There's something special about teamleagues. There just is. While it's great to see one player face down another, to see the individual play and brilliance that is showcased in almost all of the tournaments that we cover and watch, teamleagues are somehow more compelling. There's a sense that something extra is on the line, because one player at a time has the weight of their entire team and the fans of that team, and the fans of all the other players on that team. That's why in BW it was proleague and not the starleagues that was most important to the players.
For the foreign scene, we have lacked a serious teamleague for a long time. A teamleague should be regular, but rare. It should include as many top teams as possible. It should treat itself with respect and offer a solid prize-pool.
It should bring out the best players of every team, every time, and generate the same passion and excitement in the fans as do individual events.
In it's first season, the IPL Team Arena Challenge accomplished all of that. The games drew out players like DongRaeGu, MMA, and MVP. The dramatic finals between Mousesports and QIM was one of the highlights of the year, and gave the foreign scene a huge reason to be proud. This year, the IPL TAC returns, not just as an upstart league, but the largest and best supported foreign teamleague in starcraft two. That is why IPL TAC #2 is the first foreign teamleague that TL has covered on the frontpage in at least a very long time. We hope that this event will spark better and brighter events like it for the foreign and Korean scene, and that very soon, we'll have an event to rival the BW proleague, an event that becomes the top priority for players, and maybe where we can take in the finals live on a beach in Busan.
The action starts tonight with NSHoSeo squaring off against Dignitas. Can't wait.
First Round Previews
By Deezl
*EDITOR'S NOTE: The predictions are for fun, we have no idea what's going to happen, and neither does anyone else. Take them with a grain of salt, we know we picked optimistically on the foreigner side. The analysis of the match-up is serious though, if you want to object about bias, object to the write-up...!
Mousesports vs. Quantic
Mousesports returns after a stunning run in the previous season of Team Arena where they took a second place finish amidst a field of Koreans, including defeating the tyrants of the GSTL, SlayerS. Curiously, their first opponent is one half of the team that beat them a sound 5-3 in the finals last year—Quantic (formerly of QIM).
However, as good as Quantic is, they are significantly less scary without the muscle of IM backing them up, and so Mousesports ought to be considered the favorites here. Their top line-up of ThorZaIN, MaNa, and MorroW has done wonders for them, as at least one always seems to come up big when they need it most. In the reserves, biGs, HasuObs, and (possibly) HeRoMaRinE represent a strong line-up in their own right, and are capable of providing a solid foundation for the team aces. biGs especially has made waves recently on ladder, marching all the way up into the top 20 EU GM (as of this writing) and has been seen higher.
For Quantic, success will depend on their two aces, SaSe and the enigmatic NaNiwa. While little has been heard from SaSe recently, that's not an indication of fading skill by any means. For NaNiwa, a trip to IEM Kiev ended in disappointment, but he can make up for it with a strong performance here. His recent play has seemed more refined than ever, even if it might have lacked variety at IEM. For Mousesports, the road to winning this runs through the two Quantic protoss aces, and their potential-packed Korean pick-up Apocalypse. Any losses taken to Quantic's rearguard, most notably Theognis and Shuffle, will be bad unforced errors. If Mouse can put SaSe and NaNiwa into the position of having to all-kill or something like it, then they'll be where they want to be, and should win.
Prediction: Mousesports 5-3.
New Star HoSeo vs. Dignitas
I’m excited about this match, not only to see how Dignitas fares against the star-factory that NSHoseo is beginning to become, but also which new players NSHoseo will send out. NSHoSeo is new to the foreign teamleague circuit, so how seriously they take the main event here is something of a mystery. It seemed that in the GSTL every other week we’d see a new crazy player with customized NSHoseo builds, but the team has been out of the spotlight for a little while.
Dignitas has always been a powerhouse in the European scene, but they seem to be getting a little rusty around the edges. SeleCT and SjoW have been notably absent from their representative scenes, and the only players who have garnered recent attention are players that were their traditional second tier—Killer, DreAm and BlinG. Those players alone probably won't cut it if NSHoSeo takes this at all seriously.
But the Koreans are just as liable to be a bit surprised by the fight in the foreign team, and Dignitas does have plenty of talent. I'd love to see some great games from the Dignitas up-and-comers, and a resurgence from SeleCT here.
Prediction: 5-3 New Star HoSeo
EG vs. oGs
This is another match that I’m greatly looking forward to. oGs is a traditional powerhouse, but is recently out of both MC, who just transferred to SK Gaming, and Code-S stalwart Zenio, who moved out of the house and is now on Team Liquid. EG on the other hand has just acquired JYP, the TSL Protoss ace that spent this season in Code S.
But don’t overlook oGs; they're still a rock solid team with a number of very good players, and their newest ace, oGsFin, is a daunting broodwar professional with a stack of precision builds and cheeses. TheStC showed reasonable finishes at foreign events last year as well, and they’ll be looking to SuperNova to show some consistency and come through for them big this match-up.
EG’s line-up is also to be feared. IdrA has had some time off to practice and prepare, and has proven time and time again that he can rise against the best players in the world. JYP is a strategic protoss with a weakness to Terran but is extremely good against protoss and zerg. Puma is a foreign tournament beast but has yet to really make his mark in Korea. And we haven’t heard much from Huk lately, but we know he's good, and this will be a chance to see what he’s been up to. I think there’s a lot of potential in a front-loaded EG team, but each player has clear weaknesses which can more easily be exploited in a team league format.
My thoughts? This is especially a fascinating match because both teams will play with even lag on the Korean server. I think if HuK plays, his performance against the oGs Terrans will be pivotal to an EG win, as terrans could prove EG's achilles heal. IdrA’s mood will also have a lot to do with what calibre of player he can draw out and who he can defeat.
I think this is going to be the must-watch series of the opening rounds.
Prediction: 5-4 EG
coL.MVP vs. Team Liquid
One of the first and most interesting foreign team partnerships, coL.MVP, takes on one of the most visible teams around in, TLAF-Liquid, and this one is going to be a slugfest. No offense to the players at compLexity, but there is a clear disparity in skill between their American-based Sc2 squad led by fearless leader CatZ and their Korean counterparts at MvP. With the double elimination format and the importance of not falling out in the first round, I think we’re going to see a lot more MVP than compLexity, and Liquid has the talent to bring it out.
Team Liquid, meanwhile, has a consistent and experienced roster that makes strong tournament showings in the international scene. Their Zerg lineup of Sheth, Ret, Zenio, TLO, and Haypro is diverse and dangerous, and HerO has shown before that he can take on anyone. But they lack a solid terran option as Jinro continues to slump, and they might lack a protoss option as well, as HerO has seemed out of sorts for a month now. If they rely on their zergs alone, they can go places, but wins might be hard to come by. Moreover, in the last IPL TAC, Liquid` bowed out shockingly early, notching a 1-10 total record against ReIGN and QIM.
coLMVP’s roster is larger by far, but despite last season's tremendous inspiration from Keen, the limited consistency of Noblesse and everyone else means they lack aces outside of their team league standby, DongRaeGu. They have the addition of qxc as a wildcard, who was one of the scariest players in the foreign scene when he was in form, but nobody knows how much he’s been practicing with his studies. Otherwise, it's hard to see who will come out from the compLexity side of things. MvP has sent players like finale and TAiLS out before, but could get DRG and Genius if needed. Liquid` will need to beat some serious aces to advance.
The ace match-up to look for by far is going to be DongRaeGu against Hero. Hero has legendary PvZ, with sublime builds and harassment techniques and famous warp prism usage. DongRaeGu, on the other hand, is known primarily for his ZvT matchup, but is no slouch with mutalisks in any situation and has been on fire recently, while Hero has had trouble getting out of code A. I predict a long management game if it occurs, and the winner will be simply who can anticipate the other player the best.
Whoever survives that match has a high chance of taking running games off of the other team and taking a huge lead or sweeping from there. Call it bias if you want, (ok, yeah, it's clearly bias) but my bet is on a Liquid win - I think that even if Hero doesn’t come through for them, they still have strong outs in Zenio, Ret and Sheth, and their motivation after last IPL TAC will propel them to the top.
Prediction: Liquid` 5-4 in some great games.
By Treehugger
Team SCV Life vs ReIGN
On paper, this could be simple; Korean team, foreign team, Koreans win. But there's a lot more at play here that has a potential upset written all over it. First off, TSL has been undergone a ton of stress and difficulty recently, with aLive and possibly Heart having left the team, and their Coach becoming embroiled in a ton of drama. The situation in the team house cannot be good, and there's definitely reason to worry that the team can compete to the best of their abilities here, let alone make it through the season without disbanding. And secondly, ReIGN looks like a team on a mission, falling by the slimmest of margins to FXO in the NASL Teamleague. Against a weakened Korean opponent here, they must seize the opportunity.
TSL has but a skeleton crew left over, and so we know pretty much exactly who will play for them. RevivaL, Symbol, and HyuN make up their main zerg line-up, Polt is their lone proven terran, and Cyrano their only protoss (EN: Forgot about Dream). Of the bunch, only Polt and RevivaL are heavily tested, while Symbol has some good online results, and Cyrano has nothing in a year. The most interesting of their players is HyuN, who is the most recent elephant to switch over from BW, and who made it into Code A on his first try.
For ReIGN, there are only slightly less options, with four players currently on the top roster. But the line-up is a lot more colorful and experienced. Artist and Inori are their two Korean aces, and both will be surely called into service. While Inori's PvP sniping skills will be less needed here, Artist needs to have a big day if ReIGN is to advance here. KiWiKaKi and SLush bring up the next line of defense, and they can go toe to toe with the Koreans as well, especially if they break out the surprising strategies that they're well known for. That leaves us with Axslav, giX and Future, one of whom could play, and two who will not. Neither will be favored against any of the TSL players, although Axslav would definitely have the best chance of the bunch. His recent acquisition however, might not make him elidgible to play. We might simply see one of ReIGN's reserve players come out first to draw out the first TSL player and allow them to be better sniped.
ReIGN has good results recently, but this is a tough match for them. If they can get beyond Polt however, things open up. The recent disarray in the TSL house and the absence of aLive hurts TSL a good deal, and that ought to be enough.
Prediction: 5-2 ReIGN
FXO vs Vile
Vile had a tremendous run through the qualifiers, make no mistake about it. Comfortably beating mTw, Clash, imba.FXO, and finally ZeNex, this is a team that clearly has a confidence in itself that it didn't tell anyone else about. Still, on paper, I just don't see it; ChAnCe, Illusion, State and Yong make up a good front four, and DdoRo, Hawk, and Spanishiwa have notched a few MLG wins here and there. It's a vastly better line-up that you might've remembered. But is it really enough to take on an elite Korean team like FXO? My heart says yes, but my brain says; prove it again.
FXO is one of the most highly regarded teams out there. GuMiHo, Lucky, Leenock, and Oz represent not just four ace players, but four of the most talented and fastest rising players in the world. Moreover, FXO has shown their willingness to deploy them in foreign teamleagues, and so Vile must plan to run the full gauntlet if they want to succeed. Their potential fifth could be anyone, maybe team coach Choya, the famous TheBest, or perhaps one of their foreign players. But the point is that FXO's line-up will probably be the toughest thing anyone will see in this teamleague, and that's not a good sign for Vile.
If the North Americans win, it'll be because they bottled the magic that propelled them through the qualifiers, and distributed heavy doses. You can qualify their win somewhat, they never met a top Korean team until the finals, where they played a ZeNex team that had already made it through. But that only goes so far; imba.FXO and mTw have strong players, and Clash is made up of Code B Koreans. Vile did truly earn their spot here, but against FXO it's hard to see much of a path to victory. One issue might be that their players aren't really exposed a great deal, and so it's hard to judge the skill of the players. But in the qualifier, they leaned surprisingly little on Yong, and very much on ChAnCe and State, who came up big on multiple occasions. Same deal applies here, and Ilusion and Yong will need to provide more support than what was shown in the qualifiers.
Ah, if Vile wins, it'll already be one of the stories of the tournament, but the fantastic four of FXO look too strong to me. I expect Vile to get a couple nice wins, but nothing beyond that.
Prediction: FXO 5-2
Startale vs ZeNex
Did ZeNex dodge a bullet when SlayerS withdrew? Maybe they did, but with Startale as the replacement, you still can't say they got it easy. Despite a series of ever-more ridiculous logos, ST has continued to produce reliably good players for a while now, and even if none of them ever make it all the way, this is a team that is strong and definitely still a better one than poor ZeNex.
The perpetual bottom feeders of the GSTL, ZeNex has had some ups, but mostly downs in Sc2. Their qualification to this event was proof that they still can notch wins, but losing to Vile in the finals didn't help their case so much. In that event, they relied heavily on Sparta, with EXTREME, Life, Pet, Mushroom, and Cutter all making appearances. If you don't know these players, don't worry, you probably shouldn't. Against Startale, what worked against x6, It's GoSu, and DTG probably won't again, but what choice does ZeNex have? Life is their ace, and he'll need to be their workhorse if they hope to advance. If EXTREME and Sparta can get a few wins before passing it off to him, it's probably where ZeNex expects to be. Mushroom, Pet, and the rest have rarely ever been impressive, and if Startale doesn't ignore this completely, they shouldn't give up ground to ZeNex's leftovers.
For Startale, there's a wealth of excellent talent that all feels like it failed to meet it's full potential. Of course, there's Bomber, but there's also AcE and Squirtle, perhaps the two most disappointing players in Sc2. But they're still good, of course, and still dangerous for ZeNex. The current leaders of ST are Curious and PartinG, who both could really be something if only they'd.... go out and do it. PartinG is something of a PvT expert, and so don't expect Sparta to make it past him. Curious is a super player all around, but his ZvZ is particularly good, and so he will be Startale's most likely response to Life. And if not, there's always Bomber.
ZeNex isn't the better team here, and with Startale on even latency, there's nothing weird to get in the way of the ST win.
Prediction: Startale 5-2
Prime vs Empire
In yet another Korea vs International team battle, the Eastern European-heavy Empire take on the GSTL runners-up Prime. Empire is another extremely worthy foreign opponent, and their recent runs in the EGMC and the last GCPL attest to their ability to hang with, and upset the most famous teams in the foreign scene. For Prime, they are often underappreciaed as a Korean team, with MKP being their only real noteworthy player.
But Prime is dangerous, and in the past, players like Creator, AnNyeong, BbongBbong and cOre have proven their use along with MKP. They made it to the GSTL finals with a lot of nerve and a great team attitude that had them celebrating like madmen when they were put through into the playoffs. If they bring that kind of fire to the IPL TAC, then they will do seriously well. But if they mail it in, or if the magic isn't there anymore, they could get upset here.
Empire actually may be the best foreign vs korean chance in the tournament. Led by the Beast from the East; Kas, and backed up by one of Europe's most underrated players in Beastyqt, they have plenty of explosive potential. The predictable, safe, and solid Happy will become less predictable when he plays opponents who don't know him, and thus he could make some waves here as well. Most importantly, the addition of viOlet last week gives Empire some semblance of racial diversity, and also gives them a credible threat against protoss, which was previous a gaping weakness. If they play the series intelligently, springing viOlet on Creator or cOre, then they could clean up with the brunt of their powerful terran attack.
Maybe the toughest call of the entire first round for me, I'd love to pick Empire here, but my gut says that Prime will find a way to pull it out. What's a TL newspost however without liberal helpings of foreigner bias?
Prediction: Empire 5-3
On Teamleagues
By Endymion Since the release of Starcraft 2, it feels to me that many of Team Liquid's newer users and fans of Sc2 have a tendency to favor tournaments which feature a single player, rather than formats like Brood War's Proleague format. The preference of these fans, have led to a strong trend of events that largely ignore the existence of teams throughout the foreigner scene. Teamkills happen regularly, players from the same team are put in similar timeslots, and rarely do full teams ever get together at one spot. Of course, every major tournament that we have outside of Korea (IPL, MLG, Dreamhack) wants only the best of the best, which aligns with Starcraft's mentality of survival of the fittest. Plus, teams are difficult to schedule, and much more expensive to fly around for a live event.
However, it's really not preferable in the long run to have only individual events. If you ask anyone who watches Starcraft who their favorite player is, they'll no doubt name an "all-star" foreigner, from Stephano to Idra. However, ask them for the name of their teammates, and they might be at a complete loss. The team league format serves to expose and train the lesser known players who would otherwise have been knocked out early from major tournaments, forcing them to have a minimal fan base. This can lead to burnout or discouragement, seen in the recent departures from major foreigner teams throughout the scene. However, in a team league format these players would have a chance to establish themselves against bigger names than otherwise possible, allowing them to develop builds to "snipe" big name players, and win fame and glory on their own.
If you're new to the community and you haven't witnessed any of the great teamleague moments, I would highly recommend that you go back and check out some old Broodwar VODs of Proleague, it's really quite wonderful, and not just for a BW fan. Teamleague creates moments that you never would get see at any other point. A moment that immediately comes to mind is the match between Jaedong vs Fantasy on Outsider in Shinhan Bank Proleague 2009 Grand Finals. A build that Boxer created in the SKT1 house; a two barracks marine-only cheese, was perfected by Fantasy and the SKT1 zergs. In the first of two potential ace matches, it caught the greatest zerg in the world totally by surprise and brought SKT1 the final in decisive fashion.
Another classic moment was the reverse all-kill led by the almost completely unknown CJ terran sKyHigh, where he defeated Jaedong and the rest of Hwaseung Oz in the winners-league finals of that same year. The win catapulted sKyHigh to fame, and although he would ultimately never find the success that he hinted out that day, the heights of that victory are still remembered. Or perhaps some people remember the snipe build by another CJ rookie Snow a year later, in which he defeated Flash PvT, just weeks after Flash claimed to have achieved nirvana in the match-up. Snow was a complete surprise as an ace pick, and he executed a build that used everything Flash knew about TvP against him, finally winning with a deadly carrier switch in a split map situation. Many fans remember the individual leagues, but the proleague memories are the ones that burn the brightest, because they felt like the triumphs of a huge army of supporters, not just a single player. When teams and fans feel like they're part of a family, when they share the same ups and downs, and when they go it together, we're all better for it.
So as the IPL Team Arena Challenge starts up, and fans pick sides and tune in, it's worth a trip down memory lane to remember just how good teamleagues can be.
Interview with IPL Operations Manager Frank Fields
Please start by introducing yourself!
Frank Fields: My name is Frank Fields. I'm from Dayton Ohio, but now live in San Leandro California. I'm the StarCraft II Operations Manager for IPL and the President and Owner of Team ReIGN.
Take us back to the beginning of the IPL Team Arena. How did the idea come about to branch out from the IPL events and run a team competition?
I have always believed that team matches are more exciting than individual matches, and I knew from people working in the GSL that GSTL was getting more views than GSL finals. I come from a WC3 background and back then the best players were determined not by performances in ESWC or WCG, but by their performances in WC3L, the premier team league at the time (run by ESL). At the time also there were an abundance of solo showmatches going on and it annoyed me that there weren't very many team leagues running So I decided we could run a showmatch in a team format and that it would likely get a higher viewer draw than many of the individual showmatches that were frequent at the time. Luckily it was very successful, and it worked out that my own team won the first 4 weeks
Did the concept of the Team Arena Challenge come once the regular weekly Team Arena was a hit, or was it always in the cards?
It wasn't until about the 8th week when teams rosters had really shifted that we wanted to put them back on, but we realized it wasn't quite fair to other top teams to recycle teams without including new ones, so we decided to hold a tournament to expose many teams, the best teams we could get at the time, to play in a double elimination tournament. We basically saw it at that time at an improvement on GSTL, which almost all fans loved.
It seems fair to say that IPL TAC #1 was a great success by all fan metrics. Internally, how did IPL feel about the event?
Like all events, internally we felt there was a lot more we could improve upon. The biggest obstacle were scheduling issues with all the different events in November and December. However, on the whole it was very successful. The viewer count on the final was slightly lower than we wanted, but the scheduling issues towards the end were partially responsible for that.
What was the biggest thing that IPL learned from TAC #1?
The diverse opinions about the balance between scheduling matches as close to the air date as possible and leaving enough time to work out problems due to unavoidable delays. The matches weren't played nearly as far in advance as the community perceived, which actually caused some scheduling issues towards the end. I think we've remedied those for TAC2. We've managed to make the matches very recent while leaving in buffer times for other events and emergencies.
On a purely positive note, in a tournament that had many great moments, what was your favorite thing that happened in IPL TAC #1?
Mouz was amazing. Through the tournament they beat SlayerS, coLMVP and Incredible Miracle. They proved that Western teams are just as good as Korean teams. It culminated in ThorZaINs AK of IM in the Grand Final part 1 and was amazing to watch.
Alright, so now we turn to IPL TAC #2. Was there any doubt this was going to happen?
As soon as the finals aired, David Ting said he wanted to immediately start another one. Even though we had another tournament planned (different type) for January and February, we cancelled that to put on TAC2 because it was so popular. I have to say that I love planning tournaments so having wiggle room to make a bigger tournament made me really excited.
Tell us about the decision to expand the field to 16 teams. It's a pretty ambitious move, what led to the larger set-up?
Honestly, there were so many teams that didn't get in last time, both Korean and Western, that we wanted all the best teams in the world we could cram in. If we could have logistically made it bigger, we would have.
How do you feel about the field? With three Korean teams coming in through the qualifiers, it's a little bit like GSTL and IPL TAC #1 combined!
That was the idea. To me, there is a huge misconception that Korean teams are miles ahead of Western teams and it's just not really accurate. I think Mouz showed that Western players are really strong. We included almost all the teams we could have in the invites, and I think we got the best field we could have from the qualifiers as well. The only team I wish we could have had was IM.
Any predictions? ^^
Mouz v NSHoSeo in the final. I think NSHoSeo will win. But I think EG, Empire, Prime and coLMVP will get far.
How does IPL feel about the hybrid teams like coL.MVP and last season's winner QIM? How do you address criticisms that it is 'cheap' or unfair if a foreigner team latches onto a Korean one?
Honestly, it just depends on the situation, but these two teams have basically banded together for the same reasons that players bind themselves to teams. If it makes a superteam so be it. We actually offered oGs and Liquid to partner for this one and they declined. The Startale Quantic partnership was announced before they played their first round match but after the qualifiers started and StarTale has played in the qualifiers so it didn't seem right. And, Startale is going to replace SlayerS in the tournament because they have chosen to withdraw.
IPL TAC #2 is actually the first non-korean scene teamleague that TL will ever have given frontpage coverage to. It casts a wide net, has a serious prize pool, and seems to be taken by all parties as seriously as a teamleague should be. We're hoping it'll become a regular occurrence, any idea how often we can expect to see this event in 2012?
I hope to do one of these in between every IPL live event. I actually have some other tournament ideas that we might run instead, but if the community keeps watching, I'll keep trying to run them.
There's been hints of a possible GSTL live final at IPL4. Without saying too much on that subject, is it possible that we might see a IPL TAC live final in the future?
It's a possibility and it's something we'd love to do.
IPL TAC #2 starts today at 01:00 GMT (+00:00) with Dignitas vs NsHoSeo. How is the tournament going to play out schedule-wise?
5 matches per week, 1 per night. It will run all in a row (except Saturday for Fight Club and Friday for community) until the final on March 1st.
Sounds great, looking forward very much to the games. I guess we're out of questions... Anything else?
I'd personally like to thank IPL for allowing me to have one of the best jobs in the world, and I'd like to thank the community for it's support and it's criticism, for watching our events and for making everything in eSports possible. We love you guys, without you, none of this exists. We'll keep listening as long as you keep talking.
Seems like the predictions were made somewhat in imagination land. I think oGs will pummel EG, especially since JYP is so easily sniped by one of many terrans on oGs. Also, Vile will take 2 games off of FXO? Not even in my wildest imagination will that happen if they use a similar lineup to what they have put up so far in NAST.
I found this article awfully hard to read because of the way the text is aligned. I feel like someone should go and take a couple of lessons in publishing.
Also those predictions are sooo foreigner biased that it made me giggle. =D Besides that, good article
Mouz has been looking very sharp lately, but havent been posting results. Quantic feels like their roster, while expanding, is not built off of pure talent like HasuObs and Thorzain. I feel that first round will go to Quantic, and they might even take a second but when Thorzain comes out, no one on Quantic will be able to crush him and he will destroy their spirits. Unless of course, he does get crushed (in an early game roach rush IMBA prediction). Then Quantic will take this.
<3 Dignitas, dont get me wrong, but NSHoSeo is boss in team league.
JYP is good and all, and EG has been showing some really strong play lately while oGs is slipping, especially after losing boss toss. that being said, oGs has korean team leadership and cohesion, and what EG lacks the most is a stable mental game. oGs will put EG on tilt from the very first game and the rest will waterfall. This will be a 5-0 or 5-1, though in what direction is dependent a lot on the first games.
Sorry liquid, but coL.MvP has DRG :/ Good Luck Hero and Zenio (Though I think the wins will be Hero and TLO)!
TSL has some rigid training. If you follow all of their player's styles, they all have something common, they don't drop games that they shouldn't. Team drama will affect TSL players the least of all the teams, and Alive's ghost will crush.
I dont follow Vile that much, so ignore my prediction here
Zenex has yet to post results in a while. They have some good players, but still..... Startale.... I wonder where the two wins for Zenex will come from, but I think the better way to look at it is who on Startale is going to drop a game.
Prime vs Empire (ever notice how they have the same letters in their name?) I am looking forward to this match most of all. Prime has Creator, Creator is a best. Look at Prime's performance in GSTL so far, and you will see why they win: Creator. Plus, they have a deep roster of players, many capable of sniping. Empire will put up an excellent fight
teamleagues are easily my favorite type of competition, so I love that TL is giving this tournament even more hype with the fornt page article :D Also I never knew the the proleague was the bigger deal in BW, with all the talks of OSL and MSL titles from fans. That makes it even more strange that teamleagues aren't as popular in SC2
I got nerd chills all over ma body. Cant wait for Empire vs Prime and to see Kas own some Koreans and of course to see viOlet prove himself in new team
Thank you Team Liquid for giving this great tournament more hype and exposure. I am so thankful that I am not even going to call you out for putting TL over the GSTL and KSL champion team. Best of luck to Liquid and I hope for a Liquid upset.
But seriously, this is an amazing teamleague with some of the best teams in the world, and I would love to see some foreign teams do well and get upsets.
Vile is the real darkhorse team of this tournament, I would love to see these guys, who surprised many people by not only qualifying but by also beating Zenex convincingly, to do well, maybe even beat FXO. I am probably dreaming, but there seems to be a lot of potential in that roster. Go Vile!
On January 24 2012 07:51 Swagtacular wrote: weird that ogs and liquid aren't together like in gstl
That's just for GSTL.
In foreign events it's too imbalanced. xD
also since this is an online tournament it lets more of liquids players compete. I think only Huk and Jinro were in korea on TL when they were together in the GSTL.
This is going to be amazing! Team leagues are always my favorite, and as someone who joined esports at SCII I guess im in the minority, but I always root for teams rather than players, and then players rather than race. (I feel like too many foreigners choose their favorites by race-->player) Gogo NSHS, and gogo Empire!
On January 24 2012 07:51 dezi wrote: That alignment turned it into quite a long post - kinda hurts the readability. Other than this i'm looking forward to the next teamleague
Yeah, it was definitely a bit of an experiment on my part and I'll certainly have to tweak it if I ever use a similar layout in the future so it doesn't scrunch up on the right side so much. <3
On January 24 2012 07:51 dezi wrote: That alignment turned it into quite a long post - kinda hurts the readability. Other than this i'm looking forward to the next teamleague
Yeah, it was definitely a bit of an experiment on my part and I'll certainly have to tweak it if I ever use a similar layout in the future so it doesn't scrunch up on the right side so much. <3
love experiments, but cutting the width by 50% and black text on dark grey bg was not the best idea imho^^
So, this article predicts than all Korean vs Foreigner matches will end in foreign victory. What's next, cArn defeats MVP 2-0 in next season's code A ? It's not that I don't want it to happen, but seriously...
When the entire bulk of the article is about predicting the outcomes of the matches, I would expect the predictions and associated comments to at least be somewhat believable. Read the BW Proleague write ups and look at the predictions there. They are always very insightful and often correct.
MVP is gonna 5-1 or 5-2 liquid. Haypro, Sheth, Ret, Tyler, Jinro won't win a game. Zenio might win a ZvZ. Hero might do well, but is not playing well at all atm. MVPfinale is probably better than every player on Liquid. As is Keen, DRG, Genius, SC.
Even with TSL's roster being a little weakened and drama abound in the house, I don't see how you could predict them losing 2-5 to ReIGN.
ReIGN is a fantastic team and all, but I think half of TSL's current roster could all-kill them without batting an eye. Inori, while good, is a PvP sniper for the most part, of which TSL only has Dream and Cyrano (You neglected to mention Dream in the write-up by the way).
Terran they have Polt, who could probably sweep ReIGN with one hand, and possibly even Ultimate. Also, Heart has been reported to have not left the team, but only the house and could still possibly be playing for IPL TAC.
Zerg is where they need to be feared the most right now: Symbol recently SMASHED through the Iron Squid Qualifier #1, stepping over Polt and Shine, both teammates, in the Semi-Finals and Finals respectively. Shine also has shown strong play lately, as well as HyuN Qualifying for Code A faster than even fOrGG. RevivaL as well has shown incredible play in the past, and word is that RagnaroK is in the team house as well currently.
Of ReIGN's current roster, I think only Artist and Kiwikaki stand a chance of taking games, and I don't think Artist could compete with any of the TSL Zergs in a macro game. Even if he does, Polt will just take him in a TvT and use his mighty marauders to pummel away at Artist.
Shine and Symbol have top notch ZvZ and SLush shouldn't be a problem for either of them to take out should it come to that.
Kiwikaki would easily fall to Polt's TvP in just about any situation, especially given Polt's recent dismantling of HerO in the NASL Sunday Showmatch.
Other than that, good write-up. I can't wait for the IPL TAC broadcasts!
I see IPL got the "slim" package. I mean, TL's articles aren't that wide already, so cutting it in half makes you look like you want to pretend the article is longer than it really is.
On January 24 2012 08:12 The Final Boss wrote: Liquid vs coL will be decided by when coL chooses to put DRG in. If they put him in first: 5-0. If they put him in fifth, 5-4.
Bottom line: DRG > Liquid
Plus KeeN, Genius, Noblesse, TaiLs will also be more than enough to beat Liquid, I like Liquid, but they're not going to win.
coL.MVP is annoying as hell if they arent going to use a single coL player they might as well join as MVP.
On January 24 2012 08:23 devPLEASE wrote: Global team leagues are so exciting. The only way this would be better is if it was offline with ceremonies and shit
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
Your predictions are worse some of em are very outdated and dont recognize recent transfers.
I find it funny that you think Quantic will beat Mouz. Even with Nani and Sase, it's entirely possible they get all killed. Empire is also incredably strong, but I don't want to put too much hope on them. If Prime plays a zerg player, I could see that giving them the most trouble, however Kas is favored against most of the players on that list.
On January 24 2012 08:11 VirgilSC2 wrote: Even with TSL's roster being a little weakened and drama abound in the house, I don't see how you could predict them losing 2-5 to ReIGN.
ReIGN is a fantastic team and all, but I think half of TSL's current roster could all-kill them without batting an eye. Inori, while good, is a PvP sniper for the most part, of which TSL only has Dream and Cyrano (You neglected to mention Dream in the write-up by the way).
Terran they have Polt, who could probably sweep ReIGN with one hand, and possibly even Ultimate. Also, Heart has been reported to have not left the team, but only the house and could still possibly be playing for IPL TAC.
Zerg is where they need to be feared the most right now: Symbol recently SMASHED through the Iron Squid Qualifier #1, stepping over Polt and Shine, both teammates, in the Semi-Finals and Finals respectively. Shine also has shown strong play lately, as well as HyuN Qualifying for Code A faster than even fOrGG. RevivaL as well has shown incredible play in the past, and word is that RagnaroK is in the team house as well currently.
Of ReIGN's current roster, I think only Artist and Kiwikaki stand a chance of taking games, and I don't think Artist could compete with any of the TSL Zergs in a macro game. Even if he does, Polt will just take him in a TvT and use his mighty marauders to pummel away at Artist.
Shine and Symbol have top notch ZvZ and SLush shouldn't be a problem for either of them to take out should it come to that.
Kiwikaki would easily fall to Polt's TvP in just about any situation, especially given Polt's recent dismantling of HerO in the NASL Sunday Showmatch. do you work for TSL with all the threads and posts you make defending them saying how good they are lol Other than that, good write-up. I can't wait for the IPL TAC broadcasts!
On January 24 2012 07:42 Xcobidoo wrote: Seems like the predictions were made somewhat in imagination land.
I agree. Really disappointed at this article. The TL staff (excluding waxangel, who's on the contrary the best journalist in the sc2 scene) needs to step it up!
Some very biased and bizzare predictions. MVP are the GSTL holders. They should beat Liquid easilly and TSL is still way better than Reign in any state. Prime will beat Empire and Vile will likely get all killed.
Well, the predictions are debatable, but thats OK. It has become one hell of a text again. Kudos for that. There is actually just one thing I really disagree with.
Why the hell do you separate Hasu from Tzain, Mana and Morrow? I admit that he is in a minor slump right now, but that doesn´t change the fact that he is an absolute beast in team events. He always was (back in WC3, too) He alone carried the team on more than one occasion (a good example is the match in the EG cup VI vs. ItsGosu) and he also was the last man standing against Slayers (the victory you praised the team for).
Calling him a reserve player for the aces doesn´t give him enough credit, because he himself is a potential ace. He has proven that. The organisation itself speaks of the four mentioned as the A-Roster. Throw in the impressive back-up player biGs and the promising talent Marine and you have the solid foundation that makes Mouz so fearsome.
This is going to be such an awesome league. We are finally going to have a blend of Korean teams and foreign teams. These are the kind of tournaments we are going to need if we wish to successfully mix the foreign scene with the Korean scene, something that was sorely lacking in BW.
Lol Old generations losing to team liquid. That's pretty funny. I honestly hope it happens but lets be serious, Zenio and hero can only carry your team so far. If Team liquid takes 2 games, I'll be happy!
You take those predictions to seriously guys. Those are more some kind of wishes of the writer (but not completely out of place though). I like the positiv attitude, the western scene will get their butts kicked soon and often enough.
Hmmm, surprised by the Reign vs. TSL predictions. I might agree with the logic, but after watching the Hero vs. Polt showmatch and just how damn good Symbol is in the iron squid qualifier... welll.... yea.
I have to agree here, team leagues have a certain sense of dynamic appeal that makes them interesting to watch in a different way than solo tournaments.
Now, now people, let's not start a riot over the predictions. Sure, many of them are very unlikely, but they are just the opinions of one man. That being said, I would love to see some foreign teams be able to hold their own against the Koreans.
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
oke you are right some of the predictions are really weird but! i dont see ogs beat eg 1-5 its gonna be closer mousesports wont lose to quantic and prime will rofl stomp empire 5-0 or 5-1
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
oke you are right some of the predictions are really weird but! i dont see ogs beat eg 1-5 its gonna be closer mousesports wont lose to quantic and prime will rofl stomp empire 5-0 or 5-1
Have you seen Empire's lineup? In my opinion it would be quite shocking if Empire lost 5-0 or 5-1.
Much bigger fan of TAC than NASTL. Winner's league is just much more fun to watch, it allows you to track total wins of top players and get the chance to see an all-kill. I also enjoy the BO9 format
Well the predictions are predictions, and could be right (now I'm never ever surprised by what can happend in a teamleague). But clearly, lags aside, prime >> empire I think even with violet. It's just on average not the same class of players : bbongbbong, creator, MKP, byun, those 4 could easily (read "it would not be surprising") all-kill empire.
And for the 5-2 for reign agaisnt TSL, I would not bet on this. TSL has lost FD,Tester and PuMa before the GSLT but still lokked strong. So I think thye can deal with the lost of YP, Alive, clide and killer .
These predictions are just terrible... EG beating oGs? very small chance. Liquid beating MvP? Absolutely puny chance. Reign beating TSL? I will give you 100$ if this happens, even more if it is 5-2 or more. Empire beating Prime? .0000001 % chance.
I know this is a foreign website and all... but can we at least keep the predictions reasonable? I would actually be very surprised is any of the foreign teams beat any of the korean teams. Especially Reign beating TSL. Polt could probably all-kill Reign easily, although they will probably save him for more worthy teams. Step it up writing staff.
It will probably less close if NaNiwa doesn't play, I'm not sure if he didn't play in NASTL because of scheduling conflicts or because he's NaNi and chooses not to; let's hope for ThorZaIN vs NaNiwa rematch ^^
The only person on Dignitas who possibly stands a fighting chance against Jjakji is SeleCT, but even then his chance is pretty slim. I think as soon as HoSeo sends out Jjakji it will be over, but I think that they'll probably send out other players first (Sculp, Sage, Seal, Shuttle, etc.). Even without Jjakji I just don't think that even the best Dignitas line-up stands much of a chance against HoSeo. I think that the actual score will come down a lot to who gets sent out first and at what time HoSeo starts putting their big guns out. Regardless, HoSeo 5-1 just because they're a more solid team than Dignitas.
fOrGG might not have been quite what he was originally hyped up to be, but he's still really fricking good. Plus you've got SuperNoVa, NaDa, TheStC and TOP? And out of all of those Terrans, TOP is the weakest, which is saying something because he was a GSL finalist not too long ago and his finals against Mvp could have easily ended in a different fashion were he to have made just a few different decisions. But anyways, JYP's PvT is pretty awful the last I saw of it, and HuK's isn't nearly as good as the OP is hyping it up to be. EG is going to need IdrA and PuMa to come in clutch, but I can't imagine that they'll do what EG really needs out of them.
The actual score of this is going to come down to whether coL actually plays anybody. Once Genius goes out, Liquid will probably have to play Zenio as he's the only player capable of stopping Genius. Then, if Zenio loses, then MvP could probably field either sC, KeeN or Noblesse and really abuse Zenio's weak vT. Once Zenio's out I don't think that Liquid stands much of a chance against DRG, and MvP will win. Regardless, I think that Genius/DRG will be too much for Liquid, but if CatZ or qxc go out, Liquid should be able to beat them. 5-0/5-1 if only MvP plays, but assuming that a few coL players go out, 5-2 seems the safe bet.
TSL has a deeper line-up than ReIGN. Inori and Artist are both really skilled (especially Artist's TvZ, holy shit), but the rest of ReIGN isn't at the level that TSL is putting up. With aLive I don't think this would be nearly as close, but ReIGN is still going to have to go through Polt, HyuN, Symbol, RevivaL, and Cyrano. I haven't seen Cyrano at all, but those other four players all are really skilled. I think the key will be for Polt or Cyrano to beat Artist, because I'm not sure if any of the TSL Zergs (or any Zergs for that matter other than the elite three NesTea, DRG, or Leenock) really can feel comfortable against a player of Artist's caliber. If they can get rid of Artist and get Polt matched up against Inori, I think that TSL has a great chance of winning this, but regardless it will be a close match that I really look forward to! ^^
First all-kill of the tournament. Vile's good, but against Leenock, Lucky, asd, GuMiho, and Oz they don't stand much of a chance. FXO has the capability to field five players who would be the "fifth man" on any non-Korean team in this tournament. If they actually field those five players, I'm not sure that anybody has the ability to stop them.
ZeNEX may be Korean, but their line-up isn't at the same caliber as any of the other Korean teams. StarTale, on the other hand, has a good shot at taking the whole tournament. Bomber, PartinG, RainBOw, AcE, and Curious have the potential to absolutely destroy a team like ZeNEX. As a big RainBOw fan I hope that he gets played a lot this tournament as he's a skilled player to watch who does really interesting builds. As for ZeNEX, Life definitely has the potential to take some games off really good players. But beyond Life and Line, I'm not sure that ZeNEX will win games. If StarTale starts out with PartinG, Bomber, or Curious we could see an all-kill, but I doubt it.
On a kind of unrelated note, can you just imagine how gosu of a team ZeNEX would be if they hadn't lost all their best players? CoCa, Taeja, Byun, Genius, and Puzzle. That could easily be a tournament winning team, with half those players in Code S (I'm counting CoCa as .5 because he would be in Code S if he hadn't screwed up big time).
After EG vs oGs, this is the match-up I am most excited for. Empire is the only foreign team with a really solid Terran line-up, and as a Terran player that makes me love to watch them. Plus, since they just got viOLet, their team just became even stronger. Beastyqt, Happy, and Aristeo all could win a game, but I doubt that they'll factor too much into the actual outcome. At the end of the day, it's going to be Kas and viOLet fighting the GSTL semi-finalist team; Kas needs to take out MarineKing before MKP gets a shot at viOLet, but viOLet should be able to deal with Prime's number one team league player, Creator. viOLet's ZvP is remarkable, and I definitely think that his ZvP combined with Kas will help Team Empire barely squeeze out a win. Regardless, this is going to be a great match.
On January 24 2012 10:06 kofman wrote: These predictions are just terrible... EG beating oGs? very small chance. Liquid beating MvP? Absolutely puny chance. Reign beating TSL? I will give you 100$ if this happens, even more if it is 5-2 or more. Empire beating Prime? .0000001 % chance.
I know this is a foreign website and all... but can we at least keep the predictions reasonable? I would actually be very surprised is any of the foreign teams beat any of the korean teams. Especially Reign beating TSL. Polt could probably all-kill Reign easily, although they will probably save him for more worthy teams. Step it up writing staff.
The Liquid one certainly is absurd unless coL.MvP forgets that they're really just MvP and play CatZ instead of DRG.
The EG one isn't completely unheard of, but Deezl has the wrong idea of who's going to have to pull through for them. PuMa is the key player in that match; his vT is ridiculously good, and he definitely stands a chance. I'm just not sure.that any of these guys stand a chance against SuperNoVa, NaDa, or fOrGG. Those three may actually be too good for EG.
ReIGN beating TSL would be the least surprising of those predictions. TSL's line-up is 3 Zergs out of five players, and it just so happens that Artist has some of the best TvZ in the world. Not outside of Korea, that's including Korea. Artist may not be as good as MMA, SuperNoVa, or Mvp, but he's still an unstoppable force if his opponent is Zerg. Artist has a 76.19% win rate in the match-up with over 60 games played. Even though I really like TSL, dealing with Artist is going to be a huge problem. I have no idea how good Cyrano is, so it looks like beating Artist is going to be up to Polt. Artist actually is capable of beating RevivaL, Symbol, and HyuN, and while I hate to say it, the French Canadians always have a chance at taking a game or two off the Koreans. KiWi's crazy builds may actually allow him to beat one of those Zergs or take out Cyrano. I still think that TSL will win, but with Inori and Artist, a ReIGN victory is far from unthinkable.
Empire has one of the best foreigner line-ups if not the best. Plus, with viOLet filling a much needed non-Terran role, they could beat Prime. They just need to get viOLet matched up against Creator and Kas against MKP and they certainly stand a chance. MKP's role is going to be to take out viOLet, as his TvT is not that good and I think Happy or Kas definitely can beat him (especially in a Bo1 setting).
It will probably less close if NaNiwa doesn't play, I'm not sure if he didn't play in NASTL because of scheduling conflicts or because he's NaNi and chooses not to; let's hope for ThorZaIN vs NaNiwa rematch ^^
The only person on Dignitas who possibly stands a fighting chance against Jjakji is SeleCT, but even then his chance is pretty slim. I think as soon as HoSeo sends out Jjakji it will be over, but I think that they'll probably send out other players first (Sculp, Sage, Seal, Shuttle, etc.). Even without Jjakji I just don't think that even the best Dignitas line-up stands much of a chance against HoSeo. I think that the actual score will come down a lot to who gets sent out first and at what time HoSeo starts putting their big guns out. Regardless, HoSeo 5-1 just because they're a more solid team than Dignitas.
fOrGG might not have been quite what he was originally hyped up to be, but he's still really fricking good. Plus you've got SuperNoVa, NaDa, TheStC and TOP? And out of all of those Terrans, TOP is the weakest, which is saying something because he was a GSL finalist not too long ago and his finals against Mvp could have easily ended in a different fashion were he to have made just a few different decisions. But anyways, JYP's PvT is pretty awful the last I saw of it, and HuK's isn't nearly as good as the OP is hyping it up to be. EG is going to need IdrA and PuMa to come in clutch, but I can't imagine that they'll do what EG really needs out of them.
The actual score of this is going to come down to whether coL actually plays anybody. Once Genius goes out, Liquid will probably have to play Zenio as he's the only player capable of stopping Genius. Then, if Zenio loses, then MvP could probably field either sC, KeeN or Noblesse and really abuse Zenio's weak vT. Once Zenio's out I don't think that Liquid stands much of a chance against DRG, and MvP will win. Regardless, I think that Genius/DRG will be too much for Liquid, but if CatZ or qxc go out, Liquid should be able to beat them. 5-0/5-1 if only MvP plays, but assuming that a few coL players go out, 5-2 seems the safe bet.
TSL has a deeper line-up than ReIGN. Inori and Artist are both really skilled (especially Artist's TvZ, holy shit), but the rest of ReIGN isn't at the level that TSL is putting up. With aLive I don't think this would be nearly as close, but ReIGN is still going to have to go through Polt, HyuN, Symbol, RevivaL, and Cyrano. I haven't seen Cyrano at all, but those other four players all are really skilled. I think the key will be for Polt or Cyrano to beat Artist, because I'm not sure if any of the TSL Zergs (or any Zergs for that matter other than the elite three NesTea, DRG, or Leenock) really can feel comfortable against a player of Artist's caliber. If they can get rid of Artist and get Polt matched up against Inori, I think that TSL has a great chance of winning this, but regardless it will be a close match that I really look forward to! ^^
First all-kill of the tournament. Vile's good, but against Leenock, Lucky, asd, GuMiho, and Oz they don't stand much of a chance. FXO has the capability to field five players who would be the "fifth man" on any non-Korean team in this tournament. If they actually field those five players, I'm not sure that anybody has the ability to stop them.
ZeNEX may be Korean, but their line-up isn't at the same caliber as any of the other Korean teams. StarTale, on the other hand, has a good shot at taking the whole tournament. Bomber, PartinG, RainBOw, AcE, and Curious have the potential to absolutely destroy a team like ZeNEX. As a big RainBOw fan I hope that he gets played a lot this tournament as he's a skilled player to watch who does really interesting builds. As for ZeNEX, Life definitely has the potential to take some games off really good players. But beyond Life and Line, I'm not sure that ZeNEX will win games. If StarTale starts out with PartinG, Bomber, or Curious we could see an all-kill, but I doubt it.
On a kind of unrelated note, can you just imagine how gosu of a team ZeNEX would be if they hadn't lost all their best players? CoCa, Taeja, Byun, Genius, and Puzzle. That could easily be a tournament winning team, with half those players in Code S (I'm counting CoCa as .5 because he would be in Code S if he hadn't screwed up big time).
After EG vs oGs, this is the match-up I am most excited for. Empire is the only foreign team with a really solid Terran line-up, and as a Terran player that makes me love to watch them. Plus, since they just got viOLet, their team just became even stronger. Beastyqt, Happy, and Aristeo all could win a game, but I doubt that they'll factor too much into the actual outcome. At the end of the day, it's going to be Kas and viOLet fighting the GSTL semi-finalist team; Kas needs to take out MarineKing before MKP gets a shot at viOLet, but viOLet should be able to deal with Prime's number one team league player, Creator. viOLet's ZvP is remarkable, and I definitely think that his ZvP combined with Kas will help Team Empire barely squeeze out a win. Regardless, this is going to be a great match.
Just wanted to let you know that Prime were last GSTL's runner-ups, not semi-finalists; and I don't think Kas stands as much of a chance against MKP as you give him + Show Spoiler +
considering how MKP just demolished his Code S ro32 group 4-0
It will probably less close if NaNiwa doesn't play, I'm not sure if he didn't play in NASTL because of scheduling conflicts or because he's NaNi and chooses not to; let's hope for ThorZaIN vs NaNiwa rematch ^^
The only person on Dignitas who possibly stands a fighting chance against Jjakji is SeleCT, but even then his chance is pretty slim. I think as soon as HoSeo sends out Jjakji it will be over, but I think that they'll probably send out other players first (Sculp, Sage, Seal, Shuttle, etc.). Even without Jjakji I just don't think that even the best Dignitas line-up stands much of a chance against HoSeo. I think that the actual score will come down a lot to who gets sent out first and at what time HoSeo starts putting their big guns out. Regardless, HoSeo 5-1 just because they're a more solid team than Dignitas.
fOrGG might not have been quite what he was originally hyped up to be, but he's still really fricking good. Plus you've got SuperNoVa, NaDa, TheStC and TOP? And out of all of those Terrans, TOP is the weakest, which is saying something because he was a GSL finalist not too long ago and his finals against Mvp could have easily ended in a different fashion were he to have made just a few different decisions. But anyways, JYP's PvT is pretty awful the last I saw of it, and HuK's isn't nearly as good as the OP is hyping it up to be. EG is going to need IdrA and PuMa to come in clutch, but I can't imagine that they'll do what EG really needs out of them.
The actual score of this is going to come down to whether coL actually plays anybody. Once Genius goes out, Liquid will probably have to play Zenio as he's the only player capable of stopping Genius. Then, if Zenio loses, then MvP could probably field either sC, KeeN or Noblesse and really abuse Zenio's weak vT. Once Zenio's out I don't think that Liquid stands much of a chance against DRG, and MvP will win. Regardless, I think that Genius/DRG will be too much for Liquid, but if CatZ or qxc go out, Liquid should be able to beat them. 5-0/5-1 if only MvP plays, but assuming that a few coL players go out, 5-2 seems the safe bet.
TSL has a deeper line-up than ReIGN. Inori and Artist are both really skilled (especially Artist's TvZ, holy shit), but the rest of ReIGN isn't at the level that TSL is putting up. With aLive I don't think this would be nearly as close, but ReIGN is still going to have to go through Polt, HyuN, Symbol, RevivaL, and Cyrano. I haven't seen Cyrano at all, but those other four players all are really skilled. I think the key will be for Polt or Cyrano to beat Artist, because I'm not sure if any of the TSL Zergs (or any Zergs for that matter other than the elite three NesTea, DRG, or Leenock) really can feel comfortable against a player of Artist's caliber. If they can get rid of Artist and get Polt matched up against Inori, I think that TSL has a great chance of winning this, but regardless it will be a close match that I really look forward to! ^^
First all-kill of the tournament. Vile's good, but against Leenock, Lucky, asd, GuMiho, and Oz they don't stand much of a chance. FXO has the capability to field five players who would be the "fifth man" on any non-Korean team in this tournament. If they actually field those five players, I'm not sure that anybody has the ability to stop them.
ZeNEX may be Korean, but their line-up isn't at the same caliber as any of the other Korean teams. StarTale, on the other hand, has a good shot at taking the whole tournament. Bomber, PartinG, RainBOw, AcE, and Curious have the potential to absolutely destroy a team like ZeNEX. As a big RainBOw fan I hope that he gets played a lot this tournament as he's a skilled player to watch who does really interesting builds. As for ZeNEX, Life definitely has the potential to take some games off really good players. But beyond Life and Line, I'm not sure that ZeNEX will win games. If StarTale starts out with PartinG, Bomber, or Curious we could see an all-kill, but I doubt it.
On a kind of unrelated note, can you just imagine how gosu of a team ZeNEX would be if they hadn't lost all their best players? CoCa, Taeja, Byun, Genius, and Puzzle. That could easily be a tournament winning team, with half those players in Code S (I'm counting CoCa as .5 because he would be in Code S if he hadn't screwed up big time).
After EG vs oGs, this is the match-up I am most excited for. Empire is the only foreign team with a really solid Terran line-up, and as a Terran player that makes me love to watch them. Plus, since they just got viOLet, their team just became even stronger. Beastyqt, Happy, and Aristeo all could win a game, but I doubt that they'll factor too much into the actual outcome. At the end of the day, it's going to be Kas and viOLet fighting the GSTL semi-finalist team; Kas needs to take out MarineKing before MKP gets a shot at viOLet, but viOLet should be able to deal with Prime's number one team league player, Creator. viOLet's ZvP is remarkable, and I definitely think that his ZvP combined with Kas will help Team Empire barely squeeze out a win. Regardless, this is going to be a great match.
Just wanted to let you know that Prime were last GSTL's runner-ups, not semi-finalists; and I don't think Kas stands as much of a chance against MKP as you give him + Show Spoiler +
considering how MKP just demolished his Code S ro32 group 4-0
For whatever reason I meant finalist but typed the wrong thing ^^; so stoopid....
And Kas beat MarineKing at WCG. He definitely stands a chance especially since MarineKing is the most inconsistent player. Ever. One day he'll demolish the best Koreans and then the next he'll be losing to foreigners. Especially when we're talking about a Bo1 in what I think is his worst match-up, there is a definite chance that Kas could beat him.
EDIT: also Kas is better against the style of TvT that MarineKing plays. I'd say that with Korean Terrans, there are two ends of the TvT spectrum: you have Mvp, who plays more mech oriented, high macro style, and then you have Polt's super aggressive bio. While Kas lost to Mvp 0-2 at WCG, check out his statistics against the Polt: + Show Spoiler +
. MKP generally plays a style a lot more like Polt's, so while I would pick Happy or SuperNoVa over Kas any day, I think that MKP's aggro style won't cut it against Kas (at least not in a reliable manner).
I love team leagues. Always been a huge fan of them, I still remember the wait for the next WC3l match all those years ago! I'd also like a similiar format, a league and then offline finals. Hope that atleast the latter will happen, if not this season then atleast the next.
Edit: Rather than reading the following you might as well read Final Boss' predictions above. They're well worded and make sense... Though I stand by the following predictions:
Mousesports 5-2 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-2 Dignitas EG 5-4 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid TSL 2-5 ReIGN FXO 5-1 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-4 Empire
The reasons for these for the most part are below:
On January 24 2012 07:51 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: Some of the worst predictions I have seen from a writer in a while
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
I agree with you on some parts but you are DEAD WRONG on a few of them. Most notably TSL vs ReIGN.
Strait up, ReIGN is going to MOP THE FLOOR with TSL. Well.. ok maybe not "Mop the floor" ReIGN will win pretty damn convincingly. There are two reasons for this:
1. TSL is in complete turmoil. Their coach seems more keen on griefmongering than coaching, and there's no way he can know the strengths and weaknesses of his perpetually shifting roster.
2. ReIGN is really REALLY good. Their whole team is kind of based completely around THIS team league. This is THE event that they focus on and they take it very seriously. They live in a pretty strict team house, and have a complete understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. If you want me to name specifics, no protoss on TSL will even come close to beating Inori. That dude is a PvP machine, that's what he was heralded as and he's proven it beating oGsMC and HuK (I think? Might've been Hero) at IPL3 as well as numerous PvP victories last season. So they can beat P, and Artist can easily beat any Zerg, that just leaves Polt. Polt might take a game or two off of ReIGN, but I don't think he can all kill them which is what he'll need to do.
The closest this match will be is 5-3 ReIGN.
Can't disagree with you on Col.MVP vs Liquid... Never bet against a team that includes DRG in a teamleague match.
Mouz losing to quantic? I find your abundance of faith in Naniwa disturbing... Sase too I guess, but Mana can certainly beat Sase... In fact, I really don't see where your prediction here comes from, please explain because I just strait up don't understand it. I think you just might not know anything about Mouz... the Silver Medalists from last season.
I agree that Prime will beat Empire but having watched with great anticipation all of MKPs matches, and agreeing that his TvT is not as bad as some people claim, I'm pretty certain Kas will beat him, the dude's a great player and a TvT monster. And then they've got violet... This one will be AT LEAST 5-3 Prime.
Lol and your most ridiculous opinion of all is this: EG 1-5 oGs.
I mean COME ON! God I want to flame you so bad right now but instead I'll just tell you why you're wrong:
HuK JYP Puma
all three have proven themselves BIG TIME. HuK is, the second most consistent protoss in the world. He's been in the GSL for OVER A YEAR. No other protoss can say the same, even MC dropped out briefly (though he's still the most consistent protoss). But guess what? MC ISN'T HERE!
JYP is no slouch either man, and Puma has beaten plenty of top players before, Korean and foreigner alike. One of the best things is that if HuK can be said to have a weak matchup it's still PvP. So lets say a toss takes him out? Puma will DESTROY him.
On a tier just below those three is IdrA. You can bet he is PRACTICING hard now to stay in Code A at the very least. He can pull out wins, but EG can't rely on him.
So that's four pretty top notch players. If you're going to WIN a Bo5 Teamleague match, that's how many you need, sure a fifth would be nice, but four of this caliber can easily go the distance.
I'll let the results speak for themselves but I can't BELIEVE you think 1-5 oGs. It's going to be 5-4 I'm pretty sure, one way or the other.
Strait up, ReIGN is going to MOP THE FLOOR with TSL. There are two reasons for this:
1. TSL is in complete turmoil. Their coach seems more keen on griefmongering than coaching, and there's no way he can know the strengths and weaknesses of his perpetually shifting roster.
2. ReIGN is really REALLY good. Their whole team is kind of based completely around THIS team league. This is THE event that they focus on and they take it very seriously. They live in a pretty strict team house, and have a complete understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. If you want me to name specifics, no protoss on TSL will even come close to beating Inori. That dude is a PvP machine, that's what he was heralded as and he's proven it beating oGsMC and HuK (I think? Might've been Hero) at IPL3 as well as numerous PvP victories last season.
The closest this match will be is 5-3 ReIGN.
Luckily (or unluckily) for TSL they only have one protoss, and Cyrano will probably not be played near the end of the series. Symbol, Polt, and Revival are more than good enough to take out Inori. Reign will need to rely on Artist as their anchor.
On January 24 2012 11:29 TheDougler wrote: Edit: Rather than reading the following you might as well read Final Boss' predictions above. They're well worded and make sense... Though I stand by the following predictions:
Mousesports 5-2 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-2 Dignitas EG 5-4 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid TSL 2-5 ReIGN FXO 5-1 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-4 Empire
The reasons for these for the most part are below:
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
I agree with you on some parts but you are DEAD WRONG on a few of them. Most notably TSL vs ReIGN.
Strait up, ReIGN is going to MOP THE FLOOR with TSL. Well.. ok maybe not "Mop the floor" ReIGN will win pretty damn convincingly. There are two reasons for this:
1. TSL is in complete turmoil. Their coach seems more keen on griefmongering than coaching, and there's no way he can know the strengths and weaknesses of his perpetually shifting roster.
2. ReIGN is really REALLY good. Their whole team is kind of based completely around THIS team league. This is THE event that they focus on and they take it very seriously. They live in a pretty strict team house, and have a complete understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. If you want me to name specifics, no protoss on TSL will even come close to beating Inori. That dude is a PvP machine, that's what he was heralded as and he's proven it beating oGsMC and HuK (I think? Might've been Hero) at IPL3 as well as numerous PvP victories last season. So they can beat P, and Artist can easily beat any Zerg, that just leaves Polt. Polt might take a game or two off of ReIGN, but I don't think he can all kill them which is what he'll need to do.
The closest this match will be is 5-3 ReIGN.
Can't disagree with you on Col.MVP vs Liquid... Never bet against a team that includes DRG in a teamleague match.
Mouz losing to quantic? I find your abundance of faith in Naniwa disturbing... Sase too I guess, but Mana can certainly beat Sase... In fact, I really don't see where your prediction here comes from, please explain because I just strait up don't understand it. I think you just might not know anything about Mouz... the Silver Medalists from last season.
I agree that Prime will beat Empire but having watched with great anticipation all of MKPs matches, and agreeing that his TvT is not as bad as some people claim, I'm pretty certain Kas will beat him, the dude's a great player and a TvT monster. And then they've got violet... This one will be AT LEAST 5-3 Prime.
Lol and your most ridiculous opinion of all is this: EG 1-5 oGs.
I mean COME ON! God I want to flame you so bad right now but instead I'll just tell you why you're wrong:
HuK JYP Puma
all three have proven themselves BIG TIME. HuK is, the second most consistent protoss in the world. He's been in the GSL for OVER A YEAR. No other protoss can say the same, even MC dropped out briefly (though he's still the most consistent protoss). But guess what? MC ISN'T HERE!
JYP is no slouch either man, and Puma has beaten plenty of top players before, Korean and foreigner alike. One of the best things is that if HuK can be said to have a weak matchup it's still PvP. So lets say a toss takes him out? Puma will DESTROY him.
On a tier just below those three is IdrA. You can bet he is PRACTICING hard now to stay in Code A at the very least. He can pull out wins, but EG can't rely on him.
So that's four pretty top notch players. If you're going to WIN a Bo5 Teamleague match, that's how many you need, sure a fifth would be nice, but four of this caliber can easily go the distance.
I'll let the results speak for themselves but I can't BELIEVE you think 1-5 oGs. It's going to be 5-4 I'm pretty sure, one way or the other.
Who cares if Inori is good against Protoss? TSL only has 1 toss so it doesn't matter. No one on reign is good enough to beat polt or revival.
EG - oGs will be really exciting. oGs without MC just doesn't seem as scary for some reason. Regardless I think oGs will take this. Go Supernova all-kill!!
On January 24 2012 11:29 TheDougler wrote: Edit: Rather than reading the following you might as well read Final Boss' predictions above. They're well worded and make sense... Though I stand by the following predictions:
Mousesports 5-2 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-2 Dignitas EG 5-4 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid TSL 2-5 ReIGN FXO 5-1 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-4 Empire
The reasons for these for the most part are below:
On January 24 2012 07:51 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: Some of the worst predictions I have seen from a writer in a while
Mousesports 5-3 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-3 Dignitas EG 5-4 oGs coL.MvP 4-5 Liquid` TSL 2-5 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 3-5 Empire
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
I agree with you on some parts but you are DEAD WRONG on a few of them. Most notably TSL vs ReIGN.
Strait up, ReIGN is going to MOP THE FLOOR with TSL. Well.. ok maybe not "Mop the floor" ReIGN will win pretty damn convincingly. There are two reasons for this:
1. TSL is in complete turmoil. Their coach seems more keen on griefmongering than coaching, and there's no way he can know the strengths and weaknesses of his perpetually shifting roster.
2. ReIGN is really REALLY good. Their whole team is kind of based completely around THIS team league. This is THE event that they focus on and they take it very seriously. They live in a pretty strict team house, and have a complete understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. If you want me to name specifics, no protoss on TSL will even come close to beating Inori. That dude is a PvP machine, that's what he was heralded as and he's proven it beating oGsMC and HuK (I think? Might've been Hero) at IPL3 as well as numerous PvP victories last season. So they can beat P, and Artist can easily beat any Zerg, that just leaves Polt. Polt might take a game or two off of ReIGN, but I don't think he can all kill them which is what he'll need to do.
The closest this match will be is 5-3 ReIGN.
Can't disagree with you on Col.MVP vs Liquid... Never bet against a team that includes DRG in a teamleague match.
Mouz losing to quantic? I find your abundance of faith in Naniwa disturbing... Sase too I guess, but Mana can certainly beat Sase... In fact, I really don't see where your prediction here comes from, please explain because I just strait up don't understand it. I think you just might not know anything about Mouz... the Silver Medalists from last season.
I agree that Prime will beat Empire but having watched with great anticipation all of MKPs matches, and agreeing that his TvT is not as bad as some people claim, I'm pretty certain Kas will beat him, the dude's a great player and a TvT monster. And then they've got violet... This one will be AT LEAST 5-3 Prime.
Lol and your most ridiculous opinion of all is this: EG 1-5 oGs.
I mean COME ON! God I want to flame you so bad right now but instead I'll just tell you why you're wrong:
HuK JYP Puma
all three have proven themselves BIG TIME. HuK is, the second most consistent protoss in the world. He's been in the GSL for OVER A YEAR. No other protoss can say the same, even MC dropped out briefly (though he's still the most consistent protoss). But guess what? MC ISN'T HERE!
JYP is no slouch either man, and Puma has beaten plenty of top players before, Korean and foreigner alike. One of the best things is that if HuK can be said to have a weak matchup it's still PvP. So lets say a toss takes him out? Puma will DESTROY him.
On a tier just below those three is IdrA. You can bet he is PRACTICING hard now to stay in Code A at the very least. He can pull out wins, but EG can't rely on him.
So that's four pretty top notch players. If you're going to WIN a Bo5 Teamleague match, that's how many you need, sure a fifth would be nice, but four of this caliber can easily go the distance.
I'll let the results speak for themselves but I can't BELIEVE you think 1-5 oGs. It's going to be 5-4 I'm pretty sure, one way or the other.
Who cares if Inori is good against Protoss? TSL only has 1 toss so it doesn't matter. No one on reign is good enough to beat polt or revival.
There's this guy named Artist who's really good. And you never know with somebody like KiWiKaKi in a Bo1 format. He beat GuMiho the other day. Both of them stand a chance at taking down Polt, and Artist definitely can beat RevivaL.
I totally tuned in at the right time...Got to watch Select manhandle NSHS hehe. Can't wait to see Reign and Vile prove themselves. And hopefully the start of a strong liquid showing. <3
Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
OMW things just got real. Also just saw results from Dignitas and was interesting.
Agree with WhatsOn. I dont think TL can take on MVP. MVP has way too much power flowing through it at the omoment, they might have a good chance for an upset but the edge should go to MVP who have more Code S players atm which is no easy feat.
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
If I read one more post like this, I'm going to jump Wax, I'm gonna do it.
On January 24 2012 12:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: The fact that you think Artist can handle Symbol and Polt is laughable to me.
In his last 40 TvZ's he's lost 4 games. And the people he's played against includes DIMAGA, Lucky, sLivko and Sheth. Lucky's ZvT is better than Symbol's and any of the other ZvTs on TSL for that matter.
The fact that you can somehow blow that off as not being a big deal is laughable to me.
And Polt is pretty inconsistent in TvT. His style is pretty cheesy so I think that Artist definitely could beat him. I'd still favor Polt in that match-up, but I wouldn't say that there is no way that Artist could handle Polt.
EDIT: Also RevivaL only has 6 first place finishes in Playhem Daily, where as Artist has 15... just sayin' ^^
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
Your predictions are worse some of em are very outdated and dont recognize recent transfers.
I find it funny that you think Quantic will beat Mouz. Even with Nani and Sase, it's entirely possible they get all killed. Empire is also incredably strong, but I don't want to put too much hope on them. If Prime plays a zerg player, I could see that giving them the most trouble, however Kas is favored against most of the players on that list.
Where did you see me say that? I think Mouz>Quantic (once they snipe nAni + SaSe its over) , and Empire>Prime (Kas is in great shape i see him beating at least 3 players)
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions in GSL a 1 or 2 seasons ago and then had to eat humble pie?? Feel free to do that if Deezl (who wrote them) is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions last season and then got smashed for it publicly? Feel free to do that if TH is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
When did I ever make bad predictions? I'm kinda awesome.
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions last season and then got smashed for it publicly? Feel free to do that if TH is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
Zenio can definitely beat DRG and Genius, but the MvP Terrans will prove too much of a problem for him.
On January 24 2012 13:30 The Final Boss wrote: Zenio can definitely beat DRG and Genius, but the MvP Terrans will prove too much of a problem for him.
Also, TH didn't write that prediction ^^
No man, Zenio has little chance against DRG. The most recent team event was KSL MVP vs Startale and DRG literally wiped the floor with the entire startale team. He kicked Curious's butt so hard... and Curious's Zvz is no slouch not to mention Curious is miles above Zenio in terms of ELO
The only person I can see taking out DRG is Hero... poor Hero is slightly inconsistent though...
On January 24 2012 13:30 The Final Boss wrote: Zenio can definitely beat DRG and Genius, but the MvP Terrans will prove too much of a problem for him.
Also, TH didn't write that prediction ^^
No man, Zenio has little chance against DRG. The most recent team event was KSL MVP vs Startale and DRG literally wiped the floor with the entire startale team. He kicked Curious's butt so hard... and Curious's Zvz is no slouch not to mention Curious is miles above Zenio in terms of ELO
The only person I can see taking out DRG is Hero... poor Hero is slightly inconsistent though...
Zenio has a 75.00% win rate in ZvZ. If you don't include NesTea, he's got a 90.00% win rate (18-2). First off it's ZvZ, so it's already kind of crazy as far as who wins. Secondly, it's a Bo1. Zenio definitely could beat DRG in a ZvZ Bo1.
EDIT: Also, I know that everybody talks about how DRG's ZvP is his weakness, which I definitely used to see, but now that he's got a 70% win rate against the best Koreans and--as you said--after beating PartinG and Squirtle in the KSL, can we finally drop this nonsense that DRG is "BAD" at ZvP? He currently holds the third highest ELO in the match-up...Like come on, what does the guy have to do to be "good" at ZvP?
HerO doesn't even have a positive win rate in PvZ, how on earth do you expect him to beat a monster like DRG? I know stats aren't everything, but I think you really need to reconsider your perception of Zenio, HerO, and DRG.
On January 24 2012 12:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: The fact that you think Artist can handle Symbol and Polt is laughable to me.
In his last 40 TvZ's he's lost 4 games. And the people he's played against includes DIMAGA, Lucky, sLivko and Sheth. Lucky's ZvT is better than Symbol's and any of the other ZvTs on TSL for that matter.
The fact that you can somehow blow that off as not being a big deal is laughable to me.
And Polt is pretty inconsistent in TvT. His style is pretty cheesy so I think that Artist definitely could beat him. I'd still favor Polt in that match-up, but I wouldn't say that there is no way that Artist could handle Polt.
EDIT: Also RevivaL only has 6 first place finishes in Playhem Daily, where as Artist has 15... just sayin' ^^
Lucky's ZvT is not that good. I don't know why you insist on saying that. It's actually pretty mediocre. Just because he gave MvP a good run in Ro32 doesn't mean he's magically good at the matchup these days. Virus did the same thing against Nestea and...oh wait, he's still mediocre in TvZ.
Polt cheesy in TvT? You must be talking about some other player.
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions last season and then got smashed for it publicly? Feel free to do that if TH is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
Zenio can definitely beat DRG and Genius, but the MvP Terrans will prove too much of a problem for him.
Also, TH didn't write that prediction ^^
Zenio cannot win a ZvP against any decent Korean Protoss. Check his TLPD for proof. He's as bad in ZvP as JYP is in PvT.
On January 24 2012 12:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: The fact that you think Artist can handle Symbol and Polt is laughable to me.
In his last 40 TvZ's he's lost 4 games. And the people he's played against includes DIMAGA, Lucky, sLivko and Sheth. Lucky's ZvT is better than Symbol's and any of the other ZvTs on TSL for that matter.
The fact that you can somehow blow that off as not being a big deal is laughable to me.
And Polt is pretty inconsistent in TvT. His style is pretty cheesy so I think that Artist definitely could beat him. I'd still favor Polt in that match-up, but I wouldn't say that there is no way that Artist could handle Polt.
EDIT: Also RevivaL only has 6 first place finishes in Playhem Daily, where as Artist has 15... just sayin' ^^
Lucky's ZvT is not that good. I don't know why you insist on saying that. It's actually pretty mediocre.
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions last season and then got smashed for it publicly? Feel free to do that if TH is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
Zenio can definitely beat DRG and Genius, but the MvP Terrans will prove too much of a problem for him.
Also, TH didn't write that prediction ^^
Zenio cannot win a ZvP against any decent Korean Protoss. Check his TLPD for proof. He's as bad in ZvP as JYP is in PvT.
A lot of those matches are old, though he does have a bad record. Last thing I saw of Zenio was him crushing NaNiwa at IEM, though. Maybe you missed that, but NaNiwa is actually pretty damn good at PvZ (even though he claims it's his "weakest" match-up, his play at MLG Prov. was really impressive and he has continued to get better and better, until he met Leenock he looked unstoppable at MLG Providence and at the Global Invitational).
And it's a well known fact that Polt's play is based around a plethora of various Ee Han Timings. There not all cheesy, but he certainly is not some "macro Terran." Especially in TvT, don't you know, Polt loves Marauders and Tank Pushes.
And as far as Lucky goes, the second Bo3 he played against Mvp was really impressive. Mvp played well and Lucky pushed him to the brink. Perhaps I'm being a bit too optimistic of his ZvT abilities, but he's good at ZvT.
On January 24 2012 12:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: The fact that you think Artist can handle Symbol and Polt is laughable to me.
In his last 40 TvZ's he's lost 4 games. And the people he's played against includes DIMAGA, Lucky, sLivko and Sheth. Lucky's ZvT is better than Symbol's and any of the other ZvTs on TSL for that matter.
The fact that you can somehow blow that off as not being a big deal is laughable to me.
And Polt is pretty inconsistent in TvT. His style is pretty cheesy so I think that Artist definitely could beat him. I'd still favor Polt in that match-up, but I wouldn't say that there is no way that Artist could handle Polt.
EDIT: Also RevivaL only has 6 first place finishes in Playhem Daily, where as Artist has 15... just sayin' ^^
Lucky's ZvT is not that good. I don't know why you insist on saying that. It's actually pretty mediocre.
Polt cheesy in TVT LMFAO.
On January 24 2012 13:30 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 24 2012 13:27 Kennigit wrote:
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions last season and then got smashed for it publicly? Feel free to do that if TH is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
Zenio can definitely beat DRG and Genius, but the MvP Terrans will prove too much of a problem for him.
Also, TH didn't write that prediction ^^
Zenio cannot win a ZvP against any decent Korean Protoss. Check his TLPD for proof. He's as bad in ZvP as JYP is in PvT.
A lot of those matches are old, though he does have a bad record. Last thing I saw of Zenio was him crushing NaNiwa at IEM, though. Maybe you missed that, but NaNiwa is actually pretty damn good at PvZ (even though he claims it's his "weakest" match-up, his play at MLG Prov. was really impressive and he has continued to get better and better, until he met Leenock he looked unstoppable at MLG Providence and at the Global Invitational).
And it's a well known fact that Polt's play is based around a plethora of various Ee Han Timings. There not all cheesy, but he certainly is not some "macro Terran." Especially in TvT, don't you know, Polt loves Marauders and Tank Pushes.
And as far as Lucky goes, the second Bo3 he played against Mvp was really impressive. Mvp played well and Lucky pushed him to the brink. Perhaps I'm being a bit too optimistic of his ZvT abilities, but he's good at ZvT.
Zenio is actually really bad at ZvP. He was bad at it when the metagame heavily favored zerg players (I remember one particularly horrific game against HongUnPrime) and he's bad at it now. He won his ZvP games at IEM simply because he was better than those players, and he didn't look particularly look good at it either. Subpar control, floating money all the time, bizarre inefficient army compositions...
Naniwa is not good at PvZ at all. He beat a slumping Nestea and a DRG who just threw up before the match, then Leenock rocked him and everyone figured him out. He sticks to the same stubborn builds and has zero confidence in the matchup, so he does massive 2 base pushes without much planning into the late game. Plus he got mindgamed so badly by Zenio at IEM he had no chance at winning even if his builds all clicked.
No, that is a well-known myth circulated by people who think he plays like he did in January. He likes to use timing pushes in early-game TvZ and TvP, but he mostly uses his knowledge of timings for defense in TvT. He prefers marine/tank TvT unless he sees mech, then he uses heavy marauder compositions and tries to control the map for flanking maneuvers. If your cutoff point for a macro player is "a playstyle based around timings" then feel free to discount MvP, MMA, sC, MC, and every other competent Korean progamer. And yes Polt certainly counts as a macro Terran: watch him outmacro Hero badly in the NASL showmatch for starters.
On January 24 2012 12:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: The fact that you think Artist can handle Symbol and Polt is laughable to me.
In his last 40 TvZ's he's lost 4 games. And the people he's played against includes DIMAGA, Lucky, sLivko and Sheth. Lucky's ZvT is better than Symbol's and any of the other ZvTs on TSL for that matter.
The fact that you can somehow blow that off as not being a big deal is laughable to me.
And Polt is pretty inconsistent in TvT. His style is pretty cheesy so I think that Artist definitely could beat him. I'd still favor Polt in that match-up, but I wouldn't say that there is no way that Artist could handle Polt.
EDIT: Also RevivaL only has 6 first place finishes in Playhem Daily, where as Artist has 15... just sayin' ^^
Lucky's ZvT better than Symbols? Ok, sure.
Lucky wouldn't even be on the map for ZvT if he didn't abuse Roach timings against Slayers Terran's hellion builds at IPL.
You want to talk ZvT? Polt's recent wins are over NesTea, Leenock, and LosirA, players that are miles ahead of Dimaga, Lucky, sLivko, and Sheth
Polt, a GSL Champion from his TvT, is miles ahead of Artist who doesn't even have any games on record in Korea. I can't believe you'd call Polt cheesy when comparing him to a master of fine fromage like Artist.
TSL won't lose to ReIGN, and I'd bet on that too if I were you. ReIGN is a strong foreigner team, but they're nothing compared to a Korean team, especially TSL. I wouldn't even be surprised if Symbol all-killed them the way he's been playing lately.
On January 24 2012 12:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: The fact that you think Artist can handle Symbol and Polt is laughable to me.
In his last 40 TvZ's he's lost 4 games. And the people he's played against includes DIMAGA, Lucky, sLivko and Sheth. Lucky's ZvT is better than Symbol's and any of the other ZvTs on TSL for that matter.
The fact that you can somehow blow that off as not being a big deal is laughable to me.
And Polt is pretty inconsistent in TvT. His style is pretty cheesy so I think that Artist definitely could beat him. I'd still favor Polt in that match-up, but I wouldn't say that there is no way that Artist could handle Polt.
EDIT: Also RevivaL only has 6 first place finishes in Playhem Daily, where as Artist has 15... just sayin' ^^
Lucky's ZvT better than Symbols? Ok, sure.
Lucky wouldn't even be on the map for ZvT if he didn't abuse Roach timings against Slayers Terran's hellion builds at IPL.
You want to talk ZvT? Polt's recent wins are over NesTea, Leenock, and LosirA, players that are miles ahead of Dimaga, Lucky, sLivko, and Sheth
Polt, a GSL Champion from his TvT, is miles ahead of Artist who doesn't even have any games on record in Korea. I can't believe you'd call Polt cheesy when comparing him to a master of fine fromage like Artist.
TSL won't lose to ReIGN, and I'd bet on that too if I were you. ReIGN is a strong foreigner team, but they're nothing compared to a Korean team, especially TSL. I wouldn't even be surprised if Symbol all-killed them the way he's been playing lately.
First off I didn't question Polt's TvZ, I wouldn't because I recognize that it's good.
I also didn't necessarily say that Artist is a straight up player in TvT either, in fact that makes the whole Bo1 scenario between the two of them even harder to predict.
And personally I don't think that TSL will lose to ReIGN, but with the recent commotion that's been going on, saying that Artist will do well against TSL Zergs is not stretching the truth at all. I never said that I would favor ReIGN over TSL. I never said that I would favor Artist over Polt. What I did say is that given the format and recent conditions it would not be completely unheard of it Artist were to pull out a crazy (yet unlikely) win.
What I did say is that Artist could pose a problem for TSL if he takes out too many of their Zergs. Artist is a ridiculously good TvZer, and is 2-0 all time against Symbol.
You're selling ReIGN too short, but perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic about certain players. One thing that I will stand behind though is that Artist is good at TvZ. His stats and performance in general speaks to that, I really don't see how you can say that he can't hold his own against TSL's Zergs, none of whom are even Code S yet. Also, I think that TSL will win, but it's going to be a lot closer than everybody is saying it will be depending on how many Zergs Artist gets to face before he gets taken down.
(I still think that Lucky is good at ZvT and that Polt's style of TvT tends to be more cheesy or at the very least more aggressive; and that a Tank Push in TvT is a form of an ee han timing, don't really see how I misused that one there??)
coLMVP’s roster is larger by far, but despite last season's tremendous inspiration from Keen, the limited consistency of Noblesse and everyone else means they lack aces outside of their team league standby, DongRaeGu.
lol, this is because DRG is so good that the other MvP guys get overshadowed. If sC, Keen, Genius were on TL, they would be aces
On January 24 2012 13:04 Whatson wrote: Teamliquid over coLMVP? Um, I understand that this is a Team Liquid sponsored website, but can we make these predictions slightly more reasonable? You don't mess with DRG in a team league. EVER. Also, Genius is a pretty beastly as well, great at PvP and above average at PvZ. Liquid right now is relying on HerO and Zenio. Well, Zenio's ZvT is pretty weak, and sC has proven to be really great at TvZ (he brought DRG to the last set in a bo7, can't get much better than that), or Noblesse/Keen could step up. HerO could very well fall to DRG or Genius, or even lose to sC (who has a ~67% win rate against Protoss in Korea)
Hi, i run marketing for Liquid`. That means its my job to make sure they look good all the time - even I think this prediction is crazy. The nature of TL though is that we have a lot of writers with a lot of different opinions. Remember when Wax made bad predictions in GSL a 1 or 2 seasons ago and then had to eat humble pie?? Feel free to do that if TH is wrong. At the end of the day, it's just video games!
No BS: It really depends how seriously MVP takes the match but id say it ranges from 35-45% for Liquid. MVP could pull out DRG really early, or they could just send practice partners, or it could be half of coL. FWIW I really hate these team partnerships combined in team leagues.
Ahh okay I respect that, I think I went a little overboard, and I do agree that TL is such a great website because of the variety of opinions. And to Waxangel, TreeHugger, and any other writer I might've offended or annoyed...SORRY
I laugh at ppl saying Polt's TvT is inconsistent and cheesy. His engagement timing is second to none. Go watch him demolishing forgg recently for more info. Maybe MMA/mvp/someone else can exploit Polt's weakness but Artist who ? some random code B ? I know he played in MLG months ago but I dont watch enough playhems to get an idea of how boss he is (I can named 10 GSL terrans that have awesome vZ/vT though) Inori ? Is the last time that hes revelant half a year ago? Maybe he can coinflip a PvP (I doubt TSL would field more than one toss) Axslav? Iirc hes pretty gosu in 2v2 back in wc3 days I dont mean to bash Reign. But those no-names have absolutely no chance against TSL's lineup.
On January 24 2012 14:49 Arceus wrote: I laugh at ppl saying Polt's TvT is inconsistent and cheesy. His engagement timing is second to none. Go watch him demolishing forgg recently for more info. Maybe MMA/mvp/someone else can exploit Polt's weakness but Artist who ? some random code B ? I know he played in MLG months ago but I dont watch enough playhems to get an idea of how boss he is (I can named 10 GSL terrans that have awesome vZ/vT though) Inori ? Is the last time that hes revelant half a year ago? Maybe he can coinflip a PvP (I doubt TSL would field more than one toss) Axslav? Iirc hes pretty gosu in 2v2 back in wc3 days I dont mean to bash Reign. But those no-names have absolutely no chance against TSL's lineup.
On January 24 2012 14:49 Arceus wrote: I laugh at ppl saying Polt's TvT is inconsistent and cheesy. His engagement timing is second to none. Go watch him demolishing forgg recently for more info. Maybe MMA/mvp/someone else can exploit Polt's weakness but Artist who ? some random code B ? I know he played in MLG months ago but I dont watch enough playhems to get an idea of how boss he is (I can named 10 GSL terrans that have awesome vZ/vT though) Inori ? Is the last time that hes revelant half a year ago? Maybe he can coinflip a PvP (I doubt TSL would field more than one toss) Axslav? Iirc hes pretty gosu in 2v2 back in wc3 days I dont mean to bash Reign. But those no-names have absolutely no chance against TSL's lineup.
told ya before I dont give a damn about playhem/xilence/whatever nor international tlpd. The guy got ZERO recorded games in Korean tlpd. Is he some hidden bonjwa training in a cave or what? I bet hes gonna royal-walk the next GSL with that 72% winrate and gldk TvZ holy jesus btw PuMa must be the second best player in the universe too, according to international TLPD. He just failed to make to a single Code fuckin A
On January 24 2012 14:49 Arceus wrote: I laugh at ppl saying Polt's TvT is inconsistent and cheesy. His engagement timing is second to none. Go watch him demolishing forgg recently for more info. Maybe MMA/mvp/someone else can exploit Polt's weakness but Artist who ? some random code B ? I know he played in MLG months ago but I dont watch enough playhems to get an idea of how boss he is (I can named 10 GSL terrans that have awesome vZ/vT though) Inori ? Is the last time that hes revelant half a year ago? Maybe he can coinflip a PvP (I doubt TSL would field more than one toss) Axslav? Iirc hes pretty gosu in 2v2 back in wc3 days I dont mean to bash Reign. But those no-names have absolutely no chance against TSL's lineup.
told ya before I dont give a damn about playhem/xilence/whatever nor international tlpd. The guy got ZERO recorded games in Korean tlpd. Is he some hidden bonjwa training in a cave or what? I bet hes gonna royal-walk the next GSL with that 72% winrate and gldk TvZ holy jesus btw PuMa must be the second best player in the universe too, according to international TLPD. He just failed to make to a single Code fuckin A
I wish that people like you wouldn't post.
And Polt lost to fOrGG when he played him, so I don't know what you were trying to say by that other post.
On January 24 2012 14:49 Arceus wrote: I laugh at ppl saying Polt's TvT is inconsistent and cheesy. His engagement timing is second to none. Go watch him demolishing forgg recently for more info. Maybe MMA/mvp/someone else can exploit Polt's weakness but Artist who ? some random code B ? I know he played in MLG months ago but I dont watch enough playhems to get an idea of how boss he is (I can named 10 GSL terrans that have awesome vZ/vT though) Inori ? Is the last time that hes revelant half a year ago? Maybe he can coinflip a PvP (I doubt TSL would field more than one toss) Axslav? Iirc hes pretty gosu in 2v2 back in wc3 days I dont mean to bash Reign. But those no-names have absolutely no chance against TSL's lineup.
told ya before I dont give a damn about playhem/xilence/whatever nor international tlpd. The guy got ZERO recorded games in Korean tlpd. Is he some hidden bonjwa training in a cave or what? I bet hes gonna royal-walk the next GSL with that 72% winrate and gldk TvZ holy jesus btw PuMa must be the second best player in the universe too, according to international TLPD. He just failed to make to a single Code fuckin A
I wish that people like you wouldn't post.
And Polt lost to fOrGG when he played him, so I don't know what you were trying to say by that other post.
He lost to ForGG 2-0 in Code A, then beat ForGG 2-0 in the FXO Invitational. The loss itself was an anomaly; Polt was extremely sloppy in his defense, something he is usually not. The latter series is a better reflection of his 'ordinary' play.
the EG and Liquid games should be fantastic, I really love that IGN is doing such a fantastic job with the team league, very very nice thing to see, and personally I sometimes like the team league more than the individual tournaments.
I've been waiting for the team leagues. This and GSTL should be exciting. Hate to jump on the band wagon but I didn't agree with these predictions either, most of all Liquid over MVP. I just can't see that happening. Liquid has the players to pull it off though, perhaps they will show surpass expectations and impress. A good performance from HerO will be crucial. They really need to pick up a strong protoss or terran to balance out their zerg-heavy lineup and drop some of their zergs. I'm not sure if Haypro, Sheth, and Ret cut it on an international stage.
Way too much foreigner bias in the prediciton. Every foreigner team should be an underdog in their series. Lets hope for exciting series and 1-2 upsets.
Mousesports 3-5 Quantic New Star HoSeo 5-1 Dignitas EG 1-5 oGs coL.MvP 5-2 Liquid` TSL 5-1 ReIGN FXO 5-2 Vile Startale 5-2 ZeNex Prime 5-2 Empire
Agreeing wholeheartedly on the predictions, except that I think Mousesports vs Quantic is much closer. Also, I think EG will at least be able to take 2 gaems of oGs
I WANT to see someone like agh randomly beating Kas and showing the world he's actually a player to look at... I don't want to see 4 inconsequential matches into MMA reverse all killing the entire world....
On January 24 2012 18:25 Strawburry17 wrote: I think FXOLucky is one of the best ZvTer in the world...
He destoyed slayersmma 3-0 and kicked his ass out of the whole tournament (IPL Ro.04)....and slayersryung and boxer too
it is not logical that his ZvT is not good inisiting on that he was 1-4ed by IMMvp....
cuz IMMvp is the best TvZer in the world....even just winning a set against him means more than anything...
He had the presence of mind to notice all of the SlayerS Terrans had the same goddamn build order and then reacted accordingly each time... as Ryung, BoxeR, and MMA slammed their heads into walls repeatedly with that utterly imbecilic Hellion opener...
It is logical to say his ZvT isn't Epic tier along with IMMVP and SlayerS_MMA... just because the entirety of his ZvT "televised" experience is 9 games with those 3 SlayerS Terrans before this point....
Sure, he MIGHT be friggin awesome.... but some could just as easily argue that lack of any real GSL experience shows he's just a one hit wonder who managed to build order lol some other players into the ground in a foreign jet lag tournament...
Well the strongest korean teams right now are MVP and Prime (im too ) but in the predictions they both lose... Those predictions aren´t optimistic because nobody would put Charlotte Bobcats winning playoffs against Miami Heat .. sorry
I will love the IPL this time around , i hope we will get great games with great casters !
Some, erm, interesting predictions, but you admitted huge bias, so I'll forgive you. I LOVE TEAM LEAGUES, SOSOSOSOO MUCH. IPL, GCPL, NASTL, EGMC, you name em, I watchem. I love them.
EDIT: lol, the fights in this thread are hilarious, everybody be happy. An awesome Team League is gonna start. More are coming. Life's good. Good job on TL for front paging this, it's deserves the attention its getting.
These predictions look quite skewed toward foreigners, to be honest. A few korean teams could have a lot of unsuspected depth. By the way, I doubt that oGs consider Fin their Ace. Supernova is more likely, considering his performance lately.
On January 24 2012 18:25 Strawburry17 wrote: I think FXOLucky is one of the best ZvTer in the world...
He destoyed slayersmma 3-0 and kicked his ass out of the whole tournament (IPL Ro.04)....and slayersryung and boxer too
it is not logical that his ZvT is not good inisiting on that he was 1-4ed by IMMvp....
cuz IMMvp is the best TvZer in the world....even just winning a set against him means more than anything...
No. Roach ling bling allins and busts are not examples of world class play, especially if they are the cornerstone of your zvt strategy. Lucky did not play well at ipl, he meta-gamed well. Actionjesus meta-gamed well too when he six pooled to victory at dream hack, but his play was mediocre. Slayers could have reacted better, but no one expected that many busts. If you were to look at lucky during ipl3, he even looked a bit guilty for getting to the finals the way he did.
What he has done since is a better example of his skills. He's good but his play at ipl3 can only be considered gimmicky.
Even though TSL are in a slump at the moment, they will still destroy reign, that will not even be close, if cyrano playes, they can bring out inori and get 1 game, but unless inori all kills TSL, they will only win the amount of games that he does, Polt could beat reign in a 4 on one match
On January 24 2012 22:59 CojoStarcraft wrote: They should have let Whitera join as his own team. lol
Prime should be allowed to use him in this team league. I don't think they can but since Tt eSPORTS and Prime have a partnership that would be awesome ^^
If I am informed correctly, half of the ipl games are going to be on KR server when there is a KR team playing correct? i dont think that you gave enough respect to the korean teams here. oGs>EG col.MVP>liquid, Prime>Empire and TSL>Reign in my opinion. It's hard to bet against koreans.
if one of those teams has a chance for an upset i would say its probably EG over oGs, just because EG has a couple koreans of their own (and HuK, who is basically a korean).
On January 25 2012 03:01 ishboh wrote: If I am informed correctly, half of the ipl games are going to be on KR server when there is a KR team playing correct? i dont think that you gave enough respect to the korean teams here. oGs>EG col.MVP>liquid, Prime>Empire and TSL>Reign in my opinion. It's hard to bet against koreans.
if one of those teams has a chance for an upset i would say its probably EG over oGs, just because EG has a couple koreans of their own (and HuK, who is basically a korean).
This is basically the cornerstone of my own predictions. I dont care how talented your team is (looking at you Liquid`), fighting koreans in a team league just won't pan out the way you want it to.
Talk about biased lmao, EG to take down oGs with who? Puma and JYP? Liquid can't beat MVP wtf, they're MVP with Keen, Genius, DRG and sC man. And a single Polt could all-kill ReIGN easily.
This's the worst prediction so far I've ever read.
Way too biased in favor of Liquid IMO. ColMVP has players like DRG, Genius, sC, and Keen, all Code S players (one of them being the strongest team league player in the world easily, in terms of the results - DRG has carried his team time and time again with ridiculous amounts of kills). What does Liquid have? Foreigners, Hero, and Zenio. I like Hero, but he hasn't shown he has the consistency or the control over his nerves to truly compete at the top level like the best MVP players have, and Zenio, while Code S, isn't as strong as any of MVP's Code S players IMO, especially since sC, Keen, DRG, and Genius all have great vZs.
If MVP takes this seriously, Liquid doesn't stand a chance.
Sorry if this has already been asked or posted somewhere, but what server are these games being played on when two players are in different locations? Do they rotate servers on a loss, or only on KR or NA, etc.?
Oh man, I can just take lunch at 12:30 and watch TSL vs. Reign! :3 super excited for this event, team events are just much more exciting and fun than solo.
Great write up though i feel the predictions favor the foreigners a little ^^ btw for those of you who would appreciate a link here it is http://www.ign.com/ipl/tv/live?streams=ignproleague I looked for a link but i could find one in this thread. I think it would be really helpful if in the future if the author of the article would post the link to the event that they were writing on.