turnovers, and Stoudemire didn't Box out for rebounds during clutch time and got owned bad. it's something they can build up from. They would have won this if not for Dwill going apeshit streaking. The ball movement was good for the Knicks, they got like 6ppl in double digit scoring, their offense is working.
Lin had great stats tonight but i don't think he played well. He forced alot of bad shots on offense and got killed by Deron and pretty much every Guard the Nets put against him since he didn't know how to deal with the Off-Ball screens the Nets threw at him the whole game.
Quite honestly Williams was supermotivated to make a statement today and he did.
Lin's teammates weren't good tonight. Jeffries was fking terrible as always. Smith hardly showed up. Davis was a dud. Carmelo below 40% shooting. Stoudemire barely 40%. 6 TOs from Carmelo. And Nets had triple the 3-pters... And that's not all on Lin. Plenty of nets were dropping 3s not just Williams.
Also, a lot of Lin's TOs are because his teammates are not hussling and not showing up in the open lanes. Stoudemire is constantly doing this, walking his lazy ass around when there's an open spot a few feet in front of him and letting the other team intercept the pass. Those TOs shouldn't be on Lin but he gets counted for em.
Hmm, Knicks looked exactly the same in both NO and NJ games. Just couldn't get the shots to fall in. Stoudamire looks like a fraction of his former selve. No real explosiveness or hustle on defense or offense. Lin was deferring a lot to Melo and the other guys though and this has shown to be the Knicks downfall in the New Orleans game. I've love to see what's going behind the scenes in Knicks practice as this situation is one of the most unique in a sports team environment in some time. I'm sure a lot of it is just mental right now, figuring out what each other's roles are. I bet Melo and Amare still can't believe that an Asian is leading their team.
Stork: Lin should have more TO's this game as the defenders actually locked him up in the paint when the refs bailed him out with reach in fouls.
WoW! Some NBA team should hire royzizzle(threadstarter) as a scout, he probably was the only guy on the planet who thought Lin would make it. I, as an Mavs fan, saw the summer league games of lin for the mavs and I hoped DAL would sign him. I thought he would become a nice Pass-First PG. But in his Summer League games he showed like no offense/defense at all and some nice dishes arent enough to make it in the NBA.
On October 26 2010 12:24 Tazza wrote: I think a lot of what you guys are saying, is what a lot of critics have said about him. However, time and time again, he proves them wrong. Listen, he averaged like 25 ppg in high school, but wasn't recruited heavily, and went to harvard. A lot of people said he couldn't succeed in college, as the players were too fast and strong, he proves them wrong by putting up gaudy stats, and beating major teams like bc and maryland. Now, in the nba, i suspect the same. Did you see what he did against john wall? He played great. And he's not a small point guard, he is about 6'2-6'3, which is actually a little taller than the average pg.
In the end, i hope he doesn't have to deal with the racism he had to deal with those dumbass fuck college basketball fans. Seriously, it was ridiculous what he had to go through. If i were him, i certainly would have gone out to the stands and started beatin the shit out of everyone. At least nba has some good asian players, and a lot more foreign players in general
I also saw him choke against Ivy League competition. Say what you want, I admire his work ethic, but the NBA isn't college; there's a reason why people fail from college to it. He's not that quick and will have issues fighting through screens. Not hating on him, just the truth. John Wall gets loose with the ball, he averaged like 8 TOs per game in college, that's against mediocre SEC competition too, so I wouldn't read too much into it.
The other college game people love highlighting is his performance against Uconn; if you watched Uconn since 2000, then you know that they can't guard a shooting guard worth their life, it doesn't matter who it is.
Rofl nice dig...but Wall didn't average 8 TO's, and I've never heard mediocre SEC competition before, not to mention in college basketball you go against top teams regularly that aren't in the conference.
Meh, it was a sloppy and messy game, but not particularly terrible. They scored 92 points - that type of offense is enough to win a lot of games. But when DWill monsters like he did, you lose. Yeah, sounds about right.
On February 21 2012 06:09 rei wrote: well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard!
It's comical and amazing that the first people we're comparing this scrub from nowhere to are Chris Paul and Steve Nash.
I find it funny that basketball no-names like you are calling a talented player a scrub, while basketball legends like Magic Johnson and Steve Nash are praising him
He's averaging 20+ points a game, and really driving Knicks offense into a formidable machine. Go back to college basketball please and stop before you embarrass yourself even more..
On February 21 2012 06:09 rei wrote: well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard!
It's comical and amazing that the first people we're comparing this scrub from nowhere to are Chris Paul and Steve Nash.
Scrub huh...
That's what you would expect from a Flash fan. ^__^
Amare just looks so apathetic ont he field. He stands around watching most of the time. Doesn't box out, not filling the lanes or running the break, no help defense. Even when he has the ball there is no explosiveness left.
On October 26 2010 12:24 Tazza wrote: I think a lot of what you guys are saying, is what a lot of critics have said about him. However, time and time again, he proves them wrong. Listen, he averaged like 25 ppg in high school, but wasn't recruited heavily, and went to harvard. A lot of people said he couldn't succeed in college, as the players were too fast and strong, he proves them wrong by putting up gaudy stats, and beating major teams like bc and maryland. Now, in the nba, i suspect the same. Did you see what he did against john wall? He played great. And he's not a small point guard, he is about 6'2-6'3, which is actually a little taller than the average pg.
In the end, i hope he doesn't have to deal with the racism he had to deal with those dumbass fuck college basketball fans. Seriously, it was ridiculous what he had to go through. If i were him, i certainly would have gone out to the stands and started beatin the shit out of everyone. At least nba has some good asian players, and a lot more foreign players in general
I also saw him choke against Ivy League competition. Say what you want, I admire his work ethic, but the NBA isn't college; there's a reason why people fail from college to it. He's not that quick and will have issues fighting through screens. Not hating on him, just the truth. John Wall gets loose with the ball, he averaged like 8 TOs per game in college, that's against mediocre SEC competition too, so I wouldn't read too much into it.
The other college game people love highlighting is his performance against Uconn; if you watched Uconn since 2000, then you know that they can't guard a shooting guard worth their life, it doesn't matter who it is.
XD
To be fair fighting through screens is exactly what Lin struggled with so far. Lin's pretty good but like every young players he'll have to adjust his game alot once the scouting report on you is out. Not saying Lin can't do it but it's going to get tougher for sure. I only saw his games against the Mavs and the Nets and i don't think he looked all that great in both of them even though he looked good on the Statsheet. Some flashes with great plays but alot of needless dribbling around and taking stupid ass shots while beeing bailed out by the refs a ton. Right now the whole league is in love with him so he gets alot of calls in his favor ( honestly only reason the Knicks won on Sunday in my mind was getting a buttload of questionable calls ) . At some points thats not going to happen anymore.
Right now Amare and Melo look like Scrubs and Lin looks great not sure that's what the Knicks want. D'Antoni has to adjust the system to make everyone work while still winning. A lineup with Melo / Amare and Lin will get killed on defense especially they also play JR Smith.
On February 21 2012 13:58 StorkHwaiting wrote: Lin's teammates weren't good tonight. Jeffries was fking terrible as always. Smith hardly showed up. Davis was a dud. Carmelo below 40% shooting. Stoudemire barely 40%. 6 TOs from Carmelo. And Nets had triple the 3-pters... And that's not all on Lin. Plenty of nets were dropping 3s not just Williams.
Also, a lot of Lin's TOs are because his teammates are not hussling and not showing up in the open lanes. Stoudemire is constantly doing this, walking his lazy ass around when there's an open spot a few feet in front of him and letting the other team intercept the pass. Those TOs shouldn't be on Lin but he gets counted for em.
Uh... Lin's turnovers were on him. He's not a very crisp passer, plus he got bailed out of 4 or 5 sloppy dribbling turnovers with weak fouls.
On February 21 2012 16:22 Klogon wrote: Meh, it was a sloppy and messy game, but not particularly terrible. They scored 92 points - that type of offense is enough to win a lot of games. But when DWill monsters like he did, you lose. Yeah, sounds about right.
O.O 92 points is relatively poor offensively, especially when your defense is as bad as the Knicks'. They averaged over 105 per game last season. Even with DWill going off, the Knicks shouldn't have lost.
MarShon (capital 'S', really?) Brooks and Kris Humphries were the ones who shouldn't be abusing the Knicks like that.
On February 21 2012 18:37 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Amare just looks so apathetic ont he field. He stands around watching most of the time. Doesn't box out, not filling the lanes or running the break, no help defense. Even when he has the ball there is no explosiveness left.
I used to that think Amare basically skated by on his athleticism and having Steve Nash passing him the ball. After his first year in NY he made a believer out of me. I didn't think he'd be shit with Nash.
But now without the explosiveness, what is he? The situation reminds me of Kenyon Martin somewhat.
I'm not sure how many of you have read or know about Slam Dunk, but its author, Takehiko Inoue, just drew a portrait of Jeremy Lin. Huge wow factor for a lot of the fans in Asia.
Some sources say it was just a modification done by fans and not by Takehiko Inoue himself. Still pretty cool nevertheless.
Ah, I haven't followed NBA for a long while. So is this guy genuinely good or are people just overhyping him? It's certainly nice to have an asian player make a mark, but I do hate it when people overhype things.
It really depends on the person. I personally thought he was good before his recent success exploded. Some say that he is over hyped or overrated because he is Asian and it shouldn't be a big factor to all the media fuss. It can be looked both ways, I think it is great that an Asian American is having great success so far in the NBA and his "underdog story" is appealing to draw in new fans of the sport.
On February 23 2012 05:34 Telcontar wrote: Ah, I haven't followed NBA for a long while. So is this guy genuinely good or are people just overhyping him? It's certainly nice to have an asian player make a mark, but I do hate it when people overhype things.
His numbers are very good, but he has yet to start more than 10 games. It's really hard to make an accurate assumption in any sport when you've not even started 1/4 worth of the games in the season.
On February 23 2012 05:34 Telcontar wrote: Ah, I haven't followed NBA for a long while. So is this guy genuinely good or are people just overhyping him? It's certainly nice to have an asian player make a mark, but I do hate it when people overhype things.
I've always seen him as a bench contributor who could improve. he proved that he skill ceiling is actually higher than most people predicted. now most basketball fans are waiting for his turnovers to slow down before we start clumping him with elite pgs. I'd place him around the level of goran dragic or ty lawson currently, very good players, just need to improve slightly before being added into the top echelon of players. there is still 20 pgs I'd rather have over lin, but that's a lot lower than the 100 pgs I'd rather have over toney douglas, or from an asia perspective, the 40 pf's I'd take over yi.
On February 23 2012 05:19 Weedk wrote: Might be easier for Lin to drive if he hits the weights. That foo is way too skinny. Now look at Lebron. Huge. Unstoppable.
Lebron might be the strongest player in the whole NBA (except for Howard maybe). No PG is even gonna come close to that.
Lin is pretty big for a point guard. 6'3 and 200+ pounds is pretty good. Most PGs are considerably smaller.
umm what? earl boykins could out lift lbj, and he was certainly smaller than Lin. its a matter of dedication. earl needed strength to avoid getting posted, lin needs strength and experience so he can make, and execute, half court offensive schemes.
On February 23 2012 07:15 Holcan wrote: umm what? earl boykins could out lift lbj.
You should just stop talking before you embarrass yourself further.
maybe you should go do some research. its a well known fact that boykins can bench 315lbs, but yea, I'm going to embarass myself....
five foot nine inches, 139 lbs, benching 315. yea lin can definitely bulk up if he wanted to.
also lbj has natural strength, it is his agility and speed coupled with the strength that make him super human, he doesn't need to bench 300lbs if he can get a step offensively and defensively every possesion.
On February 23 2012 05:19 Weedk wrote: Might be easier for Lin to drive if he hits the weights. That foo is way too skinny. Now look at Lebron. Huge. Unstoppable.
Lebron is an abnormal human being. Lin is big for his size, dude.
He's definitely a starter in the league and he has the right demeanor, but his attributes aren't top notch. I think he's mostly overhyped because he's in NYC and people were desperate to see real basketball after their offense was gutted at the end of last season. Knicks fans were hyping up Baron Davis' human-shaped shell, for crying out loud. I think he'll be one of those semi-all star players who makes it 2 or 3 times in his career. A top 15 point guard right now.
If he can become a good defender (which is entirely possible, especially given his acumen), he'll take the next step.
On February 23 2012 05:19 Weedk wrote: Might be easier for Lin to drive if he hits the weights. That foo is way too skinny. Now look at Lebron. Huge. Unstoppable.
You realize he's like 6'3 205 or something which is pretty big for a PG. Deron Williams is considered a big PG and he's not much bigger, and Jeremy's frame can only get so big, he's already gotten a lot bigger just looking at pictures of 2 years ago his senior year at Harvard, which was much bigger than his 2nd year at Harvard, etc.
It's not that Lin has to get bigger; He's already very big for a point guard. But somehow he looks very small for someone his size if that makes any sense at all. I see in Lin someone who is succeeding at his position in spite of his physical prowess, not because of it. I would love to see how Lin would have turned out if he had the same access to trainers and facilities as elite athletes like CP3 and DRose.
On February 23 2012 09:10 buickskylark wrote: It's not that Lin has to get bigger; He's already very big for a point guard. But somehow he looks very small for someone his size if that makes any sense at all. I see in Lin someone who is succeeding at his position in spite of his physical prowess, not because of it. I would love to see how Lin would have turned out if he had the same access to trainers and facilities as elite athletes like CP3 and DRose.
Honestly, I dont think he ever had the same athletic ability that those 2 have anyway. Infact if you look back at his history people keep posting up here thats infact precisely the problem that they saw in him when he wasnt recruited. But thats not his game and thats fine. Hes looks a bit clumsy when he drives and that too is fine hes strong enough to take a hit and put the floaters up and it doesnt matter how pretty it looks as long as he gets it done, which so far he has.
On February 23 2012 05:34 Telcontar wrote: Ah, I haven't followed NBA for a long while. So is this guy genuinely good or are people just overhyping him? It's certainly nice to have an asian player make a mark, but I do hate it when people overhype things.
His numbers are very good, but he has yet to start more than 10 games. It's really hard to make an accurate assumption in any sport when you've not even started 1/4 worth of the games in the season.
On February 23 2012 05:34 Telcontar wrote: Ah, I haven't followed NBA for a long while. So is this guy genuinely good or are people just overhyping him? It's certainly nice to have an asian player make a mark, but I do hate it when people overhype things.
I've always seen him as a bench contributor who could improve. he proved that he skill ceiling is actually higher than most people predicted. now most basketball fans are waiting for his turnovers to slow down before we start clumping him with elite pgs. I'd place him around the level of goran dragic or ty lawson currently, very good players, just need to improve slightly before being added into the top echelon of players. there is still 20 pgs I'd rather have over lin, but that's a lot lower than the 100 pgs I'd rather have over toney douglas, or from an asia perspective, the 40 pf's I'd take over yi.
Thanks fellas. Sounds like he needs more time & games to prove his worth. Hopefully he'll get the chance.
On February 21 2012 06:09 rei wrote: well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard!
It's comical and amazing that the first people we're comparing this scrub from nowhere to are Chris Paul and Steve Nash.
I find it funny that basketball no-names like you are calling a talented player a scrub, while basketball legends like Magic Johnson and Steve Nash are praising him
He's averaging 20+ points a game, and really driving Knicks offense into a formidable machine. Go back to college basketball please and stop before you embarrass yourself even more..
He was a scrub in the NBA. You're mixing my words up. I'm not insulting him, I'm saying he's so dramatically burst onto the scene that a guy with his skills is being compared to the best point guard now and the best point guard of the last decade.
I used scrub as a way to demonstrate that it is absurd to insult someone who, after starting only a handful of games, is getting praised and compared to the likes of Nash and Paul. The point is that 3 weeks ago no one even knew who he was as a player (IE: a scrub) and is now getting compared to all time greats, which speaks absurdly well of him. Learn some reading context before being offended.
On February 21 2012 18:23 shaftofpleasure wrote: That's what you would expect from a Flash fan. ^__^
TwoToneTerran, I think your use of "amazing" in your previous statement could be taken as an LOL trollish amazing instead of a positive way. Probably where the hate is coming from. You were clearly misunderstood, though. It's okay
I'm not a huge fan of the NBA but this has been fun to hear about. It's always cool when superstars fail to do the job and the little guy jumps in and makes the difference. It's funny to see some of the first posts in this thread too. Just goes to show opinions are opinions. Whether or not he keeps this going he's illustrating perfectly the adage of "expect the unexpected."
On February 23 2012 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: It was probably the use of the word comical, but the entire thing is pretty hilarious. It's right out of a children's story.
Yea it is, and thats the point. I dont think anyone really has any illusions about how good he is. Most people are just enjoying the knicks winning again. And ofcourse the story helps.
So what if people call him a poor mans Steve Nash(hes not). Just let people enjoy it, I think its funny to but Im not going to step over people and try to convince them otherwise just so I can say "I told you so". (Im not suggesting thats what you did, just making a point). And your initial comment did sound pretty harsh even if that wasnt what you meant. And no hes probably not a scrub and hes certainly worth a top 20pg spot just based on his turning the knicks around at this point in time imo.
On February 23 2012 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: It was probably the use of the word comical, but the entire thing is pretty hilarious. It's right out of a children's story.
Yea it is, and thats the point. I dont think anyone really has any illusions about how good he is. Most people are just enjoying the knicks winning again. And ofcourse the story helps.
So what if people call him a poor mans Steve Nash(hes not). Just let people enjoy it, I think its funny to but Im not going to step over people and try to convince them otherwise just so I can say "I told you so". (Im not suggesting thats what you did, just making a point). And your initial comment did sound pretty harsh even if that wasnt what you meant. And no hes probably not a scrub and hes certainly worth a top 20pg spot just based on his turning the knicks around at this point in time imo.
This was what I was saying too and people got overly defensive because I jabbed at comparing him to the best point guard in the league and, well, Steve Nash.
He's definitely a starter in the league and he has the right demeanor, but his attributes aren't top notch. I think he's mostly overhyped because he's in NYC and people were desperate to see real basketball after their offense was gutted at the end of last season
He's 6'3" and reasonably tough, he's got a quick first step, he's got an excellent handle (particularly going right) such that he can consistently split defenders and doesn't need to pick up his dribble even in the lane, he's a good finisher, he has good court vision/passing mechanics, his jumpshot is much better than advertside with a quick release and high arc, he's got good hands on defense and he's got the balls to take big shots.
Does he have flaws? Sure. He gambles too much on defense, he could stand to make quicker reads sometimes instead of forcing the issue, he's weaker going to his left, and he's too careless with the ball.
But his "attributes" are frankly lottery-pick level. if teams had known that there was a quick 6'3" pg who could shoot, beat nba defenders off the dribble, and run a high performing offense just waiting around, they'd have jumped on him.
I think anyone at this point who thinks its just a fluke needs to get their head checked. There is no reason at all Lin can't average 18 pts 8 assists on this team for the forseeable future, and his upside is potentially even higher than that.
He actually has a slow first step, but he takes good angles around screens and his top speed is good. He already knows how to use screens well but that's something you learn, quickness is not. He is a great finisher but his dribbling is only good, and becomes poor when he leaves it high after driving or tries to turn around in the lane or just goes left. Great vision but his passing mechanics actually aren't. It doesn't really matter when he's just dumping or lobbing, plus you can learn to become a better passer, which I'm sure he will.
And this isn't a high performance offense. I don't know where you're getting that from. This is not a typical D'Antoni offense and he's not a running player. He's a half court player and they run pick and roll fairly efficiently, but they're still only putting up 95 points a game, which is middle of the pack.
His best physical attributes are strength, body control and vision but that doesn't make him a prime athlete like a Westbrook or Wall. That's why people anticipate a limit on his potential, although they don't take into account acumen which is another one of his strengths. He's not a fluke and he can average 18/8 but keep in mind Felton averaged 17/9 last year for the Knicks.
Stats really shouldn't be used to measure him anyways. The Knicks had one of the greatest stat producing guards of all time in Marbury and they were still a shitty team, whereas when Lin plays the Knicks noticeably become a good, functional, hardworking team. I don't think anyone would disagree that it's his intangibles, especially this early in a young player's career, that make him special.
The ESPN Sports Science team utilized a specific drive against the Lakers where John Brenkus describes Lin’s amazing quickness, “Within three strides, he can accelerate from essentially zero to roughly 10 MPH in less than one second. That’s acceleration on par with 2010 No. 1 draft pick John Wall.”
As for passing mechanics, Lin consistently has excellent timing on lobs for teammates, and if he has a teammate open downcourt he can find them with a bullet and does so consistently. Where he runs into trouble is in making poor decisions--like a cocky quarterback, he'll sometimes try to just throw it right through the defenders and predictably tend to get pcked off.
That's not a first step. You'd have to see which drive it was too. He accelerates quickly towards the basket because he takes great angles around the screens, but you're not going to see him catching most good defenders off guard iso, like you would a guard with elite quickness like Parker or Paul.
These Heat players are just way too fast on the floor. Pick and rolls failing miserably all night long. So many intercepted passes or players getting boxed in off the dribble. Scouts'll be watching reels of this game and I think the Lin-lead pick-and-roll is going to be figured out around the league pretty soon unless the Knicks roll some more varied strategies.
yeah against the heat it probably comes down to Lin passing at the right time (when the heat set ups a trap or double team), or having melo step it up and play iso reallly well. the heat just killed the pick and roll
Great article on how Lin went from undrafted from Harvard to where he is today. It obviously wasn't some sudden improvement, it was a result of Lin's great work ethic and drive. And that is what is going to make him keep getting better. A better jumper, some more explosive athleticism, better reads on traps/double teams, etc. are the kinds of things that hard work can improve.
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
Indeed. A new ice cream flavor quickly "created" to cash in on the newest sports dead-beaten horse just reminds us that the ultimate goal all the powers that be is to distract us from this sad-sack world and fallen country, and make a profit at the same time.
Play really good in 8 games and get your own ice cream flavor? I got good grades for a few consecutive years... can I have a free frozen yogurt please?
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
i agree, the reason he is hyped up is because he is asian american, Kobe does it every night .... then they make ice cream and people are out raged? seems like a bit of a double standard ....
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
Indeed. A new ice cream flavor quickly "created" to cash in on the newest sports dead-beaten horse just reminds us that the ultimate goal all the powers that be is to distract us from this sad-sack world and fallen country, and make a profit at the same time.
Play really good in 8 games and get your own ice cream flavor? I got good grades for a few consecutive years... can I have a free frozen yogurt please?
Clearly this is a reasonable conclusion to draw from this interpretation.
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
i agree, the reason he is hyped up is because he is asian american, Kobe does it every night .... then they make ice cream and people are out raged? seems like a bit of a double standard ....
Yes, Lin enjoy increased attention because he is asian, but it is also possible one of the reasons why he was unrecognized for so long was because he was asian as well.
Racism in America is all about double standards. It's infuriating sometimes.
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
i agree, the reason he is hyped up is because he is asian american, Kobe does it every night .... then they make ice cream and people are out raged? seems like a bit of a double standard ....
Yes, Lin enjoy increased attention because he is asian, but it is also possible one of the reasons why he was unrecognized for so long was because he was asian as well.
Racism in America is all about double standards. It's infuriating sometimes.
Well, the media, too careful with their steps to begin with, tend to "out-think" themselves. And thus commit the sin they were set on avoiding.
They're like, "Oops, no one cared about this guy? Was it because he has no meaningful history? Oh shit, he's asian too? Are we all racist? Quick, let's milk this fucker alive and absolve ourselves!"
That's one of the elements anyway. "Chink in the armor..." Fortune cookie ice cream. Someone always fucks up. Guaranteed.
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
Indeed. A new ice cream flavor quickly "created" to cash in on the newest sports dead-beaten horse just reminds us that the ultimate goal all the powers that be is to distract us from this sad-sack world and fallen country, and make a profit at the same time.
Play really good in 8 games and get your own ice cream flavor? I got good grades for a few consecutive years... can I have a free frozen yogurt please?
Clearly this is a reasonable conclusion to draw from this interpretation.
Hahahaha.
On a far more important note, fortune cookies in the ice cream? That sounds pretty crappy. They should have just asked Jeremy Lin what his favorite combination of "actual" ice cream flavors/ toppings are, and then just released it as Jeremy Lin's Official Ice Cream Combination (or whatever).
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
i agree, the reason he is hyped up is because he is asian american, Kobe does it every night .... then they make ice cream and people are out raged? seems like a bit of a double standard ....
It's not one, especially since fortune cookies aren't even Chinese. The best thing they could've done is just asked Lin what his favorite flavors/candies are.
Maybe he means the double standard of Lin having an ice cream and not Kobe? Which is a fair argument, but you still don't use something dumb like fortune cookies.
This is a perfect example of people taking things way out of proportion.
i agree, the reason he is hyped up is because he is asian american, Kobe does it every night .... then they make ice cream and people are out raged? seems like a bit of a double standard ....
The perceived double standard is only due to your flawed conclusion that fortune cookies and Asian Americans are linked interchangeably. The thing is that most Asians or Asian Americans don't even eat fortune cookies and consider them a silly superstition and marketing tool. More importantly, people hate being stereotyped, especially being associated to something like a fortune cookie.
he'll still have some good games, but bad to mediocre games are going to become more common for him especially if the refs don't give him calls when he drives into the paint which is what has been happening lately as linsanity has been dieing down
I honestly think there is more pressure on Lin now that Melo and A'mare are back in the lineup. Expectations were low when it was Lin and Friends and they were on their run. With Melo and A'mare back, expectations are much higher since the Knicks are back in the playoff picture and how the Knicks look as a team on paper.
I wouldn't be surprised as the season moves along that Baron and Lin's minutes become more and more equal and Baron eventually becomes the starter assuming his back gets to 100% especially if the Knicks don't collapse and are in the playoff hunt. Lin just fits better with the makeup of the second unit + Chandler and he'll probably face less defensive pressure against the other team's bench.
I think it's too much to say he's been figuredo ut, considering his 2 recent bad games were against 2 of the better defensive teams in the league. Look at what he did to the Cavs in between those 2 games, pretty damn good
What the knicks need to stop doing is running iso's for melo, give it to him on the low post or get him in pick and rolls, melo is doing terrible in iso situatinos this season
Just as Lin is making people better, Amare and Carmelo not sucking will make his life easier too. Unfortunately, Amare and Carmelo have a difficult time not sucking these days.
The team seems much worse with those two back. Nobody cared who took how many shots when they were out, and the Knicks were winning. Now Amare and Melo have to get theirs, and New York is a mediocre team once again.
melo is having a hard time adjusting running the wing and lin isn't doing so hot either (turnovers). i thought the team would get better with melo but boy was I wrong. i hope antoni can fix it.
Teams have studied Lin and the Knicks and have adjusted. I'm looking forwards to how he plays next year after getting an entire off-season to work on the weaknesses that have now been brought to light. Too bad the Knicks's have so much payroll room locked up, and on top of that, AFAIK, a number of the important bench players who have really stepped up have their contracts expiring this year.
On March 08 2012 04:33 Golgotha wrote: melo is having a hard time adjusting running the wing and lin isn't doing so hot either (turnovers). i thought the team would get better with melo but boy was I wrong. i hope antoni can fix it.
On March 08 2012 04:33 Golgotha wrote: melo is having a hard time adjusting running the wing and lin isn't doing so hot either (turnovers). i thought the team would get better with melo but boy was I wrong. i hope antoni can fix it.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
lol seriously. i think they need to bring in the zen master to control melo and bring the rest of the team together.
On February 15 2012 18:51 bucckevin wrote: Jibba, what do you have against JLin? Every single one of your post has something negative to say about JLin... Why are you still doubting? 6 games in a row buddy!
I dont think hes is doubting so much as erring on the side of caution. At the moment the kid is a sensation and all credit to him, but theres been lots of players who have achieved performed like he has over periods and faded, the only difference was they didnt have "stories" or "ethnicity" to back their hype.
If you look closer alot of the things he is able to do come about from people underestimating him which is silly hes done it 6 games in a row, hes obviously good enough, strong on the drive, not lightning fast but deceptively enough and hes riding on the biggest confidence of his life which means he can make the clutch play. Additionally the schedule is so heavy teams just dont prepare like they usually can, defense in general is atrocious really. The stats will tell you that dont take my word for it.
He isnt particularly superior in any particular department but hes above average at everything (cept maybe distribution) which is great dont get me wrong. what needs to be seen is how he does with greater exposure to him and teams tighten up in the playoffs (provided and hopefully if the knicks get there) wether he can keep it up. I personally am starting to believe and I would like to but im still a bit iffy considering the quality of opponent it hasnt exactly been \the best of defenses in a below par defensive season. And now the bullseye is on him it makes a massive difference once teams have extensive film to work with.
They had some close losses to the Bulls and Celtics with Melo and Amare and he didnt get anyyyy game time (what like 6 mins?) This was right before LinSanity began. If they hadnt gotten hurt Im sure 90 percent of the people here wouldnt know who he is. But thats life you take your chances when you get them so no foul there either.
Now how he works with them remains to be seen aswell. It may work well, it may not. I dont see him as a past first pg contrary to what people have been saying and he wont get the same touches either. (a view that I am simply echoing at this point) but his ability to drive and the need for help D (against most teams anyway at the moment) also means if his passing is good enough there will be passes to be made. People have short memories though so if he fades he fades and if he doesnt gratz we got a star. The knicks could use a good season.
Funny thing is im pretty much summing whatevers probably already been said. I mean its crazy, if you look at the first few posts in this thread no ones giving him a nickels worth of a chance. Full 180 after 6 games against less than quality opposition is to quick.
edit: fixed the poor choice of words, edit: Also yea the three was the right call, he clearly has the range and he was being shown to much.
Just as I thought, as soon as free agency kicked in and March Madness kicked off, Lin is off the media's radar. It's really even worse for a viewer now, because they now just talk about Peyton Manning for four hours straight when it's obvious no one has any fucking idea where he's going
The problem is with Amare and Carmelo, and also with MDA for not having the balls to stand up to his stars. MDA will not hold them accountable when they play bad defense.
Lin's high TO is contributed by STAT's messing up the receiving ball. Did you guys not notice how Lin would change up his game - he would force passes and try to assist more when the two stars came back? That's what's killing our offense. Melo might put up high points, but if you look carefully, he has low % rate. And he demands the ball 20 times a quarter or else he puts up an attitude. There's also information that Melo is refusing to follow up on MDA's plays because he doesn't like how he's not the main scorer in those plays.
Before these two "stars" came back, the Knicks were having a hot streak. Lin was playing offensive-PG like Rose, but he was the driving force of the Knicks offense. Despite the high TO, he was leading the offense. With those 2 back in the picture, Lin has forced to take a passive stance and force passes that are most of the times, forced.
And let's not even get started on Amare + Melo's defense. It's ridiculous.
people saying antoni is gonna get the boot. imo melo should get the boot *gasp*
yea i said it. even before the lin days and when it was just melo the knicks were nothing. then melo dropped out and lin came in...lin rocked. now melo back and knicks return to shit. does anyone else not see this?
I never valued Carmelo as much as Wade or Lebron, even when Carmelo was at the top of scoring in the league (along with another: Allen Iverson). Wade and Lebron were always a step up.
On March 11 2012 04:11 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just as I thought, as soon as free agency kicked in and March Madness kicked off, Lin is off the media's radar. It's really even worse for a viewer now, because they now just talk about Peyton Manning for four hours straight when it's obvious no one has any fucking idea where he's going
So, since Woodson's come back, Lin's actually looked even better. Not quite as much raw production, but much more controlled, great pick and roll spacing with melo. At this point, he's answered all the questions about whether he can play with Melo and Amar'e, or whether he can thrive outside of D'antoni's syetm. Since becoming a starter, Lin's averaging 19 ppg and 8 apg, and is in the top 10 for PER among point guards. Considering he's a 23 year old 2nd year player, and that PG is by far the most stacked position in the league, that's pretty damn good.
Good lord, did this thread actually start back in Oct. 2011?! And here I thought I was the resident prognosticator of this site.
Funny how the mood of the thread ebbs and flows from extremes - one moment a hall of famer in the making, next a smoke amd mirrors fraudster who's now been exposed for sure.
Time will tell JLin's ultimate place in the scheme of things, but for me it's clear he's at least a deserving NBA starter. Maybe even so far as to say an above average NBA starter (but not an all-star). And that's more than people thought not two months ago. Any debate about this is straight up pigheadedness.
He's still pretty big in NY media. Not quite Linsanity, but that sort of hype was bound to die down soon. Rest of world has moved on to the next Big Story. It's a sad testament to the state of our civilization.
On March 26 2012 13:57 mensrea wrote: He's still pretty big in NY media. Not quite Linsanity, but that sort of hype was bound to die down soon. Rest of world has moved on to the next Big Story. It's a sad testament to the state of our civilization.