We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
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Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating.
But it is. You never said oral sex, you said third base. If you said oral sex, I wouldn't have had to ask.
In my mind those two are identical terms. If they aren't I missed something somewhere along the way!
So, you want a relationship without having a relationship? That's what I mean when I say you need to figure out what you want first. What you suggest sounds like a fairytale and will likely never happen that way. You will always find yourself at a point where you'll have to choose between benefits and commitment.
Very interested in what you're saying here, could you elaborate on the choosing between benefits in commitment?
I think of it this way, I'm basically looking to meet cool women that are fun to be around. If that leads to a hot night, great. If we connect on a deeper level and find we are into each other I'm open to the idea of a relationship.
I haven't stayed hard for 100% of the time for nearly 10 years now and while it bothered me for a while in the beginning, I just tend to joke about it nowadays and the women are usually fine with it, from what I can tell at least. Guess there is nothing which could prove your confidence more like fucking her with a limp dick while having a good laugh about it.
LOL. Would definitely show confidence that's for sure
Granted, getting there took its time, but it's entirely possible. I'd also recommend consulting a physician, tell him some sobstory about you being limp all the time and get a prescription for Cialis. Apparently we're in the same boat (I beat my dick way too hard as well and porn does indeed mess with your mind) and from my experience, getting a little chemical help will make it easier for your dick to "remember" how it felt staying hard all the time and it will get better on its own after. This is highly anecdotal though and I'd recommend getting checked up first, you might have a weak heart or whatever and not know about it. Or you could not give a fuck like I did and order online from India lol.
Weak heart would be highly unlikely given regular medical check ups, normal levels of pretty much all bloodwork; and the fact that I can ride my bike up mountains faster than all but a small handful of people in my state.
If no fap over time doesn't make a difference, I would probably go this route, it's a good suggestion.
Don't change who you are. If you're into slow, passionate sex, more power to you. There are enough meatheads and young kids who do nothing but beat the living shit out of every pussy they can get, so you taking it slow will be a nice change for many women. If you like beating the living shit out of a pussy, do that. But I'd recommend not going against who you really are. I am the same btw, girls still would refer to me as the baddest guy they ever met.
I like alot more foreplay than most, but I also like throwing the girl around a bit...certainly being a bit confidence inhibited.
My advice for you? Since you failed miserably so far, how about stop giving a fuck for a moment?
Pretty much always solid advice. Good call.
Sarcasm? :D
Not at all. Especially during sex I'm giving way to many fucks, it was a good reminder.
Well, that's exactly what I meant by that. You're in your head while she's sitting across the table and you better believe she can tell. Seeing you think does not make her go "OMG he must be boring". It's much rather a mixture of "OMG did I mess up my hair?", "OMG did I say something stupid?" and all the while she will be asking herself what the fuck could be so important for you to think about while going on a first date. Which then will lead to her getting turned off, way before you can "physically escalate things" and even longer before you will have proof of her being turned off (bad sex). She will dry up and stay dry if you do the wrong things. Likewise she'll get wet and stay wet if you do the right things.
Experience will only save you from making the wrong call and go home with a woman who's clearly not into you, but left her house with the intent of getting some dick, so she's here with your sorry ass and even more sorry limp dick lol. But experience won't ever save you from not being able to push the right buttons. You can't with all girls there are, no matter who you are. You have to take these "losses" (you can actually only gain things from this, like confidence, self-respect etc) and move on, nothing to be done about it and sure as shit nothing to be talked or thought about it.
In all honesty I don't think I'm in my head too much during conversations and interactions. I'm pretty comfortable with those. I don't have a super jock totally cocky with no inhibition slayer personality, but I'm generally pretty free and comfortable in conversation. I don't worry too much about what I say. Again, it's not like I never do...but I think compared to most guys I'm at least even on the curve here or a little above average.
Really good point there in the bolded. I think I've gotten very comfortable accepting that and it makes a huge difference.
Dunno dude, I just read the post I quoted then. I certainly don't know who you are and how you present yourself. I'm just learning about the outcomes and well, you give me plenty of reason to think of you as this dude who just disappoints the girl more and more the longer the night gets.
I don't think so, at least until we get to actual sex, but always have to consider Dunning-Kruger. Most girls generally seem pretty into me and seem to be very receptive to my pushing the interaction forward.
You care so much about the beginning (e.g. your Tinder profile picture rofl), you completely ignore the end. What you're doing is set the bar super high and then fail to reach it all night long. You need to do it the way round. Have her sit there and expect nothing, while you arrive calm and collected, just to blow her away again and again with whatever's at your disposal, humour, wit, knowledge.
This is an interesting perspective. I'm not quite sure how I'm setting the bar high, to me a straight on basic picture is about as vanilla as they come. The only thing I could think to set the bar lower would be to intentionally take mediocre selfies in poor locations.
My perspective is that you want to show off the best of yours, to cast the widest net possible for the most opportunities. Your's seem to suggest weaker profiles, so that when you actually meet up it's much easier to impress on the date. If that is indeed what you're advocating its quite fascinating. I can see clear benefits and clear drawbacks.
I'm also confident in the date part, so my thought process has always been to show myself in a fair, but good, light on Tinder for the most matches/opportunities, and let my personality take care of the date.
But more dates don't necessarily mean more sex. And if I got you right, for you it's not about quantity at all. You wanna get laid properly, finally.
Quality girls for sure in terms of looks. Granted, a less attractive girl that knows what she is doing can blow your doors off and be way more fun than a more attractive girl that is living the starfish life, but all else equal I'd rather draw in higher quality matches...and picture quality certainly correlates to match quality.
But even I do get that impression off you. And I don't care about you, not at all. You're just another guy on the internet. But, you're also a fellow man who seems to have a problem that I think I know something about. So take it to your heart and think about that, this in the end might be the thing that's holding you back. You might confuse women too much while switching up the tough guy you clearly want to represent, as it's seen in your pictures, with the soft guy you are at heart. It is good to be able to be both, but they can't really coexist at the same time in the same room.
Very, very salient point. Ridiculously accurate, and extends to life in general. I'm still figuring out that balance of where I want to be (in life too, not just with women). The truth is, I believe quite strongly in treating people nice and being a genuinely good human being. However, that doesn't square well with a strong, dominant person I want to be when it comes to social interaction and dating.
I think those two can have balance, you don't have to be a doormat nor do you have to be a raging asshole, but I haven't found where that is for me.
For the regular woman to be aroused when you start "escalating physically" (I'm sorry, but I can't help it), you will have to lay groundwork hours before that. A woman will also decide whether she wants to fuck you or not rather quickly, so if you fuck up the first few minutes of your date, there will either be no sex at all, or what you got. And trust me, you got that only because you look the part and they hoped for you to turn it on as soon as the lights are out.
Absolutely. You can almost feel this sometimes in the first few minutes.
Don't think about it. When you think about, look at her cleavage. Should clear your head rather quickly. And it will make her also not believe you're some kind of Incel who's just too afraid to ask for what he really wants.
Yep. Need to keep this in mind at all times.
I never make any physical contact, unless it can't be avoided. I think it's highly inappropriate to do so at all. Things like this can wait until you get home. Or at the movies, or wherever it's dark and you have some time for yourselves. Yet I fucked a lot more than you and have no problems at all with having a conversation with a girl I want to fuck. Although, to make up for this you'd have your conversations go from "sometimes even a little charged sexually" to "all the time sexual references every few minutes at least". Make her think about your dick, make her think about her pussy and make her think about what would happen if these two had their time together.
And please, ask yourself, what's more awkward, the dude randomly touching her all the time, like all dudes do these days cuz they read about it on the internet lol, or the dude who constantly reminds her about why you even met in the first place? Might be the US, but if you touched a girl randomly all the time in Germany, you'd get your teeth stomped in and rightfully so. Stop using predatory means just because they can work. They don't work if you have a babyface and aren't intimidating in any other way as well. You're a grown ass man and shouldn't act like a child or a sociopath if you are neither of them.
I think what you're thinking I'm doing is a little different than what I'm doing. That said, overall I really like this approach. It makes sense and it's obvious as hell it's going to work well. Big fan of this concept will definitely aim for that as a goal.
Since you seem to care a lot about it, here's my Tinder picture, the only one I got there. https://imgur.com/a/FAlS04V Black and white, mirrored, heavily bearded, sunglasses, hat. You basically can't tell shit about how I really look. Yet I get matches on the daily and all they ever ask is "You still got that beard?" LOL. Maybe you get it now, the picture itself is fucking irrelevant. It is the way you present yourself in it.
I dunno here. I don't think the picture is irrelevant at all, at least when it comes to getting matches. Better pics get more matches flat out, and you get more and more the greater your attractiveness. Presentation IS absolutely a part of that, but how you actually look is a key part of that.
Guy on the left, no matter how he presents himself, is not going to get many matches. Guy on the right can basically do whatever he wants and get 50%+ success rate swiping. If his presentation is good as well he might get 90%+.
In your case, no you can't see your face. But it's obvious you're an above average looking dude. High cheekbones, excellent looking skin, wide jaw and some definite masculine appeal with that aesthetic + the beard drawing in girls that are attracted to that kind of guy.
Your face, assuming it isn't mirror flipped, is also incredibly harmonious/symmetric. You almost certainly look better in person than in photos.
So yea, I'm not surprised you get matches at all with a pic and looks like that.
On June 29 2018 04:49 sc-darkness wrote: It's said that if you reset your Tinder account, your match rate is at its peak for the first 2-3 days. Also, swiping right all the time is suicide to your ELO rating. Eye opening truth. :D More info: https://www.swipehelper.com/2016/11/16/tinder-algorithm/
Yep. Don't just mindlessly right swipe. I don't know why you would anyway though, no point matching with women you don't find attractive.
On June 29 2018 04:49 sc-darkness wrote: It's said that if you reset your Tinder account, your match rate is at its peak for the first 2-3 days. Also, swiping right all the time is suicide to your ELO rating. Eye opening truth. :D More info: https://www.swipehelper.com/2016/11/16/tinder-algorithm/
Yep. Don't just mindlessly right swipe. I don't know why you would anyway though, no point matching with women you don't find attractive.
Generally because you're only going to match with a minor few of them, so it's wasted brain power (or dick power if you will) to sift through everyone you probably won't match with, when you might as well put on a "match only" filter first.
If there's any kind of drawback for doing this, like losing some hidden rating of some kind, it is not advertised to the average user, so they won't take that into consideration.
Random pretty attractive older 30s chick that randomly added on insta. Pretty clear she was into me was played it somewhat aggressive. Texted more than neccessary because I was having fun with the banter, but notice it was all pretty light and flirty. No deep serious: + Show Spoiler +
But it is. You never said oral sex, you said third base. If you said oral sex, I wouldn't have had to ask.
In my mind those two are identical terms. If they aren't I missed something somewhere along the way!
Yeah, no. I always thought it was actual sex, but then again I'm not too educated on this kinda terminology, so you probably haven't missed anything. But see my point, saying what you really want to say. And this is never "3rd base" but always "oral sex". If you do that all the time with women, ignore what I said.
So, you want a relationship without having a relationship? That's what I mean when I say you need to figure out what you want first. What you suggest sounds like a fairytale and will likely never happen that way. You will always find yourself at a point where you'll have to choose between benefits and commitment.
Very interested in what you're saying here, could you elaborate on the choosing between benefits in commitment?
I think of it this way, I'm basically looking to meet cool women that are fun to be around. If that leads to a hot night, great. If we connect on a deeper level and find we are into each other I'm open to the idea of a relationship.
Well, it's not so much about really choosing between them, it's more how you present yourself to a potential partner in the beginning. If you go for the sexual encounter straight away with forced physicalities (is that even a word?) and sexualized language and such, you will close some doors with some women at least. More importantly, I believe you can close doors within yourself with this type of behaviour. Commitment in this case, I'd call for example you going on a first date, really paying attention to what she says and, most importantly, you opening up about yourself. And that doesn't mean talking about your hobbies or whatever, but you sharing intimate knowledge with one another, which always is a display of trust and as such is a commitment in itself. One she will notice and appreciate, if she doesn't want to avoid commitment of course. And she might give it back to you, granting you the kind of superpowers you need to overcome the ridiculous standards you must have set for yourself.
Not doing this will obviously make it easier for you to get and sustain the things you say you want. There's just less work and emotions involved. But I'm thinking ahead of this and you will without a single doubt meet one or more women, who will test that. Read, she's gonna be so beautiful to you, will have a great mind and character etc., to make it short, you'll be blown away by her and likely fall in love later on. And having this kinda standardized way to get maximum pussy out of your Tindering would considerably lessen your chances with someone who wants more than just sex. This is a highly personal opinion, so I'm not saying this is fact or something, could be entirely wrong for you or the place you meet these women. Thinking of it, apparently I've been wrong about you quite a few times already and I'm not so sure about some of the stuff I wrote anymore.
I haven't stayed hard for 100% of the time for nearly 10 years now and while it bothered me for a while in the beginning, I just tend to joke about it nowadays and the women are usually fine with it, from what I can tell at least. Guess there is nothing which could prove your confidence more like fucking her with a limp dick while having a good laugh about it.
LOL. Would definitely show confidence that's for sure
Granted, getting there took its time, but it's entirely possible. I'd also recommend consulting a physician, tell him some sobstory about you being limp all the time and get a prescription for Cialis. Apparently we're in the same boat (I beat my dick way too hard as well and porn does indeed mess with your mind) and from my experience, getting a little chemical help will make it easier for your dick to "remember" how it felt staying hard all the time and it will get better on its own after. This is highly anecdotal though and I'd recommend getting checked up first, you might have a weak heart or whatever and not know about it. Or you could not give a fuck like I did and order online from India lol.
Weak heart would be highly unlikely given regular medical check ups, normal levels of pretty much all bloodwork; and the fact that I can ride my bike up mountains faster than all but a small handful of people in my state.
If no fap over time doesn't make a difference, I would probably go this route, it's a good suggestion.
Yeah, I'm not sold on not masturbating really doing anything there. You will get a way more visible thirst for pussy, especially if you've been used to do it a lot, accompanied with watching porn aka setting wrong standards. Which not only I, but a lot of men say, is one of the saddest sights you can get of a man. But go for it anyways, I'm on the brink of having a break from it as well. It's always good to give your brain some rest from porn at least. It's been at least 15 years since I used just my fantasy to masturbate to and I kinda miss it, but porn's just too convenient and addictive.
Don't change who you are. If you're into slow, passionate sex, more power to you. There are enough meatheads and young kids who do nothing but beat the living shit out of every pussy they can get, so you taking it slow will be a nice change for many women. If you like beating the living shit out of a pussy, do that. But I'd recommend not going against who you really are. I am the same btw, girls still would refer to me as the baddest guy they ever met.
I like alot more foreplay than most, but I also like throwing the girl around a bit...certainly being a bit confidence inhibited.
My advice for you? Since you failed miserably so far, how about stop giving a fuck for a moment?
Pretty much always solid advice. Good call.
Sarcasm? :D
Not at all. Especially during sex I'm giving way to many fucks, it was a good reminder.
So, that's the hindrance? Because I don't really understand, on the one hand you come out and say you never really had much sex to begin with and the sex you had lately all being shit, on the other hand you sound like you're doing just like you're expected to, when, at that age, you basically allowed your sexlife to dictate some of the time you have and the things you do for the first time I guess? Or am I wrong again, when I assume you never really were "a sexual guy" before? I can only compare this to myself, so for me it was something like, I started wanting girls as early as age 6 or 7, had my first gf at the age of 10 (we even kissed, how I miss these days sometimes haha) and started going on a sexual rampage after my first time when I was 16 lol. So what I mean is, I've let sex and how to get it (girls) become a pretty solid #1 in terms of my priorities for a long fucking time. I wouldn't even say at 30 now I'd be much better lol, I just got used to dealing with it.
Well, that's exactly what I meant by that. You're in your head while she's sitting across the table and you better believe she can tell. Seeing you think does not make her go "OMG he must be boring". It's much rather a mixture of "OMG did I mess up my hair?", "OMG did I say something stupid?" and all the while she will be asking herself what the fuck could be so important for you to think about while going on a first date. Which then will lead to her getting turned off, way before you can "physically escalate things" and even longer before you will have proof of her being turned off (bad sex). She will dry up and stay dry if you do the wrong things. Likewise she'll get wet and stay wet if you do the right things.
Experience will only save you from making the wrong call and go home with a woman who's clearly not into you, but left her house with the intent of getting some dick, so she's here with your sorry ass and even more sorry limp dick lol. But experience won't ever save you from not being able to push the right buttons. You can't with all girls there are, no matter who you are. You have to take these "losses" (you can actually only gain things from this, like confidence, self-respect etc) and move on, nothing to be done about it and sure as shit nothing to be talked or thought about it.
In all honesty I don't think I'm in my head too much during conversations and interactions. I'm pretty comfortable with those. I don't have a super jock totally cocky with no inhibition slayer personality, but I'm generally pretty free and comfortable in conversation. I don't worry too much about what I say. Again, it's not like I never do...but I think compared to most guys I'm at least even on the curve here or a little above average.
Really good point there in the bolded. I think I've gotten very comfortable accepting that and it makes a huge difference.
We're getting to a point where I have to double-check what you said before, because if you're not lying right now, the only possible reason for your shitty sex I can see after reading this is the actual act of sex. If you say you're comfortable on the date before you go home with her and end up having sad attempts at having sex, there can't be any other reason, since we also established you certainly looking the part.
On June 29 2018 06:12 L_Master wrote:
I don't think so, at least until we get to actual sex, but always have to consider Dunning-Kruger. Most girls generally seem pretty into me and seem to be very receptive to my pushing the interaction forward.
Yea, must be right when you start touching them lol. No offense my dude, this is a serious topic. Exactly why I take my time to think of something to help you out.
You care so much about the beginning (e.g. your Tinder profile picture rofl), you completely ignore the end. What you're doing is set the bar super high and then fail to reach it all night long. You need to do it the way round. Have her sit there and expect nothing, while you arrive calm and collected, just to blow her away again and again with whatever's at your disposal, humour, wit, knowledge.
This is an interesting perspective. I'm not quite sure how I'm setting the bar high, to me a straight on basic picture is about as vanilla as they come. The only thing I could think to set the bar lower would be to intentionally take mediocre selfies in poor locations.
My perspective is that you want to show off the best of yours, to cast the widest net possible for the most opportunities. Your's seem to suggest weaker profiles, so that when you actually meet up it's much easier to impress on the date. If that is indeed what you're advocating its quite fascinating. I can see clear benefits and clear drawbacks.
I'm also confident in the date part, so my thought process has always been to show myself in a fair, but good, light on Tinder for the most matches/opportunities, and let my personality take care of the date.
Yea haha, no. At the risk of this becoming some homoerotic circle jerk, I can only repeat, you're looking just fine. Your selfies are kinda bad in a show-off way, but they're brutally honest too haha. And still you look good in them, so it's not that. You probably look a lot better when you go on your first date with them. And that is what sets the bar so high for you. Then you proceed to have a good time with her, which also sets the bar higher. And, as I concluded before, you then proceed to somehow fuck it up as soon as you get undressed.
But again, I could be wrong. Then again you had 4 women go home and have sex with you during the past 6 weeks. Were they all fat, sad or sorry? I somehow doubt it and that means you managed to do it right for all the parts before having actual sex. I gotta ask, is your dick somehow unusually small?
But more dates don't necessarily mean more sex. And if I got you right, for you it's not about quantity at all. You wanna get laid properly, finally.
Quality girls for sure in terms of looks. Granted, a less attractive girl that knows what she is doing can blow your doors off and be way more fun than a more attractive girl that is living the starfish life, but all else equal I'd rather draw in higher quality matches...and picture quality certainly correlates to match quality.
But even I do get that impression off you. And I don't care about you, not at all. You're just another guy on the internet. But, you're also a fellow man who seems to have a problem that I think I know something about. So take it to your heart and think about that, this in the end might be the thing that's holding you back. You might confuse women too much while switching up the tough guy you clearly want to represent, as it's seen in your pictures, with the soft guy you are at heart. It is good to be able to be both, but they can't really coexist at the same time in the same room.
Very, very salient point. Ridiculously accurate, and extends to life in general. I'm still figuring out that balance of where I want to be (in life too, not just with women). The truth is, I believe quite strongly in treating people nice and being a genuinely good human being. However, that doesn't square well with a strong, dominant person I want to be when it comes to social interaction and dating.
I think those two can have balance, you don't have to be a doormat nor do you have to be a raging asshole, but I haven't found where that is for me.
I could stop at the assumption of you just not knowing how to handle a womans body, but I must say, looking at your pictures, from them alone it's pretty obvious to figure how you are a guy who projects the tough guy more than actually being him. Don't take it personal once again, from your descriptions it also sounds like you're a dude who is rather soft and acts hard because he's too smart to not do it. I guess women can appreciate that, as it means you're at least socially intelligent. But I'd also guess it puts off some of them right at the start, maybe when you first meet. Reading your conversations on Tinder also makes that plausible, because you both seem to be enjoying them and you certainly have your no problems with words, but you're also using obvious c+p haha.
Maybe your problem is you not willing to put in that little extra step which makes a woman suck your brains out in the first place. From my experience alone there is always this point, you will have to spot though, when you can risk everything and either turn her brain into some sticky fluid which then pours out of her OR you end up having her get up, dress herself and leave without saying a word. Either of those and sometimes both happened to me on most occasions I got intimate with women. Lacking a popular descriptive term for this, like "3rd base" for example, I'll call it "being omega".
What you might be doing wrong is your physical approach to the art of having sex. Let's face it, there probably never has been a generation of women so educated and especially well trained in sex like this one. So the pressure is on us, all the time. Do you feel you succumb to it? Or is your own actual experience (and not what you think she's thinking) in bed similar to the date, which went well? How many times you said your dick went limp and did it do so for the entire duration? I mean there are instances where you can actually feel aroused and not get any reaction from your dick at all. For me it was the aftermath of speed abuse lol, my dick would need a full year to get back actually working again. And even then I had occasions when it went stupidly limp. Then again, women are so used to it, pretty much every single one of them I had from the getgo were not irritated in the slightest and some of them much rather enjoyed it and played around with it doing this kiddy voice shit lol. Also, I tell them my dick is picky, so they'd have to make at least some effort, which got me some of the most ludicrous things women would do to me.
Do you talk during sex at all btw? Would be interesting to know.
Since you seem to care a lot about it, here's my Tinder picture, the only one I got there. https://imgur.com/a/FAlS04V Black and white, mirrored, heavily bearded, sunglasses, hat. You basically can't tell shit about how I really look. Yet I get matches on the daily and all they ever ask is "You still got that beard?" LOL. Maybe you get it now, the picture itself is fucking irrelevant. It is the way you present yourself in it.
I dunno here. I don't think the picture is irrelevant at all, at least when it comes to getting matches. Better pics get more matches flat out, and you get more and more the greater your attractiveness. Presentation IS absolutely a part of that, but how you actually look is a key part of that.
Guy on the left, no matter how he presents himself, is not going to get many matches. Guy on the right can basically do whatever he wants and get 50%+ success rate swiping. If his presentation is good as well he might get 90%+.
In your case, no you can't see your face. But it's obvious you're an above average looking dude. High cheekbones, excellent looking skin, wide jaw and some definite masculine appeal with that aesthetic + the beard drawing in girls that are attracted to that kind of guy.
Your face, assuming it isn't mirror flipped, is also incredibly harmonious/symmetric. You almost certainly look better in person than in photos.
So yea, I'm not surprised you get matches at all with a pic and looks like that.
You quoted me writing about the picture being mirrored actually. But you're right, I'm in most cases an above average dude, but it's not like I could afford to do anything I'd like to do sometimes. I'm not rich, I'm not even athletic, I'm just 6'1 and bulky, growing a mean beard if I can be bothered to not shave it for a few weeks etc. And I genuinely like women, which I think is important nowadays when there is put so much stress on the meaning of sex and gender. But I'm also a softhearted guy who has made a fool out of himself for at least a handful of women. I just worked on letting that dark, aggressive side go and not think about it too much, as long as I can control my emotions when it's necessary, and so far this always worked for me. I never even had sex as much as 4 times I didn't like while probably having had two dozen or more women and thousands of times of sex with my various ex girlfriends as I'm a loyal guy and pretty much was in relationships for all my life since my late teenage days, always wilding out like a chimp in between them, which is what makes me want to have them again in the first place haha.
So yeah, I'm using Tinder, I do swipe right only while I take a shit but I don't really care. I've had a handful of nice conversations and if I ever get desperate, I will certainly use it. But I think if you want to actually learn how to fuck, you will have to specifically look for women you can actually look at in public without having to write them an essay first and then have dates, which always cost money. At least for myself I'd say I can much better determine whether a woman I see is "fit" for what I want, which is good sex. There are types of women for every type of man and I guess you can also recognize one when you see them. So, my final advice probably (unless you turn out to somehow being unable of enjoying sex) will be, get out more (if you aren't doing it yet) and have a drink in a bar, on your own. It's what you did before the Internet and Tinder. And it has the same implications to it, so you can be sure about all women you meet there being aware of your intentions. And you can get drunk at the same time, why not? More excuses for the limp dick and some good ol' overconfidence.
Also, "older" women, i.e. 30-40 are usually what you can see in certain bars. And I truly recommend you looking for one if you want to "break your curse" or much rather have someone show you the ropes or calm you down or whatever it is you need.
PS1: I'm 28. PS2: Low yea, we kinda did lol...but great advice/discussion. Much thanks. I'll try to respond more generally.
But I'm thinking ahead of this and you will without a single doubt meet one or more women, who will test that. Read, she's gonna be so beautiful to you, will have a great mind and character etc., to make it short, you'll be blown away by her and likely fall in love later on. And having this kinda standardized way to get maximum pussy out of your Tindering would considerably lessen your chances with someone who wants more than just sex. This is a highly personal opinion, so I'm not saying this is fact or something,
Explained like this, I think it makes perfect sense and I absolutely see it being true.
So, that's the hindrance? Because I don't really understand, on the one hand you come out and say you never really had much sex to begin with and the sex you had lately all being shit, on the other hand you sound like you're doing just like you're expected to, when, at that age, you basically allowed your sexlife to dictate some of the time you have and the things you do for the first time I guess? Or am I wrong again, when I assume you never really were "a sexual guy" before
Well in HS I was so shy I didn't talk to a single girl. In college I tried to start fixing that but I still didn't do much sexually due to being incredibly inhibited. I got better at talking to women casually, but still massively inhibited in having any sort of sexual vibe. I had a few times of fingering or oral, but was too inhibited to push beyond that even though both times the girl initiated. Then from like 24-26 I was living at home chasing cycling but in a really dead city socially and I just made no effort so encounters were rare. Got better at talking to women and better about being sexual, but still had these major sex inhibs. I guess I was just worried about awkward moments or some stupid shit.
Then last year I started breaking out of that and trying to move to what I actually like, which is a dominant, sexually charged vibe (much like what you describe doing) that leads into sex that has plenty of foreplay but often turns a little aggressive towards the end. Last few months I've been trying to work on this in earnest.
The hindrance, if I had to boil it down, is probably a subtle combination of:
1) Being in my head and somehow concerned about being awkward/off (just fucking lol, but yea) 2) Being comfortable enough to have the dick working well 3) Remnants of the deeply embedded "nice, non sexual guy" mindset I grew up with
We're getting to a point where I have to double-check what you said before, because if you're not lying right now, the only possible reason for your shitty sex I can see after reading this is the actual act of sex. If you say you're comfortable on the date before you go home with her and end up having sad attempts at having sex, there can't be any other reason, since we also established you certainly looking the part.
Sometimes I have just show up at my place, but ya that's more or less accurate. I posted a few of them for sc-darkness, but you can see my tinder convos. Tbh those are pretty much the vibe and confidence level I'm looking for in person as well. I think my text "game" is quite solid. No complaints there. The interactions are fun for me, girls generally respond well, and it's effective.
Then in person it goes down a notch. If I'd give myself an 8-8.5/10 for text, I'd say maybe a 4-7/10 for in person. Definitely good days/bad days there. On my best days, I can more or less give off the same attitude/frame I'm conveying in text. Mediocre days, I have some of the sexual charge that's there but it's not quite there. Occasional bad days and for whatever reason I can't do shit.
Then actual sex is like a 2/10. Even there it's weird though. Huge number of girls have told me they love kissing me and that I'm quite good, which I'm inclined to believe. Very confident there. Oral/Fingering is interesting. Some girls I can figure out very easily what they like, others I can tell it's just not doing it for them...but then again there is a good chance this isn't necessary what I'm doing, but the attitude I'm conveying. From there though it goes more and more downhill, and between being too much in my head to stay properly hard and being worried about "performing" the actual sex is somewhere between vanilla/low key/bland to borderline non existent.
Tbh, if I can get to where I can interact in person consistently, as opposed to just sometimes, with the same sexual vibe and confidence I have over text on a regular basis, and get a little better at fucking I'll be pretty set. More than anything as you said I think it's just a matter of dropping some inhibitions and getting out of my own way.
So the pressure is on us, all the time. Do you feel you succumb to it?
Yea, in all honesty there is a component of that at play.
How many times you said your dick went limp and did it do so for the entire duration? I mean there are instances where you can actually feel aroused and not get any reaction from your dick at all.
Maybe 1/3. Usually it will come around at some point, but then sometimes moving to actual sex it either goes limp in the process of positioning her or while fucking her, especially in the case of a condom.
Do you talk during sex at all btw?
Not a ton. That's inhib kicking in again though. My mental image of what I want has stronger language and more dirty talk in there.
He's a subtle troll with women who like to be teased a bit. That's fairly common with women who are slightly full of themselves while being popular enough to have many admirers, which would be reasonably expected for the stock of second-fiddle celebrities that he's chatting with. Some girls, if they tell you about something they didn't succeed in as well as they'd like, if you respond with a variant on "lol, owned" you can get a reaction like that. Though of course depending on the person they might just be offended instead.
On June 30 2018 02:28 LegalLord wrote: He's a subtle troll with women who like to be teased a bit. That's fairly common with women who are slightly full of themselves while being popular enough to have many admirers, which would be reasonably expected for the stock of second-fiddle celebrities that he's chatting with. Some girls, if they tell you about something they didn't succeed in as well as they'd like, if you respond with a variant on "lol, owned" you can get a reaction like that. Though of course depending on the person they might just be offended instead.
Well when you're an 8+ you're going to have to work pretty hard to get them offended.
I think you're right about the teasing aspect, but the way they are almost from the start and the magnitude of the reactions tells me they also find him ridiculously attractive.
Fuck. New pics have definitely made a difference, which is exciting because they can be better. Match rate isn't hugely changed, but the quality of response and compliance is noticeably increased. Getting super liked is also such dopamine candy.
I'm not matching too many of the 7s on Tinder, which makes sense, but the 5s/6s are responding wayyy more positively.
On June 30 2018 01:08 L_Master wrote: PS1: I'm 28. PS2: Low yea, we kinda did lol...but great advice/discussion. Much thanks. I'll try to respond more generally.
But I'm thinking ahead of this and you will without a single doubt meet one or more women, who will test that. Read, she's gonna be so beautiful to you, will have a great mind and character etc., to make it short, you'll be blown away by her and likely fall in love later on. And having this kinda standardized way to get maximum pussy out of your Tindering would considerably lessen your chances with someone who wants more than just sex. This is a highly personal opinion, so I'm not saying this is fact or something,
Explained like this, I think it makes perfect sense and I absolutely see it being true.
So, that's the hindrance? Because I don't really understand, on the one hand you come out and say you never really had much sex to begin with and the sex you had lately all being shit, on the other hand you sound like you're doing just like you're expected to, when, at that age, you basically allowed your sexlife to dictate some of the time you have and the things you do for the first time I guess? Or am I wrong again, when I assume you never really were "a sexual guy" before
Well in HS I was so shy I didn't talk to a single girl. In college I tried to start fixing that but I still didn't do much sexually due to being incredibly inhibited. I got better at talking to women casually, but still massively inhibited in having any sort of sexual vibe. I had a few times of fingering or oral, but was too inhibited to push beyond that even though both times the girl initiated. Then from like 24-26 I was living at home chasing cycling but in a really dead city socially and I just made no effort so encounters were rare. Got better at talking to women and better about being sexual, but still had these major sex inhibs. I guess I was just worried about awkward moments or some stupid shit.
Then last year I started breaking out of that and trying to move to what I actually like, which is a dominant, sexually charged vibe (much like what you describe doing) that leads into sex that has plenty of foreplay but often turns a little aggressive towards the end. Last few months I've been trying to work on this in earnest.
The hindrance, if I had to boil it down, is probably a subtle combination of:
1) Being in my head and somehow concerned about being awkward/off (just fucking lol, but yea) 2) Being comfortable enough to have the dick working well 3) Remnants of the deeply embedded "nice, non sexual guy" mindset I grew up with
We're getting to a point where I have to double-check what you said before, because if you're not lying right now, the only possible reason for your shitty sex I can see after reading this is the actual act of sex. If you say you're comfortable on the date before you go home with her and end up having sad attempts at having sex, there can't be any other reason, since we also established you certainly looking the part.
Sometimes I have just show up at my place, but ya that's more or less accurate. I posted a few of them for sc-darkness, but you can see my tinder convos. Tbh those are pretty much the vibe and confidence level I'm looking for in person as well. I think my text "game" is quite solid. No complaints there. The interactions are fun for me, girls generally respond well, and it's effective.
Then in person it goes down a notch. If I'd give myself an 8-8.5/10 for text, I'd say maybe a 4-7/10 for in person. Definitely good days/bad days there. On my best days, I can more or less give off the same attitude/frame I'm conveying in text. Mediocre days, I have some of the sexual charge that's there but it's not quite there. Occasional bad days and for whatever reason I can't do shit.
Then actual sex is like a 2/10. Even there it's weird though. Huge number of girls have told me they love kissing me and that I'm quite good, which I'm inclined to believe. Very confident there. Oral/Fingering is interesting. Some girls I can figure out very easily what they like, others I can tell it's just not doing it for them...but then again there is a good chance this isn't necessary what I'm doing, but the attitude I'm conveying. From there though it goes more and more downhill, and between being too much in my head to stay properly hard and being worried about "performing" the actual sex is somewhere between vanilla/low key/bland to borderline non existent.
Tbh, if I can get to where I can interact in person consistently, as opposed to just sometimes, with the same sexual vibe and confidence I have over text on a regular basis, and get a little better at fucking I'll be pretty set. More than anything as you said I think it's just a matter of dropping some inhibitions and getting out of my own way.
How many times you said your dick went limp and did it do so for the entire duration? I mean there are instances where you can actually feel aroused and not get any reaction from your dick at all.
Maybe 1/3. Usually it will come around at some point, but then sometimes moving to actual sex it either goes limp in the process of positioning her or while fucking her, especially in the case of a condom.
Not a ton. That's inhib kicking in again though. My mental image of what I want has stronger language and more dirty talk in there.
Alright, one last time I'd say. I think we broke down nicely what your insecurities are, the much deeper reasons for those you'll have to figure out yourself or just ignore them like we all do. What kind of irks me is your attitude, but I will ask for forgiveness right away, as our biographies are so different. Yet, I can see a few things which are similar, so I will just list what I can think of and how I dealt with it.
I never talked much during sex when I started out. I changed that up when I realized with my 3rd gf I wanted something more out of a girl than just her pussy and a buddy to chill with. Her meaning much more to me than any previous woman I've been with helped me literally open my mouth about the things I like. Before I was like you and I believe pretty much everyone starts out this way. This is why at 28 you don't have to bother with a lot of things I had to bother with when I was at your "stage". But you will still have to work yourself through and you already knew that before I even said a word. So, I'm inclined to believe you, while testosterone turned you into a monkey for years, now you can't hold back anymore and have to do something about it. I'd just advise you to be careful what you do. Things I can't even remember happening will happen to you and they might be a big deal. They more than likely will, looking at how frenzied you are right now.
When I was talking about your attitude, I meant the way you're playing the game right now, it's pretty no holes barred and you are absolutely entitled to handle it that way. Again, I'd just like to advise you, but you're not losing any time right now, you're just 28 and you basically skipped the whole kiddie adventure to enter the dungeon directly or whatever. But since you're not in kiddie adventure anymore, your experiences - once you will be able to manage them properly, which you will in probably less time than you'd ever think - hold more consequences to them. Women who actually want your semen to get them pregnant aren't the minority anymore when you pass the magical 30. So there's that. And that's just one easily controllable thing. I'm not gonna go into details, you should know what I'm talking about by now.
You can of course just resort to the young girls, but being the older guy also means responsibility, not just in a legal sense. What people don't talk about when they jack each other off to how many women they've slept with, is the aftermath of such an encounter. Stalkers are most prominent, but actually rare. In between a legit stalker and a scorned woman is a lot of room for all sorts of "interesting" behaviours and I genuinely have been caught off guard by some of these when I first got confronted with them. When I was at my most extreme, I would juggle 5+ different girls each week, always going for the kill, no hesitating, no thinking. I wouldn't say it's life-threatening, but it can indeed be life-changing if you treat people like shit for too long, so always watch yourself.
The goal is not to treat people like shit though. I'm playing aggressive because it is fun and there is some sense of making up for lost time...but I don't think that neccessites treating people like disposable or shit.
I'm open to hearing where you're seeing it becoming easy to treat people like shit is, because I may be missing it.
Perhaps I had a different idea of what you meant by talked during sex. I was thinking sexual related talk. If you mean just conversations in general I do tend to do that, not during sex, but after.
On June 30 2018 04:00 mahrgell wrote: I think I mentioned it earlier.... but.... too many numbers!
Nobody has any idea what that means. I'm not gonna post pics so there isn't any other way of describing.
All your posts have this underlying assumption of the existence of a universal linear number scale for the desirability or looks of a person.
Which is wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to start.
Not really. No. Let's dive in. We of course need to first make it clear we are talking here only about the facial attractiveness of a person and nothing else. We all know a girl with a plain face could be much more attractive because of the appeal of her personality or any other attribute.
We also know that, without a doubt, there is variance in looks preference by individuals. However, in all but rare cases this preference is not extreme, and equally important it clusters around a certain range. I'll illustrate that with two pictures below.
The first guy is a known model who would more or less be a 9. We can do anyway with 10 because it implies perfection and there is no perfection when it comes to facial attractiveness due to variation in preference. The second guy is clearly a decent looking dude as well. Probably around a 6.
The fraction of women, or for that matter dudes, that would rank the second guy as more facially attractive than the first is almost zero. Everyone "knows" Guy A is a better looking dude than Guy B. Of course, that's an extreme difference of almost 3 points. Preference only rarely varies more than a point or two in uncommon cases. You could of course verify this by putting pictures of both on Tinder and comparing swipe rates, in which case A would outperform B by a factor of probably 10 to 1.
Moreover, no female is going to deny that guy A is hot. They might say "he's not my type" but if pressed on whether he is attractive would invariable say yes. In the case of B, some would absolutely say no he isn't.
Difference again is pretty clear. Some may argue that our bottom guy is more attractive, but most will not. -----------------------------------------
Let us now do another comparison this time between B and a new guy: + Show Spoiler +
vs
Now, the difference here are more subtle. This is only about a point of difference, a stereotypical "good looking" guy vs an average guy. Again, the majority will agree that B is more attractive than C, but the percentage that rank C as more attractive than B will be higher than the percentage by far that rated B as more attractive than A.
D is not hideous, but we are now clearly below average. Most people will rate C better than D, and most people would say that D is below average in the looks department. If D doesn't have an outgoing, excellent personality he is in big trouble when it comes to dating. At this level, Tinder is completely useless. A guy like D won't match anyone. C will get a few matches still.
---------------------------------------
Then finally we have guys who are beginning to approach being ugly.
There is no real way your going to tell me that isn't a relatively clear, ordered progression in terms of attractiveness, and if you disagree it's going to be about the placement of one picture with another. Your not going to come back and tell me that E should be ahead of C in the ordering. It's very tightly clustered within a point or two of subjective variance.
Now let's talk about why this is generally possible. It primarily comes down to why facial attractiveness even exists which is to signal better genes for better mating potential. Thus, there are a common set of features that are universally attractive.
Simple examples include:
Well defined, sharp, prominent jawline
High, prominent, forward cheekbones
Even proportioned face. bottom 1/3 = middle third = top 1/3
Facial symmetry
Dark, thick eyebrows
Relatively low, full hairline
Smooth, tan/carotene glow skin
Eyes (lots go into good eyes)
Forward projection of the face
The list goes on. These characteristics are universally attractive. If there was no relative order for looks we wouldn't have clearly attractive and clearly unattractive people. You wouldn't be able to say someone looks a little above average or a little below average, and it wouldn't be possible to design studies or predict behavior off of this. However, it has been done many, many times.
Many studies have used scales that have basically 5 assignments: unattractive, below average, average, above average, attractive. It's safe to say, given that the rate of people with deformity is incredibly low, and that the rate of people who look like top models or actors is incredibly low that we are basically working with a scale that goes from 3-7 for these studies (not like to be any 1s, 2s, 8s, or 9s as these are too rare in the general population). Which conventionality means the study managed to pack 5 distinct ratings into....5 number gaps. So the fact is many studies are essentially using a 1-10 scale as well.
There is also a pretty interesting analysis that found that the standard deviation from the mean of looks variation was about 0.45 of a point. Which isn't far off what I suggested, which is that generally for most people (2 stdr deviations worth) someone will fall within 1 point of their rating. In rare cases that might be stretched to 2 points, but that would be less than a percentage of all people look at that person (i.e. less than 1% would rate D as more attractive than B)
So the short answer is that, you're right in the sense that looks are not concretely objective. Human preference is real. That said, they are still much more objective than they are subjective, and using a number scale you can quantify facial attractiveness into effective windows that can cluster where the mean rating that person will get is.