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IEM Sao Paulo, Day One - Victory Road
February 8th, 2012 00:55 GMT
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I like DeMuslim, Ret, or violet to take the whole thing
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On February 08 2012 09:57 TheCtd400 wrote: I like DeMuslim, Ret, or violet to take the whole thing Supernova will take it if he doesn't get nerve issues
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Great write up! Psyched for the show!
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Definitely going to be good, but the end is really going to depend on WHEN the heavy hitters of Ret/Dimaga/Demuslim/Violet will be hitting eachother later on.
Group D is going to be weird..... all ZvZ x.X
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Cheerin up for Potiguar, Tunico and KiLLeR. :D
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I don't think I'm the only one hoping for a huge upset win by vileIllusion
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United States732 Posts
Awesome writeup! Thanks so much. <3
Edit: I think Feast will make it out of his group 3-0. He's too good.
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hope illusion gets out of his group and does well! supernova to take it though
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reis is gonna try to snipe another oGs player
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You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.
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I want d.Killer to make it out of dat group!!! Did you know that guy has a 57% win rate on TLPD?? He's good and I hope he can make me proud. :`)
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LOL I'm loving the Mr. Bitter massive brain fart at the end. <3 you bitter
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Oh and Vile Illusion fighting!!!
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Always hoping for Ret...never quite gets there, w/e. Ret fighting!
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Go Illusion! For the USA!
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I need to add that I love Illusion. He is the USA's SC hope, i believe.
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Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...
Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.
I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...
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On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere
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Gonna sleep right now to be there tomorrow. Go Tunico
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valid point thx for the explanation, was not familiar with that expression.
The other points so still stand. The bias opinion that the author is never impressed by his play is out of place imho.
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DeMuslim or Ret to take it, they both have been on the cusp of winning something big for so long, I really hope this happens!
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Supernova will not make it out of his group.
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DeMu has this :DD Come on DeMu!!!!! :DDD
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On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote: You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.
You're not first.
A coward's prediction. No one will remember it if you are wrong.
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On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that... Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... Dude chill out.... It's a TL article written by writers with their own personal opinions, it's reasonable for them to dislike certain players. I personally don't think Feast is that good, but unless you want to write an article going over 8 players and their recent backgrounds, interviews, and predictions, I suggest you be happy with what you're reading now. Just saying, DH and Assembly were in the EAST.
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On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote: You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.
Oh look, it's that guy who makes dumb predictions so he can bump on the off chance he's right but no one will remember when he's wrong, and you weren't even the first to do that.
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Rooting for Snute and Illusion right now!
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On February 08 2012 11:10 Chunhyang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote: You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now. You're not first. A coward's prediction. No one will remember it if you are wrong.
On February 08 2012 11:17 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote: You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now. Oh look, it's that guy who makes dumb predictions so he can bump on the off chance he's right but no one will remember when he's wrong, and you weren't even the first to do that.
Ok guys, You might want to a) breathe b) chill.
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>.< i can't say i love this player list much but GO GO IEM!!
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Illusion going to win this ezpz.
I should get him to sign a bunch of stuff before he becomes uber famous and forgets me
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supernova has this in his pocket.
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ogsillusion always get linked in tlpd instead of vileillusion...lol poor chris.
vileillusion is better anyway.
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poor supernova having to face dark force, might lose that really well. And go go xlord !
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I think Supernova will win, but I hope Ret will ^_^ would like too see more of Illusion, so hopefully he will advance too
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I don't cheer many protosses, but I'm pulling for Feast.
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On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that... Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... They are above average results and so that's why he said he gets above average results.
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On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that... Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...
I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL...
On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans...
Pred: Supernova 3-0 Darkforce 2-1 Illusion 1-2 Killer 0-3
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So according to Grubby, Fenix isn't gonna make it to IEM.....Visa issues
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I'm really excited to see how Illusion does, I've been familiar with his play since he won his first DC LAN back in the summer. I know he has a really good chance of making it out of the group!
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I think Darkforce will advance out of his group and is being underrated. He's better than Killer, has generally performed at a much higher level than Illusion and is capable of taking a game off Supernova.
As the commenter pointed out above he took third in the GeForce tournament which had an insanely competitive field. He may not be the best European but he's in the top tier and that's enough for me to favor him against Feast and Illusion (in spite of the latter's excellent play of late).
Also Supernova's record according to your own database is the worst (marginally) against Zerg and he just lost 3-1 against Leenock. I'm not saying he shouldn't be favored in the tournament, but the write up was hyping him a little too strongly, even though he looked very strong in the first round at the GSL. Otherwise no quibbles.
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On February 08 2012 10:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere
This is BEYOND nit picking. Europe and America are in the Western Hemisphere without doubt. Unless the Cold War of East against West had some severe tectonic movement to agree with the dictionary definition...
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DIMAGA is literally the nicest person to walk to the earth, with WhiteRa ofc.
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On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that... Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL... On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans... Pred: Supernova 3-0 Darkforce 2-1 Illusion 1-2 Killer 0-3 please don't start this nonsense, he hasn't posted results in a while, the writers haven't forgotten about him it's simply hard to predict a guy who hasn't played in a while to do well.
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When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile?
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On February 08 2012 14:49 ZisforZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that... Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL... On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans... Pred: Supernova 3-0 Darkforce 2-1 Illusion 1-2 Killer 0-3 please don't start this nonsense, he hasn't posted results in a while, the writers haven't forgotten about him it's simply hard to predict a guy who hasn't played in a while to do well.
Nonsense? Darkforce beat MarineKing at WCG in December and got in to the top 16 at Home Story Cup last month. I forgot how every player in SC2 should only be judged by how they performed last week.
I would like nothing more than the colossal hype train that is illusion to crash to and burn. It's the guys first LAN outside of the US, he's 15 years old and says in an interview he lies IRL when he plays in these tournaments.
Seriously, he's beaten two koreans online in best of 1's where they are playing cross server and then come "second" in an online tournament by beating Poyo, Incontrol, Catz and Destiny. Can we wait until people do something moderately decent in an offline setting before going mental about them, and by moderately decent I don't mean 24th place at an MLG, TriMaster got 16th at MLG Anaheim, where is he now.
On February 08 2012 15:18 devPLEASE wrote: When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile?
Same ID, different player.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Illusion_(Korean_player) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Illusion_(American_player)
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Supernova is like MMA was in IEM kiev...
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Supernova is definitely the mega favourite to win, I'd say. Hoping for a Ret win, though.
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I don't know...Darkforce is pretty good in ZvT...
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Dunno, I think Illusion is kind of overhyped these days. If you look at his past results, he only has a meager bronze medal in which he went through: destiny and incontrol as most notable players... Anyways, should Illusion not finish second in the group, I can't promise I won't have a smug smile on my face.
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is ROTTERDAM going to be casting??? OH SHIT SO EXCITED
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On February 08 2012 13:03 Melo. wrote:So according to Grubby, Fenix isn't gonna make it to IEM.....Visa issues
I find it extremely doubtful that a Peruvian citizen needs a Visa to travel to Brazil.
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The Group A Predictions are really WEIRD...
Aside from Supernova 3-0 which is kinda a given... It's just 100% guessing whiteout any facts or anything behind it except country bias? ^^ I just don't see any "smart" way to "guess" the outcome of this group, if DF brings his best play he should for sure get second... If not this could get messi. Predicting 0-3 Darkforce is really strange tho...
Or you could go with the "JETLAG!" excuse and say that Supernova will drop 1 serioes and DF get crushed.. Which will make things messi again ^^.
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DeMuslim lost 4-5 not 3-4 to BlinG
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omg so many zergs i bet the casters are gonna get real tired of casting zvz.....
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I hope Darkforce and Xlord can make it. Germany needs some positive results, because it seems like all our players are in a slump right now (Hasu, Socke, Goody).
I won't argue about the 0-3 prediction for Darkforce, because it's definitely possible, but I think he should be a slight favorite for 2nd place in his group.
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xlord will tear them apart!
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Demuslim lost 4-5, not 3-4...it was a best of 9.
That said, DEMUSLIM HWAITING! Gogogogo demu!
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On February 08 2012 18:38 -ZiG- wrote: omg so many zergs i bet the casters are gonna get real tired of casting zvz..... MrBitter getting tired of ZvZ?
Not gonna happen. :p
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On February 08 2012 10:05 VirgilSC2 wrote: I don't think I'm the only one hoping for a huge upset win by vileIllusion
*prays* ^^
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I have to work till 5pm cet, nooo
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its são paulo btw ~ over the a., it means a more nasal sound.
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On February 08 2012 19:59 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 18:38 -ZiG- wrote: omg so many zergs i bet the casters are gonna get real tired of casting zvz..... MrBitter getting tired of ZvZ? Not gonna happen. :p The american Flash? First major win with 15?
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i would like to bet against your prediction :D
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On February 08 2012 21:13 DarKFoRcE wrote: i would like to bet against your prediction :D
go for it darkforce! ^^ how was the storm btw yesterday? all good now?
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On February 08 2012 21:17 Kiwiandapple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 21:13 DarKFoRcE wrote: i would like to bet against your prediction :D go for it darkforce! ^^ how was the storm btw yesterday? all good now?
it was very good, cooled down the place alot!
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I really want to KiLLeR pass his bracket, he's a excelent player, but he has to defeat an amazing players... GOGO KiLLeR, you can do it bro!
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I laughed at DF 0 - 3. I dont think illusion stands a chance. seriously whoever wrote that seems to be blind. DFs zvt is amazing
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hope supernova doesn't choke, guy deserves a tournament win
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Oh look, Darkforce 1-0 and illusion 0-1.
If Darkforce can just beat Killer then he's through assuming an obvious supernova 3-0 crush.
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and bad prediction is wrong after first game :D
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On February 08 2012 16:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Dunno, I think Illusion is kind of overhyped these days. If you look at his past results, he only has a meager bronze medal in which he went through: destiny and incontrol as most notable players... Anyways, should Illusion not finish second in the group, I can't promise I won't have a smug smile on my face.
my lips are starting to tickle!
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that... Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL... On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans... Pred: Supernova 3-0 Darkforce 2-1 Illusion 1-2 Killer 0-3 You've clearly never read anything I've ever written then, or you'd know how highly I rate Europeans.
On February 08 2012 14:45 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 10:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcEI guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene. I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players... Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere This is BEYOND nit picking. Europe and America are in the Western Hemisphere without doubt. Unless the Cold War of East against West had some severe tectonic movement to agree with the dictionary definition... It's not beyond nitpicking, it's precisely what I said, and precisely what I meant.
On February 08 2012 23:20 DailYLeet wrote: and bad prediction is wrong after first game :D Sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. DarKFoRcE has a turtly playstyle, which I think is boring, and hope gets picked apart more often as faster and more aggressive players come around. Winning a series 2-1 against Illusion doesn't change much. Notice that I said he's the second favorite to advance from the group. In the for funsies number prediction, I thought he might go 0-3 (3-6). Maybe he'll go 1-2 instead, or maybe he'll go 2-1. But all of the Germans in this thread should probably chill out about it.
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Hey tree. im perfectly fine with your analysis and love those writeups. Dont get annoyed by the few haters. thanks as always for the writing!
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Cheering for Killer and Fenix.
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Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...
What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him. If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?
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Sounds exciting can´t wait to see how MYM.XLorD will perform!!
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Hi, wanted to say that the tlpd for ilusion is wrong, that is the illusion from ogs! gogo europe!
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wow illusion such a good player.... NOT
User was warned for this post
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illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.
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nice darkforce! now its time for xlord to do the same
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On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote: illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches. I think a lot of the hype around Illusion is based upon the fact that his playstyle is incredibly fun to watch. I love it at least. Add in that he is pretty good at such a young age and I think he will become a truely great player even if he doesn't have the experience it would require to win LAN events yet.
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lol bias of writers totally wrong, expect supernova... which only toddler would fail to predict.
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I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.
Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).
I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.
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On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.
Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).
I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.
Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.
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On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.
Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).
I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it. Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.
I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote: illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches. Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.
On February 09 2012 01:37 OrbitalPlane wrote: Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...
What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him. If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?
Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group, that he was the second most likely to advance?
Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o
I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.
On February 09 2012 04:19 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.
Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).
I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it. Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2. I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well Beasty top three foreign terran?
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i actually don't want to be too narrow-minded, the rest of the write up was pretty good but since you asked here are your answers:
Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. I already did on page 1, but here again special for you: lack of stellar major tournament results is not true and DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals is arguably wrong too. he has put up quite decent good results in a lot of big tournaments just some examples: He beat several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on the GeForce tournament and placing 3rd did well at WCG, beating MKP and getting out of the group at both NASL, first placing as the highest foreigner, second one going to the playoffs
Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results. This sounds very weird to me. what is average results? and what is above-average results? Sounds to me like not very extraordinary.
Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. the only really positive thing i can find is that he is funny.
Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group yes i did, that's more a fact than a positive statement
that he was the second most likely to advance? Your prediction was 0:3 so sorry that i don't buy that...
Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o i actually did, but it seems you did not read my post on page 1.
I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.
I just don't think its the right place to criticize a player. I don't mind if you post it somewhere else but not in the presentation of a player. But that's just my opinion maybe i am the only one who is bothered by that.
the prediction is fine fore me. even so a lot of people might disagree thats your good right to say so. (But if you make such a ballsy prediction you should not be surprised if other people have a different opinion. even so here were quite some unfair flames about it tbh)
EDIT: Beastyqt Illusion showmatch? i would have to bet on beasty so. :D
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i would make my bets on beasty too.
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On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote: illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches. Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.
What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20?
I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote:i actually don't want to be too narrow-minded, the rest of the write up was pretty good but since you asked here are your answers: Show nested quote +Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. I already did on page 1, but here again special for you: lack of stellar major tournament results is not true and DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals is arguably wrong too. he has put up quite decent good results in a lot of big tournaments just some examples: He beat several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on the GeForce tournament and placing 3rd did well at WCG, beating MKP and getting out of the group at both NASL, first placing as the highest foreigner, second one going to the playoffs Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results.This sounds very weird to me. what is average results? and what is above-average results? Sounds to me like not very extraordinary. You're totally mincing words. DarKFoRcE's results aren't 'stellar', that's a word I'd describe for people who've won things. Above average, is a phrase I'd use to describe players like DarKFoRcE who have a few good finishes, but have never really threatened to win a tournament. I don't count a Bo1 defeat of MKP as better than a Bo3 defeat of aLive. You're right, GeForce was a good tournament for him, but he never beat anyone the calibre of aLive in that event, and online events six months ago with the KR-AM server lag don't really mean much when we're talking about live events right now.
On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote:the only really positive thing i can find is that he is funny. Show nested quote +Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group yes i did, that's more a fact than a positive statement Your prediction was 0:3 so sorry that i don't buy that... i actually did, but it seems you did not read my post on page 1. I read your post on Page 1, but it was 100% opinion and no facts to back it up. In this post, I explained exactly why I think DarKFoRcE's NASL Bo3 win over aLive was his best result yet, you're entitled to disagree, of course, but you have never proved anything to be wrong or poorly researched. I can't go over the entire life story of every player, I pick and choose the results that I think are most important. Second, since when did a positive statement not count as something positive? And third, my prediction was what I wrote in the article, did you choose to ignore what was written at the end because you were mesmerized by the random numbers at the end? The numbers at the end are guesses about something that it's impossible to be precise for. I'd prefer you put more weight into the actual analysis.
On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote:Show nested quote +I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day. I just don't think its the right place to criticize a player. I don't mind if you post it somewhere else but not in the presentation of a player. But that's just my opinion maybe i am the only one who is bothered by that. the prediction is fine fore me. even so a lot of people might disagree thats your good right to say so. (But if you make such a ballsy prediction you should not be surprised if other people have a different opinion. even so here were quite some unfair flames about it tbh) EDIT: Beastyqt Illusion showmatch? i would have to bet on beasty so. :D
I have to be honest, it annoys me when people don't read anything and just look at the numbers and then say dumb things about it. You clearly read what I wrote, but other people don't. I recognize that you're a fan of DarKFoRcE, and that obviously you disagree with my assessment. That's just the way it is. But don't call me out for being factually incorrect, when I'm not being factually incorrect, and don't try to interpret obvious opinion as fact and then try to pin me to it. Please.
On February 09 2012 06:26 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote: illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches. Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms. What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20? I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you. If you don't actually believe in what you seemed to be arguing, than there's no point in making a bet on it. If you think I misunderstood what you mean by being annoyed by hype [and preferring an established player; i.e. DarKFoRcE is better than Illusion] than please state what you mean more clearly and we can discuss it.
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so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 09 2012 07:17 Timmeh_Anderson wrote: so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too? I can't do this anymore. T_T
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On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote: illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches. Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms. Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 01:37 OrbitalPlane wrote: Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...
What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him. If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?
Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group, that he was the second most likely to advance? Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day. Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 04:19 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.
Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).
I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it. Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2. I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well Beasty top three foreign terran?
Not sure what you mean with that last thing, I was saying hype from casters, predictions arent hyping someone
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On February 09 2012 07:10 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:26 mvtaylor wrote:On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote: illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.
I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches. Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms. What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20? I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you. If you don't actually believe in what you seemed to be arguing, than there's no point in making a bet on it. If you think I misunderstood what you mean by being annoyed by hype [and preferring an established player; i.e. DarKFoRcE is better than Illusion] than please state what you mean more clearly and we can discuss it.
Right, I would argue that looking at their previous form that Darkforce is a better track player right now, illusion has had four notable achievements... Qualifying for this event with a 3-0 over demu in the process, Beating Lucky and Choya in online bo1s cross server, Coming "second" at ONOG and finishing 24th at MLG Providence.
However this was his first ever LAN tournament not in the US and as I said he can't be comfortable about it if in the interview with Bitter he says he doesn't tell people what he's doing when he competes in LANs. You could see he was nervous, in the final game he played against KiLLeR he just let his marines stand there while banelings rolled in to them in the middle of the map off creep then forgot to gg, for someone who has shown great micro and marine splitting that sort of shows he wasn't 100%. Darkforce on the other hand doesn't have these nerve issues, he played as well as he usually does at LANs and that's pretty okay considering he can beat MKP in Korea, get to the ro8 at NASL1 etc.
Now, illusion does have more POTENTIAL than darkforce. He's far younger, hasn't even played Terran until season 2 of ladder etc but he doesn't have a track record or much lan experience, zero foreign lan experience before this.
So, once he's got a bit more of that, overcome some nerves and such then I think he will be able to pull out better results than darkforce, but it takes a pretty special sort of person that can do that at their first foreign lan based off of four "achievements". Hype is good at getting players noticed and showing who are ones to look out for but you need to keep things in perspective for a 15 year old kid going to his first foreign event.
In six months, darkforce will probably be in the same sort of place he is now but the future looks far brighter for illusion.
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On February 09 2012 07:17 Timmeh_Anderson wrote: so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too? It's not.
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On February 08 2012 15:18 devPLEASE wrote: When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile?
wrong illusion
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On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.
Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).
I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.
I know illusion for pretty much a year now - he used to play zerg in season 1/2 so his tvz always has been a strong part, because his micro is pretty darn good - he doesnt like tanks, he feels to immobile with them and prefers to not use them, or well he just doesn't make them early on. thats why he rather gets some helions and marines and micro's the hell out off it. he aswell has been baneling busted alot and practiced alot against it, he holds alot of baneling busts pretty well. unless he fails to read them, wich he hardly does because he is quite the aggressor. i do completely agree on you tho, he has alot of things to work on. but, he is working on it - and the hype around him is aswell something thats just happening. he is young, played good online in IPL, beated demuslim 3-0 to qualify for this IEM. enough reason to hype him. sadly he lost both his tvz's 2-1. but, funny enough if he managed to win those, and advance everybody would praise him - sadly enough thats how the world is.
Just indeed, look for him in about 12 months.
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