Quake Champions is an upcoming arena first person shooter with the intent of reviving the genre. It has the full backing of bethesda and is aiming to become a relevant esport. It features all the quake classic guns: super shotgun, rocket launcher, nailgun, lightning gun, and railgun. Gameplay differs from former iterations by having champion powers. Every hero will have a unique power. A few examples that we know so far are a teleport ability, a charge, or even gaining air control like QW/CPMA style.
The two competitive gamemodes are duel(1v1) and sacrifice(4v4). In duel you play a best of three rounds. You choose 3 different champions before a match starts. When a champion dies he/she cannot be used for the rest of the round. When you lose all your champions you lose the round.
I read somewhere that you can play without classes if you want. From the unlisted video, my first impression is that the ability she have should have much lower duration.
Iam expecting matchmaking queue 1v1 mode. Just matchmaking initself would make me buy the game instantly probably. Hopefully they include rocket arena mode from quake 3, and than maybe even tweakable items so its more about duels
It will have matchmaking, that's a given. And yeah, Willits said that there will be an option to play with "classic" ruleset (i.e. q3/ql one) without abilities and stuff, but what's the point in adding heroes to the game in the first place then? Imo, everyone should be *forced* to play the same thing.
Agree, i hope they can make these abilties balanced and fair and than people play this in MM. To not split community. Anyway i hope they add some movement in the air in this quake. Dont think that has been in previous ones? Atleast some A+D movements while in air.
On March 09 2017 02:14 Foxxan wrote: I read somewhere that you can play without classes if you want. From the unlisted video, my first impression is that the ability she have should have much lower duration.
Iam expecting matchmaking queue 1v1 mode. Just matchmaking initself would make me buy the game instantly probably. Hopefully they include rocket arena mode from quake 3, and than maybe even tweakable items so its more about duels
Lets hope it will have a big enough player base for a match making.
I really liked Quake Live but I can't see the Quake format working well with characters and abilities and cooldowns. One of the best things about Quake is that you load into a game 100% equal. idk, different characters and abilities just turn me off on principle for the franchise. I hope its good though. I signed up for the beta, hopefully I can get a key and be proven wrong!
Seems like quake champions is damned no matter what it tries to do compared to quake 3. I guess it could go the dota 2 route which was to copy paste dota 1 with some shiny new graphics.
Champions powers sound a bit hit or miss. I'd love to see players maining some characters and forming unique play styles and complicating the situational map control even further, but it sure has trouble written all over it.
It could be interesting if various characters for example have a bit different movement speeds and make better use of some weapons/powerups than others so that map specific strategy varies on depending on the matchup. Likely it's nightmarish to balance though, but maybe some kind of smart pick/ban system can bring some stability to it.
The Nyx's ghost walk seems like a pretty lame thing in the longer run though. There's potential for so many cheap kills and escapes with invisiblity in Quake gameplay. Maybe it'll work in a team game, but from 1 on 1 perspective an invisible assassin doesn't seem that much fun.
I like different stats deponding on which class. Would maybe like to see different use with weapons as well.. Not sure how though.
But for abilities to work they cant feel "unfair" or "abuseable". They should be about skill but still differ in how you play against specific classes.
Dont like cooldown based skills though, i found that to be really bad in games. Rather resource of some kind. Cool part is that items contribute to the these class skills on maps, so that can add some sort of strategy.
Really hope some items arent to powerful aswell, maps should add strategy but also not be to dominant.
Everyone is complaining about classes, most want some air control, but nobody plays reflex or any of the other cpma/q3 like games or even ut like games. I for one look forward to Quake Champions and don't hate the look of the game so far. Visibility could use some work, maybe decrease gibs. Hope the f2p model doesn't invite too many hackers and the hats don't look too ugly/intrusive.
I registered on 2 e-mails and don't mind sharing my account with some trustworthy TL guys. I also expect buyers to get early access soon.
I would also be willing to share codes if I get an extra. Currently have 5 accounts signed up. Abilities seem to be quite powerful. Worried about that. The team mode they're trying to push doesn't seem compelling either. Guess just a thin layer above team death match.
dont see this game becoming big if its to similar or pretty much the same as existing quake games
The game needs more duel "feel", people want to use their "skill" towards one another. If the opponent always gets the red armor and get an advantage like that it will ruin stuff, if you die to fast it will not have the feel aswell.
just adding some abilities for classes wont do it unless those abilities are meant to be used reactionary to dodge an incoming rocket or whatnot or something like it, while not feeling OP or unfair.
But abilities or not, a game like this would need something more than we are seeing. Like some weapon with utility to be used as tactic, some survival weapons aswell perhaps.
Looks very similar to existing quake games, i havent seen any new weapon even? Its fast paced, thats good but i really think i am right with what i wrote above.
Well I beg to differ that playing around items isn't a skill. It really adds an interesting layer on good combat mechanics.
I think this will be partially addressed by their focus on team game modes rather than duel. Presumably with teams there will be less items overall to control and more of a focus on these control points. More action, less focus on items. Since you're able to spawn with decent weapons it should take some focus away on collecting weapons as well. We'll see.
I never said it isnt a skill but its a different skill. Its more about strategy and decision making when to run and when to fight. That revolves more about the map. The duel part should be the focus, and more things to set someone apart while more skills such as reactionbased stuff should be in a game like this.
On March 12 2017 16:32 Foxxan wrote: I never said it isnt a skill but its a different skill. Its more about strategy and decision making when to run and when to fight. That revolves more about the map. The duel part should be the focus, and more things to set someone apart while more skills such as reactionbased stuff should be in a game like this.
But aiming is already very important in quake.
Also, items in quake add so much more depth to positioning, even within a fight.
On March 12 2017 16:32 Foxxan wrote: I never said it isnt a skill but its a different skill. Its more about strategy and decision making when to run and when to fight. That revolves more about the map. The duel part should be the focus, and more things to set someone apart while more skills such as reactionbased stuff should be in a game like this.
But aiming is already very important in quake.
Also, items in quake add so much more depth to positioning, even within a fight.
Yep i know. I still dont understand what your point is. I never said to remove items. I never mentioned that aiming isnt a skill.
On March 12 2017 16:32 Foxxan wrote: I never said it isnt a skill but its a different skill. Its more about strategy and decision making when to run and when to fight. That revolves more about the map. The duel part should be the focus, and more things to set someone apart while more skills such as reactionbased stuff should be in a game like this.
But aiming is already very important in quake.
Also, items in quake add so much more depth to positioning, even within a fight.
Yep i know. I still dont understand what your point is. I never said to remove items. I never mentioned that aiming isnt a skill.
On March 09 2017 08:44 KingDime wrote: Seems like quake champions is damned no matter what it tries to do compared to quake 3. I guess it could go the dota 2 route which was to copy paste dota 1 with some shiny new graphics.
And then have such a gigantic identity crisis that they would shed everything that made their players play their original game and instead turn it into a clone of their competition. I guess QC is on the right path.
Well something about classes like this is it kinda opens up some hidden potential gem. Like perhaps they can in the future change how some character jumps, or have different weapons etc, and then perhaps in a 1v1 format they have so you must play that class to really change how quake 1v1 is played.
So some classes can indirectly add to the "duel"(surviving longer, able to dodge incoming fast projectiles etc)
On March 09 2017 08:44 KingDime wrote: Seems like quake champions is damned no matter what it tries to do compared to quake 3. I guess it could go the dota 2 route which was to copy paste dota 1 with some shiny new graphics.
And then have such a gigantic identity crisis that they would shed everything that made their players play their original game and instead turn it into a clone of their competition. I guess QC is on the right path.
I would say they have not done that. They have changed things to appeal to those demographics while keeping the core things more or less the same. Dota has always "stolen" stuff that worked well and implemented them in a way that fits. The version of Dota played was called Allstars because it took all the best heroes from the other Dota version and won on that. I would say it has continued its tradition.
As for actual Quake. Not sure the genre will ever be one of the biggest again. They would need to do a team play focused mode to appeal to a bigger demographic, as far as I know all the biggest FPS games are team based now a days. So just as for Starcraft one has to accept enough players for an E-sport scene and good matchmaking in a fun package. Which is enough for a player.
A good 1v1 game could be one of the biggest for sure, but to say that one needs to do a teamgame nowadays to become big is pure speculation. Not one single good 1v1 game, literally exists.
I understand, why people against perks and such but there is already a game for many years(classic quake). The new one should have some new quirks on it to compete with the other games in the market. I'll probably buy that if it is not overly priced.
I love Q3 1v1 I think its the best FPS (though I still love CS^^ 1.6 ), I think rocket launcher is too dominant in it though. Dont know what to think of QC dont think I will be able to play it due to the fancy graphics requiring a newer PC... will keep looking a bit. agree with foxxan would love to see new great 1v1 FPS
On March 09 2017 01:29 porkRaven wrote: Probably that you're too young? maybe even too old and you can't handle the SPEED and INTENSITY.
Uhh that's all you can come up with? If I'm interested in an old-ass game like this I don't think im too young. Btw the registeration still doesn't work.
Thanks for the appropriate and helpful answer anyway.
also, lol at all this discussion if this game is going to be good or fail. Can we just wait for it to come out and try it first?
There's a lack of an AAA arena-based shooter atm. Quake has always been around, but it it really isn't right now. I know there are a lot of players, myself included, who would jump on this game like a virgin onto the redlight district in Amsterdam, just because It's quake.
The game looks fine to me. It's just that they need to get everything else around the game to be interesting (and addicting) on its own. Ladders, game modes that attract the masses, items (are they doing this?) and a proper elo system. QL failed in pretty much all of that.
Any thoughts about the weapons? So far it's all iconic Quake stuff with rocket launchers and railguns. At least the website doesn't confirm plasma gun or grenade launcher at this point.
Any interesting ideas what could be added to the classic Quake arsenal?
On March 16 2017 07:13 Bacillus wrote: Any thoughts about the weapons? So far it's all iconic Quake stuff with rocket launchers and railguns. At least the website doesn't confirm plasma gun or grenade launcher at this point.
Any interesting ideas what could be added to the classic Quake arsenal?
i think the super nailgun is basically the plasma gun.
Yeah a PG with high fire rate. I do like having more area denial in both the slow fire high damage PG and grenades. Probably not fun weapons for people.
i'm a huge quake noob but i still love playing FFA, duel, and TDM/freeze tag with good players. that said, when quake live went "noob" and added dumb "features" i quit until they allowed servers to host legacy versions.. i'm really hoping that quake champions doesn't cater to noobs, because some of the noobs want to actually play the same game that good people play!
Really hope I get into this. Overwatch is fun and all, but I miss the fast pace of Quake and Tribes. Hopefully the non-duel game modes are a lot of fun as well.
I don't mind the champion powers or the new stuff I've been seeing. I really think that no matter what the devs did, people would complain that it isn't "their" Quake. Hopefully the game will at least help revive the genre; god knows UT4 isn't gonna do that any time soon. I just want to watch people like Rapha be amazing. The spectacle of Quake pros being godlike is just insanely good.
On March 30 2017 23:26 Endymion wrote: i'm a huge quake noob but i still love playing FFA, duel, and TDM/freeze tag with good players. that said, when quake live went "noob" and added dumb "features" i quit until they allowed servers to host legacy versions.. i'm really hoping that quake champions doesn't cater to noobs, because some of the noobs want to actually play the same game that good people play!
On March 30 2017 23:26 Endymion wrote: i'm a huge quake noob but i still love playing FFA, duel, and TDM/freeze tag with good players. that said, when quake live went "noob" and added dumb "features" i quit until they allowed servers to host legacy versions.. i'm really hoping that quake champions doesn't cater to noobs, because some of the noobs want to actually play the same game that good people play!
Can you name examples of going "noob"?
Mostly loadouts I would imagine. Or maybe spawning people with x amount of armor at the start.
This is most definitely raw but still from a potato. Still better than any trailer yet.
Not really fan of a FPS game with dota-like abilities, but if I'm gonna give it a shot, it will be with Quake Champions. OW looks dumb from the start. I just hope they have focus on it being a FPS, and tone down the power and impact of ability usages. I think that could end up good.
On March 30 2017 23:26 Endymion wrote: i'm a huge quake noob but i still love playing FFA, duel, and TDM/freeze tag with good players. that said, when quake live went "noob" and added dumb "features" i quit until they allowed servers to host legacy versions.. i'm really hoping that quake champions doesn't cater to noobs, because some of the noobs want to actually play the same game that good people play!
Can you name examples of going "noob"?
Mostly loadouts I would imagine. Or maybe spawning people with x amount of armor at the start.
On March 30 2017 23:26 Endymion wrote: i'm a huge quake noob but i still love playing FFA, duel, and TDM/freeze tag with good players. that said, when quake live went "noob" and added dumb "features" i quit until they allowed servers to host legacy versions.. i'm really hoping that quake champions doesn't cater to noobs, because some of the noobs want to actually play the same game that good people play!
Can you name examples of going "noob"?
with regard to ql: auto bhopping and loadouts very nearly killed the game for me on a casual level.
On March 30 2017 23:26 Endymion wrote: i'm a huge quake noob but i still love playing FFA, duel, and TDM/freeze tag with good players. that said, when quake live went "noob" and added dumb "features" i quit until they allowed servers to host legacy versions.. i'm really hoping that quake champions doesn't cater to noobs, because some of the noobs want to actually play the same game that good people play!
Can you name examples of going "noob"?
Mostly loadouts I would imagine. Or maybe spawning people with x amount of armor at the start.
This is most definitely raw but still from a potato. Still better than any trailer yet.
Well, this video is from zero4, one of the best (if not the best) quake3 Player and new ids esport-manager.
His movement didn't look that great nor his aim. Not doubting his ability as a player but I'm not guessing he is super familiar with cpma style physics. I could be completely wrong. Could just be the way anarki works.
Man, it's been so long since I've had fun playing an arena-fps like Quake.
I played a lot of Xonotic and a little bit of Warsow, but those games are so incredibly dead, and I'm so incredibly rusty that I can't put up a good fight, heh.
Here's to hoping there will be some sort of linux support situation going on with Quake Champions, I would love to revisit one of the less-loved game genres.
On April 07 2017 22:01 porkRaven wrote: I certainly despise all of those who got keys. Especially if you don't play that much . Hope I get in next wave or get a freebie this one.
There's actually nothing to play so far. Went from login problems stright into maintenance.
On April 07 2017 22:01 porkRaven wrote: I certainly despise all of those who got keys. Especially if you don't play that much . Hope I get in next wave or get a freebie this one.
There's actually nothing to play so far. Went from login problems stright into maintenance.
A match (map) is split up into best of three rounds. At the start of the match each player picks three different champions. A round lasts until one player has lost all three of his champion picks. After you die you can freely pick from your remaining two or one champions and respawn into the ongoing game. After a round ends (one player has lost all three champions) the map / pickups get reset. The winner is the player to first win 2 rounds.
Video accompanying the article. Duel starts around 6 minutes.
This game is fuuuuuuuuun. I was a bit sceptical at first but this is so much more fun than overwatch. Finally I can frag again without anyone else to rely on.
If there is a ranked matchmaking mode for the 1v1, or even team games, i am SO IN!!! Climbing the quake ladder sounds pretty awesome to me, so i hope they are considering it.
A match (map) is split up into best of three rounds. At the start of the match each player picks three different champions. A round lasts until one player has lost all three of his champion picks. After you die you can freely pick from your remaining two or one champions and respawn into the ongoing game. After a round ends (one player has lost all three champions) the map / pickups get reset. The winner is the player to first win 2 rounds.
Video accompanying the article. Duel starts around 6 minutes.
A match (map) is split up into best of three rounds. At the start of the match each player picks three different champions. A round lasts until one player has lost all three of his champion picks. After you die you can freely pick from your remaining two or one champions and respawn into the ongoing game. After a round ends (one player has lost all three champions) the map / pickups get reset. The winner is the player to first win 2 rounds.
A match (map) is split up into best of three rounds. At the start of the match each player picks three different champions. A round lasts until one player has lost all three of his champion picks. After you die you can freely pick from your remaining two or one champions and respawn into the ongoing game. After a round ends (one player has lost all three champions) the map / pickups get reset. The winner is the player to first win 2 rounds.
It was clear from the beginning that QC will evolve around heroes. If we accept that fact for a moment, what's bad about the duelling system? It sounds like it's making the best out of the hero system.
A match (map) is split up into best of three rounds. At the start of the match each player picks three different champions. A round lasts until one player has lost all three of his champion picks. After you die you can freely pick from your remaining two or one champions and respawn into the ongoing game. After a round ends (one player has lost all three champions) the map / pickups get reset. The winner is the player to first win 2 rounds.
It was clear from the beginning that QC will evolve around heroes. If we accept that fact for a moment, what's bad about the duelling system? It sounds like it's making the best out of the hero system.
Duel is a game where you need to pick up weapons. That means, when you die, there's a very high chance you'll die again. and again and again. and again. because the enemy has a gear advantage. Having basically a 3 frag limit is pretty preposterous.
The real question is why couldn't they keep it as it always was. It would've been fine with the hero system aswell.
Ah yea, I must have overlooked the sentence with the 3 frag limit. Well, that is weird indeed.
You argue that the 3 frag limit will make duels more unforgiving, but I think the opposite is true. This system will allow for much easier comebacks, which makes duels more forgiving and casual.
Meh, I'm fine with the concept... but I can see how this will piss off traditional Quake players. (I'm personally disappointed about QC not being moddable. So I won't get to play my favourite gamemodes, which are defrag and team fortress )
how does it allow much easier comebacks? It pretty much completely obliterates any chance for a comeback because of the things i mentioned in the previous post.
Getting a kill in a q3 duel pretty much always means you're getting the next 4-5 at least aswell, because your gear is just completely superior to the vanilla guy dead guy respawning.
Also duels are definitely not the part of the game to be "forgiving and casual" duels are the epitome of competitiveness in Quake.
Much love to you for liking defrag though, I'm the same way. But don't worry, defrag always finds a way.
I think this system is more forgiving, because your gear resets after 3 frags. Both players are on equal footing again, preventing any snowballing.
That being said, playing duels from behind was actually kinda fun and a big part of the game. It was exciting to watch pros trying to catch up and make comebacks.
On April 21 2017 22:46 beg wrote: I think this system is more forgiving, because your gear resets after 3 frags. Both players are on equal footing again, preventing any snowballing.
That being said, playing duels from behind was actually kinda fun and a big part of the game. It was exciting to watch pros trying to catch up and make comebacks.
it literally means that you pretty much only need to actually kill the enemy 2 times to win the entire duel. That's terrible imo.
On April 21 2017 22:46 beg wrote: I think this system is more forgiving, because your gear resets after 3 frags. Both players are on equal footing again, preventing any snowballing.
That being said, playing duels from behind was actually kinda fun and a big part of the game. It was exciting to watch pros trying to catch up and make comebacks.
it literally means that you pretty much only need to actually kill the enemy 2 times to win the entire duel. That's terrible imo.
Killing the enemy 2 times will only win you a round. You need to win "best of 3" to win the whole match.
On April 21 2017 22:46 beg wrote: I think this system is more forgiving, because your gear resets after 3 frags. Both players are on equal footing again, preventing any snowballing.
That being said, playing duels from behind was actually kinda fun and a big part of the game. It was exciting to watch pros trying to catch up and make comebacks.
it literally means that you pretty much only need to actually kill the enemy 2 times to win the entire duel. That's terrible imo.
Killing the enemy 2 times will only win you a round. You need to win "best of 3" to win the whole match.
what I mean is you kill a person once ,then snowball the other 2 frags. then it resets, and you do it again. So overall you only need to "Actually" kill him twice.
I'll be honest, I've played no more than a dozen hours of Quake 3 arena a couple years ago and watched maybe the top 3 of a couple tournaments. But the duel changes sound wack as fuck. Even in that brief experience it was some of the most entertaining and memorable competitive gameplay I've ever watched. The speed and momentum and strategy and raw slugfest of duel was so mesmerizing and hype. Why change the one format that has kept the game alive (albeit not a very big scene) for so long when there are a dozen other game modes you could tinker with to make it more accessible to newcomers or people that want to play with friends/teams or whatever...
I think for comeback potential it might be easier to come back even in the 3 hero champion limit simply because it is more difficult to stack up and one rail can equalize stacks.
Imagine getting one bad spawn with a 75hp/25armor value champ and getting zoomed rail once. Fuck I'd be pissed.
First impressions: This game is actually legit good. Feels like Quake. The champions are interesting mostly because of the variety of mechanics. It's got that almost Quake 3 like smoothness which you can't find in any modern games on hardware that's a couple years old. It's fun and frustrating and I still dominate if I'm on my game. :D
My concerns centre around the potentially small player base, the new game modes, and the sudden removal of so many useful console/config options.
Overall I am pleasantly surprised and excited. StarCraft Remastered + Quake Champions = <3
On April 22 2017 01:31 Duka08 wrote: I'll be honest, I've played no more than a dozen hours of Quake 3 arena a couple years ago and watched maybe the top 3 of a couple tournaments. But the duel changes sound wack as fuck. Even in that brief experience it was some of the most entertaining and memorable competitive gameplay I've ever watched. The speed and momentum and strategy and raw slugfest of duel was so mesmerizing and hype. Why change the one format that has kept the game alive (albeit not a very big scene) for so long when there are a dozen other game modes you could tinker with to make it more accessible to newcomers or people that want to play with friends/teams or whatever...
It obviously depends a lot on the map played, but I feel some matchups played in very sterile ways in the longer run and could end up very anticlimatic control victories without much visible contest between the players and only the clock running donw forcing more aggressive plays. Obviously there's a lot going on under the surface, but it still wasn't a particularly good spectator game for an uneducated or casual viewer.
I don't think I'm the person to judge specific duel changes, but I do believe the game could be more spectator friendly and benefit from it greatly.
The fundamental core of this game is definitely very fun. Whether it succeeds as a game with a large playerbase depends on whether they can create a teamgame-mode that more "casual" players can enjoy to play over a long period.
Because I don't think duels and deatmatch is what will keep 100,000s of players playing the game on an active basis.
I'd like to think a proper matchmaking is must-have.
Also, different champions and their characteristics seem like a very natural development towards more team based gameplay. I'm not sure how it would all come together in a smart way, but I'm fairly sure they've put quite a bit thought into potential team aspects.
On April 27 2017 16:35 Bacillus wrote: I'd like to think a proper matchmaking is must-have.
Also, different champions and their characteristics seem like a very natural development towards more team based gameplay. I'm not sure how it would all come together in a smart way, but I'm fairly sure they've put quite a bit thought into potential team aspects.
Wait a few months and they'll include a "push the payload" mode.
On April 27 2017 22:19 Pjorren wrote: How nice I got a beta key. Shame that QL is P2Play now, can't access my old config haha .
This will be fun! Servers start in 40 min!
Why no Grenade launcher.... ;(
Friendly reminder to people in the closed beta that you are under NDA. Talking about the game, including talking about being in the beta is a violation of the agreement you signed when you installed the game.
On April 27 2017 22:19 Pjorren wrote: How nice I got a beta key. Shame that QL is P2Play now, can't access my old config haha .
This will be fun! Servers start in 40 min!
Why no Grenade launcher.... ;(
Friendly reminder to people in the closed beta that you are under NDA. Talking about the game, including talking about being in the beta is a violation of the agreement you signed when you installed the game.
All I wish for in a team shooter is that Freeze tag would be a well established (and even competitive) game mode, a game mode I've learnt to play in Q3A 1.16. Too bad there was never any interest in it other than the "local" servers.
Watching Cypher play anything Quake and i am a happy man. The duel seems really bad for anything competitive but it is an easy way for people to get into it and play a few games. Playing a 10 minute game where you are killed in spawns while your enemy runs the map and you have no idea what is going on is a guaranteed way for people to never try duel again.
On May 13 2017 01:13 Daray wrote: Watching Cypher play anything Quake and i am a happy man. The duel seems really bad for anything competitive but it is an easy way for people to get into it and play a few games. Playing a 10 minute game where you are killed in spawns while your enemy runs the map and you have no idea what is going on is a guaranteed way for people to never try duel again.
Haha I used to play Clan arena and Free for all all the time in QL but only tried Duel once cause it was so damn hard .
The whole trueskill matchmaker thing was an evolution that happened through consoles and annoyed me because it kills so much feeling of community that I used to have with old Quake games (and going all the way through to TF2, I suppose, though I never played that game.)
I miss people running their own servers with their own rules.
Yo. So, the thing is I received a beta key, the beta test period begins May 12th at 10:00AM EDT and runs until May 21st at 4:00PM EDT. However, I can't take part in this. I want to share the key and the bethesda.net account I made. Please, whoever wants to play the game, pm me and I will give you the details. I will give the key to the first guy that sends me pm. If I don't forget to, I will edit this post when I do so no more people PM me... If I forget, well then, I am a retard sometimes so, yeah... I really badly wanted to play but my time is arranged in other things. I want someone serious to have the key and play the shit out of this beta. Quake brings torrents of fond memories to me and I will play the complete game for sure.
On May 13 2017 11:05 RubickPicker wrote: So is there a server browser in this thing?
The whole trueskill matchmaker thing was an evolution that happened through consoles and annoyed me because it kills so much feeling of community that I used to have with old Quake games (and going all the way through to TF2, I suppose, though I never played that game.)
I miss people running their own servers with their own rules.
Sadly i think that era of gaming is gone, or mostly gone. I agree it used to be amazing and it had a real sense of community. Not to mention all the IRC shenanigans :D.
Everyone wants their fancy matchmaking nowdays which totally kills the community feeling.
1v1 seems kind of broken, someone can just take a 1 kill lead, then just hide for the rest of the round. The levels are big enough to where i have been unable to find someone who is hiding in some random corner, which in turn loses me the game. very frustrating, think ill stick to TDM.
On May 14 2017 00:51 rebuffering wrote: 1v1 seems kind of broken, someone can just take a 1 kill lead, then just hide for the rest of the round. The levels are big enough to where i have been unable to find someone who is hiding in some random corner, which in turn loses me the game. very frustrating, think ill stick to TDM.
If you're new to quake, Duel is extremely difficult
For a start you need to learn to be able to move really fast around the map - top players know all the maps and timings inside out, as well as being able to strafejump very efficiently around the map to get to the places they need to be
It's not a good mode to start off if you want to learn the game
idk about anyone else but i have super bad performance in QC, even playing at a 4:3 aspect ratio.. also, the game crashes whenever i change graphics settings? i'm assuming it's an isolated issue because all the streams look way better than how my game looks.. i can run the new doom maxed at like 200fps but i get 30fps and stuttering in QC..
from a gameplay perspective, the gunplay feels okay.. it just feels really cluttered when you kill someone or get an assist and all these awards/medals/experience points pop up.. minor complaint but definitely something i noticed (and an issue that i had with SC2 when it introduced an xp popup whenever you killed an enemy unit lol.
I haven't tried out many of the abilities yet, but it's pretty disorienting when enemies all have different HP pools/base speed/max acceleration speeds/hitbox sizes..
all-in-all, other than the technical issues that i faced, playing it just made me want to play quake 3 lol. for me personally the only thing that QC has on QL or Q3 is graphics maybe, but then again i also like the Q3 approach of just having walls be straight up primary colors on lowest settings. it just feels super noisy. also, it's full of unit barks be it the announcer or your player character spouting the same lines every 2 seconds
On May 14 2017 00:51 rebuffering wrote: 1v1 seems kind of broken, someone can just take a 1 kill lead, then just hide for the rest of the round. The levels are big enough to where i have been unable to find someone who is hiding in some random corner, which in turn loses me the game. very frustrating, think ill stick to TDM.
If you're new to quake, Duel is extremely difficult
For a start you need to learn to be able to move really fast around the map - top players know all the maps and timings inside out, as well as being able to strafejump very efficiently around the map to get to the places they need to be
It's not a good mode to start off if you want to learn the game
I understand 1v1 is hard, im fine with that, but someone can just frag you 1st, then hide in a corner for the rest of the round. Which is exactly what happend to me, got killed 1st, the dude was hiding somewhere on the map and i couldnt find him, lost the round. next round we play "straight up" and i win the round, we are now 1-1. Last round, he gets 1st frag, and starts hiding again, I can't find him, round is over, i lose the match 2-1. There's no skill required there, we were 1-1, then he found a corner where i couldnt see him, and won by waiting for 3 mins while i ran around trying to sniff him out.
I dont mind losing to someone who is better than me in a straight up 1v1, thats cool with me, but when its just abusing the big maps and how the rounds work, its a bunch of bullshit.
On May 14 2017 00:51 rebuffering wrote: 1v1 seems kind of broken, someone can just take a 1 kill lead, then just hide for the rest of the round. The levels are big enough to where i have been unable to find someone who is hiding in some random corner, which in turn loses me the game. very frustrating, think ill stick to TDM.
If you're new to quake, Duel is extremely difficult
For a start you need to learn to be able to move really fast around the map - top players know all the maps and timings inside out, as well as being able to strafejump very efficiently around the map to get to the places they need to be
It's not a good mode to start off if you want to learn the game
I understand 1v1 is hard, im fine with that, but someone can just frag you 1st, then hide in a corner for the rest of the round. Which is exactly what happend to me, got killed 1st, the dude was hiding somewhere on the map and i couldnt find him, lost the round. next round we play "straight up" and i win the round, we are now 1-1. Last round, he gets 1st frag, and starts hiding again, I can't find him, round is over, i lose the match 2-1. There's no skill required there, we were 1-1, then he found a corner where i couldnt see him, and won by waiting for 3 mins while i ran around trying to sniff him out.
I dont mind losing to someone who is better than me in a straight up 1v1, thats cool with me, but when its just abusing the big maps and how the rounds work, its a bunch of bullshit.
While that sounds like something really frustrating and cheesy to play against you will start to realize if you play around a bit more and learn more about rapid movement and map control these kind of issues you're describing kind of don't happen, like, at all.
Duel is a very fun but complex and difficult game mode to learn. TD and FFA are better for a more casual approach .
That being said, I really suck at Duel hehe.... Really miss Clan Arena. Pls Id, bring that back.
Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
Have not tried it. Does it have 1v1 matchmaking? I gues it doesnt, seems to relie on the teampart to much for that. I bet it has cooldown on abilities aswell? Oh well, iam not to fond of teamagames like that. But if it have no cooldowns on its abilities but instead a resource or something, i would maybe want to try it.
I mostly want a game which has a good 1v1 format/mode at its core.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
Have not tried it. Does it have 1v1 matchmaking? I gues it doesnt, seems to relie on the teampart to much for that. I bet it has cooldown on abilities aswell? Oh well, iam not to fond of teamagames like that. But if it have no cooldowns on its abilities but instead a resource or something, i would maybe want to try it.
I mostly want a game which has a good 1v1 format/mode at its core.
No it's like overwatch but higher TTK, supports aren't just health-bots and also a "kind-of" talent system like HOTS. Personally I thought it was relatively fun and had potential while I played it in the beta. As a consequence I preordered Overwatch, but quickly refunded it since I didn't like that game at all.
Got into the beta. Loving it! I'm god awful at FPS now but jumping around and throwing rockets everywhere is great fun.
Only issue for me is performance. Doesn't run very smooth at high settings, but it's that sporadic lag that's really crippling in a game this fast paced.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
Have not tried it. Does it have 1v1 matchmaking? I gues it doesnt, seems to relie on the teampart to much for that. I bet it has cooldown on abilities aswell? Oh well, iam not to fond of teamagames like that. But if it have no cooldowns on its abilities but instead a resource or something, i would maybe want to try it.
I mostly want a game which has a good 1v1 format/mode at its core.
No it's like overwatch but higher TTK, supports aren't just health-bots and also a "kind-of" talent system like HOTS. Personally I thought it was relatively fun and had potential while I played it in the beta. As a consequence I preordered Overwatch, but quickly refunded it since I didn't like that game at all.
Alright. I most likely wont try it. You like quake champion btw?
Was so happy to get the email that I got into the closed beta! Then checked the website and got another key just by going there. So happy and sad at the same time. :|
Game really does feel like a beta though. Doesn't feel smooth. Shots that "feel" like they should hit, often don't. The lack of menu options for customization(enemymodels, crosshair type, remove particle effects, etc) makes the game really tough to play also. The footsteps sounds are terrible. It's almost impossible to tell where exactly your oponent is via sound. All you can hear is "he is somewhere near" but still it often gives the illusion that he's way closer than he actually is.
Champions need work on them too. Some are just way too good, while some are absolutely worthless (Slash being complete shit, while Nyx is really good).
The cap on movement speed via strafejumping on everyone other than visor also sucks, I hope they get rid of it. Duel mode is a complete atrocity, and has former Q3 pro's raging at the screen. Very often because Nyx is too good in duel. Her invisibility is too much of an advantage in duels - lasts too long and is available too often, letting you turn any engagement in your favor, or if it isn't going in your favor, gives you a pretty much 100% guarantee of running away.
The hp ratios on heros also need work. some are way too squishy. (1 rail + a few shaft shots when you're fully stocked up shouldn't be enough to kill you no matter what your character is).
Another thing that blows my mind, is that, in duels, if you are at max hp/armor (which sometimes means you have 25 or 50 armor) and you walk on top of an armor item, you can't collect it. Meaning you have to actually hurt yourself to deny the item to the enemy. I have no idea why they don't let you pick it up. Item/map control should be rewarded, especially in duel. Oh, and of course this duel mode is a complete travesty in of itself, and should go. Please for the love of god, bring back just 10 min or something timelimit for the entire duel.
But yeah.. A beta is a beta, I'm just praying the finished game is better.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
Have not tried it. Does it have 1v1 matchmaking? I gues it doesnt, seems to relie on the teampart to much for that. I bet it has cooldown on abilities aswell? Oh well, iam not to fond of teamagames like that. But if it have no cooldowns on its abilities but instead a resource or something, i would maybe want to try it.
I mostly want a game which has a good 1v1 format/mode at its core.
No it's like overwatch but higher TTK, supports aren't just health-bots and also a "kind-of" talent system like HOTS. Personally I thought it was relatively fun and had potential while I played it in the beta. As a consequence I preordered Overwatch, but quickly refunded it since I didn't like that game at all.
Alright. I most likely wont try it. You like quake champion btw?
I guess I have a similar opinion as you. Not sure about the whole "control items while poking from a long distance"-thing. From watching prof 1v1 matches, the duel gameplay in Quake doesn't really appeal to me but I haven't really given it that much of a chance.
I think teamgames can be great though as long as they have strategic depth along with high carry potential.
On May 15 2017 15:31 abuse wrote: Was so happy to get the email that I got into the closed beta! Then checked the website and got another key just by going there. So happy and sad at the same time. :|
Game really does feel like a beta though. Doesn't feel smooth. Shots that "feel" like they should hit, often don't. The lack of menu options for customization(enemymodels, crosshair type, remove particle effects, etc) makes the game really tough to play also. The footsteps sounds are terrible. It's almost impossible to tell where exactly your oponent is via sound. All you can hear is "he is somewhere near" but still it often gives the illusion that he's way closer than he actually is.
Champions need work on them too. Some are just way too good, while some are absolutely worthless (Slash being complete shit, while Nyx is really good).
The cap on movement speed via strafejumping on everyone other than visor also sucks, I hope they get rid of it. Duel mode is a complete atrocity, and has former Q3 pro's raging at the screen. Very often because Nyx is too good in duel. Her invisibility is too much of an advantage in duels - lasts too long and is available too often, letting you turn any engagement in your favor, or if it isn't going in your favor, gives you a pretty much 100% guarantee of running away.
The hp ratios on heros also need work. some are way too squishy. (1 rail + a few shaft shots when you're fully stocked up shouldn't be enough to kill you no matter what your character is).
Another thing that blows my mind, is that, in duels, if you are at max hp/armor (which sometimes means you have 25 or 50 armor) and you walk on top of an armor item, you can't collect it. Meaning you have to actually hurt yourself to deny the item to the enemy. I have no idea why they don't let you pick it up. Item/map control should be rewarded, especially in duel. Oh, and of course this duel mode is a complete travesty in of itself, and should go. Please for the love of god, bring back just 10 min or something timelimit for the entire duel.
But yeah.. A beta is a beta, I'm just praying the finished game is better.
But it should be like that when you dont pick up armor. in some cases I hit one guy with the RL 5 times (i saw the dmg numbers, which I find really bad tbh) and he still was far from being dead. Some champions are not squishy enough or maybe the shots are not registering properly...
why on earth should it be so that you don't pick up armor? A huge part of the game is denying pickups for your opponent. Making it not possible is preposterous.
hitting someone 5 times with rockets and hitting them for 5x100 dmg hits are two different things though.
Nah, I ment hitting with the rail and finishing off with the lmg should be normal, not not picking up armor Yeah, there should be a simpler way to deny armor than hitting yourself I agree.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
Have not tried it. Does it have 1v1 matchmaking? I gues it doesnt, seems to relie on the teampart to much for that. I bet it has cooldown on abilities aswell? Oh well, iam not to fond of teamagames like that. But if it have no cooldowns on its abilities but instead a resource or something, i would maybe want to try it.
I mostly want a game which has a good 1v1 format/mode at its core.
No it's like overwatch but higher TTK, supports aren't just health-bots and also a "kind-of" talent system like HOTS. Personally I thought it was relatively fun and had potential while I played it in the beta. As a consequence I preordered Overwatch, but quickly refunded it since I didn't like that game at all.
Alright. I most likely wont try it. You like quake champion btw?
I guess I have a similar opinion as you. Not sure about the whole "control items while poking from a long distance"-thing. From watching prof 1v1 matches, the duel gameplay in Quake doesn't really appeal to me but I haven't really given it that much of a chance.
I think teamgames can be great though as long as they have strategic depth along with high carry potential.
It's all about using your weapons intelligently, mind gaming the opponent and incredible aim. I don't really like how duel is handled in quake champions atm though, but hey maybe it could be good.
I agree it should be normal, but not for cases when you are full on hp, picked up a mega, and have full armor. It basically means that with a squishier character you can play perfectly, control the entire map, but the enemy just needs 2 lucky hits with a railgun for you to die. That's too squishy imo. I'm not against having characters with different amounts of HP/Armor, but such differences, and such a small max value for some of the champs is too much.
People suggested that you have to download the whole game for each patch, is that true? Typically i would say there is no way, but after i closed the launcher expecting it to retsart the download where i left and it actually started from 0% again, i am not sure if that's so unrealistic. The launcher is terrible...
edit: tried to play it but every time the map is finished loading i lose connection to the server. Well :/
On May 16 2017 00:23 The_Red_Viper wrote: edit: tried to play it but every time the map is finished loading i lose connection to the server. Well :/
I had a similar issue first time I tried to play the game too. Game was nearly over by the time I finished loading (and my computer locked up for 5 minutes after I closed it). The issue wasn't present the next day.
On May 15 2017 00:32 Foxxan wrote: Everything ive said in this thread is coming to a reality. Damn, my gamedesign radar is fucking amazing. Not sure i have mentioned this yet, but i really wish they made changes so its encouraged to play other styles other than the "poke from far distance".
Perfect opportunity with quake champions. Either way, quake 3 feels like the better game which is very very sad. Either they make drastically changes over 4-8 weeks or the game will be doomed.
Have you tried paladins? In terms of having shorter range duels that's probably the closest in the FPS genre. However, basic movement speed is unfortunately quite low.
Have not tried it. Does it have 1v1 matchmaking? I gues it doesnt, seems to relie on the teampart to much for that. I bet it has cooldown on abilities aswell? Oh well, iam not to fond of teamagames like that. But if it have no cooldowns on its abilities but instead a resource or something, i would maybe want to try it.
I mostly want a game which has a good 1v1 format/mode at its core.
No it's like overwatch but higher TTK, supports aren't just health-bots and also a "kind-of" talent system like HOTS. Personally I thought it was relatively fun and had potential while I played it in the beta. As a consequence I preordered Overwatch, but quickly refunded it since I didn't like that game at all.
Alright. I most likely wont try it. You like quake champion btw?
I guess I have a similar opinion as you. Not sure about the whole "control items while poking from a long distance"-thing. From watching prof 1v1 matches, the duel gameplay in Quake doesn't really appeal to me but I haven't really given it that much of a chance.
I think teamgames can be great though as long as they have strategic depth along with high carry potential.
Alright. While you watch quake 3, you notice the keeping distance, not necesarrily super long distance while poking with railgun/rocket? Thats what i mean by that pretty much. Only move close when enemy is low or get a very good position ~
A better imaginary explanation, its a cat and mouse race with little actual duels.
Live stream tomorrow with developers of the game. Design talk is on the list. Lets see if they are happy with this poor product or if they will change things up so there are actually interractions and skill being used with the champion abilities, meanwhile making actually more gamestyles possible while making the champions have more specific gamestyles how they move but also in combat with their passive effects.
Really poor game so far imo. Still not to far behind quake 3 but seriously something needs to be done about the core of the game, it needs a refreshment. Poke, poke, poke. Then cloak with nyx. How the fuck is that called esport, thats pathetic.
On May 18 2017 00:16 Foxxan wrote: Live stream tomorrow with developers of the game. Design talk is on the list. Lets see if they are happy with this poor product or if they will change things up so there are actually interractions and skill being used with the champion abilities, meanwhile making actually more gamestyles possible while making the champions have more specific gamestyles how they move but also in combat with their passive effects.
Really poor game so far imo. Still not to far behind quake 3 but seriously something needs to be done about the core of the game, it needs a refreshment. Poke, poke, poke. Then cloak with nyx. How the fuck is that called esport, thats pathetic.
What is wrong with "poke poke poke" ? Why does it need to be close range? You try to control the map and the items until you are confident you can force a frag. There is a lot of skill involved there. I guess if it is too passive it might be a problem, i can see that. But at least it's actual skill which decides these games and not overpowered abilities like in other shooters these days.
With that being said, still cannot play the game The launcher is terrible and the netcode as well.
Nothing wrong with poke but thats what you do 80%+ of the time. You dont actually do any duels, you jump around the map and poke the enemy while he pokes you. When someone is low the game turns into a cat and mouse type of game.
Same in quake 3.
Then qc comes and the abilities discourage aggression even further than quake 3. Some champs have abilities that are good at close range or middle range or both. So even further encouraging to keep distance and do the poking instead.
Thats what items encourage aswell, a cat and mouse type of game. A little less now maybe but hp and movement is changed on the champs so thats different as well. But nothing they have made, absolutely nothing has actually enhanced or improved the gameplay. Except perhaps bigger maps, thats a good thing.
And then iam not even talking about rng spawn location either. On one map in duel, you can spawn at the start of the game at two locations. The one who start closer to the railgun has advantage. Iam not even talking much about the meta either, get railgun and denie it from the enemy, have an advantage.Thats what many games become. About the rng spawn, thats something that shouldnt be in beta, or at the very least tell the players where you will spawn so you can choose the "correct" champ for that location. Either way this isnt even that big of a deal and easy to change.
Well, then we have this meta of weapons which is cl, rg, and rl(chain lightning, railgun and rocket launcher). What is wrong with trying to spice it up a bit, or perhaps even add some utility weapon so actually moving close to the enemy and make moves that way so the fight doesnt end in second and tactics are possible. I dont get these developers but will be interesting tomorrow.
Like let me focus a bit more what i mean with they not improving gameplay a bit with qc. We have these champions with poor abilities, little to no counterplay here. And if you can counter it its usually in an uninintersting way. But that aside, we also have these passive effects on the champs and while they could actually encourage different playstyles they do not.
You are not playing the game, but lets take ranger for example. He has a passive effect: "25% reduced self-damage". Alright ,nice. This will encourage rocket jumping even more(its still good on other champs without this ability) and maybe even can be used in direct-combat. This could perhaps be increased further and than his ability could synergise with this effect so now we have this very different style of a champion.
I am not sure i wanna talk about the coodlowns either, holy moly. When a champion is out of cooldown, what do you want to do? Fight without it? Nope you want to wait for it. Just cut the cooldowns.... I leave it at that.
Nothing wrong with poke but thats what you do 80%+ of the time. You dont actually do any duels, you jump around the map and poke the enemy while he pokes you. When someone is low the game turns into a cat and mouse type of game.
Same in quake 3.
Well yes that is what you do in shooters which have a "long" ttk. You make sure the actual engagement is worth it. The same happens in OW as well for example, there the engagement is triggered by ultimate advantage.
Also you have to realize that defensive, safe play will always be better/more stable in competitive formats. If the meta evolves enough that is. I cannot say too much about the specific champions because i simply couldn't play it yet, but i don't quite understand what you want to happen for duel. I completely agree that if it gets too passive it becomes a problem, but if there is a nice pacing of control + planning and then actual engagements i think it's fine. Maybe QC is already too passive ? (that's obviously quite a bit subjective) I guess i should watch it on a daily basis to decide ^^
If you want constant fights and fast speed with very little +backing you can start playing some quakeworld. A game that fast is never going to become popular but its a fun game to play and to watch.
Well yes that is what you do in shooters which have a "long" ttk. You make sure the actual engagement is worth it. The same happens in OW as well for example, there the engagement is triggered by ultimate advantage.
Only if the game is designed to reward risk-averse players. With a different type of game-design you can punish players for retreating from an engagement.
I dont know what ttk is? Did you mean attack? Or do you mean railgun? This isnt an ordinary shooter, this is a fast paced one with more health than normal. We have 100% dps weapons as well, and the abilites/champions arent designed with much in mind it seems. Ofcourse we will get the quake 3 feel with nothing really added.
What iam talking about is actually encouraged to move close, to have different styles champion wise and player wise. PERFECT OPPORTUNITY with quake champion.
Also you have to realize that defensive, safe play will always be better/more stable in competitive formats. If the meta evolves enough that is.
Not sure you understand. The game is designed around this, thats why. Moving close is suicide. Ofcourse the meta will be "stay at range and poke" if the tools encourage that way more than not.
Iam not talking about going all-in, being frantic. Rolling a dice. Iam talking about pro players, that can play a way more aggressive style with skills and no rng. You know actually doing moves.
Chain lightinig vs chain lightning duel. Not much is going on except accuracy and movement battle. Right? Enchance the experience, thats what the champions are supposed to do. Or even without them, enhance it by adding utility weapon, or even items. Idc, make quake a better game thats the point. Its a reason quake 3 live didnt become an active game, people would play it if it was a good one.
EDIT: Also there is a mod called rocket arena, or clan arena its the same in quake 3. No items on map. A very small map. Start with all weapons and full armor/health. This mode is way more fun than playing on a map with items because you actually fight there against each other. Alot of poking, yes, but its such a small map so stuff is happening all the time.
I think, that people prefer that over the normal mode with items. Its less cat and mouse bullshit there.
Forgot to say: Nothign to do with having a really great ranged weapon in the game, thats not the reason its discouraged to move close. Rocket launcher is such a deadly weapon to be aggressive against. Most likely projectileweapons are deadly to go against when you chase aswell. Its the general core of the game that needs a fix for it to work.
Well yes that is what you do in shooters which have a "long" ttk. You make sure the actual engagement is worth it. The same happens in OW as well for example, there the engagement is triggered by ultimate advantage.
Only if the game is designed to reward risk-averse players. With a different type of game-design you can punish players for retreating from an engagement.
Sure but how do you apply this to a game which should still feel like quake? Any suggestions?
On May 18 2017 03:56 Foxxan wrote: I dont know what ttk is? Did you mean attack? Or do you mean railgun? This isnt an ordinary shooter, this is a fast paced one with more health than normal. We have 100% dps weapons as well, and the abilites/champions arent designed with much in mind it seems. Ofcourse we will get the quake 3 feel with nothing really added.
What iam talking about is actually encouraged to move close, to have different styles champion wise and player wise. PERFECT OPPORTUNITY with quake champion.
Also you have to realize that defensive, safe play will always be better/more stable in competitive formats. If the meta evolves enough that is.
Not sure you understand. The game is designed around this, thats why. Moving close is suicide. Ofcourse the meta will be "stay at range and poke" if the tools encourage that way more than not.
Iam not talking about going all-in, being frantic. Rolling a dice. Iam talking about pro players, that can play a way more aggressive style with skills and no rng. You know actually doing moves.
Chain lightinig vs chain lightning duel. Not much is going on except accuracy and movement battle. Right? Enchance the experience, thats what the champions are supposed to do. Or even without them, enhance it by adding utility weapon, or even items. Idc, make quake a better game thats the point. Its a reason quake 3 live didnt become an active game, people would play it if it was a good one.
EDIT: Also there is a mod called rocket arena, or clan arena its the same in quake 3. No items on map. A very small map. Start with all weapons and full armor/health. This mode is way more fun than playing on a map with items because you actually fight there against each other. Alot of poking, yes, but its such a small map so stuff is happening all the time.
I think, that people prefer that over the normal mode with items. Its less cat and mouse bullshit there.
"time to kill". I was simply suggesting that no matter how the game is designed, players will always try to play defensively at a certain point. It's safer, more stable. Quake still has to feel like quake, and in quake you wanna control certain items on the map. Lots of mindgames and understanding routes, etc. I also don't believe that constant fighting is actually more fun in general. Pacing is really important, having action 24/7 means each move has less impact on you. Finding a nice balance is the key here. I think you simply don't like quake style games, i don't think that your analysis of "quake 3 live would be played if it was good applies at all" , sometimes it's simply about quality of live features.
I love quake style games. I never said action 24/7. I never said poking shouldnt be possible. Rocket arena/clan arena has no items. Its the superior mod imo.
This? Well i really don't think there is any pacing there.
most of the clips there are 1x1's or 2x2's on the super small maps, so it's not as fun to watch. You can search for better vids on youtube that highlight the actual mod how it is in stuff like 10x10 or so. RA3 was the ultimate Clan-Arena experience and was a superb mod. It had everything minus the item control.
RA3 or CA were never played in big tournaments cause there is no incentive to move. Being the aggressor puts you at a disadvantage because rocket and nade spamming corners or +backing with rail was the way to go if you actually wanted to win. I know its a fun game when people are running at each other and taking aim duels but as a real competitive game for tournaments and such its useless.
I am no fan of this at all tbh, it completely negates the strategy behind duel. It might be fun to frag a lot in a team environment, but we were talking duels here, 1vs1. At that point getting rid of item control seems bad to me.
What i mean with pacing? There is no buildup to the action. It's just action 24/7. You remove so much strategy there. I don't see how this is "better", it's just different with a focus on action and strategy gets removed.
But quake style game to me is a fastpaced shooter, with good accuracy skill and good amount of health so its possible to make several moves in combat. Probably wise to add "equal match". But yeah. Quake needs an update in terms of its mechanics, there are no reason to put beeing offensive at a great disatvantage.
On May 18 2017 06:18 The_Red_Viper wrote: I am no fan of this at all tbh, it completely negates the strategy behind duel. It might be fun to frag a lot in a team environment, but we were talking duels here, 1vs1. At that point getting rid of item control seems bad to me.
What i mean with pacing? There is no buildup to the action. It's just action 24/7. You remove so much strategy there. I don't see how this is "better", it's just different with a focus on action and strategy gets removed.
Alright i understand. Its not necessarily better, no. I like it more but it would still not be enough for me, this would not do it. Item mode would be more likeable if quake had more fighting styles and as a player had more outcome over the battle.
Not sure you are familiar with the champion abilities? You watch stream or something? Like clutch shield. A tweak of that shield could be put on a weapon for example. Also could make it faster to switch weapons. But needs to combo it, like some restiction on it so its not all "random" for the enemy what the opponent will do.
When you are in the air, you have no power of your control more or less. A weapon when fired could make you have some air control while in air, or an ability could do it.
So when you move close to the enemy or even chase him you have power to neglect some damage you receive. You know nyx? What a crap ability, but redesign it and when used, she can jump more on the walls to dodge rockets or something. It would still feel like quake with its fast pace good accuracy skill and so on, atleast to me.
All of this would work better if the duel format would be the old one though. Like right now it's already over kinda fast, etc. I agree that you could do a lot more with abilities probably. I mean if you go the champion route then do it right i guess? Though i am not the biggest fan of "champions" in the first place tbh. I guess it's simply the current gimmick though.
Do you know about Diabotical? There really isn't any gameplay shown atm, but i think 2GD's view on gameplay is decent. But yeah doesn't mean the game will be good, especially because it's an incredibly small team.
Honestly like in all previous quakes i think the way the game should be played "competitively" is up to the players. I mean, quake has always made up it's own rules as to how to play competitively whether it's CTF, duelling, quakeworld, RA, freakin Team fortress for gods sake lol
I think most importantly the base game is fun (yes) and it works well (mostly) and it's quake at heart (yes!)
Honestly with the way the game is going now, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the developers don't plan to make duel(this one at least) the go-to option for pro play. They are experienced enough to know what they're doing, and the fact that they keep duel like it is now.. they should know better if they planned to make duel the go-to mode.
Who knows maybe it'll be some mode that isn't out yet. hell, maybe one of the few modes which are not available yet is "classic duel".
btw is there some way to start a petition to get the developers to change the rocket launcher firing sounds from a shotgun being fired against a pillow to an actual rocket being launched?
^Didnt all old quake developers leave the game company already? Seems to me they arent very experienced after all.
I hope the new duel mode is classic one but with champions and free-to-pick every death and before match. Or something along those lines atleast. Then i hope the maps they do for duel is wider, while possible to choose where to respawn after each death to remove the rng(RNG DOESNT BELONG IN ESPORT, DEVELOPRS SHOULD KNOW THIS AT THEIR BACK OF THE HEAD)
On May 18 2017 15:29 abuse wrote: haven't tried sacrifice yet.
Honestly with the way the game is going now, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the developers don't plan to make duel(this one at least) the go-to option for pro play. They are experienced enough to know what they're doing, and the fact that they keep duel like it is now.. they should know better if they planned to make duel the go-to mode.
Who knows maybe it'll be some mode that isn't out yet. hell, maybe one of the few modes which are not available yet is "classic duel".
btw is there some way to start a petition to get the developers to change the rocket launcher firing sounds from a shotgun being fired against a pillow to an actual rocket being launched?
Yeah - that's what the other RL skin is for
Also there's a huge amount of complaining in this thread for a product that literally just came out of closed NDA beta on things that could change at a whim every other week lol
You say "lol" to that, but what you dont seem to understand is that the developers should have seen these stuff themself. When someone using an ability and there is no counter to it, no back-and-forth. No power to one player. Its a terrible gameplay design. Feedback shouldnt even be needed here one bit.
So keep on loling but this the reality we are having in the game world. Instead of defending game companies we need to be more strict with the gameplay they provide.
Also there's a huge amount of complaining in this thread for a product that literally just came out of closed NDA beta on things that could change at a whim every other week lol
you seem to confuse whining for criticism. Without people pointing out the wrongs, stuff would never get fixed/changed, so I have no idea where people with comments like yours are coming from.
also on the RL skin matter, that's just silly. Why not just remove sounds altogether on all the free weapons, and give only the alternative skin options the proper sound.
So after reading a bit of a recap of the live stream today with the developer of the game. Seems everything is set in stone so far pretty much and just tweaks is going to happen. ^^:D-_--^_^;:p(: Saddest part is that this game will have matchmaking so i might buy it.
Have been putting in a few hours of the game now and man, I miss the green cyborg guy... He really was Quake for me.
I'm ok with hitboxes being different for each champion but seriously, sometimes it's impossible to see your enemy in an LG fight or other close- up situations. In some scenarios they have identical colours with the wall or ground which blurs out the specifics of the hitbox. Worst is Nyx.
Having only played Quake facing green enemies this is actually a bigger deal than I initially thought. Sounds, feeling, much of the good stuff is gone....
Playing this game is making me miss QL. Shame that it's P2P nowadays and has such a small playerbase....
Sorry for the whine but it's a bit saddening actually haha ;P. Other than this I feel QC is a great game. Just give us a wider range of graphics settings and config.
The visibility is absolutely horrendous. Tracking projectiles is not even feasible in a lot of situations. All the weapons feel worse than their q3a counterparts. I'm not sure if there is one piece of gameplay that feels better.
Still haven't touched duel and don't even know if I want to bother.
My matches in sacrifice have been pretty awful. Usually 1 decent player on each team and everyone else is a potat. Oh well. I'll still end up playing it anyway.
On May 20 2017 02:52 porkRaven wrote: My matches in sacrifice have been pretty awful. Usually 1 decent player on each team and everyone else is a potat. Oh well. I'll still end up playing it anyway.
In the beginning it was pretty terrible, but I've been having more luck the last couple games. I must admit as long as both sides know what their doing I really enjoy the mode. It can definitely use a little work though, capture speed changes, spawn changes, but all in all there is definitely potential.
I do like that grenade launcher is not in this game actually. And this game reminded me of the cool characters in quake 3. I want orb and sergeant for example...
Installed the game yesterday and managed to play like 6 dm games before the servers went down. I enjoyed it... maybe i'd enjoy any quake at this point but i had fun at least. Rocket with the delay is pretty shitty at the moment, some players warp like crazy and the game just doesn't feel very smooth unfortunately. I know its still a closed beta but i hope they'll fix some of it before next weekend.
Got into Q3A last night 'cause i was missing QC. Well i hadn't played Q3 in a looooong time 'cause "defrag". I can say QC is still a really good legacy.
The abilities i like and i don't like. Scale ability is perfect for medium level player. You can OS the better players because you can't fight them directly.
But some are purely anoying. The poison... oh man that's shitty. And fucking slash with bumbers... I mean or even that bitch with her rune. Q3DM6. Want rocket ? Want megahealth ? Nope abililty on the bumber and no one can take it.
It's more interesting in CTF but... more frustrating than anything else. I mean.. you go into Q3DM6 CTF with 3 slash. They but the soul on A, and there is 3 entry. 4 players. With 3 ability they completly block you and there's nothing you can do.
If you cross them. You die or have litlle health (meaning the defender will kill you very quickly). They can't chain them but in CTF it's still too strong if the players know how to use it.
So... i would prefer them gone, but the difference between bad/medium/good players would widen
seeing how there's no QC subforum, I'll just post here:
With Quake Champions hitting open beta in just a day from now, I figure this is the right time to announce that a Discord pickup community has been created.
The pickup is featuring both team modes currently in the game, Sacrifice and TDM along with the 1v1 mode, Duel. I can confirm the games were pretty much frequent throughout the closed beta tests and there's players of all skill levels there, from one of the worst to one of the best ones in the game so far.
The pickup is mostly Euro-dominated, but there is also an NA channel available for Murica to have fun in.
Admins: - Supsun - JT - cafe - nuke - exixt
Commands: - ?eu / ?us - selecting a region is the first thing you should do - .j / .join <mode> - adds you to a pickup game * - .leave <mode> - removes you from a pickup - .nomic - set this if you can't talk - .lva - leaves all joined pickups * modes are SAC for Sacrifice, Duel for duel and TDM for team deathmatch
How does it work? The teams are made based on picking players as there are no publicly available stats. The captains will invite everyone to correct party in the QC client.
Since there are no custom lobbies available in QC so far, the trick is for captains of both parties to start looking for a match in QC at the same moment. In 9/10 cases you get matched up with your pickup team.
Make sure to join voice, it's preferable to at least listen to your team mates. So now that you know pretty much everything, only thing left to do is to join the server and start adding. For all other questions you might have, feel free to pm the admins.
Welcome to the Quake Champions Beta! We’ve made a lot of changes in this build, many of which we just revealed at the Bethesda E3 Showcase! The first big change is that beta is now open 24/7! That means you can just in and play any time you want, unless we have a maintenance window or are deploying a future patch. We’ll keep you in the loop about any planned outages. We’ve also added a LOT of goodness. Here’s the list of other new additions that you can check out right now:
NEW Champion: B.J. Blazkowicz added to the Champion roster! • Dual Wield (Active) BJ calls for back-up and answers his own call. Double [censored] weapons, BJ takes turns firing them in rapid succession to lay down some heavy fire, but he will burn through some serious ammo to do so. • Regeneration (Passive) BJ can regenerate any damaged health inside one 25 HP block, if he doesn’t receive damage for 3 seconds. • Stats: • 100 / 100 HP • 25 / 50 AP • 310 -> 560 ups • Customizations includes 3 outfits and 1 vanity item.
NEW Weapon: • New weapon added – The Tri-Bolt! o The Tri-Bolt fires three bolts armed with timed explosives. Each bolt fires in quick succession, allowing the user to concentrate or spread the fire as needed.
NEW Maps: - Lockbox added -- a new Ithagnal themed arena for Sacrifice, Team Deathmatch, and Deathmatch - Blood Run added -- a new Volkerh themed Duel arena - Corrupted Keep added -- a new Goroth themed Duel arena
Custom Game: - Party with friends to play private matches on the arena and game mode of your choice! - Party Leaders can pre-configure teams in the Match Lobby by dragging players between pillars. - Start Match button will be disabled if the amount of players present is lower than required - Start Match button will be disabled in Duel mode if players don’t have 3 Champions available
NEW Spectator Mode: • Spectator mode added within Custom Game! o Invite friends to your party and drag them to the Match Lobby Spectator Box to allow them to spectate the match. o Spectators can toggle camera modes between players, rooms, and free-float by pressing [L. SHIFT]. o Players can cycle through players or rooms with [LEFTARROW] and [RIGHTARROW] or by pressing [1]-[0] number keys for specific players or rooms. o Spectators can press [X] to toggle x-ray outlines to see players locations through walls to help follow the action.
Main Menu UI: • Added Tutorials section. • Updated Loot Box Store • New Shader Customization preview icons (now correctly matching their patterns)
NEW Tutorials: • We have added the first three videos in our series of Beta Tutorials – “Welcome to Quake Champions,” “Health, Armor, & You: Controlling Your Stack,” and “Power-Ups: Turning the Tides of War.” • These videos are currently accessible by clicking the Movie icon on the Main Menu.
In-game: • New initial spawn points in Duel for Ruins of Sarnath • Adjusted item placements on all maps affecting all modes • Fix for not being able to pick-up armor shards or the Soul until only after their bounce animation ends Music: • Added new music set for the Dimension of the Doomed (Goroth themed maps: Burial Chamber, Corrupted Keep) • Added music set for the Netherworld (Ithagnal themed maps: Lockbox)
Known Issues: • A party of more than two players may enter a Duel lobby. The Start Match button is not disabled if the extraneous players remain present on the pillars instead of being moved to Spectator. Players who are still stuck on the podium after two Duel players are selected will be presented with an error message that you've been "kicked from the match." Upon receiving this error, you will need to restart the client to continue playing.
Game feels a lot better than it did on the second or third beta release. The game was total shit then but I enjoyed myself when I played a couple duels last night. Good progress.
So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites.
On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote: So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites.
Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3.
Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this.
Progamers will always tend to play more defensively on average in any game. It's simply the more safe, calculated style. And yes ofc quake is about poking until you are confident you can engage, that's what the item stacks do to the gameplay. It's strategy/tactics, without it it would be dumb "whoever hits better" which would actually be boring (like the one mod you posted )
On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote: So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites.
Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3.
Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this.
Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that.
Don't take this as an insult btw.
Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ).
But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC.
If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it.
This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round.
Yeah i am also not happy with three lives per round, makes the whole round really anticlimactic a lot of the time :/ From watching quakecon i don't really like the different heroes either, it seems forced and doesn't do much for me gameplaywise, everyone on the same character was more interesting to me.
On August 27 2017 23:15 The_Red_Viper wrote: Yeah i am also not happy with three lives per round, makes the whole round really anticlimactic a lot of the time :/ From watching quakecon i don't really like the different heroes either, it seems forced and doesn't do much for me gameplaywise, everyone on the same character was more interesting to me.
Yeah I worry deeply about the state of QC eSports... The competitive modes have a lot of design flaws on top of the game's technical issues.
That said, I must admit, the idea of having different champions each bringing back a different flavour of AFPS is kind of brilliant. Even if the eSports side endds up being stillborn, I will probably play a lot of this casually. The idea of having all these different styles in the same match and being able to switch on the fly without having to go to a completely different game with a smaller playerbase is very appealing, and hopefully it will bring back a lot of older players. I've no interest in playing duel anymore myself, least of all in this godawful format, but if they keep polishing the technical aspects and work a little harder on balancing, I could see myself spending hundreds of hours in FFA and casual TDM (possibly other gamemodes they may add in the future) as long as there's people to play against.
it was QC's 1st championship and they also took note from every pro player feedback there, which is enough for some very drastic balance gameplay changes over the next weeks, like Sorlag and Anarki's total abuse in both sacrifice and Duel matches.
Pre-Nerf Clutch could tank LG and Sorlag's venom to the face with his Shield, but he's nerfed and useless atm, B.J. has no practical uses for both Duel and Sacrifice, and Doomguy will be fixed on the next path, his berserk needs a good revamp and some people even suggested to add a "small" invulnerability like RoE Berserker or increase DMG.
also the game itself feels more random, compared to VQ3 and QL, Clawz took advantage of this and won, while everyone played safe, he played like Fatal1ty and Evil, which took everyone by surprise.
Also, Tim Stated on the Q&A that if the community wants it, they will change the Duel system Based on the feedback and analysis, Classic Duel with no Abilities is still a thing for them.
CTF mode will come out later this year along with the new champion, They also stated that if the community wants it, Sacrifice will be replaced with CTF for the next tournaments, As for the champions, Bones/Quake1 Death knight may be the next one, since his Ability is already on the PAK files(it will be the Wall of hellfire that DK's use on Quake 1), if not, its Athena/Major or Keel.
Reddit also leaked the Announcer audio files showing every champion listed on the CTF folder
Raine: Nicholas Raine aka RAGEguy Crash: Doom 3 Gameplay
Thus, QC is now confirmed to be on both Dreamhack Denver in October, and Winter later this year.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote: it was QC's 1st championship and they also took note from every pro player feedback there, which is enough for some very drastic balance gameplay changes over the next weeks, like Sorlag and Anarki's total abuse in both sacrifice and Duel matches.
I sincerely hope that whatever they do to Anarki they don't nerf him too hard for casual play because for me CPMA-style movement is the best I've ever felt. Sorlag does seem too strong though.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote: also the game itself feels more random, compared to VQ3 and QL, Clawz took advantage of this and won, while everyone played safe, he played like Fatal1ty and Evil, which took everyone by surprise.
Fully agreed. Its novelty and constant patching doesn't help, but I think fundamentally the way the duel system works right now promotes and amplifies this randomness, as opposed to all previous iterations of Quake.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote: Also, Tim Stated on the Q&A that if the community wants it, they will change the Duel system Based on the feedback and analysis, Classic Duel with no Abilities is still a thing for them.
Always an option, and possibly still the ideal one, but I'd still rather they tried to fix the new one or come up with some kind of middle ground solution if feasible.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote: CTF mode will come out later this year along with the new champion, They also stated that if the community wants it, Sacrifice will be replaced with CTF for the next tournaments, As for the champions, Bones/Quake1 Death knight may be the next one, since his Ability is already on the PAK files(it will be the Wall of hellfire that DK's use on Quake 1), if not, its Athena/Major or Keel.
Awesome. I've never liked Sacrifice, not in theory nor in practice, not to play (from what little I tried) nor to watch. It's one of those stupidly convoluted, overdesigned ideas where they're too afraid to just port something tried and true that works and end up way overshooting into a territory that no one asked for, kind of like some of Blizz's decisions with SC2 vs BW. Can't wait for proper CTF.
On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote: So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites.
Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3.
Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this.
Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that.
Don't take this as an insult btw.
Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ).
But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC.
If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it.
This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round.
As someone who vaguely understands dueling basics, it felt like some maps dragged on pretty heavily on QL pro matches I saw. Lost World for example felt like something where game would go on at 0-0 for 10 minutes or someone got an early 1-0 and held it to the end. In general it was pretty hard to feel too excited about where one player being in control for 9 or 10 minutes. In that sense I appreciate the idea that games at least end in players engaging each other and fragging rather than maintaining strong control and running down the clock.
That being said, I'm not sure at all if the 3 life limit is the thing either. I don't think I've seen that many duels with cpma movement, so maybe that allows enough trickery to make things exciting more consistently.
On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote: So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites.
Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3.
Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this.
Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that.
Don't take this as an insult btw.
Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ).
But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC.
If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it.
This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round.
As someone who vaguely understands dueling basics, it felt like some maps dragged on pretty heavily on QL pro matches I saw. Lost World for example felt like something where game would go on at 0-0 for 10 minutes or someone got an early 1-0 and held it to the end. In general it was pretty hard to feel too excited about where one player being in control for 9 or 10 minutes. In that sense I appreciate the idea that games at least end in players engaging each other and fragging rather than maintaining strong control and running down the clock.
That being said, I'm not sure at all if the 3 life limit is the thing either. I don't think I've seen that many duels with cpma movement, so maybe that allows enough trickery to make things exciting more consistently.
Yep and I addressed this. Watch matches played on Aerowalk, Toxicity, Hectic, T4 / Vertical Vengeance (a rare map granted) and it's like a completely different game.
You can definitely dictate the flow of the game through map design, and the QL pro scene had a relatively balanced map pool in that regard, but of course the more strategic players (like cooller, rapha, etc.) would veto the fast and loose maps because it allowed aim-heavy opponents more potential for comeback.
The comparison is not the best, because you are making an analogy between a fundamental design decision of QC's new duel mode, which is the limited lives system, and only a small part of the competitive gameplay of QL.
I also don't know how much QC you guys have watched, but I've seen plenty of high level matches that were nothing but "Nyx runs away from Nyx for 8 minutes, eventually someone dies in Sudden Death".
On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote: So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites.
Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3.
Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this.
Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that.
Don't take this as an insult btw.
Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ).
But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC.
If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it.
This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round.
As someone who vaguely understands dueling basics, it felt like some maps dragged on pretty heavily on QL pro matches I saw. Lost World for example felt like something where game would go on at 0-0 for 10 minutes or someone got an early 1-0 and held it to the end. In general it was pretty hard to feel too excited about where one player being in control for 9 or 10 minutes. In that sense I appreciate the idea that games at least end in players engaging each other and fragging rather than maintaining strong control and running down the clock.
That being said, I'm not sure at all if the 3 life limit is the thing either. I don't think I've seen that many duels with cpma movement, so maybe that allows enough trickery to make things exciting more consistently.
Yep and I addressed this. Watch matches played on Aerowalk, Toxicity, Hectic, T4 / Vertical Vengeance (a rare map granted) and it's like a completely different game.
To be frank, I don't think you can cherry pick maps as a spectator all the time. For example a tournament final series that starts with Lost World is going to chew down the excitement for anyone who isn't well versed in finer aspects of map control.
For the rest of it, I don't think I can or want to argue much. I'm more trying to describe how it feels for a viewer who is curious and willing to learn Quake more, but is still finding it difficult to enjoy at times.
EDIT: And for the clarity, I don't even want to argue that maps like Lost World should be removed. I'm more saying they are tricky to appreciate for some audiences and Quake probably could be a better spectator game if it figured out ways around the most passive moments. Whether that removes something too essential to the gameplay is another thing which I don't have the knowledge to argue.
The game is currently 25% off on steam, I highly recommend the game!
Many of the bugs fixed since closed beta. Netcode is fine, and ranked just got introduced. Even as somebody who did not loads of quake, this game is fun!
Damn no one thought to bump this while it was free on Steam? D:
Anyway I finally got in on this thing and it's honestly pretty fun for casual play... Duel is a different matter entirely, but just queuing into casual TDM or FFA is about as good as I was hoping.
Does anyone know if you can still get champions from lootboxes?
On July 13 2018 16:03 207aicila wrote: Damn no one thought to bump this while it was free on Steam? D:
Anyway I finally got in on this thing and it's honestly pretty fun for casual play... Duel is a different matter entirely, but just queuing into casual TDM or FFA is about as good as I was hoping.
Does anyone know if you can still get champions from lootboxes?
Yeah got into it as well now, same as you say though it's only really fun for casual tdm play. The duel system is so bad i have no idea what they were thinking, there is no flow to it Even with champions being a thing you could have done it differently, pretty disappointed.
Thanks for the post Derity, I watched some Cooller lately and also yesterday and wondered where to find coverage. Surprised Cooller is that high up, guess he practised a lot of Quake lately considering he played mostly Apex Legends this year from what I've seen. But I assume since it's another shooter and Cooller has played Quake since basically forever, he doesn't need much to get back in shape.
Really need to upgrade my rig to get playing this.
Probably pretty casually in TDM and whatnot, didn’t play enough UT and Quake in me youth to get decent at 1v1 and time becomes rather limited when you get older!
How is the player base these days? I followed streams and reactions to things for quite a while, but the game never really seemed to take off in the way myself as an arena shooter fan was really hoping.
Combined with UT being cancelled I was a bit salty that it seems old-school styles of FPS have been left in the dust popularity wise by more modern trappings that I dislike
On July 30 2019 00:52 Wombat_NI wrote: Really need to upgrade my rig to get playing this.
Probably pretty casually in TDM and whatnot, didn’t play enough UT and Quake in me youth to get decent at 1v1 and time becomes rather limited when you get older!
How is the player base these days? I followed streams and reactions to things for quite a while, but the game never really seemed to take off in the way myself as an arena shooter fan was really hoping.
Combined with UT being cancelled I was a bit salty that it seems old-school styles of FPS have been left in the dust popularity wise by more modern trappings that I dislike
the game is mega-dead, usually around 500-600 concurrent players. bums me out since it's my introduction to AFPS, the 'quake' core is good but this game is super super rough around the edges. the netcode is passable when it works correctly (not often) and performance is super-inconsistent. and the client and matchmaking flow sucks compared to basically every other esports title. it's a shame becuase the game could be so good, but it never stops getting in the way of itself.
On July 30 2019 00:52 Wombat_NI wrote: Really need to upgrade my rig to get playing this.
Probably pretty casually in TDM and whatnot, didn’t play enough UT and Quake in me youth to get decent at 1v1 and time becomes rather limited when you get older!
How is the player base these days? I followed streams and reactions to things for quite a while, but the game never really seemed to take off in the way myself as an arena shooter fan was really hoping.
Combined with UT being cancelled I was a bit salty that it seems old-school styles of FPS have been left in the dust popularity wise by more modern trappings that I dislike
the game is mega-dead, usually around 500-600 concurrent players. bums me out since it's my introduction to AFPS, the 'quake' core is good but this game is super super rough around the edges. the netcode is passable when it works correctly (not often) and performance is super-inconsistent. and the client and matchmaking flow sucks compared to basically every other esports title. it's a shame becuase the game could be so good, but it never stops getting in the way of itself.
That is disappointing really, the genre really needs a standout successful game to reinvigorate, a bit like RTS these days. I thought Doom doing so well while being a bit more ‘old school’ would have sparked some appetite for more games in that direction, but it increasingly looks an outlier rather than a game that shifted industry norms.
I feel QC is in a weird niche where it needs to launch basically complete and not in some kind of early access form.
Quake or AFPS vets will stick around with bugs and issues as it’s their genre that they’re attached to, new players less so. And you need new players to give other new players folks to play with and have a player skill curve going.
It feels as a relative outsider QC made the same mistake quite a few others have made in recent years which is pushing eSports by design, rather than just making a great Quake game and eSports be the cherry on top.