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ZerOCoolSC2
8705 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
I don't have any real data but the youtube channel StreetBeefs has seemingly turned what would be street violence into something less dangerous, particularly for bystanders. I don't know if you guys saw the video of some older white guy assaulting a Black woman working at McDonald's because of the straw law then she defended herself by giving him the hands but I can't help but wonder if he had a gun and was in Florida could he have shot her and got away with it? | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8705 Posts
On January 06 2019 00:02 GreenHorizons wrote: What I don't understand is there are a lot of people that settle shit with guns and a LOT of them aren't any good with them and they are comparatively better fighters than shooters. They too would benefit from more mutual combat laws. I don't have any real data but the youtube channel StreetBeefs has seemingly turned what would be street violence into something less dangerous, particularly for bystanders. I don't know if you guys saw the video of some older white guy assaulting a Black woman working at McDonald's because of the straw law then she defended herself by giving him the hands but I can't help but wonder if he had a gun and was in Florida could he have shot her and got away with it? I didn't see the video but I saw a post about it. I can understand your sentiment regarding that last paragraph. And no doubt, he would have probably shot her inside McDonald's and go away with it, even though she was defending herself and complying with newly passed legislature. I wonder what MickeyD's is gonna do about it. Will they give her money for damages? Or will they fire her for violence on the job? That's how cynical I am of today's society. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On January 06 2019 00:24 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: I didn't see the video but I saw a post about it. I can understand your sentiment regarding that last paragraph. And no doubt, he would have probably shot her inside McDonald's and go away with it, even though she was defending herself and complying with newly passed legislature. I wonder what MickeyD's is gonna do about it. Will they give her money for damages? Or will they fire her for violence on the job? That's how cynical I am of today's society. She's floating on leave with pay until McDonald's can figure out how they think the PR will fall. If it wasn't viral she would most definitely be fired because she has practically no rights as a worker and it would be perfectly legal to fire her for defending herself against a customer assaulting her. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8705 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22816 Posts
The only issue with the mutual combat law is that if it isn't on video and the person who loses claims he was just assaulted or someone sucker punches some one and claims mutual combat. That being said I'm all for it I played in a non fighting hockey league I've never had so many slashes and bruises. I played in the league that allowed fighting, almost not slashing and as a team we maybe had 3-5 fights a year. I think letting people fight if there is a culture of letting it go 1 on 1 is a good thing. People need to take pride on the 1v1 no weapon aspects. People also talk a lot less shit if there is a legit chance of getting punched in the face. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On January 06 2019 02:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This reminds of the time this black guy was assaulted by 2 black women who went over the counter in McDonalds and defended himself. He got fired and no one cared. No PR problem at all. There are a lot of fights at McDonald's could you be more specific? McDonald's definitely needs better worker protections though, that much is clear. | ||
KwarK
United States40776 Posts
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Falling
Canada10904 Posts
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Excludos
Norway7685 Posts
On January 06 2019 02:03 JimmiC wrote: The PR is definitely falling in her favor, people are loving her for slugging the guy. But it does show how much it sucks to be a smallish woman because she hits him a lot cleanly and it doesn't do anything. Thank goodness it was in a public place and other could step up and it is on video. The only issue with the mutual combat law is that if it isn't on video and the person who loses claims he was just assaulted or someone sucker punches some one and claims mutual combat. That being said I'm all for it I played in a non fighting hockey league I've never had so many slashes and bruises. I played in the league that allowed fighting, almost not slashing and as a team we maybe had 3-5 fights a year. I think letting people fight if there is a culture of letting it go 1 on 1 is a good thing. People need to take pride on the 1v1 no weapon aspects. People also talk a lot less shit if there is a legit chance of getting punched in the face. There's a large likelyhood of people doing martial arts soley for the purpose of harassing other people into fighting them if they could get away with it cleanly. Where I grew up there was a group of people who did this even when it's not allowed here. They would show up at parties, antagonize someone drunk and stupid enough to follow them outside, and beat him up. Eventually they got banned from all the gyms, and people would just jump on them whenever they showed up anywhere, because it's a small'ish village and word travels fast. If it was in a city no one would probably every notice the pattern of repeated singling out and assault on whoever they came across at random. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On January 06 2019 05:50 Excludos wrote: There's a large likelyhood of people doing martial arts soley for the purpose of harassing other people into fighting them if they could get away with it cleanly. Where I grew up there was a group of people who did this even when it's not allowed here. They would show up at parties, antagonize someone drunk and stupid enough to follow them outside, and beat him up. Eventually they got banned from all the gyms, and people would just jump on them whenever they showed up anywhere, because it's a small'ish village and word travels fast. If it was in a city no one would probably every notice the pattern of repeated singling out and assault on whoever they came across at random. Provided they just beat people up without really trying to cause permanent dmg it'd probably be more effective than how we handle violent alcoholism and people with poor judgement currently. I mean the Karate Kid had it rough but I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to move to Compton. Most people would rather lose a tooth (as much as that sucks) than get paralyzed (or worse) by a bullet. But even if we turn every violent inter-person shooting into a fistfight we're still left with a lot of dead people as a result of guns. | ||
Excludos
Norway7685 Posts
On January 06 2019 07:26 GreenHorizons wrote: Provided they just beat people up without really trying to cause permanent dmg it'd probably be more effective than how we handle violent alcoholism and people with poor judgement currently. I mean the Karate Kid had it rough but I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to move to Compton. Most people would rather lose a tooth (as much as that sucks) than get paralyzed (or worse) by a bullet. But even if we turn every violent inter-person shooting into a fistfight we're still left with a lot of dead people as a result of guns. Oh I agree. However, legalising fist fights while guns are still roaming about isn't going to solve much, and if you solve the gun problem then legalising fist fights is kinda redundant while introducing a whole lot of other issues, so you might as well not. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On January 06 2019 07:29 Excludos wrote: Oh I agree. However, legalising fist fights while guns are still roaming about isn't going to solve much, and if you solve the gun problem then legalising fist fights is kinda redundant while introducing a whole lot of other issues, so you might as well not. The point is that there would also be a social component that instead of essentially "shaming" people for owning guns it would be "shaming" people for the things we don't want them to do with them. Gun owners, particularly the most "IM AN ALPHA!" types are much more receptive of an argument that says people who use guns offensively or after losing a fair fight should be filled with shame and regret than they are people telling them they're an idiot for owning guns. If it was up to me we wouldn't even talk about the bandaids and instead would only focus on the root issue which is capitalism and the way we address lingering biological and social issues. But we are where we are so turning shootings into fist fights is an improvement imo. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22816 Posts
I think that couldn't hurt. I've always thought people who need weapons are not that "tough" but that is not our culture. Some how people think it is "gangster" which people think is good, to shoot an automatic weapon out of car. Which is about the wussiest thing you can do. | ||
riotjune
United States3357 Posts
Though I've seen guys take on and handily beat other guys way bigger than them during outside bar fights using just mixed martial arts, that was something. If the big guy also knows how to fight though, uh oh. Once I saw the small guy had the other guy in an arm bar, the big dude was still somehow able to lift him up and repeatedly slam him into the ground lol | ||
JimmiC
Canada22816 Posts
On January 06 2019 23:14 riotjune wrote: Hey guns is the great equalizer. Can even make a skinny nerd stand toe to toe with a steroid infused goliath with just a pull of the trigger. My excuse for not taking combatives training seriously anyway. Though I've seen guys take on and handily beat other guys way bigger than them during outside bar fights using just mixed martial arts, that was something. If the big guy also knows how to fight though, uh oh. Once I saw the small guy had the other guy in an arm bar, the big dude was still somehow able to lift him up and repeatedly slam him into the ground lol Yeah but the cost is much higher for losing. It also lets a 3 year old kill his parents or his little sister. At least with martial arts the person must intend to hurt someone. So now instead of who is bigger and stronger the test is who is more of a sociopath and willing to kill another human over whatever slight caused them to be mad. Could just invest in some pepper spray or a taser and also protect yourself from the steroid infused goliaths that are running around rampant in your area. I get it there is 1 in 100 million chance that your home will be invaded by bandits and you have no escape and need the gun to defend your family. I've also seen the movie. It is just that the down sides are far more likely and dangerous. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22816 Posts
The context behind this question is I was thinking about my younger wilder days when I was out at the bar a ton. And only once did I get in a awful situation. I went to pee out side in a alley because the bathroom line was too long alone. I ended up having 3 dudes come up and beat me up for shits. I am glad I didn't have a gun because to me I'd rather get beaten up than shoot someone. Also, I think the type of people who get there jollies by beating someone up 3v1 would also have guns if I was in a place like this so it could have been much worse for me. Like if someone came to my house to steal my car, I would rather it get stolen than kill someone. And certainly rather have it stolen than get in a gun fight over it. Who knows who else gets hit with the bullet. I think people sometimes forget that A: there is a huge psychological cost to killing someone. B: You pulling a gun ups the chances someone else does (see the bowling alley story above) C:by you having the right to have a gun means everyone does and that includes all the people who are not responsible enough to own one. | ||
Simberto
Germany11032 Posts
On January 06 2019 23:14 riotjune wrote: Hey guns is the great equalizer. Can even make a skinny nerd stand toe to toe with a steroid infused goliath with just a pull of the trigger. My excuse for not taking combatives training seriously anyway. Though I've seen guys take on and handily beat other guys way bigger than them during outside bar fights using just mixed martial arts, that was something. If the big guy also knows how to fight though, uh oh. Once I saw the small guy had the other guy in an arm bar, the big dude was still somehow able to lift him up and repeatedly slam him into the ground lol That sounds like you regularly see people beat each other up. Is that something that people experience a lot of? Because i am quite certain that i have never seen a legitimate fight in my life. The worst i have experienced was some play-fighting in the school yard in 6th or 7th grade, but punches or kicks were basically taboo, so it usually involved trying to get some kind of painful arm hold, and was never really serious, more along the lines of teenage boys (who were all kind of friends) figuring out stuff. It seems from posts like yours that there is this whole world out there where it is completely normal that people beat each other to a pulp all the time, and i have just never intersected with it. With regards to Jimmys question, I think the only situation where shooting someone would be acceptable for me would be if i thought that they would kill me otherwise, or harm me in a way that stays with me for the rest of my live (Like hacking of an arm or something like that). Obviously, it is hard to judge whether that would happen beforehands, and as i mentioned above, these situations don't seem real to me, because i have had 0 exposure to that kind of violence so far. | ||
Excludos
Norway7685 Posts
On January 07 2019 01:37 Simberto wrote: That sounds like you regularly see people beat each other up. Is that something that people experience a lot of? Because i am quite certain that i have never seen a legitimate fight in my life. The worst i have experienced was some play-fighting in the school yard in 6th or 7th grade, but punches or kicks were basically taboo, so it usually involved trying to get some kind of painful arm hold, and was never really serious, more along the lines of teenage boys (who were all kind of friends) figuring out stuff. It seems from posts like yours that there is this whole world out there where it is completely normal that people beat each other to a pulp all the time, and i have just never intersected with it. I'm unsure how that's possible. I grew up in a rural area and there were fights at every single party I went to. I live in a city now, and while I see a lot less fights at private parties among friends, if I go out to the general club area there's a certainty I'll get to see one within 10-15 minutes. It's doubly stupid because due to the frequency, cops are stationed there all Friday and Saturday nights now, and people still can't control themselves. Can't imagine Germany would be that different from Norway in this regard. That said the few times I've been to Germany I've gotten a sense that people can handle alcohol a lot better. They don't "drink solely to get blackout drunk" as much as we do over here. | ||
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