Welcome, everyone, to the craziest one day event ever.
Countless tournaments have passed since DreamHack Summer 2011, and it seemed as if people were forgetting about the Swedish tournament in the fast-paced world of ESPORTS. DreamHack didn't worry about that though and quietly worked on assembling an incredible line-up of players for their tremendous return event at Valencia.
HuK, Idra, HerO, DongRaeGu, Rain, Lucifron, ThorZain, Naniwa. Though many organizers include invitational spots in their tournaments, they often use these valuable slots ineffectively. But while properly rewarding skill, pleasing the fans, and ensuring racial balance eludes others, DreamHack has put together a near-perfect roster.
And if your memories needed jogging, recall that DreamHack set the standard for streaming at Winter 2010, and have been at the top ever since. The tens and thousands of us watching from home need not worry, because we are almost guaranteed a great streaming experience.
So grab a bottle of Garnacha and take your laptop outside to catch some fleeting summer sun. Imagine you're in Spain and enjoy DreamHack Valencia.
ThorZain politely declined an interview with TeamLiquid leading up to DreamHack, leading us to wonder: what is he hiding? After WeMade Fox disbanded, ThorZain went for a mysterious stay at the SlayerS house, after which he has been seen tweeting merrily away at fellow housemates and gosu Terrans, Ganzi and MMA. Perhaps he has learned the secret to the Koreans' greatness, but is covetously keeping it to himself.
Well, then we'll have to go by what we already know. No one in the world defines the word 'methodical' quite like ThorZain, who never seems in a hurry to win his games. Koreans who had not seen this style before dubbed him “spoon-killer,” since getting murdered with a spoon might take less time than it takes ThorZain to beat his opponent. Yet, this is rarely to ThorZain's detriment. While a lack of patience often loses other progamers otherwise winnable game, the reverse never seems to happen for ThorZain.
Like any good player, he knows the value of the mix-up game. ThorZain employs 1/1/1s, two rax builds, and other types of early game trickery just enough to mask his occasional economic gambles.
Maybe the most persistent legacy of his TSL3 performance is a reputation for being a player with incredible preparation. From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?), ThorZain has shown he can squeeze incredible advantages out of a few days of advance notice. On the other hand, this has often been turned as criticism against him, that he cannot do very well without sufficient time between games. It's an image he's tried to get away from, but until he successfully runs a rapid fire gauntlet to a gold medal, it will continue to stick. To that end, the one day, eight man DH Invitational seems like a great opportunity.
HuK. A master of arms. He may not open Stargate against Terran often, or even use such gimmicks at all. But what I like to think of HuK is that he's a master of his weapons. Such is his expertise that dares to use his builds in certain situations where others wouldn't ever dare. We've seen many lives of Aiur fall to the 2-rax w/ reactor first in TvP when they've 1 gate sentry expanded, but it's those situations where HuK shows he is on a different level. If you think he's doing something supposedly risky, it's still the safest it can possibly ever be due to his stellar unit control.
One of the ever so contradicting aspects of his play is that he tends to use of standard build orders, but shows creative and out-of-the-box thinking from his vanilla starts. This was especially showcased against his teammate, IdrA, in a spectacular series at MLG. I think we all remember the hallucinated Void Ray fight on Metalopolis?
Ever since HuK became the champion of DreamHack great responsibility and pressure has been put upon his shoulders. We always expect great games and great results from him, but is that really fair? He tried to capitalize on his good run and strong confidence after winning back to back tournaments, but it didn't go very well. If you ask me, there's more to it than time lost in physically exhausting flights. Huk puts an incredible amount of pressure on himself because he wants to live up to expectations and make his fans happy with extraordinary play, writing EG in the middle of the map. The pressure may have driven him into a little slump, from which the way out is might be just believing in himself and doing what he does best. Regardless, he's been on a little break after returning to Korea and losing to IMMvp in GSL Code S. I'm absolutely sure that he's been using this time to the fullest to get back into the physical shape (or state of mind?) that he needs to be in to take home another trophy.
As a community we should rally behind HuK without any expectations beyond him giving his best. It's either that, or expecting more and more of him with the risk of one of our most precious stars crumbling under the pressure.
Prediction
Even though HuK should be recovering after finally getting his first period of extended stability in over a month, his recent slump was just too severe. ThorZain was pretty average during his month in Korea, but a Korean average is excellent on all other scales. Add to that the fact that ThorZain's best matchup in TvP, his victories over HuK on ladder, and his win against HuK in the recent EGMC... It's rude to say it to the defending champion, but HuK is going out in the first round.
If there was a game called “find the GSL Champion in this pile of unlabeled progamer streams,” a ton of us would pick the one that ends up being HerO's. There's not much to say about his pure skill: by that metric alone HerO is one of the best among all progamers.
However, we are all aware by now of the huge disconnect between how well you do behind closed doors and how you do live in front of live audience. Even the vaunted oGs.MC suffered from terrible nervousness issues for years. During his stint as a Brood War gamer, his strong internal performances earned him ten appearances in the Shinhan Proleague, even in the face of continued televised losses. Eventually, his team had to pull the plug at ten games and a total record of 1-9. HerO himself has admitted to having such worries about his career, having gone a combined three years in Brood War and SC II without ever having a breakthrough moment in front of an audience.
It's hard to say if MLG Raleigh was a watershed moment. Making it out of the open bracket and into the championship pool was impressive for sure, but it's expected of Koreans as long as they don't face another one of their countrymen. Sixth place on HerO's first try was a nice result, but on the other hand it meant that he was eclipsed by five other Korean players. HerO has spoken of a renewed feeling of confidence and purpose after encountering the supportive foreign fans at MLG, so perhaps there is reason to be positive ahead of the Valencia Invitational.
The other question is about what kind of stage environment HerO will face in Valencia. Though DreamHack has dealt with combined crowds equivalent to the population of Stockholm during its storied history, they've been surprisingly slow to embrace the live spectator nature of ESPORTS unlike their continental competitor, IEM. If the closed-doorness of DH summer returns, HerO will have an excellent chance to emerge with the gold.
I can't believe I'm saying this. Idra might be the worst player in this tournament. Think about that. When was the last time you could ever think of that being possible? Though he's been a icon of rage, bad manners, and premature GG's, Idra has more importantly been the symbol of American excellence for far longer. To see him in this position is like seeing ESPORTS reality get torn apart and reassembled in some senseless, new configuration. It also tells you how f***ing terrifying the field at DreamHack Valencia is.
Idra hasn't even been doing poorly lately, he's just been pretty average (besides a pretty nice victory over Rain at the IEM Guangzhuo qualifiers). The problem is that everyone else is either on a hot streak, a recent recipient of Korean training, or both. The typical response to “Lucifron” is “Who?” but the guy has strung together some incredible results since August. He's taken series off Nerchio, Stephano and Mana, who are THE hottest rising stocks in Europe. That leaves the other six Korean-sphere players. If we learned anything during the summer of '11, it's that you NEVER bet against Korean training.
But besides an underwhelming performance at Raleigh, Idra seems to be his dependable, old self. He's even made some improvements to his game play since a few of us last paid attention; he's even embraced the school of make-many-infestors! Overall, he's a good underdog pick to win the tournament.
Still can't believe I said that.
Prediction
This may be extraordinarily cliché, but it comes down to Idra's mentality. The 'great potential – bad mentality' isn't a myth, as Idra's shown enough great performances to prove that much. He can definitely overpower anyone in ZvP if he can get into a rhythm. The thing is, the mentality part is just outweighing the potential by more every day. Taking into account HerO's excellent FF micro and prism harass capabilities, it's too easy to see Idra losing his calm against those tilt inducing tactics.
"And there comes the seeker missiles, destroying tons and suddenly the supply goes from 200 back to 140. It looks like Rain has a huge advantage here," are some the words Day9 and djWHEAT shouted in one of the most epic TvT's that has ever taken place. It was a massive air battle between BoxeR and Rain in the upperbracket at MLG Anaheim. Unfortunately for Rain, he ended up losing the series with a 1-2 deficit.
Rain is one of the few Koreans that has left his country and team to go play StarCraft 2 in the foreign scene for a foreign team. While it had actually been unclear to me whether or not Rain been staying in the United States or Korea, I recently learned that he was in fact staying in the United States which is kind of interesting. We are always speaking of the Koreans versus the foreigners. However, no one can really set a finger on what specifically it is that makes the Koreans better. Is it the environment (i.e. houses)? Is it the Korean culture (hard-working, don't give up easily, endurance to play back to back games for 12+ hours)? Or is it just something psychological? I do believe that it's a combination of everything.
Even so, foreigners have yet to prove that they can maintain the skill level of Koreans in StarCraft II despite living in Korea. On the flip side, Rain has most certainly proven that he can maintain a very high level of play living in the United States. He tears up MLG after MLG with top performances and amazing games. He takes down his enemies without as much as blinking in the team competition for Fnatic. He's a killer.
NaNiwa has probably been the most feared Protoss user next to HuK for quite a while now. He had an amazing run at the MLG opener this year where he managed to go 26-0 through the open bracket into the finals. He took down the finals in an extended series 4-2, ending him on a total score of 28-2.
He's been attending MLG ever since with a #1 seed going in the pool play every time, but he hasn't been able to make it to the top since then. Yet he is still the absolute premiere of foreign Protoss users.
For the past month or two, he has been staying in Korea to practice. Going a bit back and forth between houses has made his trip a bit inconsistent, but playing in Korea has definitely improved his awareness and general skill level. Earlier in his StarCraft 2 career, he was known as 1-basewa and other such derogatory names. This is not the style we see from NaNiwa anymore. He has changed his play style completely over the past 6-8 months and is now more varied and solid than he's ever been.
I'm looking forward to seeing what such a great player as NaNiwa can bring to an 8-man invitational such as this. He definitely has the skill and this setting may allow him to shine a bit more than having to play a thousand back to back games at a regular DreamHack or MLG.
Prediction
Rain has dropped an unusual amount of games to foreigners lately, and didn't exactly win convincingly against Naniwa during their series at MLG Raleigh. Though there hasn't been a clear outwards decline from living in the States, it must be occurring even if it is imperceptible. The alternative being that the absurd 'Koreans are genetically better at Starcraft II' theory is somehow valid. We're going to have to pick Naniwa here, in the ultimate irony series where a foreigner proves that Korean training is better by defeating a Korean who has become a foreigner.
LucifroN was a WarCraft 3 pro-gamer who had his prime in the year of 2008 being the runner-up at BlizzCon. Defeating Lyn in the upperbracket finals wasn't enough as he went on to lose against the very same player in the grand finals to reach a second place finish, but a great run it was indeed. He was especially known for his extremely aggressive and well-thought play. And then he started to play Starcraft 2...
For those of you who do not know what happened at the first DreamHack in StarCraft 2 history, let me tell you the story:
The groupstage at DreamHack Winter 2010 was BO1 and a Zerg player named ActionJesus took advantage of that and – amazingly enough – 6-pooled his way to victory in back to back matches against NTT and LucifroN. These matches were played on stage in the DreamArena and the players sat in front of a crowd of more than a thousand people ...and you could just see it in LucifroN's eyes from afar. He was broken...
Ever since that tournament, we haven't really seen or heard anything from him. No one really knew where he had gone except the people closest to him. But he is now back on the international stage, stronger than ever. As the hard-working and talented player he is, he is starting to strike back as a threat to anyone who dares to cross him. Most recently he played a few games against Stephano in both Intel Extreme Masters – New York qualifiers, and what amazing games they were. One of our writers described the games as the best TvZ games he has seen in the history of StarCraft 2. It's a travesty of man and nature that the replays aren't up yet, with only the ESL pay-VODs available. One thing to note are his blue-flame hellion drops that unload and load back up so fast, that it looks like the medivac is shooting blue-flames; a trademark that would make IdrA GG instantly.
As early as May of this year, DongRaeGu was virtually unknown to the general populace, despite receiving broad underground recognition as one of the best Zerg players in the world. Since then, he has gone through a meteoric rise in stature, earning a spot in the de facto GSL All-Star tournament “Arena of Legends” in a mere four months after his TV debut. Even more remarkable is that he achieved this without ever setting foot in Code-S, instead putting in GSTL performances that were so damn impressive that he essentially earned his entire team a partnership with foreign giant Complexity by himself (at least that's how it seemed).
And as it is with any player who rises too quickly, he became overrated. His GSTL reputation was built on the back of his near-transcendent ZvT abilities (Nestea ZvZ would be an example of plain transcendent), and it was too easy to assume that his other match-ups were just as good. Yet, we soon learned that while his ZvP and ZvZ were respectable for a rising star, they were liability-level for a player who was expected to win championships.
Now, going into DreamHack, we have a fairly good picture of who DRG is as a player. He is a very good Korean player with extraordinary ZvT, proficient enough in the other match-ups to wipe the floor with foreigners, but still a step or two away from moving into the highest tier of Koreans. Given the field at DreamHack, this should serve him well enough. He is for most, the favorite to win it all. HerO is his greatest threat, and DRG is break-even against him at least. Everyone else, he should beat easily.
DRG should win DreamHack. His real test should be two weeks ahead, when he enters Code-S October with a DH trophy in hand, trying to prove that he can be a championship contender in Korea as well. And if he should lose in Valencia? Then maybe we should start considering that it wasn't just bad luck that kept him in Code-B for half a year.
Prediction
We can rave all we want about the quality of Lucifron's recent TvZ play. But if we had to list a major recent achievement going into this series, it's that he beat Stephano and Nerchio in some series. As for DongRaeGu, he's beat Polt, MKP, Nada, MMA, Ganzi and sC in recent months. We'd all love Lucifron to do well, and maybe even steal a game. But let's be serious here, DRG is going to crush him.
One month ago, Naniwa left for Korea to seek out the Korean dream. As he headed to DreamHack Valencia, we caught up with Dignitas' Protoss ace and talked to him about his Korean experience so far.
You've been in Korea for about a month now. How has your experience been so far?
So far I really really like Korea, but in game I hate the game at the moment.. But overall my experience has been great.
What's your living situation at the moment? You had been staying at the Startale house for a while...
I've been staying in GomTV house for about a week now, but I'm going to the MVP team house when I come back from Valencia. Gom basically told me the wrong information so when I arrived in Startale it was not a permanent stay there as I first thought and was told, but rather 2 weeks of practice only.
How about your Dignitas teammates Select and Sjow? Will you all be together at the MVP house, or has GomTV arranged different practice houses?
They arranged with FXO to stay there as far as I know and I will go to MVP with drewbie. I think this is better because if you are together with too many people you know for a long time you easily end up having too much fun, as is the case with the GomTV house right now. But yeah im not really sure about anything to 100% so I guess I will see what GomTV arranged with MVP when I arrive there.
What were your expectations of a Korean team house before you went to Korea? How was the Startale house similar or different from your expectations?
I expected a lot more strict practice, but Startale is from what I've heard is kind of a relaxed team in that regard, they play when they want. So that was something I didn't realise until I got there, but I hope MVP will be alot more strict and play more SC2.
How do you think you've changed as a player from your one month in Korea?
I think I've gotten a lot better, but I lost a lot of confidence lately considering the state of protoss in Korea right now. I know it shouldn't really affect me personally but I will do my best to try to not think about balance or such things.. Its just a very frustrating period right now for Toss in general.
What about being in Korea you think helped you get better? Simply being around better players and playing on a better server? Or does being in Korea change your mindset, too?
Everything about it helps, Basically every top 200 GM Korean is better or as good as the best of Europe or NA. But the Korean gaming mentality seems to be better as well, they are not as lazy as Europeans or Americans in general it seems from what I've seen so far.
What specific aspect of your play do you think has changed the most so far?
I am much better at reading moves ahead of time, as that is the main difference from foreigners and Korean players. For example here you have to realise when they can drop you and be prepared for it, if you are out of position for a second or two it can cost you the game in a lot of cases.
Have you been talking to the Korean players a lot in order to learn things? How is the language barrier?
The language barrier is really tough, but I have tried my best while I was in Startale to question Ace and Squirtle for advice, they helped me everytime I asked but they are struggling as well as can be seen in code A qualifiers. But yeah they have been very helpful.
So Ace and Squirtle have been your closest Korean friends so far? Which other Koreans have you been getting along with?
I don't know you could count them as friends, but yeah that's the closest I've gotten having any Korean friends. But I've gotten along with every korean person, they are all extremly nice and helpful whenever they can.
Right now, how would you rate yourself among Korean pros? Mid level?
Hmm, I am capable of taking games against any top Korean but I am struggling hard right now with PvT in general, as are most protoss players in Korea at the moment. I don't know how to rate myself among everyone but among the Protoss players in korea I can definitely compete with the rest. But Protoss is just having an extremly hard time at the moment in general.
On that note: you made some depressing twitter comments after MC went out of Code-S. While Protoss seems to be doing okay in Europe and NA, how's the situation as you see it in Korea?
The situation in Korea is that, they [players of other races] actually know how to abuse protoss to the max and therefore protoss basically loses ALOT. Korean players in general have much better micro, macro and more refined builds. Players in Europe and America are quite far behind in general right now. Korea is the only place to take seriously when questioning balance or anything about Starcraft at all really.
So what are the major reasons that Protoss is underpowered in Korea right now?
I would have to write a essay about that and I don't feel like it. But mainly the lack of scouting available early game makes protoss have to guess way too much for them to be able to consistently win without taking insane risks.
Taking into account your opinion on balance and the player list, how do you feel about your chances in Code-A October?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me. But as far as players goes it should be very winnable.
You'll also be playing at DreamHack Valencia shortly. Do you think Lucifron or Idra have a chance against the other six players who have had recent Korean training? And how do you think you will do?
I never predict how I'm going to do but, if I'm on my best form then I should have a decent shot against anyone. But I don't think Lucifron nor Idra will have a chance against the Koreans.
Okay, a few lighter questions now. First, how's the food there? In particular, how's the sushi? lol, I havent tried sushi in Korea yet. I've been eating rice every day combined with some kind of meat, thats what I have been eating every day. but it's alright I like it.
Thorzain mentioned that he owns the rest of you at eating spicy food.
Probably, I am eating kimchi every day trying to get used to it but it's really hard. It's still very spicy for me.
Besides the good gaming environment and the food, what do you like about Korea? It has some pretty bad summer weather.
The weather so far has been really good. No complaints whatsoever.
How about the women? Korean girls or Swedish girls? [Hot_Bid requested this question]
The women in Korea are very beautiful but the language barrier makes it very hard to communicate with Koreans in general. But I am planning to stay here a long time so I will start learning Korean asap when I've gotten a bit more settled to everything and have the time for it. And I prefer Korean girls by far, I like the Asian look in general.
You've said before you'd like to stay in Korea for a long time, and you'd stay forever as long as you had Code-S. How many more months do you still think you'll stay at minimum, and is your plan still the same regarding Code-S?
Right now I feel like there is no point to go back, I can see myself staying here for several years, Code S is my eventual goal to reach, and then from there Champion. But I will take it one step at a time. But I plan to stay here as long as i have to to reach my dream.
Any last words, shoutouts, message to fans, etc?
Shoutouts to my team Dignitas, I want to thank all fans who are supporting me even though I have been doing poorly lately, but it's just a natural step for me right now. I will be showing better results in the future for sure since I am developing as a player right now and just need more time.
Thanks for the interview, and good luck in Code-A and DreamHack!
It's no secret that the eSports live event has evolved at an incredible pace. From the early Starleagues' original shoulder-padded finals to IEM’s European Championships at Gamescom, drawing back all the way to WCGs from as long ago as I can remember, and looking forward to the ever-improving Major League Gaming, we can see a consistent trend in the improvement of both broadcast quality and design of live events. But what’s really startling are the leaps that the modern live events have taken, even as recently as the last six months.
Each successful eSports event is at the heart a designed conference revolving around the fans. IEM Gamescom, fronted by the energetic Dennis “TaKe” Gehlen, features players facing outwards toward the audience, thus becoming immersed in the feelings of the crowd, with booths and activities bustling in the surroundings. The GSL finals feature stadium seating facing a sparkling silver-purple-green lighting cascade with flames and theatrics, and are hosted live by the GSL’s energetic casters. The 2009 World Cyber Games in China packed a huge crowd into a not-so-large stadium and was alive with video game celebration. And of course, the new season of Major League Gaming is looking remarkably sharp, with the sound and lights rivalling any concert hall, to present J.P. McDaniel on certainly the most comfortable leather sofa I’ve ever seen. And now, DreamHack forays into a series of high-production live events with the introduction of DreamHack Valencia. With DreamHack’s venerable history as the largest and one of the oldest LAN parties in the world, there is no doubt as to the quality of the live event that we can expect.
Or... is there?
So we arrive at DreamHack Summer 2011, and find ourselves face to face with Day[9] and dApollo in our dedicated spectator tent, packed shoulder to shoulder with eager viewers sitting on long benches. The players are playing in a separate arena from the fans, and at first the games are difficult to make out from the back rows until a projection screen is erected above the viewing area. Also, not everyone who is interested in watching the event from start to finish is able to due to limited space, and should you stand up for a moment your hard-earned middle-row seat is most certainly gone forever. Only the grand finals were hosted in the main auditorium. It was kind of like going to Medieval Times and watching the tournament from the lobby TVs. Or just going to your local barcraft... without the bar.
There is no doubt that DreamHack is a grassroots LAN event - is THE grassroots LAN event. Starting as what basically amounts to an all-nighter in some guy's basement in Sweden, DreamHack now hosts their duet of seasonal LANs: DreamHack Summer and Winter. Always true to their roots, the DH staff puts together an incredible venue for their LAN participants, with a huge area for gaming, multiple booths and tents, a reputedly amazing breakfast and of course the world’s best progamers competing in about a dozen favorite games for fans to spectate and peruse. When the sun goes down, sleep is most definitely optional, as electronic music takes over the entire event and a party commences; something DreamHack is famous for that no other LAN can mimic. So, I’m most certainly not knocking the DreamHack committee for organizing a sub-par event; everyone that goes comes back well satisfied, having had an awesome time and gamed a significant chunk of their life away.
But DHS 2011 left some Liquidian attendees with an awkward vibe. As one TL user expresses,
“I was a little bit disappointed about the lack of excitement towards Starcraft compared to MLG. DreamHack is more about all the fans/gamers that bring their own rigs and game hardcore for 3 days.”
Others echoed his sentiments, though most concluded that the event was in fact epic beyond proportions. Even Huk noticed, commenting on it in an interview after the championship. Everyone walking in must've been excited to see that Day[9] and dApollo had their own tent set aside for a meet-n-greet and for all to watch the games. But then it was revealed that the players would play in a separate area, and would not be making any significant appearances into this set-aside viewing area. This was a significant departure from the cozy standard that MLG, WCG, IEM, GOM, NASL and others have set - we’re used to feeling the tension, seeing the sweat and watching the champions stumble out of the booth exhausted and bloodied.
So in short, the Starcraft fans had paid top dollar for a DreamHack ticket just to watch the exact same show that the home viewers were getting on the live stream. This time around, DreamHack is doing a slimmer invitational event. They’ve rented out an epic and architecturally significant waterfront venue which looks awesome, and hired local marketing consultants Carnales. Though Valencia is on a smaller scale, I think we’re all wondering how the DreamHack team has stepped up their approach for the live viewers, and how DreamHack will adapt its blossoming tournament franchise with the coming Winter main event.
Starcraft II is the world’s premier eSport. While other companies pour their own dollars as investments into tournaments for publicity and recognition, Blizzard has given us space to let life naturally emerge. Our events and streams generate sustainable revenue for teams and progamers, and our tournaments are rarely sponsored by Blizzard. But have we, the Starcraft fans, been spoiled by our seat at the featured table? After all, Starcraft at Dreamhack shared the stage with literally every genre of game, from Fighters to Racing and Sports to Minecraft. With only one main auditorium, are we as fans asking too much of DreamHack to not only organize the world’s biggest nerd party, but also have our section be in Blu-Ray HD with 120 channels of surround sound while everyone else gets the projectors and benches?
I don’t think that’s what any real fan would want, and I’m not asking for my own personal couch (but while we’re at it...), but I do think that DreamHack does need to recognize that the live event is evolving. It's growing. You can’t just put the personalities in a room with the fans and let them run the show anymore. And while I'm at it, if you’re going to merge the worlds largest LAN with a championship caliber eSports event, the two need to become one; they cannot be separate. The live show must exceed what we can make real online, and every attendee needs to be able to say, “Man, you should’ve been there.”
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
How about the women? Korean girls or Swedish girls? [Hot_Bid requested this question]
The women in Korea are very beautiful but the language barrier makes it very hard to communicate with Koreans in general. But I am planning to stay here a long time so I will start learning Korean asap when I've gotten a bit more settled to everything and have the time for it. And I prefer Korean girls by far, I like the Asian look in general.
Really enjoyed the writeup, but have the writers forgotten about Dreamhacks first event? Techno seems to treat this as Dreamhacks first attempt? I thought the first one was one of the better produced live tournaments ever with audience that rivaled MLG.
On September 16 2011 07:54 DreamOen wrote: I bet lucifron will win against DRG.
That must be some good shit you are smokin bro! Pass it here.
Joking aside, I can see why you would want the spanish hero to win but let's be real. There is absolutely no way he can take out the best zvt player in the world.
These guys are good known players but sometimes I get tired of hearing about them. I feel like there is a lot of talent out there. But the over-hype of HuK and IdrA sort of shadow them out. But all that aside nice write up and good luck to everyone.
Right now I feel like there is no point to go back, I can see myself staying here for several years, Code S is my eventual goal to reach, and then from there Champion. But I will take it one step at a time. But I plan to stay here as long as i have to to reach my dream.
I am so glad to hear that, words cannot express my joy. Thorzain only staying for like a month was like the ultimate cock tease(as it is with many foreigners).
All games seem really interesting, so I for one will not miss a minute! On perfect EU time too, so will not have to stay up until 5AM CEST to watch the finals as GoOdy is not in!
Really great write up, loved the predictions and that interview with Naniwa was beyond excellent. Seems a tad harsh to worry about the viewing audience though because the previous invitational had that great tiered seating jazz. An invitational event and a full fledged DH are totally different beasts and I can imagine they have more resources (time especially) and less other concerns that get in the way of the competions at this one.
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
Kiwikaki. Mothership.
Only one guy I can think of.
Gogo thorzain
From what I remember, San used the vortex to beat Nestea in group stages of the GSL. I'm sure that helped too.
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
Kiwikaki. Mothership.
Only one guy I can think of.
Gogo thorzain
I did get the Planetary Fortress nerfed (by quite a bit as well).
Right now I feel like there is no point to go back, I can see myself staying here for several years, Code S is my eventual goal to reach, and then from there Champion. But I will take it one step at a time. But I plan to stay here as long as i have to to reach my dream.
On September 16 2011 07:50 MaestrO_ wrote: If LucifroN can take a game off DRG than IdrA can most certainly take one off of Hero. Just my opinion i guess.
Yeah I agree that DRG will 2-0 LucifroN as well. I just hope to see good games
Great article, well written. Great Interview with Naniwa. My favourite next to kiwi. I always promote to everyone I know who follows sc that this guy is the most determined and realistic foreigner out there, along with Huk. hes very hard on himself like i am and i live vicariously through him
Naniwa is working so hard. I hope he stays in Korea for a long time and makes it to Code S.
Regarding Lucifron: He has been amazing lately (making the finals of ZOTAC monthly final). He would have a decent shot against anyone but DRG who is the favourite to take the whole thing.
This thread references dreamhack summer and I thinks thats retarded dream hack had an invitational that was omgwtfbbq quality and you should have referenced that event instead.
White Ra vs MC in the finals really epic Bo5 with MC cheesing the last game exploiting the fact that Ra always skipped his first zealot.
On September 16 2011 10:00 Rinrun wrote: HerO gonna wreck this tourney. Idra is the worst player there- no need to hide it. Nice write-up. I can't choose, swedish v. korean girls- dang.
Must be crazy to choose the koreans! Prolly the best thing about scandinavia is the girls ^^,
And omg. IdrA might just be the worst player in the tournament (Lucifron is unproven is SC2 though). I remember TSL 2 was the "Can anyone beat IdrA and Ret?" tournament (Nony on his second try and Sen respectively). Now he's.....oh my god. What has the world come to?
On September 16 2011 10:42 XRaDiiX wrote: I'm Predicting IdrA to win this Tournament. His ZvZ is really good..... i think he can take out DRG if he ends up Facing him in the Finals...
If you ever watch IdrA's Stream his ZvZ is pretty scary... scary good
EGIdrA EGHuk FIGHTING!
Idra won't beat Hero. If by some miracle he does he won't beat Huk either.
On September 16 2011 10:42 XRaDiiX wrote: I'm Predicting IdrA to win this Tournament. His ZvZ is really good..... i think he can take out DRG if he ends up Facing him in the Finals...
If you ever watch IdrA's Stream his ZvZ is pretty scary... scary good
EGIdrA EGHuk FIGHTING!
Idra won't beat Hero. If by some miracle he does he won't beat Huk either.
mm well again, its all about his mindset. His mindset made him 2-0 MC right after he won GSL, and then his mindset 4-0'ed himself. He has the potential to take games off everyone (even MVP on Steppes :O)
Well really I want IdrA to win. He needs to break his slump and defeating a few Koreans would make him happy and ready to train when he gets to Korea.
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
On September 16 2011 10:42 XRaDiiX wrote: I'm Predicting IdrA to win this Tournament. His ZvZ is really good..... i think he can take out DRG if he ends up Facing him in the Finals...
If you ever watch IdrA's Stream his ZvZ is pretty scary... scary good
EGIdrA EGHuk FIGHTING!
Idra won't beat Hero. If by some miracle he does he won't beat Huk either.
mm well again, its all about his mindset. His mindset made him 2-0 MC right after he won GSL, and then his mindset 4-0'ed himself. He has the potential to take games off everyone (even MVP on Steppes :O)
Well really I want IdrA to win. He needs to break his slump and defeating a few Koreans would make him happy and ready to train when he gets to Korea.
Jetlag made him 2-0 MC. Idra himself said as much. Evidenced by that fact in their subsequent meetings MC 2-0ed and 4-0ed him. A mindset doesn't make him go 3-23 vs koreans(something around that) and lose to trimaster. This is simply Idra's skill level, hopefully he'll get better in Korea though.
Yeah the thing about korea is well you get trashed even top tier foreigners. Its frustrating over there I imagine in terms of playing that its hard to be confident when you go from an 80% win ratio or however high they were to 50% or lower in korea. Well be interesting to see how naniwa plays this dreamhack. Unfortunately I have to agree with him that idra doesn't stand a chance against hero in his current state (idk bout lucifron). Should be fun to watch ^_^ hope DRG wins.
On September 16 2011 07:54 DreamOen wrote: I bet lucifron will win against DRG.
Me too man, his TvZ has really impressed me. He beated Stephano 3-0 and made it look easy. But I don't think his TvP and TvT is strong enough to get him the championship.
On September 16 2011 10:42 XRaDiiX wrote: I'm Predicting IdrA to win this Tournament. His ZvZ is really good..... i think he can take out DRG if he ends up Facing him in the Finals...
If you ever watch IdrA's Stream his ZvZ is pretty scary... scary good
EGIdrA EGHuk FIGHTING!
Idra won't beat Hero. If by some miracle he does he won't beat Huk either.
mm well again, its all about his mindset. His mindset made him 2-0 MC right after he won GSL, and then his mindset 4-0'ed himself. He has the potential to take games off everyone (even MVP on Steppes :O)
Well really I want IdrA to win. He needs to break his slump and defeating a few Koreans would make him happy and ready to train when he gets to Korea.
Jetlag made him 2-0 MC. Idra himself said as much. Evidenced by that fact in their subsequent meetings MC 2-0ed and 4-0ed him. A mindset doesn't make him go 3-23 vs koreans(something around that) and lose to trimaster. This is simply Idra's skill level, hopefully he'll get better in Korea though.
Huk lost to trimaster too in the same tourney. :O Trimaster is Code S or Huk is really bad.
Or by this logic: Hero lost to Select! Select is better than HerO! Select lost to Rain! Rain is better than Select who is better than Hero! IdrA beat Rain who is better than select who is better than Hero! IdrA > Hero
-_- Let me have my hopes please. I am sad right now and just want to hope in peace
On September 16 2011 10:42 XRaDiiX wrote: I'm Predicting IdrA to win this Tournament. His ZvZ is really good..... i think he can take out DRG if he ends up Facing him in the Finals...
If you ever watch IdrA's Stream his ZvZ is pretty scary... scary good
EGIdrA EGHuk FIGHTING!
Idra won't beat Hero. If by some miracle he does he won't beat Huk either.
mm well again, its all about his mindset. His mindset made him 2-0 MC right after he won GSL, and then his mindset 4-0'ed himself. He has the potential to take games off everyone (even MVP on Steppes :O)
Well really I want IdrA to win. He needs to break his slump and defeating a few Koreans would make him happy and ready to train when he gets to Korea.
Jetlag made him 2-0 MC. Idra himself said as much. Evidenced by that fact in their subsequent meetings MC 2-0ed and 4-0ed him. A mindset doesn't make him go 3-23 vs koreans(something around that) and lose to trimaster. This is simply Idra's skill level, hopefully he'll get better in Korea though.
Huk lost to trimaster too in the same tourney. :O Trimaster is Code S or Huk is really bad.
Or by this logic: Hero lost to Select! Select is better than HerO! Select lost to Rain! Rain is better than Select who is better than Hero! IdrA beat Rain who is better than select who is better than Hero! IdrA > Hero
-_- Let me have my hopes please. I am sad right now and just want to hope in peace
Nothing to do with what I said and huk didn't lose to trimaster but ok I guess.
All the hype Lucifron is getting won't help him, DRG is on another planet in TvZ. I feel bad for Lucifron, he should have been matched up with someone easier in the first round. I think a big reason that was able to get an invite is because he is from Spain, and the tournament is in Spain.
I am really surprised you have him taking a game. Either way, it should be interesting, good writeup.
You've said before you'd like to stay in Korea for a long time, and you'd stay forever as long as you had Code-S. How many more months do you still think you'll stay at minimum, and is your plan still the same regarding Code-S?
Right now I feel like there is no point to go back, I can see myself staying here for several years, Code S is my eventual goal to reach, and then from there Champion. But I will take it one step at a time. But I plan to stay here as long as i have to to reach my dream.
I love nani's attitude and dedication, really want to see him succeed
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
Kiwikaki. Mothership.
Only one guy I can think of.
Gogo thorzain
LZ gamer -> Reaper?
Oh yes, that glorious build, it was Morrow's execution but the build was just genius.
On September 16 2011 09:41 Monocle wrote: Great write-up, the Nani interview was fantastic!
Also, HerO is my pick to win the tournament.
I share these sentiments. He is so fing good dude, like his play in the SEA Gview tourney was so damn good, plus his stream, plus his games at mlg was just amazing. Don't even get me started on his drop, in particular, his colossi drop..... O_o. However, I really like almost all of the players at this tourney and I hope it makes for some epic ass games. I mean seriously, does anyone else look at this line up and get really excited? I am looking forward to maybe seeing a Hero/huk match even though I think Thorzain is favored because his tvp is godly. Either way hope for great games, it does not matter who wins, I will be satisfied. ^^
Anyone else a little sad to see Naniwa's answer to many of the questions involving toss being in a terrible state? Not that I disagree with him at all, but you can kinda tell by his answers that it's demotivating him somewhat. Maybe i'm wrong, but to me he kinda views it as a little pointless when the best toss are losing all around him. Hopefully the immortal and warp prism buffs allow Naniwa to practice hard and win everything :D
On September 16 2011 13:07 oniman999 wrote: Anyone else a little sad to see Naniwa's answer to many of the questions involving toss being in a terrible state? Not that I disagree with him at all, but you can kinda tell by his answers that it's demotivating him somewhat. Maybe i'm wrong, but to me he kinda views it as a little pointless when the best toss are losing all around him. Hopefully the immortal and warp prism buffs allow Naniwa to practice hard and win everything :D
Hopefully not, (possible) imbalance can only make the mind of a Brotoss like Naniwa stronger!
He just needs to go hard, come game time, and let the rest take care of itself.
Great interview, even better preview. Thank you so much, really appreciate it.
I actually feel a little sad though when I read what you said about IdrA. I'm actually upset because I feel it is true. He's just becoming a little... impatient with himself recently. Well, I guess we'll see how he does when he plays. As always, let the game decide.
You've said before you'd like to stay in Korea for a long time, and you'd stay forever as long as you had Code-S. How many more months do you still think you'll stay at minimum, and is your plan still the same regarding Code-S?
Right now I feel like there is no point to go back, I can see myself staying here for several years, Code S is my eventual goal to reach, and then from there Champion. But I will take it one step at a time. But I plan to stay here as long as i have to to reach my dream.
That there is a man with true dedication and passion.
Great Naniwa interview! As an EU top50 GM zerg player I can't say I disagree that Protoss is slightly too weak even in EU/NA. I feel like he might be blowing it a little out of proportion tho, but I guess we're all slightly biased. Or it's just me who haven't played on korea where he says P is truly struggeling.
DreamHuk ,Live up to your name , get out of your "slum" go back to YOUR playstye the one we ALL love you for. Please stop the Naniwa / MC hybrid build.... its not working :/. YOUR builds however do work. <3 from Denmark
Since when was Huk in a slump? This really floors me. The OP describes Huk as being in a slump, and for what? For losing to imMVP, one of the greatest players in the world? For staying in Code S? If we want to talk slumps, Jinro is in a slump, stuck at the moment in Code B (but I bet we'll see him in Code S quarter finals again!). You can't say somebody's in a slump because they haven't been number uno in a tournament recently, or then 99.9% of all players in the world are in slumps at any given moment of time. Huk got 7th place in the last two MLG's (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think is pretty damn good considering the increased Korean presence in MLG.
Or... was the OP being sarcastic and I just completely missed it?
Naniwa: The women in Korea are very beautiful but the language barrier makes it very hard to communicate with Koreans in general. But I am planning to stay here a long time so I will start learning Korean asap when I've gotten a bit more settled to everything and have the time for it. And I prefer Korean girls by far, I like the Asian look in general.
Right now I feel like there is no point to go back, I can see myself staying here for several years, Code S is my eventual goal to reach, and then from there Champion. But I will take it one step at a time. But I plan to stay here as long as i have to to reach my dream.
On September 16 2011 14:58 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Since when was Huk in a slump? This really floors me. The OP describes Huk as being in a slump, and for what? For losing to imMVP, one of the greatest players in the world? For staying in Code S? If we want to talk slumps, Jinro is in a slump, stuck at the moment in Code B (but I bet we'll see him in Code S quarter finals again!). You can't say somebody's in a slump because they haven't been number uno in a tournament recently, or then 99.9% of all players in the world are in slumps at any given moment of time. Huk got 7th place in the last two MLG's (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think is pretty damn good considering the increased Korean presence in MLG.
Or... was the OP being sarcastic and I just completely missed it?
The world doesn't spin around MLG. He did bad/terrible at IEM and Assembly, losing to MVP in the GSL is no shame and no one calls him slumping because of that, but you also can't say he isn't because, well, he lost ^^...
On September 16 2011 14:58 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Since when was Huk in a slump? This really floors me. The OP describes Huk as being in a slump, and for what? For losing to imMVP, one of the greatest players in the world? For staying in Code S? If we want to talk slumps, Jinro is in a slump, stuck at the moment in Code B (but I bet we'll see him in Code S quarter finals again!). You can't say somebody's in a slump because they haven't been number uno in a tournament recently, or then 99.9% of all players in the world are in slumps at any given moment of time. Huk got 7th place in the last two MLG's (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think is pretty damn good considering the increased Korean presence in MLG.
Or... was the OP being sarcastic and I just completely missed it?
He didn't even make it out of his group at IEM nor Assembly and couldn't qualify for Blizzcon and didn't even get 2nd place at a NA-only event. Pretty bad for someone who people used to call best foreigner. A lot of it probably had to do with his insane amount of traveling tho
On September 16 2011 10:42 XRaDiiX wrote: I'm Predicting IdrA to win this Tournament. His ZvZ is really good..... i think he can take out DRG if he ends up Facing him in the Finals...
If you ever watch IdrA's Stream his ZvZ is pretty scary... scary good
EGIdrA EGHuk FIGHTING!
Idra won't beat Hero. If by some miracle he does he won't beat Huk either.
I kind of agree with the OP. I love me some IdrA but I just can't see him going far in this tournament.
If by some miracle he beats HerO he will not beat Thorzain / HuK in the next game.
But again he has mad potential so who knows? I think after he has been in korea for a while he will get back to standard idra pwnage.
Really excited for this weekend though! I like all the players and cant decide who I want to win And there seems to be 2 clear finalists but not so much that I would be overly shocked to see them knocked out before the finals.
Incredible write-up... thanks for the work in putting it together!
Every interview of Naniwa's I read makes me respect him even more - the guy literally wants BW bootcamp style practice houses and doesn't care about anything but getting better. Such a great attitude.
This tourny is going to be incredible - I cannot wait!
On September 16 2011 14:58 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Since when was Huk in a slump? This really floors me. The OP describes Huk as being in a slump, and for what? For losing to imMVP, one of the greatest players in the world? For staying in Code S? If we want to talk slumps, Jinro is in a slump, stuck at the moment in Code B (but I bet we'll see him in Code S quarter finals again!). You can't say somebody's in a slump because they haven't been number uno in a tournament recently, or then 99.9% of all players in the world are in slumps at any given moment of time. Huk got 7th place in the last two MLG's (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think is pretty damn good considering the increased Korean presence in MLG.
Or... was the OP being sarcastic and I just completely missed it?
The world doesn't spin around MLG. He did bad/terrible at IEM and Assembly, losing to MVP in the GSL is no shame and no one calls him slumping because of that, but you also can't say he isn't because, well, he lost ^^...
Probably it was his travel shedule, we'll see .
I did not know about IEM and Assembly, thanks.
I gotta admit, I got flustered there. Surprised by my own fanboyism =/
no way anybody is going to "crush" lucifron, he really has some unbelievable TvZ, i saw that games in ESL cup you mentioned, but.... its DRG... man im really looking forward to that match, lets see if one of the best EU TvZ'er can do anything against a korean boss.
Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
I don’t think that’s what any real fan would want, and I’m not asking for my own personal couch (but while we’re at it...), but I do think that DreamHack does need to recognize that the live event is evolving. It's growing. You can’t just put the personalities in a room with the fans and let them run the show anymore. And while I'm at it, if you’re going to merge the worlds largest LAN with a championship caliber eSports event, the two need to become one; they cannot be separate. The live show must exceed what we can make real online, and every attendee needs to be able to say, “Man, you should’ve been there.”
Love the write-up and I agree to some extent about DreamHacks Summer event. But in your write-up you talk about Valencia Invitational in comparison with DreamHack Summer when this instead should be compared with DH Invitational in Stockholm.
All that you hope that DreamHack will do actually happened at DH Invitational Stockholm which was kind of a trend-setter regarding quality, live audience etc. for other tournaments.
The really interesting thing is if they can step it up from that? That would be more fair because I'm pretty sure that this will be a looot better live spectating as well as broadcasting than DreamHack Summer.
On September 16 2011 16:39 ZaaaaaM wrote: Lucifron more likely to take a game from drg than it is for idra to take one from hero? Hah.
Lucifron is scarely good. Watched him beating MaNa and Nerchio. I think if he meet IdrA, theres a high chance there would be a RQ in 5-10 min... anyway, gl to both against Korean Pros!
LucifroN is really really good, but DRG is a Terran destroyer. Can be good games, but after I saw DRG vs MMA on Meta... holy fuck. Good luck to LucifroN.
On September 16 2011 17:59 bbm wrote: Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
That's just so depressing and self-deprecating.
Well you have to take into account that most swedish people comes from a social cultural background where Jantes Law is buried deep. But I do not think it translates to a weak mindset, infact I think it strengthens people.
On September 16 2011 17:59 bbm wrote: Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
That's just so depressing and self-deprecating.
Well you have to take into account that most swedish people comes from a social cultural background where Jantes Law is buried deep. But I do not think it translates to a weak mindset, infact I think it strengthens people.
I agree with that it strengthens people. Jantes law is always portraited as a bad thing but I wouldn't agree.
I wonder why Nani has stuck with Protoss anyway. I mean, all races have had their up and downs so I'm not taking that into account. However, in my eyes two of Nani's greatest strengths were always his micro and timings, and I feel as a Terran he could have capitalized more on those.
Either way, wish him the best, and he's got my sympathies. It must be hard to come form the absolute top of the foreign scene, and then go to Korea and realize you've been playing a different game all along.
On September 16 2011 17:59 bbm wrote: Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
That's just so depressing and self-deprecating.
Well you have to take into account that most swedish people comes from a social cultural background where Jantes Law is buried deep. But I do not think it translates to a weak mindset, infact I think it strengthens people.
I agree with that it strengthens people. Jantes law is always portraited as a bad thing but I wouldn't agree.
"The term refers to a mentality which refuses to acknowledge individual effort and places all emphasis on the collective, while punishing those who stand out as achievers. "Don't think you are good at anything." "Don't think anyone cares about you."
Sounds strengthening to me. :/. I actually wasn't aware that many people of that background hold this mindset, unfortunate imo.
On September 16 2011 17:59 bbm wrote: Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
That's just so depressing and self-deprecating.
Well you have to take into account that most swedish people comes from a social cultural background where Jantes Law is buried deep. But I do not think it translates to a weak mindset, infact I think it strengthens people.
I agree with that it strengthens people. Jantes law is always portraited as a bad thing but I wouldn't agree.
"The term refers to a mentality which refuses to acknowledge individual effort and places all emphasis on the collective, while punishing those who stand out as achievers. "Don't think you are good at anything." "Don't think anyone cares about you."
Sounds strengthening to me. :/. I actually wasn't aware that many people of that background hold this mindset, unfortunate imo.
Imoho I think it's a healthy mindset. While people learn just how insignificant they are as individuals, they also learn how to cope with it. They'll never put themselves above another, and know not to worry about pointless things. Sounds perfect to me.
On September 16 2011 17:59 bbm wrote: Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
That's just so depressing and self-deprecating.
Well you have to take into account that most swedish people comes from a social cultural background where Jantes Law is buried deep. But I do not think it translates to a weak mindset, infact I think it strengthens people.
Surely it translates to a lack of interest in striving to excel above your peers though? Does it not strip competition in exchange for equality and meekness. While I think this is a perfectly fine approach for a township or whatever to approach, I just can't see this translating well into a pro-gaming environment.
clearly it's fine though given sweden's pretty excellent output of gamers so whatever i guess i'm wrong D:
edit: I had a think about it, and actually, now that I realise that you also judge everyone else by these criteria as well as be judged by others, I don't think it's as bad as it first appears (although i'm still not bowled over by it, especially since, for example, naniwa has a massive fanbase telling him that no, he IS a somebody). If you can look at someone very self-confident like MC or whoever and honestly think to yourself "you aren't special or noteworthy", then yeah that's always pretty good.
So what are the major reasons that Protoss is underpowered in Korea right now?
I would have to write a essay about that and I don't feel like it. But mainly the lack of scouting available early game makes protoss have to guess way too much for them to be able to consistently win without taking insane risks.
That sounds familiar. That's an issue every race has to deal with. Zerg has been dealing with it and been pointing it out since release, Terran have troubles too to a certain extent. So yeah, completely agree with naniwa, but it's not limited to the protoss race at all.
On September 16 2011 17:59 bbm wrote: Wow, naniwa's interview was so depressing. Can't believe he actually let himself say those things. Not just the being protoss is suffering stuff, I mean, that's reasonable, but he's getting himself down and his attitude is just not a winners one. He says he's gonna stay in korea but he says this?
Hm, as my mindset is right now I don't feel good about my chances in anything, but if I can fix it, I think I have a reasonable chance against anyone as long as I practice hard and don't get demotivated by seeing every protoss lose every game in every tournament around me.
That's just so depressing and self-deprecating.
Well you have to take into account that most swedish people comes from a social cultural background where Jantes Law is buried deep. But I do not think it translates to a weak mindset, infact I think it strengthens people.
I agree with that it strengthens people. Jantes law is always portraited as a bad thing but I wouldn't agree.
"The term refers to a mentality which refuses to acknowledge individual effort and places all emphasis on the collective, while punishing those who stand out as achievers. "Don't think you are good at anything." "Don't think anyone cares about you."
Sounds strengthening to me. :/. I actually wasn't aware that many people of that background hold this mindset, unfortunate imo.
Imoho I think it's a healthy mindset. While people learn just how insignificant they are as individuals, they also learn how to cope with it. They'll never put themselves above another, and know not to worry about pointless things. Sounds perfect to me.
If you're gonna take a big picture look at it, you could just as easily say humanity is completely insignificant too. Doesn't mean your personal accomplishments are worthless and should be completely discouraged, being completely defined by a giant collective. Horrible and harmful mindset IMO. Off topic though so PM me if you have a response.
Spectacular write-up, thanks! Dreamhack Valencia will be awesome indeed, and I really hope that some of those predictions regarding Korean domination will not come into effect
Great content, def a tournament I won't miss. Aftonbladet is trying to sell memberships with their HD feed and exclusive interviews and stuff, so I will probably stick to the main english feed.
Edit:
And worth mentioning is probably the best hype video ever, amazing graphics!
And I thought I couldn't respect Naniwa even more, even if his attitude isn't exactly the most confident one it's still realistic and I really like that. If you blind yourself with arrogance you're going down sooner or later.
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
How about the women? Korean girls or Swedish girls? [Hot_Bid requested this question]
The women in Korea are very beautiful but the language barrier makes it very hard to communicate with Koreans in general. But I am planning to stay here a long time so I will start learning Korean asap when I've gotten a bit more settled to everything and have the time for it. And I prefer Korean girls by far, I like the Asian look in general.
I somehow do not agree with the idea of Idra being the "worst" player of the tournament. But that's just my opinion on the matter. Needless to say I'll be rooting hard for Idra. : )!
I'm looking forward for this for sure. I'm guessing DRG will win but I'm really hoping that Idra will. Nice write up.
Wow, Naniwa always surprises me with his drive. I am kind of sad he probably wo't have time to do anymore TL attacks or state of the games anymore though.
From a clever double expand on Terminus, fast marauder expansion with +1, to his infamous Thor build (how many people can claim they single-handledy got a unit nerfed?)
Kiwikaki. Mothership.
Only one guy I can think of.
Gogo thorzain
morrow. reaper
Technically Dimaga since he taught Morrow the 5rr build immediately before the finals at gamescom last year
When toss gets inn there stride again Naniwa will tear up the scene! His determination is just epic! Will be fun to see Dreamhack, but I am more excited for GSL and Naniwa, Sase, Huk and seeing how they will continue to do. Huk is already there inn the top of GSL but Naniwa and sase still has a lot to prove!
On September 17 2011 01:43 simmeh wrote: naniwa got dat yellow fever
I don't really get why people say that. Would the only situation where you wouldn't say that be if Naniwa said he really didn't like asian girls? Or would you then just say he is racist?
I guess it's just a matter of inflation. Naniwa has spent his entire life around ridiculously hot swedish girls so he is kind of used to them much in the same way that any non-swedish male isn't. So that means the hotness value is not as great there as it is with rest of the world. And of course he is then interested in something new.
hmm i think ur overanalyzing lol. he said he likes asian girls and thus the term yellow fever. didnt really imply anything much more than that lol. but i do understand your point
IdrA might be the worst player there... Come on please ?? Dongraegu and IdrA are the best players out there , i think both got a chance to win all or come at the second place , Naniwa is also good , Lucifron is no-name =]
On September 17 2011 02:20 damian1043 wrote: IdrA might be the worst player there... Come on please ?? Dongraegu and IdrA are the best players out there , i think both got a chance to win all or come at the second place , Naniwa is also good , Lucifron is no-name =]
Naniwa, hero, huk, dongraegu, etc all better than Idra atm. His recent results are pretty average, like 3-24 vs koreans, losing alot in EGMC, lost to trimaster etc. He's probably better than lucifron though.
That was a great interview with Naniwa. I love hearing from him, because he is very to the point. I am glad that he talked about early Protoss scouting, because it is really lack luster. Hopefully he can rip it up soon.
On September 17 2011 02:20 damian1043 wrote: IdrA might be the worst player there... Come on please ?? Dongraegu and IdrA are the best players out there , i think both got a chance to win all or come at the second place , Naniwa is also good , Lucifron is no-name =]
Naniwa, hero, huk, dongraegu, etc all better than Idra atm. His recent results are pretty average, like 3-24 vs koreans, losing alot in EGMC, lost to trimaster etc. He's probably better than lucifron though.
lucifron would probably beat Idra 9 out of 10 times.. he beat Nerchio pretty convincingly in the last monthly Zotac. Idra is around #50 in the list of top players imho.
Respect Naniwa, the only thing that is stopping him from being a top contender is his race atm. Hope this changes. His and Sase's attitudes are the best.
Wow. Being Protoss, whenever I lose a game on ladder I just re-read Naniwas interview and am charged up to go again. Such determination and power of will is inspiring!
By the way, I'm lucky enough to be a spanish leaving just 400 kilometers away from Valencia, so will be there tomorrow! While I really admire all these players; I will root mainly for Lucifron. I have the hope that he can indeed be the surprise of the tournament.
Spanish fans are actually following him on the APSC2 team and he regularly posts some nice blog on the team site: http://www.aprenderstarcraft2.es/blogs/Lucifron (sorry, all content it's in spanish ) Based on his last updates, he is taking his university studies very seriously but at the same time he is enjoying a lot recently from SCII. It's difficult to predict what would be the results of such talented player if he would be fully dedicated to the game.
why do these article always say stuff like Korean practice, Korea training as the reason why Koreans are so good?
practice doesnt matter, its about natural talent the Koreans have. all koreans train the same way and the same amount of time, but not most of them will never be a mvp or nestea. even though they cant be that high, there natural talent of Koreans allows them to exceed any foreigners that go through the same training
im not saying Korean practice doesn't help since it does, but it wont make them beat the natural talent of a Korean and win mlg or the gsl. Korean practice makes them a top foreigner and if u get pvp finals can allow them to beat Koreans because of the match up.
maybe this is what everyone thinks but don't want to say it because they don't want to accept it
Naniwa is such a boss I really want to see some more Toss/ Foreigners in Code S or just making it farther in code A. Hopefully with IdrA going back to Korea and the other dignitas guys we can get some more foreigners, Huk must be getting tired of carrying that foreigner flag.
when is this awesome one day tourney? that would be some pretty good info to have in this well written article.
[edit] September 17th it's on the liquipedia page. it would be more fan friendly if that was in one of the first few lines of he article or at least more prominently located. yes i found it easily, but let's make it easy for everyone. maybe advertising wasn't the purpose of this article, but it seems to lean that way.
again, awesome article. loved the layout, one of the best articles i have read in the past few months.
I never really liked naniwa after how he behaved and how bad his attitude was in the early days of the game. Even as time went on after he joined dignitas I thought I could see some of his old problems shine through, even though he was obviously trying very hard to improve.
As of late, however, it is becoming increasingly hard not to like him. His attitude and dedication almost seems to be in a class of its own. I didn't think naniwa would reach a place where his bad habbits of old would be overshadowed by a new awesome attitude and dedication. I'm starting to think I was wrong.
God what is happening? Idra, rightfully imho, considered the worst player in a tournament involving largely foreigners and me becoming a naniwa fan. I might have to buy two hats just so that I can eat both of them.
Naniwa is the most respectable foreign compeititor out there, his fierce competitive spirit and self-improving drive is something lacking in most but the few foreigners (Jinro, Huk).
Thorzain says he can get as good practice in Europe, that's just an excuse. Naniwa is boss, i hope to see him one day be in code S in GSL.
On September 16 2011 07:45 Waxangel wrote: ThorZain politely declined an interview with TeamLiquid leading up to DreamHack, leading us to wonder: what is he hiding? After WeMade Fox disbanded, ThorZain went for a mysterious stay at the SlayerS house, after which he has been seen tweeting merrily away at fellow housemates and gosu Terrans, Ganzi and MMA. Perhaps he has learned the secret to the Koreans' greatness, but is covetously keeping it to himself
I think we all know what they have been practising
Naniwa's a fucking boss. It makes me really happy to see him state that he could possibly be in Korea for several years. The more foreigners in Korea the better - especially ones such as Naniwa.
Im pulling for Nani, even though i'm a Idra fan. Nani has been dedicated an deserves to get his licks. See you guys at the stream. GL to all contestants.
On September 16 2011 07:45 Waxangel wrote: ThorZain politely declined an interview with TeamLiquid leading up to DreamHack, leading us to wonder: what is he hiding? After WeMade Fox disbanded, ThorZain went for a mysterious stay at the SlayerS house, after which he has been seen tweeting merrily away at fellow housemates and gosu Terrans, Ganzi and MMA. Perhaps he has learned the secret to the Koreans' greatness, but is covetously keeping it to himself
I think we all know what they have been practising
How both X and Y of this graph is Hellions make me a happy panda.