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i wanna learn that. I know nothing about it now, and im wondering, what path should i choose, what programme to use.
I have 1 main question, mainly for people here who perhaps know more about this: If u had to start learning webpage development from scratch, what would u do? (keep in mind stuff like, what is the software of the future, what is outdated and so on...)
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There are many different technologies out there. Each one has its purpose. The best thing is to specify what you want to develop and then start thinking about the best way to do it.
HTML is basic knowledge though, so you could start with a tutorial about that.
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www.w3schools.com
- Design - Programming - Production/Project Management
Start with HTML/XHTML, move on to CSS, then Javascript, then PHP/MySQL or Flash/Action Scripting, JSP/ASP/Ruby/Perl/Etc.
Software: Text Editor with FTP capabilities Photoshop Flash
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i'd like to be able to make clean looking, simple, but functional bussiness pages for small companies.
What do these words say to you? - Dreamweaver - Nvu - Joomla
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Man, I used to be so into building websites about, oh 5-6 years ago. But yeah, mnm pretty much covered the jest of what I was gonna say, which is to learn html and move onto php eventually. I used the w3schools link back then too. And there are tons of software out there you can use. Some people even choose to do theirs from notepad or other text editors.
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agreed, HTML to PHP is the path Id take. I love to build webpages in HTML using notepad, feels like cheating if I use golive or dreamweaver or something.
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Sydney2287 Posts
Well without understanding what html is and does (It's pretty simple..) then the others won't help much, so I'd reccomend that first. After that, follow what mnm has given.
As to the software you mentioned, Dreamweaver is primarily a wysiwyg (what you see is what you get) html editor with a lot of functionality, though can give the sense that there is a lot of unnecessary features.
Nvu no clue what that is, but a quick google makes me think its an ediotr of some kind.
Joomla is a content management system I think..
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ok guys thanks, I'll start with HTML then. Any book you would recommend? (money is not the issue coz im planning on using alternate methods)
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http://www.php.net is your friend.
Dont need books for learning html. Try a simple text editor such as html kit or editplus.
I dislike using dreamweaver or frontpage nowadays but i admit that is how I started. So go for it if it helps you out. Be careful of extraneous code though. You have more control when you hand code everything. http://www.webdesignfromscratch.com/why-code-by-hand.cfm
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On June 18 2007 11:13 niteReloaded wrote: i'd like to be able to make clean looking, simple, but functional bussiness pages for small companies.
What do these words say to you? - Dreamweaver - Nvu - Joomla
- Ignore - Bull - Shit
The only useful part of Dreamweaver is the text editor, but why download a multi-MB text editor when Windows already comes with one? You're just taking up valuable Hard Drive space.
Six steps for beginners: (emphasis on beginners)
Step 1) Learn HTML basics (Hyper Text Markup Language) Step 2) Learn to use HTML 4.01 properly (in my opinion the easiest standard for beginners to follow) Step 3) Learn CSS basics (Cascading Style Sheets) Step 4) Learn to use CSS properly Step 5) Learn PHP basics (PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor) Step 6) Learn to use PHP properly
All you need is a text editor (I prefer WordPad), an FTP program (I prefer SmartFTP), and a host server to put the website on. (I use HostGator, but you should research a lot of hosts and come to your own conclusion based on your own needs. Note that you can get your first month from HostGator for a penny if you use the coupon code hgc25)
You can learn the basics of HTML and CSS with Sizzling HTML Jalfrezi. That is the site I used when I began 7 years ago, it's information is still fairly relevant. It contains an easy to navigate list of all the available HTML tags for you to use, and will tell you which browsers they work with.
W3 Schools can also aid you in learning the basics of HTML and CSS, and will guide you in producing standard compliant websites. To ensure your websites are standards compliant you can check them with the W3C Quality Assurance Markup Validation Service. The validator will list all the problems with your websites coding, and will guide you in correcting them. Consider it the Grammar Check for your HTML tags and Style Sheets.
I don't think there is any better website to learn PHP than PHP.net itself. It is the only website I ever used and has never failed me, but someone else might know a more beginner friendly website?
Following those steps will turn you from a beginner to a pro in no time. Some people don't bother following the standards for website development and don't care if they use valid code or not, just look at how bad TeamLiquid fails. You can get away with not using standard coding, however it is very important for businesses as it ensures your website can be viewed in most browsers, mobile devices, and can even be accessed by the blind using special technologies. By not following standards you radically reduce your number of possible online visitors.
Also bear in mind these extra bonus steps:
Step 7) Learn Photoshop basics
If you want custom graphics for your website then Photoshop is your best bet. I still use version 7 because I've become really comfortable with it, however there are newer versions out there. Search Google for tutorials to help you. Keep in mind that for professional businesses you may want to stick to simple graphics, don't go too overboard or you'll distract customers. Look at company logos and you'll see they are extremely simple compared to what Photoshop can do.
Step 8) Learn Javascript basics
PHP is a very powerful tool that can do pretty much anything, but there are things you may require Javascript for. It can do some neat tricks.
Step 9) Convert your website to a newer standard
I suggested using HTML 4.01 because it is the easiest standard for beginners who are learning. Once you feel you've mastered all the previous steps you should try converting your websites to the XHTML 1.0 standard. In reality, simple HTML is outdated, over the past few years it has been slowly replaced by XHTML. In many ways XHTML is not perfect, and XHTML 2.0 is currently being drafted to correct some issues, but it is the way of the future.
The wikipedia articles on HTML, XHTML, and standards issues are fairly accurate and are a good read if you're interested in learning the differences.
Hope this post helps. And if you skipped everything I've said so far I guess I could sum it up with this line: I seriously hate Dreamweaver.
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^ that looks like the long winded version of what i said
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I've been typing it up long before you posted
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Nice. This is exactly the info i needed. Just one question guys, I've being learning PERL on and off for like 6 months, how often is it used in today's web dev? what kinda of work is it primarly needed for?
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I do not recommend learning from php.net or w3schools. Unless you have a programming background to begin with, it is going to be very overwhelming to try and learn from those sites if you're just starting out. Invest in a good php/msql and css book. They'll go for 20-30 dollars each and are well worth it. A good book is way more convenient and way more easier to learn from than trying to navigate through various tutorial websites and forums.
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Books are unnecessary, all the information they give can be found for free on the internet. The links I provided are beginner friendly, I learnt from them with no initial programming knowledge.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Web design is a lot like programming. A lot of actual, sophisticated web design is more about realizing a creative vision than anything else, but that doesn't mean that the nuts and bolts of implementation is simple or straightforward.
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5377 Posts
I agree with the HTML => CSS => PHP path, it's easiest to understand yet powerful enough to get stuff done.
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learn based on need. i basically get ideas on what would be cool then i google research to implement it
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On June 18 2007 15:10 haduken wrote: Nice. This is exactly the info i needed. Just one question guys, I've being learning PERL on and off for like 6 months, how often is it used in today's web dev? what kinda of work is it primarly needed for?
You can basically build an entire website in PERL. Usually, this language is prefered when you have to work with files because it is faster than PHP for instance. On the opposite, it is harder to handle to build a simple webpage. So, as usual in computer science, you have to mix the technologies basing on your needs.
And for all the people who want to go into developping , don't be lazy and try to code things "clean". It will be a good profit on the long run. For instance, i have always considered HTML and CSS as useless things and i just learned the table and few css attributes like border and so on. Now i appreciate the fact to develop using proper html and css. Not mainly for the beauty of the code but because now, with the interaction between data and webserver (and the web 2.0,3.0 thing), it just makes your site much more powerfull and easy to maintain.
And also, don't be afraid to learn new things because nowadays , people always want what's look good and some flashy things. For intance, you will hear a lot about flash (wich i hate but i admit that it adds some dynamic touch which is appreciated by your customers) or AJAX (which i like it even if it has been around for many years and it seems taht people just discover it...) that can add some dynamics things too.
Web developping is such a large field that it is very difficult to be " a must " in all the components that it embeds.
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Oh yea, beware of flash.
I didn't suggest learning flash because flash files tend to be really big and slow on dial up connections, and the majority of internet users around the world are still on 56k and can't view flash as easily as high speed users.
Businesses should avoid using it. Some, like Blizzard, can use flash because they market their games toward high-speed users. But unless your businesses market to high-speed users I suggest avoiding it all together.
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Here\'s a basic rundown (I guess it\'s similar to what other people have said):
The first thing you MUST know is a language for website structure. A lot of other things are needed for an effective website, but they are all useless if you can\'t display them. The basic language for structuring a page is HTML, but if you\'re looking to do some web programming work now, you\'d be better off using XHTML. It\'s pretty similar to HTML syntax anyway and it\'s essential with the XML popularity explosion.
Next you need to know how to design the page\'s style. As said by everyone else, CSS is the obligatory way to go. CSS is really, really easy to learn and use, and it really makes everything clean.
In theory, you could make a website just with those two things, but pure XHTML/CSS is laughable for a project of any complexity. What you need next is a scripting language. PHP is a very popular choice (look at the teamliquid page for example, having a .php extension), as is ASP.net (I\'m sure you\'ve seen some .aspx pages as well). Since you have no prior knowledge of any of this, I think you should just go with PHP.
PHP has many useful functions, but by far the most widespread use of it is with databases. For example, when you register on teamliquid, you enter a user id, password, and give some personal info. All this information needs to be stored somewhere so that it can be called upon later. PHP connects to the database and takes the needed information, so that you can output it to the page. When you visit this thread, PHP goes into teamliquid\'s database and gets the information for the posts (post contents, id of user who posted it, date, the person\'s quote, etc) and displays it.
In my opinion the easiest database to use would be MYSQL. It\'s popular, easy, and there\'s a ton of help out there for using it with PHP since the combination is used a lot. For managing the database, you can use a nice thing called \"phpmyadmin\" which goes on your web server. It\'s possible to manage the database manually through PHP scripts, but phpmyadmin makes it really easy and convenient.
Javascript can be useful I guess, but I don\'t like it because some people turn off scripting for security reasons. Plus, a lot of javascript\'s uses can be done in other languages (you can do navigation in pure CSS with ease, for example).
There are a ton of other options out there (XML is a big one, but I don\'t want to go into detail), but XHTML/CSS/PHP/MYSQL are a good way to establish yourself.
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and w3schools is a great place to start!
edit: I've been through a few books, but the most useful one I've ever had is "CSS Pocket Reference." It's a great reference book in case you have questions on syntax/properties.
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u will get nowhere designing for gamesites if you dont know flash. know your audience.. if its for corporate businesses they dont need it as much..
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Which is basically what I just said. We really should stop repeating each other...
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On March 15 2019 19:06 Manit0u wrote:If you want to go with PHP instead of Python (I prefer PHP but knowing Python opens up a lot more door and different career paths if you need it, and it's easy to switch languages later on anyway I'd recommend you start with that) then you shouldn't really go with pure PHP or some dumbfuck stuff like WordPress, Joomla or other utter crap like that. If you want to git gud you'll have to dive into a proper framework (and in case of PHP this means Symfony). nice bump! i'm a PHP guy as well.
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