|
Greetings community, I wanted to share my opinions about introducing new players into this game and common misconceptions that this community have about it. First of all, I can be considered as new player because I play this game for 1,5 year. This game is the best player vs player game that I have played, and as RTS enthusiast, my favorite RTS game of all! I switched from DOTA 2, that I have played for 1-2 years, since beta. DOTA 2 is good but as team game its not my type of game. Also, compared to Starcraft, its very easy to learn how to play game, but progressing through ranked play is difficult as hell, and the fact that its a team game makes it even more difficult. Now the fact with Starcraft is that its a lot more difficult to learn and master, but progressing through leagues in 1v1 is much easier than progressing trough MMR system of a team game.
Now, what is the reason that a lot of people play DOTA 2, LoL and CSGO than Starcraft? I see that community thinks that macro and game mechanics make it difficult for players to learn the game but I don't think that is a problem. Main problem is that new players don't have any source or proper tutorials to learn the game. When I started playing DOTA 2, first thing that I found is DotaCinema Youtube channel. They had huge series of tutorials, that covered basically everything related to the game - from game mechanics, to heroes explanation and introduction to them, and items and explanations, role explanations and how to play each role, EVERYTHING that you need to learn the game! I have watched those videos, that don't last for long (10-30 minutes max.) and for one week of watching I have learned how to play support like almost a pro. Also that channel provides top 10 videos, highlights from tournaments, introduction to new things etc... That channel became model for many other video game channels. Starcraft however don't have such channels. Day9 videos last for WAY too long than they should and after I watched some of his videos, he didn't really explained anything properly, and he talks for too long some useless things in the video. When I started playing, I expected to find some good channels and learn how to play, but that wasn't quite the case.
Magnet's Starcraft Tutorials is the channel that helped me learn at least basics of the game (also special shoutout to him). Also LowkoTV (and shoutout to him) helped me with his tutorials for zerg especially. With his tutorials I jumped from silver to platinum, and from platinum later to diamond (where I am now). But tutorials only aren't enough. Tournament highlights is also very important thing, and there is no such channel available. I don't consider SC2HL channel, because they upload very small amount of videos, and they highlights are only fun ones. They don't highlight whole game and important moments, for which I think that is very important, and much more useful than watching whole VODs that can last minimum 1 hour. Great example of such channel with highlights is NoobfromUA that highlight DOTA 2 tournaments. He highlight everything. All tournaments and all games and pretty much everything.
And the last thing that I wanted to indicate is casting of tournaments. When I started watching first tournaments, I couldn't figure out what is going on in the game, because casters were only saying "OH he is doing that" or "O my God this is soo huge", and Tastosis, that doesn't cast anything, only speak some random things. For me Tasteless and Artosis are the worst and most overrated casters ever. Perfect example of great casting is TobiwanDOTA. He is definitely best caster in whole esports, and his casting is both passionate and professional! This highlight shows how good his casting is. He points out on every single detail that is going on at that moment in the game. There is not a single caster in Starcraft that castes like that. And casting tournaments like that is very important for new players to realize what is going on, and to know when they find themselves in similar situation in game what to do, and to understand the game and meta in general.
Those are by far the most important things that need to be changed. There are many other things that Valve is doing to get and keep their players that Blizzard should do for example, like microtransactions and unlocking stuff after games. Those are very cool additions to the game, that doesn't ruin the balance or anything of the game, but gives income to the Blizzard and helps further production and improvement of the game, adds more money for prize pools and gathers mass of new players as well.
Also about this community. Compared to DOTA 2 community for example, SC2 community is great mannered and least toxic, but you guys need to learn to adapt on change, especially retro-BW players. You guys seem to not realize that SC2 is made to be different from BW and that it should stay like that. I never liked BW tbh, but I love SC2. I know that SC2 can stay like this and be good and even better than BW, but community need to give constructive advice to them, not like "This game is shit, give us BW" and that stuff. I was shocked when I heard that PRO players influenced Blizzard to release at least patches as possible, because they could not adapt to the game and create meta. That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard. Valve releases patches for their games very often, and community doesn't complain. And I thing that SC should also be patched like LotV was in beta, until everything comes to its place. And Blizzard should change their stubborn politic about Starcraft, and make Starcraft as profitable and playable as Hearthstone, for example, but not to dumb down game, but to stay as it always was. And also very important message to content creators and those who would like to be such, I hope that you will read this text and that it will give you idea for good content that you can make, and help community, new player and to this game as well! This is it from me, I hope that you guys will acknowledge what I said in this text, and thanks for reading!
Mod Edit: I made an edit to make your post more readable. If you are unhappy with it, I put a copy of the original in the spoiler. ~BisuDagger + Show Spoiler [Unformatted post] +Greetings community, I wanted to share my opinions about introducing new players into this game and common misconceptions that this community have about it. First of all, I can be considered as new player because I play this game for 1,5 year. This game is the best player vs player game that I have played, and as RTS enthusiast, my favorite RTS game of all! I switched from DOTA 2, that I have played for 1-2 years, since beta. DOTA 2 is good but as team game its not my type of game. Also, compared to Starcraft, its very easy to learn how to play game, but progressing through ranked play is difficult as hell, and the fact that its a team game makes it even more difficult. Now the fact with Starcraft is that its a lot more difficult to learn and master, but progressing through leagues in 1v1 is much easier than progressing trough MMR system of a team game. Now, what is the reason that a lot of people play DOTA 2, LoL and CSGO than Starcraft? I see that community thinks that macro and game mechanics make it difficult for players to learn the game but I don't think that is a problem. Main problem is that new players don't have any source or proper tutorials to learn the game. When I started playing DOTA 2, first thing that I found is DotaCinema Youtube channel. They had huge series of tutorials, that covered basically everything related to the game - from game mechanics, to heroes explanation and introduction to them, and items and explanations, role explanations and how to play each role, EVERYTHING that you need to learn the game! I have watched those videos, that don't last for long (10-30 minutes max.) and for one week of watching I have learned how to play support like almost a pro. Also that channel provides top 10 videos, highlights from tournaments, introduction to new things etc... That channel became model for many other video game channels. Starcraft however don't have such channels. Day9 videos last for WAY too long than they should and after I watched some of his videos, he didn't really explained anything properly, and he talks for too long some useless things in the video. When I started playing, I expected to find some good channels and learn how to play, but that wasn't quite the case. Magnet's Starcraft Tutorials is the channel that helped me learn at least basics of the game (also special shoutout to him). Also LowkoTV (and shoutout to him) helped me with his tutorials for zerg especially. With his tutorials I jumped from silver to platinum, and from platinum later to diamond (where I am now). But tutorials only aren't enough. Tournament highlights is also very important thing, and there is no such channel available. I don't consider SC2HL channel, because they upload very small amount of videos, and they highlights are only fun ones. They don't highlight whole game and important moments, for which I think that is very important, and much more useful than watching whole VODs that can last minimum 1 hour. Great example of such channel with highlights is NoobfromUA that highlight DOTA 2 tournaments. He highlight everything. All tournaments and all games and pretty much everything. And the last thing that I wanted to indicate is casting of tournaments. When I started watching first tournaments, I couldn't figure out what is going on in the game, because casters were only saying "OH he is doing that" or "O my God this is soo huge", and Tastosis, that doesn't cast anything, only speak some random things. For me Tasteless and Artosis are the worst and most overrated casters ever. Perfect example of great casting is TobiwanDOTA. He is definitely best caster in whole esports, and his casting is both passionate and professional! This highlight shows how good his casting is. He points out on every single detail that is going on at that moment in the game. There is not a single caster in Starcraft that castes like that. And casting tournaments like that is very important for new players to realize what is going on, and to know when they find themselves in similar situation in game what to do, and to understand the game and meta in general. Those are by far the most important things that need to be changed. There are many other things that Valve is doing to get and keep their players that Blizzard should do for example, like microtransactions and unlocking stuff after games. Those are very cool additions to the game, that doesn't ruin the balance or anything of the game, but gives income to the Blizzard and helps further production and improvement of the game, adds more money for prize pools and gathers mass of new players as well. Also about this community. Compared to DOTA 2 community for example, SC2 community is great mannered and least toxic, but you guys need to learn to adapt on change, especially retro-BW players. You guys seem to not realize that SC2 is made to be different from BW and that it should stay like that. I never liked BW tbh, but I love SC2. I know that SC2 can stay like this and be good and even better than BW, but community need to give constructive advice to them, not like "This game is shit, give us BW" and that stuff. I was shocked when I heard that PRO players influenced Blizzard to release at least patches as possible, because they could not adapt to the game and create meta. That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard. Valve releases patches for their games very often, and community doesn't complain. And I thing that SC should also be patched like LotV was in beta, until everything comes to its place. And Blizzard should change their stubborn politic about Starcraft, and make Starcraft as profitable and playable as Hearthstone, for example, but not to dumb down game, but to stay as it always was. And also very important message to content creators and those who would like to be such, I hope that you will read this text and that it will give you idea for good content that you can make, and help community, new player and to this game as well!This is it from me, I hope that you guys will acknowledge what I said in this text, and thanks for reading!
|
I don't think that's the major problem, reddit and TL are full of resources to help beginners (TL help me thread, build of the week on reddit, etc). SC2 is just too hard and unforgiving to be really mainstream imo.
|
On September 21 2015 04:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't think that's the major problem, reddit and TL are full of resources to help beginners (TL help me thread, build of the week on reddit, etc). SC2 is just too hard and unforgiving to be really mainstream imo. I think it is, because listening to someone in video and such explanation is much more useful than reading and searching on Team Liquid site. Don't forget that this site is very non ergonomic and it took me very long time to figure out what is what on this site. EDIT: Also the fact about SC2 being hard and unforgiving, every game is hard and unforgiving, especially if you can't learn it... :S
|
On September 21 2015 04:57 Bastinian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 04:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't think that's the major problem, reddit and TL are full of resources to help beginners (TL help me thread, build of the week on reddit, etc). SC2 is just too hard and unforgiving to be really mainstream imo. I think it is, because listening to someone in video and such explanation is much more useful than reading and searching on Team Liquid site. Don't forget that this site is very non ergonomic and it took me very long time to figure out what is what on this site. I could do pretty good videos for HotS because my builds and the way I tend to play in general are extremely noob friendly. Working as a math teacher, I love to share knowledge, so if I have some success at the beginning of LotV I'll definitely do some "SC2 course" series.
|
On September 21 2015 04:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 04:57 Bastinian wrote:On September 21 2015 04:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't think that's the major problem, reddit and TL are full of resources to help beginners (TL help me thread, build of the week on reddit, etc). SC2 is just too hard and unforgiving to be really mainstream imo. I think it is, because listening to someone in video and such explanation is much more useful than reading and searching on Team Liquid site. Don't forget that this site is very non ergonomic and it took me very long time to figure out what is what on this site. I could do pretty good videos for HotS because my builds are extremely noob friendly. Working as a math teacher, I love to share knowledge, so if I have some success at the beginning of LotV I'll definitely do some "SC2 course" series.
I will support your channel!
|
On September 21 2015 05:08 Bastinian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 04:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 21 2015 04:57 Bastinian wrote:On September 21 2015 04:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't think that's the major problem, reddit and TL are full of resources to help beginners (TL help me thread, build of the week on reddit, etc). SC2 is just too hard and unforgiving to be really mainstream imo. I think it is, because listening to someone in video and such explanation is much more useful than reading and searching on Team Liquid site. Don't forget that this site is very non ergonomic and it took me very long time to figure out what is what on this site. I could do pretty good videos for HotS because my builds are extremely noob friendly. Working as a math teacher, I love to share knowledge, so if I have some success at the beginning of LotV I'll definitely do some "SC2 course" series. I will support your channel! hope LotV is good, if I enjoy it I'll definitely make something
|
On September 21 2015 04:57 Bastinian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 04:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't think that's the major problem, reddit and TL are full of resources to help beginners (TL help me thread, build of the week on reddit, etc). SC2 is just too hard and unforgiving to be really mainstream imo. I think it is, because listening to someone in video and such explanation is much more useful than reading and searching on Team Liquid site. Don't forget that this site is very non ergonomic and it took me very long time to figure out what is what on this site. EDIT: Also the fact about SC2 being hard and unforgiving, every game is hard and unforgiving, especially if you can't learn it... :S
It's unfortunate you feel that way. I agree that there is not a standard new player thread in the game like you would hope there would be. There are a lot of resources about helping new players. I write threads about different aspects to help new players frequently for example my recent thread about blizzcon or the mega resource guide or the comprehensive sc2 guide. There is the new player reddit as mentioned, a free coaching thread, and day9 made extensive videos to learn starcraft. I know magnet in real life and we have both spent time on this. I often participated in free coaching of new players and players trying to gain leagues. You have to realize that these threads aren't very popular at this time.
|
I think Starcraft casting requires very different skills from other esports. You can't compare it to Dota 2, where the battles are dense and covered with effects and colors and various spells that aren't visually intuitive. But watching, and understanding the basic gist of a starcraft game, isn't very hard; you can grasp the flow of a simple pro game very, very quickly. Stuff like positioning, splits, destructive AOE, concaves, and surrounds are very easy to understand, and since most of the viewership of Starcraft comes from players who already understand what's going on, no one wants purely descriptive play-by-play casting that is barely necessary for new players anyway.
Nor do I think new players lack tutorials, as you say. There's a lot of resources out there--there's a zillion guides for all levels on TL, Day9 has a huge amount of videos targeting new players, there are many noob-friendly streams. The main barrier is that the game is overwhelming, possibly at any level, and this can't be changed by content creators. There's only so much you can learn from tutorials; you really need to play Starcraft to understand even the simplest aspects of the game, and I think that's something that clearly separates Starcraft from other games.
Nor can you balance Starcraft like Dota, as you claim. Constant patches don't work as well in an RTS because they throw everything out of whack. In Dota, if a hero is OP, you can ban it. If a commonly used hero is nerfed so it isn't that great anymore, you can learn another one. Also, there isn't asymmetric balance. In Starcraft, if a unit is OP (which will happen often if the game is patched often,) then you can't get rid of it. If a core unit is nerfed, it affects almost everything across 1 matchup, or more.
|
On September 21 2015 06:38 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: I think Starcraft casting requires very different skills from other esports. You can't compare it to Dota 2, where the battles are dense and covered with effects and colors and various spells that aren't visually intuitive. But watching, and understanding the basic gist of a starcraft game, isn't very hard; you can grasp the flow of a simple pro game very, very quickly. Stuff like positioning, splits, destructive AOE, concaves, and surrounds are very easy to understand, and since most of the viewership of Starcraft comes from players who already understand what's going on, no one wants purely descriptive play-by-play casting that is barely necessary for new players anyway.
Nor do I think new players lack tutorials, as you say. There's a lot of resources out there--there's a zillion guides for all levels on TL, Day9 has a huge amount of videos targeting new players, there are many noob-friendly streams. The main barrier is that the game is overwhelming, possibly at any level, and this can't be changed by content creators. There's only so much you can learn from tutorials; you really need to play Starcraft to understand even the simplest aspects of the game, and I think that's something that clearly separates Starcraft from other games.
Nor can you balance Starcraft like Dota, as you claim. Constant patches don't work as well in an RTS because they throw everything out of whack. In Dota, if a hero is OP, you can ban it. If a commonly used hero is nerfed so it isn't that great anymore, you can learn another one. Also, there isn't asymmetric balance. In Starcraft, if a unit is OP (which will happen often if the game is patched often,) then you can't get rid of it. If a core unit is nerfed, it affects almost everything across 1 matchup, or more.
Well everything you said here is what I couldn't really figure out when I started playing, and what was blocking me for probably half year. Those things should be changed, because nowadays, you can continue playing only with strong mentality as it was thing for me, but most players will refuse to play this game as it looks unwelcoming without any way to help them. I think for example that Automated Tournaments are good start, but there is so much to be done.
|
You have to realize that these threads aren't very popular at this time.
Well community have to face the truth. Everybody complains about game popularity, and I want to say what should be changed as new player myself.
|
The problem is, all of these quality videos and resources can only exist as a result of popularity of the game. If a game is not popular, less people are exposed to it meaning that there is a smaller chance of someone with video skills to know about the game and decide to make videos about it. Also, if videos are made but the game isn't popular, it will not get many views and those video makers will eventually quit or move to another game because of lack of profit.
I do agree though, that having tutorials, videos, and streams was really helpful and fun when I was first learning the game.
|
Interesting comments, OP.
It's very difficult to pin down why something is popular, or why it is not. Usually ends up being anecdotal experience and speculation. *shrugs*
As for some of the points you mentioned: there are volumes of high-quality content for people to research the game in more detail, if they want to excel in the multiplayer segment of the game. I disagree that there is a lack of engaging and useful content for new players.
The casting can be an issue. Sure. But, in general, eSports casting is much more noob-friendly (for lack of a better term) than many high-profile professional sports; ATP, NFL, and NBA, in particular. NHL is pretty good, because they know they are not super mainstream.
You're wrong about Artosis and Tasteless. Plain and simple.
Welcome to the game, and thanks for your passion! I hope you enjoy your stay.
|
The problem I see right now in SC2 is just this huge emphasis in catering toward ranked play and in general its competitive nature. Why is there this thing called unranked when it could be simple called "normal mode"? This is because the whole sc2 structures of play RELY upon ranked play, only catering toward the super competitive crowd that plays hardcore. Not even the pros wants to play hardcore all the time. Sometimes its fun to just mess around and have it not matter, and this sort of condemnation on unranked play (simply through naming it unranked, as it assumes ranked as the "standard" mode of play) or simply play is huge for the sc2 community.
There is simply too big of a gap between hardcore players and non-hardcore players that have developed since WOL. With the arcade being a massive success in generating good content, and the free to play aspect being open to only the arcade, people are never going to get into real SC2 as there isn't an environment where they can play for fun and mess around.
Another thing is that the uber-fast paced gameplay makes learning in game almost impossible. One mistake means a lost game, that means needing the player to que up for another game that they might already be feeling not good about. There is just huge varieties of strategies that instantly kill you if you are unprepared.(i'm looking at you oracles. It feels crap to play against. Where was that non-violent harass idea that Blizzard have been trying out?)
In SC2, the skill needed to execute offensive strategy is vastly less than the skill needed for the defending player, which is the main core of the frustration. You can be in bronze but still just drop widow mines and kill the enemy's entire mineral line. But if you are in bronze and you got widow mine dropped, you better just gg since the micro needed is just so much higher than pressing that e to burrow the mine.
Again, the main point of frustration I feel is that in two player with equal skills, OFFENSE always wins the game, which makes new players feel just so much worse because new players tends to play defense and the skill actually needed for defense is so much higher than just making an oracle, dt, banshee, mutalisk flock, and massacring any unprepared player.
|
Agree in common. But there is a problem. MOBA games not changing every 2 years as sc2 do. Every tutorial obsolete after new part out. I hope that we stay with Lotv for next 16 years before blizzard decide to earn new portion of money on this universe, so new recorded tutorials will be actual for years. As I know only Lowko has good youtube channel, other streamers just publish records of their streams. But it is very interesting to watch how pro playing on twich especialy if they comment what they do (Morrow, RootCatZ for example).
|
TBH, I think one of the biggest barriers to entry/learning is that in LoL, Dota, CS:GO you are playing WITH people. In SC2, the primary mode is 1v1.
Let me explain. So if I want to learn how to play LoL or dota or CSGO with my friends, we play together, they walk me through what to do AS THE GAME IS PLAYING. They support my mistakes (or in GO they can also watch my FPV). Also my mistakes don't hurt that much as I'm only 1/5 of the team. This makes the learning process fun/adaptable as my friends got my back.
In SC2, the primary mode is 1v1. While we can play together and friends can teach new players during team games (similar to what I stated above), most of the guides are applicable only to 1v1. And the sentiment across most of the community is: learn to be good at 1v1, in order to be a better player. This is the barrier that stops as it is not often that your friends can obs your 1v1 game sitting beside you and coach you.
|
I agree with the lack of resources for new players, but a big part of that I feel has to do with how sc2 works. People have pointed out correctly that we have accumulated an enormous collection of resources over the years, but a huge proportion of those are really semi-obsolete. The "meta" changes too rapidly in sc2 and yet the state of the "meta" is also a lot more important to playing sc2 than for eg with dota - where a basic hero guide written a year and a half ago is still very likely to be pretty useful today, whereas a reasonable beginner macro build in sc2 devised a year and a half ago is fairly likely to be no good at all anymore now. In dota also you could reasonably have a single fairly integrated tutorial on a hero that covers how you play against just about any other hero combination, whereas this is much harder in sc2, where playing against each race is incredibly different, with all kinds of different things to look out for, so that you can't really even just memorize a "one build with minor variations" but you actually gotta pick up at least 3 builds to start functioning. This means on the one hand that the average beginner needs MORE material to really get started than they would for say dota, and consequentially that the sc2 community has a lot more work to do if they wanted to maintain comprehensive and relevant material for new people picking up the game. In other words, the root problem I feel actually IS complexity.
|
I agree that there could be more content for new players. I think the bigger problem is because starcraft 2 is such a complex game the learning resources are spread over many different locations and sometimes they contradict each other. Also the most difficult thing for a new player are the mechanics however most beginner contect is mostly about strategy. Because learning mechanics is not as fun as learning strategy for most people it always becomes a question of how much fun they want to sacrifice in order to improve faster. I think it would be very useful to have a collection of all the useful content and have it sorted by for example: expansion, difficulty, efficiency, fun factor.
|
On September 21 2015 04:51 Bastinian wrote:Main problem is that new players don't have any source or proper tutorials to learn the game. When I started playing DOTA 2, first thing that I found is DotaCinema Youtube channel. They had huge series of tutorials, that covered basically everything related to the game - from game mechanics, to heroes explanation and introduction to them, and items and explanations, role explanations and how to play each role, EVERYTHING that you need to learn the game! [...] Starcraft however don't have such channels. Day9 videos last for WAY too long than they should and after I watched some of his videos, he didn't really explained anything properly, and he talks for too long some useless things in the video. When I started playing, I expected to find some good channels and learn how to play, but that wasn't quite the case. Magnet's Starcraft Tutorials is the channel that helped me learn at least basics of the game (also special shoutout to him). Also LowkoTV (and shoutout to him) helped me with his tutorials for zerg especially. With his tutorials I jumped from silver to platinum, and from platinum later to diamond (where I am now). So what exactly would u like to have explained? Are u just complaining about the information not being on one single channel? U have just named a few ppl that create tutorials. Can u give me some examples as to what u were missing when trying to learn the game?
On September 21 2015 04:51 Bastinian wrote:But tutorials only aren't enough. Tournament highlights is also very important thing, and there is no such channel available. I don't consider SC2HL channel, because they upload very small amount of videos, and they highlights are only fun ones. They don't highlight whole game and important moments, for which I think that is very important, and much more useful than watching whole VODs that can last minimum 1 hour. Great example of such channel with highlights is NoobfromUA that highlight DOTA 2 tournaments. He highlight everything. All tournaments and all games and pretty much everything. What does tournament highlights have to do with the popularity of the game itself? I do not see a direct correspondence. If ppl do not like the game, why would they watch anything in the first place. Also the games in Sc2 tend to not last that long compared to LoL or DOTA. And with the changes that LotV is bringing that time is even more shortened. And to be honest, in Sc2 there are not that many situations in a game that are worth highlighting anyways. U could sum them up in a few minutes at most. SC2HL is doing a good job imo.
On September 21 2015 04:51 Bastinian wrote: And the last thing that I wanted to indicate is casting of tournaments. When I started watching first tournaments, I couldn't figure out what is going on in the game, because casters were only saying "OH he is doing that" or "O my God this is soo huge", and Tastosis, that doesn't cast anything, only speak some random things. For me Tasteless and Artosis are the worst and most overrated casters ever. I do not know the other scenes/ communities that well. But yea, Sc2 has too many casters that lack simple game knowledge. They just do not know the game very well and focus on explaining what they actually see. There are also casters that do what u just mentioned. And there are also ones that do a good job. Regarding Tastosis, I am fully with u. I do not like how they cast. Especially Tasteless seems to not be playing too much (if at all). That's the impression I get listening him cast.
On September 21 2015 04:51 Bastinian wrote:Perfect example of great casting is TobiwanDOTA. He is definitely best caster in whole esports, and his casting is both passionate and professional! This highlight shows how good his casting is. He points out on every single detail that is going on at that moment in the game. There is not a single caster in Starcraft that castes like that. And casting tournaments like that is very important for new players to realize what is going on, and to know when they find themselves in similar situation in game what to do, and to understand the game and meta in general. No, I disagree. The main purpose of casting is not education/ teaching in terms of improvement of the viewers' skill. And especially not if the caster is talking relentlessly without breathing. That is not educational. That is entertaining and hyping. But of course u want casters to explain whats going on on the map and what that means for the development in the next minutes etc. Even tho that guy u linked might be a good caster, he is not supporting ur arguments.
|
Czech Republic12116 Posts
Tastostis - you just have different taste You cannot say they are doing it wrong, I think they are doing the best possible job in the business(after Apollo-Artosis). I come from football(soccer) background and I love the way football is casted. They do not say that much what is happening on the field - that's the point of radio cast! They are just filling the void between actions. And once the action starts they move to say what is actually happening(exactly what Tastosis does). I really hate casters who go "A passes to B, B passes to C, C passes to B, B passes to C, C passes to A, A passes to B" forever. It. Is. Boring. The same way is boring if you hear every f-king time that Catallena is bad for PvT, because Protoss suffers from drops. It is the problem which can be summed by "Ohana means family". Redeye talked about this in some of his interviews too.
I agree that SC2 cast isn't that noob friendly. It cannot be. You can talk about some SC2 related things at the start, but that's hard to keep versatile because, lets face it, the maps are always the same and after a day of GSL you would hate those maps and that was just the 1 day and another 7 are following(ro32). And then the same you would hear in S*L, and then again in WCS! Also how are you supposed to cast a fight in SC2 in a noob friendly way when nowadays you have problem to see all the fights(Maru usually fights on 3 screens) and fights are fast. I mean really fast. In 3 seconds your army can wiped. Try it yourself in your native language - say what's happening during the fight in a clear slow voice, so everybody can understand you(not only native speakers). You won't make it.
What we really miss is a post game analysis. And I don't mean the void filling parody of 3 guys analysis desk. We need a post game studio for about 20 minutes(or more) where they will talk about what happened, why it happened in each game, they will take the best moment of the day, talk about it, bring the advancing player for some longer interview and insights about his games. THIS would help noobs. Because they would see that soO is injecting while he's amoving and doesn't give a fuck about his army micro(please, exaggerating, don't take it literally ) and then soO would tell them, that precise macro > the rest. They would also see that positioning and preparation of the army has huge impact(yes, talking about Maru attacking from 3 screens). This is the show that can hit noobs, HC players, casuals. Everyone. Sadly, once the day is done the stream is cut
BTW - Tasteless still has a very good knowledge about the game. He just doesn't show it(the last GSL he dropped a high quality knowledge bomb no one expected it) and I don't get why. ____
Day9 - I agree. Day9 made mostly shows which means his dailies have more than some guides. But still - he made few dailies which are the best tutorials so far(I think there are 3 - hotkeys, macro and analyzing the game).
And yes, the SC2 doesn't have the coverage it had during WoL times. Yes, now we don't have 4 tutorials for each build made by a creator of good content(back then Day9, Husky, HDStarcraft, Apollo(he had the best SC2 tutorial youtube channel IMO), Artosis - just naming some of them). I miss Apollo so much. His work is outdated now, but check his channel, he did exactly what you miss(IMO).
You know, it's about popularity. If you are covering a game which has 30 000 000 players, you can go full content creator for this game. SC2 has around 300 000 players in 1v1(nios states 250 000 accounts in ranked, I added 50 000 for unranked and to compensate that some accounts are owned by the same person). That's the hard part, without community you cannot make good channel and live from it, you need other games and therefore you don't have the content you desire(Destiny talked few times about this during The Late Game show).
You were not here during the WoL, that's the time when we had all these nice things, now we are in a different spot. _____ And, the last thing, Jakatak started his initiative to help new people. And I think it's pretty good(I don't participate). Maybe it need more coverage, not sure how much it is mentioned on "starting pages"(meaning on pages which are often used as the starting point for new players).
Anyway, I hope you will enjoy the game and stay with us. But bringing this thing on TL.net isn't good thing, since this community is old and remembers the times when we had most of the things you mentioned. And we don't have them now because reasons
|
When WOL first came out there were alot of people paying pros to train them over stream, and then posting the VODS. That helped the community immensely. Over time those videos have mostly disappeared. But this definitely needs to return for LOTV, very good you brought this up and hopefully Blizzard is listening and deploys one of their casters to specialize in this; or perhaps a PRO player can take advantage of the opportunity. Definitely there's the opportunity.
Usually you need to brainstorm your own solutions to problems. But certainly there are general basics which can be covered, like how to go 2 base muta, how to open pool / gas / ling speed, how to open with fast pool, how to defend hatch 1st from 4 gate, etc. (all generally speaking)
Probably easier just to post a bunch of live PROs training noobs instead of take such a formal approach as creating guides.
For tastosis, they're my favorite casters they make the game enjoyable to watch along with - but I watch full games and I understand the game, possibly this is different for noobs.
|
|
|
|