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IEM Global Challenge New York - Day 0 Coverage
October 13th, 2011 07:38 GMT
As a snobby New Yorker, I've done plenty of boasting about how NYC is the greatest city in the world. But in the back of my head, a little voice kept giving me annoying reminders. But where is your awesome e-Sports event? Fortunately, IEM came to the rescue. Even without such an event, NYC was still way better than Cologne or Raleigh. But with the Global Challenge coming to town, it elevates NYC to a much more deserving way, way better. To kick off our IEM New York coverage, we bring you an interviews with the always insightful Carmac and local hero Pokebunny, and some musings from your friendly North American editor. Also, we apologize for the relatively low content and lateness of this article. It has been a very dense few weeks of tournaments, and we have been stretched very thin here at TL. Hopefully we will be back on track shortly.
The Heart of the North American Fanby: WaxAngelI can't really fathom IEM's Korean invitation policy. After holding so many rigorous preliminaries in NA/EU to make sure only the most deserving players make it to the Global Challenges, Koreans seem to be drawn out of a hat. Obviously, there are significant logistical difficulties in holding an extensive qualifier in South Korea, so it's probably the most reasonable solution IEM has to ensure even international participation. Even so, the circumstances have fallen into place so that I have to give IEM Global Challenge New York an unfortunate alternate title: "IEM Let DRG and TOP flip a coin for $6,000." I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...) DongRaeGu and TOP represent the elite flight of Korean players who have been destroying the Korean scene in the past few months. DRG is coming off a victory at DH Valencia, and is the consensus best-ZvT-in-the-world. The entry for "carried" in the dictionary is simply his portrait. TOP's recent string of GSL finishes reads as follows: RO8, RO4, RO16, FINALIST, and RO32 (the GSL silver medalist curse got to him). In terms of playing the abusive-as-hell macro oriented Terran style, he's probably only behind MVP. I'm not saying the four Europeans + TSL_Killer don't stand a chance. Heck, even the nine other guys I didn't name have a chance! But that's only because everyone technically has some kind of chance. The truth is, basic pattern recognition tells me what's much more likely to happen: Elite Koreans will own 'white dudes.' With that said. I'm going to be anxiously sitting in the audience, preparing myself to yell "SUCK IT KOREA!" should occasion arise. Nothing's better than winning when it should be impossible. We love you guys, all twelve of you. Let's do this. *More specifically, "non-Korea trained foreigners," since a oGs-TL house residing HuK did win HSC3 and DH Summer. Anyway, HuK should just be considered a Korean.
Interview with Carmacby: TeamLiquidJust ahead of IEM, Carmac invited us on down to see the the IEM area at Comic-Con as it was being constructed. After showing us around for a bit, he graced us with an interview. Carmac has a reputation for giving both insightful and entertaining interviews, and he knocked this one out of the ballpark in his usual style. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quH9dn9zWdY
Interview with GoSuPokebunnyby: TeamLiquidDefending the pride of the host city is Pokebunny, the only player from NYC who managed to make it through the qualifiers. We talked to the sixteen year old pro about balancing school and gaming, his thoughts on the SC2 scene in NYC, and how he might perform in the upcoming tournament.by zemotion fb.com/zemotion First off, could you introduce yourself to the fans? Like quite a few of the NA players competing at IEM New York, you're a relatively unknown player.Unknown?! Don't be silly kidding hahaha. I'm a 16 year old Terran player hailing from New York, I actually live in Manhattan, so the IEM venue is very close by for me. I stream on TL.net and play as much as I can while going to high school You're known to be one of the best players in New York City, facing very little competition in the local tournament scene. What's up with the lack of worthy challengers?Well, the biggest "challengers" I've seen in the city have been FXOmOoNaN and FXOSLoG - both of which have been traveling a lot, with SLoG staying in Korea for an extended period of time. Honestly, I'm not really sure - even in SC1, there weren't many top players from around here. A lot of top players seem to be further out west. WCG hosted a $2000 LAN in the city a few months ago, and honestly, I was surprised at the lack of true challengers - I won the LAN without dropping a game til the finals, which is pretty unexpected considering the large prize pool and large population of the local area... I have no idea, really. Right, the Cybercraft LAN tournaments are affectionately known as the "Pokebunny monthly allowance cups." inside NYC circles. Do you appreciate the donations?Rofl. Yeah, actually, aside from the money though, I really do have a great time playing at the LANs and hanging out with the local New York crowd. While it's nice to win 75% of the local LANs including the ones I couldn't go to, the money is just an added benefit - it's a great community here. Let's talk a little bit more about the NYC community. They're a pretty small group considering the size of the city, but they're very tight knit. What kind of stuff do you guys do?Well, every month, as you mentioned, we've got our local Cybercraft LAN in Flushing - it's been a great way for people to get together and compete, and we definitely see a bit of competitiveness too. It's great seeing local players rise up through the ranks throughout the tournaments - I distinctly remember a Platinum player from the first LANs a year ago rising up to a high master level player now, who I've made friends with. We toyed with the idea of having weekly community dinners/lunches, but that kinda died out after a couple weeks. Other than that, we've got Barcrafts for every MLG from now on, and people obviously attend all bigger events that come to town such as the WCG LAN a few months ago and now IEM New York. In general, the local community has really transcended friendship beyond the boundaries of Starcraft. I know of a lot of people that meet up with LAN friends outside our scheduled events, and have good friends here (including myself). I was even lucky enough to find a great, Starcraft-supportive girlfriend from local events, keke. As a fan of Brood War, you know that girlfriends are pretty bad for being good at pro-gaming. What do you think about your situation, and do you think it has affected your performance?Well, I guess it just depends on a lot of things. You could say it cuts into your practice time, but actually in my case, my girlfriend has kept me really motivated to do well and has supported me in a lot of events, even coming down to MLG Raleigh with me. She pushes me to play more and do better sometimes when I'm being lazy and playing too much HoN, so I actually think for me it's been great. Also, it keeps me happy and interested in the game to have someone close to share it with, haha. It's really nice You're a full time student at the same time as being a pro-gamer. How do you balance your responsibilities between those two rather different worlds?You know, it's funny how you put that as two different worlds, as lately it really has felt like that to me. In one world I'm a professional who makes money and has obligations, in another I'm just a kid who whines about homework (and also has obligations lol). Balancing is tough - you really just have to get priorities straight and make the most of your time, getting work done quickly and playing whenever you get the chance. It's tough, but definitely doable at the level of play I'm at - however, it would be difficult to be really successful with my lifestyle. Yeah, you're improving rapidly, but haven't quite made 'the leap' as of yet. Do you think you can get to that next level with your current level of effort in Starcraft II, and do you think you'll have to sacrifice other things to get there?Hmm. This is hard topic for me to discuss, but I'll do my best. With how I live now, I think it is nearly impossible for me to move onto the truly international level of competition. At the end of the day, at this point, Starcraft is still not something I can really dedicate my life to - partially because of parents, and partially because I know it's just a bad idea to do so without a long-term plan for stable income. I'm not really the type who says "go to Korea, sacrifice everything, just to be the best" at this point in my life, especially due to school/parental restrictions. Basically, it's not really my choice, and even if it was my choice, it would be a tough decision - mostly, I just try to do as well as I can and really have fun with it. I think that's something a lot of players are missing, actually - just relaxing and have fun with playing a great competitive game. So are you trying to focus equally on both right now, so you have viable futures in both pro-gaming and academics? And where do you see yourself down the line, say 1, 2, 3 years from now?Yeah, pretty much. I'm not committing to one or the other as a career path... what I choose to do in a couple years is likely dependent on the state of the ESPORTS scene and my position in it. I will probably end up going to college.. most likely directly after high school but I have also considered taking a year off to pursue SC. If ESPORTS really takes off and it becomes possible, I'd love to pursue something like casting or a related job - I love to talk about Starcraft and just being around the scene is great. I guess I'll just continue my current lifestyle throughout the next few years, see where it takes me, and make decisions from there. The important thing is that I'm really trying to keep my options open as far as my life path - I recognize the great opportunity I have at this point in my Starcraft career and don't want to give it up, but ESPORTS is new and unpredictable and who knows if I'll be able to make a real living from it. Alright, some questions about the tournament itself. What do you think about your group? Did you feel like pulling a HuK and tweeting "F*** IEM" after you saw Mana, TT1, and TOP in your group?My group is definitely difficult - not an absolute worst-case scenario, but pretty bad. MaNa - IMO the best of the Europeans coming, but I'm more confident vs Protoss than vs Terran, so I'd rather have him than SjoW or Strelok, but I still think he is on a higher level than me. I've been practicing a lot though and hoping I can at least show some good games in this match. TT1 - He has really been in and out of form a lot lately, and seems like he's on his game headed into IEM. It's a tough match - another Protoss, but again, out of the NA players, he's among the better of the bunch. I'd definitely feel more comfortable against Axslav/Attero/Edge/StrifeCro in this spot. I definitely feel like I have a decent shot here though, it will depend a lot on the builds and I don't think it's super predictable. TOP - Korean Terran with monster TvT and a lot of stage experience. Not happy about this one I feel more comfortable in my TvT than I have for a while, but it should be obvious to anyone that me and TOP aren't really comparable at this point. Overall, it's a tough group, but I definitely feel like I can show some decent games. If I'm correct, this will also be your first appearance on stage in front of a large live audience. Are you nervous?Yeah, pretty much will be. Hmm.. not too nervous, but there definitely will be a lot of excitement. I'm not really the type to let pressure get to me - although it's obviously different being on an international stage, I've been a pitcher in baseball as well as playing chess throughout my younger years, and have been in my share of pressure situations, most of which I excel in. It's definitely a big experience, but I think I'll be able to show my best. Hopefully. So, how do you think you will perform in this tournament? Do you think that if you make it out of the groups, you have a shot at making a run?Mmm.. I'm going into it feeling pretty good, actually. I'm not too nervous and I don't feel a lot of pressure to perform super well. I think I could definitely have a decent showing if I play my best, but in reality I don't think I really have much of a chance against the best Korean players (TOP/DRG/maybe SangHo as well.) I'm realistically optimistic ^^ Okay thanks for the interview. Any comments or shout-outs?Hmm.. there are definitely a few lol. Shoutout to ItsGosu eSports for supporting me, and their sponsors NE-SE and Maxx Integration. We also have more plans coming up, so look out for us! ^^ Shoutout to all my old friends from the Amazon Basin, ICCup team mG... it's been a great ride finally making something of myself. Shoutout to the old VT team, was a great way to get into the professional scene and I miss you guys. Shoutout to the NY community, Lisa and Sterling for organizing the events, etc - it's been fantastic Shoutout to my family for supporting me and allowing me to do all these great things. A couple weeks ago Day9 invited me out to the RedBull LAN in california on one day's notice, and my family helped pull it together and let me go even though I had never traveled alone before then. Shoutout to all my fans and followers on my stream, twitter (@pokebunny), facebook ^^ And finally, shoutout to my amazingly cute and supportive girlfriend Sharon haha ^^ she really motivates me to play and do my best. Thank you everyone wish me luck~! <3 teamliquid. Okay, I may or may not buy you five dollars worth of food at the event.... I'll be expecting my dumplings at some point throughout the weekend.
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Pro write-up, thank you Pokebunny, stay away from HoN, you! Great interview
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Isn't this TOP's first international event?
I think if he's able to overcome any jetlag/other inconveniences, he'll be able to take this. TOP's ZvT > Supernova's
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Nice! I enjoyed reading this.
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On October 13 2011 16:49 IMRandom wrote: Isn't this TOP's first international event?
I think if he's able to overcome any jetlag/other inconveniences, he'll be able to take this. TOP's ZvT > Supernova's
He was at Dreamhack Winter 2010 with Inca I believe.
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Very interesting interview with Carmac and his idea of tournaments.
EDIT: also, I love how it took me 5 minutes for me to figure out he's talking about boxer as the korean with poor results but gets into every event.
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Poke seems like a pretty well rounded, mature youngster. Bodes well for his future, in my opinion, regardless of what he does with it!
Thanks for the preview.
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I agree with Carmac , I really like his thought process for esports and tournaments
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TOP > Puma? No fucking way. When I looked at the NY groups I thought it was definitely less stacked then Ghuangzou.
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Thanks. Nice read!
BUT I don't like that:
I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. There are two top koreans: MVP and NesTea. All of the others are around the same level (Ryung, DRG, MMA ...). It's not Stephano's fault that MVP and NesTea weren't at IPL. Don't talk this victory down. There were a lot of awesome players from korea who didn't manage do win this tournament. I don't know why in almost every TL article the writer has to say something like "yeah, nice win BUT we all know it wasn't that hard..."
I would like to see more: "Yeah, after the great success of the foreign world in IPL we will maybe have another tournament without a korean winner because Mana (or other players) is a boss and had already shown his skills vs korean!"
Don't get me wrong, great article but I would love to see more positive vibe.
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D'awwww pokebunny so cute :3
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On October 13 2011 17:04 blackmanjoe wrote: I agree with Carmac , I really like his thought process for esports and tournaments
same here
damn will be hard to watch mlg and iem at the same time
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On October 13 2011 17:04 tOTOM wrote: Just for information, Stephano already beat MarineKing, Puzzle, Revival and MMA for the IPL 3 qualification...
"Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals."
Great write-up Wax! Carmac interview was amazing! Have a good time in IEM!
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On October 13 2011 17:11 KiNGxXx wrote:Thanks. Nice read! BUT I don't like that: Show nested quote +I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. There are two top koreans: MVP and NesTea. All of the others are around the same level (Ryung, DRG, MMA ...). It's not Stephano's fault that MVP and NesTea weren't at IPL. Don't talk this victory down. There were a lot of awesome players from korea who didn't manage do win this tournament. I don't know why in almost every TL article the writer has to say something like "yeah, nice win BUT we all know it wasn't that hard..." I would like to see more: "Yeah, after the great success of the foreign world in IPL we will maybe have another tournament without a korean winner because Mana (or other players) is a boss and had already shown his skills vs korean!" Don't get me wrong, great article but I would love to see more positive vibe.
and the joke is, that both mvp and nestea got beaten by dimaga its funny so many people live in their fantasy broodwar world, this is sc2 and here the absolut top none koreans can beat the top koreans, even if their chances are small to win they still can
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On October 13 2011 17:10 chocopaw wrote: TOP > Puma? No fucking way. When I looked at the NY groups I thought it was definitely less stacked then Ghuangzou.
Puma is most definitely not better than TOP. How can u rate a player who ran away to easy foreign scene because he couldn't qualify code A higher than a GSL code S finalist and code A winner? Also, Puma's zvt is incredibly poor and his tvt isn't that eye-opening either.
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Awesome interview with Carmac I totally agree with everything that guy has ever said (even about fruit dealers grandma :-P)
More of us need to get to hosting tournaments!
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isnt it Carnac not Carmac ? rofl
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I miss you too poke
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On October 13 2011 17:19 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:11 KiNGxXx wrote:Thanks. Nice read! BUT I don't like that: I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. There are two top koreans: MVP and NesTea. All of the others are around the same level (Ryung, DRG, MMA ...). It's not Stephano's fault that MVP and NesTea weren't at IPL. Don't talk this victory down. There were a lot of awesome players from korea who didn't manage do win this tournament. I don't know why in almost every TL article the writer has to say something like "yeah, nice win BUT we all know it wasn't that hard..." I would like to see more: "Yeah, after the great success of the foreign world in IPL we will maybe have another tournament without a korean winner because Mana (or other players) is a boss and had already shown his skills vs korean!" Don't get me wrong, great article but I would love to see more positive vibe. and the joke is, that both mvp and nestea got beaten by dimaga its funny so many people live in their fantasy broodwar world, this is sc2 and here the absolut top none koreans can beat the top koreans, even if their chances are small to win they still can
Doesn't mean Dimaga > MVP/Nestea. SC2 and bw aren't games u can win 100% just because ur good. One victory isn't enough to judge foreign/korean scene. Give it some time and we'll see how things pan out.
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why are neitiher mlg or iem listed in the upcoming events tab on the front page of teamliquid?!
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On October 13 2011 17:25 Spitmode wrote: why are neitiher mlg or iem listed in the upcoming events tab on the front page of teamliquid?! It is weird how the major events are usually only listed until a few hours before but all the weekly cups or whatever are up there days in advance.
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On October 13 2011 17:19 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:11 KiNGxXx wrote:Thanks. Nice read! BUT I don't like that: I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. There are two top koreans: MVP and NesTea. All of the others are around the same level (Ryung, DRG, MMA ...). It's not Stephano's fault that MVP and NesTea weren't at IPL. Don't talk this victory down. There were a lot of awesome players from korea who didn't manage do win this tournament. I don't know why in almost every TL article the writer has to say something like "yeah, nice win BUT we all know it wasn't that hard..." I would like to see more: "Yeah, after the great success of the foreign world in IPL we will maybe have another tournament without a korean winner because Mana (or other players) is a boss and had already shown his skills vs korean!" Don't get me wrong, great article but I would love to see more positive vibe. and the joke is, that both mvp and nestea got beaten by dimaga its funny so many people live in their fantasy broodwar world, this is sc2 and here the absolut top none koreans can beat the top koreans, even if their chances are small to win they still can They can win, at any given Sunday yes, but will they be able to do it consistently in a tournament environment? Right now, the statistics say no; that was the point the article was making.
Don't turn it into a BW bashing thing, that has no place in an SC2 news article.
Also, Pokebunny so QT :3 but if you want to be a total baller you gotta pull a Rekrul once you're deciding between gaming and college.
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On October 13 2011 17:27 weaknurse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:25 Spitmode wrote: why are neitiher mlg or iem listed in the upcoming events tab on the front page of teamliquid?! It is weird how the major events are usually only listed until a few hours before but all the weekly cups or whatever are up there days in advance.
IPL3 day4 wasnt even listed at all until it started. TL really needs to step it up...
when does IEM start? in how many hours?
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But two players on the top ten list were at IPL: Ryung and MMA. Which makes this article just plain wrong. The sense of inferiority, and the need for it to stay that way, is strong in the ex-bw followers..
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While it's nice to win 75% of the local LANs including the ones I couldn't go to, the money is just an added benefit - it's a great community here.
What??
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On October 13 2011 17:21 FireS wrote: isnt it Carnac not Carmac ? rofl
Carnac and Carmac are different persons.
On October 13 2011 17:30 Spitmode wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:27 weaknurse wrote:On October 13 2011 17:25 Spitmode wrote: why are neitiher mlg or iem listed in the upcoming events tab on the front page of teamliquid?! It is weird how the major events are usually only listed until a few hours before but all the weekly cups or whatever are up there days in advance. IPL3 day4 wasnt even listed at all until it started. TL really needs to step it up... when does IEM start? in how many hours?
You know guys, even _YOU_ can keep the calendar updated and add tournaments. It's not just TL crew's job.
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If Nyomu ever gets to play as much SC2 as he would like, I think you will have a serious contender for your "LAN allowance" Pokebunny :p
Seriously, I cry when I watch that guy play knowing he can't put time into it.
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On October 13 2011 17:36 Grettin wrote:Carnac and Carmac are different persons. Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:30 Spitmode wrote:On October 13 2011 17:27 weaknurse wrote:On October 13 2011 17:25 Spitmode wrote: why are neitiher mlg or iem listed in the upcoming events tab on the front page of teamliquid?! It is weird how the major events are usually only listed until a few hours before but all the weekly cups or whatever are up there days in advance. IPL3 day4 wasnt even listed at all until it started. TL really needs to step it up... when does IEM start? in how many hours? You know guys, even _YOU_ can keep the calendar updated and add tournaments. It's not just TL crew's job. I have no affiliation with IEM.
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On October 13 2011 17:35 m0ck wrote: But two players on the top ten list were at IPL: Ryung and MMA. Which makes this article just plain wrong. The sense of inferiority, and the need for it to stay that way, is strong in the ex-bw followers..
No, it doesn't make it plain wrong at all.
Both Ryung and MMA were at IPL3 yes. And they were beaten by another Korean. This is the problem that many people had with Stephano's win, that people claim he crushed a tournament with Top 10 Koreans. That may be, but he certainly wasn't on their side of the bracket.
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On October 13 2011 17:14 Grettin wrote: "Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals."
I suppose MC, MMA, Alive, Ryung are not top class Korean professional but I am wondering what is code S, the top Korean professional no ? Probably a 2 times champion MC and a 2 times finalist MMA (and probably 3 times with the gsl october) are just garbage...
This is the first win of a "foreigners" against good korean players, be proud of it !
Top class korean player play at IPL, MLG and GSL only, top european players don't play at this kind of event (or in the open bracket and with a long way to see the light...).
Apart for MVP and Nestea, I don't think top european players as Stephano, Nerchio, Dimaga or Mana, are not as good as the korean. But I hope a tournament will show it
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so when will it start? in european time
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On October 13 2011 17:53 BigKahunaBurger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:35 m0ck wrote: But two players on the top ten list were at IPL: Ryung and MMA. Which makes this article just plain wrong. The sense of inferiority, and the need for it to stay that way, is strong in the ex-bw followers.. No, it doesn't make it plain wrong at all. Both Ryung and MMA were at IPL3 yes. And they were beaten by another Korean. This is the problem that many people had with Stephano's win, that people claim he crushed a tournament with Top 10 Koreans. That may be, but he certainly wasn't on their side of the bracket.
It seems what you want is a league, not a bracket system..
MMA lost to White-Ra, he dropped a map against Sheth, he lost 3-0 to the guy Stephano destroyed 4-0. There's a reason MMA didn't meet Stephano: it's that he wasn't good enough.
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On October 13 2011 17:35 t1mid wrote:Show nested quote +While it's nice to win 75% of the local LANs including the ones I couldn't go to, the money is just an added benefit - it's a great community here. What??
I assume he means that the ones he couldn't attend were part of the 25% he lost in that statistic, giving him a greater than 75% win rate at the LANs that he attended.
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On October 13 2011 17:54 Spitmode wrote:so when will it start? in european time
I'd like to know this too
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That interview with carmac was satisfying like always. He has a very well thought out opinion of the way competative gaming needs to progress and how tournaments should conduct themselves
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(Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...)
if i remember correctly stephanio did beat mma in the qualifier
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Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...)
So MMA was defeated by a Korean player that later got defeated by Stephano... For me that makes him the winner of an tournament with one of the best Korean player around. Also Alive, Ryung, Puma... Even if he didn't face all of this players, there is a reason for this. Other players were simply better on that given day and he won vs all those better players.
Other than that great article.
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On October 13 2011 18:07 BigLighthouse wrote: That interview with carmac was satisfying like always. He has a very well thought out opinion of the way competative gaming needs to progress and how tournaments should conduct themselves I have to agree. I find that every time Carmac answers a topic, he does so while being very aware of how deep/less deep his knowledge of said subject is. The fact that he has held many interviews surely helps a great deal as well.
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On October 13 2011 18:29 Malaz wrote:Show nested quote +Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...) So MMA was defeated by a Korean player that later got defeated by Stephano... For me that makes him the winner of an tournament with one of the best Korean player around. Other than that great article. Way too volatile to judge 'the gap' based on a couple of sets. It's incredibly frustrating arguing on both sides, and ultimately it doesn't really matter. Unless Stephano et al. gets into Code S and actually gets a chance against the top players in a longer tournament, there's no conclusive evidence either way and it's not worth talking about, especially in this thread.
In any case, Axslav is in super hot form and I see him doing really well, don't forget Killer is literally the best Protoss in Korea, and hence the world! You're only as good as your last tournament
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i have searched the whole forum and looked on google quite a bit too but there is NO information ANYWHERE WHEN (time) the event is going to start. does anyone know this?
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"IEM Let DRG and TOP flip a coin for $6,000." -OP
I think this assumption is wrong because some of the Europeans might break into the Finals but we will have to wait and see.
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Carmac has a point there, we need all the event we can get and it's ok if IEM as some lesser knowned players since they qualified fair and square!
And yes Fruitdealear won more the boxer.. !
gj waxangel
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United Kingdom38056 Posts
On October 13 2011 18:49 Spitmode wrote: i have searched the whole forum and looked on google quite a bit too but there is NO information ANYWHERE WHEN (time) the event is going to start. does anyone know this?
http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season6/newyork/schedule/
The same place it always is...
Amazing interview with Carmac, he really seems to have a clear vision for how to provide for sustainable development of esl and esports.
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On October 13 2011 18:51 archonOOid wrote: "IEM Let DRG and TOP flip a coin for $6,000." -OP
I think this assumption is wrong because some of the Europeans might break into the Finals but we will have to wait and see.
They are the two favorites to win the whole thing but your right a player like Mana can take games from them. Also looking at the groups, an all Korean/EU quarterfinal wouldn't be that big of an suprise, because I don't think the NA players that attend IEM are on the same level. TT1 and Pokebunny could have a chance but they have a really hard group with TOP and Mana. Maybe KilleR can go through.
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On October 13 2011 17:14 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:04 tOTOM wrote: Just for information, Stephano already beat MarineKing, Puzzle, Revival and MMA for the IPL 3 qualification... "Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals." Great write-up Wax! Carmac interview was amazing! Have a good time in IEM! TSL3?
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According to readmore.de, a german esports newssite, the games start at 18:15(6:15pm) CEST, which is GMT+2 i think!
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TOP will win IEM and MC will win MLG
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Nice write up, love seeing Carmac's interviews. Also great interview with Pokebunny.... ill definetly be rooting for him in every match.
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Great Interview with Carmac. I second every word of him and deeply respect his approach to eSports. gl to IEM, I will definitly watch both events this weekend, as I am sure that IEM will be much more exciting than most people think.
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I have to agree that Carmac did really well in his interview. He's been involved in esports for a very long time (originally from Unreal Tournament and then on to Quake) and obviously knows what he is doing and talking about.
He is definitely one of the best people you can get in the position he has now.
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On October 13 2011 17:04 blackmanjoe wrote: I agree with Carmac , I really like his thought process for esports and tournaments
Me too. I like the idea behind the IEM tournaments and the qualifiers giving chance to everybody.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 13 2011 18:32 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 18:29 Malaz wrote:Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...) So MMA was defeated by a Korean player that later got defeated by Stephano... For me that makes him the winner of an tournament with one of the best Korean player around. Other than that great article. Way too volatile to judge 'the gap' based on a couple of sets. It's incredibly frustrating arguing on both sides, and ultimately it doesn't really matter. Unless Stephano et al. gets into Code S and actually gets a chance against the top players in a longer tournament, there's no conclusive evidence either way and it's not worth talking about, especially in this thread. In any case, Axslav is in super hot form and I see him doing really well, don't forget Killer is literally the best Protoss in Korea, and hence the world! You're only as good as your last tournament The article is as always eminently readable, and the two interviews are awesome.
However, I actually think this article is the poorest pre-event article I've read on TL, because of the blatantly wrong statement. The link to a Power Rank where two of the players present at IPL is on (at number 4 and number 8), prefaced with the statement "The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players" is mindboggling for me. It just seems poorly researched.
I also find that statement "(Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...)" odd. Does the author mean that just because Stephano didn't play MMA means we can't know if he's better or worse? I think that if you look at the games and actual gameplay, it seems that the best ZvT:ers at IPL3 were Stephano and IdrA. Lucky is a Z, and he beat MMA, with play that I personally don't think looked as polished as the two foreigners, although it was very, very good (as all Koreans going abroad are). Stephano then beat Lucky 4-0 in the final. It wasn't really close between them, 4-0 is 4-0. And considering he was on fire at IPL 3 with probably better at ZvT than Lucky, I can't really see how he would not win vs MMA in a best of 5 or 7.
It just reeks of some kind of rationalization; "yes, he won, but the best koreans weren't there... Oh, #4 and #8 on TL powerreank were there? Well they didn't play him, he only played players who beat them...."
That said, the two interviews does in my opinion save the article, making it ok, instead of outright bad. But kind of disappointing considering all the previous, excellent writeups.
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Wohoo! Go Pokebunny! Show those Koreans who's boss!
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I really feel alot of TL staff writers lives in the year 2000 still and are used to complet korean domination from the BW era.
So in IPL there wasnt top koreans there? ok.........nutz
MaNa is one of the best protoss in EU and he is the only terran I seen beat puma offline and online. Im so sure that Top will not beat MaNa.
Also MaNa had one of the worst PvZ in EU for a very long time until he meet Stephano and trained with him. So now Mana got a really good PvZ.
Dont be supriced if it ends in a MaNa vs DRG final and MaNa wins it.
PS. Starcraft 2 isnt broodwar alot has changed. I feel like whatever a foreign player does its a no win situation.
You beat a korean? well he was proberly jetlagged. So Stephano you won a 100k dollars tournament full of koreans? Not good enough they wasnt the best korean.
So Dimaga you beat Nestea and MVP once and JYP at IEM. Not good enough you were just lucky
So Idra you won IEM while beating Puma and revival. Not good enough idra it was proberly a match fix and revival isnt that good anyway
its really starting to look like some unconcience racisme towards the foreigner players. No matter what they do there is alllways a but or some other excuse
Plz TL writers stop living in the BW era and wake up
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Going to be a busy weekend, looking forward to it. The interview with Carmac is quite interesting, well worth listening.
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On October 13 2011 21:03 HappyChris wrote: I really feel alot of TL staff writers lives in the year 2000 still and are used to complet korean domination from the BW era.
So in IPL there wasnt top koreans there? ok.........nutz
MaNa is one of the best protoss in EU and he is the only terran I seen beat puma offline and online. Im so sure that Top will not beat MaNa.
Also MaNa had one of the worst PvZ in EU for a very long time until he meet Stephano and trained with him. So now Mana got a really good PvZ.
Dont be supriced if it ends in a MaNa vs DRG final and MaNa wins it.
PS. Starcraft 2 isnt broodwar alot has changed. I feel like whatever a foreign player does its a no win situation.
You beat a korean? well he was proberly jetlagged. So Stephano you won a 100k dollars tournament full of koreans? Not good enough they wasnt the best korean.
So Dimga you beat Nestea and MVP once and JYP at IEM. Not good enough you were just lucky
So Idra you won IEM while beating Puma and revival. Not good enough idra it was proberly a match fix and revival isnt that good anyway
its really starting to look like some unconcience racisme towards the foreigner players. No matter what they do there is alllways a but or some other excuse
Plz TL writers stop living in the BW era and wake up
- the following Code S players were at IPL3: HuK - MaNa has the best foreign PvT, PuMa has a foreign event schedule and wasn't a super top tier Korean player anyway - Stephano won 30k, and it's they weren't the best Koreans. - Dimaga beat NesTea in ZvZ, something unheard of. Awesome. An occurrence. - Revival not a top player, already talked about PuMa
It's not racism, and it's certainly not BW elitism either. It has been proven that the best foreigners can compete with the best Koreans. Without a significant foreign presence in Code S, you cannot possibly hope to deny that Koreans are outright better. Stephano's win? Amazing. He played brilliantly. Did you watch NesTea vs MVP? Do you think Stephano can stand up to that? You might, I don't, but what's important in this is that we don't know.
Koreans are the best. It's not racism or BW elitism, it's fact. You don't think every foreign fan, including TL's writers, wants foreigners to win? Of course they do! What matters is that the Koreans at this tournament are significantly better than the majority of foreign players, and this tournament has less talent than the upcoming MLG.
Korean players live in their team house and practice more than foreign players, within a group of people all living for this game. It is not blood or talent that makes them better, it is the work ethic. No matter what glimpses of brilliance we see from foreign players, they will always be behind the Koreans if they're not fully dedicating their entire lives to this game, which many are not. Look at iNcontroL for example, he is a progamer however he dedicates a lot of time he could be practicing to doing things for the community, being on shows, casting, coaching etc.
You don't think Stephano being as good as he is with 2 hours a day could be up there with the best of the Koreans if he was living there? You think GoOdy, the panzer general with low APM that fully queues his factories, regarded as one of the best mech players in the world, wouldn't slay everyone if he trained constantly to improve his mechanics? The problem is that once again, we don't know. What matters is the facts, Koreans are better and that's that.
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Carmac always seems so cool. Nice writeup and interviews. Thanks^^
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On October 13 2011 17:10 chocopaw wrote: TOP > Puma? No fucking way. When I looked at the NY groups I thought it was definitely less stacked then Ghuangzou. Hahaha, oh you... fanboy much?
As I kind of like the whole korea vs the world thing and not korean terrans vs korean terrans, I think this is the tournament to watch, at least for the majority of the matches.
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Wait Guangzhou just barely ended and it's already time for New York? Not that I'm complaining or anything. DRG should take this but because of his ZvP Mana is the biggest threat to beat him, assuming Mana gets far enough to face DRG. TOP is good but I don't think his playstyle is dynamic enough to be upset-proof. I love Killer but as we saw Cologne there isn't anything special about him at all. Fruitdealer is just bad, but he also got the weakest group.
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I don't get the obsession with separating the non-Korean trained foreigners. Chinese national curling teams train in Canada because that's where they can play against better teams, get the best coaches, and have the best facilities. When they win, do Chinese people say "oh, but we're waiting for a non-Canadian trained Chinese team to win". ??
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Pokebunny is our hometown hero, Fighting!
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Pokebunny has a good head on those shoulders. Hope nothing but the best for you Poke!
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While I agree that Koreans are probably going to win the event, I don't really understand why there needs to be all these qualifiers regarding tournament results. I think it's sufficient to say that foreigners can beat Koreans, but statistically you're still likely to see the Koreans take up the entire podium. The way it's being stated now just makes it seem like you're grasping at straws to keep this facade that Koreans are significantly better than foreigners.
Pokebunny, though, is awesome. I don't know much about him, but from this interview it seems like he has the proper mindset to lead this dual life. I hope he puts up a good showing in the tournament!
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On October 13 2011 21:03 HappyChris wrote: I really feel alot of TL staff writers lives in the year 2000 still and are used to complet korean domination from the BW era.
So in IPL there wasnt top koreans there? ok.........nutz
MaNa is one of the best protoss in EU and he is the only terran I seen beat puma offline and online. Im so sure that Top will not beat MaNa.
Also MaNa had one of the worst PvZ in EU for a very long time until he meet Stephano and trained with him. So now Mana got a really good PvZ.
Dont be supriced if it ends in a MaNa vs DRG final and MaNa wins it.
PS. Starcraft 2 isnt broodwar alot has changed. I feel like whatever a foreign player does its a no win situation.
You beat a korean? well he was proberly jetlagged. So Stephano you won a 100k dollars tournament full of koreans? Not good enough they wasnt the best korean.
So Dimaga you beat Nestea and MVP once and JYP at IEM. Not good enough you were just lucky
So Idra you won IEM while beating Puma and revival. Not good enough idra it was proberly a match fix and revival isnt that good anyway
its really starting to look like some unconcience racisme towards the foreigner players. No matter what they do there is alllways a but or some other excuse
Plz TL writers stop living in the BW era and wake up
Top doesn't have a chance of beating MaNa? What?
Your argument would have been more plausible if you say that FD will go 0-3 in his group. Even then I would suppose he won't.
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On October 13 2011 21:19 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 21:03 HappyChris wrote: I really feel alot of TL staff writers lives in the year 2000 still and are used to complet korean domination from the BW era.
So in IPL there wasnt top koreans there? ok.........nutz
MaNa is one of the best protoss in EU and he is the only terran I seen beat puma offline and online. Im so sure that Top will not beat MaNa.
Also MaNa had one of the worst PvZ in EU for a very long time until he meet Stephano and trained with him. So now Mana got a really good PvZ.
Dont be supriced if it ends in a MaNa vs DRG final and MaNa wins it.
PS. Starcraft 2 isnt broodwar alot has changed. I feel like whatever a foreign player does its a no win situation.
You beat a korean? well he was proberly jetlagged. So Stephano you won a 100k dollars tournament full of koreans? Not good enough they wasnt the best korean.
So Dimga you beat Nestea and MVP once and JYP at IEM. Not good enough you were just lucky
So Idra you won IEM while beating Puma and revival. Not good enough idra it was proberly a match fix and revival isnt that good anyway
its really starting to look like some unconcience racisme towards the foreigner players. No matter what they do there is alllways a but or some other excuse
Plz TL writers stop living in the BW era and wake up
- the following Code S players were at IPL3: HuK - MaNa has the best foreign PvT, PuMa has a foreign event schedule and wasn't a super top tier Korean player anyway - Stephano won 30k, and it's they weren't the best Koreans. - Dimaga beat NesTea in ZvZ, something unheard of. Awesome. An occurrence. - Revival not a top player, already talked about PuMa It's not racism, and it's certainly not BW elitism either. It has been proven that the best foreigners can compete with the best Koreans. Without a significant foreign presence in Code S, you cannot possibly hope to deny that Koreans are outright better. Stephano's win? Amazing. He played brilliantly. Did you watch NesTea vs MVP? Do you think Stephano can stand up to that? You might, I don't, but what's important in this is that we don't know.
Thx for proving my point.
Btw at IPL3: You had MMA,Alive,Huk,Ryung all Code S. I find it quite funny you speak so highly about the skill difference between the koreans and the foreigners but you dont even know who is in Code S
And Lucky proberly gonna be Code S soon
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On October 13 2011 21:19 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 21:03 HappyChris wrote: I really feel alot of TL staff writers lives in the year 2000 still and are used to complet korean domination from the BW era.
So in IPL there wasnt top koreans there? ok.........nutz
MaNa is one of the best protoss in EU and he is the only terran I seen beat puma offline and online. Im so sure that Top will not beat MaNa.
Also MaNa had one of the worst PvZ in EU for a very long time until he meet Stephano and trained with him. So now Mana got a really good PvZ.
Dont be supriced if it ends in a MaNa vs DRG final and MaNa wins it.
PS. Starcraft 2 isnt broodwar alot has changed. I feel like whatever a foreign player does its a no win situation.
You beat a korean? well he was proberly jetlagged. So Stephano you won a 100k dollars tournament full of koreans? Not good enough they wasnt the best korean.
So Dimga you beat Nestea and MVP once and JYP at IEM. Not good enough you were just lucky
So Idra you won IEM while beating Puma and revival. Not good enough idra it was proberly a match fix and revival isnt that good anyway
its really starting to look like some unconcience racisme towards the foreigner players. No matter what they do there is alllways a but or some other excuse
Plz TL writers stop living in the BW era and wake up
- the following Code S players were at IPL3: HuK - MaNa has the best foreign PvT, PuMa has a foreign event schedule and wasn't a super top tier Korean player anyway - Stephano won 30k, and it's they weren't the best Koreans. - Dimaga beat NesTea in ZvZ, something unheard of. Awesome. An occurrence. - Revival not a top player, already talked about PuMa It's not racism, and it's certainly not BW elitism either. It has been proven that the best foreigners can compete with the best Koreans. Without a significant foreign presence in Code S, you cannot possibly hope to deny that Koreans are outright better. Stephano's win? Amazing. He played brilliantly. Did you watch NesTea vs MVP? Do you think Stephano can stand up to that? You might, I don't, but what's important in this is that we don't know. Koreans are the best. It's not racism or BW elitism, it's fact. You don't think every foreign fan, including TL's writers, wants foreigners to win? Of course they do! What matters is that the Koreans at this tournament are significantly better than the majority of foreign players, and this tournament has less talent than the upcoming MLG. Korean players live in their team house and practice more than foreign players, within a group of people all living for this game. It is not blood or talent that makes them better, it is the work ethic. No matter what glimpses of brilliance we see from foreign players, they will always be behind the Koreans if they're not fully dedicating their entire lives to this game, which many are not. Look at iNcontroL for example, he is a progamer however he dedicates a lot of time he could be practicing to doing things for the community, being on shows, casting, coaching etc. You don't think Stephano being as good as he is with 2 hours a day could be up there with the best of the Koreans if he was living there? You think GoOdy, the panzer general with low APM that fully queues his factories, regarded as one of the best mech players in the world, wouldn't slay everyone if he trained constantly to improve his mechanics? The problem is that once again, we don't know. What matters is the facts, Koreans are better and that's that.
So MMA, aLive and Ryung aren't Code S players? They were at IPL you know?
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Cool interview with Pokebunny!
Srry guys, Darkcell has this one tho :/
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Great and interestng interview with Carmac.
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Really like Carmac interviews, it's good to know someone like him is in charge of IEM.
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A lot of these articles are almost trollish in the manner in which they're worded to be sensational and discussion provoking; but they get special graphics and a front page nod so they can't possibly be massive trollfests, right?
What happens when DRG and TOP finally lose to non-Koreans? Do you come back and edit the article with 'my bad lol j/k'?
On October 13 2011 19:30 Paladia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:14 Grettin wrote:On October 13 2011 17:04 tOTOM wrote: Just for information, Stephano already beat MarineKing, Puzzle, Revival and MMA for the IPL 3 qualification... "Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals." Great write-up Wax! Carmac interview was amazing! Have a good time in IEM! TSL3?
Oh god, you're just asking to get pounced upon with this. The only LAN component was the finals. If everything from the RO16 on was live, that would've easily been a couple of Koreans vying for the cash. Though I'm somewhat critical of the article itself, TSL3 soooooo wasn't an example of 'top Koreans losing to legit westerners'.
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wow. I am surprised at pokebunny's mental maturity level. Earned a fan today.
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"Obviously, Fruitdealer's grandmother will be better than the top 15 from the U.S."
I really enjoyed that Carmac interview lol
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Why do these fracking threads never have the date of the actual tournament!?!? The OP is a very logical place to put the time and date of the tournament being discussed, why make me go elsewhere to find it -_-
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Rooting for Mana, DRG and Top in that order.
Mana is an incredibly solid player and I feel like he has a good shot at taking this whole thing if he keeps himself focused. I wouldn't say he's a favorite vs Top but I'm not counting him out either. I actually expect Mana and Top to take their group with relatively little trouble ( no offense to tt1 and pokebunny)
DRG I like just because I find his personality charming. With him backing out of MLG to do IEM instead I'd like to see him do well and perhaps show off some new builds. With his TvZ being slowly figured out we may see DRG try something different. Mostly though I want to see DRG vs non terrans, his other two matchups tend to lead to quite interesting games.
Top is again a really solid player whom I found myself growing fond of as last season progressed and he became "the little Ogs-terran that could ". Moving past the gsl finalist curse that put him in the up/downs to win a big international event during the same season would be nice compensation for Top. He has the skills to win and likely the drive, whether or not he can put it together and pull out a victory remains to be seen though.
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Whatchu talkin' bout Pokebunny?! Artosis is the #1 player hailing from NY!
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On October 13 2011 22:42 AutomatonOmega wrote: A lot of these articles are almost trollish in the manner in which they're worded to be sensational and discussion provoking; but they get special graphics and a front page nod so they can't possibly be massive trollfests, right?
What happens when DRG and TOP finally lose to non-Koreans? Do you come back and edit the article with 'my bad lol j/k'?
Yup i agree about the trollish article... Sadly the TL writters have no faith in western players. And even if they win its always that: a) the korean wasn't a top player (LOL) b) korean got jetlagged c) it was online so it doesnt count.
Oh and about TOP losing... DreamHack Winter 2010 Yeah like losing to Naaama and Fenix doesnt count....
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Wow, that Carmac interview really impressed me. That guy is a boss.
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pretending there is a huge skill gap between top 10 koreans and top 20 (or even top 30) koreans is hilarious
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On October 13 2011 23:02 CaptainCrush wrote: Why do these fracking threads never have the date of the actual tournament!?!? The OP is a very logical place to put the time and date of the tournament being discussed, why make me go elsewhere to find it -_- If you sneek a pek on towards the right side of the site, you'll see that IEM NY is currently 1h 29m away. Cheers.
I'll try to watch as much IEM as I can, but MLG remains the top priority. TOP fighting!
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I'll be going and spectating - looking forward to it!
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did you look at the list of players stephano actually beat, before saying 'top 10 koreans' etc.
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well mana is pretty much a baller so id pick him top 3 definately
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Note to the author, London's the greatest city in the world!!!!
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On October 14 2011 00:42 Mikey wrote: did you look at the list of players stephano actually beat, before saying 'top 10 koreans' etc.
Are the players he beat top 10 in your opinion? I'm pretty sure he is still comparing them to this which has two players who he did actually beat.
Without commenting about how good the player list were or anything, am i really that blind or are you even reading the article he wrote at all?
I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...)
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thank you for the write-up!
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On October 14 2011 00:53 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 00:42 Mikey wrote: did you look at the list of players stephano actually beat, before saying 'top 10 koreans' etc. Are the players he beat top 10 in your opinion? I'm pretty sure he is still comparing them to this which has two players who he did actually beat. Without commenting about how good the player list were or anything, am i really that blind or are you even reading the article he wrote at all? Show nested quote +I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...) Stephano actually ran into MMA on his path to qualification and won...
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I don't like that article. The text is really subjective and I get the impression that the author just wanted to downplay stephano's tournament win.
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On October 14 2011 01:05 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 00:53 Grettin wrote:On October 14 2011 00:42 Mikey wrote: did you look at the list of players stephano actually beat, before saying 'top 10 koreans' etc. Are the players he beat top 10 in your opinion? I'm pretty sure he is still comparing them to this which has two players who he did actually beat. Without commenting about how good the player list were or anything, am i really that blind or are you even reading the article he wrote at all? I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. The best foreigners have been able to beat Koreans for quite a while; it's just that the very best Koreans form a nigh impenetrable wall in front of the medal podium. The guys at Guangzhou and Atlantic City were pretty good, but they weren't exactly top ten players. (Though if Stephano had run into MMA on his path, then that would have been quite interesting...) Stephano actually ran into MMA on his path to qualification and won...
And i did mention it. If this is what WaxAngel thinks, let it be so? I'm by no means saying that it wasn't impressive or hard at all, in fact, i still think that he was or is the closest foreigner to win a tournament against top class Korean professional. The hardest opponent he could have faced in the tournament was MMA, but the players he beat wasn't top 10 at all or even near it, so Wax has a point.
E: actually now that i look at the matches Stephano played, he didn't play against MMA (or Ruyng) in the tournament at all, only in the qualifiers as you said.
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"Show Start is Delayed. Venue is facing bandwidth problems on the internet connection. We will keep you updated. Please stand by." from the IEM stream
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Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals.
I was about to say "what about HuK?", then i saw this at the end:
*More specifically, "non-Korea trained foreigners," since a oGs-TL house residing HuK did win HSC3 and DH Summer. Anyway, HuK should just be considered a Korean.
It's really tiny, barely could see it. Maybe it's just me who's blind or use too small font on browser. Very well written article, nice job! =D
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On October 13 2011 17:11 KiNGxXx wrote:Thanks. Nice read! BUT I don't like that: Show nested quote +I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. There are two top koreans: MVP and NesTea. All of the others are around the same level (Ryung, DRG, MMA ...). It's not Stephano's fault that MVP and NesTea weren't at IPL. Don't talk this victory down. There were a lot of awesome players from korea who didn't manage do win this tournament. I don't know why in almost every TL article the writer has to say something like "yeah, nice win BUT we all know it wasn't that hard..." I would like to see more: "Yeah, after the great success of the foreign world in IPL we will maybe have another tournament without a korean winner because Mana (or other players) is a boss and had already shown his skills vs korean!" Don't get me wrong, great article but I would love to see more positive vibe. I agree, the two foreigner wins were legitimate and the writer seemed to just shrug them off. Otherwise good article!
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Pokebunny!!! You did a wonderful job representing our community in this interview. <3 The Smurf mention totally made me say "awww" hahaha. Can't wait to see you kick some butt this weekend, gl kid!
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Gonna be a great tournament - although I think only MaNa, elfi, and Sjow stand a chance against the Dong, I'll still be rooting for them!
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Very well written article, thank you. Was rather interesting reading up about IEM NY, which made me all the more excited for this event. Well done to Pokebunny for being such a good player, I really liked his interview and wish him all the best in his future endeavours.
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oh I didn't realize MLG and IEM was on the same weekend. That makes me sad.
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Anybody knows why there is a delay and when it will start? Can't find any official info...
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Not a lot of tournament runners are willing to comment on the size of their players' balls. I commend that attitude.
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All that I'd heard about Pokebunny seems to be true - very realistic and mature outlook on life; will be exciting to see how he does
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On October 13 2011 17:19 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 17:11 KiNGxXx wrote:Thanks. Nice read! BUT I don't like that: I'm not ignoring IEM Guangzhou or IPL3, but we have to be objective about the situation here. Foreigners* still haven't won a tournament against top class Korean professionals. There are two top koreans: MVP and NesTea. All of the others are around the same level (Ryung, DRG, MMA ...). It's not Stephano's fault that MVP and NesTea weren't at IPL. Don't talk this victory down. There were a lot of awesome players from korea who didn't manage do win this tournament. I don't know why in almost every TL article the writer has to say something like "yeah, nice win BUT we all know it wasn't that hard..." I would like to see more: "Yeah, after the great success of the foreign world in IPL we will maybe have another tournament without a korean winner because Mana (or other players) is a boss and had already shown his skills vs korean!" Don't get me wrong, great article but I would love to see more positive vibe. and the joke is, that both mvp and nestea got beaten by dimaga its funny so many people live in their fantasy broodwar world, this is sc2 and here the absolut top none koreans can beat the top koreans, even if their chances are small to win they still can
Fact
NesTea-Dimaga 2-2 Mvp beat Dimaga with 30 min macro but suddenly computer dropped (even Dimaga himself confessed that actually he lost to mvp in that game)
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What? What? What? Your hero DRG just loose!?!?!?! And Strelok took a game out of him? I am glad to see that even the non top foreigners can beat top Koreans! I say that to those who think that korean have some more than just plenty of practice time!
I hope to see more and more foregneirs becoming far better than Korean in the near future!!! Go foreigners!!! Go!!!
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Stephano had a very convincing win at IPL3, even with so many strong koreans. He did actually beat MMA in the qualifier as well, but w/e
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Exactly what I was about to say.
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Pokebunny is cool. Nice interview.
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Sorry but I am actually confused, so confused I had to sign in to make sure somebody mentioned this before I read all the comments...
HOW were there NO TOP KOREANS in IPL 3?
MMA and Ryung are both in code S.
And they both got taken out btw IPL obviously had a ton of talent but those were the only two in code S at the time. And another thing is that MMA is in Ro4 right now sooo. I mean DRG hasn't done shit in code S and top is an all around great player but not significantly better than MMA and not better at tvt than ryung from what I can see. Soo I believe you point isn't valid.
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Carmac is a gentleman and a scholar.
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United States285 Posts
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It's quite ridiculous to hear that now Puma, MMA, Ryung and MC are not top class Koreans and TOP actually is. WTF? I don't rate Puma too high, but TOP is much worse than even him, IMO. And he certainly doesn't compare to his teammate MC, and may be even TheSTC.
It's getting ridiculous how some downplay foreigners achievements and go over the top with the praise of Koreans on here. Truly ridiculous.
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Looks they were strategic about how it is running with MLG. I'm looking at the two friday schedules, MLG starts at 5 EST while IEM NYC has its last game starting at 5;30, and the finals are hours apart. Did the best they could I think, thanks guys. + Show Spoiler +Also, awesome tourny thus far! Some might complain about the unorthodox play but I'm loving the unpredictability of these match ups. (not sure if that's really a spoiler but w/e better safe than sorry, right?)
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To say Stephano vs. MMA would've been interesting iS as ridicules as saying watching paint dry or grass would is interesting. MMA would've absolutely without a doubt have wrecked Stephano not letting him win a game. None of the games would've gone over 13-15mins. So I do believe that statement made there is completely and utterly false.
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On October 15 2011 16:00 Catatonic wrote:To say Stephano vs. MMA would've been interesting iS as ridicules as saying watching paint dry or grass would is interesting. MMA would've absolutely without a doubt have wrecked Stephano not letting him win a game. None of the games would've gone over 13-15mins. So I do believe that statement made there is completely and utterly false.
thaths why lucky 3-0'd him and stephano 4-0'd lucky after that. >_>
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